Let's say that I change my setting for either aperture, speed, or manual
priority.

I set the aperture for depth of focus, and the camera selects the speed.
I set the speed to freeze motion, and the camera selects the aperture.
I put it on manual, and can set both, even intentionally off if I want to.

Now, the question. I turn on the flash.

Does the camera use the settings I put in, or does it go into control of the
camera, and change any of the settings? I have taken many photos of the
same thing at many various settings, and I do know the photos come out
differently. I was just wondering about this part of the camera's actual
functioning.

I apologize for the basic question, but I want to learn this from the ABC's
up, and I have a few missing letters.

Steve

On Jan 1, 12:32*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
Let's say that I change my setting for either aperture, speed, or manual
priority.

I set the aperture for depth of focus, and the camera selects the speed.
I set the speed to freeze motion, and the camera selects the aperture.
I put it on manual, and can set both, even intentionally off if I want to..

Now, the question. *I turn on the flash.

Does the camera use the settings I put in, or does it go into control of the
camera, and change any of the settings? *I have taken many photos of the
same thing at many various settings, and I do know the photos come out
differently. *I was just wondering about this part of the camera's actual
functioning.

I apologize for the basic question, but I want to learn this from the ABC's
up, and I have a few missing letters.

Steve

What's the reason you don't take advantage of this tremendous resource
for photography / digital camera instruction that I just posted about
yesterday?

http://www.lynda.com/Photography-tra...ials/70-0.html

On Jan 1, 12:32*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
Let's say that I change my setting for either aperture, speed, or manual
priority.

I set the aperture for depth of focus, and the camera selects the speed.
I set the speed to freeze motion, and the camera selects the aperture.
I put it on manual, and can set both, even intentionally off if I want to..

Now, the question. *I turn on the flash.

Does the camera use the settings I put in, or does it go into control of the
camera, and change any of the settings? *I have taken many photos of the
same thing at many various settings, and I do know the photos come out
differently. *I was just wondering about this part of the camera's actual
functioning.

I apologize for the basic question, but I want to learn this from the ABC's
up, and I have a few missing letters.

Steve

I would think it would be very important to list the make and model of
the camera you are asking about.

"Steve B" wrote in message
...
Let's say that I change my setting for either aperture, speed, or manual
priority.

I set the aperture for depth of focus, and the camera selects the speed.
I set the speed to freeze motion, and the camera selects the aperture.
I put it on manual, and can set both, even intentionally off if I want to.

Now, the question. I turn on the flash.

Does the camera use the settings I put in, or does it go into control of
the camera, and change any of the settings? I have taken many photos of
the same thing at many various settings, and I do know the photos come out
differently. I was just wondering about this part of the camera's actual
functioning.

I apologize for the basic question, but I want to learn this from the
ABC's up, and I have a few missing letters.

Steve

Wrong group, but you can answer if you want. I got a Nikon on the way, and
am reading up.

Steve

On 1/1/2013 12:32 PM, Steve B wrote:
Let's say that I change my setting for either aperture, speed, or manual
priority.

I set the aperture for depth of focus, and the camera selects the speed.
I set the speed to freeze motion, and the camera selects the aperture.
I put it on manual, and can set both, even intentionally off if I want to.

Now, the question. I turn on the flash.

Does the camera use the settings I put in, or does it go into control of the
camera, and change any of the settings? I have taken many photos of the
same thing at many various settings, and I do know the photos come out
differently. I was just wondering about this part of the camera's actual
functioning.

I apologize for the basic question, but I want to learn this from the ABC's
up, and I have a few missing letters.

Flash is a whole other branch of photography.
Probably depends a lot on the exact model camera and flash as well as
what flash mode you're in. (assuming digital, not sure about film
cameras, been far too long since I played with 35mm SLR/flash)

Maybe someone that knows more can give you a fairly generic answer, but
I'd suggest finding a good web forum specific to your brand camera and
asking. I have two Sony DSLR's and frequent Dyxum.com, but there's good
forums for other brands too.

Jon

On Jan 1, 1:11*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
"Steve B" wrote in message

...









Let's say that I change my setting for either aperture, speed, or manual
priority.

I set the aperture for depth of focus, and the camera selects the speed..
I set the speed to freeze motion, and the camera selects the aperture.
I put it on manual, and can set both, even intentionally off if I want to.

Now, the question. *I turn on the flash.

