All this falderal about Craftsman ............. Mac ........... Proto
............. Snap-on.

Just how many 9/16" wrenches does one guy need? And same with sockets? And
just how good is any 9/16" socket if you don't put a 3/8" to 3/4" adapter on
it with a three foot cheater pipe?

Now, I know there are world's of difference in the ratchet assemblies of
various ratchets with multiple moving parts, but with the rest of it, what's
the big deal?

Having a full on set of Snap-On (substitute the name of any Better than
Yours Tool) does not mean much. Stupid mechanics with a chest full of tools
have a problem of changing plugs without stripping three of eight. True
mechanics can have you back on the road with roadside tools and a drop
light.

It has nothing to do with the tools. It has to do with knowledge. If you
know what you're doing, the tools are secondary.

Steve

On Dec 30, 6:46*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
All this falderal about Craftsman ............. Mac ........... Proto
............ Snap-on.

Just how many 9/16" wrenches does one guy need? *And same with sockets? *And
just how good is any 9/16" socket if you don't put a 3/8" to 3/4" adapter on
it with a three foot cheater pipe?

Now, I know there are world's of difference in the ratchet assemblies of
various ratchets with multiple moving parts, but with the rest of it, what's
the big deal?

Having a full on set of Snap-On (substitute the name of any Better than
Yours Tool) does not mean much. *Stupid mechanics with a chest full of tools
have a problem of changing plugs without stripping three of eight. True
mechanics can have you back on the road with roadside tools and a drop
light.

It has nothing to do with the tools. *It has to do with knowledge. *If you
know what you're doing, the tools are secondary.

Steve

Yes, but good mechanics who make a living with their tools will be
more productive with better tools. There are uses for 12-point sockets
and other uses for 6-point. Sometimes you need narrow walled sockets,
sometimes you need stronger, thicker walled ones. The list goes on and
on.

The tool companies (mostly) don't make all those different wrenches
just so "stupid" mechanics will buy them to decorate their toolboxes.
They make them because they are a better fit for some job or another.
Then, we can talk about all the factory special tools - I have a
drawer full of various special Honda, BMW, Triumph and Norton wrenches
and pullers. Some from the factory and some that I made.

When you're getting paid by the job and not by the hour, having the
right tool can make a world of difference.

In article ,
"Steve B" wrote:

All this falderal about Craftsman ............. Mac ........... Proto
............ Snap-on.

Just how many 9/16" wrenches does one guy need? And same with sockets? And
just how good is any 9/16" socket if you don't put a 3/8" to 3/4" adapter on
it with a three foot cheater pipe?

Now, I know there are world's of difference in the ratchet assemblies of
various ratchets with multiple moving parts, but with the rest of it, what's
the big deal?

Having a full on set of Snap-On (substitute the name of any Better than
Yours Tool) does not mean much. Stupid mechanics with a chest full of tools
have a problem of changing plugs without stripping three of eight. True
mechanics can have you back on the road with roadside tools and a drop
light.

It has nothing to do with the tools. It has to do with knowledge. If you
know what you're doing, the tools are secondary.

Steve

So true....

Erik

Steve, I do not disagree with you, but I have a question. Have you
tried usign Snap-On tools?

i

On 2011-12-30, Steve B wrote:
All this falderal about Craftsman ............. Mac ........... Proto
............ Snap-on.

Just how many 9/16" wrenches does one guy need? And same with sockets? And
just how good is any 9/16" socket if you don't put a 3/8" to 3/4" adapter on
it with a three foot cheater pipe?

Now, I know there are world's of difference in the ratchet assemblies of
various ratchets with multiple moving parts, but with the rest of it, what's
the big deal?

Having a full on set of Snap-On (substitute the name of any Better than
Yours Tool) does not mean much. Stupid mechanics with a chest full of tools
have a problem of changing plugs without stripping three of eight. True
mechanics can have you back on the road with roadside tools and a drop
light.

It has nothing to do with the tools. It has to do with knowledge. If you
know what you're doing, the tools are secondary.

Steve

Steve B wrote:
All this falderal about Craftsman ............. Mac ........... Proto
............ Snap-on.

