My bungalow has an old fashioned telephone system consisting of a BT
cable connected to a grey box (about 70x40mm tapered with a single
screw fixing). From here there is a wire to another identical-looking
box - only two core of the wire are connected). From this second box
there are two wires going to BT/RJ-11 sockets (65mm square surface
mounted bearing the old 'T' BT logo) - there are six wires connected in
at least one of these - there are three boxes and the interbox wiring
is not easy to trace in the loft. I have ADSL filters on all the used
sockets, of course.

Now I'm about to modernise everything, and it's a convenient time to
replace this wiring.

1) Can I install a modern Master Box directly from the first grey box?
Or do I have to pay BT to do this? (I'm aware that there is moderate
voltage (-48V ?) on the wires!)

2) Can I then wire new extensions from the master to ADSL-filtered
wall sockets throughout? I'll want 5-6 sockets, although I don't
foresee that many instruments - probably: Sky-box, ADSL modem,
Speaker-Phone and DECT-basestation (REN 4).

Pointers to FAQs/HowTos would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

R.

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 13:34:44 +0000, Richard A Downing wrote:

Can I install a modern Master Box

You can, but you may not.

--
Nigel M

Richard A Downing wrote:
My bungalow has an old fashioned telephone system consisting of a BT
cable connected to a grey box (about 70x40mm tapered with a single
screw fixing). From here there is a wire to another identical-looking
box - only two core of the wire are connected). From this second box
there are two wires going to BT/RJ-11 sockets (65mm square surface
mounted bearing the old 'T' BT logo) - there are six wires connected in
at least one of these - there are three boxes and the interbox wiring
is not easy to trace in the loft. I have ADSL filters on all the used
sockets, of course.

Now I'm about to modernise everything, and it's a convenient time to
replace this wiring.

1) Can I install a modern Master Box directly from the first grey box?

Technically and practically yes, 'legally' no.

Or do I have to pay BT to do this? (I'm aware that there is moderate
voltage (-48V ?) on the wires!)

Legally yes, and yes there's about 50 volts DC across the line (changes
to 75V 18Hz when ringing ISTR)


2) Can I then wire new extensions from the master to ADSL-filtered
wall sockets throughout? I'll want 5-6 sockets, although I don't
foresee that many instruments - probably: Sky-box, ADSL modem,
Speaker-Phone and DECT-basestation (REN 4).

Pointers to FAQs/HowTos would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

After whoever installs the master socket, you can (legally) replace the
lower half of it with an ADSL master filter unit. There are two
versions of this, both with connections for onward internal network
(filtered) but also a version that provides an additional unfiltered
feed for an ADSL connection away from the master socket location.

Have a surf around in this site:-
http://www.clarity.it/acatalog/telecoms.html

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Richard A Downing wrote:

My bungalow has an old fashioned telephone system consisting of a BT
cable connected to a grey box (about 70x40mm tapered with a single
screw fixing). From here there is a wire to another identical-looking
box - only two core of the wire are connected). From this second box
there are two wires going to BT/RJ-11 sockets (65mm square surface
mounted bearing the old 'T' BT logo) - there are six wires connected
in at least one of these - there are three boxes and the interbox
wiring is not easy to trace in the loft. I have ADSL filters on all
the used sockets, of course.

Now I'm about to modernise everything, and it's a convenient time to
replace this wiring.

1) Can I install a modern Master Box directly from the first grey box?
Or do I have to pay BT to do this? (I'm aware that there is moderate
voltage (-48V ?) on the wires!)

2) Can I then wire new extensions from the master to ADSL-filtered
wall sockets throughout? I'll want 5-6 sockets, although I don't
foresee that many instruments - probably: Sky-box, ADSL modem,
Speaker-Phone and DECT-basestation (REN 4).

Pointers to FAQs/HowTos would be helpful. Thanks in advance.

R.

For general information on wiring extensions, etc. see
http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk/WPP/Wi...telephone.html

As others have said, you ain't supposed to touch the wiring on the BT side
of the master socket - but many people do, and most don't end up in prison!

