Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
UK diy (uk.d-i-y) For the discussion of all topics related to diy (do-it-yourself) in the UK. All levels of experience and proficency are welcome to join in to ask questions or offer solutions. |
Reply |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#41
|
|||
|
|||
Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article .com, wrote: I don't buy this. When I started using plastic pipes I used a hacksaw and trimmed of the pipe edge. You are Drivel and I claim my 5 pounds. Oh he is back.... While it is *possible* to use a hacksaw and trim to give a decent end on the workbench, it's near impossible in an awkward location, so just as with everything get the correct tool for the job. How do you know? Have you ever done it? Take to flying kites. You and wind go together. :-) -- *Go the extra mile. It makes your boss look like an incompetent slacker * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#42
|
|||
|
|||
David wrote: In article , Steve writes Steve wrote: As an occasional and always very hesitant diy plumber, I've always used traditional soldered or compression fittings in the past. I'm just about to fit an outside tap and my local B&Q has a very patchy stock of fittings. As a result I've bought a brass tap plus a selection of the= se new fangled push fit fittings (some copper, some plastic). I'm a bit wary of the push fit stuff - is there anything I should watch out for? What if it leaks on test, how do I tighten it up or get it apart again? TIA Steve Thanks for all the advice. I'm sorry if I inadvertently started a fight. Seems like there's more to this push fit stuff than I thought, I think I'll take it back and get some traditional compression and soldered fittings - I know what I'm doing with them. I would go with the plastic and get the =A35 cutter, its always useful to have it because you're bound to do some more. I fitted my first complete system with plastic about 6 yrs ago using a cheap cutter, no problems at all, I still have it and use it regularly (with new blades). Plastic is the quickest and simplest plumbing system you can fit. -- David And if on show will drop the price of your house, and at best make it difficult to sell. use copper where pipes are exposed. |
#43
|
|||
|
|||
In article . com,
wrote: A laser is no good as the wavelength has to be optimised They breed them on this group that is for certain. If you're not Drivel you speak the same peculiar 'English'. -- He who laughs last, thinks slowest. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#44
|
|||
|
|||
In article .com,
wrote: I don't buy this. When I started using plastic pipes I used a hacksaw and trimmed of the pipe edge. More Drivel spelling? You are Drivel and I claim my 5 pounds. Oh he is back.... ? While it is *possible* to use a hacksaw and trim to give a decent end on the workbench, it's near impossible in an awkward location, so just as with everything get the correct tool for the job. How do you know? Have you ever done it? I'm very careful about any pipe jointing in difficult locations. Avoids floods. Of course by the sound of it all your 'refurbishments' will include surface mounted plastic pipes - otherwise you'd have the correct tools? Take to flying kites. You and wind go together. :-) The more you post here, the more it's obvious you don't make a living by what you claim to. -- *Time is what keeps everything from happening at once. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#46
|
|||
|
|||
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On 27 Aug 2005 05:53:45 -0700, wrote: John Rumm wrote: wrote: To the OP. That is bunkum. No, it's not. It is bunkum. To the OP, just.... Ignore him. All the manufacturers explicitly say do *not* use a hacksaw. See my reply to Andy Hall. The biggest manufacturer, Hepworth appear confused on the point. Not really. The instructions are completely clear. Yes you *may* get successful joints using one with care, but on the occations that you don't you will have no one but yourself to blame. Well who else are you going to blame if you screw up a pipe end? Take care and a perfect pipe end can be achieved as Hepworth stated "using a variety of tools". They said that the inventive may do that. They didn't say that they thought it was a good idea. So why make life difficult for yourself, when even the cheapie Screwfix vinyl pipe cutter will do the job for under a fiver? A waste of time and a liability from bitter experience. Either use a top quality plastic pipe cutter, or a hacksaw, stanley knife and fine file to trim off. Don't use poor quality tools, it is not worth it. I certainly agree with respect to using good quality tools. However, I've had perfectly good results with a £5 pipe cutter as well as a £15 one. I may be sufficiently inventive to have success with other things like a mitre saw - who knows. I also follow manufacturers instructions unless there is a very good reason not to do so. Here there really isn't. What would class as a very good reason? I did an emergency repair at neighbours house to a damaged copper pipe late one night without access to a full toolbox and kit. I did have some plastic pipe (Hep) some inserts and a pipe slice. I did not have my plastic pipe cutters and instead put an insert into the Hep and used the pipe slice to make the cut into the plastic pipe. The process was a little slow but the end result was a good square cut. It gave a better cut than any hacksaw or stanley knife could do. Adam |
