A couple of small questions regarding loft ladders. I need to install
one as the only access I have today to my loft is via a small hatch and
ladders put on top of our granite kitchen worktop, hardly safe nor
something that pleases the wife...

The choice seems to be very much folding wood vs. sliding aluminium
ladders. The folding ones (like most wood ladders) don't need any
vertical or horizontal clearance which is great from a loft storage etc.
point of view, while the sliding type (like most aluminium ladders) need
70-100cm vertical and ~150cm horizontal clearance in the loft. That
space is not an issue for me, so I am free choose whatever suits my
personal likings best.

What bothers me about the wooden ones is the weight: we appear to be
talking 30kg for a wooden ladder vs. 15kg for a comparable aluminium
one. I presume this also translate into an equivalent ease (or not) when
it comes to raise/lower the ladder as well, although all are spring
counterbalanced that only would help to close the hatch, not to actually
lift the first half or two thirds off the ground and slide it up or fold
it together. So from the ability of the average person to lower/raise
the ladders, how much of an issue is this?

When it comes to sturdiness ("wobble")I suspect wood will have the edge,
is that correct?

And what are folks' opinion about the steel or aluminium concertina
ladders, particularly regarding sturdiness and ease or use?

Thanks in advance!!!

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:57:28 +0000 (UTC), cs
wrote:

|A couple of small questions regarding loft ladders. I need to install
|one as the only access I have today to my loft is via a small hatch and
|ladders put on top of our granite kitchen worktop, hardly safe nor
|something that pleases the wife...
|
|The choice seems to be very much folding wood vs. sliding aluminium
|ladders. The folding ones (like most wood ladders) don't need any
|vertical or horizontal clearance which is great from a loft storage etc.
|point of view, while the sliding type (like most aluminium ladders) need
|70-100cm vertical and ~150cm horizontal clearance in the loft. That
|space is not an issue for me, so I am free choose whatever suits my
|personal likings best.
|
|What bothers me about the wooden ones is the weight: we appear to be
|talking 30kg for a wooden ladder vs. 15kg for a comparable aluminium
|one. I presume this also translate into an equivalent ease (or not) when
|it comes to raise/lower the ladder as well, although all are spring
|counterbalanced that only would help to close the hatch, not to actually
|lift the first half or two thirds off the ground and slide it up or fold
|it together. So from the ability of the average person to lower/raise
|the ladders, how much of an issue is this?
|
|When it comes to sturdiness ("wobble")I suspect wood will have the edge,
|is that correct?
|
|And what are folks' opinion about the steel or aluminium concertina
|ladders, particularly regarding sturdiness and ease or use?

I installed Aluminium, and it is quite heavy enough thank you, the women in
the family find it heavier than me. They would have difficulty with
wood. It does not wobble significantly.

Installing it needed careful planning, I have only an inch or two spare all
the way round.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
17,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.net
For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/

"cs" wrote in message
...
A couple of small questions regarding loft ladders. I need to install one
as the only access I have today to my loft is via a small hatch and ladders
put on top of our granite kitchen worktop, hardly safe nor something that
pleases the wife...

The choice seems to be very much folding wood vs. sliding aluminium
ladders. The folding ones (like most wood ladders) don't need any vertical
or horizontal clearance which is great from a loft storage etc. point of
view, while the sliding type (like most aluminium ladders) need 70-100cm
vertical and ~150cm horizontal clearance in the loft. That space is not an
issue for me, so I am free choose whatever suits my personal likings best.

What bothers me about the wooden ones is the weight: we appear to be
talking 30kg for a wooden ladder vs. 15kg for a comparable aluminium one.
I presume this also translate into an equivalent ease (or not) when it
comes to raise/lower the ladder as well, although all are spring
counterbalanced that only would help to close the hatch, not to actually
lift the first half or two thirds off the ground and slide it up or fold
it together. So from the ability of the average person to lower/raise the
ladders, how much of an issue is this?

When it comes to sturdiness ("wobble")I suspect wood will have the edge,
is that correct?

And what are folks' opinion about the steel or aluminium concertina
ladders, particularly regarding sturdiness and ease or use?

Thanks in advance!!!

In my experience wood is heavy and aluminium is noisy. I'm always surprised
at the strength and stability of our two-part aluminium one and am not sorry
that we bought it to replace the wooden one, which I found clumsy and heavy.

But that was more than twenty years ago, things might have changed. Ours
still supports me while I'm carrying heavy weights, which is quite a
challenge!

Mary

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...


