On 24 Oct 2013 03:27:31 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-10-23, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 23 Oct 2013 04:42:35 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-10-23, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 22 Oct 2013 21:58:52 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-10-22, KG wrote:
I have a problem holding thin aluminum, about .080", together for a period of 3 - 4
months in an outdoor environment. I have tried drilling and taping with # 8, 10, 12,
fine & course thread machine bolts, which last a few cycles then strip out. The force
needed is about 3 - 5 lb compression. I only have limited access to one side of the
joint. I'm now thinking of a finer thread screw such as drywall screws which are
designed for metal studs. Any thoughts or suggestions??

Lloyd, where is the part which says he wants to take them apart?

I saved a post and doubled up in this one, OK?

O.K. But no comment about the part quoted below where I
explained at least why *I* read it as implying semi-frequent
disassembly?

My mind read "thermal cycles", as in night/day changes, so I didn't
want to get into it. After rereading it a few times, I came to side
with you on that, too.


Where is Lloyd in this thread? (at least the part quoted here).
But I read the "which last a few cycles and then strip out" as implying
that it if fairly often removed and reassembled. (Removal/tightening
cycles of the screws.) Granted -- he may not have meant that, but then
again he may have.

[ ... ]

If there is space behind the plate, another option might be
Rivnuts. They fit into a drilled (and countersunk if need be) hole, are
drawn somewhat like pop rivets, and provide a much longer thread.

I bought one of the HF gun kits and used it on my '91 F-150 doors to
hold the trailer mirrors on. Worked like champs for years, and AFAIK,
are still working. For $17, you cannot go wrong. Maybe he can use one
of them.

http://www.harborfreight.com/45-piec...-kit-1210.html

I *think* that those are Rivnuts stood on their heads and
photographed from nearly straight above, so it is hard to see for sure,
particularly with the rather low resolution in the photo.

Yeah, they're nuts with shoulders/collars built in. You drill the hole
and put the nut through it, then when you pull the trigger, it
collapses the shoulder around the hole and secures the nut. Unscrew
the tool and you're done.

Yes. The "Nutserts" are two-part items, in which the threaded
part expands an outer collar -- in contrast to a "Rivnut" which is a
single piece and which has a part thinner which expands to hold it
firmly in place.

HF's jobs are real (knockoff) rivnuts, then.


The old rivnuts we used at Southcom were swaged in from behind. Those
had angled shoulders which the nut itself filled in when it was
swaged.

Yet another style -- and not matching the Rivnuts as originally
made and sold by B.F. Goodrich -- the ones who own(ed) the "Rivnut"
name.

OK. Those I inspected with were very thin, maybe 1.5-2 threads, max.
I had fun as a QA inspector until I took it into my entire life.
Everything became go/nogo and it damnear kilt me, increasing my
already far too high intake of alcohol. I'm glad I was able to walk
away from both. I sure learned a lot there, though.


[ ... ]

As for the HF set -- I don't *ever* consider only ten of each
size to be useful -- even assuming that you get it right the first time
so you don't have to drill one or two out. Personally, I consider a lot
of 100 of a given size a better starting point. :-)

I used 3 and have had the set for 20 years since, so I'm fine with the
smaller sets. If it was something I used weekly, yes, sets of 100
would be a good thing.

O.K. I sometimes use twenty on a single project.

I've been surprised that I haven't needed/used more of them, too.
You'll be happy to hear that replacements are sold in bags of 100.


The tool shown in the auction above has to be adjusted for both the
size of the Rivnut, and the thickness of the sheet metal into which it
is being installed. Get it too loose, and the Rivnut will turn
(especially if you have the ones without the key), and get it too tight
and you strip out the threads. I don't see provisions on the HF tool to
make such adjustments, though they may exist.

Thread the tool's screw back in and give it another OOMPH! ?

If it did not draw in fully -- but not very useful if you strip
out the threads by over-drawing. :-)

True, but with all those threads, it's less likely. I'd also likely
try swaging with a small chisel around the squozen side to keep it
from rotating. Back up the nut onto something solid and tap the
chisel down perpendicular to the axis in a few places around the
threaded area...
|
-0- (but tighter to the hole)
|


[ ... ]

Anti-seize is cheap.

If you can get enough of it to prevent corrosion forming, and
keep it there, yes.

I don't recall having any trouble with any screw or spark plug I put
a/s on, ever. I've had one tube of aluminum-based a/s for 35 years
now and it's going strong. I don't do much with aluminum, so maybe
that makes a difference. It works well on s/s to steel, steel to
steel, and steel to aluminum head (spark plugs), though.

But that is a much thicker piece of aluminum, thick enough to
have a number of threads engaging -- not the one or two threads which
would happen with the aluminum thickness described in the original post
(0.080"). A 12.5 TPI (2mm pitch) screw would only get one thread in the
metal. 32 TPI (e.g. 6-32, 8-32 or 10-32 to name common ones which I
believe the OP mentioned) would only have 1.6 threads in the aluminum
sheet.

Isn't that why we're suggesting rivnuts? To get away from the
single-thread security? But I was thinking in terms of the rivnuts
rather than a single sheet. I probably wouldn't keep anything around
which broke so often, reengineering it to a higher performance the
second time it died, if not the first. Aren't we all wired that way?
g (Here on Wreck.Metalheads, anyway.)


Where have you had trouble with a/s?

I haven't -- but I've also not used it to try to prevent
corrosion in a very shallow thread engagement. I would think that it
would be more likely to wash out (in a rainy environment) -- especially
if he keeps removing and re-installing the screws. :-)

You're most likely right.

--
Worry is a misuse of imagination.
-- Dan Zadra

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On 24 Oct 2013 03:27:31 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2013-10-23, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On 23 Oct 2013 04:42:35 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2013-10-23, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On 22 Oct 2013 21:58:52 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2013-10-22, KG wrote:
I have a problem holding thin aluminum, about .080", together
for a period of 3 - 4
months in an outdoor environment. I have tried drilling and
taping with # 8, 10, 12,


Where have you had trouble with a/s?

I haven't -- but I've also not used it to try to prevent
corrosion in a very shallow thread engagement. I would think that
it
would be more likely to wash out (in a rainy environment) --
especially
if he keeps removing and re-installing the screws. :-)

You're most likely right.

Aluminum Poprivet threaded inserts and SS screws have held parts of my
gutters together for at least 15 years. I remove the screws when I
clean it out, several times a year, and haven't noticed any
deterioration.
jsw

On 2013-10-24, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 24 Oct 2013 03:27:31 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-10-23, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 23 Oct 2013 04:42:35 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

[ ... ]

O.K. But no comment about the part quoted below where I
explained at least why *I* read it as implying semi-frequent
disassembly?

My mind read "thermal cycles", as in night/day changes, so I didn't
want to get into it. After rereading it a few times, I came to side
with you on that, too.

And we now have, elsewhere in this thread, an explanation of
just what the situation is. (I read that last night after posting the
previous article.)

[ ... ]

I bought one of the HF gun kits and used it on my '91 F-150 doors to
hold the trailer mirrors on. Worked like champs for years, and AFAIK,
are still working. For $17, you cannot go wrong. Maybe he can use one
of them.

http://www.harborfreight.com/45-piec...-kit-1210.html

[ ... ]

Yes. The "Nutserts" are two-part items, in which the threaded
part expands an outer collar -- in contrast to a "Rivnut" which is a
single piece and which has a part thinner which expands to hold it
firmly in place.

HF's jobs are real (knockoff) rivnuts, then.

