On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 21:48:04 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Ed Huntress fired this volley in
:

There's no presumption there. It's a serious question. It's not a
field that I know anything about, but "amateur pyrotechnician"
implies, to me, someone who's working with the explosives and
propellants themselves. Is that a fair distinction?

I'm not answering for Richard, but you should know that the craft
attracts many professionals from highly technical trades, because it can
be as technical as one wishes. Physicians, engineers, research chemists,
and lawyers are just as commonly found arm-deep in star compositions as
are less technically-inclined folks.

LLoyd

I'm sure that it does. But I'm also sure that you realize your comment
about losing "freedoms," in the context of the Boston bombings and the
ensuing discussion about explosives, suggests that you were talking
about direct involvement with explosives. In fact, your last post
suggests the same thing.

I'll reply to that one, which I appreciate your taking the time to
explain. Right now I have to run off. I'll be back at it.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 10:14:45 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 4/20/2013 9:50 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

FWIW, I don't care if you're a danger to yourself. You're an adult;
you work out your own risk-reward ratios.

I do get involved when someone pursues a hobby or a craft that creates
a danger for others who have not chosen to take risks for your sake.
I'll have more to say about this in my post to Lloyd. I'm glad he
started this discussion, because it's helped me to clear up something
that's at the root of a lot of the related issues we talk about here.

About losing your pilot's license: I'm sorry for you, and I'm
sympathetic. In three month's time in 1973 I lost my pilot's license,
my SCCA driver's license, and a berth on a sailboat for the Southern
Ocean Racing Conference. We can talk about it some time. I was
devastated by it; it turned my life upside down.

So I understand your frustration with that.


I appreciate that, Ed. BUT...

I didn't lose my pilot's license.
IT is still valid.

They just won't renew my medical.

I was finishing up a Wittman Tailwind, which is WAY too fast for
the new Sport Pilot (drivers license medical) and had applied for
a new medical, I fell into never-never land.

If one has been denied a medical, one can not legally fly under the
sport pilot rules.

Catch-22

Uh, that's a bummer. It was medicals for me, too. Type 1 diabetics
couldn't fly power until the '90s; I don't recall my license status at
the time. I hadn't flown power for five years but I had over 150
logged glider flights in the interim.

'Same for the SCCA. I tried again in 1983, after we had portable
blood-glucose monitors and something close to real-time control. SCCA
HQ was behind me but it was all at the discretion of the butthead
medical examiner in Philadelphia, and he wouldn't budge. I had built a
car for the ITC class (old junk driven by old men; I was 35 g) and I
had to sell it.

It was the SORC berth that broke my heart. That wasn't licensing; it
was the very real chance of a medical emergency and dying at sea.

Anyway, I've long since put it behind me. It sounds like it still eats
at you. Again, I'm sorry for that.

--
Ed Huntress

On 4/20/2013 9:38 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks fired this volley in news5idnXV1-
:

Darwin? In retrospect, why didn't he mix it with water and use it as
fertilizer. I'm not a smart guy but even I know better...EVERYBODY
knows better! Was he not aware of how to handle powder?

Black powder doesn't go "skunky", nitrocellulose-based propellants do.

BP contains potassium nitrate and sulfur; both good soil amendments. NC
powders make lousy fertilizer, releasing most of their decomposition
products as nitrous oxides and concentrated acids.

LLoyd



I' ll be damned! The NRA reloading manuals that I use for teaching
classes state that both single-base and double-based powders can be used
as fertilizer to destroy it. I won't teach that anymore!

On Apr 20, 9:25*am, Richard wrote:
On 4/20/2013 10:54 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:



Anyway, I've long since put it behind me. It sounds like it still eats
at you. Again, I'm sorry for that.

It always will, Ed.

You can admit what eats at you. Ed can't.

Ed still has tons of things that still eat at him but he can't admit
it and pretends he's put it all behind him. He hasn't. Ed is filled
with anger and rage. To cover it up he often accuses others of being
angry and filled with rage.

On Apr 20, 9:19*pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ed Huntress fired this volley :

Ok, then, just what "freedoms" were you talking about, when you said
"an amateur pyrotechnician - would have a lot of their freedoms
restricted. *That's what they want."?

Ooookay... if you're listening -- the 'they' is the power mongers
(mostly, but not all democrats) in government who truly want to remove
all 'power' from all citizens, including the use of dangerous materials
or the pursuit of dangerous activities, even when those only endanger the
participants.

And no, I'm not 'anti government'. *It serves many good, necessary
purposes. *It's not just our government, either; governments have
inevitably devolved into controlling forms that use public doles and
restrictive regulations to turn their citizens into drones.

But, to the point: *The amateur pyros know that any criminal use of
explosives by any person, regardless of motive, will cause these same
power mongers to _attempt_ to further restrict their access to and use of
the materials to make their fireworks. *They've already restricted a
number of ordinary, essentially harmless chemicals used almost
exclusively by pyros because they MIGHT be used to make illegal
explosives. (no, I'm not talking about ammonium nitrate, which is not
used in pyrotechnics).