I would seriously suggest that you use a filtered faceplate in the master
socket - which separates the ADSL and voice signals at source, and does away
with the need for plug-in filters. If your ADSL modem/router/whatever needs
to be somewhere other than next to the master socket, use the modified
version of Clarity's filtered faceplate - which enables you to wire a
digital extension into the back, rather than having to plug into the front.
http://www.clarity.it/telecoms/adsl_faceplate_mod.htm

--
Cheers,
Set Square
______
Please reply to newsgroup. Reply address is invalid.

My bungalow has an old fashioned telephone system consisting of a BT
cable connected to a grey box (about 70x40mm tapered with a single
screw fixing). From here there is a wire to another identical-looking
box - only two core of the wire are connected). From this second box
there are two wires going to BT/RJ-11 sockets (65mm square surface
mounted bearing the old 'T' BT logo) - there are six wires connected in
at least one of these - there are three boxes and the interbox wiring
is not easy to trace in the loft. I have ADSL filters on all the used
sockets, of course.

Now I'm about to modernise everything, and it's a convenient time to
replace this wiring.

1) Can I install a modern Master Box directly from the first grey box?

No. BT have to do it. If there is a disabled person living in the house you
may be able to get it done free of charge. Details here

http://www.bt.com/customerservices/c...econv_phsocket


Or do I have to pay BT to do this? (I'm aware that there is moderate
voltage (-48V ?) on the wires!)

See above.

2) Can I then wire new extensions from the master to ADSL-filtered
wall sockets throughout? I'll want 5-6 sockets, although I don't
foresee that many instruments - probably: Sky-box, ADSL modem,
Speaker-Phone and DECT-basestation (REN 4).

The best way to do it is by wiring from a replacement front panel for the BT
box.

Lots of informaion at http://www.clarity.it/acatalog/telecoms.html

Peter Crosland

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 14:11:08 -0000
"Peter Crosland" wrote:

1) Can I install a modern Master Box directly from the first grey
box?

No. BT have to do it. If there is a disabled person living in the
house you may be able to get it done free of charge. Details here

http://www.bt.com/customerservices/c...econv_phsocket

Thanks for this, and for everyone else's consistent advice. Fortunately
none of us is disabled, so I shall have to pay BT 75 GBP to fit an NTE5
in a cupboard (I don't want the damn ugly gert thing visible - if only
there were a neat, i.e flush mounting, equivalent) so that I can manage
the rest myself.

R.

In article ,
Richard A Downing wrote:
1) Can I install a modern Master Box directly from the first grey box?
Or do I have to pay BT to do this? (I'm aware that there is moderate
voltage (-48V ?) on the wires!)

You're not supposed to but I've not heard of anyone being hung drawn and
quartered for it.

2) Can I then wire new extensions from the master to ADSL-filtered
wall sockets throughout? I'll want 5-6 sockets, although I don't
foresee that many instruments - probably: Sky-box, ADSL modem,
Speaker-Phone and DECT-basestation (REN 4).

Depending on where your router/modem is it can make sense to fit an ADSL
filtered master socket.

--
*Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 13:41:08 +0000, Nigel Molesworth
wrote:

Can I install a modern Master Box

You can, but you may not.

ime BT turn a blind eye so long as BT approved parts are used.

sponix

On 4 Jan 2006 05:50:23 -0800, Mark Carver wrote:

I have ADSL filters on all the used sockets, of course.

This is not "best practice". Far better to split the voice and ADSL
signals at the first opportunity and route separate cables for each as
required. The existing telephone extension wiring for phones, a new
cable for the unfiltered ADSL to your modem/router.

Legally yes, and yes there's about 50 volts DC across the line
(changes to 75V 18Hz when ringing ISTR)

From BT anything from 40v to 100v AC RMS at 25Hz (+1Hz -5Hz).

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 13:34:44 +0000, Richard A Downing
wrote:

My bungalow has an old fashioned telephone system consisting of a BT
cable connected to a grey box (about 70x40mm tapered with a single
screw fixing).

I'm puzzled as to your wiring, and how it got to be this way. What you
describe is typical of older wiring, but unusual for a line that has
been upgraded to ADSL.

What you should have is a square, white "New, new style" BT master
socket (NTE 5). This is the sort with a removable faceplate on a
socket, so that you're allowed (legitimately) to add your own extension
wiring to the fixed connectors on the faceplate. The backplate of the
box is still "BT only" and contains the incoming wires from the grey
oval box 53 and the "master socket" capacitor etc.

