On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 17:54:57 +0100, Gerd Busker
wrote:

In article Doctor Drivel wrote:

The death rate in the UK by elecrical systems is very low.

Compared to where though?

It's 11% of 411 in the US in 2001 :
http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/a/acci...eath/stats.htm

No idea what it would be here or in Europe.

When the current round of nanny-state electrical regs changes were being
discussed, I seem to recall a figure of around 10 deaths was widely quoted.
As it was reckoned that perhaps 90% of those (either direct electrocution or
from resulting fires) might be put down to misuse such as overloading
sockets or trailing extensions, the regs were scornfully labelled as being
necessary to maybe prevent 1 death per year due to poor installations.
Especially as making it more difficult to carry out d-i-y work or get a
qualified and affordable electrician in, might lead to more use of extension
leads etc.

--
Dogs crawl under fences, Software crawls under Windows

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
When was it universally adopted?
They came in after WW2 as a material saving exercise, as well as other
benefits.

I think the 1960s.

You think wrong.

Rings are "not" mandatory. Many are going to radials as rings create
magnetic fields around a house.

More ******** from our guessing 'expert'.

Many people are susceptible to this.

Well, you are with your claims for your water softener which has softened
your brain.

Radials avoid the problem

And just why should a radial be better or worse for 'magnetic fields'?
Have you any idea how such things are created?

--
*Is it true that cannibals don't eat clowns because they taste funny?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article s.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
lug
behind, which is a pain to get at. A fused spur above, over the
worktop,
with a fuse in, and the ring mcb, and then an RCD. They say we
overkill.
If there is a fault and the fuse blows behind the washing machine?
They
thing it is silly to have a fuse in that plug, when a fused spur
gives
protection above. I agree with them. I know some people who
remove the
fuse and put a copper wire across the washing machine plug, so they
don't
have to drag the washing machine out. A good thing? Maybe not as
the
appliance may be faulty.


That is one of the many failing with ring circuits I've tried to
illustrate, but the IEEE 'dinosaurs' just can't see the wood for the
trees....

The only way you'd 'improve' on this would be to have one radial circuit
per socket with its own MCB.

Total madness and completely unnecessary.

You seem to thing plug fuses blow regularly. I can't honestly think of the
last time I had to replace one which has failed for no reason. And if an
appliance has a fault, that fault has to be corrected anyway, so it makes
little difference if the fuse is in the plug, the appliance itself or non
at all but simply an MCB.

--
*Why do they put Braille on the drive-through bank machines?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article s.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
1946 supplement to the 11th Edition Wiring Regs was when it was
officially sanctioned, but people had started using ring circuits
beforehand. Installation was universal by 1950, except in towns
which didn't yet have a 200-250V AC mains supply (13A sockets
were not allowed on DC supplies or AC supplies with no neutral).


I read DD as meaning that the BS1363 plug was not universally adopted
until the 1960s.

Some were still extending or modifying the old 5/15 amp radials later than
that.

As for radials, they are still being installed, they just have either
a FCU or BS1363 socket at the end, as of the date of sanction /
implication, the date is most telling - being a time of shortage,
final ring circuits using less raw material than radials circuits....

You might well use radials where a known load is being imposed - like say
in a workshop. That makes sense.

In domestic premises, the actual load can only be guessed at, and rings
are ideal for the myriad of low current appliances found in the average
house today. With the proviso of a separate ring or indeed rings where
heavy fixed loads are likely to be like the kitchen and utility room.

--
*How can I miss you if you won't go away?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
1946 supplement to the 11th Edition Wiring Regs was when it was
officially sanctioned, but people had started using ring circuits
beforehand. Installation was universal by 1950, except in towns
which didn't yet have a 200-250V AC mains supply (13A sockets

My mothers house was new in 1953, was 250V, 3 pin plugs and radials.

Then it was wired by the same sort as the plumbers you criticise for not
liking condensing boilers.

Dinosaurs aren't new.

Radials are not outlawed and rings are not mandatory.

No one has said they are. As usual, you've misunderstood things.

Even today it is take your choice. AFAICS, rings became common in the
1960s.

