My lawn mower blades get dinged up real good by sticks and small rocks.
Grinding them takes me a long time, 2 blades, 4 edges.
Is there any reason why I couldn't set up the angle in the mill
and clean them up with an end mill?
I would think this would be a lot faster.
I could always grind in the final edge.

If this isn't a good idea, then everyone should forget I asked a stupid
question.

Wayne D.

On 05/09/2011 04:10 PM, Wayne wrote:
My lawn mower blades get dinged up real good by sticks and small rocks.
Grinding them takes me a long time, 2 blades, 4 edges.
Is there any reason why I couldn't set up the angle in the mill
and clean them up with an end mill?
I would think this would be a lot faster.
I could always grind in the final edge.

If this isn't a good idea, then everyone should forget I asked a stupid
question.

I've seen someone here report on doing it just that way for commercial
mowers.

Given that the blades seem to be fairly soft (and that they need to be,
as one may not want one's blade to fracture), trying to get the World's
Sharpest Edge on one's lawn mower blade may just be a waste of time
after the first 100 blades of grass get cut.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

"Wayne" wrote in message
...
My lawn mower blades get dinged up real good by sticks and small rocks.
Grinding them takes me a long time, 2 blades, 4 edges.
Is there any reason why I couldn't set up the angle in the mill
and clean them up with an end mill?
I would think this would be a lot faster.
I could always grind in the final edge.

If this isn't a good idea, then everyone should forget I asked a stupid
question.

Wayne D.

I saw one of those programs on cutting devices, and the blades for those
machines that eat anything were sharpened with some very simple grinders
mounted at the proper angle.

But then, how would one test the proper angle on an actual lawn, and how
would you know when you had it just right? I'd say that close enough would
be close enough, even with a hand held sharpening device. At that rpm, even
a blunt edge would cut, but definitely anything with any angle would leave a
little cleaner looking lawn, and perhaps even produce a more shredded mulch.

Steve

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
On 05/09/2011 04:10 PM, Wayne wrote:
My lawn mower blades get dinged up real good by sticks and small rocks.
Grinding them takes me a long time, 2 blades, 4 edges.
Is there any reason why I couldn't set up the angle in the mill
and clean them up with an end mill?
I would think this would be a lot faster.
I could always grind in the final edge.

If this isn't a good idea, then everyone should forget I asked a stupid
question.

I've seen someone here report on doing it just that way for commercial
mowers.

Given that the blades seem to be fairly soft (and that they need to be, as
one may not want one's blade to fracture),

Soft? I don't think *that* soft, and a super-TOUGH material.... holy
****.....

I think the op's complaint about grinding is precisely because these blades
ARE so tough!

Milling, I think, would be fine, but my lawnmover blades seem to have some
complex angles and twists.
But if you can set up your machine to do it, and it doesn't eat up yer end
mills, then it might be a good strategy.

Mebbe clamping the blade in a bench vise and having at it with a 4 1/2"
angle grinder would be effective, as well.
As time alluded, you don't need a chef's edge here.
--
EA


trying to get the World's
Sharpest Edge on one's lawn mower blade may just be a waste of time after
the first 100 blades of grass get cut.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Mon, 09 May 2011 18:10:14 -0500, Wayne
wrote:

My lawn mower blades get dinged up real good by sticks and small rocks.
Grinding them takes me a long time, 2 blades, 4 edges.
Is there any reason why I couldn't set up the angle in the mill
and clean them up with an end mill?
I would think this would be a lot faster.
I could always grind in the final edge.

If this isn't a good idea, then everyone should forget I asked a stupid
question.

Wayne D.

Try it. Let us know if it saves time. My guess is it will take longer
unless you got a nifty quick way to mount at an angle. Of course, I
have a nice six inch bench grinder with a coarse stone. If you got a
smaller grinder, the mill may come out faster.

Tim Wescott fired this volley in news:ibSdnfQjcb-
:

I've seen someone here report on doing it just that way for commercial
mowers.


That'd be me.

Oregon makes the blades for the Scagg 61" commercial mowers. They are
_adamant_ about milling them with a face mill rather than grinding them.

They supply them as new milled, and they specify the angle and remaining
width of cutting backup area for new milling. Until they become narrower
than spec, you just keep on milling new faces. I get about 30 acres per
sharpening for a three-blade set now, up from my original 18. It has
more to do with the fact that I've finally cut up and and not now re-
cutting all the thatch than with the method.

I built up a permanent angle jig out of a block of 6061 to hold mine, and
use a small carbide insert face mill to produce the edges.

One benefit is that it never overheats the metal. The other is that they
come out virtually perfectly balanced every time.

LLoyd

On May 9, 7:14*pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Tim Wescott fired this volley in news:ibSdnfQjcb-
:

I've seen someone here report on doing it just that way for commercial
mowers.

That'd be me.

Oregon makes the blades for the Scagg 61" commercial mowers. *They are
_adamant_ about milling them with a face mill rather than grinding them.

They supply them as new milled, and they specify the angle and remaining
width of cutting backup area for new milling. *Until they become narrower
than spec, you just keep on milling new faces. *I get about 30 acres per
sharpening for a three-blade set now, up from my original 18. *It has
more to do with the fact that I've finally cut up and and not now re-
cutting all the thatch than with the method.