#47
|
|||
|
|||
On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 22:25:28 GMT, "ARWadsworth"
wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message I certainly agree with respect to using good quality tools. However, I've had perfectly good results with a £5 pipe cutter as well as a £15 one. I may be sufficiently inventive to have success with other things like a mitre saw - who knows. I also follow manufacturers instructions unless there is a very good reason not to do so. Here there really isn't. What would class as a very good reason? I think you answered your own question, Adam. Presumably you didn't have access to the proper tools for whatever reason on this occasion. I did an emergency repair at neighbours house to a damaged copper pipe late one night without access to a full toolbox and kit. I did have some plastic pipe (Hep) some inserts and a pipe slice. I did not have my plastic pipe cutters and instead put an insert into the Hep and used the pipe slice to make the cut into the plastic pipe. The process was a little slow but the end result was a good square cut. It gave a better cut than any hacksaw or stanley knife could do. Adam -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#48
|
|||
|
|||
wrote:
You do. It is very difficult to slice a plastic barrier pipe with a Stanley knife. I found it quite easy, slight rocking motion to start, then it goes straight through. Nice square cut as well. -- Cheers, John. /================================================== ===============\ | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------| | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \================================================= ================/ |
#49
|
|||
|
|||
|
#50
|
|||
|
|||
David wrote: In article .com, writes David wrote: In article , Steve writes Steve wrote: As an occasional and always very hesitant diy plumber, I've always = used traditional soldered or compression fittings in the past. I'm just about to fit an outside tap and my local B&Q has a very patchy stoc= k of fittings. As a result I've bought a brass tap plus a selection of = these new fangled push fit fittings (some copper, some plastic). I'm a bit wary of the push fit stuff - is there anything I should w= atch out for? What if it leaks on test, how do I tighten it up or get it apart again? TIA Steve Thanks for all the advice. I'm sorry if I inadvertently started a fight. Seems like there's more to this push fit stuff than I thought= , I think I'll take it back and get some traditional compression and soldered fittings - I know what I'm doing with them. I would go with the plastic and get the =A35 cutter, its always useful= to have it because you're bound to do some more. I fitted my first comple= te system with plastic about 6 yrs ago using a cheap cutter, no problems = at all, I still have it and use it regularly (with new blades). Plastic is the quickest and simplest plumbing system you can fit. -- David And if on show will drop the price of your house, and at best make it difficult to sell. use copper where pipes are exposed. If you would care to google you find this is the most advised answer anyway and it is exactly what I have done as well as many others, Reading many of the posts here they just slap plastic pipe anywhere. you really are starting to sound like an amateur. I am, in that I am not qualified in any way. Well I term myself as a semi-pro as I earn a living from doing it. I am sure I know more than all the plumbers I have come across, about the range of appliances and types of systems available to get a decent flow at the showers and baths, and save valuable space in a house. Thanks to forums like this. --=20 David |
#51
|
|||
|
|||
"Andy Hall" wrote in message ... On Sun, 28 Aug 2005 22:25:28 GMT, "ARWadsworth" wrote: "Andy Hall" wrote in message I certainly agree with respect to using good quality tools. However, I've had perfectly good results with a £5 pipe cutter as well as a £15 one. I may be sufficiently inventive to have success with other things like a mitre saw - who knows. I also follow manufacturers instructions unless there is a very good reason not to do so. Here there really isn't. What would class as a very good reason? I think you answered your own question, Adam. Presumably you didn't have access to the proper tools for whatever reason on this occasion. Never lend your tools to your Dad. You will always need them as soon as he has got them! I do not have a lot of plumbing equipment and only do the odd bits of plumbing. I still have no regrets on spending about £10 on a decent plastic pipe cutter from a wholesalers. I believe it has paid for itself already on the few jobs I have used it. Adam |