You'd have to define common. But then that's something you never do.

snip historical misinformation

Everyone here will take Andrew's word before you anytime.

--
*I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel andrew@a17 wrote:
There are tales of the fuses coming off and getting stuck
in the socket.

Ah - D&S 13 amp plugs. The spawn of the devil. Dreadful cord grips too.
The BBC used them for years for technical supplies before changing to
Walsall gauge. Other nonsenses used to keep technical supplies separate
from GS ones were the Cannon EP4 which was an even bigger danger and then
the 'XLR' LNE. Then IEC 'kettle plugs' and now at last a decent mains
plug/socket, the Neutric 'Speakon' based mains.

--
*All those who believe in psychokinesis, raise my hand *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Not really. Rings came about because of ships, to reduce the amount of
cable, and one lighting cable could be strung around the whole ship.

Words fail me. Is there no limits to the inventions of this fool?

[snip the rest of the nonsense}

--
*The closest I ever got to a 4.0 in school was my blood alcohol content*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Rings are "not" mandatory. Many are going to radials as rings create
magnetic fields around a house.
Many people are susceptible to this.

Well, you are with your claims for your water softener which has softened
your brain.

Yes, I nearly suggested to drivel that ring circuits should
avoid the need for magnetic water softeners, but then thought
better of it -- he would probably believe it and quote me
forever more ;-)

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
When was it universally adopted?

They came in after WW2

You don't say..

snip babbling misinformation

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:

1946 supplement to the 11th Edition Wiring Regs was when it was
officially sanctioned, but people had started using ring circuits
beforehand. Installation was universal by 1950, except in towns
which didn't yet have a 200-250V AC mains supply (13A sockets

My mothers house was new in 1953, was 250V, 3 pin plugs and radials.

Then it was wired

snip babble and misinformation

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Not really. Rings came about because of ships, to reduce the amount of
cable, and one lighting cable could be strung around the whole ship.

Words fail me.

They always have as incoherent babble always emerges.

:::Jerry:::: wrote:
If you want to you can wire the washing machine into an unfused
flex outlet unit below the worktop and use an FCU above, or use an
unfused 15A socket below the worktop.
A FCU with a 'BS1363' type plug fuse in it can be over ridden,
leaving the appliance protected at 30A, a 15A fuse-less socket would
have to be a radial anyway.

A 15A unfused socket (of course it's actually the plug that's unfused)
can be downstream of a 13A FCU on a ring.

You seem to be obsessed with people deviously short-circuiting plug
fuses, which I've never seen or heard of actually happening.

Nails in 30A rewriable fuses perhaps, but that's usually because the
wiring is f'cked anyway so the fuse keeps blowing.

Anyway, it only takes a moment to move a wire from a 16A socket MCB to
the 45A shower MCB in the CU.

Owain

"Andrew Gabriel" andrew@a17 wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Rings are "not" mandatory. Many are going to radials as rings create
magnetic fields around a house.
Many people are susceptible to this.

Well, you are with your claims for your water softener which has
softened
your brain.

Yes, I nearly suggested to drivel that ring circuits should
avoid the need for magnetic water softeners, but then thought
better of it -- he would probably believe it and quote me
forever more ;-)

Do you mean ring circuits get scaled up?

Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Andrew Gabriel" andrew@a17 wrote in message
.. .
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article
ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Rings are "not" mandatory. Many are going to radials as rings
create magnetic fields around a house.
Many people are susceptible to this.

Well, you are with your claims for your water softener which has
softened your brain.

Yes, I nearly suggested to drivel that ring circuits should
avoid the need for magnetic water softeners, but then thought
better of it -- he would probably believe it and quote me
forever more ;-)

Do you mean ring circuits get scaled up?


No, because of the magnetic fields generated due to the ring configuration.

Only radial circuits get scaled up.

HTH

In article ws.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
The point about a ring and fused plugs is that they can suffer more
abuse than radials and still be safe.

How is protecting a 3A rated appliance at 30A more safe when some
idiot wraps a bit of wire around the blown fuse?...

You trying to say people didn't ever use the wrong fuse wire in radial
circuits?

