I've been trying to do some body work and rust repair on my truck before I
sell it and I'm getting close to the point of needing to weld in some metal
to replace the rusted metal. This isn't so much to increase the value of
the truck as it is to learn to do some body work and rust repair. My welder
is a Century 145A (IIRC) 230V Sam's Club special that came with the MIG Gas
regulator kit.

For my current location and to weld thin auto body sheet metal it would be
nice to have a 120V welder so I was looking at what is available. Seems the
economical MIG welders (Harbor Freight, Northern Tool, etc.) are set up for
flux core and the thinnest they advertise to weld is 18 Ga. and the addition
of the MIG kit puts their price near the price of the little bit better MIG
welders.

Looking around, I found a welder that looks interesting, a Millermatic 211.
It will run up to 140A on from 120V or up to 210A from a 230V supply.
Sounds like just what I need, light duty running out to my auto body and
heavier duty shop welding. Plus it is ready for a spool gun (on sale
locally for $179). Everything sounded great until I looked at the price,
$949 on sale locally, sounds like a good price for this welder but still
pretty expensive. It would fill all my MIG needs in one machine plus I
could add aluminum spool gun capability. And it looks like a bottle of
Argon for TIG + MIG aluminum and a bottle of 75/25 Argon/CO2 would set me up
with all the gas I need for about anything I'm likely to weld.

Any recommendations on a favorite MIG welder for auto body sheet metal?

RogerN

On 2010-07-18, Steve B wrote:

"RogerN" wrote in message
m...
I've been trying to do some body work and rust repair on my truck before I
sell it and I'm getting close to the point of needing to weld in some
metal to replace the rusted metal. This isn't so much to increase the
value of the truck as it is to learn to do some body work and rust repair.
My welder is a Century 145A (IIRC) 230V Sam's Club special that came with
the MIG Gas regulator kit.

For my current location and to weld thin auto body sheet metal it would be
nice to have a 120V welder so I was looking at what is available. Seems
the economical MIG welders (Harbor Freight, Northern Tool, etc.) are set
up for flux core and the thinnest they advertise to weld is 18 Ga. and the
addition of the MIG kit puts their price near the price of the little bit
better MIG welders.

Looking around, I found a welder that looks interesting, a Millermatic
211. It will run up to 140A on from 120V or up to 210A from a 230V supply.
Sounds like just what I need, light duty running out to my auto body and
heavier duty shop welding. Plus it is ready for a spool gun (on sale
locally for $179). Everything sounded great until I looked at the price,
$949 on sale locally, sounds like a good price for this welder but still
pretty expensive. It would fill all my MIG needs in one machine plus I
could add aluminum spool gun capability. And it looks like a bottle of
Argon for TIG + MIG aluminum and a bottle of 75/25 Argon/CO2 would set me
up with all the gas I need for about anything I'm likely to weld.

Any recommendations on a favorite MIG welder for auto body sheet metal?

RogerN

That is a good welder, but the price is high for a used unit. Buy only
Lincoln or Miller. And don't buy from HD or those stores, as the components
they use have more plastic parts than a similar one you're buy at a welding
store. You get what you pay for, and a red or blue one will weld all day
long all week long. There are cheaper ones, but they have more problems,
and you can't make any money if your welder is not working. I wouldn't
worry too much about the aluminum, but to have the spare hole to get one
later is a plus. If you are going to do any heavy work, you might want a
220v. unit. The 110's have a light duty cycle, and you will have to spend
time waiting for it to cool off. Not so much with the 220. Red and blue
are easy to get consumables and repairs for. The other off brand names not
so much.

What Steve says. If you look locally, you can find a better deal. I
bought a Millermatic 251 for about $600. (hard to calculate as I
bought several things for $1k and sold some)

i

"Steve B" wrote in message
news

Looking around, I found a welder that looks interesting, a Millermatic
211. It will run up to 140A on from 120V or up to 210A from a 230V
supply. Sounds like just what I need, light duty running out to my auto
body and heavier duty shop welding. Plus it is ready for a spool gun (on
sale locally for $179). Everything sounded great until I looked at the
price, $949 on sale locally, sounds like a good price for this welder but
still pretty expensive. It would fill all my MIG needs in one machine
plus I could add aluminum spool gun capability. And it looks like a
bottle of Argon for TIG + MIG aluminum and a bottle of 75/25 Argon/CO2
would set me up with all the gas I need for about anything I'm likely to
weld.

Any recommendations on a favorite MIG welder for auto body sheet metal?

RogerN

That is a good welder, but the price is high for a used unit. Buy only
Lincoln or Miller. And don't buy from HD or those stores, as the
components they use have more plastic parts than a similar one you're buy
at a welding store. You get what you pay for, and a red or blue one will
weld all day long all week long. There are cheaper ones, but they have
more problems, and you can't make any money if your welder is not working.
I wouldn't worry too much about the aluminum, but to have the spare hole
to get one later is a plus. If you are going to do any heavy work, you
might want a 220v. unit. The 110's have a light duty cycle, and you will
have to spend time waiting for it to cool off. Not so much with the 220.
Red and blue are easy to get consumables and repairs for. The other off
brand names not so much.