Does the camera use the settings I put in, or does it go into control of
the camera, and change any of the settings? *I have taken many photos of
the same thing at many various settings, and I do know the photos come out
differently. *I was just wondering about this part of the camera's actual
functioning.

I apologize for the basic question, but I want to learn this from the
ABC's up, and I have a few missing letters.

Steve

Wrong group, but you can answer if you want. *I got a Nikon on the way, and
am reading up.

Steve


If you don't get an answer in the right group check Lynda.com to see
if someone has done a video on using the model you own.

On Jan 1, 1:11*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
"Steve B" wrote in message

...









Let's say that I change my setting for either aperture, speed, or manual
priority.

I set the aperture for depth of focus, and the camera selects the speed..
I set the speed to freeze motion, and the camera selects the aperture.
I put it on manual, and can set both, even intentionally off if I want to.

Now, the question. *I turn on the flash.

Does the camera use the settings I put in, or does it go into control of
the camera, and change any of the settings? *I have taken many photos of
the same thing at many various settings, and I do know the photos come out
differently. *I was just wondering about this part of the camera's actual
functioning.

I apologize for the basic question, but I want to learn this from the
ABC's up, and I have a few missing letters.

Steve

Wrong group, but you can answer if you want. *I got a Nikon on the way, and
am reading up.

Steve

I just checked for you. Lynda.com has videos for Nikon models:

D800, D5100, D7000

Steve B wrote:


Now, the question. I turn on the flash.

Does the camera use the settings I put in, or does it go into control of

I really think you'd have to read the specific instruction book for that
camera to know what they do in this case. Under almost all circumstances,
the camera SHOULD change the exposure quite a bit, although the
flash duration to some extent becomes the shutter speed. In all
the auto modes, it should adjust to the flash being enabled.
In the manual mode, a professional photographer would pre-set
the aperture and shutter for desired result with the flash. But,
most consumer-grade cameras assume the user is an idiot, and
automate anything they can, in some cases making things hard
if you know what you are doing.

Jon

On Jan 1, 2:06*pm, Jon Elson wrote:
Steve B wrote:
Now, the question. *I turn on the flash.

Does the camera use the settings I put in, or does it go into control of

I really think you'd have to read the specific instruction book for that
camera to know what they do in this case. *Under almost all circumstances,
the camera SHOULD change the exposure quite a bit, although the
flash duration to some extent becomes the shutter speed. *In all
the auto modes, it should adjust to the flash being enabled.
In the manual mode, a professional photographer would pre-set
the aperture and shutter for desired result with the flash. *But,
most consumer-grade cameras assume the user is an idiot, and
automate anything they can, in some cases making things hard
if you know what you are doing.

Jon

The manual probably sucks. Much better to watch a video done by
someone who is a professional photographer and who most likely owns
the model of camera the video is done on. It's chump change to
subscribe to Lynda.com. Tons and tons of photography related videos.
Very high quality instruction. I'm not easy to please and I love their
photography stuff.

Jon Elson wrote in
:

Steve B wrote:


Now, the question. I turn on the flash.

Does the camera use the settings I put in, or does it go into control
of

I really think you'd have to read the specific instruction book for
that camera to know what they do in this case. Under almost all
circumstances, the camera SHOULD change the exposure quite a bit,
although the flash duration to some extent becomes the shutter speed.
In all the auto modes, it should adjust to the flash being enabled.
In the manual mode, a professional photographer would pre-set
the aperture and shutter for desired result with the flash. But,
most consumer-grade cameras assume the user is an idiot, and
automate anything they can, in some cases making things hard
if you know what you are doing.

In more sophisticated 35mm SLR film camera systems, you could set the
aperture, and the exposure could be controlled by quenching the flash
when enough light had hit the film. By not completely discharging the
flash cap, they could recharge the flash faster as well. My Olympus OM-2
did that if you used the Olympus flash designed for it. They actually
had a sensor in the camera that looked at the amount of light hitting the
film.

I haven't paid much attention to the inner working of the newer digital
cameras, so I don't know at what price/quality level they might start
playing those sorts of games.

Doug White

On Tue, 1 Jan 2013 13:32:27 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:

Let's say that I change my setting for either aperture, speed, or manual
priority.

I set the aperture for depth of focus, and the camera selects the speed.
I set the speed to freeze motion, and the camera selects the aperture.
I put it on manual, and can set both, even intentionally off if I want to.

Now, the question. I turn on the flash.