What you seem to have is an "old, new style" BT master socket, whether
installed by BT or not. I'm just surprised that this survived the ADSL
upgrade process without getting replaced - I thought BT policy was to
swap these when on-site for any ADSL commissioning.

I have ADSL filters on all the used
sockets, of course.

This is often a source of trouble, You're better off getting a proper
BT master faceplate with a single ADSL filter in it, then running
voice-only extensions downstream of that. Solwise will sell you one for
a tenner or so that plugs straight into an NTE 5
http://www.solwise.co.uk/adsl_splitters.htm
This is what BT usually install when they visit for an ADSL install, but
there are some routes (such as migration from ISDN/Home Highway) where
you don't get one supplied by BT.

Don't (IMHO) extend the data side of ADSL beyond the filter. If you have
to, leave your master socket whereever the phone cable enters the
building (but never plug directly into it)), put an ADSL filtered NTE 5
near the ADSL modem and run the voice extensions from that point
onwards.


What I think you should do now is to get a new NTE 5 fitted, together
with an ADSL filter built into it. You can either install this instead
of the existing master or install it downstream of the existing master
(Solwise etc. describe the process for this) - this would depend on its
location relative to your ADSL modem. Whether you do this yourself or
get BT to do it is up to you, BT charges, and whether you're still being
billed for an old system with chargeable extension bells etc. (which I
think they've stopped doing, but for many years it was cost effective to
pay the engineer's charge just to get these stopped so you could have
your own non-rented ones)


NB - Always use a real "Krone" tool. This can be either a proper metal
one, or a cheap plastic one-job one. But never use a screwdriver blade -
if your tool doesn't have a gap in the middle of its blade, then it
will distort the IDC tines and cause no end of future trouble. Equally
also only use solid core cable and avoid screw terminals.

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 13:34:44 +0000, Richard A Downing
wrote:

My bungalow has an old fashioned telephone system consisting of a BT
cable connected to a grey box (about 70x40mm tapered with a single
screw fixing).

I'm puzzled as to your wiring, and how it got to be this way. What you
describe is typical of older wiring, but unusual for a line that has
been upgraded to ADSL.

Not at all. BT make no changes at all to the consumer's installation
when they enable ADSL. They normally don't even leave the exchange.

What you should have is a square, white "New, new style" BT master
socket (NTE 5). This is the sort with a removable faceplate on a
socket, so that you're allowed (legitimately) to add your own extension
wiring to the fixed connectors on the faceplate. The backplate of the
box is still "BT only" and contains the incoming wires from the grey
oval box 53 and the "master socket" capacitor etc.

Only if BT have visited for any reason since 1984, otherwise (as the OP
has) you will probably have an old GPO hard wired set up.

What you seem to have is an "old, new style" BT master socket, whether
installed by BT or not. I'm just surprised that this survived the ADSL
upgrade process without getting replaced - I thought BT policy was to
swap these when on-site for any ADSL commissioning.

They don't visit normally, see above.

I have ADSL filters on all the used
sockets, of course.

This is often a source of trouble, You're better off getting a proper
BT master faceplate with a single ADSL filter in it, then running
voice-only extensions downstream of that. Solwise will sell you one for
a tenner or so that plugs straight into an NTE 5
http://www.solwise.co.uk/adsl_splitters.htm
This is what BT usually install when they visit for an ADSL install, but
there are some routes (such as migration from ISDN/Home Highway) where
you don't get one supplied by BT.

Don't (IMHO) extend the data side of ADSL beyond the filter. If you have
to, leave your master socket whereever the phone cable enters the
building (but never plug directly into it)), put an ADSL filtered NTE 5
near the ADSL modem and run the voice extensions from that point
onwards.

As long as you use BT spec twisted pair cable (as used for normal
phones) you can extend the ADSL feed to anywhere in the house using the
Clarity dual output faceplate. Ensure of course you use a twisted pair
within the cable blue/white: white/blue etc

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 14:38:23 +0000,it is alleged that Richard A Downing
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:
[snip]
Thanks for this, and for everyone else's consistent advice. Fortunately
none of us is disabled, so I shall have to pay BT 75 GBP to fit an NTE5
in a cupboard (I don't want the damn ugly gert thing visible - if only
there were a neat, i.e flush mounting, equivalent) so that I can manage
the rest myself.