In my experience wood is heavy and aluminium is noisy. I'm always
surprised at the strength and stability of our two-part aluminium one and
am not sorry that we bought it to replace the wooden one, which I found
clumsy and heavy.

But that was more than twenty years ago, things might have changed. Ours
still supports me while I'm carrying heavy weights, which is quite a
challenge!

I forgot to say that the aluminium one is manageable by five year olds.
Well, it was by two of our grandsons once they'd worked out that you didn't
need to say a magic word to release it but that there was a little catch on
the side which locked the two parts into position ... they were the first
grandchildren to discover that and are now twenty one years old. When they
were small they couldn't reach the rod which pulled it down and pushed it
up - and closed the hatch door - so there was no danger of illicit use.

Mary

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 20:57:28 +0000 (UTC), cs
wrote:

A couple of small questions regarding loft ladders. I need to install
one as the only access I have today to my loft is via a small hatch and
ladders put on top of our granite kitchen worktop, hardly safe nor
something that pleases the wife...

The choice seems to be very much folding wood vs. sliding aluminium
ladders. The folding ones (like most wood ladders) don't need any
vertical or horizontal clearance which is great from a loft storage etc.
point of view, while the sliding type (like most aluminium ladders) need
70-100cm vertical and ~150cm horizontal clearance in the loft. That
space is not an issue for me, so I am free choose whatever suits my
personal likings best.

What bothers me about the wooden ones is the weight: we appear to be
talking 30kg for a wooden ladder vs. 15kg for a comparable aluminium
one. I presume this also translate into an equivalent ease (or not) when
it comes to raise/lower the ladder as well, although all are spring
counterbalanced that only would help to close the hatch, not to actually
lift the first half or two thirds off the ground and slide it up or fold
it together. So from the ability of the average person to lower/raise
the ladders, how much of an issue is this?

When it comes to sturdiness ("wobble")I suspect wood will have the edge,
is that correct?

And what are folks' opinion about the steel or aluminium concertina
ladders, particularly regarding sturdiness and ease or use?

Thanks in advance!!!


I've had both the aluminium and the folding wooden ones.

I tend to access the loft fairly regularly for storage purposes and to
access servers etc. which live there.

Frankly, the aluminium ones are rubbish if you need to access the loft
regularly. A lot of space is wasted, they are wobbly and the narrow
treads hurt the feet.

In these respects, the wooden ones are far superior.


On the wooden ones, the springs are intended to pretty much
counterbalance the weight of the folded three sections and the hatch
lid. Basically, when you release the catch, this lot will drop about
25cm and that's it. You can very easily take the weight to let it
drop that distance gently, but even if you don't, nothing bad happens.

You then pull the whole thing gently down to the hatch open position
against the springs. The lower two sections weigh, at a guess, 8kg
or so and those are the only pieces where you have to take the weight,
although even part of that is on the hinges.

In short, I don't see sprung wooden loft ladders as having weight
problems.


One thing that I did do to protect the floor (we have oak flooring on
the landing) was to attach a piece of wood to the bottom of the ladder
-i.e. like an extra tread right on the bottom. I glued a piece of
rubber industrial flooring material to this. That way, the load is
spread and the surface is protected. I tried a piece of carpet
originally but this slid around. Certainly if you are resting the
ladder onto a granite worktop I would recommend something similar to
a) prevent sliding and b) protect the worktop.


Before buying, check the height. Is the room high to begin with?
Otherwise, if it's the standard 2.X metres and you are starting at
worktop level, a three section ladder might not work. Height is
adjusted by cutting off a piece of the bottom section. You could cut
off almost all of it, I suppose, but best to check before buying.








--

..andy

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...


I've had both the aluminium and the folding wooden ones.

I tend to access the loft fairly regularly for storage purposes and to
access servers etc. which live there.

We go up most days and have no problems at all with the ally one.

Frankly, the aluminium ones are rubbish if you need to access the loft
regularly. A lot of space is wasted, they are wobbly and the narrow
treads hurt the feet.

Oh come on! I go up in bare feet as often as not and it doesn't hurt. I've
even been going up and down with my recently butchered feet and clumsy
'surgical boot', again with no problems.

In these respects, the wooden ones are far superior.

I think you're a sensitive plant :-)

Mary

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 21:34:28 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Andy Hall" wrote in message
.. .


I've had both the aluminium and the folding wooden ones.

I tend to access the loft fairly regularly for storage purposes and to
access servers etc. which live there.

We go up most days and have no problems at all with the ally one.

Frankly, the aluminium ones are rubbish if you need to access the loft
regularly. A lot of space is wasted, they are wobbly and the narrow
treads hurt the feet.