Does the camera use the settings I put in, or does it go into control of the
camera, and change any of the settings? I have taken many photos of the
same thing at many various settings, and I do know the photos come out
differently. I was just wondering about this part of the camera's actual
functioning.

I apologize for the basic question, but I want to learn this from the ABC's
up, and I have a few missing letters.

Steve

It depends on the type of camera..and the shutter mechanism.

If its a "focal plane shutter" the camera will set the shutter speed
to the X sinc speed..generally 1/ 60th of a second and then you or
the camera will adjust the iris...the F stop to capture the proper
amount of light.

If its an "iris" shutter..IE the lens opens and closes a shutter
mechanism like the apeture mechanism..the camera will be setable for a
range of shutter speeds and apeture settings. Pretty much the same
for a simple "flipper" shutter, where the shutter simply swings to one
side and exposes the film/sensor.

With some of the newer cameras..with spot and multipoint metering..the
same basic settings are used, however the cameras computer (or you)
will sometimes play with the shutter speed AND the F stop settings
assuming its not a focal plane shutter. Those are hard to "futz with"
..
The problem with focal plane shutters..IE..a long thin "window" that
travels from one end of the film/sensor to the other..is that its
travels at a rate that may be longer or shorter than the duration of
the flash. If the shutter opens when the flash is at its
brightest..and closes before the flash duration goes dim..you are ok.
If it happens the other way around..you will have one side of the
photo nice and well exposed..and then start fading towards black on
the other side. With the old slow flashes..that flash was bright for
a long duration. The newer High speed flashes put out a ****load of
light..but for a shorter time frame. With a normal "iris" type
shutter..thats cool. For a focal plane shutter..it sucks badly.

Few focal plane shutters expose the entire sensor/film at the same
time..ie..opens up wide so the entire sensitive surface gets the light
all at the same time.

With the new cameras and much smaller sensors..this is changing.

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Tue, 1 Jan 2013 14:11:07 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:


"Steve B" wrote in message
...
Let's say that I change my setting for either aperture, speed, or manual
priority.

I set the aperture for depth of focus, and the camera selects the speed.
I set the speed to freeze motion, and the camera selects the aperture.
I put it on manual, and can set both, even intentionally off if I want to.

Now, the question. I turn on the flash.

Does the camera use the settings I put in, or does it go into control of
the camera, and change any of the settings? I have taken many photos of
the same thing at many various settings, and I do know the photos come out
differently. I was just wondering about this part of the camera's actual
functioning.

I apologize for the basic question, but I want to learn this from the
ABC's up, and I have a few missing letters.

Steve

Wrong group, but you can answer if you want. I got a Nikon on the way, and
am reading up.

Steve

Which one?

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Tue, 1 Jan 2013 13:32:27 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:

Let's say that I change my setting for either aperture, speed, or manual
priority.

I set the aperture for depth of focus, and the camera selects the speed.
I set the speed to freeze motion, and the camera selects the aperture.
I put it on manual, and can set both, even intentionally off if I want to.

Now, the question. I turn on the flash.

Does the camera use the settings I put in, or does it go into control of the
camera, and change any of the settings? I have taken many photos of the
same thing at many various settings, and I do know the photos come out
differently. I was just wondering about this part of the camera's actual
functioning.

I apologize for the basic question, but I want to learn this from the ABC's
up, and I have a few missing letters.

Steve

Probably more help than my previous post

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography...lane/index.htm

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/syncspeed.htm

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...ra-flash-2.htm

http://www.wedpix.com/articles/002/w...-camera-flash/

http://neilvn.com/tangents/best-fill-flash-settings/

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fl...-settings.html

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

"Gunner" wrote

Which one?

Gunner


D7000

On 2013-01-01, Steve B wrote:
Let's say that I change my setting for either aperture, speed, or manual
priority.

I set the aperture for depth of focus, and the camera selects the speed.
I set the speed to freeze motion, and the camera selects the aperture.
I put it on manual, and can set both, even intentionally off if I want to.

Now, the question. I turn on the flash.

Does the camera use the settings I put in, or does it go into control of the
camera, and change any of the settings? I have taken many photos of the
same thing at many various settings, and I do know the photos come out
differently. I was just wondering about this part of the camera's actual
functioning.

What camera? Is it film or digital? Who made it? Most of the
following assumes digital -- and in particular the auto-adjust ISO --
film comes with one ISO only -- to change ISO, you change film -- or
change the developing times for the whole roll as a lump.