Or saying that nobody would ever change an MCB that kept tripping in an
overloaded radial to an unsuitable one in a workshop, etc?

I've got news for you...

--
*Middle age is when it takes longer to rest than to get tired.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
s.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
lug
behind, which is a pain to get at. A fused spur above, over
the
worktop,
with a fuse in, and the ring mcb, and then an RCD. They say we
overkill.
If there is a fault and the fuse blows behind the washing
machine?
They
thing it is silly to have a fuse in that plug, when a fused
spur
gives
protection above. I agree with them. I know some people who
remove the
fuse and put a copper wire across the washing machine plug, so
they
don't
have to drag the washing machine out. A good thing? Maybe not
as
the
appliance may be faulty.


That is one of the many failing with ring circuits I've tried to
illustrate, but the IEEE 'dinosaurs' just can't see the wood for
the
trees....

The only way you'd 'improve' on this would be to have one radial
circuit
per socket with its own MCB.

No, there is no need for one socket per radial, what *is required*
are the MCB's (which is far more difficult to circumvent), in these
days of low wattage appliances you could easily have two if not three
sockets per radial without load problems - how many people use more
than one Kew fire in a room anyway (any such load would have extra
provision made even now in many homes, even with ring circuits) ?...


Total madness and completely unnecessary.

You seem to thing plug fuses blow regularly. I can't honestly think
of the
last time I had to replace one which has failed for no reason. And
if an
appliance has a fault, that fault has to be corrected anyway, so it
makes
little difference if the fuse is in the plug, the appliance itself
or non
at all but simply an MCB.


It's not just about fuses blowing, it people using the wrong fuse,
for example protecting a table lamp with a 13A fuse, when the lamp
should / could be on a lighting circuit. What I'm trying to get over
is that there is (IMO) the need to remove the user from the direct
supervision of the appliances final protection. Sealed MCB's / RCD's
back at a distro' board allows that, this was not an option back in
the 1940/50's.

You seem to be happy that someone can protect a single 40W light bulb
stand and meters of such rated cable @ 13A (or more, if the *user*
wishes and does something totally idiotic) with little or no
thought - far enough...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

snip

In domestic premises, the actual load can only be guessed at, and
rings
are ideal for the myriad of low current appliances found in the
average
house today. With the proviso of a separate ring or indeed rings
where
heavy fixed loads are likely to be like the kitchen and utility
room.


Or any part of the house were large electrical fires are, or might,
be used - in one of our past houses we had 3 rings (one on each
floor), the kitchen was on a separate supply, such was the size of
each room if the CH failed and electric heating had to be used each
room would have needed a 3Kw fire and with four or more rooms on each
of the two lower floors...

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 20:57:23 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andrew Gabriel" andrew@a17 wrote in message
. ..
In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Rings are "not" mandatory. Many are going to radials as rings create
magnetic fields around a house.
Many people are susceptible to this.

Well, you are with your claims for your water softener which has
softened
your brain.

Yes, I nearly suggested to drivel that ring circuits should
avoid the need for magnetic water softeners, but then thought
better of it -- he would probably believe it and quote me
forever more ;-)

Do you mean ring circuits get scaled up?


Usually out to garages and back according to your design guide



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
When was it universally adopted?

They came in after WW2

You don't say..

Oh - I do. And given that your 'knowledge' of anything comes from adverts
and websites, surely a little Googling will say so too?

You do know how to Google?

--
*Hang in there, retirement is only thirty years away! *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
My mothers house was new in 1953, was 250V, 3 pin plugs and radials.

250 volts. Heh heh.

--
*You can't have everything, where would you put it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Not really. Rings came about because of ships, to reduce the amount
of cable, and one lighting cable could be strung around the whole
ship.

Words fail me.

incoherent babble always emerges.

It certainly does. When will you stop?

--
*If all is not lost, where the hell is it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
ws.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
The point about a ring and fused plugs is that they can suffer
more
abuse than radials and still be safe.

How is protecting a 3A rated appliance at 30A more safe when some
idiot wraps a bit of wire around the blown fuse?...

You trying to say people didn't ever use the wrong fuse wire in
radial
circuits?