Just very poorly photographed, then. :-)

I spent some time buying Rivnuts and Rivnut tools from eBay
auctions, and people there seem to toss "Rivnut" and "Nutsert" in
interchangeably in the same auction. Trying to maximize the numbber of
hits, I guess. :-)

The old rivnuts we used at Southcom were swaged in from behind. Those
had angled shoulders which the nut itself filled in when it was
swaged.

Yet another style -- and not matching the Rivnuts as originally
made and sold by B.F. Goodrich -- the ones who own(ed) the "Rivnut"
name.

OK. Those I inspected with were very thin, maybe 1.5-2 threads, max.
I had fun as a QA inspector until I took it into my entire life.
Everything became go/nogo and it damnear kilt me, increasing my
already far too high intake of alcohol. I'm glad I was able to walk
away from both. I sure learned a lot there, though.

Glad that you were able to walk away from both. Always
remember, "Perfect is the enemy of good enough."

My first experience with the Rivnuts and the tooling was when I
worked for a company which built (among many other things) flight
simulators. That was also where I first experienced *proper* crimp
terminals and tooling. :-)

But I wasn't in the position of having to inspect things, though
I learned that the proper crimpers left one or two raised dots on the
crimped area, depending on the size, so an inspector could tell whether
the right tooling had been used on the terminals (where the color
defined the size). Off by two sizes (and thus back to the proper number
of dots) the mismatch was *extremely* obvious.

[ ... ]

I used 3 and have had the set for 20 years since, so I'm fine with the
smaller sets. If it was something I used weekly, yes, sets of 100
would be a good thing.

O.K. I sometimes use twenty on a single project.

I've been surprised that I haven't needed/used more of them, too.
You'll be happy to hear that replacements are sold in bags of 100.

That is good news.

The tool shown in the auction above has to be adjusted for both the
size of the Rivnut, and the thickness of the sheet metal into which it
is being installed. Get it too loose, and the Rivnut will turn
(especially if you have the ones without the key), and get it too tight
and you strip out the threads. I don't see provisions on the HF tool to
make such adjustments, though they may exist.

Thread the tool's screw back in and give it another OOMPH! ?

If it did not draw in fully -- but not very useful if you strip
out the threads by over-drawing. :-)

True, but with all those threads, it's less likely.

But the compound leverage of the *proper* tool can strip the
threads out of the 6-32 and 8-32 at least. The rest against which the
Rivnut is pulled is threaded on the OD, and can be adjusted to give just
the right degree of crimp -- for a single style of Rivnut, and a single
thickness of metal. Change either (or both) and you have to re-adjust.
Makes them a lot better for repeating jobs than for one or two Rivnut
insertions.

I've got the lever tools for 4-40 through 1-4/20, some wrench
and Allen key tools for 8-32, 10-32, and 1/4-20, and a hand-pumped
hydraulic tool for all the sizes, and both the aluminum Rivnuts, and the
steel ones. No way the lever style tool would do 1/4-20 in steel.

I'd also likely
try swaging with a small chisel around the squozen side to keep it
from rotating. Back up the nut onto something solid and tap the
chisel down perpendicular to the axis in a few places around the
threaded area...
|
-0- (but tighter to the hole)
|


Well ... since it turns out that he is putting these in hollow
extrusions as part of sliding-door frames, there is no real way that he
could get to the backside to stake them as above.

However -- there are plain Rivnuts, and Rivnuts with keys (a
raised radial part on the underside of the flange or the underside of
the countersink head). There is a related tool to the lever insertion
tool to cut the notch for these. With these (and proper assembly) there
is no way they would spin once installed.

[ ... ]

Anti-seize is cheap.

If you can get enough of it to prevent corrosion forming, and
keep it there, yes.

I don't recall having any trouble with any screw or spark plug I put
a/s on, ever. I've had one tube of aluminum-based a/s for 35 years
now and it's going strong. I don't do much with aluminum, so maybe
that makes a difference. It works well on s/s to steel, steel to
steel, and steel to aluminum head (spark plugs), though.


But that is a much thicker piece of aluminum, thick enough to
have a number of threads engaging -- not the one or two threads which
would happen with the aluminum thickness described in the original post
(0.080"). A 12.5 TPI (2mm pitch) screw would only get one thread in the
metal. 32 TPI (e.g. 6-32, 8-32 or 10-32 to name common ones which I
believe the OP mentioned) would only have 1.6 threads in the aluminum
sheet.

Isn't that why we're suggesting rivnuts? To get away from the
single-thread security?

Yes. But you were mentioning the anti-sieze on spark plug
threads, which can't be that thin. :-)

But I was thinking in terms of the rivnuts
rather than a single sheet. I probably wouldn't keep anything around
which broke so often, reengineering it to a higher performance the
second time it died, if not the first. Aren't we all wired that way?
g (Here on Wreck.Metalheads, anyway.)

Yep -- but some things are harder to re-do, especially if they
are commercially installed metal-framed sliding doors (as is the case
here). Hard to get new extrusions of the proper thickness for tapping
and still of the proper outside dimensions, and also if you replaced
them with solid bar milled to the necessary shape, they would be a lot
heavier than the tracks were made to handle.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 25 Oct 2013 02:09:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-10-24, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 24 Oct 2013 03:27:31 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-10-23, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 23 Oct 2013 04:42:35 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

[ ... ]

O.K. But no comment about the part quoted below where I
explained at least why *I* read it as implying semi-frequent
disassembly?

My mind read "thermal cycles", as in night/day changes, so I didn't
want to get into it. After rereading it a few times, I came to side
with you on that, too.

And we now have, elsewhere in this thread, an explanation of
just what the situation is. (I read that last night after posting the
previous article.)

Yeah, 99.9% of the time, the OP forgets to include about 90% of the
detail needed which would get them a -good- answer the -first- time.
sigh



[ ... ]

I bought one of the HF gun kits and used it on my '91 F-150 doors to
hold the trailer mirrors on. Worked like champs for years, and AFAIK,
are still working. For $17, you cannot go wrong. Maybe he can use one
of them.

http://www.harborfreight.com/45-piec...-kit-1210.html

[ ... ]

Yes. The "Nutserts" are two-part items, in which the threaded
part expands an outer collar -- in contrast to a "Rivnut" which is a
single piece and which has a part thinner which expands to hold it
firmly in place.

HF's jobs are real (knockoff) rivnuts, then.

Just very poorly photographed, then. :-)

You expect otherwise in today's life? Half the pics I see lately were
taken by gasp damned cellphones by their overcaffeinated owners.
'sCriminal, it is.


I spent some time buying Rivnuts and Rivnut tools from eBay
auctions, and people there seem to toss "Rivnut" and "Nutsert" in
interchangeably in the same auction. Trying to maximize the numbber of
hits, I guess. :-)

The old rivnuts we used at Southcom were swaged in from behind. Those
had angled shoulders which the nut itself filled in when it was
swaged.

Yet another style -- and not matching the Rivnuts as originally
made and sold by B.F. Goodrich -- the ones who own(ed) the "Rivnut"
name.

OK. Those I inspected with were very thin, maybe 1.5-2 threads, max.
I had fun as a QA inspector until I took it into my entire life.
Everything became go/nogo and it damnear kilt me, increasing my
already far too high intake of alcohol. I'm glad I was able to walk
away from both. I sure learned a lot there, though.

Glad that you were able to walk away from both. Always
remember, "Perfect is the enemy of good enough."

Thanks, and I agree.


My first experience with the Rivnuts and the tooling was when I
worked for a company which built (among many other things) flight
simulators. That was also where I first experienced *proper* crimp
terminals and tooling. :-)

It's amazing how well proper tools and crimprings work, isn't it?


