On Saturday, June 21, 2014 8:49:07 PM UTC-4, Clare wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2014 08:12:29 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

If you want professional help and quality parts then it's on you to

rearrange you schedule. If you can't rearrange your schedule and

recognize that people deserve their time off then you might as

well get use to the **** quality/help that one most often gets at

Home Depot.

The overall concept of the big box store is rotten. That's what happens with the large non-unionized corporate structure. Secrecy and too much else is left to chance and is too rampant throughout and the customer is left wondering why the result is so screwed-up. The workers have to all be on the same page. Then the surroundings follow.

Having these big box stores come to a community results in shutting down stores that were already there. Then the younger generations there wonder: "Why even stay? Everythings closed down, but the Walmart and Home Depot".. Nothing is here any more except a Walmart and an Home Depot (or a Lowes)..

Then, those two go out of business because too few people are even left in the town.


And it's really got nothing to do with "non-union" either.

You don't


have to be a union shop to treat your employees with respect and pay a

decent wage.

Only if the labor unions agree. (your word *by itself* just isn't good enough)

On Sunday, June 22, 2014 8:33:15 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, June 21, 2014 11:36:57 AM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:

On Saturday, June 21, 2014 8:12:29 AM UTC-7, wrote:



The overall concept of the big box store is rotten. That's what happens with the large non-unionized corporate structure. Secrecy and too much else is left to chance and is too rampant throughout and the customer is left wondering why the result is so screwed-up. The workers have to all be on the same page. Then the surroundings follow.





Having these big box stores come to a community results in shutting down stores that were already there. Then the younger generations there wonder: "Why even stay? Everythings closed down, but the Walmart and Home Depot". Nothing is here any more except a Walmart and an Home Depot (or a Lowes).



Then, those two go out of business because too few people are even left in the town.





Examples of plumbing supplies stores that complete with big box stores like Home Depot and Lowes and win:



http://www.benderplumbing.com/



http://www.whitesplumbing.com/about.html



Yes, industry corporate giants don't ALWAYS do ALL of the winning.



Still, some wieldy industry giants are overall favored by those they affect, but you are right. There are always the few specialty stores that succeed.



However, most big box stores do remain where they are and they leave too few other reasonable options. Like big banks, they don't micromanage enough and their teams too often aren't on the same page. Especially with the rampant lack of collective bargaining outfits.



The more of these places that break up into smaller operations, the better.

On Sunday, June 22, 2014 8:36:32 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, June 21, 2014 8:49:07 PM UTC-4, Clare wrote:

Only if the labor unions agree. (your word *by itself* just isn't good enough)

LOL

On Sun, 22 Jun 2014 08:36:32 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, June 21, 2014 8:49:07 PM UTC-4, Clare wrote:
On Sat, 21 Jun 2014 08:12:29 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

If you want professional help and quality parts then it's on you to

rearrange you schedule. If you can't rearrange your schedule and

recognize that people deserve their time off then you might as

well get use to the **** quality/help that one most often gets at

Home Depot.

The overall concept of the big box store is rotten. That's what happens with the large non-unionized corporate structure. Secrecy and too much else is left to chance and is too rampant throughout and the customer is left wondering why the result is so screwed-up. The workers have to all be on the same page. Then the surroundings follow.

Having these big box stores come to a community results in shutting down stores that were already there. Then the younger generations there wonder: "Why even stay? Everythings closed down, but the Walmart and Home Depot". Nothing is here any more except a Walmart and an Home Depot (or a Lowes).

Then, those two go out of business because too few people are even left in the town.


And it's really got nothing to do with "non-union" either.

You don't


have to be a union shop to treat your employees with respect and pay a

decent wage.

Only if the labor unions agree. (your word *by itself* just isn't good enough)
I don't need the union's permission to treat my employees like humans
and to pay them a decent wage. I can pay an amployee what he is wort -
not limitted by union scale, where I cannot reward a good worker over
a slacker.

Sorry - but I've had enough Union BS to last a lifetime. Will NEVER
work for a Union shop - and I'll never operate a business if I'm
forced to work with a union. I contract out to union shops, but I'm
not involved with the union, being self employed/management.