I built up a permanent angle jig out of a block of 6061 to hold mine, and
use a small carbide insert face mill to produce the edges.

One benefit is that it never overheats the metal. *The other is that they
come out virtually perfectly balanced every time.

LLoyd

Many years ago when I was clearing property with a Gravely two wheel
tractor, I used hard surface welding rod to build up the cutting edge
of the 30" mower. Never had to sharpen that blade again. One time I
hit a piece of RR track buried in an anthill. Busted a two inch chunk
from the RR iron but the blade did not even get a nick. Been 45 years
ago and I do not remember what rod I used, just that I used an
electric rod but applied it with a torch.

In article ,
Wayne wrote:

My lawn mower blades get dinged up real good by sticks and small rocks.
Grinding them takes me a long time, 2 blades, 4 edges.
Is there any reason why I couldn't set up the angle in the mill
and clean them up with an end mill?
I would think this would be a lot faster.
I could always grind in the final edge.

If this isn't a good idea, then everyone should forget I asked a stupid
question.

Wayne D.

It will probably work, but I can't see it being fast.

Try an angle grinder and discs rather than a bench grinder. Works way
faster for me.

There's no need, or use, in getting every nick all the way out - you go
mow, there will be new nicks.

Belt grinder would probably also work faster.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

On 5/9/2011 8:26 PM, Ecnerwal wrote:
In ,
wrote:

My lawn mower blades get dinged up real good by sticks and small rocks.
Grinding them takes me a long time, 2 blades, 4 edges.
Is there any reason why I couldn't set up the angle in the mill
and clean them up with an end mill?
I would think this would be a lot faster.
I could always grind in the final edge.

If this isn't a good idea, then everyone should forget I asked a stupid
question.

Wayne D.

It will probably work, but I can't see it being fast.

Try an angle grinder and discs rather than a bench grinder. Works way
faster for me.

There's no need, or use, in getting every nick all the way out - you go
mow, there will be new nicks.

Belt grinder would probably also work faster.

I just use a file, doesn't heat up the steel, doesn't take _that_ long.

--
:3 )~

"Ecnerwal" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Wayne wrote:

My lawn mower blades get dinged up real good by sticks and small rocks.
Grinding them takes me a long time, 2 blades, 4 edges.
Is there any reason why I couldn't set up the angle in the mill
and clean them up with an end mill?
I would think this would be a lot faster.
I could always grind in the final edge.

If this isn't a good idea, then everyone should forget I asked a stupid
question.

Wayne D.

It will probably work, but I can't see it being fast.

Try an angle grinder and discs rather than a bench grinder. Works way
faster for me.

Yeah, I've used both, but now I only use a little 4" angle-head grinder. The
wheel isn't quite as cool-cutting as a coarse wheel on a bench grinder, but
it's so much easier to hold the right angle, and to see what you're doing,
that the job goes much faster even though you have to let the blade cool
after every few passes.

Not that the stuff they make blades out of is likely to suffer from some
overheating, but I just hate to see that blue color on steel while I'm
grinding it.



There's no need, or use, in getting every nick all the way out - you go
mow, there will be new nicks.

Belt grinder would probably also work faster.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

Wayne wrote:

My lawn mower blades get dinged up real good by sticks and small rocks.
Grinding them takes me a long time, 2 blades, 4 edges.
Is there any reason why I couldn't set up the angle in the mill
and clean them up with an end mill?
I would think this would be a lot faster.
I could always grind in the final edge.

If this isn't a good idea, then everyone should forget I asked a stupid
question.

Actually, it sounds brilliant! I once spent almost two days standing in
front of the bench grinder making a blade from scratch out of a piece
of spring steel, 3" x 1/4" (about the size of a mower blade). But I
admit I'd be a little reluctant to cut spring steel on a mill; but
ordinary A36 or even O1 should be a snap. And you could get that
"hollow ground" effect by using the right size of ball end mill. :-)

Have Fun!
Rich

I have 20" carbide blades on my 21" self-propelled mower. I thought I would
try them before spending $90 on a set of mulching carbide blades. I am not
sure if they are available anymore.

---------------

"Gerry" wrote in message
...
Many years ago when I was clearing property with a Gravely two wheel
tractor, I used hard surface welding rod to build up the cutting edge
of the 30" mower. Never had to sharpen that blade again. One time I
hit a piece of RR track buried in an anthill. Busted a two inch chunk
from the RR iron but the blade did not even get a nick. Been 45 years
ago and I do not remember what rod I used, just that I used an
electric rod but applied it with a torch.

Steve B wrote:
"Wayne" wrote in message
...
My lawn mower blades get dinged up real good by sticks and small rocks.
Grinding them takes me a long time, 2 blades, 4 edges.
Is there any reason why I couldn't set up the angle in the mill
and clean them up with an end mill?
I would think this would be a lot faster.
I could always grind in the final edge.

If this isn't a good idea, then everyone should forget I asked a stupid
question.

I saw one of those programs on cutting devices, and the blades for those
machines that eat anything were sharpened with some very simple grinders
mounted at the proper angle.

But then, how would one test the proper angle on an actual lawn, and how
would you know when you had it just right?