But I wasn't in the position of having to inspect things, though
I learned that the proper crimpers left one or two raised dots on the
crimped area, depending on the size, so an inspector could tell whether
the right tooling had been used on the terminals (where the color
defined the size). Off by two sizes (and thus back to the proper number
of dots) the mismatch was *extremely* obvious.

BTDT.


[ ... ]

I used 3 and have had the set for 20 years since, so I'm fine with the
smaller sets. If it was something I used weekly, yes, sets of 100
would be a good thing.

O.K. I sometimes use twenty on a single project.

I've been surprised that I haven't needed/used more of them, too.
You'll be happy to hear that replacements are sold in bags of 100.

That is good news.

With 4 or 5 sizes being included in the original kit, having 100ea of
the nuts would have at least doubled the kit price. And most people
will use just one or two sizes the most frequently, so I think they
did the right thing.


The tool shown in the auction above has to be adjusted for both the
size of the Rivnut, and the thickness of the sheet metal into which it
is being installed. Get it too loose, and the Rivnut will turn
(especially if you have the ones without the key), and get it too tight
and you strip out the threads. I don't see provisions on the HF tool to
make such adjustments, though they may exist.

Thread the tool's screw back in and give it another OOMPH! ?

If it did not draw in fully -- but not very useful if you strip
out the threads by over-drawing. :-)

True, but with all those threads, it's less likely.

But the compound leverage of the *proper* tool can strip the
threads out of the 6-32 and 8-32 at least. The rest against which the
Rivnut is pulled is threaded on the OD, and can be adjusted to give just
the right degree of crimp -- for a single style of Rivnut, and a single
thickness of metal. Change either (or both) and you have to re-adjust.
Makes them a lot better for repeating jobs than for one or two Rivnut
insertions.

Yes, I suppose you're right. But it's as much the tool user as it is
the tool, IMHO. Big JoeBob can easily strip any size nut while little
JoAnn can't crimp the little ones hard enough.


I've got the lever tools for 4-40 through 1-4/20, some wrench
and Allen key tools for 8-32, 10-32, and 1/4-20, and a hand-pumped
hydraulic tool for all the sizes, and both the aluminum Rivnuts, and the
steel ones. No way the lever style tool would do 1/4-20 in steel.

I'd also likely
try swaging with a small chisel around the squozen side to keep it
from rotating. Back up the nut onto something solid and tap the
chisel down perpendicular to the axis in a few places around the
threaded area...
|
-0- (but tighter to the hole)
|


Well ... since it turns out that he is putting these in hollow
extrusions as part of sliding-door frames, there is no real way that he
could get to the backside to stake them as above.

True. Yes, "stake" was the term I searched for and missed, thanks.


However -- there are plain Rivnuts, and Rivnuts with keys (a
raised radial part on the underside of the flange or the underside of
the countersink head). There is a related tool to the lever insertion
tool to cut the notch for these. With these (and proper assembly) there
is no way they would spin once installed.

[ ... ]

Anti-seize is cheap.

If you can get enough of it to prevent corrosion forming, and
keep it there, yes.

I don't recall having any trouble with any screw or spark plug I put
a/s on, ever. I've had one tube of aluminum-based a/s for 35 years
now and it's going strong. I don't do much with aluminum, so maybe
that makes a difference. It works well on s/s to steel, steel to
steel, and steel to aluminum head (spark plugs), though.


But that is a much thicker piece of aluminum, thick enough to
have a number of threads engaging -- not the one or two threads which
would happen with the aluminum thickness described in the original post
(0.080"). A 12.5 TPI (2mm pitch) screw would only get one thread in the
metal. 32 TPI (e.g. 6-32, 8-32 or 10-32 to name common ones which I
believe the OP mentioned) would only have 1.6 threads in the aluminum
sheet.

Isn't that why we're suggesting rivnuts? To get away from the
single-thread security?

Yes. But you were mentioning the anti-sieze on spark plug
threads, which can't be that thin. :-)

Yeah, I used small amounts on those and fingers to even it out,
wetting all the threads with it while taking off the excess. Nary a
problem. Boy, were those easier to remove the next time, though!


But I was thinking in terms of the rivnuts
rather than a single sheet. I probably wouldn't keep anything around
which broke so often, reengineering it to a higher performance the
second time it died, if not the first. Aren't we all wired that way?
g (Here on Wreck.Metalheads, anyway.)

Yep -- but some things are harder to re-do, especially if they
are commercially installed metal-framed sliding doors (as is the case
here). Hard to get new extrusions of the proper thickness for tapping
and still of the proper outside dimensions, and also if you replaced
them with solid bar milled to the necessary shape, they would be a lot
heavier than the tracks were made to handle.

Verily.

Ciao!

--
The beauty of the 2nd Amendment is that it will not be needed
until they try to take it. --Thomas Jefferson

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
...
Yeah, 99.9% of the time, the OP forgets to include about 90% of the
detail needed which would get them a -good- answer the -first- time.
sigh


If they could properly define the problem they might not need to ask
for help.
jsw

"Jim Wilkins"
wrote in message "Larry Jaques"
wrote in message
...
Yeah, 99.9% of the time, the OP forgets to
include about 90% of the
detail needed which would get them a -good-
answer the -first- time.
sigh


If they could properly define the problem they
might not need to ask for help.
jsw


Or use JBWeld Quick when you don't have time to
wait!
I hate that ****. Guys try it to fix an aluminum
part then want it welded. That stuff makes the
most
toxic horrible fumes you can imagine! I charge an
automatic $20 fee because they used it and now I
have
to remove it...... :(}

On 2013-10-25, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 25 Oct 2013 02:09:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[ ... ]

And we now have, elsewhere in this thread, an explanation of
just what the situation is. (I read that last night after posting the
previous article.)

Yeah, 99.9% of the time, the OP forgets to include about 90% of the
detail needed which would get them a -good- answer the -first- time.
sigh

Yep.

http://www.harborfreight.com/45-piec...-kit-1210.html

[ ... ]

HF's jobs are real (knockoff) rivnuts, then.

Just very poorly photographed, then. :-)

You expect otherwise in today's life? Half the pics I see lately were
taken by gasp damned cellphones by their overcaffeinated owners.
'sCriminal, it is.

:-)

If they had just photographed from a bit more of an angle, to
show the shape of the Rivnuts, it would have been a big help. The tool
could also be used with Nutserts, however. Just a bit different amount
of crimp travel.

[ ... ]

OK. Those I inspected with were very thin, maybe 1.5-2 threads, max.
I had fun as a QA inspector until I took it into my entire life.
Everything became go/nogo and it damnear kilt me, increasing my
already far too high intake of alcohol. I'm glad I was able to walk
away from both. I sure learned a lot there, though.

Glad that you were able to walk away from both. Always
remember, "Perfect is the enemy of good enough."

Thanks, and I agree.

I've experienced the too high alcohol intake problem in a
family member (who is no longer with us.)

My first experience with the Rivnuts and the tooling was when I
worked for a company which built (among many other things) flight
simulators. That was also where I first experienced *proper* crimp
terminals and tooling. :-)

It's amazing how well proper tools and crimprings work, isn't it?

Yep. Just as though they were *designed* to do a good job. :-)

But I wasn't in the position of having to inspect things, though
I learned that the proper crimpers left one or two raised dots on the
crimped area, depending on the size, so an inspector could tell whether
the right tooling had been used on the terminals (where the color
defined the size). Off by two sizes (and thus back to the proper number
of dots) the mismatch was *extremely* obvious.