#52
|
|||
|
|||
|
#53
|
|||
|
|||
David wrote: In article .com, writes Reading many of the posts here they just slap plastic pipe anywhere. I don't think that's true, being a fan of plastic I have read most of the posts that have come up on the subject and I don't see any justification for your comment. The posts I have seen all state that its fine for out of sight but use copper in visible areas. You will find your mentor condemns plastic out of hand and insists that the only place for plastic is in the toybox, perhaps you would like to get into a discussion with him about it? I'm sure he is more than capable. If he said plastic is a no, no at all costs, then I never took any notice. you really are starting to sound like an amateur. I am, in that I am not qualified in any way. Well I term myself as a semi-pro as I earn a living from doing it. I am sure I know more than all the plumbers I have come across, about the range of appliances and types of systems available to get a decent flow at the showers and baths, and save valuable space in a house. Thanks to forums like this. s'funny that tradesmen are considered professionals in their field and yet we condemn many of them as cowboys, when we claim to be semi-pro is that like half a cowboy? doing a professional job is better than being labelled a diyer, semi-pro or pro and that, I guess, is where this forum comes in. I'm sure there are some brilliant forward thinking plumbers who see the clients views and main aims, unfortunately I have never come across them. It wasn't their craft skills I was disappointed with, it was their inability to deliver a system with minimal components that releases space and gives high pressure flows. The reason the combi argument rages around is that one size does not fit all and space taken up by a cylinder is not always that valuable, many people find combi's to be inadequate and have no problem with conventional systems (like me for instance), you have found that the information gleaned from a certain poster on here is useful for what you do, fine, but I'm sure you will agree that it won't suit everybody in every situation and that is where John falls down, he won't accept that at all and takes the arguments to the silly lengths that they go to (I do agree that its takes more than one to tango) One size does not fit all that is true. I find that in most instances a combi of some description will meet most of my requirements now I am aware of the products available. I did put two combis in one house to great success. Space is important to me, as is a neat and tidy box when one is needed. I like some Gledhill cylinders as they are in a nice square neat box with all the pumps inside out of the way. The last think I want is a cold water tank and cylinder with pumps and valves hanging off it. That is a real turn off when people open the cupboard. In one house I fitted a combi at the back of the old airing cupboard, to supply only the shower and put a low pressure combination cylinder in the loft heated by the CH side of the combi. A great success, with space liberated, fast bath fills and a high pressure shower. I am interested in IMMs Rinnai suggestion to install outside and save inside space and supply two body jet showers simultaneously. Rinnai, in Runcorn, said they have a model that would do it, which being fitted outside is a doddle to fit. Would my local plumber have suggested that? I doubt it. This forum gave me that way and one landlord, Richman, has already took it up in his student house. I'm off to bed, as I have a hard week ahead. -- David |
#54
|
|||
|
|||
In article .com,
wrote: I am interested in IMMs Rinnai suggestion to install outside and save inside space and supply two body jet showers simultaneously. Rinnai, in Runcorn, said they have a model that would do it, which being fitted outside is a doddle to fit. Heard somewhere that external water heaters are a big turn off for buyers. Would my local plumber have suggested that? I doubt it. This forum gave me that way and one landlord, Richman, has already took it up in his student house. One moment you're on about ultra high class developments, next student houses? This seems suspiciously like the 'one size fits all' philosophy of your hero. -- *I got a sweater for Christmas. I really wanted a screamer or a moaner* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#55
|
|||
|
|||
Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article .com, wrote: I am interested in IMMs Rinnai suggestion to install outside and save inside space and supply two body jet showers simultaneously. Rinnai, in Runcorn, said they have a model that would do it, which being fitted outside is a doddle to fit. Heard somewhere that external water heaters are a big turn off for buyers. Did Mary whisper that in your ear while nibbling it? :-) |
#56
|
|||
|
|||
The IMM suggestion of using a Rinnai heater to supply two simultaneous showers sounds like a disaster on the way to a happening. Just do a Google search for the users experience and you won't touch one with a bargepole! Regards Capitol |
#57
|
|||
|
|||
Capitol wrote: The IMM suggestion of using a Rinnai heater to supply two simultaneous showers sounds like a disaster on the way to a happening. Just do a Google search for the users experience and you won't touch one with a bargepole! I haver Googled on the web and the goups and the majority of info is that the Rinnai is spot on and very reliable. Few negative comments overall. It is the largest produced multi-point in the world, which would tell you something. |
#58
|
|||
|
|||
Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article .com, wrote: I don't buy this. When I started using plastic pipes I used a hacksaw and trimmed of the pipe edge. More Drivel spelling? You are Drivel and I claim my 5 pounds. Oh he is back.... ? While it is *possible* to use a hacksaw and trim to give a decent end on the workbench, it's near impossible in an awkward location, so just as with everything get the correct tool for the job. How do you know? Have you ever done it? I'm very careful about any pipe jointing in difficult locations. Avoids floods. Of course by the sound of it all your 'refurbishments' will include surface mounted plastic pipes - otherwise you'd have the correct tools? Take to flying kites. You and wind go together. :-) The more you post here, the more it's obvious you don't make a living by what you claim to. Living up to your Moron image I see. -- *Time is what keeps everything from happening at once. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#59
|
|||
|
|||
|
#61
|
|||
|
|||
In article .com,
wrote: The IMM suggestion of using a Rinnai heater to supply two simultaneous showers sounds like a disaster on the way to a happening. Just do a Google search for the users experience and you won't touch one with a bargepole! I haver Googled on the web and the goups and the majority of info is that the Rinnai is spot on and very reliable. Few negative comments overall. It is the largest produced multi-point in the world, which would tell you something. We don't use multi-points in the UK these days apart for the DHSS apartments you 'renovate'. -- *That's it! I‘m calling grandma! Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#62
|
|||
|
|||
The message
from "Dave Plowman (News)" contains these words: wrote: A laser is no good as the wavelength has to be optimised They breed them on this group that is for certain. If you're not Drivel you speak the same peculiar 'English'. I don't think he could be Dribble (using a spell checker) because Dribble couldn't have maintained the separate identity for so long without cocking it up more convincingly than just using the same brand of idiot english. Given that he appeared on this ng shortly after Adam and seems to think, against all the evidence, that the sun shines out of Drivels arse my current theory is that he is Johns younger brother. Only a blood relationship would be strong enough to overcome the derision that dIMMS feeble attempts at erudition engender in the rest of us. What continues to baffle me is why this pair of anonymous morons continue to infest the newsgroup. Perhaps if we just ignored them (as I have been trying to do over recent weeks) they will go away. Drivel is unhelpful in at least 99% of his posts and I don't recall timegoesby *ever* giving any useful advice. In fact the only advice (other than worship dIMM) that I can recall that he has given is within this thread. The rather contradictory notion that a hacksaw is to be preferred to a cheap cutter. -- Roger Chapman |
#63
|
|||
|
|||
In article ,
Roger wrote: I don't think he could be Dribble (using a spell checker) because Dribble couldn't have maintained the separate identity for so long without cocking it up more convincingly than just using the same brand of idiot english. He certainly has a 'style' of writing that reminds one of John. Perhaps that's why he likes his 'poetry'. -- *Virtual reality is its own reward* Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#64
|
|||
|
|||