The Nikon D300s (and other DSLRs) takes a pre-flash to determine
exposure -- and will fire the flash just as much as is needed for the
settings. You left out one other variable for digital cameras -- the
ISO of the sensor, which can be set to automatic, so you can select both
shutter speed and aperture beforehand and it will try to adjust the ISO
to a value which allows a reasonable exposure.

Add an external flash, such as the SB-800 (for the above Nikon
DSLRs), and you have more flash power, but again built-in metering --
and the ability to remotely trigger the flash from the camera without
cables.

However -- if the external flash is not one built into the
camera or designed for remote control by the camera, like the SB-800,
you will need to adjust the aperture and exposure to the flash -- or
with some of the fancier flashes, select aperture, ISO, and such on the
flash's built in computer to go with the camera's settings.

Note, BTW, that electronic flash can't be used with some cameras
at higher shutter speeds (assuming a focal plane shutter), because the
camera's shutter is an opening traveling across the film (or sensor) --
or vertically over the film, so any particular area is exposed only for
the time selected, but the whole film is not uncovered at the same time
until you drop to something like 1/60th or 1/30th of a second, then the
flash fires during the time when the whole film is exposed at once.

The Nikon D70 and D300s (and likely their other DSLR models) has
a two-part shutter -- a mechanical shutter which opens in front of the
sensor, and then an electronic one which stays opaque until just the
right time, then goes transparent and back to opaque -- so this will
work with higher shutter speeds.

I apologize for the basic question, but I want to learn this from the ABC's
up, and I have a few missing letters.

There are rec.photo newsgroups which vary with what kind of
camera they are discussing. The right one of these for your camera
might be the best place to ask this. But be prepared to tell them what
camera you have.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

The first two you might have a chance since the camera is in automatic.
The trick is using flash to stop motion. That is in manual mode.
The camera will increase speed as a priority. Sync is internal and
triggered by a chip.

Flashes typically function well at 50 or 60.

I have synced up at 40 and 25 when working with my view camera. But
then they are special manual mode cameras anyway.

Good grief - that is what you need to experiment with by taking photo's.

Martin

On 1/1/2013 2:32 PM, Steve B wrote:
Let's say that I change my setting for either aperture, speed, or manual
priority.

I set the aperture for depth of focus, and the camera selects the speed.
I set the speed to freeze motion, and the camera selects the aperture.
I put it on manual, and can set both, even intentionally off if I want to.

Now, the question. I turn on the flash.

Does the camera use the settings I put in, or does it go into control of the
camera, and change any of the settings? I have taken many photos of the
same thing at many various settings, and I do know the photos come out
differently. I was just wondering about this part of the camera's actual
functioning.

I apologize for the basic question, but I want to learn this from the ABC's
up, and I have a few missing letters.

Steve

Steve B wrote:
Let's say that I change my setting for either aperture, speed, or manual
priority.

I set the aperture for depth of focus, and the camera selects the speed.
I set the speed to freeze motion, and the camera selects the aperture.
I put it on manual, and can set both, even intentionally off if I want to.

Now, the question. I turn on the flash.

Does the camera use the settings I put in, or does it go into control of the
camera, and change any of the settings? I have taken many photos of the

The answer is it will depend on the camera and flash.

If you want complete control of what's really going to happen, use a
"dumb" strobe. Speedlights (an expensive flash attached do you camera)
will chatter back and forth with the camera and try to be "smart". Keep in
mind that "smart" means the end result of softare written by people who
can't even type their spoken language on a keyboard.

The Nikon speedlight system isn't bad- it's just overly complex and poorly
documented.

On Tue, 1 Jan 2013 19:46:45 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:


"Gunner" wrote

Which one?

Gunner


D7000


NICE!!

Be sure to do all the updates from Nikon There was a firmware update a
year or two ago.

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

"DoN. Nichols" wrote

very good explanation snipped

I knew it would be different for different cameras. My question was, "Does
the camera become a slave once you put it on flash mode, and the settings
you put in get overridden by the camera?"

And I guess the answer is Yes, No, Definitely, Maybe, and I don't know.

For the record, it is a Nikon 7000.

Steve

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"DoN. Nichols" wrote

very good explanation snipped

I knew it would be different for different cameras. My question
was, "Does the camera become a slave once you put it on flash mode,
and the settings you put in get overridden by the camera?"

And I guess the answer is Yes, No, Definitely, Maybe, and I don't
know.