Just how many 9/16" wrenches does one guy need? And same with sockets? And
just how good is any 9/16" socket if you don't put a 3/8" to 3/4" adapter on
it with a three foot cheater pipe?

Now, I know there are world's of difference in the ratchet assemblies of
various ratchets with multiple moving parts, but with the rest of it, what's
the big deal?

Having a full on set of Snap-On (substitute the name of any Better than
Yours Tool) does not mean much. Stupid mechanics with a chest full of tools
have a problem of changing plugs without stripping three of eight. True
mechanics can have you back on the road with roadside tools and a drop
light.

It has nothing to do with the tools. It has to do with knowledge. If you
know what you're doing, the tools are secondary.

****ty tools don't make the job easier, unless you're into stripping the
heads off fasteners.

On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:46:31 -0800, "Steve B" wrote:

All this falderal about Craftsman ............. Mac ........... Proto
............ Snap-on.

Just how many 9/16" wrenches does one guy need? And same with sockets? And
just how good is any 9/16" socket if you don't put a 3/8" to 3/4" adapter on
it with a three foot cheater pipe?

Now, I know there are world's of difference in the ratchet assemblies of
various ratchets with multiple moving parts, but with the rest of it, what's
the big deal?

Having a full on set of Snap-On (substitute the name of any Better than
Yours Tool) does not mean much. Stupid mechanics with a chest full of tools
have a problem of changing plugs without stripping three of eight. True
mechanics can have you back on the road with roadside tools and a drop
light.

It has nothing to do with the tools. It has to do with knowledge. If you
know what you're doing, the tools are secondary.

Steve

True enough..but getting that distributor lined up without a properly
bent box end can be an utter bitch without the right tool.

VBG

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Ignoramus22134 wrote:
Steve, I do not disagree with you, but I have a question. Have you
tried usign Snap-On tools?

i

Iggy , I have a few Snap-on , and a lot of Craftsman , along with a
scattering of other brands . I don't see a lot of difference . As someone
above said , sometime ya needs a thinwall , sometimes a thick 6 point . So I
do agree with having different wrenches/sockets of the same size . Lately
the first place I check is the local pawn shop ... recently got a dozen 1/4"
drive sockets , all Snap-on and Craftsman , for a buck . Hard to beat those
prices !
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

On 2011-12-30, Steve B wrote:
All this falderal about Craftsman ............. Mac ........... Proto
............ Snap-on.

Just how many 9/16" wrenches does one guy need? And same with
sockets? And just how good is any 9/16" socket if you don't put a
3/8" to 3/4" adapter on it with a three foot cheater pipe?

Now, I know there are world's of difference in the ratchet
assemblies of various ratchets with multiple moving parts, but with
the rest of it, what's the big deal?

Having a full on set of Snap-On (substitute the name of any Better
than Yours Tool) does not mean much. Stupid mechanics with a chest
full of tools have a problem of changing plugs without stripping
three of eight. True mechanics can have you back on the road with
roadside tools and a drop light.

It has nothing to do with the tools. It has to do with knowledge.
If you know what you're doing, the tools are secondary.

Steve

On 2011-12-31, Snag wrote:
Ignoramus22134 wrote:
Steve, I do not disagree with you, but I have a question. Have you
tried usign Snap-On tools?

i

Iggy , I have a few Snap-on , and a lot of Craftsman , along with a
scattering of other brands . I don't see a lot of difference . As someone
above said , sometime ya needs a thinwall , sometimes a thick 6 point . So I
do agree with having different wrenches/sockets of the same size . Lately
the first place I check is the local pawn shop ... recently got a dozen 1/4"
drive sockets , all Snap-on and Craftsman , for a buck . Hard to beat those
prices !

The reason for my question was this:

I buy and sell a lot of stuff, sometimes wrenches. I have about a
dozen sets myself. Mostly Harbor Freight, some Craftsman. A Snap-On
adjustable wrench and a snap-on ratchet.


What I found, for myself, is that more or less all wrenches, except
the cheapest dollar store ones, basically work pretty equally.

However, the Snap-On wrenches are the most pleasant to handle because
of their finish. There is something about them, that makes them more
comfortable.

i

On 12/31/2011 9:20 AM, Ignoramus21023 wrote:
....