BTDT.

As an inspector, I'll bet.

[ ... HF Rivnut set ... ]

With 4 or 5 sizes being included in the original kit, having 100ea of
the nuts would have at least doubled the kit price. And most people
will use just one or two sizes the most frequently, so I think they
did the right thing.

Probably so. I know that in crimp terminal sets, I commonly use
red (22-18 ga), Blue (16-14), and Yellow (12-10), and occasionally small
yellow (28-24 IIRC), along which much less frequent (and not to be found
in most kits) Red (8), Blue (6), and I have crimpers and a few examples
of Yellow (4), Red (2), Blue (0), Yellow (2-0), red (3-0) and blue (4-0)
all of those with hydraulic crimp heads. The small yellow are also not
in the kits. But there are *never* enough crimp terminals in the kits
to even finish a typical project. (Not to mention not enough of a given
ring size or forked terminal size to cover the project, either. And I
expect the same from Rivnut kits. Occasionally, I've found boxes of
1000 of a given size, like 6-32. But for many years, I've had a few of
a given size, and had to scrimp on where I used them.

The tool shown in the auction above has to be adjusted for both the
size of the Rivnut, and the thickness of the sheet metal into which it
is being installed. Get it too loose, and the Rivnut will turn
(especially if you have the ones without the key), and get it too tight
and you strip out the threads. I don't see provisions on the HF tool to
make such adjustments, though they may exist.

Thread the tool's screw back in and give it another OOMPH! ?

If it did not draw in fully -- but not very useful if you strip
out the threads by over-drawing. :-)

True, but with all those threads, it's less likely.

But the compound leverage of the *proper* tool can strip the
threads out of the 6-32 and 8-32 at least. The rest against which the
Rivnut is pulled is threaded on the OD, and can be adjusted to give just
the right degree of crimp -- for a single style of Rivnut, and a single
thickness of metal. Change either (or both) and you have to re-adjust.
Makes them a lot better for repeating jobs than for one or two Rivnut
insertions.

Yes, I suppose you're right. But it's as much the tool user as it is
the tool, IMHO. Big JoeBob can easily strip any size nut while little
JoAnn can't crimp the little ones hard enough.

Well ... the lever tools from B.F.Goodrich were designed to
bottom easily, and if you first set the nose projection properly, nobody
could squeeze it too hard, because the 1/3 round handle would nest
against the fully-round handle. The leverage was over-center at that
point, so it did not take a strong operator, and it could not be
over-done. On the crimper in the HF kit (as well as many sold on eBay),
I don't see any such travel limit, so over-tightening is too likely.
(But it may not have enough leverage to make that easy. :-)

Ideally, someone else (who knows what s/he is doing, sets the
projection of the nose on the tools for a particular project, and then
the assembly people just put each Rivnut in properly without trouble.
(Another reason for having spares is to get the tool set just right,
which requires a few test rivets to be expended. :-)

[ ... ]

Well ... since it turns out that he is putting these in hollow
extrusions as part of sliding-door frames, there is no real way that he
could get to the backside to stake them as above.

True. Yes, "stake" was the term I searched for and missed, thanks.

So -- countersunk Rivnuts with the anti-rotation key -- and the
corresponding notching tool.

[ ... ]

But that is a much thicker piece of aluminum, thick enough to
have a number of threads engaging -- not the one or two threads which
would happen with the aluminum thickness described in the original post
(0.080"). A 12.5 TPI (2mm pitch) screw would only get one thread in the
metal. 32 TPI (e.g. 6-32, 8-32 or 10-32 to name common ones which I
believe the OP mentioned) would only have 1.6 threads in the aluminum
sheet.

Isn't that why we're suggesting rivnuts? To get away from the
single-thread security?

Yes. But you were mentioning the anti-sieze on spark plug
threads, which can't be that thin. :-)

Yeah, I used small amounts on those and fingers to even it out,
wetting all the threads with it while taking off the excess. Nary a
problem. Boy, were those easier to remove the next time, though!

I used the anti-sieze on the plugs in my MGA, which was fairly
difficult to get to. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 26 Oct 2013 04:04:43 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-10-25, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 25 Oct 2013 02:09:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[ ... ]

And we now have, elsewhere in this thread, an explanation of
just what the situation is. (I read that last night after posting the
previous article.)

Yeah, 99.9% of the time, the OP forgets to include about 90% of the
detail needed which would get them a -good- answer the -first- time.
sigh

Yep.

http://www.harborfreight.com/45-piec...-kit-1210.html

[ ... ]

HF's jobs are real (knockoff) rivnuts, then.

Just very poorly photographed, then. :-)

You expect otherwise in today's life? Half the pics I see lately were
taken by gasp damned cellphones by their overcaffeinated owners.
'sCriminal, it is.

:-)

If they had just photographed from a bit more of an angle, to
show the shape of the Rivnuts, it would have been a big help. The tool
could also be used with Nutserts, however. Just a bit different amount
of crimp travel.

Low budget photog.


[ ... ]

OK. Those I inspected with were very thin, maybe 1.5-2 threads, max.
I had fun as a QA inspector until I took it into my entire life.
Everything became go/nogo and it damnear kilt me, increasing my
already far too high intake of alcohol. I'm glad I was able to walk
away from both. I sure learned a lot there, though.

Glad that you were able to walk away from both. Always
remember, "Perfect is the enemy of good enough."

Thanks, and I agree.

I've experienced the too high alcohol intake problem in a
family member (who is no longer with us.)

Ours, too. One aunt, an alky who I dearly loved, accidentally shot
her husband who had broken into the bathroom where she was going to
commit suicide. She accomplished it a week later. Sad.


My first experience with the Rivnuts and the tooling was when I
worked for a company which built (among many other things) flight
simulators. That was also where I first experienced *proper* crimp
terminals and tooling. :-)

It's amazing how well proper tools and crimprings work, isn't it?

Yep. Just as though they were *designed* to do a good job. :-)

Yeah, almost, huh?


But I wasn't in the position of having to inspect things, though
I learned that the proper crimpers left one or two raised dots on the
crimped area, depending on the size, so an inspector could tell whether
the right tooling had been used on the terminals (where the color
defined the size). Off by two sizes (and thus back to the proper number
of dots) the mismatch was *extremely* obvious.

BTDT.

As an inspector, I'll bet.

[ ... HF Rivnut set ... ]

With 4 or 5 sizes being included in the original kit, having 100ea of
the nuts would have at least doubled the kit price. And most people
will use just one or two sizes the most frequently, so I think they
did the right thing.

Probably so. I know that in crimp terminal sets, I commonly use
red (22-18 ga), Blue (16-14), and Yellow (12-10), and occasionally small
yellow (28-24 IIRC), along which much less frequent (and not to be found
in most kits) Red (8), Blue (6), and I have crimpers and a few examples
of Yellow (4), Red (2), Blue (0), Yellow (2-0), red (3-0) and blue (4-0)
all of those with hydraulic crimp heads. The small yellow are also not
in the kits. But there are *never* enough crimp terminals in the kits
to even finish a typical project. (Not to mention not enough of a given
ring size or forked terminal size to cover the project, either. And I
expect the same from Rivnut kits. Occasionally, I've found boxes of
1000 of a given size, like 6-32. But for many years, I've had a few of
a given size, and had to scrimp on where I used them.

I've done my share of balling up thin wire, putting in a few drips of
solder, and making the 20ga wire fit the 10ga connector when the
proper terminal wasn't available.