For the record, it is a Nikon 7000.

Steve

You could set it wide open and slow for a low-light shot, then repeat
with the flash and see if the exposure is washed out or correct.
Test shots are cheap and easy with a digital camera.
jsw

On Jan 2, 8:48*am, "Steve B" wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote

very good explanation snipped

I knew it would be different for different cameras. *My question was, "Does
the camera become a slave once you put it on flash mode, and the settings
you put in get overridden by the camera?"

And I guess the answer is Yes, No, Definitely, Maybe, and I don't know.

For the record, it is a Nikon 7000.

Steve

My guess is no because the Nikon 7000 isn't cheap and is very highly
rated. I would think people paying the kind of money a Nikon 7000
costs would want the control. Why not call a photography store and ask
if you don't want to spend the small amount of money to watch a video
on the Nikon 7000 at:

www.lynda.com

You spent all this money on the Nikon 7000 but it seems like your
training budget is zero. That makes no sense to me.

On Wed, 2 Jan 2013 09:48:35 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:


"DoN. Nichols" wrote

very good explanation snipped

I knew it would be different for different cameras. My question was, "Does
the camera become a slave once you put it on flash mode, and the settings
you put in get overridden by the camera?"

And I guess the answer is Yes, No, Definitely, Maybe, and I don't know.

For the record, it is a Nikon 7000.

Steve

No..it remains the master..depending on your flash and settings.

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

On Jan 2, 9:40*am, "Jim Wilkins" wrote:
"Steve B" wrote in message

...



"DoN. Nichols" wrote

very good explanation snipped

I knew it would be different for different cameras. *My question
was, "Does the camera become a slave once you put it on flash mode,
and the settings you put in get overridden by the camera?"

And I guess the answer is Yes, No, Definitely, Maybe, and I don't
know.

For the record, it is a Nikon 7000.

Steve

You could set it wide open and slow for a low-light shot, then repeat
with the flash and see if the exposure is washed out or correct.
Test shots are cheap and easy with a digital camera.
jsw

"Test shots are cheap and easy with a digital camera."

I don't think he has the camera yet and he's trying to learn it with,
I guess, a downloaded PDF of the manual for it.

On 2013-01-02, Doug White wrote:

[ ... ]

In more sophisticated 35mm SLR film camera systems, you could set the
aperture, and the exposure could be controlled by quenching the flash
when enough light had hit the film. By not completely discharging the
flash cap, they could recharge the flash faster as well. My Olympus OM-2
did that if you used the Olympus flash designed for it.

Same with the Nikon N90s.

They actually
had a sensor in the camera that looked at the amount of light hitting the
film.

Nikon did the same. The film made a nice diffuse reflector, so
the sensors in the bottom of the box between the film and the lens could
get a good reading.

I haven't paid much attention to the inner working of the newer digital
cameras, so I don't know at what price/quality level they might start
playing those sorts of games.

When Nikon went to the DSLRs, they could not use the same trick,
because the sensors did not generate the diffuse reflection needed, so
they started using a low powered pre-flash (fast quench) to meter with,
and then a full-powered flash (or at least as full-powered as needed)
for the actual exposure.

They first discovered this with the Kodak conversion of the N90s
film camera to a digital with a special back, so they had to use other
exposure methods built into the flash. IIRC, the best flash for that as
the SB-28.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2013-01-02, Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 1 Jan 2013 13:32:27 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:

Let's say that I change my setting for either aperture, speed, or manual
priority.

I set the aperture for depth of focus, and the camera selects the speed.
I set the speed to freeze motion, and the camera selects the aperture.
I put it on manual, and can set both, even intentionally off if I want to.

Now, the question. I turn on the flash.

Does the camera use the settings I put in, or does it go into control of the
camera, and change any of the settings? I have taken many photos of the
same thing at many various settings, and I do know the photos come out
differently. I was just wondering about this part of the camera's actual
functioning.

I apologize for the basic question, but I want to learn this from the ABC's
up, and I have a few missing letters.

Steve

It depends on the type of camera..and the shutter mechanism.

If its a "focal plane shutter" the camera will set the shutter speed
to the X sinc speed..generally 1/ 60th of a second and then you or
the camera will adjust the iris...the F stop to capture the proper
amount of light.