What I found, for myself, is that more or less all wrenches, except
the cheapest dollar store ones, basically work pretty equally.

However, the Snap-On wrenches are the most pleasant to handle because
of their finish. There is something about them, that makes them more
comfortable.

And it's the latter that is the reason the professionals continue to buy
them and the other pro-priced tools (as well as the onsite support and
the need for specialty stuff not readily available off-the-rack at Sears).

I returned to the family farm after 30 years away and there are more
tools here than one could shake a stick at--the only Craftsman of any
amount are those I brought home from my household collection other than
some very old from my grandfather's (I'd guess 30's/pre-war 40s at the
latest). Those include a bunch of pipe threaders/cutters, vice, etc.,
that are as well made as anything Ridgid has of similar size and still
use regularly when the task calls.

Mechanics hand tools are all over the map from early no-name stuff to
various sets of S-K, Proto, Thorsten, many others can't come up w/ by
name w/o going out to the shop and sorting through. There are
definitely multiples of almost everything from combination to open-end
to tappet sets to flex head, tubing, ... from ignition point size to
2+". There are box ends that have been cut and handles bent and
extensions welded on (combine beater bars) to all sorts of other odd
modifications for specific purposes and for a single specific
application on one particular piece of equipment; some of which may have
now been gone for 50 years.

All in all, they're all the same except for "fit and finish" -- there
are certain sets that are the ones that are in the front on the racks
that gravitate there because they are indeed the most comfortable and
the others gravitate to the rear or the drawers. Craftsman are _not_ in
that class although they are just as functional as any of the rest but
they simply don't have the feel; particularly the raised centers I don't
care for much and they are in general thicker than the sets that get
used most...

But, the quality as for actually working is fine although I do see a
great reduction in the quality of things like ratchets, etc., on the
shelves today vis a vis those in my collection, the latest of which date
from the 70s-early 80s.

For resale, I'd guess the Craftsman are a pretty decent haul; they're
the first thing the average homeowner joe thinks of even over the
professional names...

--

"dpb" wrote in message ...
...
All in all, they're all the same except for "fit and finish" ...

I keep inexpensive tools in vehicles and use them for maintenance to be sure
I have all the necessary sizes, with backup from the good house set if one
breaks. So far I've only broken one PM 3/8" ratchet handle from Walmart,
when removing a 20-year-old rusty nut in a tight place under the truck and
hammering on the handle. When space allows I break them loose with impact
sockets and a long breaker bar. A drop of LPS3 on the threads keeps them
from being a problem the next time.

jsw

On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 09:20:28 -0600, Ignoramus21023
wrote:

On 2011-12-31, Snag wrote:
Ignoramus22134 wrote:
Steve, I do not disagree with you, but I have a question. Have you
tried usign Snap-On tools?

i

Iggy , I have a few Snap-on , and a lot of Craftsman , along with a
scattering of other brands . I don't see a lot of difference . As someone
above said , sometime ya needs a thinwall , sometimes a thick 6 point . So I
do agree with having different wrenches/sockets of the same size . Lately
the first place I check is the local pawn shop ... recently got a dozen 1/4"
drive sockets , all Snap-on and Craftsman , for a buck . Hard to beat those
prices !

The reason for my question was this:

I buy and sell a lot of stuff, sometimes wrenches. I have about a
dozen sets myself. Mostly Harbor Freight, some Craftsman. A Snap-On
adjustable wrench and a snap-on ratchet.


What I found, for myself, is that more or less all wrenches, except
the cheapest dollar store ones, basically work pretty equally.

Oh, Crom, the super cheapies are a broken hand waiting to happen.


However, the Snap-On wrenches are the most pleasant to handle because
of their finish. There is something about them, that makes them more
comfortable.

That's where we differ. I didn't like the shiny, super-polished and
exceedingly slippery, high chrome finish on most of the SnapOn
ratchets and combo wrenches. Also, the SnapOn wrenches were
knife-edged, hurting your hands unless you were gloved, and sometimes
even then. The cost of comfort is only a few ounces per wrench.
I'm perfectly happy with the Pittsburgh set I picked up from HF to
replace some of the missing wrenches from my old wrenchin' days.
I had a Heinz-57 set after losing some every year due to pilfering.