Oh come on! I go up in bare feet as often as not and it doesn't hurt. I've
even been going up and down with my recently butchered feet and clumsy
'surgical boot', again with no problems.

Are these like clogs? :-)



In these respects, the wooden ones are far superior.

I think you're a sensitive plant :-)

Mary


--

..andy

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...

....

... I go up in bare feet as often as not and it doesn't hurt. I've
even been going up and down with my recently butchered feet and clumsy
'surgical boot', again with no problems.

Are these like clogs? :-)

There's only one, which makes me uneven. I should have said 'foot', not
'feet'. I'm surprised you didn't correct me- or perhaps your reply was a
subtle correction?

It's made in France so must be elegant :-)

It's closed by velcro straps which had to be cut so I wouldn't trip - it
must fit any size of dressing. Mine's big enough! Gets me into training for
when I'm even older and can't do buckles and laces!

But it's so wide! Do you remember Darling Clementine for whom herring boxes
without topses sandals made?

Mary

"Owain" wrote in message
...
cs wrote:
A couple of small questions regarding loft ladders. I need to install one
as the only access I have today to my loft is via a small hatch and
ladders put on top of our granite kitchen worktop, hardly safe nor
something that pleases the wife...

Before you spend loadsamoney on a loft ladder you might consider whether
it would be possible to make more sense to make a larger hatch elsewhere.

Ever the lateral thinker :-)

Mary

Owain

cs wrote:

When it comes to sturdiness ("wobble")I suspect wood will have the
edge, is that correct?

My (three section) aluminium loft ladder is rock solid. It's made from
extruded section, the shape of which makes it rigid. Even when I climb it,
and I'm an official FB!

Dave

On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 23:10:52 GMT, "david lang"
wrote:

cs wrote:

When it comes to sturdiness ("wobble")I suspect wood will have the
edge, is that correct?

My (three section) aluminium loft ladder is rock solid. It's made from
extruded section, the shape of which makes it rigid. Even when I climb it,
and I'm an official FB!

Dave


Friendly Bear?


--

..andy

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
Frankly, the aluminium ones are rubbish if you need to access the loft
regularly. A lot of space is wasted, they are wobbly and the narrow
treads hurt the feet.

In these respects, the wooden ones are far superior.

I think to balance this discussion - how much are people spend on said
ladders? I'm sure the expensive versions of either are quite good. I'm
thinking of doing it myself as it's a pain in the ass getting a step ladder
each time. Also, since carpeting the landing, I nearly fell off last time
when the step ladder went flying as I transferred my weight off the top
step.

I've seen a local offer for a metal one for under £100 including fitting.
Strikes me as alarmingly cheap considering what most "workmen" charge by the
hour these days!




a

cs wrote:
A couple of small questions regarding loft ladders. I need to install
one as the only access I have today to my loft is via a small hatch and
ladders put on top of our granite kitchen worktop, hardly safe nor
something that pleases the wife...

The choice seems to be very much folding wood vs. sliding aluminium
ladders. The folding ones (like most wood ladders) don't need any
vertical or horizontal clearance which is great from a loft storage etc.
point of view, while the sliding type (like most aluminium ladders) need
70-100cm vertical and ~150cm horizontal clearance in the loft. That
space is not an issue for me, so I am free choose whatever suits my
personal likings best.

What bothers me about the wooden ones is the weight: we appear to be
talking 30kg for a wooden ladder vs. 15kg for a comparable aluminium
one. I presume this also translate into an equivalent ease (or not) when
it comes to raise/lower the ladder as well, although all are spring
counterbalanced that only would help to close the hatch, not to actually
lift the first half or two thirds off the ground and slide it up or fold
it together. So from the ability of the average person to lower/raise
the ladders, how much of an issue is this?

When it comes to sturdiness ("wobble")I suspect wood will have the edge,
is that correct?

And what are folks' opinion about the steel or aluminium concertina
ladders, particularly regarding sturdiness and ease or use?

Thanks in advance!!!


Wood is a lot more versatile than ali, in that you can design or alter
it any which way you want to get everything to fit even the most
awkward space. This is not true at all of ali.

Wood is heavier, and I'll admit I havent weighed my wood ladder, but
I'd be pretty surprised if it was anywhere near 30kg. (Its a
multipurpose one, not a fitted loftie.)

As materials, ali is expensive, wood cheap, so you're likely to see a
lot more flimsy alis on the market than flimsy woods.

Wood is rather more pleasant to use imho, but its no biggie.

If I put another loft ladder in I'll use wod and make my own. Very easy
and quick, very solid, mind bogglingly inexpensive (like £10), and
endlessly permutable.