They'll also attempt to restrict their firing of the fireworks (which is
done mostly at licensed shoot sites, during organized fireworks
festivals).

The government has already sought to further restrict amateurs by putting
their suppliers out of business, and without any provocation, but just
because the (now prior) BATFE safety director had "an agenda".

The safety director of BATFE declared in public (in a fireworks
symposium, no less) that her personal goal was to have all fireworks
outlawed everywhere in the US. *She was a young, minority, power-hungry
feminist who eventually got thrown out of power, but she set a lot of
things in motion that have yet to have their full effects on the
industry.

And Ed... the amateurs do no harm. *They don't even compete with, but
rather contribute to, the professional trade.

Except for the same rare 'fringe element' you'll find in any activity,
they all follow the rules and stringent safety protocols, use care AND
good judgement, and care very much what the communities around them think
of their activities. *Most of the guilds will, indeed, censure and
_report_ members whom they find doing illegal things.

So, any time the government gets involved, the amateur fireworkers
rightly fear that their ability to ply their craft will be restricted
further.

* *LLoyd


Sorry Lloyd but I am with Ed on this one..your comments just betrayed
you and your hidden agenda.

"She was a young, minority, power-hungry feminist who eventually got
thrown out of power, but she set a lot of
things in motion that have yet to have their full effects on the
industry. "

As the BM bombers have vividly shown the world, we need stronger
regulation of ammo and reloading supplies..including supplies to the
amateur pyrotechnics industry...in the United States.

TMT

On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 10:08:05 -0500, Richard
wrote:


And you know what else?
Lloyd is exactly right...

"He who hath once smelt the smoke shall ne'er again be free!"

Truer words ha not been spoken

On Apr 20, 10:57*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 10:08:05 -0500, Richard
wrote:



And you know what else?
Lloyd is exactly right...

"He who hath once smelt the smoke shall ne'er again be free!"

Truer words ha not been spoken

Trite.

On 4/21/2013 12:08 AM, jon_banquer wrote:
On Apr 20, 9:25 am, wrote:
On 4/20/2013 10:54 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:



Anyway, I've long since put it behind me. It sounds like it still eats
at you. Again, I'm sorry for that.

It always will, Ed.

You can admit what eats at you. Ed can't.

Ed still has tons of things that still eat at him but he can't admit
it and pretends he's put it all behind him. He hasn't. Ed is filled
with anger and rage. To cover it up he often accuses others of being
angry and filled with rage.


That's a pretty common thing.

Just look at the stranger creatures that post here.
LOTS of repressed rage and transference.

Transference is the term for seeing your own denied faults in other.

On 4/21/2013 9:50 AM, ATP wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
snip TMT quote

Oh, I forgot.

You're a moron for saying something definitive about two activities you
know nothing about. You've proven over and over that you don't know much
about anything you comment on, so this isn't new behavior on your part.

LLoyd

His only purpose is to troll and it seems to be working.


We should really do something about that some day.

Maybe declare a TMT-Free week?

Ignore TMT!

Everybody (else) can start a thread if the want.
And we should continue working existing threads

But not respond to any new threads from this guy.

I'll bet his head would explode.

On 4/21/2013 1:00 AM, jon_banquer wrote:
On Apr 20, 10:57 pm, Gunner wrote:
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 10:08:05 -0500,
wrote:



And you know what else?
Lloyd is exactly right...

"He who hath once smelt the smoke shall ne'er again be free!"

Truer words ha not been spoken

Trite.

But true...

On 4/21/2013 4:10 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:52:49 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 9:50 AM, ATP wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
snip TMT quote

Oh, I forgot.

You're a moron for saying something definitive about two activities you
know nothing about. You've proven over and over that you don't know much
about anything you comment on, so this isn't new behavior on your part.

LLoyd

His only purpose is to troll and it seems to be working.


We should really do something about that some day.

Maybe declare a TMT-Free week?

Ignore TMT!

Everybody (else) can start a thread if the want.
And we should continue working existing threads

But not respond to any new threads from this guy.

I'll bet his head would explode.


What..you guys dont have permanant kill filters?


Nope. Still running Tbird.
But I've about worn the lettering off of my K key.

jon_banquer fired this volley in news:5b573731-d3a0-
:

Trite.


I don't know... It's an actual literary quotation from the 16th(??)century.
I'll have to find the citation. It's sort of a mantra for all
pyrotechnicians.

Jon, without the 'enslavement' to the art that the quotation infers,
there'd be no way folks would work for (no, not three), but seven to ten
days in the blistering sun to do a 20-minute show.

When our company did the Pepsi-400 show at Daytona (they still do, but I'm
not with them now) it's almost two weeks of setup for a 20-25 minute blow-
out at the end of the race. They shoot from 15-20 locations all around the
track and infield, and from barges in the middle of Lake Lloyd (sorry, it
really is named that!G)

The pay ain't all that great. Every man-jack on the show is there for the
joy of it.