R.

If you want an NTE5 flush mounted, BT will install in a pre-existing
flushmount box (either the plasterboard fixing or standard metal
fixing ones) provided they have some method to get the cables in
there.

The fixings are the same as any standard single gang electrical
accessory.

--
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build
bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce
bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." - Rich Cook.

On 4 Jan 2006 08:03:58 -0800, "Mark Carver"
wrote:

I'm puzzled as to your wiring, and how it got to be this way. What you
describe is typical of older wiring, but unusual for a line that has
been upgraded to ADSL.

Not at all. BT make no changes at all to the consumer's installation
when they enable ADSL. They normally don't even leave the exchange.

BT _may_ visit if they're installing ADSL, and they'll leave you with a
nice NTE5 and ADSL faceplate, which is a tidier job than plug-in
filters. I agree that they don't always visit (probably rarely), but
I'd thought that if records showed the premises to still be wired
without sockets then it would trigger this. My own ADSL install
involved 3 visits by two different engineers , and that was hardly early
days.

As to ADSL wiring beyond the filter then this is possible, but it will
involve extra plug-in connectors in the ADSL path. I've had to much
trouble with these in the past and I'd rather do it by hard wiring as
much as possible.

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
I'm puzzled as to your wiring, and how it got to be this way. What you
describe is typical of older wiring, but unusual for a line that has
been upgraded to ADSL.

IIRC, they don't touch the line. And certainly don't visit the premises -
unless BT are supplying the entire service which I wouldn't know about.

--
*Virtual reality is its own reward*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Richard A Downing wrote:
Thanks for this, and for everyone else's consistent advice. Fortunately
none of us is disabled, so I shall have to pay BT 75 GBP to fit an NTE5
in a cupboard (I don't want the damn ugly gert thing visible - if only
there were a neat, i.e flush mounting, equivalent) so that I can manage
the rest myself.

Plenty of flush mounting ones available. But you can't expect BT to make a
neat job of anything. Architrave and skirting board wreckers as a
decorator mate once called them...

--
*I love cats...they taste just like chicken.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 15:37:09 +0000
Andy Dingley wrote:

On Wed, 4 Jan 2006 13:34:44 +0000, Richard A Downing
wrote:

My bungalow has an old fashioned telephone system consisting of a BT
cable connected to a grey box (about 70x40mm tapered with a single
screw fixing).

I'm puzzled as to your wiring, and how it got to be this way. What you
describe is typical of older wiring, but unusual for a line that has
been upgraded to ADSL.

snip

The wiring was like this when I bought the house last July. How it got
to be I don't know.

I ordered ADSL from a non-BT biller and BT did not visit, it just
'turned on' on the day specified and has worked well since. I don't
have any problems with it at all.

I suspect your comment of puzzlement reflects BT's early roll out of
ADSL, and not the later, lower cost, approach.

R.

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
BT _may_ visit if they're installing ADSL, and they'll leave you with a
nice NTE5 and ADSL faceplate, which is a tidier job than plug-in
filters. I agree that they don't always visit (probably rarely), but
I'd thought that if records showed the premises to still be wired
without sockets then it would trigger this.

I converted my place from a single hard wired phone when I moved in some
30 years ago. First to a couple of extra phones and then to the plug in
system. Not had a BT 'inside' engineer ever - although they replaced the
outside wiring after an incident with a mobile crane.;-)

--
*Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Richard A Downing wrote:
On Wed, 04 Jan 2006 15:37:09 +0000
Andy Dingley wrote:

snip.....

The wiring was like this when I bought the house last July. How it got
to be I don't know.

I ordered ADSL from a non-BT biller and BT did not visit, it just
'turned on' on the day specified and has worked well since. I don't
have any problems with it at all.