I would seriously not put a ladder on granite worktop, not even once.
You're lucky it hasnt shattered.


NT

Andy Hall wrote:

Friendly Bear?

Although I could be described as such, I'm sure you know the acronym :-)

If not its an anagram of ABAFT DARTS


Dave

Owain wrote:
cs wrote:

A couple of small questions regarding loft ladders. I need to install
one as the only access I have today to my loft is via a small hatch
and ladders put on top of our granite kitchen worktop, hardly safe nor
something that pleases the wife...


Before you spend loadsamoney on a loft ladder you might consider whether
it would be possible to make more sense to make a larger hatch elsewhere.

Owain


....and then install a loft ladder in that hatch.


Ok, I'm living in a shoe-box new-build home, with buggerall storage, so
the loft space appealed to me for storing empty boxes and whatnot*

Bought a cheap set of alu ladders - something around the £30-40 mark, I
think (around 6 years ago, now) and installed these into the hatch.
Hatch had to be modified, of course, to remove the lip that supported
the hatch lid and to replace with a loft hatch that was hinged, new
surround around that, paint and make-good. All in all, a good afternoons
work.

Now, I'm 6ft (give or take) and weigh in at a portly 15 stone (give or
take!) and the ladders cope admirabley with me carting stuff in and out
of the attic at regular (see size of house) intervals.

I can heartily recommend a set of loft ladders... and I have no
complaint about the el-cheapo Alu set that I bought (from Wickes, if
memory serves me correctly)




* whatnot = Old oscilloscopes, books, computer bits, airbed, sewing
machine, spare set of step-ladders, luggage...

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 22 Jan 2006 23:10:52 GMT, "david lang"
wrote:

cs wrote:

When it comes to sturdiness ("wobble")I suspect wood will have the
edge, is that correct?

My (three section) aluminium loft ladder is rock solid. It's made from
extruded section, the shape of which makes it rigid. Even when I climb
it,
and I'm an official FB!

Dave


Friendly Bear?

Think Alexi Sayle ...


--

.andy

"al" wrote in message
.. .
"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
Frankly, the aluminium ones are rubbish if you need to access the loft
regularly. A lot of space is wasted, they are wobbly and the narrow
treads hurt the feet.

In these respects, the wooden ones are far superior.

I think to balance this discussion - how much are people spend on said
ladders? I'm sure the expensive versions of either are quite good. I'm
thinking of doing it myself as it's a pain in the ass getting a step
ladder each time. Also, since carpeting the landing, I nearly fell off
last time when the step ladder went flying as I transferred my weight off
the top step.

I've seen a local offer for a metal one for under £100 including fitting.
Strikes me as alarmingly cheap considering what most "workmen" charge by
the hour these days!

We bought ours, many years ago, from a shed, it was cheap and very easy to
fit. Why do you need someone to install it? I think eight screws were needed
to fit two hinges - which haven't let us down.

Mary




a

"Mike Dodd" wrote in message
...
Owain wrote:
cs wrote:

A couple of small questions regarding loft ladders. I need to install
one as the only access I have today to my loft is via a small hatch and
ladders put on top of our granite kitchen worktop, hardly safe nor
something that pleases the wife...


Before you spend loadsamoney on a loft ladder you might consider whether
it would be possible to make more sense to make a larger hatch elsewhere.

Owain


...and then install a loft ladder in that hatch.


Ok, I'm living in a shoe-box new-build home, with buggerall storage, so
the loft space appealed to me for storing empty boxes and whatnot*

I can understand the what not but why empty boxes??? Our whatnots include a
dolls house, stores of leather and fabric, tents and camping equipment, some
weird historical equipment (used sometimes), spinning wheel, slabs of
beeswax, honey jars, moulds, ceramics and other things made by student
children in the past which they'll eventually want (I hope), ... and
probably all the things we can never find until we think of looking in the
loft ...

And the new plumbing and a futon ... sigh

Bought a cheap set of alu ladders - something around the £30-40 mark, I
think (around 6 years ago, now) and installed these into the hatch. Hatch
had to be modified, of course, to remove the lip that supported the hatch
lid and to replace with a loft hatch that was hinged, new surround around
that, paint and make-good. All in all, a good afternoons work.

I'd forgotten about the hatch modification. We had to enlarge ours to allow
some of the large items through.

Now, I'm 6ft (give or take) and weigh in at a portly 15 stone (give or
take!) and the ladders cope admirabley with me carting stuff in and out of
the attic at regular (see size of house) intervals.