Maybe a quotation from Bill Withrow, one of the founders of the Pyrotechnic
Guild, International, would explain it better.
----------------------------------------------

"I often use the word "joy" when describing fireworks.

It is a considered word, deliberate in choice. Not just amusement,
entertainment, or astonishment, but joy.

Our art makes us all into children again for awhile. We become one in our
experience for the moment, lost in the sound and color and light.
We see large forces, stronger than we could ever be, yet beautiful in their
effects. Sometimes violent, sometimes restrained. Delicate beyond
imagination at times, coarse and rude at others.

Deadly force, dangerous, dirty stuff. Crafted with sweat. Controlled by the
artist. Bringing joy to many. Bringing joy.

To me the art encompasses all of life. Pain and work, plan and mistake, joy
and tragedy. For all the pain, injury and failure we suffer, our efforts
bring the joy - the magic - to thousands. Not a bad return.

Though very few ever recognize the effort, nearly all remember the result,
and all have, for a few moments, the Joy.

The world is better for an instant. What more could one want?"

-Reflections by Bill Withrow 9/15/92 11:47 PM

Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks fired this volley in
:


I' ll be damned! The NRA reloading manuals that I use for teaching
classes state that both single-base and double-based powders can be
used
as fertilizer to destroy it. I won't teach that anymore!

Tom, sun (UV), moisture, and bacteria will decompose both single-based
and double-based powders. Both nitrocelluose and nitroglycerine will
decompose under those conditions, as will nitroguanadine -- the 'triple-
based' third component.

They just make lousy fertilizer, tending to significantly lower the soil
pH to levels dangerous for many plants. 'Might work on gardinias or
camillias...

LLoyd

On 4/21/2013 7:49 PM, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:50:09 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 12:08 AM, jon_banquer wrote:
On Apr 20, 9:25 am, wrote:
On 4/20/2013 10:54 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:



Anyway, I've long since put it behind me. It sounds like it still eats
at you. Again, I'm sorry for that.

It always will, Ed.

You can admit what eats at you. Ed can't.

Ed still has tons of things that still eat at him but he can't admit
it and pretends he's put it all behind him. He hasn't. Ed is filled
with anger and rage. To cover it up he often accuses others of being
angry and filled with rage.


That's a pretty common thing.

Just look at the stranger creatures that post here.
LOTS of repressed rage and transference.

Not to defend Ed but are you sure that the others you mention are
demonstrating "repressed rage and transference", or are just shouting
abuse from behind their mother's apron as believe that they are safe
on the Internet.

I have always surmised the latter :-)


Transference is the term for seeing your own denied faults in other.


I don't believe well behaved mother's sons behave that way.

I know my own mom would pin my ears if she caught me doing that.

Too_Many_Tools fired this volley in
:

"She was a young, minority, power-hungry feminist who eventually got
thrown out of power, but she set a lot of
things in motion that have yet to have their full effects on the
industry. "

How is a statement of fact an 'agenda'? Those very reasons are why she
got demoted from a senior division head in the bureau to field inspector
of a one-person post in bum-**** nowhere. Instead of serving the
industries she was sworn serve, she openly strove to destroy them;
Hell... she put it in writing!

"Service" to the industries they regulate is in ATF's charter.
Deliberately striving to destroy those same industries is not.

It wasn't my agenda, it was hers; because of it, she got fired.

Lloyd

Too_Many_Tools fired this volley in
:

As the BM bombers have vividly shown the world, we need stronger
regulation of ammo and reloading supplies..including supplies to the
amateur pyrotechnics industry...in the United States.

Oh, I forgot.

You're a moron for saying something definitive about two activities you
know nothing about. You've proven over and over that you don't know much
about anything you comment on, so this isn't new behavior on your part.

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
snip TMT quote

Oh, I forgot.

You're a moron for saying something definitive about two activities you
know nothing about. You've proven over and over that you don't know much
about anything you comment on, so this isn't new behavior on your part.

LLoyd

His only purpose is to troll and it seems to be working.

On 4/21/2013 8:27 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 04:59:08 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 4:10 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:52:49 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 9:50 AM, ATP wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
snip TMT quote

Oh, I forgot.

You're a moron for saying something definitive about two activities you
know nothing about. You've proven over and over that you don't know much
about anything you comment on, so this isn't new behavior on your part.

LLoyd

His only purpose is to troll and it seems to be working.


We should really do something about that some day.

Maybe declare a TMT-Free week?

Ignore TMT!

Everybody (else) can start a thread if the want.
And we should continue working existing threads

But not respond to any new threads from this guy.

I'll bet his head would explode.


What..you guys dont have permanant kill filters?


Nope. Still running Tbird.
But I've about worn the lettering off of my K key.

Ill email you a copy of Agent 1.93 You wont go back to Tbird

Gunner


I played with one of the free versions (dunno what's current)
and was a bit underwhelmed...

On Apr 21, 6:18*am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
jon_banquer fired this volley in news:5b573731-d3a0-
:

Trite.

I don't know... It's an actual literary quotation from the 16th(??)century.
I'll have to find the citation. *It's sort of a mantra for all
pyrotechnicians.