--
Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air…
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:46:31 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:

All this falderal about Craftsman ............. Mac ........... Proto
............ Snap-on.

Just how many 9/16" wrenches does one guy need? And same with
sockets? And just how good is any 9/16" socket if you don't put a
3/8" to 3/4" adapter on it with a three foot cheater pipe?

Now, I know there are world's of difference in the ratchet
assemblies of various ratchets with multiple moving parts, but with
the rest of it, what's the big deal?

Having a full on set of Snap-On (substitute the name of any Better
than Yours Tool) does not mean much. Stupid mechanics with a chest
full of tools have a problem of changing plugs without stripping
three of eight. True mechanics can have you back on the road with
roadside tools and a drop light.

It has nothing to do with the tools. It has to do with knowledge.
If you know what you're doing, the tools are secondary.

Steve

True enough..but getting that distributor lined up without a properly
bent box end can be an utter bitch without the right tool.

VBG

Gunner

My distributor wrench stays in the truck , since that's the only vehicle I
own with a dist . And yes it's custom bent - from a 9/16" X 5/8" double box
wrench .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !

On Dec 31, 12:01*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:

That's where we differ. I didn't like the shiny, super-polished and
exceedingly slippery, high chrome finish on most of the SnapOn
ratchets and combo wrenches. Also, the SnapOn wrenches were
knife-edged, hurting your hands unless you were gloved, and sometimes
even then. *The cost of comfort is only a few ounces per wrench.

I have to say that, though I've never tried them, those Craftsman "X"
wrenches (the ones with the 90 degree twist in the handle) look pretty
interesting from a comfort standpoint. You could really yank on them
without cutting your hand in half.

"Ignoramus22134" wrote in message
news
Steve, I do not disagree with you, but I have a question. Have you
tried usign Snap-On tools?

i

Yes. I even have a Snap-On parts washer, which further illustrates my
point. $15 at a yard sale. Probably $6,000 new. Just how good does a
parts washer have to be?

Snap-On probably has better than average internal parts on such things as
ratchets, torque wrenches, etc. But, unless you are using a 9/16" wrench
for something it was not designed for, what's the difference. Except a
little softer metal?

They're like having a $300 cigarette lighter.

Steve

"John B." wrote

But more realistically, there are a host of jobs that you simply
cannot accomplish if you don't have the correct puller, spanner,
whatever.

--
John B.

True. Yet I still see gear pullers priced from $19.99 at HF to $479.99 at
Graingers, and most of the time, they will both get the gear off. And the
longevity of the item has a LOT to do with the skill and finesse of the
mechanic using it. (As well as the original metallurgy.) Still HF will
give you another if one fails .......... generally. If you bring in
employees, all bets are off, as they can screw up an anvil.

Steve

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:46:31 -0800, "Steve B" wrote:

All this falderal about Craftsman ............. Mac ........... Proto
............ Snap-on.

Just how many 9/16" wrenches does one guy need? And same with sockets?
And
just how good is any 9/16" socket if you don't put a 3/8" to 3/4" adapter
on
it with a three foot cheater pipe?

Now, I know there are world's of difference in the ratchet assemblies of
various ratchets with multiple moving parts, but with the rest of it,
what's
the big deal?

Having a full on set of Snap-On (substitute the name of any Better than
Yours Tool) does not mean much. Stupid mechanics with a chest full of
tools
have a problem of changing plugs without stripping three of eight. True
mechanics can have you back on the road with roadside tools and a drop
light.

It has nothing to do with the tools. It has to do with knowledge. If you
know what you're doing, the tools are secondary.

Steve

True enough..but getting that distributor lined up without a properly
bent box end can be an utter bitch without the right tool.

VBG

Gunner

That's why they make distributor wrenches and smoke wrenches. I think every
good mechanic out there has a wrench they've altered with heat, or added a
section to, or modified one way or the other rather than going and paying
the big bucks the stores want.

Well, one here, anyway.

Steve

On 12/31/2011 12:50 PM, Steve B wrote:
....

Snap-On probably has better than average internal parts on such things as
ratchets, torque wrenches, etc. But, unless you are using a 9/16" wrench
for something it was not designed for, what's the difference. Except a
little softer metal?