On Sun, 22 Jun 2014 08:33:15 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Saturday, June 21, 2014 11:36:57 AM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:
On Saturday, June 21, 2014 8:12:29 AM UTC-7, wrote:

The overall concept of the big box store is rotten. That's what happens with the large non-unionized corporate structure. Secrecy and too much else is left to chance and is too rampant throughout and the customer is left wondering why the result is so screwed-up. The workers have to all be on the same page. Then the surroundings follow.


Having these big box stores come to a community results in shutting down stores that were already there. Then the younger generations there wonder: "Why even stay? Everythings closed down, but the Walmart and Home Depot". Nothing is here any more except a Walmart and an Home Depot (or a Lowes).

Then, those two go out of business because too few people are even left in the town.


Examples of plumbing supplies stores that complete with big box stores like Home Depot and Lowes and win:

http://www.benderplumbing.com/

http://www.whitesplumbing.com/about.html

Yes, industry corporate giants don't ALWAYS do ALL of the winning.

Still, some wieldy industry giants are overall favored by those they affect, but you are right. There are always the few specialty stores that succeed.

However, most big box stores do remain where they are and they leave too few other reasonable options. Like big banks, they don't micromanage enough and their teams too often aren't on the same page. Especially with the rampant lack of collective bargaining outfits.

The more of these places that break up into smaller operations, the better.
You don't need a "collective bargaining unit" to get all of your
employees trained in product knowlege and customer relations, and to
ensure the customer is served properly - and the employee treated
properly. You just need "decent human beings" running the business,
and working for the business. It cuts both ways, guys.

On Sunday, June 22, 2014 12:49:53 PM UTC-7, Clare wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2014 08:33:15 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



On Saturday, June 21, 2014 11:36:57 AM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:

On Saturday, June 21, 2014 8:12:29 AM UTC-7, wrote:



The overall concept of the big box store is rotten. That's what happens with the large non-unionized corporate structure. Secrecy and too much else is left to chance and is too rampant throughout and the customer is left wondering why the result is so screwed-up. The workers have to all be on the same page. Then the surroundings follow.





Having these big box stores come to a community results in shutting down stores that were already there. Then the younger generations there wonder: "Why even stay? Everythings closed down, but the Walmart and Home Depot". Nothing is here any more except a Walmart and an Home Depot (or a Lowes).



Then, those two go out of business because too few people are even left in the town.





Examples of plumbing supplies stores that complete with big box stores like Home Depot and Lowes and win:



http://www.benderplumbing.com/



http://www.whitesplumbing.com/about.html



Yes, industry corporate giants don't ALWAYS do ALL of the winning.



Still, some wieldy industry giants are overall favored by those they affect, but you are right. There are always the few specialty stores that succeed.



However, most big box stores do remain where they are and they leave too few other reasonable options. Like big banks, they don't micromanage enough and their teams too often aren't on the same page. Especially with the rampant lack of collective bargaining outfits.



The more of these places that break up into smaller operations, the better.

You don't need a "collective bargaining unit" to get all of your

employees trained in product knowlege and customer relations, and to

ensure the customer is served properly - and the employee treated

properly. You just need "decent human beings" running the business,

and working for the business. It cuts both ways, guys.


If human beings acted liked Clare does every business would need to be unionized for any employee to be treated decently.

On Sunday, June 22, 2014 12:46:50 PM UTC-7, Clare wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2014 08:36:32 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



On Saturday, June 21, 2014 8:49:07 PM UTC-4, Clare wrote:

On Sat, 21 Jun 2014 08:12:29 -0700 (PDT), wrote:



If you want professional help and quality parts then it's on you to



rearrange you schedule. If you can't rearrange your schedule and



recognize that people deserve their time off then you might as



well get use to the **** quality/help that one most often gets at



Home Depot.



The overall concept of the big box store is rotten. That's what happens with the large non-unionized corporate structure. Secrecy and too much else is left to chance and is too rampant throughout and the customer is left wondering why the result is so screwed-up. The workers have to all be on the same page. Then the surroundings follow.



Having these big box stores come to a community results in shutting down stores that were already there. Then the younger generations there wonder: "Why even stay? Everythings closed down, but the Walmart and Home Depot". Nothing is here any more except a Walmart and an Home Depot (or a Lowes).