Jon, without the 'enslavement' to the art that the quotation infers,
there'd be no way folks would work for (no, not three), but seven to ten
days in the blistering sun to do a 20-minute show.

When our company did the Pepsi-400 show at Daytona (they still do, but I'm
not with them now) it's almost two weeks of setup for a 20-25 minute blow-
out at the end of the race. *They shoot from 15-20 locations all around the
track and infield, and from barges in the middle of Lake Lloyd (sorry, it
really is named that!G)

The pay ain't all that great. *Every man-jack on the show is there for the
joy of it.

Maybe a quotation from Bill Withrow, one of the founders of the Pyrotechnic
Guild, International, would explain it better.
----------------------------------------------

"I often use the word "joy" when describing fireworks.

It is a considered word, deliberate in choice. Not just amusement,
entertainment, or astonishment, but joy.

Our art makes us all into children again for awhile. We become one in our
experience for the moment, lost in the sound and color and light.
We see large forces, stronger than we could ever be, yet beautiful in their
effects. Sometimes violent, sometimes restrained. Delicate beyond
imagination at times, coarse and rude at others.

Deadly force, dangerous, dirty stuff. Crafted with sweat. Controlled by the
artist. Bringing joy to many. Bringing joy.

To me the art encompasses all of life. Pain and work, plan and mistake, joy
and tragedy. For all the pain, injury and failure we suffer, our efforts
bring the joy - the magic - to thousands. * Not a bad return.

Though very few ever recognize the effort, nearly all remember the result,
and all have, for a few moments, the Joy.

The world is better for an instant. What more could one want?"

-Reflections by Bill Withrow 9/15/92 11:47 PM


All trite referred to was Gunner's response of...

"Truer words ha not been spoken" ...

and not anything you posted.

Hope you enjoy your Sunday.

Jon

On 4/21/2013 10:21 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:09:12 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 8:27 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 04:59:08 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 4:10 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:52:49 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 9:50 AM, ATP wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
snip TMT quote

Oh, I forgot.

You're a moron for saying something definitive about two activities you
know nothing about. You've proven over and over that you don't know much
about anything you comment on, so this isn't new behavior on your part.

LLoyd

His only purpose is to troll and it seems to be working.


We should really do something about that some day.

Maybe declare a TMT-Free week?

Ignore TMT!

Everybody (else) can start a thread if the want.
And we should continue working existing threads

But not respond to any new threads from this guy.

I'll bet his head would explode.


What..you guys dont have permanant kill filters?


Nope. Still running Tbird.
But I've about worn the lettering off of my K key.

Ill email you a copy of Agent 1.93 You wont go back to Tbird

Gunner


I played with one of the free versions (dunno what's current)
and was a bit underwhelmed...

Obviously you didnt know how to set it up properly... particularly if
you are using Thunderbird (snicker)

The current version is an overblown pile of crapola that has sequinns
and gold plating on the tail fins.

In fact...they all do ..going back to version 2.5

Now there are other newsreaders out there..Pan,
MicroplanetGravity...etc etc

http://www.newsreaders.info/recommended-newsreaders.htm

Enjoy!



Btw..there are other


Ohhhh...fins!

How I lusted in my 12 year old heart after Billy Sol's 62 Cadillac.
(His sister lived next door)

On 4/21/2013 10:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:22:05 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 10:21 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:09:12 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 8:27 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 04:59:08 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 4:10 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:52:49 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 9:50 AM, ATP wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
snip TMT quote

Oh, I forgot.

You're a moron for saying something definitive about two activities you
know nothing about. You've proven over and over that you don't know much
about anything you comment on, so this isn't new behavior on your part.

LLoyd

His only purpose is to troll and it seems to be working.


We should really do something about that some day.

Maybe declare a TMT-Free week?

Ignore TMT!

Everybody (else) can start a thread if the want.
And we should continue working existing threads

But not respond to any new threads from this guy.

I'll bet his head would explode.


What..you guys dont have permanant kill filters?


Nope. Still running Tbird.
But I've about worn the lettering off of my K key.

Ill email you a copy of Agent 1.93 You wont go back to Tbird

Gunner


I played with one of the free versions (dunno what's current)
and was a bit underwhelmed...

Obviously you didnt know how to set it up properly... particularly if
you are using Thunderbird (snicker)

The current version is an overblown pile of crapola that has sequinns
and gold plating on the tail fins.

In fact...they all do ..going back to version 2.5

Now there are other newsreaders out there..Pan,
MicroplanetGravity...etc etc

http://www.newsreaders.info/recommended-newsreaders.htm

Enjoy!



Btw..there are other


Ohhhh...fins!

How I lusted in my 12 year old heart after Billy Sol's 62 Cadillac.
(His sister lived next door)
Still using Agent 1.91 (and driving a 17 year old Ranger)

Hang on to it, because it looks like Forte doesn't support it anymore?