I'd start with 20 degrees (I think) - that's the angle you're suposed to
hold your Boy Scout knife while stoning it.

But I once bought a mobile home that came with the mower, and the blade
was BLUNT! A buddy across town had a wheel that he mounted in his hand
drill, and eyeballed it, and it made a world of differencce!

Cheers!
Rich

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brows....jsp?locale=en

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brows....jsp?locale=en

----------------------

"Wayne" wrote in message ...

My lawn mower blades get dinged up real good by sticks and small rocks.
Grinding them takes me a long time, 2 blades, 4 edges.
Is there any reason why I couldn't set up the angle in the mill
and clean them up with an end mill?
I would think this would be a lot faster.
I could always grind in the final edge.

If this isn't a good idea, then everyone should forget I asked a stupid
question.

Wayne D.

Mouse wrote:
On 5/9/2011 8:26 PM, Ecnerwal wrote:
In ,
wrote:

My lawn mower blades get dinged up real good by sticks and small rocks.
Grinding them takes me a long time, 2 blades, 4 edges.
Is there any reason why I couldn't set up the angle in the mill
and clean them up with an end mill?
I would think this would be a lot faster.
I could always grind in the final edge.

If this isn't a good idea, then everyone should forget I asked a stupid
question.

It will probably work, but I can't see it being fast.

Try an angle grinder and discs rather than a bench grinder. Works way
faster for me.

There's no need, or use, in getting every nick all the way out - you go
mow, there will be new nicks.

Belt grinder would probably also work faster.

I just use a file, doesn't heat up the steel, doesn't take _that_ long.

Well, yeah, if you sharpen the blade about once a week. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

"Mouse" wrote in message
...
On 5/9/2011 8:26 PM, Ecnerwal wrote:
In ,
wrote:

My lawn mower blades get dinged up real good by sticks and small rocks.
Grinding them takes me a long time, 2 blades, 4 edges.
Is there any reason why I couldn't set up the angle in the mill
and clean them up with an end mill?
I would think this would be a lot faster.
I could always grind in the final edge.

If this isn't a good idea, then everyone should forget I asked a stupid
question.

Wayne D.

It will probably work, but I can't see it being fast.

Try an angle grinder and discs rather than a bench grinder. Works way
faster for me.

There's no need, or use, in getting every nick all the way out - you go
mow, there will be new nicks.

Belt grinder would probably also work faster.

I just use a file, doesn't heat up the steel, doesn't take _that_ long.



I just use a brush hog first.

--

As fast as they spin, the balancing is important, also. I've
seen mowers out of balance, it's not fun.

I put a nail in the wall, leave an inch or so unpounded.
Hang the blade on that. Side to side, like a bow tie. Let
go. The end that goes down needs more grinding.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Rich Grise" wrote in message
...

I'd start with 20 degrees (I think) - that's the angle
you're suposed to
hold your Boy Scout knife while stoning it.

But I once bought a mobile home that came with the mower,
and the blade
was BLUNT! A buddy across town had a wheel that he mounted
in his hand
drill, and eyeballed it, and it made a world of differencce!

Cheers!
Rich

On May 9, 5:10*pm, Wayne wrote:
My lawn mower blades get dinged up real good by sticks and small rocks.
Grinding them takes me a long time, 2 blades, 4 edges.
Is there any reason why I couldn't set up the angle in the mill
and clean them up with an end mill?
I would think this would be a lot faster.
I could always grind in the final edge.

If this isn't a good idea, then everyone should forget I asked a stupid
question.

Wayne D.

Belt grinder with a coarse belt fixes mine up in short order. Lotsa
rocks...
Don't need a scalpel edge for whacking grass, a 40 grit one works just
fine.

Stan

Slightly off-thread:

I once had a 30" Gravely mower with a monster blade: about 3/8" thick by
3" wide & 30" long. As the end kept getting narrower and narrower
from sharpening and I put off buying a new one ($$), it occurred to me
that I could make it into a flail mower by cutting off the narrow ends
and bolting on short flails. Those flails could even be pieces of 21"
mower blades, which could be had for no cost (dump).

I sold the mower before I had to do anything about the blade, but would
the conversion-to-flail have been a good idea?

Bob

Bob Engelhardt wrote:

Slightly off-thread:

I once had a 30" Gravely mower with a monster blade: about 3/8" thick by
3" wide & 30" long. As the end kept getting narrower and narrower
from sharpening and I put off buying a new one ($$), it occurred to me
that I could make it into a flail mower by cutting off the narrow ends
and bolting on short flails. Those flails could even be pieces of 21"
mower blades, which could be had for no cost (dump).

I sold the mower before I had to do anything about the blade, but would
the conversion-to-flail have been a good idea?

I wouldn't go through the rigamarole of arranging flail ends - I'd just
grab a couple of pieces of scrap and tack on what's essentially new
edges.

Cheers!
Rich

I think you would waste a lot of blade material by milling. The problem
that I have is that the tips of the blades wear away faster than the rest of
the cutting surface. So one straight cut won't do it. I have 2 old Cub
Cadets with 3 blades each to sharpen. I simply use an old 6" bench grinder.
That way, I can sharpen the worn tip by following the worn edge by eye.
BTW, if I am feeling particularly cheap, I heat the tip and forge material
from the back side of the tip toward the front to give me an extra year or
two of use--- just like they used to do to "sharpen" a plow share.