Yes -- you can't control the exposure with shutter speed with
electronic flash -- the flash typically is shorter than 1/1000th of a
second total time. (Though a flash which is smart enough to quench the
flash before full discharge can control exposure there as well as via
the iris diaphragm. And (assuming digital, not film), the ISO
sensitivity of the sensor can also be adjusted.

If its an "iris" shutter..IE the lens opens and closes a shutter
mechanism like the apeture mechanism..

What I know as a BTW (Between The Lens) shutter.

..the camera will be setable for a
range of shutter speeds and apeture settings.

Except that the shutter won't have much effect on the exposure
with electronic flash. Even the fastest shutter speed on the Zeiss
Contax film camera (1/1250th of a second) is about the length of the
flash anyway.

The primary effect can be to use a quite slow shutter speed to
expose the background sufficiently to record, with the near objects
illuminated by the flash being a bit brighter.

Pretty much the same
for a simple "flipper" shutter, where the shutter simply swings to one
side and exposes the film/sensor.

Hardly a sophisticated camera, however. :-)

With some of the newer cameras..with spot and multipoint metering..the
same basic settings are used, however the cameras computer (or you)
will sometimes play with the shutter speed AND the F stop settings
assuming its not a focal plane shutter. Those are hard to "futz with"

*and* the sensor ISO, for a digital camera.

The problem with focal plane shutters..IE..a long thin "window" that
travels from one end of the film/sensor to the other..is that its
travels at a rate that may be longer or shorter than the duration of
the flash. If the shutter opens when the flash is at its
brightest..and closes before the flash duration goes dim..you are ok.
If it happens the other way around..you will have one side of the
photo nice and well exposed..and then start fading towards black on
the other side. With the old slow flashes..that flash was bright for
a long duration. The newer High speed flashes put out a ****load of
light..but for a shorter time frame. With a normal "iris" type
shutter..thats cool. For a focal plane shutter..it sucks badly.

1/60th of a second for the horizontally traveling shutter,
sometimes as fast as 1/120th of a second for vertically traveling
shutter. (The Zeiss Contax, and some of the Nikon cameras which came
out after the Nikon F -- the ones with the "Copal Square" shutter.

Few focal plane shutters expose the entire sensor/film at the same
time..ie..opens up wide so the entire sensitive surface gets the light
all at the same time.

Depending on shutter speed. Typically, the travel speed of the
curtains is fixed, and the second curtain (the one which closes) is
released a certain time after the first. This means that below a
certain shutter speed, the first curtain totally clears the frame before
the second starts. The fastest speed at which this happens is typically
marked with an 'X' -- or a different color fill in the shutter speed
dial -- typically red.

Note that back in the days of flashbulbs, there were two basic
types -- the standard ones for between-the-lens shutters, which burned
up to a peak and then started back down shortly after that, and the ones
for focal plane shutters "type F bulbs) which would rapidly build up to
a certain light level, and then keep it at about the same brightness
until the shutter had time to complete its cycle.

Note also that the two curtain approach was standard with 35mm
cameras, but other, larger, cameras like the Speed Graphic (4x5" film)
had a focal plane shutter (as well as a between-the-lens shutter
depending on the lens installed) which had one curtain with several
different width slots (four IIRC), and a separate spring which adjusted
how fast the slots moved. Those got faster speeds with both a narrow
slot and a high tension. There was one slot which opened fully, good
for electronic flash when that came around.

With the new cameras and much smaller sensors..this is changing.

Yes. The Nikon DSLRs have a pair of barn doors which open, and
then an electronic (liquid crystal, IIRC) shutter behind that, so the
exposure can go up to very fast with the full frame exposed.

Proably some of the other high-end DSLRs have that as well.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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On 3 Jan 2013 03:59:34 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2013-01-02, Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 1 Jan 2013 13:32:27 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:

Let's say that I change my setting for either aperture, speed, or manual
priority.

I set the aperture for depth of focus, and the camera selects the speed.
I set the speed to freeze motion, and the camera selects the aperture.
I put it on manual, and can set both, even intentionally off if I want to.

Now, the question. I turn on the flash.

Does the camera use the settings I put in, or does it go into control of the
camera, and change any of the settings? I have taken many photos of the
same thing at many various settings, and I do know the photos come out
differently. I was just wondering about this part of the camera's actual
functioning.

I apologize for the basic question, but I want to learn this from the ABC's
up, and I have a few missing letters.

Steve

It depends on the type of camera..and the shutter mechanism.