I suspect your comment of puzzlement reflects BT's early roll out of
ADSL, and not the later, lower cost, approach.

a. if you have more than 1 microfilter connected, then they are
effectively in parallel across your incoming line & performance
degrades ever more as you pile more on, hence strong recommendation to
sort this out so you only have 1 main filter at source & have separate
wiring for ADSl & voice (as others recommend).

b. some years ago I hit the jackpot when our old style BT terminal at
house entry got rusty & as to whether you got a dial tone or not
picking up the handset became unreliable.

A call to 151 generated a visit from BT & bingo! a completely new free
terminal box (this was when plug in sockets were a new phenomenon).

Could your incoming terminal get rusty somehow ;-) ,,, broken wire
.......??

More recently within the last month I've installed an ADSl set up in
another house where there was trouble with an out of date BT rfi
filter. Again a visit from BT sorted out the filter AND provided a
proper up-to-date split ADSL/voice faceplate - all free. Latter visit
was more difficult to organize as it had to be done via the ISP who
were most reluctant to call out BT Wholesale.

Hence your best bet might be to organize a BT (Retail- ie call 151)
visit to clear a voice fault due to rusty connections (assuming you pay
line rental to BT) & with luck you'll get both jobs done.

HTH

Andy Dingley wrote:
On 4 Jan 2006 08:03:58 -0800, "Mark Carver"
wrote:

I'm puzzled as to your wiring, and how it got to be this way. What you
describe is typical of older wiring, but unusual for a line that has
been upgraded to ADSL.

Not at all. BT make no changes at all to the consumer's installation
when they enable ADSL. They normally don't even leave the exchange.

BT _may_ visit if they're installing ADSL, and they'll leave you with a
nice NTE5 and ADSL faceplate, which is a tidier job than plug-in
filters. I agree that they don't always visit (probably rarely), but
I'd thought that if records showed the premises to still be wired
without sockets then it would trigger this. My own ADSL install
involved 3 visits by two different engineers , and that was hardly early
days.

I' d still say it's rare. Certainly not seen many examples of your
experience in uk.telecom.broadband, but YMDV :-)


As to ADSL wiring beyond the filter then this is possible, but it will
involve extra plug-in connectors in the ADSL path. I've had to much
trouble with these in the past and I'd rather do it by hard wiring as
much as possible.

Which you can do now with the Clarity master filter which has Krone
terminals for both filtered and unfiltered feeds. Of course the
unfiltered ADSL feed is just that, it's the twisted pair from the
'outside world' presented to the terminals and nothing more. Where
people run into trouble is having non twisted wiring (predominately
plug in telephone extension leads from DIY sheds) feeding their ADSL
modems. This can seriously degrade the SNR (particularly if the cables
run near or alongside mains wiring) [1] and in turn lead to reduced
performance. Providing you extend your internal network using telecom
grade twisted pair cable there should be no drop in performance. After
all think of all the Krone blocks and damp green boxes your line passes
through before reaching your home, another 10, 20, or even 50 metres
and and couple more clean and dry Krones will make no difference at
all.

[1] My ADSL router is 5 metres from my master socket filter. It's fed
by twisted pair BT cable. SNR reads 19 dB. If I replace that cable
with a B+Q extension lead SNR drops to 17dB. Connecting the router
directly at the master filter also gives 19dB.

(Downstream attenuation remains constant in all three conditions at
63.5 dB)

All IME, YMMV

Hi all
slightly OT... If I get BT to fit/connect a second domestic
telephone line, do they just run a connection (eg. using the extra
cable traces) to a new NTE5 box? And would they be likely/willing to
upgrade my current non-NTE5 master socket to an NTE5 whilst they are at
it?

Thanks
Jon N

On 5 Jan 2006 02:12:30 -0800, jkn wrote:

If I get BT to fit/connect a second domestic telephone line, do they
just run a connection (eg. using the extra cable traces) to a new
NTE5 box?

Yes. Assuming they can provide a pair all the way back to the
exchnage.

And would they be likely/willing to upgrade my current non-NTE5
master socket to an NTE5 whilst they are at it?

Be nice a friendly, offer tea/coffee/biscuits and the chances are
high, provided that he doesn't have to do much more than swap the old
termination for the new one. If you start wanting cables run all over
the place unlikely unless that is required for the new line. Of course
if CW1308 is already fitted and properly installed he may fit a NTE on
the end of it and make the connection to "your" cable for you.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Andy Dingley wrote:

avoid screw terminals.