On 4/21/2013 9:21 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Tom Gardner Mars@Tacks fired this volley in
:


I' ll be damned! The NRA reloading manuals that I use for teaching
classes state that both single-base and double-based powders can be
used
as fertilizer to destroy it. I won't teach that anymore!

Tom, sun (UV), moisture, and bacteria will decompose both single-based
and double-based powders. Both nitrocelluose and nitroglycerine will
decompose under those conditions, as will nitroguanadine -- the 'triple-
based' third component.

They just make lousy fertilizer, tending to significantly lower the soil
pH to levels dangerous for many plants. 'Might work on gardinias or
camillias...

LLoyd



At least I, or anybody I know has had powder to destroy. It will last
forever (almost) if kept sealed and cool. For it to go skunky would
mean improper storage or it's VERY old. I go through it too fast to
worry about it, but I never have too much laying around, I've only got
about 9 lbs in the cabinet. When I DO have a good quantity, I tend to
burn it faster.

On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 22:08:59 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
wrote:

On Apr 20, 9:25*am, Richard wrote:
On 4/20/2013 10:54 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:



Anyway, I've long since put it behind me. It sounds like it still eats
at you. Again, I'm sorry for that.

It always will, Ed.

You can admit what eats at you. Ed can't.

Ed still has tons of things that still eat at him but he can't admit
it and pretends he's put it all behind him. He hasn't. Ed is filled
with anger and rage. To cover it up he often accuses others of being
angry and filled with rage.

HAHAHAhaha! Ask Iggy. We've met.

Jon, I'm so laid back that my biggest problem is staying awake. d8-)

You've got one hell of a lot of noise going on in your head, Jon.
Maybe you need a week on the beach.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 08:27:50 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Too_Many_Tools fired this volley in
:

"She was a young, minority, power-hungry feminist who eventually got
thrown out of power, but she set a lot of
things in motion that have yet to have their full effects on the
industry. "

How is a statement of fact an 'agenda'? Those very reasons are why she
got demoted from a senior division head in the bureau to field inspector
of a one-person post in bum-**** nowhere. Instead of serving the
industries she was sworn serve, she openly strove to destroy them;
Hell... she put it in writing!

"Service" to the industries they regulate is in ATF's charter.

Huh? You mean, they're like the SEC, "servicing" the financial
industry?

I don't see that anywhere in the related acts, describing what ATF is
supposed to monitor and regulate (18 U.S.C.A. Chapter 40). Where is
this charter?

--
Ed Huntress

Deliberately striving to destroy those same industries is not.

It wasn't my agenda, it was hers; because of it, she got fired.

Lloyd

On Apr 20, 11:50*pm, Richard wrote:
On 4/21/2013 12:08 AM, jon_banquer wrote:









On Apr 20, 9:25 am, *wrote:
On 4/20/2013 10:54 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

Anyway, I've long since put it behind me. It sounds like it still eats
at you. Again, I'm sorry for that.

It always will, Ed.

You can admit what eats at you. Ed can't.

Ed still has tons of things that still eat at him but he can't admit
it and pretends he's put it all behind him. He hasn't. Ed is filled
with anger and rage. To cover it up he often accuses others of being
angry and filled with rage.

That's a pretty common thing.

Just look at the stranger creatures that post here.
LOTS of repressed rage and transference.

Transference is the term for seeing your own denied faults in other.

I took the anger and rage I have with CADCAM companies who don't
listen to their users and don't provide the kind of tools I think are
needed and channeled it into something I think is very productive:

http://www.linkedin.com/groups/CADCA...eaders-4538703

The above was the step I took about a year and a half after doing this
interview:

http://cadinsider.typepad.com/my_web...dge-again.html

All of this has resulted in my becoming involved with some very
interesting projects.

Ed Huntress fired this volley in
:

I don't see that anywhere in the related acts, describing what ATF is
supposed to monitor and regulate (18 U.S.C.A. Chapter 40). Where is
this charter?

Ok..."charter" was the wrong word. It's codified in their various
mission statements they make to the public and the three industries they
regulate and control.

For what it's worth, they really DO live up to that, too. I've only ever
once met an ATF field inspector who had any purpose except to simply make
sure that we knew HOW to comply with the regs, and subsequently did.
They are not 'tyrants', but helpful and courteous in their work.

This woman safety chief I'm talking about was just the opposite. She
publicly stated her objection to the whole industry's existance, and
swore it as her mission to destroy it. And subsequent to that, BATFE
destroyed her. Fitting. The industry didn't have to lift a finger. ATF
didn't want her type representing them.

I've had one other inspector who demonstrated the same attitude she did.
Not even our complying to the letter of the law was adequate for him --
he'd invent new 'regulations'on-the-fly in order to cite us for possible
license revocation.

At the time, I was the GM of a small company that was the 4th largest
producer of close-proximity pyro in the world, supplying the
entertainment trade. We had a LOT to lose; millions.

I personally fought him for two years through letters and calls to the
director's office, and personal visits to regional offices. I can
proudly say I _personally_ got the ******* completely out of ATF. After
I got done with excoriating him (and proving it through their own
regulations and his own written statements), they demoted him, reduced
his pay, and offered him a post similar to being exiled (they don't seem
to be able to fire anyone, so that's their standard 'death-sentence') --
and he resigned his post.