Andy Hall wrote: On 31 Aug 2005 11:30:37 -0700, wrote: Capitol wrote: The IMM suggestion of using a Rinnai heater to supply two simultaneous showers sounds like a disaster on the way to a happening. Just do a Google search for the users experience and you won't touch one with a bargepole! I haver Googled on the web and the goups and the majority of info is that the Rinnai is spot on and very reliable. Few negative comments overall. It is the largest produced multi-point in the world, which would tell you something. Yes - that it's the largest produced multi-point in the world. Even if true, this is no guarantee of any level of quality. A Google tells you it is quality and other research tells me that also. I may go and see one. Andrews sell a rebadged Rinnai. It is the ideal appliance for what I need, being cost effective and takes up little space, which both are an added bonus. -- .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#65
|
|||
|
|||
Dave Plowman (News) wrote: In article .com, wrote: The IMM suggestion of using a Rinnai heater to supply two simultaneous showers sounds like a disaster on the way to a happening. Just do a Google search for the users experience and you won't touch one with a bargepole! I haver Googled on the web and the goups and the majority of info is that the Rinnai is spot on and very reliable. Few negative comments overall. It is the largest produced multi-point in the world, which would tell you something. We don't use multi-points in the UK these days apart for the DHSS apartments you 'renovate'. I wish I renovated those apartments. I could retire in few years if I did. -- *That's it! I'm calling grandma! Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#66
|
|||
|
|||
On 31 Aug 2005 15:55:17 -0700, wrote:
Andy Hall wrote: On 31 Aug 2005 11:30:37 -0700, wrote: Capitol wrote: The IMM suggestion of using a Rinnai heater to supply two simultaneous showers sounds like a disaster on the way to a happening. Just do a Google search for the users experience and you won't touch one with a bargepole! I haver Googled on the web and the goups and the majority of info is that the Rinnai is spot on and very reliable. Few negative comments overall. It is the largest produced multi-point in the world, which would tell you something. Yes - that it's the largest produced multi-point in the world. Even if true, this is no guarantee of any level of quality. A Google tells you it is quality Ah that's OK then. and other research tells me that also. I may go and see one. Andrews sell a rebadged Rinnai. It is the ideal appliance for what I need, being cost effective and takes up little space, which both are an added bonus. Curious. You were talking about renovation of luxury palacial premises recently. Somehow installing a geyser in one (or even out at the back) doesn't seem to fit that image..... -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#67
|
|||
|
|||
|
#68
|
|||
|
|||
In article ,
Richard Conway wrote: I haver Googled on the web and the goups and the majority of info is that the Rinnai is spot on and very reliable. Few negative comments overall. It is the largest produced multi-point in the world, which would tell you something. I suspect that big macs are probably the largest produced burgers in the world - but I wouldn't recommend them I'm wondering why you'd want the 'largest produced multi-point' given the idea is to save space? -- *I speak fluent patriarchy but it's not my mother tongue Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
#69
|
|||
|
|||
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article , Richard Conway wrote: I haver Googled on the web and the goups and the majority of info is that the Rinnai is spot on and very reliable. Few negative comments overall. It is the largest produced multi-point in the world, which would tell you something. I suspect that big macs are probably the largest produced burgers in the world - but I wouldn't recommend them I'm wondering why you'd want the 'largest produced multi-point' given the idea is to save space? I wouldn't - think the OP was after one though |
#70
|
|||
|
|||
Andy Hall wrote: On 31 Aug 2005 15:55:17 -0700, wrote: Andy Hall wrote: On 31 Aug 2005 11:30:37 -0700, wrote: Capitol wrote: The IMM suggestion of using a Rinnai heater to supply two simultaneous showers sounds like a disaster on the way to a happening. Just do a Google search for the users experience and you won't touch one with a bargepole! I haver Googled on the web and the goups and the majority of info is that the Rinnai is spot on and very reliable. Few negative comments overall. It is the largest produced multi-point in the world, which would tell you something. Yes - that it's the largest produced multi-point in the world. Even if true, this is no guarantee of any level of quality. A Google tells you it is quality Ah that's OK then. and other research tells me that also. I may go and see one. Andrews sell a rebadged Rinnai. It is the ideal appliance for what I need, being cost effective and takes up little space, which both are an added bonus. Curious. You were talking about renovation of luxury palacial premises recently. Yes. Well some have been one bedroom flats, and others 3 bed semis. All have to be tip top and atractive to sell ASAP to as near to asking price as possible. Somehow installing a geyser in one (or even out at the back) doesn't seem to fit that image..... Image is delivering the flowrate to the body jet showers. A Rinnai is not an over the bath Ascot. Look at their web site. A nice, neat, slim white box on the rear wall. -- .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#71