Pete Stanaitis
----------------

"Pete S" fired this volley in
:

I think you would waste a lot of blade material by milling. The
problem that I have is that the tips of the blades wear away faster
than the rest of the cutting surface.

That's why the acceptable profile may include an angle from inside to
tip.

Yes, you remove more metal by milling than by "selective" grinding, but
there are advantages.

One: once it's jigged up the first time, it takes only two or three
minutes to mill the ends, and the blades are usually spot-on for balance
after.
Two: A "hollow grind" was suggested here... that's wrong on a mower
blade. When so done, the edge wears faster, and the "shoulder" at the
back of the hollow erodes quickly if there's any sand in your mowing
field.
Three: It's what Oregon recommends for optimum cutting with their blades.

I get roughly 30 acres per sharpening -- that's five mowings of the area
I mow weekly. A blade lasts through about 10-15 sharpenings.

So, I get more than a whole year's worth of mowing from one set of
blades, and a new set of three is about $40. For me, at least, it's
worth it to get that "golf course" look in the front of my property.

I have three "working" sets used in rotation, so I don't have to stop for
sharpening, if I decide they need it. It only takes five minutes to
change a set of blades on the Scagg 61" deck. Except for dropping the
blade bolts out of the spindle bores, it's all done from the top of the
deck, with no removals or loosening of any other components.

LLoyd

On May 11, 10:28*am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

So, I get more than a whole year's worth of mowing from one set of
blades, and a new set of three is about $40. *For me, at least, it's
worth it to get that "golf course" look in the front of my property.

Aside from the golf course look, what benefit do you derive from your
lawn? In my mind, the grass in front of my house is nothing more than
a weed. It serves no purpose whatsoever. If it was up to me, we'd be
growing edible vegetables instead (our vegetable garden is in the back
yard).

My office is in my house. There are days when I can't leave the
windows open because of the more-or-less continuous noise and smell
from the landscapers. 5 guys with leaf blowers and giant riding mowers
to deal with a 50'x100' lot (with a house on it) is pretty excessive,
but that's the norm around here. I mow my lawn in about 5 minutes,
using a hand trimmer to get around the trees (another two minutes) and
I'm done.

People ask why there are more birds and butterflies in my yard than in
theirs. They don't seem to understand the evils of monoculture (see
Irish potato famine) and chemical herbicides and pesticides. One
neighbor (across the street) just planted tomatoes in front of her
house. Very nice, but they are in a garden bed that her landscaper
poisons every week. Sheesh. She's also a couple of weeks early putting
in the tomatoes - the nights still get pretty cool here, but she'll
learn.

Here are some thoughts about the tremendous waste of resources and
money that go into a putting green front yard: http://www.primalseeds.org/lawns.htm

rangerssuck fired this volley in news:0197325e-
:

Aside from the golf course look, what benefit do you derive from your
lawn? In my mind, the grass in front of my house is nothing more than
a weed. It serves no purpose whatsoever. If it was up to me, we'd be
growing edible vegetables instead (our vegetable garden is in the back
yard).

Well, let's see... when the kids want to play a game of pickup football
or softball, we have a full-sized field with grass short enough to run
effectively on. When I want to fly my sailplanes, I have a place to land
gracefully without dinging up the leading edges. When I want to fly my
old Telemaster, I have a perfect runway for both takeoffs and landings.
When I want to practice my short irons, I have a nice lobbing range. If
we just want to get out the easy chairs and sit out by the pond for a
while with a cold one, we don't have to wade through ankle-deep "weeds".

My vegetable garden is in back. My play yard is in front. Never the
twain shall meet.

LLoyd

On 5/11/2011 12:33 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
On May 11, 10:28 am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

So, I get more than a whole year's worth of mowing from one set of
blades, and a new set of three is about $40. For me, at least, it's
worth it to get that "golf course" look in the front of my property.

Aside from the golf course look, what benefit do you derive from your
lawn? In my mind, the grass in front of my house is nothing more than
a weed. It serves no purpose whatsoever. If it was up to me, we'd be
growing edible vegetables instead (our vegetable garden is in the back
yard).
.....
Here are some thoughts about the tremendous waste of resources and
money that go into a putting green front yard: http://www.primalseeds.org/lawns.htm

Some people have HOAs that say how the lawn must be maintained.

My [small] yard is crabgrass though. I think I sharpened the blade up a
bit in 2009. I use Roundup on the difficult edges so trimming with a
weedeater is not necessary. The weedeater is a 2-stroke, but it's not
the emmisions I care so much about--it's that since fuel left in the
weeder will always foul the carb, it has to be drained after every use
for it to start properly next time. Too much craptane in modern fuels
anymore.



I like to call lawn care "recreational farming".
Suburban people spend money on little machines and irrigation and
chemicals to plant, raise and harvest a tiny crop--that they don't
really do anything with. But they have fun with the challenge, and it
keeps them in the suburbs where they belong.