If its a "focal plane shutter" the camera will set the shutter speed
to the X sinc speed..generally 1/ 60th of a second and then you or
the camera will adjust the iris...the F stop to capture the proper
amount of light.

Yes -- you can't control the exposure with shutter speed with
electronic flash -- the flash typically is shorter than 1/1000th of a
second total time. (Though a flash which is smart enough to quench the
flash before full discharge can control exposure there as well as via
the iris diaphragm. And (assuming digital, not film), the ISO
sensitivity of the sensor can also be adjusted.

If its an "iris" shutter..IE the lens opens and closes a shutter
mechanism like the apeture mechanism..

What I know as a BTW (Between The Lens) shutter.

..the camera will be setable for a
range of shutter speeds and apeture settings.

Except that the shutter won't have much effect on the exposure
with electronic flash. Even the fastest shutter speed on the Zeiss
Contax film camera (1/1250th of a second) is about the length of the
flash anyway.

The primary effect can be to use a quite slow shutter speed to
expose the background sufficiently to record, with the near objects
illuminated by the flash being a bit brighter.

Pretty much the same
for a simple "flipper" shutter, where the shutter simply swings to one
side and exposes the film/sensor.

Hardly a sophisticated camera, however. :-)

With some of the newer cameras..with spot and multipoint metering..the
same basic settings are used, however the cameras computer (or you)
will sometimes play with the shutter speed AND the F stop settings
assuming its not a focal plane shutter. Those are hard to "futz with"

*and* the sensor ISO, for a digital camera.

The problem with focal plane shutters..IE..a long thin "window" that
travels from one end of the film/sensor to the other..is that its
travels at a rate that may be longer or shorter than the duration of
the flash. If the shutter opens when the flash is at its
brightest..and closes before the flash duration goes dim..you are ok.
If it happens the other way around..you will have one side of the
photo nice and well exposed..and then start fading towards black on
the other side. With the old slow flashes..that flash was bright for
a long duration. The newer High speed flashes put out a ****load of
light..but for a shorter time frame. With a normal "iris" type
shutter..thats cool. For a focal plane shutter..it sucks badly.

1/60th of a second for the horizontally traveling shutter,
sometimes as fast as 1/120th of a second for vertically traveling
shutter. (The Zeiss Contax, and some of the Nikon cameras which came
out after the Nikon F -- the ones with the "Copal Square" shutter.

Few focal plane shutters expose the entire sensor/film at the same
time..ie..opens up wide so the entire sensitive surface gets the light
all at the same time.

Depending on shutter speed. Typically, the travel speed of the
curtains is fixed, and the second curtain (the one which closes) is
released a certain time after the first. This means that below a
certain shutter speed, the first curtain totally clears the frame before
the second starts. The fastest speed at which this happens is typically
marked with an 'X' -- or a different color fill in the shutter speed
dial -- typically red.

Note that back in the days of flashbulbs, there were two basic
types -- the standard ones for between-the-lens shutters, which burned
up to a peak and then started back down shortly after that, and the ones
for focal plane shutters "type F bulbs) which would rapidly build up to
a certain light level, and then keep it at about the same brightness
until the shutter had time to complete its cycle.

Note also that the two curtain approach was standard with 35mm
cameras, but other, larger, cameras like the Speed Graphic (4x5" film)
had a focal plane shutter (as well as a between-the-lens shutter
depending on the lens installed) which had one curtain with several
different width slots (four IIRC), and a separate spring which adjusted
how fast the slots moved. Those got faster speeds with both a narrow
slot and a high tension. There was one slot which opened fully, good
for electronic flash when that came around.

With the new cameras and much smaller sensors..this is changing.

Yes. The Nikon DSLRs have a pair of barn doors which open, and
then an electronic (liquid crystal, IIRC) shutter behind that, so the
exposure can go up to very fast with the full frame exposed.

Proably some of the other high-end DSLRs have that as well.

Enjoy,
DoN.

Indeed. Well done!!

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2013-01-02, Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 1 Jan 2013 13:32:27 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:

Let's say that I change my setting for either aperture, speed, or manual
priority.

I set the aperture for depth of focus, and the camera selects the speed.
I set the speed to freeze motion, and the camera selects the aperture.
I put it on manual, and can set both, even intentionally off if I want to.

Now, the question. I turn on the flash.

Does the camera use the settings I put in, or does it go into control of the
camera, and change any of the settings? I have taken many photos of the
same thing at many various settings, and I do know the photos come out
differently. I was just wondering about this part of the camera's actual
functioning.