So... yes... their 'charter' is to serve the industries they regulate,
even if that's not in the congressional record.


LLoyd

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:52:49 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 9:50 AM, ATP wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
snip TMT quote

Oh, I forgot.

You're a moron for saying something definitive about two activities you
know nothing about. You've proven over and over that you don't know much
about anything you comment on, so this isn't new behavior on your part.

LLoyd

His only purpose is to troll and it seems to be working.


We should really do something about that some day.

Maybe declare a TMT-Free week?

Ignore TMT!

Everybody (else) can start a thread if the want.
And we should continue working existing threads

But not respond to any new threads from this guy.

I'll bet his head would explode.


What..you guys dont have permanant kill filters?

On Apr 21, 2:10*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:52:49 -0500, Richard
wrote:









On 4/21/2013 9:50 AM, ATP wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"lloydspinsidemindspring.com *wrote in message
8.3.70...
snip TMT quote

Oh, I forgot.

You're a moron for saying something definitive about two activities you
know nothing about. *You've proven over and over that you don't know much
about anything you comment on, so this isn't new behavior on your part.

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 15:42:21 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Ed Huntress fired this volley in
:

I don't see that anywhere in the related acts, describing what ATF is
supposed to monitor and regulate (18 U.S.C.A. Chapter 40). Where is
this charter?

Ok..."charter" was the wrong word. It's codified in their various
mission statements they make to the public and the three industries they
regulate and control.

For what it's worth, they really DO live up to that, too. I've only ever
once met an ATF field inspector who had any purpose except to simply make
sure that we knew HOW to comply with the regs, and subsequently did.
They are not 'tyrants', but helpful and courteous in their work.

This woman safety chief I'm talking about was just the opposite. She
publicly stated her objection to the whole industry's existance, and
swore it as her mission to destroy it. And subsequent to that, BATFE
destroyed her. Fitting. The industry didn't have to lift a finger. ATF
didn't want her type representing them.

I've had one other inspector who demonstrated the same attitude she did.
Not even our complying to the letter of the law was adequate for him --
he'd invent new 'regulations'on-the-fly in order to cite us for possible
license revocation.

At the time, I was the GM of a small company that was the 4th largest
producer of close-proximity pyro in the world, supplying the
entertainment trade. We had a LOT to lose; millions.

I personally fought him for two years through letters and calls to the
director's office, and personal visits to regional offices. I can
proudly say I _personally_ got the ******* completely out of ATF. After
I got done with excoriating him (and proving it through their own
regulations and his own written statements), they demoted him, reduced
his pay, and offered him a post similar to being exiled (they don't seem
to be able to fire anyone, so that's their standard 'death-sentence') --
and he resigned his post.

So... yes... their 'charter' is to serve the industries they regulate,
even if that's not in the congressional record.


LLoyd


On the other hand..their gun division...another story altogether.

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
news
On the other hand..their gun division...another story altogether.

I cannot speak to that. I know that the same inspectors who inspect us,
as explosives manufacturers, also do firearms and distilled spirits
duties.

If I had to guess, I'd say that OUR inspectors (out of the Orlando and
Jacksonville posts) would not be objectionable to work with on firearms.
They are very pleasant in their explosives enforcement activities.

But I cannot speak to other posts. People are people, and no two are
alike.

Lloyd

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:50:09 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 12:08 AM, jon_banquer wrote:
On Apr 20, 9:25 am, wrote:
On 4/20/2013 10:54 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:



Anyway, I've long since put it behind me. It sounds like it still eats
at you. Again, I'm sorry for that.

It always will, Ed.

You can admit what eats at you. Ed can't.

Ed still has tons of things that still eat at him but he can't admit
it and pretends he's put it all behind him. He hasn't. Ed is filled
with anger and rage. To cover it up he often accuses others of being
angry and filled with rage.


That's a pretty common thing.

Just look at the stranger creatures that post here.
LOTS of repressed rage and transference.

Not to defend Ed but are you sure that the others you mention are
demonstrating "repressed rage and transference", or are just shouting
abuse from behind their mother's apron as believe that they are safe
on the Internet.

I have always surmised the latter :-)


Transference is the term for seeing your own denied faults in other.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Apr 21, 5:49*pm, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:50:09 -0500, Richard
wrote:









On 4/21/2013 12:08 AM, jon_banquer wrote:
On Apr 20, 9:25 am, *wrote:
On 4/20/2013 10:54 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

Anyway, I've long since put it behind me. It sounds like it still eats
at you. Again, I'm sorry for that.

It always will, Ed.

You can admit what eats at you. Ed can't.

Ed still has tons of things that still eat at him but he can't admit
it and pretends he's put it all behind him. He hasn't. Ed is filled
with anger and rage. To cover it up he often accuses others of being
angry and filled with rage.

That's a pretty common thing.