Then, those two go out of business because too few people are even left in the town.





And it's really got nothing to do with "non-union" either.



You don't





have to be a union shop to treat your employees with respect and pay a



decent wage.



Only if the labor unions agree. (your word *by itself* just isn't good enough)

I don't need the union's permission to treat my employees like humans

and to pay them a decent wage. I can pay an amployee what he is wort -

not limitted by union scale, where I cannot reward a good worker over

a slacker.



Sorry - but I've had enough Union BS to last a lifetime. Will NEVER

work for a Union shop - and I'll never operate a business if I'm

forced to work with a union. I contract out to union shops, but I'm

not involved with the union, being self employed/management.


It's people like Clare that employees need unions to protect themselves against.

rangerssuck wrote:

when you buy plumbing parts at HD, make sure to LOOK at them. I just finished a plumbing job today that would have been done yesterday if someone at HD hadn't screwed with the parts. I had a 1 1/2" PVC union that was MISSING THE O RING.

The guy in the plumbing dept this morning told me to buy a new one, take out the O ring and then return the union. All well and good, but then it will just end up back on the shelf and the same thing will happen to someone else. Sucks pretty much.

You have to check everything. The previous guy got shorted and just visited and took the
o-ring out of yours.

I detest having to be the quality assurance inspector.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Sunday, June 22, 2014 5:25:53 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:
On Sunday, June 22, 2014 12:46:50 PM UTC-7, Clare wrote:

...

Sorry - but I've had enough Union BS to last a lifetime. Will NEVER

work for a Union shop - and I'll never operate a business if I'm

forced to work with a union. I contract out to union shops, but I'm

not involved with the union, being self employed/management.

It's people like Clare that employees need unions to protect themselves
against.

Its tougher to convince heirs and heiresses and others of that kind of thing.

But its still good to know that at least labor unions have dominant power in most other leading nations.

On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 12:29:01 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, June 22, 2014 5:25:53 PM UTC-4, jon_banquer wrote:
On Sunday, June 22, 2014 12:46:50 PM UTC-7, Clare wrote:

...

Sorry - but I've had enough Union BS to last a lifetime. Will NEVER

work for a Union shop - and I'll never operate a business if I'm

forced to work with a union. I contract out to union shops, but I'm

not involved with the union, being self employed/management.

It's people like Clare that employees need unions to protect themselves
against.

Its tougher to convince heirs and heiresses and others of that kind of thing.

But its still good to know that at least labor unions have dominant power in most other leading nations.
No-one who ever worked for me had any complaints. I brought in
benefits as good as or better than the union shop would have given
them, and they worked for me - not the union. The good workers got
paid more than the not so good ones, and when things were slow I kept
them on - paying them their full wage to do maintenance work that
needed doing, instead of hiring outside contractors to do the work
(union or non-union)

My dad did the same thing Anyone who ever worked for him had nothing
but good to say of him.
Yes, there are a lot of companies out there that NEED to have a union
to protect their workers - but being a non union shop does NOT
necessarily mean the worker gets the shaft.

On Tue, 17 Jun 2014 15:06:19 -0700, wrote:

On Mon, 16 Jun 2014 13:00:36 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, June 16, 2014 2:27:21 PM UTC-4, rangerssuck wrote:





Suggest in the future that you buy plumbing supplies from a real plumbing supply store even if they are slightly more expensive as you will be supporting a local business who probably gives superior advice and service.



Show me a plumbing supplier who's open on Sunday (or even Saturday afternoon), and I'll be glad to go there.

A while back I made it a point to buy some pluming bit from a real plumbing supply store. I was surprised to find it was over twice as expensive as the same part at Lowes. Since I knew exactly what I wanted, I did not need the superior advice.

Since then I found out that Home Depot and Lowes gives me a 10% discount since I am a veteran.

Dan


Superior advice? I wish!