No, I'm not saying that, It would be crazy to (go back and) use wire
fuses a the fix circuit protection on radial circuits - just as it's
with ring circuits today, MCB'S are the way things are going.


Or saying that nobody would ever change an MCB that kept tripping
in an
overloaded radial to an unsuitable one in a workshop, etc?


But that requires some thought, anyone from a child to an OAP can,
has and will replace a BS1363 type plug fuse with the wrong rating at
some point - accidentally or intentionally.

"Owain" wrote in message
...
snip

Anyway, it only takes a moment to move a wire from a 16A socket MCB
to
the 45A shower MCB in the CU.


Yes, and I can really see a 80 year old 'Granny Mabble' doing that,
her replacing a 3A fuse with a 13A one is almost a certain bet at
somewhere....

:::Jerry:::: wrote:
You seem to be happy that someone can protect a single 40W light bulb
stand and meters of such rated cable @ 13A (or more, if the *user*
wishes and does something totally idiotic) with little or no
thought - far enough...

But that is exactly what happens with unfused plugs. And unless you are
going to return to the days of 5A and 15A sockets (and a plethora of
adapters, often unfused) *all* the socket circuit MBCs have to be
adequate for the heaviest load eg 3kW heater so the circuit cannot be
protected at a lower value. This is exactly what happens in countries
with unfused plugs - table lamps on 16A or 20A circuits.

Owain

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Doctor Drivel wrote:
You don't say..
Oh - I do. And given that your 'knowledge' of anything comes from adverts
and websites, surely a little Googling will say so too?
You do know how to Google?

Please, don't tell him. He's bad enough with back issues of Practical
Plumbing for Merchants' Messenger Boys.

Owain

On Wednesday, in article
ws.net
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
in use today). Its safety speaks for itself when compared
to other systems in the world. I won't pretend it has no
issues or it could not be improved -- there have been a
number of improvements through its nearly 60 year life.

When was it universally adopted? I think the 1960s. Rings are "not"
mandatory. Many are going to radials as rings create magnetic fields around
a house. Many people are susceptible to this. Radials avoid the problem

The first ring mains date back to ca.1947, when the Wylex (?) plugs were
introduced: a central round earth pin, with the phase & neutral pins
being rectangular, in the horizontal plane slightly above the centre of
the earth pin.

By the early 1950s, ring mains and our present-day familiar 13A plugs
were standard (and mandated?) for all new construction.

--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
"I don't think you're in the top class when it comes to thinking
- I suspect I could wade through the depths of your mind and not
wet my ankles." Peter Thomas, in news:uk.telecom 24-Jul-2005

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Not really. Rings came about because of ships, to reduce the amount
of cable, and one lighting cable could be strung around the whole
ship.

Words fail me.

incoherent babble always emerges.

It certainly

incoherent babble always emerges.

snip

On Wednesday, in article
ws.net
"Doctor Drivel" wrote:

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
In article ws.net,
"Doctor Drivel" writes:

When was it universally adopted? I think the 1960s.

1946 supplement to the 11th Edition Wiring Regs was when it was
officially sanctioned, but people had started using ring circuits
beforehand. Installation was universal by 1950, except in towns
which didn't yet have a 200-250V AC mains supply (13A sockets

My mothers house was new in 1953, was 250V, 3 pin plugs and radials.
Radials are not outlawed and rings are not mandatory. Even today it is take
your choice. AFAICS, rings became common in the 1960s.

In 1953, my parents moved into a Officers' Married Quarter at RAF Little
Rissington; this was not brand new, but had only had one previous tenant
since being built, under MPBW[1] direction, in 1951. This house had 13A
"square pin" plugs throughout, which fascinated me as an eight-year-old,
since I'd only hitherto seen two- or three- ROUND pin sockets, in two
sizes (5A & 15A).

In 1956, we moved into a C16th cottage belonging to a family friend; this
had been recently renovated after the death of the aged relative that had
occupied it, and 13A sockets and ring mains were standard. So the old
systems were definitely dying out by the mid-50s, if not earlier.