Just look at the stranger creatures that post here.
LOTS of repressed rage and transference.

Not to defend Ed but are you sure that the others you mention are
demonstrating "repressed rage and transference", or are just shouting
abuse from behind their mother's apron as believe that they are safe
on the Internet.

I have always surmised the latter :-)

Transference is the term for seeing your own denied faults in other.

--
Cheers,

John B.

J.B. Slocomb sock puppet born January 2013.

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 04:59:08 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 4:10 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:52:49 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 9:50 AM, ATP wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
snip TMT quote

Oh, I forgot.

You're a moron for saying something definitive about two activities you
know nothing about. You've proven over and over that you don't know much
about anything you comment on, so this isn't new behavior on your part.

LLoyd

His only purpose is to troll and it seems to be working.


We should really do something about that some day.

Maybe declare a TMT-Free week?

Ignore TMT!

Everybody (else) can start a thread if the want.
And we should continue working existing threads

But not respond to any new threads from this guy.

I'll bet his head would explode.


What..you guys dont have permanant kill filters?


Nope. Still running Tbird.
But I've about worn the lettering off of my K key.

Ill email you a copy of Agent 1.93 You wont go back to Tbird

Gunner

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

Might want to check these out.....

Gunner, I'll scan those as time permits, but let me ask you a question,
prefaced with a statement of my conditions.

I have been involved directly with ATF's field agents and inspectors many
times per year since 1995; before that, only sporadically, but in the
same roles; me the 'user' and they the 'enforcers'.

I've only _ever_ had ONE bad experience with any of them across five
states, six or seven different posts with different inspectors and
agents, and about twenty different people. And when ATF got my end of
the story, they punished HIM, not me. When their safety director behaved
that way toward others (not me), they punished her, not the industry.

So -- wouldn't my own personal experiences with them trump some 'web
publishing' of stuff like that; stuff that likely cannot be verified;
Stuff that could be trumped up because they have a personal 'bone to
pick' with ATF; Or stuff that comes out of conspiracy theories?

I hear those sorts of unverifiable rumors all the time, but I've had
great experiences working with them, and intend to continue in that same
mode. I have a dozens of friends and business associates in the military
explosives and fireworks businesses. Almost all of them would tell you
the same thing I just did.

If ATF really is that bad, then all I can say is that they treat us very
well.

Lloyd

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 08:22:37 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 7:49 PM, J.B.Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:50:09 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 12:08 AM, jon_banquer wrote:
On Apr 20, 9:25 am, wrote:
On 4/20/2013 10:54 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:



Anyway, I've long since put it behind me. It sounds like it still eats
at you. Again, I'm sorry for that.

It always will, Ed.

You can admit what eats at you. Ed can't.

Ed still has tons of things that still eat at him but he can't admit
it and pretends he's put it all behind him. He hasn't. Ed is filled
with anger and rage. To cover it up he often accuses others of being
angry and filled with rage.


That's a pretty common thing.

Just look at the stranger creatures that post here.
LOTS of repressed rage and transference.

Not to defend Ed but are you sure that the others you mention are
demonstrating "repressed rage and transference", or are just shouting
abuse from behind their mother's apron as believe that they are safe
on the Internet.

I have always surmised the latter :-)


Transference is the term for seeing your own denied faults in other.


I don't believe well behaved mother's sons behave that way.

I know my own mom would pin my ears if she caught me doing that.

I doubt your momma was a Leftwinger.

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 21:02:51 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

Might want to check these out.....

Gunner, I'll scan those as time permits, but let me ask you a question,
prefaced with a statement of my conditions.

I have been involved directly with ATF's field agents and inspectors many
times per year since 1995; before that, only sporadically, but in the
same roles; me the 'user' and they the 'enforcers'.

I've only _ever_ had ONE bad experience with any of them across five
states, six or seven different posts with different inspectors and
agents, and about twenty different people. And when ATF got my end of
the story, they punished HIM, not me. When their safety director behaved
that way toward others (not me), they punished her, not the industry.

So -- wouldn't my own personal experiences with them trump some 'web
publishing' of stuff like that; stuff that likely cannot be verified;
Stuff that could be trumped up because they have a personal 'bone to
pick' with ATF; Or stuff that comes out of conspiracy theories?

I hear those sorts of unverifiable rumors all the time, but I've had
great experiences working with them, and intend to continue in that same
mode. I have a dozens of friends and business associates in the military
explosives and fireworks businesses. Almost all of them would tell you
the same thing I just did.

If ATF really is that bad, then all I can say is that they treat us very
well.

Lloyd

Keep in mind..that your line of business isnt "Guns"

Fortunately.

Now..the People and the NRA largely gutted the BATF 12 or so yrs
ago...but..some of those people are still on board.

I have dead friends from the actions of the BATF..back in the 1990s


http://www.elfie.org/~croaker/howell.html

Then of course we have Waco, Ruby Ridge and many many thousands of
similar actions

The ATF should have been gutted 2 decades ago. And the management,
lined up and executed with aforethought.

Slowly.

Over many hours.