I have a new washing machine coming from HD. They do not come with
hoses. First "associate" advised me to buy a set of hoses for $23. I
went to look at them when a second "associate" told me not to buy them
as the company will not install them. He advised different hoses and
to buy them singly, $16 per hose. Could not explain why the price
difference (snotty "I only work here" response). Apparently the second
hose is made in Canada (web site says Taiwan but never mind) I had a
careful look at the hoses - no O-rings! This set bells off so I went
to another shop where they sold a different set of hoses, specifically
designed ("required") for HE machines - price a bit less than $30 for
a set. This HE business was not even discussed in HD. At least these
have O-rings. Now I am really twitchy and go to the local specialist
plumber store - they will know! There I was shown a single hose which
they apparently sell to everybody. Any enquiries re-previously
mentioned subjects were met with blank stare. Cost per hose - $16
(with O-rings :-)

Right now I am consulting an Ouija board...

Here is the end of the story: The machine arrived today *with* the
full complement of hoses. So neither of the associates knew their
product.

Fortunately I can take the others back for a full refund.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC

On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 18:23:10 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 17 Jun 2014 15:06:19 -0700, wrote:

On Mon, 16 Jun 2014 13:00:36 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, June 16, 2014 2:27:21 PM UTC-4, rangerssuck wrote:





Suggest in the future that you buy plumbing supplies from a real plumbing supply store even if they are slightly more expensive as you will be supporting a local business who probably gives superior advice and service.



Show me a plumbing supplier who's open on Sunday (or even Saturday afternoon), and I'll be glad to go there.

A while back I made it a point to buy some pluming bit from a real plumbing supply store. I was surprised to find it was over twice as expensive as the same part at Lowes. Since I knew exactly what I wanted, I did not need the superior advice.

Since then I found out that Home Depot and Lowes gives me a 10% discount since I am a veteran.

Dan


Superior advice? I wish!

I have a new washing machine coming from HD. They do not come with
hoses. First "associate" advised me to buy a set of hoses for $23. I
went to look at them when a second "associate" told me not to buy them
as the company will not install them. He advised different hoses and
to buy them singly, $16 per hose. Could not explain why the price
difference (snotty "I only work here" response). Apparently the second
hose is made in Canada (web site says Taiwan but never mind) I had a
careful look at the hoses - no O-rings! This set bells off so I went
to another shop where they sold a different set of hoses, specifically
designed ("required") for HE machines - price a bit less than $30 for
a set. This HE business was not even discussed in HD. At least these
have O-rings. Now I am really twitchy and go to the local specialist
plumber store - they will know! There I was shown a single hose which
they apparently sell to everybody. Any enquiries re-previously
mentioned subjects were met with blank stare. Cost per hose - $16
(with O-rings :-)

Right now I am consulting an Ouija board...

Here is the end of the story: The machine arrived today *with* the
full complement of hoses. So neither of the associates knew their
product.

Fortunately I can take the others back for a full refund.

Michael Koblic,
Campbell River, BC
And you are somehow surprised???? Home Despot is not an appliance
shop. Never was, never will be.

On Monday, June 23, 2014 3:29:01 PM UTC-4, wrote:


Its tougher to convince heirs and heiresses and others of that kind of thing.



But its still good to know that at least labor unions have dominant power in most other leading nations.

You should read " American Steel ". It is about Nucor and how they went from near bankruptcy to being either the largest or second largest steel company in the U.S.

They of course mistreat their workers. Do things like never lay anyone off, and pay for employees kids college expenses.

Dan

Tom Gardner wrote:

Why feed the troll?


How would YOU test a new wood chipper?


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On Friday, June 27, 2014 4:55:29 PM UTC-7, Michael Terrell wrote:
Tom Gardner wrote:



Why feed the troll?





How would YOU test a new wood chipper?





--

Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to

have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.



---

This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.

http://www.avast.com


He'd do what he does best. He'd get drunk and dismember himself.

You fix those leaking roofs yet? :)

On Fri, 27 Jun 2014 19:55:29 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Tom Gardner wrote:

Why feed the troll?


How would YOU test a new wood chipper?

PLEASE post the video of that on YouTube, eh?

--
You can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore
the consequences of ignoring reality.
--Ayn Rand

First of all, I've always tried to avoid big box for plumbing supplies simply because they will always be out of something you need, and if time is money, you end up blowing the savings on second or third trip somewhere else.