They're like having a $300 cigarette lighter.
....

So Jascha Heifetz might as well have played a $50 pawnshop fiddle...

--

"dpb" wrote in message ...
On 12/31/2011 12:50 PM, Steve B wrote:
...

Snap-On probably has better than average internal parts on such things as
ratchets, torque wrenches, etc. But, unless you are using a 9/16" wrench
for something it was not designed for, what's the difference. Except a
little softer metal?

They're like having a $300 cigarette lighter.
...

So Jascha Heifetz might as well have played a $50 pawnshop fiddle...

I guess you are right. There are light years difference between removing a
9/16" bolt from a lawnmower with a fifty cent made in India wrench, and one
of those $1,000 Skylab ones. I stand corrected.

Steve

On 2011-12-31, dpb wrote:
On 12/31/2011 9:20 AM, Ignoramus21023 wrote:
...

What I found, for myself, is that more or less all wrenches, except
the cheapest dollar store ones, basically work pretty equally.

However, the Snap-On wrenches are the most pleasant to handle because
of their finish. There is something about them, that makes them more
comfortable.

And it's the latter that is the reason the professionals continue to buy
them and the other pro-priced tools (as well as the onsite support and
the need for specialty stuff not readily available off-the-rack at Sears).

I returned to the family farm after 30 years away and there are more
tools here than one could shake a stick at--the only Craftsman of any
amount are those I brought home from my household collection other than
some very old from my grandfather's (I'd guess 30's/pre-war 40s at the
latest). Those include a bunch of pipe threaders/cutters, vice, etc.,
that are as well made as anything Ridgid has of similar size and still
use regularly when the task calls.

Mechanics hand tools are all over the map from early no-name stuff to
various sets of S-K, Proto, Thorsten, many others can't come up w/ by
name w/o going out to the shop and sorting through. There are
definitely multiples of almost everything from combination to open-end
to tappet sets to flex head, tubing, ... from ignition point size to
2+". There are box ends that have been cut and handles bent and
extensions welded on (combine beater bars) to all sorts of other odd
modifications for specific purposes and for a single specific
application on one particular piece of equipment; some of which may have
now been gone for 50 years.

All in all, they're all the same except for "fit and finish" -- there
are certain sets that are the ones that are in the front on the racks
that gravitate there because they are indeed the most comfortable and
the others gravitate to the rear or the drawers. Craftsman are _not_ in
that class although they are just as functional as any of the rest but
they simply don't have the feel; particularly the raised centers I don't
care for much and they are in general thicker than the sets that get
used most...

But, the quality as for actually working is fine although I do see a
great reduction in the quality of things like ratchets, etc., on the
shelves today vis a vis those in my collection, the latest of which date
from the 70s-early 80s.

For resale, I'd guess the Craftsman are a pretty decent haul; they're
the first thing the average homeowner joe thinks of even over the
professional names...

--


You summed it pretty well.

i

On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 10:56:01 -0800, "Steve B" wrote:


"John B." wrote

But more realistically, there are a host of jobs that you simply
cannot accomplish if you don't have the correct puller, spanner,
whatever.

--
John B.

True. Yet I still see gear pullers priced from $19.99 at HF to $479.99 at
Graingers, and most of the time, they will both get the gear off. And the
longevity of the item has a LOT to do with the skill and finesse of the
mechanic using it. (As well as the original metallurgy.) Still HF will
give you another if one fails .......... generally. If you bring in
employees, all bets are off, as they can screw up an anvil.

Steve

Ive used HF gear pullers in machine tool repair for years..and have
found that while they are good for onesy twosy jobs...they dont hold up
for extended periods of time. Which is why Ive stocked up on (used)
Proto gear pullers and some other name..cant remember which at the
moment..Ill have to go look..big set...heavy..got a bunch of them. And
Ive even broken them. I pulled a 3' flywheel off an air compressor...50
hp..and it was well rusted on..and stripped out the threads on a
Proto..so went home and got one of the BIG pullers (cant remember the
damned name) and pulled it with that.

So HF pullers are Ok...for the average home user..but they dont hold up
well in industrial settings.