Eventually I plan to move to the US desert southwest, and my lawn is
going to be rocks and dirt. I'm just fine with that, quite frankly.
Among the highest form of comedies is people who move to a desert and
then spend money trying to grow a green lawn.

"Ed Huntress" fired this volley in
:

They don't seem to understand the evils of monoculture (see
Irish potato famine) and chemical herbicides and pesticides.

No pesticides, no herbicides, and I only fertilize very lightly once a
year when the guy with the big spreader comes to do my back pastures. I
dolomite the "yard" once every three years, and leave the rest to nature,
except the mowing.

You can choose to live in a "meadow"(to put a rat-infested weed-patch in
"new-age" speak), and I won't condemn you for it. So why rale against my
keeping my front yard nice?

LLoyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
"Ed Huntress" fired this volley in
:

They don't seem to understand the evils of monoculture (see
Irish potato famine) and chemical herbicides and pesticides.

No pesticides, no herbicides, and I only fertilize very lightly once a
year when the guy with the big spreader comes to do my back pastures. I
dolomite the "yard" once every three years, and leave the rest to nature,
except the mowing.

You can choose to live in a "meadow"(to put a rat-infested weed-patch in
"new-age" speak), and I won't condemn you for it. So why rale against my
keeping my front yard nice?

LLoyd

Actually, you're quoting Rangerssuck. I'm libertarian about lawns.

--
Ed Huntress

On May 11, 2:09*pm, DougC wrote:
On 5/11/2011 12:33 PM, rangerssuck wrote:

On May 11, 10:28 am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com *wrote:

So, I get more than a whole year's worth of mowing from one set of
blades, and a new set of three is about $40. *For me, at least, it's
worth it to get that "golf course" look in the front of my property.

Aside from the golf course look, what benefit do you derive from your
lawn? In my mind, the grass in front of my house is nothing more than
a weed. It serves no purpose whatsoever. If it was up to me, we'd be
growing edible vegetables instead (our vegetable garden is in the back
yard).
.....
Here are some thoughts about the tremendous waste of resources and
money that go into a putting green front yard:http://www.primalseeds.org/lawns.htm

Some people have HOAs that say how the lawn must be maintained.

My [small] yard is crabgrass though. I think I sharpened the blade up a
bit in 2009. I use Roundup on the difficult edges so trimming with a
weedeater is not necessary. The weedeater is a 2-stroke, but it's not
the emmisions I care so much about--it's that since fuel left in the
weeder will always foul the carb, it has to be drained after every use
for it to start properly next time. Too much craptane in modern fuels
anymore.

I like to call lawn care "recreational farming".
Suburban people spend money on little machines and irrigation and
chemicals to plant, raise and harvest a tiny crop--that they don't
really do anything with. But they have fun with the challenge, and it
keeps them in the suburbs where they belong.

Eventually I plan to move to the US desert southwest, and my lawn is
going to be rocks and dirt. I'm just fine with that, quite frankly.
Among the highest form of comedies is people who move to a desert and
then spend money trying to grow a green lawn.

Recreational farming is, I guess, fine. My vegetables would likely
fall into that category as well - I don't really grow enough to make a
significant dent in my food budget and the economics probably don't
work out well, but I don't keep track of that money. However, if one
is going to go to all the trouble of maintaining a lawn, why not put
that effort into something that's useful? Lloyd flies model planes off
his lawn, and that is (to me) the best reason to have any sort of lawn
(I have to drive 5 miles to the local model airfield). But as far as
something nice to look at? If I had property that large, I'd probably
till the whole thing and scatter mixed wildflower seeds and let it run
wild. Easy enough to mulch a few paths out to sitting areas to avoid
having to wade through the brush.


There are places in th US southwest that now have unbearably high
pollen counts because of morons who moved there and brought their
lawns and trees and flowers. The real (tragic) comedy is that many of
these people moved there for the LOW pollen count.

Just to muddy the topic a little more, this just came in my email:
http://www.rdmag.com/News/2011/05/Ma...ce-for-rubber/

The “Russian dandelion,” Taraxacum kok-saghyz (TKS), is being
domesticated at Ohio State University’s Ohio Agricultural Research and
Development Center’s (OARDC) Wooster campus and produces high-quality
natural rubber in its fleshy taproot. Its performance mirrors the
natural rubber produced from Hevea brasiliensis (the Brazilian rubber
tree). According to its developers, natural rubber provides
performance characteristics not available from synthetic, petroleum-
derived rubber for trucking, construction, and aviation tires.

Natural rubber produced from Hevea is the only commodity volume source
for tires and rubber industrial products in the world. Current
shortage of supply has driven a six-fold price increase since 2002.
Tests of TKS rubber produced in Wooster have found the material to be
of comparable quality to Hevea rubber. An important additional product
of TKS cultivation is ethanol.

The project was announced by Ford on Tuesday, and company engineers
are testing the substance to determine its durability. Initially, the
research will focus on the substance’s potential use as a strengthener
for impact plastics.

“Managing weed problems is essential to developing TKS as a
commercially viable domestic source of natural rubber in the U.S.,”
said Bill Ravlin, associate director of OARDC.

