On 26 Oct 2013 04:04:43 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:
On 2013-10-25, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 25 Oct 2013 02:09:38 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:
[ ... ]
And we now have, elsewhere in this thread, an explanation of
just what the situation is. (I read that last night after posting the
previous article.)
Yeah, 99.9% of the time, the OP forgets to include about 90% of the
detail needed which would get them a -good- answer the -first- time.
sigh
Yep.
http://www.harborfreight.com/45-piec...-kit-1210.html
[ ... ]
HF's jobs are real (knockoff) rivnuts, then.
Just very poorly photographed, then. :-)
You expect otherwise in today's life? Half the pics I see lately were
taken by gasp damned cellphones by their overcaffeinated owners.
'sCriminal, it is.
:-)
If they had just photographed from a bit more of an angle, to
show the shape of the Rivnuts, it would have been a big help. The tool
could also be used with Nutserts, however. Just a bit different amount
of crimp travel.
Low budget photog.
[ ... ]
OK. Those I inspected with were very thin, maybe 1.5-2 threads, max.
I had fun as a QA inspector until I took it into my entire life.
Everything became go/nogo and it damnear kilt me, increasing my
already far too high intake of alcohol. I'm glad I was able to walk
away from both. I sure learned a lot there, though.
Glad that you were able to walk away from both. Always
remember, "Perfect is the enemy of good enough."
Thanks, and I agree.
I've experienced the too high alcohol intake problem in a
family member (who is no longer with us.)
Ours, too. One aunt, an alky who I dearly loved, accidentally shot
her husband who had broken into the bathroom where she was going to
commit suicide. She accomplished it a week later. Sad.
My first experience with the Rivnuts and the tooling was when I
worked for a company which built (among many other things) flight
simulators. That was also where I first experienced *proper* crimp
terminals and tooling. :-)
It's amazing how well proper tools and crimprings work, isn't it?
Yep. Just as though they were *designed* to do a good job. :-)
Yeah, almost, huh?
But I wasn't in the position of having to inspect things, though
I learned that the proper crimpers left one or two raised dots on the
crimped area, depending on the size, so an inspector could tell whether
the right tooling had been used on the terminals (where the color
defined the size). Off by two sizes (and thus back to the proper number
of dots) the mismatch was *extremely* obvious.
BTDT.
As an inspector, I'll bet.
[ ... HF Rivnut set ... ]
With 4 or 5 sizes being included in the original kit, having 100ea of
the nuts would have at least doubled the kit price. And most people
will use just one or two sizes the most frequently, so I think they
did the right thing.
Probably so. I know that in crimp terminal sets, I commonly use
red (22-18 ga), Blue (16-14), and Yellow (12-10), and occasionally small
yellow (28-24 IIRC), along which much less frequent (and not to be found
in most kits) Red (8), Blue (6), and I have crimpers and a few examples
of Yellow (4), Red (2), Blue (0), Yellow (2-0), red (3-0) and blue (4-0)
all of those with hydraulic crimp heads. The small yellow are also not
in the kits. But there are *never* enough crimp terminals in the kits
to even finish a typical project. (Not to mention not enough of a given
ring size or forked terminal size to cover the project, either. And I
expect the same from Rivnut kits. Occasionally, I've found boxes of
1000 of a given size, like 6-32. But for many years, I've had a few of
a given size, and had to scrimp on where I used them.
I've done my share of balling up thin wire, putting in a few drips of
solder, and making the 20ga wire fit the 10ga connector when the
proper terminal wasn't available.
The tool shown in the auction above has to be adjusted for both the
size of the Rivnut, and the thickness of the sheet metal into which it
is being installed. Get it too loose, and the Rivnut will turn
(especially if you have the ones without the key), and get it too tight
and you strip out the threads. I don't see provisions on the HF tool to
make such adjustments, though they may exist.
Thread the tool's screw back in and give it another OOMPH! ?
If it did not draw in fully -- but not very useful if you strip
out the threads by over-drawing. :-)
True, but with all those threads, it's less likely.
But the compound leverage of the *proper* tool can strip the
threads out of the 6-32 and 8-32 at least. The rest against which the
Rivnut is pulled is threaded on the OD, and can be adjusted to give just
the right degree of crimp -- for a single style of Rivnut, and a single
thickness of metal. Change either (or both) and you have to re-adjust.
Makes them a lot better for repeating jobs than for one or two Rivnut
insertions.
Yes, I suppose you're right. But it's as much the tool user as it is
the tool, IMHO. Big JoeBob can easily strip any size nut while little
JoAnn can't crimp the little ones hard enough.
Well ... the lever tools from B.F.Goodrich were designed to
bottom easily, and if you first set the nose projection properly, nobody
could squeeze it too hard, because the 1/3 round handle would nest
against the fully-round handle. The leverage was over-center at that
point, so it did not take a strong operator, and it could not be
over-done. On the crimper in the HF kit (as well as many sold on eBay),
I don't see any such travel limit, so over-tightening is too likely.
(But it may not have enough leverage to make that easy. :-)
I 'spect you're right.
Ideally, someone else (who knows what s/he is doing, sets the
projection of the nose on the tools for a particular project, and then
the assembly people just put each Rivnut in properly without trouble.
(Another reason for having spares is to get the tool set just right,
which requires a few test rivets to be expended. :-)
Nah, not if you're GOOD. polishes fingernails on chest
[ ... ]
Well ... since it turns out that he is putting these in hollow
extrusions as part of sliding-door frames, there is no real way that he
could get to the backside to stake them as above.
True. Yes, "stake" was the term I searched for and missed, thanks.
So -- countersunk Rivnuts with the anti-rotation key -- and the
corresponding notching tool.
[ ... ]
But that is a much thicker piece of aluminum, thick enough to
have a number of threads engaging -- not the one or two threads which
would happen with the aluminum thickness described in the original post
(0.080"). A 12.5 TPI (2mm pitch) screw would only get one thread in the
metal. 32 TPI (e.g. 6-32, 8-32 or 10-32 to name common ones which I
believe the OP mentioned) would only have 1.6 threads in the aluminum
sheet.
Isn't that why we're suggesting rivnuts? To get away from the
single-thread security?
Yes. But you were mentioning the anti-sieze on spark plug
threads, which can't be that thin. :-)
Yeah, I used small amounts on those and fingers to even it out,
wetting all the threads with it while taking off the excess. Nary a
problem. Boy, were those easier to remove the next time, though!
I used the anti-sieze on the plugs in my MGA, which was fairly
difficult to get to. :-)
I rode in an MGTD to the QA job we were talking about. There was a
gaping hole in the floorboard on the passenger side which made rainy
days interesting. I'm sure glad we didn't live in England at the
time. SoCal was bad enough. Heck, it got down to 40 there sometimes,
in the middle of winter!
Knowing what I know now, I'd have helped him fit and weld in a new
floorboard.
--
The beauty of the 2nd Amendment is that it will not be needed
until they try to take it. --Thomas Jefferson