|
|||
|
|||
On 1 Sep 2005 16:13:49 -0700, wrote:
Andy Hall wrote: On 31 Aug 2005 15:55:17 -0700, wrote: Curious. You were talking about renovation of luxury palacial premises recently. Yes. Well some have been one bedroom flats, and others 3 bed semis. All have to be tip top and atractive to sell ASAP to as near to asking price as possible. Ah. I see. Somehow installing a geyser in one (or even out at the back) doesn't seem to fit that image..... Image is delivering the flowrate to the body jet showers. What flow rate? There was a recent thread here indicating that at least 25-30lpm is needed for such a shower. This is easily achievable with a storage system. The mid range Rinnai, at 54kW is using almost the entire throughput of a standard domestic gas supply and still manages less than 20lpm, and that is at a 33 degree rather than the standard 35 degree temperature rise. Specifications on some models are for only a 25 degree rise. It would take the 70kW one and a commercial gas supply to achieve the flow rate needed for a proper body jet shower. Efficiency is quite poor. The 69kW input model has an output to water of only 55.4kW - around 80%. This would not be allowed for a normal boiler. A Rinnai is not an over the bath Ascot. In effect, that's exactly what it is, except mounted outside. I can't imagine why anybody would want a big white box on the outside of their house. I would be surprised if their Japanese model is that colour. Look at their web site. I have, and I am very underwhelmed. A nice, neat, slim white box on the rear wall. I think it's plug ugly. -- ..andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#72
|
|||
|
|||
Andy Hall wrote:
What flow rate? There was a recent thread here indicating that at least 25-30lpm is needed for such a shower. This is easily achievable with a storage system. The mid range Rinnai, at 54kW is using almost the entire throughput of a standard domestic gas supply and still manages less than 20lpm, and that is at a 33 degree rather than the standard 35 degree temperature rise. Specifications on some models are for only a 25 degree rise. It would take the 70kW one and a commercial gas supply to achieve the flow rate needed for a proper body jet shower. Efficiency is quite poor. The 69kW input model has an output to water of only 55.4kW - around 80%. This would not be allowed for a normal boiler. You are just letting facts get in the way of the argument. :-) Dribble has already been told many times how the Japs are moving to copper tank storage in their droves but he still can't accept he is wrong. -- Matt (aka Dribble's nemesis) The future's bright, the future's copper Dump that combi today and keep the Dr away |
#73
|
|||
|
|||
|
#74
|
|||
|
|||
Andy Hall wrote: On 1 Sep 2005 16:13:49 -0700, wrote: Andy Hall wrote: On 31 Aug 2005 15:55:17 -0700, wrote: Curious. You were talking about renovation of luxury palacial premises recently. Yes. Well some have been one bedroom flats, and others 3 bed semis. All have to be tip top and atractive to sell ASAP to as near to asking price as possible. Ah. I see. Somehow installing a geyser in one (or even out at the back) doesn't seem to fit that image..... Image is delivering the flowrate to the body jet showers. What flow rate? There was a recent thread here indicating that at least 25-30lpm is needed for such a shower. The Triton requires around 10 litres a minute minimum. The more the better. I haven't seen any that state 30 yet. This is easily achievable with a storage system. With more expense and space taken up. The mid range Rinnai, at 54kW is using almost the entire throughput of a standard domestic gas supply and still manages less than 20lpm, and that is at a 33 degree rather than the standard 35 degree temperature rise. Specifications on some models are for only a 25 degree rise. It would take the 70kW one and a commercial gas supply to achieve the flow rate needed for a proper body jet shower. You exaggerate somewhat. One outside model delivers 24 litres per minute. The Triton Tower Shower takes a minimum of 8 litres per minute at both the cold and hot inlets. The Rinnai can take up to 8 bar. The Tower Showers will be at the maximum the mains can deliver up to 6 bar. Tower showers are not thermostatic. This is where a Rinnai helps as it accurately maintains