Ford could potentially use the substance as a plastics modifier, to
help improve the impact strength of plastics. The material might then
be used in places such as cupholders, floor mats and interior trim.
Ford has previously used sustainable materials in its vehicles
including soy foam seat cushions, wheat straw-filled plastic for
interior trim and recycled cotton from blue jeans as sound-dampening
material

A collaboration including the Ohio State University, the University of
Akron, Oregon State University, Cooper Tire and Bridgestone Americas
received a $3 million Third Frontier Wright Projects Program grant
through the Ohio Department of Development to develop a new industry
based on this renewable, domestic source of natural rubber. Most of
the funding was targeted to building a pilot-scale processing facility
on OARDC’s Wooster campus that will generate 20 metric tons of rubber
per year for industrial testing.

“It’s strange to see weeds being grown in perfectly manicured rows in
a greenhouse, but these dandelions could be the next sustainable
material in our vehicles,” said Harris.

Before the dandelion-derived rubber can be put to use, Ford
researchers will assess the initial quality of the material to
evaluate how it will perform in a variety of plastics that are used in
vehicles and to ensure it meets durability standards.

Besides the dandelion, the team also is looking into the use of
guayule (a southwestern U.S. shrub) as a natural rubber, which is
provided by OARDC and can also be grown domestically.

DougC wrote:
On 5/11/2011 12:33 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
On May 11, 10:28 am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

So, I get more than a whole year's worth of mowing from one set of
blades, and a new set of three is about $40. For me, at least, it's
worth it to get that "golf course" look in the front of my property.

Aside from the golf course look, what benefit do you derive from your
lawn? In my mind, the grass in front of my house is nothing more than
a weed. It serves no purpose whatsoever. If it was up to me, we'd be
growing edible vegetables instead (our vegetable garden is in the
back yard).
.....
Here are some thoughts about the tremendous waste of resources and
money that go into a putting green front yard:
http://www.primalseeds.org/lawns.htm

Some people have HOAs that say how the lawn must be maintained.

My [small] yard is crabgrass though. I think I sharpened the blade up
a bit in 2009. I use Roundup on the difficult edges so trimming with a
weedeater is not necessary. The weedeater is a 2-stroke, but it's not
the emmisions I care so much about--it's that since fuel left in the
weeder will always foul the carb, it has to be drained after every use
for it to start properly next time. Too much craptane in modern fuels
anymore.



I like to call lawn care "recreational farming".
Suburban people spend money on little machines and irrigation and
chemicals to plant, raise and harvest a tiny crop--that they don't
really do anything with. But they have fun with the challenge, and it
keeps them in the suburbs where they belong.

Eventually I plan to move to the US desert southwest, and my lawn is
going to be rocks and dirt. I'm just fine with that, quite frankly.

that's the way mine is. 0 maintenance. i just use pre-emergent or roundup on
the gravel driveway.

Among the highest form of comedies is people who move to a desert and
then spend money trying to grow a green lawn.

they sometimes just use green painted rocks. if you squint your eyes real
hard, you can pretend it grass.

in a couple of extreme cases, i've seen green painted concrete for the
entire front lawn.

regards,
charlie
phx, az

rangerssuck wrote:
On May 11, 2:09 pm, DougC wrote:
On 5/11/2011 12:33 PM, rangerssuck wrote:

On May 11, 10:28 am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

So, I get more than a whole year's worth of mowing from one set of
blades, and a new set of three is about $40. For me, at least, it's
worth it to get that "golf course" look in the front of my
property.

Aside from the golf course look, what benefit do you derive from
your
lawn? In my mind, the grass in front of my house is nothing more
than
a weed. It serves no purpose whatsoever. If it was up to me, we'd be
growing edible vegetables instead (our vegetable garden is in the
back
yard).
.....
Here are some thoughts about the tremendous waste of resources and
money that go into a putting green front
yard:http://www.primalseeds.org/lawns.htm

Some people have HOAs that say how the lawn must be maintained.

My [small] yard is crabgrass though. I think I sharpened the blade
up a bit in 2009. I use Roundup on the difficult edges so trimming
with a weedeater is not necessary. The weedeater is a 2-stroke, but
it's not the emmisions I care so much about--it's that since fuel
left in the weeder will always foul the carb, it has to be drained
after every use for it to start properly next time. Too much
craptane in modern fuels anymore.

I like to call lawn care "recreational farming".
Suburban people spend money on little machines and irrigation and
chemicals to plant, raise and harvest a tiny crop--that they don't
really do anything with. But they have fun with the challenge, and it
keeps them in the suburbs where they belong.

Eventually I plan to move to the US desert southwest, and my lawn is
going to be rocks and dirt. I'm just fine with that, quite frankly.
Among the highest form of comedies is people who move to a desert and
then spend money trying to grow a green lawn.

Recreational farming is, I guess, fine. My vegetables would likely
fall into that category as well - I don't really grow enough to make a
significant dent in my food budget and the economics probably don't
work out well, but I don't keep track of that money. However, if one
is going to go to all the trouble of maintaining a lawn, why not put
that effort into something that's useful? Lloyd flies model planes off
his lawn, and that is (to me) the best reason to have any sort of lawn
(I have to drive 5 miles to the local model airfield). But as far as
something nice to look at? If I had property that large, I'd probably
till the whole thing and scatter mixed wildflower seeds and let it run
wild. Easy enough to mulch a few paths out to sitting areas to avoid
having to wade through the brush.