Given that NTE5 has screw terminals on the line side, why avoid them?

On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 10:47:18 +0000, Andy Burns
wrote:

Andy Dingley wrote:

avoid screw terminals.

Given that NTE5 has screw terminals on the line side, why avoid them?

Those aren't screw terminals, they're screwed clamps. The wire is held
beneath a washer, forced down by a screw head.

The ones I'm advising against are the common DIY trick of mixing up
phone cabling (solid core, IDCs) with alarm cabling (stranded, bare
screw terminals)

On 5 Jan 2006 02:12:30 -0800, "jkn" wrote:

And would they be likely/willing to
upgrade my current non-NTE5 master socket to an NTE5 whilst they are at
it?

If you can get an engineer on site, and you're nice to them, then
they'll often do almost anything you ask - including "forgetting" a
couple of spare extension sockets.

It's years since I worked for BT, and I only ever worked on installs for
a brief period as a trainee sprog. This was back in the golden period of
a deregulated BT still with the ethics of the civil service. It was
drummed into us that it cost the GPO a fortune to have us driving around
all over the place and very little to actually be working on something
useful. So our goal at all times should be happy customers who didn't
phone up with new faults in the future - if that meant taking more time
to do something right, or recognising that some buckshee extension work
would inevitably be happening after we'd left and all concerned would be
better off if it were done competently, then all manner of blind eyes
were turned. Those days are gone, but there's stilll a basic attitude
that making the job "a good 'un" is the right thing to do.

Thanks guys, that's useful.

What's a CW1308?...

Cheers
Jon N

Andy Dingley wrote:

Those aren't screw terminals, they're screwed clamps. The wire is held
beneath a washer, forced down by a screw head.

yep, forgot that, I appreciate the difference ...

jkn wrote:
Thanks guys, that's useful.

What's a CW1308?...

BT spec twisted pair cable

http://www.homestead.co.uk/productca...ialoffer=False

On 5 Jan 2006 05:23:31 -0800 someone who may be "jkn"
wrote this:-

What's a CW1308?...

Some people really are too bone idle to find out anything for
themselves, or give a good impression of being so. Asking stupid
questions that can be easily answered simply discourages people from
answering other questions.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=CW1308 tells these lazy sods
all they need to know about this elementary piece of information.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

The message
from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words:

I converted my place from a single hard wired phone when I moved in some
30 years ago. First to a couple of extra phones and then to the plug in
system. Not had a BT 'inside' engineer ever - although they replaced the
outside wiring after an incident with a mobile crane.;-)

My original master socket plus an extension socket were fitted when I
signed up for Micronet back in the early 80s. Last year I reported a
fault which was eventually traced to a junction box a mile away but
while the BT engineers were at the house they changed the master socket
to a new one without asking and didn't so much as mention the fact that
I had obviously shifted the wiring in a manner that would have required
disconnection from the still existing oval junction box.

Incidentally I have had my outside line replaced twice. The first time
after a tree surgeon dropped a branch on it and the second after the
builders merchants lorry crane fouled it. It is now high enough to clear
the crane and my neighbour has since had the offending tree felled.

--
Roger Chapman

In article ,
Roger wrote:
Incidentally I have had my outside line replaced twice. The first time
after a tree surgeon dropped a branch on it and the second after the
builders merchants lorry crane fouled it. It is now high enough to clear
the crane and my neighbour has since had the offending tree felled.

It's strange. Mine is the only road round here with telephone poles and
overhead wiring - all the adjoining roads have underground stuff. I've
often wondered why.

--
*A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Hi David

David Hansen wrote:
On 5 Jan 2006 05:23:31 -0800 someone who may be "jkn"
wrote this:-

What's a CW1308?...

Some people really are too bone idle to find out anything for
themselves, or give a good impression of being so. Asking stupid
questions that can be easily answered simply discourages people from
answering other questions.

Thanks for your intemperate reply. In fact my 'throwaway' question was
mildly rhetorical, as if I were having a conversation with the previous
helpful posters, and as soon as I'd posted it I went and did the google
search you also suggest.

Don't necessarily take your first impressions so much to heart!

Cheers
Jon N