the hot water temperature. The new 25mm plastic main is delivering around 45 litres per minute at over 4 bar. The high pressure is what people like in these showers. They have diverting levers that switch from one set of jets to another keeping the flow down. Fitting an unvented cylinder is way over the top in price and consumes up lots of space and drops the pressure down to 3 bar or less. The same with a thermal store, except the thermal store operates on higher DHW pressures. I doubt if the floor could take the weight of such a large cylinder, and I am using the old airing cupboard for a shower anyway. The Rinnai will cope with two of them. I have checked it all out, as you can see. The washing machine and dishwaters are cold fill. I "may" fit a combi, which are cheap enough, to do the kitchen sink, utility room and downstairs toilet taps. Then there will be no taps robbing pressure from the Rinnai when full on. Efficiency is quite poor. The 69kW input model has an output to water of only 55.4kW - around 80%. This would not be allowed for a normal boiler. I queried this with Rinnai and they told me water heaters are exempt from being condensing. The efficiency is about the same as boilers that do not condense. A Rinnai is not an over the bath Ascot. In effect, that's exactly what it is, except mounted outside. That is the best part of it. I can't imagine why anybody would want a big white box on the outside of their house. I would be surprised if their Japanese model is that colour. I have not looked at colours as I thought all were white. Look at their web site. I have, and I am very underwhelmed. A nice, neat, slim white box on the rear wall. I think it's plug ugly. A white box is a white box. -- .andy To email, substitute .nospam with .gl |
#75
|
|||
|
|||
David wrote: In article .com, writes Yes. Well some have been one bedroom flats, and others 3 bed semis. All have to be tip top and atractive to sell ASAP to as near to asking price as possible. I think then that this is where you differ with many in the group timegoesby, its not resale and space saving that are issues for a lot of us. I would say it is. Most people do things in their homes with a view to add value. That is all people go on about, the value of their homes. Many of us bought houses to live in and have systems that suit our lifestyle without needing the space that removing a cylinder would give us. If you are satisfied with your system then leave it. I am not saying go out and buy a Rinnai because it is the new thing to do. Through initially doing it the wrong way, and saved by Internet forums as I was pretty ignorant of CH and water matters, I look at it from an angle of delivering the pressures and flow rates, saving space and cost. That does not mean slapping in an inferior cheap and nasty system. At times saving space and delivering the flow rates is important with cost is way down. Expectations of people are high these days, and many people who buy my houses are not British and come from countries where high pressure showers are not a luxury. I have to deliver. I try to buy products with quality brand names if possible. Bosch has a quality image, so if I can install a Bosch then I will. A Bosch or Neff hob is essential as the name is on show. The reason John gets into so many arguments is that he won't accept that other people have different needs and not all of us want to change over to a combi when we have well designed systems that give us the performance we require. I am not an expert on heating systems (I have installed three to date though) but even I can accept that there are alternatives to the sort of system I prefer and would change to suit. I have found combis a God send at times and I know that the more powerful models can fill baths fast enough. The much mocked idea of two combis (on this forum) saved my bacon once, being highly cost effective as well and saved a hell of a lot of installation hassle. Two Bosch Juniors. For what I wanted they were just the business. The Bosch name gave them appeal. When one shower was operating the shower off the second combi had no influence at all. Joining the two to fill the bath meant it was filled in a few minutes. There are many ways of skinning a cat and I naturally go the quality combi route as first option (I don't buy stuff from B&Q), and now looking at the Rinnai route too if need be, until they can't cope, for whatever reason, and then look at cylinders. --- David |
#76
|
|||
|
|||
|
Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Plumbing with flexible tubing - how good? | Home Repair | |||
Thanks for all the plumbing help--some parting notes.. | Metalworking | |||
Recommendations for beginner machinist tools, please... | Metalworking | |||
good book (plumbing, electrical, heating, etc.) | Home Repair | |||
Thermal store cycliners - which one/any good? | UK diy |