I am now in Germany where we had basically five big box hardware chains. Now we have two. All of the little stores where you can get specialized stuff are long gone. Need a fine thread 10mm nut? You can forget it. Go to OBI (the German HD) for a few plumbing washers? You'll need to buy an assortment bag for ten bucks which maybe has two rings in it which are of any use to anyone. I once told a cashier "if this little bag is really worth ten bucks, then a car tire would cost more than a car."

But, Horror vacui (nature abhors a vacuum). Because of the market conditions, thousands of little Ebay stores have popped up providing us with what we need, and at reasonable prices. I now rarely go out to get things made of metal or plastic. The postman brings it to me. You guys have McMaster, which is great (no equivalent in Germany), but the model is still rather specialized. Partly, I suppose, because of high shipping costs, slowness, and unreliability of shipping in the US, and don't exclude car culture. I have plenty of friends who don't even drive.

When planning your next project, whatever it is, consider ordering all of the parts online. You need to plan a bit more carefully, but you might save some money, and especially lot's of time!

On Mon, 30 Jun 2014 04:22:46 -0700 (PDT), robobass
wrote:

First of all, I've always tried to avoid big box for plumbing supplies simply because they will always be out of something you need, and if time is money, you end up blowing the savings on second or third trip somewhere else.

I am now in Germany where we had basically five big box hardware chains. Now we have two. All of the little stores where you can get specialized stuff are long gone. Need a fine thread 10mm nut? You can forget it. Go to OBI (the German HD) for a few plumbing washers? You'll need to buy an assortment bag for ten bucks which maybe has two rings in it which are of any use to anyone. I once told a cashier "if this little bag is really worth ten bucks, then a car tire would cost more than a car."

But, Horror vacui (nature abhors a vacuum). Because of the market conditions, thousands of little Ebay stores have popped up providing us with what we need, and at reasonable prices. I now rarely go out to get things made of metal or plastic. The postman brings it to me. You guys have McMaster, which is great (no equivalent in Germany), but the model is still rather specialized. Partly, I suppose, because of high shipping costs, slowness, and unreliability of shipping in the US, and don't exclude car culture. I have plenty of friends who don't even drive.

When planning your next project, whatever it is, consider ordering all of the parts online. You need to plan a bit more carefully, but you might save some money, and especially lot's of time!
Over here in Canuk Land I find I can USUALLY buy locally for less
than online.

Case in point - I wanted a pair of "Cocoon" wear-over sun glasses.
Best online price, not including shipping, was $5 more than I could
buy them from local optician - with NO shipping. (Paid $35.00)

There are some things I just plain cannot buy locally - which I DO buy
online. Generally electronic parts or specialty bits. Auto parts I
can most often buy from the DEALER for less than online (things like
the step-plates for my 1996 Ford Ranger - dealer cost HALF what they
would cost online or from LMC.

On Monday, June 30, 2014 5:57:36 PM UTC+2, Clare wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jun 2014 04:22:46 -0700 (PDT), robobass


Over here in Canuk Land I find I can USUALLY buy locally for less

than online.



Case in point - I wanted a pair of "Cocoon" wear-over sun glasses.

Best online price, not including shipping, was $5 more than I could

buy them from local optician - with NO shipping. (Paid $35.00)



There are some things I just plain cannot buy locally - which I DO buy

online. Generally electronic parts or specialty bits. Auto parts I

can most often buy from the DEALER for less than online (things like

the step-plates for my 1996 Ford Ranger - dealer cost HALF what they

would cost online or from LMC.

Yes. What you can get online depends a lot on where you live. I think that in North America there are factors which make it slower to catch on, but I'm surprised to hear that you can get auto parts cheaper at the dealer. Not at all the case here, at least for my Alfa Romeo. In Germany there are maybe two major factors. First, we have fast and cheap shipping - I suppose that's partly down to shorter transit distances. And, a total lack of retail options. The retailers here seem bent on reducing choice to the bare minimum, and just don't seem to be trying to compete. "You want this toilet in gray? Well, let's see...I can get it for you in a month". I go online and can have it in two days and pay less. Car parts? There are nine million listings on German Ebay. 34,000 just for my specific model and year.