Serious difference in price too, unless you find used sets VBG

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 12:29:39 -0600, "Snag" wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:46:31 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:

All this falderal about Craftsman ............. Mac ........... Proto
............ Snap-on.

Just how many 9/16" wrenches does one guy need? And same with
sockets? And just how good is any 9/16" socket if you don't put a
3/8" to 3/4" adapter on it with a three foot cheater pipe?

Now, I know there are world's of difference in the ratchet
assemblies of various ratchets with multiple moving parts, but with
the rest of it, what's the big deal?

Having a full on set of Snap-On (substitute the name of any Better
than Yours Tool) does not mean much. Stupid mechanics with a chest
full of tools have a problem of changing plugs without stripping
three of eight. True mechanics can have you back on the road with
roadside tools and a drop light.

It has nothing to do with the tools. It has to do with knowledge.
If you know what you're doing, the tools are secondary.

Steve

True enough..but getting that distributor lined up without a properly
bent box end can be an utter bitch without the right tool.

VBG

Gunner

My distributor wrench stays in the truck , since that's the only vehicle I
own with a dist . And yes it's custom bent - from a 9/16" X 5/8" double box
wrench .

Ive got 4 different onces..all commerically made, different sizes..I
think they cost me a buck each or so at yard sales/swap meets.

Dont use em a lot..only 2 vehicles with distributors..but they get
loaned out 4-6 times a year to people I trust.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On 2011-12-31, John B wrote:

[ ... ]

As for 9/16" wrenches you certainly need at least two if only so that
you have one to work with after you have dropped one down in the bilge
and can't fish it out :-)

Make that three, because you sometimes need one to hold the head
of the bolt while a second one is turning the nut (assuming not enough
clearance to get a ratchet on either). And count the one which went in
the bilge

But more realistically, there are a host of jobs that you simply
cannot accomplish if you don't have the correct puller, spanner,
whatever.

Agreed. Or unless you modify spare tools to make the special
tool which you need. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2011-12-31, John B wrote:

[ ... ]

As for 9/16" wrenches you certainly need at least two if only so that
you have one to work with after you have dropped one down in the bilge
and can't fish it out :-)

Make that three, because you sometimes need one to hold the head
of the bolt while a second one is turning the nut (assuming not enough
clearance to get a ratchet on either). And count the one which went in
the bilge

But more realistically, there are a host of jobs that you simply
cannot accomplish if you don't have the correct puller, spanner,
whatever.

Agreed. Or unless you modify spare tools to make the special
tool which you need. :-)

7/16, 1/2, 9/16, and 10mm. I have probably ten different brands of each of
those three wrenches. I don't know how many times I have gone into whatever
local store was closest and bought whatever brand they had because I needed
one more wrench to finish the job I was working on. Don't get me started on
screwdrivers.

My Dad always says, there are three things you can never have to much of.
Rope, fish hooks, and screwdrivers.

On 12/31/2011 3:22 PM, Steve B wrote:
wrote in message ...
On 12/31/2011 12:50 PM, Steve B wrote:
...
....

They're like having a $300 cigarette lighter.
...

So Jascha Heifetz might as well have played a $50 pawnshop fiddle...

I guess you are right. There are light years difference between removing a
9/16" bolt from a lawnmower with a fifty cent made in India wrench, and one
of those $1,000 Skylab ones. I stand corrected.

You're welcome....

--

"Snag" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus22134 wrote:
Steve, I do not disagree with you, but I have a question. Have you
tried usign Snap-On tools?

i

Iggy , I have a few Snap-on , and a lot of Craftsman , along with a
scattering of other brands . I don't see a lot of difference . As someone
above said , sometime ya needs a thinwall , sometimes a thick 6 point . So
I do agree with having different wrenches/sockets of the same size .
Lately the first place I check is the local pawn shop ... recently got a
dozen 1/4" drive sockets , all Snap-on and Craftsman , for a buck . Hard
to beat those prices !
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !



To answer your question, there is a differance! For example, years ago we
were trying to remove a brake caliper on a car. The only tool that could
reach it was an 17 MM open end wrench, a socket, or even a box end would not
fit. We broke two Craftsman wrenches trying to get that bolt out. I borrowed
a Sanp-On from another mechanic and it removed the bolts out of both
calipers just fine. I will admit, we were abusing the tools by standing and
bouncing on the the wrench to break them loose, but the Snap-On took the
abuse where the Craftsman would not. Also Snap-On machines their open end
wrenches better. You can take a rounded off head that a Craftsman just slips
on and use a standard Snap-On 12 point box end and it will not slip unless
the bolt head is severely rounded.

The worst part is the price. Years ago I bought a metric combination wrench
set from Sears. I think I paid less than $30 for the set. A few months later
I bought a Comparible Snap-On set and it was over $200!
Snap-On makes great tool, but at a premium price that excludes many people.

Greg O

On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 14:53:20 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:


My Dad always says, there are three things you can never have to much of.
Rope, fish hooks, and screwdrivers.

You forgot clamps. I have over 50 in various sizes and
sometimes still do not have enough. Bought 3 more a few days ago (all
the store had) for welding hold-downs.

Alan

On 2012-01-02, wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 14:53:20 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:


My Dad always says, there are three things you can never have to much of.
Rope, fish hooks, and screwdrivers.

You forgot clamps. I have over 50 in various sizes and
sometimes still do not have enough. Bought 3 more a few days ago (all
the store had) for welding hold-downs.

And lifting chains.

i

On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 10:00:06 -0600, Ignoramus21697
wrote:

On 2012-01-02, wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 14:53:20 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:


My Dad always says, there are three things you can never have to much of.
Rope, fish hooks, and screwdrivers.

You forgot clamps. I have over 50 in various sizes and
sometimes still do not have enough. Bought 3 more a few days ago (all
the store had) for welding hold-downs.

And lifting chains.

i

It's all a matter of perspective. For me, it's fillet knives and
sharpening stones. I can fillet just about anything. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

But more realistically, there are a host of jobs that you simply
cannot accomplish if you don't have the correct puller, spanner,
whatever.

Like changing a oil filter on a 2006 Ram Cummins. You have to be strong as
a gorilla, have to be able to lay on your back, and reach up and take 1/8
turn at a time. That is, when you get the workings of a regular filter
wrench on there.

So, I butchered a filter wrench, cutting off the handle, welding on a socket
with a 1/4" drive end. And still, you have to put the wrench up there, hold
it, insert the extension and driver, and click it all together. WTF are
some of these engineers thinking about when they design some of these
things. You can put an oil filter in a lot of places, many much easier to
reach than where they put them now. Loosening motormounts to remove spark
plugs on some cars, things like that.

Steve

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 14:53:20 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:


My Dad always says, there are three things you can never have to much of.
Rope, fish hooks, and screwdrivers.

You forgot clamps. I have over 50 in various sizes and
sometimes still do not have enough. Bought 3 more a few days ago (all
the store had) for welding hold-downs.

Alan

If you weld, you cannot have enough clamps. All types. Once I get set up
welding again, I shall buy more on ebay. Hint: search "vice" grips.

Steve

Some are under a crossbar or other concealed place (covertly away from
rocks). Either the plugs or oil has to be that way.

Martin


On 1/2/2012 7:40 PM, Steve B wrote:
But more realistically, there are a host of jobs that you simply
cannot accomplish if you don't have the correct puller, spanner,
whatever.

Like changing a oil filter on a 2006 Ram Cummins. You have to be strong as
a gorilla, have to be able to lay on your back, and reach up and take 1/8
turn at a time. That is, when you get the workings of a regular filter
wrench on there.

So, I butchered a filter wrench, cutting off the handle, welding on a socket
with a 1/4" drive end. And still, you have to put the wrench up there, hold
it, insert the extension and driver, and click it all together. WTF are
some of these engineers thinking about when they design some of these
things. You can put an oil filter in a lot of places, many much easier to
reach than where they put them now. Loosening motormounts to remove spark
plugs on some cars, things like that.

Steve

On Mon, 02 Jan 2012 17:40:14 -0800, Steve B wrote:



Like changing a oil filter on a 2006 Ram Cummins. You have to be strong
as
a gorilla, have to be able to lay on your back, and reach up and take 1/8
turn at a time. That is, when you get the workings of a regular filter
wrench on there.