[1] Ministry of Public Buildings and Works[2] (often known as the
Ministry of Public Blunders and Wonders).

[2] Or perhaps HMOW = His Majesty's Office of Works.
--
Brian {Hamilton Kelly}
"I don't think you're in the top class when it comes to thinking
- I suspect I could wade through the depths of your mind and not
wet my ankles." Peter Thomas, in news:uk.telecom 24-Jul-2005

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
My mothers house was new in 1953, was 250V, 3 pin plugs and radials.
250 volts. Heh heh.

In 1949, Glasgow, Greenock, Motherwell, Merthyr, Redcar, and no doubt
many other places had 250 Vac (and often Vdc)

Edinburgh had 230 / 460 Vdc and 115 / 230 / 400 Vac

Leeds coulnd't make its mind up between 200, 230, 346 or 400 Vac.
Colchester and Stafford were still on 210 / 420 Vdc.

Very few places wree on 240/415 Vac.

(Practical Electrical Wiring and Contracting, E H Freeman MIEE, London:
Odhams Press)

Owain

In article ws.net,
":::Jerry::::" writes:

You seem to be happy that someone can protect a single 40W light bulb
stand and meters of such rated cable @ 13A (or more, if the *user*
wishes and does something totally idiotic) with little or no
thought - far enough...

You're obscessed with a non-issue.
Attempting to "fix" such non-issues can't bring any real
benefits, but can introduce real problems.
If you want to present a valid argument which can be taken
seriously, you need to identify real problems that actually
matter.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
In article ws.net,
":::Jerry::::" writes:

You seem to be happy that someone can protect a single 40W light bulb
stand and meters of such rated cable @ 13A (or more, if the *user*
wishes and does something totally idiotic) with little or no
thought - far enough...

You're obscessed with a non-issue.
Attempting to "fix" such non-issues can't bring any real
benefits, but can introduce real problems.
If you want to present a valid argument which can be taken
seriously, you need to identify real problems that actually
matter.

Murphy's Laws says "If can happen, it will happen".
How do you protect from all eventualities?

You are going to say, you cannot.
Then it is a matter of reducing the probabilities of Murphy's Law being
invoked.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
When was it universally adopted?

They came in after WW2

You don't say..

Oh - I do.

That's good enough for us then. Did they wire up the WW2 battleships with
square 3-pin plugs?

":::Jerry::::" wrote in message
eenews.net...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article
s.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
lug
behind, which is a pain to get at. A fused spur above, over
the
worktop,
with a fuse in, and the ring mcb, and then an RCD. They say we
overkill.
If there is a fault and the fuse blows behind the washing
machine?
They
thing it is silly to have a fuse in that plug, when a fused
spur
gives
protection above. I agree with them. I know some people who
remove the
fuse and put a copper wire across the washing machine plug, so
they
don't
have to drag the washing machine out. A good thing? Maybe not
as
the
appliance may be faulty.


That is one of the many failing with ring circuits I've tried to
illustrate, but the IEEE 'dinosaurs' just can't see the wood for
the
trees....

The only way you'd 'improve' on this would be to have one radial
circuit
per socket with its own MCB.

No, there is no need for one socket per radial,

That is obvious, but don't tell him.

Total madness and completely unnecessary.

You seem to thing plug fuses blow regularly. I can't honestly think
of the
last time I had to replace one which has failed for no reason. And
if an
appliance has a fault, that fault has to be corrected anyway, so it
makes
little difference if the fuse is in the plug, the appliance itself
or non
at all but simply an MCB.


It's not just about fuses blowing, it people using the wrong fuse,
for example protecting a table lamp with a 13A fuse,

Don't tell him.

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 23:19:32 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:


"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
. ..
In article ws.net,
":::Jerry::::" writes:

You seem to be happy that someone can protect a single 40W light bulb
stand and meters of such rated cable @ 13A (or more, if the *user*
wishes and does something totally idiotic) with little or no
thought - far enough...

You're obscessed with a non-issue.
Attempting to "fix" such non-issues can't bring any real
benefits, but can introduce real problems.
If you want to present a valid argument which can be taken
seriously, you need to identify real problems that actually
matter.