I apologize for the basic question, but I want to learn this from the ABC's
up, and I have a few missing letters.

Steve

It depends on the type of camera..and the shutter mechanism.

If its a "focal plane shutter" the camera will set the shutter speed
to the X sinc speed..generally 1/ 60th of a second and then you or
the camera will adjust the iris...the F stop to capture the proper
amount of light.

Yes -- you can't control the exposure with shutter speed with
electronic flash -- the flash typically is shorter than 1/1000th of a
second total time. (Though a flash which is smart enough to quench the
flash before full discharge can control exposure there as well as via
the iris diaphragm. And (assuming digital, not film), the ISO
sensitivity of the sensor can also be adjusted.

If its an "iris" shutter..IE the lens opens and closes a shutter
mechanism like the apeture mechanism..

What I know as a BTW (Between The Lens) shutter.

the normal term for this is a "leaf shutter". Most but not all have very
fast sync speeds.


..the camera will be setable for a
range of shutter speeds and apeture settings.

Except that the shutter won't have much effect on the exposure
with electronic flash. Even the fastest shutter speed on the Zeiss
Contax film camera (1/1250th of a second) is about the length of the
flash anyway.

The primary effect can be to use a quite slow shutter speed to
expose the background sufficiently to record, with the near objects
illuminated by the flash being a bit brighter.

Pretty much the same
for a simple "flipper" shutter, where the shutter simply swings to one
side and exposes the film/sensor.

Hardly a sophisticated camera, however. :-)

With some of the newer cameras..with spot and multipoint metering..the
same basic settings are used, however the cameras computer (or you)
will sometimes play with the shutter speed AND the F stop settings
assuming its not a focal plane shutter. Those are hard to "futz with"

*and* the sensor ISO, for a digital camera.

The problem with focal plane shutters..IE..a long thin "window" that
travels from one end of the film/sensor to the other..is that its
travels at a rate that may be longer or shorter than the duration of
the flash. If the shutter opens when the flash is at its
brightest..and closes before the flash duration goes dim..you are ok.
If it happens the other way around..you will have one side of the
photo nice and well exposed..and then start fading towards black on
the other side. With the old slow flashes..that flash was bright for
a long duration. The newer High speed flashes put out a ****load of
light..but for a shorter time frame. With a normal "iris" type
shutter..thats cool. For a focal plane shutter..it sucks badly.

1/60th of a second for the horizontally traveling shutter,
sometimes as fast as 1/120th of a second for vertically traveling

1/250 and even 1/320 is a more typical sync speed for any higher end
camera made since mid 1990s.

shutter. (The Zeiss Contax, and some of the Nikon cameras which came
out after the Nikon F -- the ones with the "Copal Square" shutter.

Few focal plane shutters expose the entire sensor/film at the same
time..ie..opens up wide so the entire sensitive surface gets the light
all at the same time.

Depending on shutter speed. Typically, the travel speed of the
curtains is fixed, and the second curtain (the one which closes) is
released a certain time after the first. This means that below a
certain shutter speed, the first curtain totally clears the frame before
the second starts. The fastest speed at which this happens is typically
marked with an 'X' -- or a different color fill in the shutter speed
dial -- typically red.

Note that back in the days of flashbulbs, there were two basic
types -- the standard ones for between-the-lens shutters, which burned
up to a peak and then started back down shortly after that, and the ones
for focal plane shutters "type F bulbs) which would rapidly build up to
a certain light level, and then keep it at about the same brightness
until the shutter had time to complete its cycle.

Note also that the two curtain approach was standard with 35mm
cameras, but other, larger, cameras like the Speed Graphic (4x5" film)
had a focal plane shutter (as well as a between-the-lens shutter
depending on the lens installed) which had one curtain with several
different width slots (four IIRC), and a separate spring which adjusted
how fast the slots moved. Those got faster speeds with both a narrow
slot and a high tension. There was one slot which opened fully, good
for electronic flash when that came around.

With the new cameras and much smaller sensors..this is changing.

Yes. The Nikon DSLRs have a pair of barn doors which open, and
then an electronic (liquid crystal, IIRC) shutter behind that, so the
exposure can go up to very fast with the full frame exposed.

Proably some of the other high-end DSLRs have that as well.

there is no LCD shutter in any of these cameras. The higher than
mechanical sync speeds are a function of the sensor itself and how data
can be read from it.