The tool shown in the auction above has to be adjusted for both the
size of the Rivnut, and the thickness of the sheet metal into which it
is being installed. Get it too loose, and the Rivnut will turn
(especially if you have the ones without the key), and get it too tight
and you strip out the threads. I don't see provisions on the HF tool to
make such adjustments, though they may exist.

Thread the tool's screw back in and give it another OOMPH! ?

If it did not draw in fully -- but not very useful if you strip
out the threads by over-drawing. :-)

True, but with all those threads, it's less likely.

But the compound leverage of the *proper* tool can strip the
threads out of the 6-32 and 8-32 at least. The rest against which the
Rivnut is pulled is threaded on the OD, and can be adjusted to give just
the right degree of crimp -- for a single style of Rivnut, and a single
thickness of metal. Change either (or both) and you have to re-adjust.
Makes them a lot better for repeating jobs than for one or two Rivnut
insertions.

Yes, I suppose you're right. But it's as much the tool user as it is
the tool, IMHO. Big JoeBob can easily strip any size nut while little
JoAnn can't crimp the little ones hard enough.

Well ... the lever tools from B.F.Goodrich were designed to
bottom easily, and if you first set the nose projection properly, nobody
could squeeze it too hard, because the 1/3 round handle would nest
against the fully-round handle. The leverage was over-center at that
point, so it did not take a strong operator, and it could not be
over-done. On the crimper in the HF kit (as well as many sold on eBay),
I don't see any such travel limit, so over-tightening is too likely.
(But it may not have enough leverage to make that easy. :-)

I 'spect you're right.


Ideally, someone else (who knows what s/he is doing, sets the
projection of the nose on the tools for a particular project, and then
the assembly people just put each Rivnut in properly without trouble.
(Another reason for having spares is to get the tool set just right,
which requires a few test rivets to be expended. :-)

Nah, not if you're GOOD. polishes fingernails on chest


[ ... ]

Well ... since it turns out that he is putting these in hollow
extrusions as part of sliding-door frames, there is no real way that he
could get to the backside to stake them as above.

True. Yes, "stake" was the term I searched for and missed, thanks.

So -- countersunk Rivnuts with the anti-rotation key -- and the
corresponding notching tool.

[ ... ]

But that is a much thicker piece of aluminum, thick enough to
have a number of threads engaging -- not the one or two threads which
would happen with the aluminum thickness described in the original post
(0.080"). A 12.5 TPI (2mm pitch) screw would only get one thread in the
metal. 32 TPI (e.g. 6-32, 8-32 or 10-32 to name common ones which I
believe the OP mentioned) would only have 1.6 threads in the aluminum
sheet.

Isn't that why we're suggesting rivnuts? To get away from the
single-thread security?

Yes. But you were mentioning the anti-sieze on spark plug
threads, which can't be that thin. :-)

Yeah, I used small amounts on those and fingers to even it out,
wetting all the threads with it while taking off the excess. Nary a
problem. Boy, were those easier to remove the next time, though!

I used the anti-sieze on the plugs in my MGA, which was fairly
difficult to get to. :-)

I rode in an MGTD to the QA job we were talking about. There was a
gaping hole in the floorboard on the passenger side which made rainy
days interesting. I'm sure glad we didn't live in England at the
time. SoCal was bad enough. Heck, it got down to 40 there sometimes,
in the middle of winter!

Knowing what I know now, I'd have helped him fit and weld in a new
floorboard.

--
The beauty of the 2nd Amendment is that it will not be needed
until they try to take it. --Thomas Jefferson

On 2013-10-26, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 26 Oct 2013 04:04:43 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-10-25, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 25 Oct 2013 02:09:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[ ... HF Rivnut tool (sorta) ... ]

Just very poorly photographed, then. :-)

You expect otherwise in today's life? Half the pics I see lately were
taken by gasp damned cellphones by their overcaffeinated owners.
'sCriminal, it is.

:-)

If they had just photographed from a bit more of an angle, to
show the shape of the Rivnuts, it would have been a big help. The tool
could also be used with Nutserts, however. Just a bit different amount
of crimp travel.

Low budget photog.

Low budget, and nobody present who knew what angle of view would
give the customer information which s/he needs. (But then again, isn't
that HF's basic principle of operation? :-)

If *I* had been photographing it, I would have included one
photo showing the side view of a brand new Rivnut sitting beside one
which had just been crimped (without the sheet metal to obscure the
view), so people could see how it is supposed to work. :-)

[ ... ]

Glad that you were able to walk away from both. Always
remember, "Perfect is the enemy of good enough."

Thanks, and I agree.

I've experienced the too high alcohol intake problem in a
family member (who is no longer with us.)

Ours, too. One aunt, an alky who I dearly loved, accidentally shot
her husband who had broken into the bathroom where she was going to
commit suicide. She accomplished it a week later. Sad.

Ouch! Accidentally? She was going to use the gun to commit
suicide? And when he broke in, he startled her enough so the weapon
discharged?

In the case I mentioned, there were no firearms present. She
fell and broke a hip, then bailed out of the rehab place early so she
could get home to her alcohol and tobacco.

Later, in the nursing home, she re-broke the hip, and when on the
operating table that time, her heart stopped and was restarted, but
there was no brain function left. The heart kept running for another
week and a half.

[ ... switch over to crimp tool from Rivnuts ... ]

Probably so. I know that in crimp terminal sets, I commonly use
red (22-18 ga), Blue (16-14), and Yellow (12-10), and occasionally small
yellow (28-24 IIRC), along which much less frequent (and not to be found
in most kits) Red (8), Blue (6), and I have crimpers and a few examples
of Yellow (4), Red (2), Blue (0), Yellow (2-0), red (3-0) and blue (4-0)
all of those with hydraulic crimp heads. The small yellow are also not
in the kits. But there are *never* enough crimp terminals in the kits
to even finish a typical project. (Not to mention not enough of a given
ring size or forked terminal size to cover the project, either. And I
expect the same from Rivnut kits. Occasionally, I've found boxes of
1000 of a given size, like 6-32. But for many years, I've had a few of
a given size, and had to scrimp on where I used them.

I've done my share of balling up thin wire, putting in a few drips of
solder, and making the 20ga wire fit the 10ga connector when the
proper terminal wasn't available.

Since the standards for military projects allow two or three
smaller wires in a larger terminal, you can get away with folding a wire
double or triple before crimping. I've been known to do that. One of
the reasons why I like to have the small yellow (26-22 ga without
checking what is stamped on the crimpers. (I Just took a set of them
downstairs to the electronics shop earlier today, so I can't *easily*
check. (But the red ones sort of vary -- the older crimpers are marked
22-16 Ga, but later ones and later terminals are marked 22-18 Ga --
eliminating the overlap with the next size up (blue).

[ ... Back to Rivnuts .. ]

Ideally, someone else (who knows what s/he is doing, sets the
projection of the nose on the tools for a particular project, and then
the assembly people just put each Rivnut in properly without trouble.
(Another reason for having spares is to get the tool set just right,
which requires a few test rivets to be expended. :-)

Nah, not if you're GOOD. polishes fingernails on chest

Maybe -- but I know that I sometimes need to try a couple,
especially if it has been a while since I last used it, and don't
remember what thickness metal it was set for, and what grip range
Rivnut, too. :-)

[ ... and Anti-seize ... ]

I used the anti-seize on the plugs in my MGA, which was fairly
difficult to get to. :-)

I rode in an MGTD to the QA job we were talking about. There was a
gaping hole in the floorboard on the passenger side which made rainy
days interesting. I'm sure glad we didn't live in England at the
time. SoCal was bad enough. Heck, it got down to 40 there sometimes,
in the middle of winter!