So, I butchered a filter wrench, cutting off the handle, welding on a
socket
with a 1/4" drive end. And still, you have to put the wrench up there,
hold
it, insert the extension and driver, and click it all together. WTF are
some of these engineers thinking about when they design some of these
things. You can put an oil filter in a lot of places, many much easier
to
reach than where they put them now. Loosening motormounts to remove
spark
plugs on some cars, things like that.


No argument that there are plenty of poor designs for accessibility, but
as far as the Ram Cummins goes, using the right filter wrench will make it
pretty easy. I bought a Ram with a Cummins in '93, presently have an '05,
one of the first things I did in '93 was get a filter wrench that would
work well.

It has 2 spring loaded jaws that will grip the filter from the bottom.
The wrench takes a 3/8 square drive in the bottom. Put the wrench on an
extension or 2 to get down in the clear, put a ratchet or break-over bar
on the end of the extension and turn as if to tighten the filter while
pushing up. The jaws expand and slide up on the filter. Then unscrew the
filter, the jaws on the wrench will hold it while you bring it down and
remove the extensions. With a little care you won't even spill any oil.

The wrench is well made and sturdy, I've taken off a seriously stuck
filter on a neighbors tractor without damage to the wrench, although the
filter didn't look too happy. I think it may be a Lisle, but it's down in
the shop and I'm not going down there tonight to look, there are other
similar wrenches.

WayneJ

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 14:53:20 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:


My Dad always says, there are three things you can never have to much of.
Rope, fish hooks, and screwdrivers.

You forgot clamps. I have over 50 in various sizes and
sometimes still do not have enough. Bought 3 more a few days ago (all
the store had) for welding hold-downs.

Alan



Yep! Clamps are always in short supply. When you've run out of clamps, it
means the job is just over half done!

On Jan 2, 8:43*pm, "Steve B" wrote:
wrote in message

...

On Sun, 1 Jan 2012 14:53:20 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

My Dad always says, there are three things you can never have to much of.
Rope, fish hooks, and screwdrivers.

You forgot clamps. * *I have over 50 in various sizes and
sometimes still do not have enough. *Bought 3 more a few days ago (all
the store had) for welding hold-downs.

Alan

If you weld, you cannot have enough clamps. *All types. *Once I get set up
welding again, I shall buy more on ebay. *Hint: *search "vice" grips.

Steve

If you don't weld, you need even more clamps to hold together things
that you otherwise would have welded.

"WayneJ" wrote


No argument that there are plenty of poor designs for accessibility, but
as far as the Ram Cummins goes, using the right filter wrench will make it
pretty easy. I bought a Ram with a Cummins in '93, presently have an '05,
one of the first things I did in '93 was get a filter wrench that would
work well.

It has 2 spring loaded jaws that will grip the filter from the bottom.
The wrench takes a 3/8 square drive in the bottom. Put the wrench on an
extension or 2 to get down in the clear, put a ratchet or break-over bar
on the end of the extension and turn as if to tighten the filter while
pushing up. The jaws expand and slide up on the filter. Then unscrew the
filter, the jaws on the wrench will hold it while you bring it down and
remove the extensions. With a little care you won't even spill any oil.

The wrench is well made and sturdy, I've taken off a seriously stuck
filter on a neighbors tractor without damage to the wrench, although the
filter didn't look too happy. I think it may be a Lisle, but it's down in
the shop and I'm not going down there tonight to look, there are other
similar wrenches.

WayneJ

I looked at several, and gagged every time I got to the price tag. So, I
took one of six extra filter tools, a cheap socket, and made a workable
wrench. It ain't perfect, but it works. Those damn engineers should have
to go to those motorcycle/auto schools for two years that I see advertised
all over now, and see how their hair brained ideas work in the real world.

I nostalgically look back at the '55-'57 Chevies. What a piece of art
mechanically! Wow, if we only had air tools way back then. Well, they
probably did, but not us 16 year olds.

Steve

"Grumpy" wrote



Yep! Clamps are always in short supply. When you've run out of clamps, it
means the job is just over half done!

When I had my welding business, I bet I had six dozen clamps. Most every
type Irvin made. Lots of table work on fancy wrought iron. Heavy table and
lots of clamps, and a good bit of attention to detail = square and flat.

Steve