Gunner, not a fan of the ATF

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:09:12 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 8:27 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 04:59:08 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 4:10 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:52:49 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 9:50 AM, ATP wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
snip TMT quote

Oh, I forgot.

You're a moron for saying something definitive about two activities you
know nothing about. You've proven over and over that you don't know much
about anything you comment on, so this isn't new behavior on your part.

LLoyd

His only purpose is to troll and it seems to be working.


We should really do something about that some day.

Maybe declare a TMT-Free week?

Ignore TMT!

Everybody (else) can start a thread if the want.
And we should continue working existing threads

But not respond to any new threads from this guy.

I'll bet his head would explode.


What..you guys dont have permanant kill filters?


Nope. Still running Tbird.
But I've about worn the lettering off of my K key.

Ill email you a copy of Agent 1.93 You wont go back to Tbird

Gunner


I played with one of the free versions (dunno what's current)
and was a bit underwhelmed...

Obviously you didnt know how to set it up properly... particularly if
you are using Thunderbird (snicker)

The current version is an overblown pile of crapola that has sequinns
and gold plating on the tail fins.

In fact...they all do ..going back to version 2.5

Now there are other newsreaders out there..Pan,
MicroplanetGravity...etc etc

http://www.newsreaders.info/recommended-newsreaders.htm

Enjoy!



Btw..there are other

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:22:05 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 10:21 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:09:12 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 8:27 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 04:59:08 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 4:10 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:52:49 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 9:50 AM, ATP wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
snip TMT quote

Oh, I forgot.

You're a moron for saying something definitive about two activities you
know nothing about. You've proven over and over that you don't know much
about anything you comment on, so this isn't new behavior on your part.

LLoyd

His only purpose is to troll and it seems to be working.


We should really do something about that some day.

Maybe declare a TMT-Free week?

Ignore TMT!

Everybody (else) can start a thread if the want.
And we should continue working existing threads

But not respond to any new threads from this guy.

I'll bet his head would explode.


What..you guys dont have permanant kill filters?


Nope. Still running Tbird.
But I've about worn the lettering off of my K key.

Ill email you a copy of Agent 1.93 You wont go back to Tbird

Gunner


I played with one of the free versions (dunno what's current)
and was a bit underwhelmed...

Obviously you didnt know how to set it up properly... particularly if
you are using Thunderbird (snicker)

The current version is an overblown pile of crapola that has sequinns
and gold plating on the tail fins.

In fact...they all do ..going back to version 2.5

Now there are other newsreaders out there..Pan,
MicroplanetGravity...etc etc

http://www.newsreaders.info/recommended-newsreaders.htm

Enjoy!



Btw..there are other


Ohhhh...fins!

How I lusted in my 12 year old heart after Billy Sol's 62 Cadillac.
(His sister lived next door)
Still using Agent 1.91 (and driving a 17 year old Ranger)

On 04/17/2013 10:01 PM, wrote:
Speculation is that the bombs were set off by cell phone. I wonder if
a cell signal would penetrate the metal of a pressure cooker. Mine
barely works in my metal shop building; with the doors open. Any
experts want to weigh in?

He was hiding in the Boston Whaler

On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 11:13:21 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 10:43 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:22:05 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 10:21 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 10:09:12 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 8:27 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 04:59:08 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 4:10 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:52:49 -0500,
wrote:

On 4/21/2013 9:50 AM, ATP wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
snip TMT quote

Oh, I forgot.

You're a moron for saying something definitive about two activities you
know nothing about. You've proven over and over that you don't know much
about anything you comment on, so this isn't new behavior on your part.

LLoyd

His only purpose is to troll and it seems to be working.


We should really do something about that some day.

Maybe declare a TMT-Free week?

Ignore TMT!

Everybody (else) can start a thread if the want.
And we should continue working existing threads

But not respond to any new threads from this guy.

I'll bet his head would explode.


What..you guys dont have permanant kill filters?


Nope. Still running Tbird.
But I've about worn the lettering off of my K key.

Ill email you a copy of Agent 1.93 You wont go back to Tbird

Gunner


I played with one of the free versions (dunno what's current)
and was a bit underwhelmed...

Obviously you didnt know how to set it up properly... particularly if
you are using Thunderbird (snicker)

The current version is an overblown pile of crapola that has sequinns
and gold plating on the tail fins.

In fact...they all do ..going back to version 2.5

Now there are other newsreaders out there..Pan,
MicroplanetGravity...etc etc

http://www.newsreaders.info/recommended-newsreaders.htm

Enjoy!



Btw..there are other


Ohhhh...fins!

How I lusted in my 12 year old heart after Billy Sol's 62 Cadillac.
(His sister lived next door)
Still using Agent 1.91 (and driving a 17 year old Ranger)

Hang on to it, because it looks like Forte doesn't support it anymore?

Whats to support? I run 1.93...and it was fully mature and bug free.
Ive been running it since 1998. No issues noted, dont need any bells
and whistles..dont need "desks" and all that happy horse****.

Shrug

Gunner