Knowing what I know now, I'd have helped him fit and weld in a new
floorboard.

Hmm ... that would to have worked for the MGA. The foorboards
are plywood, screwed down over lips on the trans tunnel, and into welded
on nuts on the bottom of the raill, where they could rust in place.

The manual had you pull the seats, floorboards, and trans tunnel
to access changing the clutch. I did it that way *once*, and then
figured out how to do it leaving all of that in there.

And -- on my first one (a '57) -- someone before had replaced
the official rear hanger for the muffler with a standard US one, which
broke, bowing the exhaust tube up into contact with the plywood, which
charred and sent an undesirable smell into the cockpit. Luckily, this
was winter, and I pulled off and dumped some handfuls of snow on it,
then I smashed a tin can flat and put it between the pipe and the
floorboard, so I could get home and fix it *right*. :-) (I went to the
local dealer and bought the proper support bracket -- and I think that
was the only Whitworth hardware on the car. I had to use a crescent
wrench on it. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 27 Oct 2013 04:02:41 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-10-26, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 26 Oct 2013 04:04:43 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-10-25, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 25 Oct 2013 02:09:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[ ... HF Rivnut tool (sorta) ... ]

Just very poorly photographed, then. :-)

You expect otherwise in today's life? Half the pics I see lately were
taken by gasp damned cellphones by their overcaffeinated owners.
'sCriminal, it is.

:-)

If they had just photographed from a bit more of an angle, to
show the shape of the Rivnuts, it would have been a big help. The tool
could also be used with Nutserts, however. Just a bit different amount
of crimp travel.

Low budget photog.

Low budget, and nobody present who knew what angle of view would
give the customer information which s/he needs. (But then again, isn't
that HF's basic principle of operation? :-)

I think you could apply that to the vast majority of bidnesses alive
today. They saved money by doing it in-house, using clueless morons
who get minimum wage. "Why are my customers bailing?" they whine.
C'est la guerre, oui?


If *I* had been photographing it, I would have included one
photo showing the side view of a brand new Rivnut sitting beside one
which had just been crimped (without the sheet metal to obscure the
view), so people could see how it is supposed to work. :-)

[ ... ]

Glad that you were able to walk away from both. Always
remember, "Perfect is the enemy of good enough."

Thanks, and I agree.

I've experienced the too high alcohol intake problem in a
family member (who is no longer with us.)

Ours, too. One aunt, an alky who I dearly loved, accidentally shot
her husband who had broken into the bathroom where she was going to
commit suicide. She accomplished it a week later. Sad.

Ouch! Accidentally? She was going to use the gun to commit
suicide? And when he broke in, he startled her enough so the weapon
discharged?

He grabbed it and it went off in the struggle.


In the case I mentioned, there were no firearms present. She
fell and broke a hip, then bailed out of the rehab place early so she
could get home to her alcohol and tobacco.

Later, in the nursing home, she re-broke the hip, and when on the
operating table that time, her heart stopped and was restarted, but
there was no brain function left. The heart kept running for another
week and a half.

Wow. Now -that- is addiction...


[ ... Back to Rivnuts .. ]

Ideally, someone else (who knows what s/he is doing, sets the
projection of the nose on the tools for a particular project, and then
the assembly people just put each Rivnut in properly without trouble.
(Another reason for having spares is to get the tool set just right,
which requires a few test rivets to be expended. :-)

Nah, not if you're GOOD. polishes fingernails on chest

Maybe -- but I know that I sometimes need to try a couple,
especially if it has been a while since I last used it, and don't
remember what thickness metal it was set for, and what grip range
Rivnut, too. :-)

That's what you get, using those januwine RivNuts instead of the more
superiorer Chiwanese import thingies.


[ ... and Anti-seize ... ]

I used the anti-seize on the plugs in my MGA, which was fairly
difficult to get to. :-)

I rode in an MGTD to the QA job we were talking about. There was a
gaping hole in the floorboard on the passenger side which made rainy
days interesting. I'm sure glad we didn't live in England at the
time. SoCal was bad enough. Heck, it got down to 40 there sometimes,
in the middle of winter!

Knowing what I know now, I'd have helped him fit and weld in a new
floorboard.

Hmm ... that would to have worked for the MGA. The foorboards
are plywood, screwed down over lips on the trans tunnel, and into welded
on nuts on the bottom of the raill, where they could rust in place.

Indeed.


The manual had you pull the seats, floorboards, and trans tunnel
to access changing the clutch. I did it that way *once*, and then
figured out how to do it leaving all of that in there.

And -- on my first one (a '57) -- someone before had replaced
the official rear hanger for the muffler with a standard US one, which
broke, bowing the exhaust tube up into contact with the plywood, which
charred and sent an undesirable smell into the cockpit. Luckily, this
was winter, and I pulled off and dumped some handfuls of snow on it,
then I smashed a tin can flat and put it between the pipe and the
floorboard, so I could get home and fix it *right*. :-) (I went to the
local dealer and bought the proper support bracket -- and I think that
was the only Whitworth hardware on the car. I had to use a crescent
wrench on it. :-)

Isn't it fun, having to use 3 different style-sets of tools on one
vehicle?

--
The beauty of the 2nd Amendment is that it will not be needed
until they try to take it. --Thomas Jefferson

On Sat, 26 Oct 2013 22:05:27 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


And -- on my first one (a '57) -- someone before had replaced
the official rear hanger for the muffler with a standard US one, which
broke, bowing the exhaust tube up into contact with the plywood, which
charred and sent an undesirable smell into the cockpit. Luckily, this
was winter, and I pulled off and dumped some handfuls of snow on it,
then I smashed a tin can flat and put it between the pipe and the
floorboard, so I could get home and fix it *right*. :-) (I went to the
local dealer and bought the proper support bracket -- and I think that
was the only Whitworth hardware on the car. I had to use a crescent
wrench on it. :-)

Known to the rest of the world as an "english wrench" and to the Brits
as a "french wrench"
AKA a "fitzall" or a "damnit wrench"

Isn't it fun, having to use 3 different style-sets of tools on one
vehicle?

On 2013-10-27, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 27 Oct 2013 04:02:41 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[ ... ]

Low budget photog.

Low budget, and nobody present who knew what angle of view would
give the customer information which s/he needs. (But then again, isn't
that HF's basic principle of operation? :-)

I think you could apply that to the vast majority of bidnesses alive
today. They saved money by doing it in-house, using clueless morons
who get minimum wage. "Why are my customers bailing?" they whine.
C'est la guerre, oui?

¡Sí!

[ ... ]

Ours, too. One aunt, an alky who I dearly loved, accidentally shot
her husband who had broken into the bathroom where she was going to
commit suicide. She accomplished it a week later. Sad.

Ouch! Accidentally? She was going to use the gun to commit
suicide? And when he broke in, he startled her enough so the weapon
discharged?

He grabbed it and it went off in the struggle.

Ouch!

[ ... ]

Later, in the nursing home, she re-broke the hip, and when on the
operating table that time, her heart stopped and was restarted, but
there was no brain function left. The heart kept running for another
week and a half.

Wow. Now -that- is addiction...

Unfortunately, yes.

[ ... Back to Rivnuts .. ]

[ ... ]

Nah, not if you're GOOD. polishes fingernails on chest

Maybe -- but I know that I sometimes need to try a couple,
especially if it has been a while since I last used it, and don't
remember what thickness metal it was set for, and what grip range
Rivnut, too. :-)

That's what you get, using those januwine RivNuts instead of the more
superiorer Chiwanese import thingies.