I can heartily recommend a set of loft ladders... and I have no complaint
about the el-cheapo Alu set that I bought (from Wickes, if memory serves
me correctly)

Sound advice.

Mary

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 12:49:20 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:

|
|"al" wrote in message
. ..
| "Andy Hall" wrote in message
| ...
| Frankly, the aluminium ones are rubbish if you need to access the loft
| regularly. A lot of space is wasted, they are wobbly and the narrow
| treads hurt the feet.
|
| In these respects, the wooden ones are far superior.
|
| I think to balance this discussion - how much are people spend on said
| ladders? I'm sure the expensive versions of either are quite good. I'm
| thinking of doing it myself as it's a pain in the ass getting a step
| ladder each time. Also, since carpeting the landing, I nearly fell off
| last time when the step ladder went flying as I transferred my weight off
| the top step.
|
| I've seen a local offer for a metal one for under £100 including fitting.
| Strikes me as alarmingly cheap considering what most "workmen" charge by
| the hour these days!
|
|We bought ours, many years ago, from a shed, it was cheap and very easy to
|fit. Why do you need someone to install it? I think eight screws were needed
|to fit two hinges - which haven't let us down.

I had to cut a joist, which needed strengthening also construct and insert
new trap door, so not as easy, but not difficult.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
17,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.net
For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/

The main reason I wanted a wooden loft ladder was they are more pleasant to
handle after they have been in an unheated loft on a cold winters night.

Henry

On Mon, 23 Jan 2006 12:56:07 -0000, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


| Ok, I'm living in a shoe-box new-build home, with buggerall storage, so
| the loft space appealed to me for storing empty boxes and whatnot*
|
|I can understand the what not but why empty boxes???

June is an Avon Lady so we get several boxes every three weeks. They have
been the same size for mumble years, both stackable, and the right
size/weight for a woman or OAP to handle. People in the know ask for
them, so few are thrown away without re-use at least once.

|Our whatnots include a
|dolls house, stores of leather and fabric, tents and camping equipment, some
|weird historical equipment (used sometimes), spinning wheel, slabs of
|beeswax, honey jars, moulds, ceramics and other things made by student
|children in the past which they'll eventually want (I hope), ... and
|probably all the things we can never find until we think of looking in the
|loft ...

Yes well our loft is full, of junk in Avon Boxes, as well :-(
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk
17,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.net
For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...
I've seen a local offer for a metal one for under £100 including fitting.
Strikes me as alarmingly cheap considering what most "workmen" charge by
the hour these days!

We bought ours, many years ago, from a shed, it was cheap and very easy to
fit. Why do you need someone to install it? I think eight screws were
needed to fit two hinges - which haven't let us down.

I'd imagine the hatch opening will need to be enlarged as it's quite small
and square at the moment. One of those jobs in the "can't quite be arsed"
category below the many others! I suppose it wouldn't really be brain
surgery, but I've never really looked into expanding the hole and I don't
have that many fine woodworking tools to cut the joints for a new surround,
etc.

I've got a week coming up soon with the wife & infant away ... plan to strip
& redecorate the kitchen & bathroom. Think that's ambitious enough for now!
Garage also needs clearing, painting and "sorting" plus the loft could do
with stripping & re-insulating plus some flooring in patches. So yeah, a
loft ladder would be nice ...




a

"al" wrote in message
.. .
"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
t...
I've seen a local offer for a metal one for under £100 including
fitting. Strikes me as alarmingly cheap considering what most "workmen"
charge by the hour these days!

We bought ours, many years ago, from a shed, it was cheap and very easy
to fit. Why do you need someone to install it? I think eight screws were
needed to fit two hinges - which haven't let us down.

I'd imagine the hatch opening will need to be enlarged as it's quite small
and square at the moment. One of those jobs in the "can't quite be arsed"
category below the many others! I suppose it wouldn't really be brain
surgery, but I've never really looked into expanding the hole and I don't
have that many fine woodworking tools to cut the joints for a new
surround, etc.

I've got a week coming up soon with the wife & infant away ... plan to
strip & redecorate the kitchen & bathroom. Think that's ambitious enough
for now! Garage also needs clearing, painting and "sorting" plus the loft
could do with stripping & re-insulating plus some flooring in patches. So
yeah, a loft ladder would be nice ...

You're not going to get all that done propoerly in a week, especially
without someone to see to your bodily comforts.

Mary




a

"Henry" wrote in message
...

The main reason I wanted a wooden loft ladder was they are more pleasant
to handle after they have been in an unheated loft on a cold winters
night.

You can buy a pair of very cheap slippers.

Mary

Henry