There are places in th US southwest that now have unbearably high
pollen counts because of morons who moved there and brought their
lawns and trees and flowers. The real (tragic) comedy is that many of
these people moved there for the LOW pollen count.

olive and mulberry trees are the worst in this area, and were banned from
being sold for quite a few years now. a lot of people pay a bunch every year
to have existing trees sprayed so they don't produce pollen.

regards,
charlie
phx, az

On May 11, 2:09*pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
rangerssuck fired this volley in news:0197325e-
:

Aside from the golf course look, what benefit do you derive from your
lawn? In my mind, the grass in front of my house is nothing more than
a weed. It serves no purpose whatsoever. If it was up to me, we'd be
growing edible vegetables instead (our vegetable garden is in the back
yard).

Well, let's see... when the kids want to play a game of pickup football
or softball, we have a full-sized field with grass short enough to run
effectively on. *When I want to fly my sailplanes, I have a place to land
gracefully without dinging up the leading edges. *When I want to fly my
old Telemaster, I have a perfect runway for both takeoffs and landings. *
When I want to practice my short irons, I have a nice lobbing range. *If
we just want to get out the easy chairs and sit out by the pond for a
while with a cold one, we don't have to wade through ankle-deep "weeds".

My vegetable garden is in back. *My play yard is in front. *Never the
twain shall meet.

LLoyd

Fair enough, especially the sailplanes and Telemaster. My yard is
nowhere near big enough for that sort of play, but we do have a paved-
runway model field about five miles away. As for wading through the
"weeds," it's easy enough to mulch (or mow) paths through a meadow.

To each, I guess, his own.

On May 11, 2:13*pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"Ed Huntress" fired this volley :

They don't seem to understand the evils of monoculture (see
Irish potato famine) and chemical herbicides and pesticides.

No pesticides, no herbicides, and I only fertilize very lightly once a
year when the guy with the big spreader comes to do my back pastures. *I
dolomite the "yard" once every three years, and leave the rest to nature,
except the mowing.

You can choose to live in a "meadow"(to put a rat-infested weed-patch in
"new-age" speak), and I won't condemn you for it. *So why rale against my
keeping my front yard nice? *

LLoyd

Rat infested? Not around here. There's a balance between the rodent
and feral cat populations. We could use some bigger cats, though. Last
year a rabbit (I think) devoured my basil crop. Left nothing but bare
stems.

On Wed, 11 May 2011 13:09:35 -0500, DougC
wrote:

On 5/11/2011 12:33 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
On May 11, 10:28 am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

So, I get more than a whole year's worth of mowing from one set of
blades, and a new set of three is about $40. For me, at least, it's
worth it to get that "golf course" look in the front of my property.

Aside from the golf course look, what benefit do you derive from your
lawn? In my mind, the grass in front of my house is nothing more than
a weed. It serves no purpose whatsoever. If it was up to me, we'd be
growing edible vegetables instead (our vegetable garden is in the back
yard).
.....
Here are some thoughts about the tremendous waste of resources and
money that go into a putting green front yard: http://www.primalseeds.org/lawns.htm

Some people have HOAs that say how the lawn must be maintained.

My [small] yard is crabgrass though. I think I sharpened the blade up a
bit in 2009. I use Roundup on the difficult edges so trimming with a
weedeater is not necessary. The weedeater is a 2-stroke, but it's not
the emmisions I care so much about--it's that since fuel left in the
weeder will always foul the carb, it has to be drained after every use
for it to start properly next time. Too much craptane in modern fuels
anymore.



I like to call lawn care "recreational farming".
Suburban people spend money on little machines and irrigation and
chemicals to plant, raise and harvest a tiny crop--that they don't
really do anything with. But they have fun with the challenge, and it
keeps them in the suburbs where they belong.

Eventually I plan to move to the US desert southwest, and my lawn is
going to be rocks and dirt. I'm just fine with that, quite frankly.
Among the highest form of comedies is people who move to a desert and
then spend money trying to grow a green lawn.


Our POA has a restriction on the amount you can irrigate. Xeriscape
encouraged. We're in the middle of a drought right now, which isn't
that uncommon in central Texas. I like grasses which will go dormant
in drought, like buffalo. Not a lawn you'd want to lay down and roll
on, that's for sure.

Pete Keillor

"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...
On May 11, 2:13 pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"Ed Huntress" fired this volley
:

They don't seem to understand the evils of monoculture (see
Irish potato famine) and chemical herbicides and pesticides.

No pesticides, no herbicides, and I only fertilize very lightly once a
year when the guy with the big spreader comes to do my back pastures. I
dolomite the "yard" once every three years, and leave the rest to nature,
except the mowing.

You can choose to live in a "meadow"(to put a rat-infested weed-patch in
"new-age" speak), and I won't condemn you for it. So why rale against my
keeping my front yard nice?

LLoyd

Rat infested? Not around here. There's a balance between the rodent
and feral cat populations. We could use some bigger cats, though. Last
year a rabbit (I think) devoured my basil crop. Left nothing but bare
stems.