:-)

[ ... ]

Knowing what I know now, I'd have helped him fit and weld in a new
floorboard.

Hmm ... that would *not* have worked for the MGA. The floorboards
Typo correction ------------^^^

[ ... ]

And -- on my first one (a '57) -- someone before had replaced
the official rear hanger for the muffler with a standard US one, which
broke, bowing the exhaust tube up into contact with the plywood, which
charred and sent an undesirable smell into the cockpit. Luckily, this
was winter, and I pulled off and dumped some handfuls of snow on it,
then I smashed a tin can flat and put it between the pipe and the
floorboard, so I could get home and fix it *right*. :-) (I went to the
local dealer and bought the proper support bracket -- and I think that
was the only Whitworth hardware on the car. I had to use a crescent
wrench on it. :-)

Isn't it fun, having to use 3 different style-sets of tools on one
vehicle?

Well ... back in those days, they didn't need metric at least.
My first metric socket set I got for the little 50 cc Honda which I used
on a field trip in Arizona.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2013-10-27, wrote:
On Sat, 26 Oct 2013 22:05:27 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


And -- on my first one (a '57) -- someone before had replaced

[ ... ]

was the only Whitworth hardware on the car. I had to use a crescent
wrench on it. :-)

Known to the rest of the world as an "english wrench" and to the Brits
as a "french wrench"
AKA a "fitzall" or a "damnit wrench"

When a friend and I used to do a lot of work on our cars, we
would commonly say "Please pass the (bigger/smaller) metric", meaning
the Crescent -- even though nothing on our cars was Metric. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" fired this volley in
:

Well ... back in those days, they didn't need metric at least.
My first metric socket set I got for the little 50 cc Honda which I used
on a field trip in Arizona.


I dunno... I bought a 1957 Fiat 1200 Spyder in 1967. There were a lot of
VWs on the road then, but not much else 'foreign'. The Fiat (remember,
from 1957) was ALL metric; not a single Imperial fastener on it.

Even with three VW shops in the county, we played hell finding a local auto
parts shop that carried enough metric tools to make up a 'full set'. And
BOY, did that motor need tools! It blew up _something_ about every 1200
miles (maybe that's why they called the model "the 1200"???), and no head
gasket had ever been known to last on one of those engines for more than
5000 miles.

Lloyd


Lloyd

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...

When a friend and I used to do a lot of work on our cars, we
would commonly say "Please pass the (bigger/smaller) metric",
meaning
the Crescent -- even though nothing on our cars was Metric. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

I have a genuine left-handed adjustable wrench, "A Quality Product
from India". The adjusting nut has a left-hand thread.
jsw

Did the OP ever tell us what s/he did
with the sliding door? Or, would that be
too shocking for this list?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 2013-10-29, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" fired this volley in
:

Well ... back in those days, they didn't need metric at least.
My first metric socket set I got for the little 50 cc Honda which I used
on a field trip in Arizona.


I dunno... I bought a 1957 Fiat 1200 Spyder in 1967. There were a lot of
VWs on the road then, but not much else 'foreign'. The Fiat (remember,
from 1957) was ALL metric; not a single Imperial fastener on it.

Well ... yes -- but that was French (or was it Italian?). I
would have been very surprised if they had used a single Whitworth. :-)

I was talking specifically about the MGA series -- 1500, 1600,
and 1600 MK II ('56 trough about '63, IIRC).

Earlier MGs used a lot more Whitworth, and later ones I don't
know about, but it would not surprise me if they added metric to the
collection.

Even with three VW shops in the county, we played hell finding a local auto
parts shop that carried enough metric tools to make up a 'full set'. And
BOY, did that motor need tools! It blew up _something_ about every 1200
miles (maybe that's why they called the model "the 1200"???), and no head
gasket had ever been known to last on one of those engines for more than
5000 miles.

Never worked on one of those. I got the full set of 3/8" drive
Metric sockets (used) in Arizona back around 1964 or so for the little
50 cc Honda.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 30 Oct 2013 02:26:39 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-10-29, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" fired this volley in
:

Well ... back in those days, they didn't need metric at least.
My first metric socket set I got for the little 50 cc Honda which I used
on a field trip in Arizona.


I dunno... I bought a 1957 Fiat 1200 Spyder in 1967. There were a lot of
VWs on the road then, but not much else 'foreign'. The Fiat (remember,
from 1957) was ALL metric; not a single Imperial fastener on it.

Well ... yes -- but that was French (or was it Italian?). I
would have been very surprised if they had used a single Whitworth. :-)

I was talking specifically about the MGA series -- 1500, 1600,
and 1600 MK II ('56 trough about '63, IIRC).

Earlier MGs used a lot more Whitworth, and later ones I don't
know about, but it would not surprise me if they added metric to the
collection.

My 61' Royal Enfield/Indian motorcycle is Whitworth.
My M20 BSA messenger bike was Withworth...which I had a much easier
time buying Whitworth tools for back in the 1970s (which went with the
bike when I gave it to my Dad)

Fortunately I have managed to find an excellent Ebay seller in England
who buys used sockets, wrenches and tools and is willing to ship to
the US for very good prices (as a buyer) and he has taken my requests
and shopped for them.

a gentleman who goes under the nym Southcoast999

Unlike this bloody ****ing ripoff...notice his shipping charges for 2
small wrenches

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DRAPER-1-ELO...-/181038393796

$161 !!!!!!!!!!!!!



Even with three VW shops in the county, we played hell finding a local auto
parts shop that carried enough metric tools to make up a 'full set'. And
BOY, did that motor need tools! It blew up _something_ about every 1200
miles (maybe that's why they called the model "the 1200"???), and no head
gasket had ever been known to last on one of those engines for more than
5000 miles.

Never worked on one of those. I got the full set of 3/8" drive
Metric sockets (used) in Arizona back around 1964 or so for the little
50 cc Honda.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
"Their mommies tell them they're special, Liberals just don't understand
that "special" is a polite euphemism for;
*window licker on the short bus*"

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

Did we ever hear what the writer did with his
storm door? I do apologize for being on topic....

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 2013-10-30, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 30 Oct 2013 02:26:39 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-10-29, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" fired this volley in

[ ... ]

Well ... yes -- but that was French (or was it Italian?). I
would have been very surprised if they had used a single Whitworth. :-)

I was talking specifically about the MGA series -- 1500, 1600,
and 1600 MK II ('56 trough about '63, IIRC).

Earlier MGs used a lot more Whitworth, and later ones I don't
know about, but it would not surprise me if they added metric to the
collection.

My 61' Royal Enfield/Indian motorcycle is Whitworth.
My M20 BSA messenger bike was Withworth...which I had a much easier
time buying Whitworth tools for back in the 1970s (which went with the
bike when I gave it to my Dad)

Yep. Bikes were a different game. The official shop manual for
the MGA made a big point of saying that they had changed over to
"Unified" threads (compatible with US SAE threads.)

Fortunately I have managed to find an excellent Ebay seller in England
who buys used sockets, wrenches and tools and is willing to ship to
the US for very good prices (as a buyer) and he has taken my requests
and shopped for them.

a gentleman who goes under the nym Southcoast999

Great!

Unlike this bloody ****ing ripoff...notice his shipping charges for 2
small wrenches

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DRAPER-1-ELO...-/181038393796

$161 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amazing. I think that he is claiming that the wrench is new
manufacture, so that price is semi-reasonable for one that large, but
the shipping is insane.