Murphy's Laws says "If can happen, it will happen".
How do you protect from all eventualities?

You are going to say, you cannot.
Then it is a matter of reducing the probabilities of Murphy's Law being
invoked.


Plastic plumbing manufacturers seem to manage this issue quite
effectively with simple sheets of instructions with pictures showing
what to do. These are so good that they can give 20 or even 50 year
guarantees on their products.

Then D I M Murphy comes along.....

On an actuarial basis, they are still onto a safe bet though....



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Doctor Drivel wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ws.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
When was it universally adopted?

They came in after WW2

You don't say..

Oh - I do.

That's good enough for us then. Did they wire up the WW2 battleships
with square 3-pin plugs?

Dunno but I found this interesting...

(from http://www.lsionline.co.uk/lsi/features/articles/sep2004_2.asp)

"Shipboard electrical systems are unusual in that supplies are normally
delta wired, so there is no neutral. The ship's hull is used as earth, but
leakage currents to earth are not allowed as it causes corrosion of the
hull. It can also be an electrically noisy environment, which can cause
problems if the correct precautions are not taken. Supply voltages for stage
equipment vary with 220V, 400V and 440V all being used on different ships."

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 23:19:32 +0100, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
. ..
In article ws.net,
":::Jerry::::" writes:

You seem to be happy that someone can protect a single 40W light bulb
stand and meters of such rated cable @ 13A (or more, if the *user*
wishes and does something totally idiotic) with little or no
thought - far enough...

You're obscessed with a non-issue.
Attempting to "fix" such non-issues can't bring any real
benefits, but can introduce real problems.
If you want to present a valid argument which can be taken
seriously, you need to identify real problems that actually
matter.

Murphy's Laws says "If can happen, it will happen".
How do you protect from all eventualities?

You are going to say, you cannot.
Then it is a matter of reducing the probabilities of Murphy's Law being
invoked.

Plastic plumbing manufacturers seem to manage this issue quite
effectively with simple sheets of instructions with pictures showing
what to do.

Should all electrical installations have sheets of instructions on the wall
near them? Boy you do come out with them? This one has no idea at all.

By the early 1950s, ring mains and our present-day familiar 13A plugs
were standard (and mandated?) for all new construction.

Not mandated, as even today you are required to have neither.

Christian.

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .
In article
ws.net,
":::Jerry::::" writes:

You seem to be happy that someone can protect a single 40W light
bulb
stand and meters of such rated cable @ 13A (or more, if the
*user*
wishes and does something totally idiotic) with little or no
thought - far enough...

You're obscessed with a non-issue.
Attempting to "fix" such non-issues can't bring any real
benefits, but can introduce real problems.
If you want to present a valid argument which can be taken
seriously, you need to identify real problems that actually
matter.


You must be very inexperienced, blind or very young if you have never
come across a BS1362 plug that has either the wrong fuse or worst
still a solid link (of what ever sort) fitted....

John Cartmell wrote:
In article ws.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
Possibly, and how many of those sockets you need will ever be used
for anything over 2Kw?

One will have a heater attached whilst many of the others will be
running computers that require no more power than 2 or 3 AA batteries
could provide.

But I was illustrating that times change.

I wish they would introduce a small, low power (2A?) plug/socket so my PC
setup (currently using 9 13A sockets) could be done with a lot less space...

On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 17:15:31 GMT,it is alleged that "PC Paul"
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

John Cartmell wrote:
In article ws.net,
:::Jerry:::: wrote:
Possibly, and how many of those sockets you need will ever be used
for anything over 2Kw?

One will have a heater attached whilst many of the others will be
running computers that require no more power than 2 or 3 AA batteries
could provide.

But I was illustrating that times change.

I wish they would introduce a small, low power (2A?) plug/socket so my PC
setup (currently using 9 13A sockets) could be done with a lot less space...

IEC plugs and sockets maybe? Power strips (distribution boards) in
this format are readily available and they're rated at a healthy 10 or
6 amps (depending on manufacturer). The length per socket is about 3/4
inch.

http://www.dataandpower.com/gallery/...ic0001_jpg.jpg

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