Don't knock it -- basil-fed rabbit is delicious.

--
Ed Huntress

On May 11, 2:43*pm, "chaniarts" wrote:

that's the way mine is. 0 maintenance. i just use pre-emergent or roundup on
the gravel driveway.


Propane weed burning torch works well, is way more fun and doesn't
poison the area. Roundup is not the great panacea that it was
advertised to be. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/04/bu...nt/04weed.html
roundup resistant weeds are going to increase farming costs, and you &
I will be feeling that at the market.

Pete Keillor wrote:
Our POA has a restriction on the amount you can irrigate. Xeriscape
encouraged. We're in the middle of a drought right now, which isn't
that uncommon in central Texas. I like grasses which will go dormant
in drought, like buffalo. Not a lawn you'd want to lay down and roll
on, that's for sure.

Pete Keillor
We did our back yard in Buffalo grass and it is great.
When it gets around to raining it greens up and when]
it's dry its brown. Have to mow a few time a year
when it's dry and maybe every 3 weeks or so when it's
wet. :-) Front yard is some desert plants and some
concrete product called "Tuff Turf" 18 x 24 inch blocks
4" tck with a hole pattern and filled with sand.
Yep the "desert south-west" is great. !! :-)
...lew...

On Wed, 11 May 2011 13:09:35 -0500, DougC
wrote:

On 5/11/2011 12:33 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
On May 11, 10:28 am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

So, I get more than a whole year's worth of mowing from one set of
blades, and a new set of three is about $40. For me, at least, it's
worth it to get that "golf course" look in the front of my property.

Aside from the golf course look, what benefit do you derive from your
lawn? In my mind, the grass in front of my house is nothing more than
a weed. It serves no purpose whatsoever. If it was up to me, we'd be
growing edible vegetables instead (our vegetable garden is in the back
yard).
.....
Here are some thoughts about the tremendous waste of resources and
money that go into a putting green front yard: http://www.primalseeds.org/lawns.htm

Some people have HOAs that say how the lawn must be maintained.

My [small] yard is crabgrass though. I think I sharpened the blade up a
bit in 2009. I use Roundup on the difficult edges so trimming with a
weedeater is not necessary. The weedeater is a 2-stroke, but it's not
the emmisions I care so much about--it's that since fuel left in the
weeder will always foul the carb, it has to be drained after every use
for it to start properly next time. Too much craptane in modern fuels
anymore.

I've heard the fix is to use pure gasoline, none of the alcohol crap.
But I've never had a problem year to year with gasoline or gas/oil mix
for 2-strokes. They only go bad after several years for me. Maybe I
hold my mouth right.


I like to call lawn care "recreational farming".
Suburban people spend money on little machines and irrigation and
chemicals to plant, raise and harvest a tiny crop--that they don't
really do anything with. But they have fun with the challenge, and it
keeps them in the suburbs where they belong.

g


Eventually I plan to move to the US desert southwest, and my lawn is
going to be rocks and dirt. I'm just fine with that, quite frankly.
Among the highest form of comedies is people who move to a desert and
then spend money trying to grow a green lawn.

A client wants me to rent a turf cuter for her yard next week and I'm
going to bring it to my house afterward and take the front yard turf
out. It'll all be perennials and bark some day soon! I abhor grass.
I'm allergic to it and it takes time and money and sweat to maintain.
I bought a copy of _The Wild Lawn Handbook_ last year and will start
on mine this year.

--
Woe be to him that reads but one book.
-- George Herbert

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh laid this down on his screen :
Tim Wescott fired this volley in news:ibSdnfQjcb-
:

I've seen someone here report on doing it just that way for commercial
mowers.


That'd be me.

Oregon makes the blades for the Scagg 61" commercial mowers. They are
_adamant_ about milling them with a face mill rather than grinding them.

They supply them as new milled, and they specify the angle and remaining
width of cutting backup area for new milling. Until they become narrower
than spec, you just keep on milling new faces. I get about 30 acres per
sharpening for a three-blade set now, up from my original 18. It has
more to do with the fact that I've finally cut up and and not now re-
cutting all the thatch than with the method.

I built up a permanent angle jig out of a block of 6061 to hold mine, and
use a small carbide insert face mill to produce the edges.

One benefit is that it never overheats the metal. The other is that they
come out virtually perfectly balanced every time.

LLoyd

Maybe you could take a picture and post it next time you have it setup.

Wayne D.

Wayne fired this volley in news:Pt_yp.3$oq.1
@newsfe17.iad:

Maybe you could take a picture and post it next time you have it setup.

Wayne D.

I'll try to remember to. I have a sharpening coming up in a few weeks.
We're in a drought right now, and I haven't had to mow in three weeks.

LLoyd

Wayne formulated the question :
My lawn mower blades get dinged up real good by sticks and small rocks.
Grinding them takes me a long time, 2 blades, 4 edges.
Is there any reason why I couldn't set up the angle in the mill
and clean them up with an end mill?
I would think this would be a lot faster.
I could always grind in the final edge.

If this isn't a good idea, then everyone should forget I asked a stupid
question.

Wayne D.

I haven't pulled the lawnmower out yet. So I haven't given it a shot
yet.

Wayne D.