[ ... ]

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

*Maybe* -- if that was truly added by avast (not forged) -- and
if the e-mail was not modified by some other system it passed through on
the way to me. :-) I would really only *trust* a virus scan done on
receipt by my own system (if I ran systems where I cared about Virus
likelyhood. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 31 Oct 2013 02:45:16 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-10-30, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 30 Oct 2013 02:26:39 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-10-29, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" fired this volley in

[ ... ]

Well ... yes -- but that was French (or was it Italian?). I
would have been very surprised if they had used a single Whitworth. :-)

I was talking specifically about the MGA series -- 1500, 1600,
and 1600 MK II ('56 trough about '63, IIRC).

Earlier MGs used a lot more Whitworth, and later ones I don't
know about, but it would not surprise me if they added metric to the
collection.

My 61' Royal Enfield/Indian motorcycle is Whitworth.
My M20 BSA messenger bike was Withworth...which I had a much easier
time buying Whitworth tools for back in the 1970s (which went with the
bike when I gave it to my Dad)

Yep. Bikes were a different game. The official shop manual for
the MGA made a big point of saying that they had changed over to
"Unified" threads (compatible with US SAE threads.)

The UK changed to ASA or Metric starting in about 1965 -1972
My Triumph 650 is ASA and its a 1972..but the sidecare (Belgian) is
metric



Fortunately I have managed to find an excellent Ebay seller in England
who buys used sockets, wrenches and tools and is willing to ship to
the US for very good prices (as a buyer) and he has taken my requests
and shopped for them.

a gentleman who goes under the nym Southcoast999

Great!

Unlike this bloody ****ing ripoff...notice his shipping charges for 2
small wrenches

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DRAPER-1-ELO...-/181038393796

$161 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Amazing. I think that he is claiming that the wrench is new
manufacture, so that price is semi-reasonable for one that large, but
the shipping is insane.

[ ... ]

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

*Maybe* -- if that was truly added by avast (not forged) -- and
if the e-mail was not modified by some other system it passed through on
the way to me. :-) I would really only *trust* a virus scan done on
receipt by my own system (if I ran systems where I cared about Virus
likelyhood. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

I run Avast, AVG and another that I cant remember the name of..in the
background along with Spy-bot to kill malware and tracking. It slows
the computer down just a smidge..but Im not gaming on this machine and
I go lots of interesting places and download lots of Epub files...so
the combination has been quite useful

Gunner

--
"Their mommies tell them they're special, Liberals just don't understand
that "special" is a polite euphemism for;
*window licker on the short bus*"

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On Wed, 30 Oct 2013 07:41:39 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Did we ever hear what the writer did with his
storm door? I do apologize for being on topic....

Nope, not until now,
I found some # 12 & 14, 3" deck screws and drilled out the hole that was striping to
the size of the screws shaft,- 'the threads of the deck screws' then drilled the inter
door aluminum casement a little larger than the overall screw size. Using a full
screw I started them into the hole to somewhat thread them then cut the 3" screws down
to about 2.4" so they were about .125" through. They appear to hold fine, I'm using
some large rubber O rings under the screw head to give them some give so the hot cold
cycle doesn't pull them out.
I'll let you know how it works in a few years.
Boy the thread sure changed from my original post hasn't it.
Thanks to all for your assistance. kg

To reply to this message please remove the AT
after the kgs1 in the reply to address.

To a conservatist's it truly is a free country,
YOU may do whatever they wish. KG

On 10/31/2013 9:56 AM, KG wrote:
Nope, not until now,
I found some # 12 & 14, 3" deck screws and drilled out the hole that was striping to
the size of the screws shaft,- 'the threads of the deck screws' then drilled the inter
door aluminum casement a little larger than the overall screw size. Using a full
screw I started them into the hole to somewhat thread them then cut the 3" screws down
to about 2.4" so they were about .125" through. They appear to hold fine, I'm using
some large rubber O rings under the screw head to give them some give so the hot cold
cycle doesn't pull them out.
I'll let you know how it works in a few years.
Boy the thread sure changed from my original post hasn't it.
Thanks to all for your assistance. kg


I sure hope that gives you many years of good
service. And, yes, the thread drifted a LOT.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 2013-10-31, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 31 Oct 2013 02:45:16 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-10-30, Gunner Asch wrote:

[ ... ]

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

*Maybe* -- if that was truly added by avast (not forged) -- and
if the e-mail was not modified by some other system it passed through on
the way to me. :-) I would really only *trust* a virus scan done on
receipt by my own system (if I ran systems where I cared about Virus
likelyhood. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

I run Avast, AVG and another that I cant remember the name of..in the
background along with Spy-bot to kill malware and tracking. It slows
the computer down just a smidge..but Im not gaming on this machine and
I go lots of interesting places and download lots of Epub files...so
the combination has been quite useful

Not intended as a distrust of *you* -- just that I understand
how many ways an e-mail can be corrupted before it reaches me.

It is good to protect from *incoming* problems. but as an
assurance that the *outgoing* e-mail is still virus-free by the time it
gets to me -- that is a different game. :-) I usually get a chuckle out
of e-mails that I get which claim to be safe because of checking at the
sending side. It always could have been infected on the way through the
net to my system -- or it could have been forged by someone else
(including your "From: " and most of the other headers.

About the only time I might accept that as valid is if it used
cryptographic signatures on the whole e-mail body, and also signed
(cryptgraphically) as from someone who I trusted -- and who I trusted to
not get his system infected. :-) As far as I can see, avast does not
have provisions for cryptographic signatures to assure that the body of
the e-mail (or usenet posting) is unaltered.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 1 Nov 2013 04:11:30 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-10-31, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 31 Oct 2013 02:45:16 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-10-30, Gunner Asch wrote:

[ ... ]

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

*Maybe* -- if that was truly added by avast (not forged) -- and
if the e-mail was not modified by some other system it passed through on
the way to me. :-) I would really only *trust* a virus scan done on
receipt by my own system (if I ran systems where I cared about Virus
likelyhood. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

I run Avast, AVG and another that I cant remember the name of..in the
background along with Spy-bot to kill malware and tracking. It slows
the computer down just a smidge..but Im not gaming on this machine and
I go lots of interesting places and download lots of Epub files...so
the combination has been quite useful

Not intended as a distrust of *you* -- just that I understand
how many ways an e-mail can be corrupted before it reaches me.

It is good to protect from *incoming* problems. but as an
assurance that the *outgoing* e-mail is still virus-free by the time it
gets to me -- that is a different game. :-) I usually get a chuckle out
of e-mails that I get which claim to be safe because of checking at the
sending side. It always could have been infected on the way through the
net to my system -- or it could have been forged by someone else
(including your "From: " and most of the other headers.

About the only time I might accept that as valid is if it used
cryptographic signatures on the whole e-mail body, and also signed
(cryptgraphically) as from someone who I trusted -- and who I trusted to
not get his system infected. :-) As far as I can see, avast does not
have provisions for cryptographic signatures to assure that the body of
the e-mail (or usenet posting) is unaltered.

Enjoy,
DoN.

True indeed. But..Avast has a pretty good reputation of not lying
about their ability to provide protection.

Its not like Bobs Bait and AntiVirus

Gunner

--
"Their mommies tell them they're special, Liberals just don't understand
that "special" is a polite euphemism for;
*window licker on the short bus*"

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On 11/2/2013 2:06 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
True indeed. But..Avast has a pretty good reputation of not lying
about their ability to provide protection.

Its not like Bobs Bait and AntiVirus

Gunner

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

I had that for a while. Kept having beer cans appear
in my fridge.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..