HTH



Those prices are new from Praxair's special offers.

not sure this link works properly, should open a PDF brochure with "special
offers"
http://www.millerwelds.com/wheretobu...hp?id=OM020257

Also, instead of a bottle of Argon and a bottle of mix, I'm wondering how
hard it would be to set up with CO2 and Argon to select Argon, CO2, or mix.
I could use straight CO2 for normal steel MIG, Mix for auto body, and
straight Argon for aluminum or TIG.

RogerN

"RogerN" wrote in message
m...
I've been trying to do some body work and rust repair on my truck before I
sell it and I'm getting close to the point of needing to weld in some
metal to replace the rusted metal. This isn't so much to increase the
value of the truck as it is to learn to do some body work and rust repair.
My welder is a Century 145A (IIRC) 230V Sam's Club special that came with
the MIG Gas regulator kit.

For my current location and to weld thin auto body sheet metal it would be
nice to have a 120V welder so I was looking at what is available. Seems
the economical MIG welders (Harbor Freight, Northern Tool, etc.) are set
up for flux core and the thinnest they advertise to weld is 18 Ga. and the
addition of the MIG kit puts their price near the price of the little bit
better MIG welders.

Looking around, I found a welder that looks interesting, a Millermatic
211. It will run up to 140A on from 120V or up to 210A from a 230V supply.
Sounds like just what I need, light duty running out to my auto body and
heavier duty shop welding. Plus it is ready for a spool gun (on sale
locally for $179). Everything sounded great until I looked at the price,
$949 on sale locally, sounds like a good price for this welder but still
pretty expensive. It would fill all my MIG needs in one machine plus I
could add aluminum spool gun capability. And it looks like a bottle of
Argon for TIG + MIG aluminum and a bottle of 75/25 Argon/CO2 would set me
up with all the gas I need for about anything I'm likely to weld.

Any recommendations on a favorite MIG welder for auto body sheet metal?

RogerN

That is a good welder, but the price is high for a used unit. Buy only
Lincoln or Miller. And don't buy from HD or those stores, as the components
they use have more plastic parts than a similar one you're buy at a welding
store. You get what you pay for, and a red or blue one will weld all day
long all week long. There are cheaper ones, but they have more problems,
and you can't make any money if your welder is not working. I wouldn't
worry too much about the aluminum, but to have the spare hole to get one
later is a plus. If you are going to do any heavy work, you might want a
220v. unit. The 110's have a light duty cycle, and you will have to spend
time waiting for it to cool off. Not so much with the 220. Red and blue
are easy to get consumables and repairs for. The other off brand names not
so much.

HTH

On 2010-07-18, RogerN wrote:
Also, instead of a bottle of Argon and a bottle of mix, I'm wondering how
hard it would be to set up with CO2 and Argon to select Argon, CO2, or mix.
I could use straight CO2 for normal steel MIG, Mix for auto body, and
straight Argon for aluminum or TIG.

Let us know what you find out about it.

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 08:21:19 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:

I've been trying to do some body work and rust repair on my truck before I
sell it and I'm getting close to the point of needing to weld in some metal
to replace the rusted metal. This isn't so much to increase the value of
the truck as it is to learn to do some body work and rust repair. My welder
is a Century 145A (IIRC) 230V Sam's Club special that came with the MIG Gas
regulator kit.

For my current location and to weld thin auto body sheet metal it would be
nice to have a 120V welder so I was looking at what is available. Seems the
economical MIG welders (Harbor Freight, Northern Tool, etc.) are set up for
flux core and the thinnest they advertise to weld is 18 Ga. and the addition
of the MIG kit puts their price near the price of the little bit better MIG
welders.

Looking around, I found a welder that looks interesting, a Millermatic 211.
It will run up to 140A on from 120V or up to 210A from a 230V supply.
Sounds like just what I need, light duty running out to my auto body and
heavier duty shop welding. Plus it is ready for a spool gun (on sale
locally for $179). Everything sounded great until I looked at the price,
$949 on sale locally, sounds like a good price for this welder but still
pretty expensive. It would fill all my MIG needs in one machine plus I
could add aluminum spool gun capability. And it looks like a bottle of
Argon for TIG + MIG aluminum and a bottle of 75/25 Argon/CO2 would set me up
with all the gas I need for about anything I'm likely to weld.

Any recommendations on a favorite MIG welder for auto body sheet metal?

RogerN

You have conflicting objectives, wanting a MIG that can do heavier
welding, including aluminum, but still a best choice for autobody.

An excellent welder for autobody is the Lincoln SP125 plus, may be
SP135plus now, with continuously variable heat setting. If you visit
a restoration or custom body shop, that's what you'll see at the
workstations.

If your present wire welder won't weld sheetmetal without burning holes,
there may be something wrong with the welder or your methods/techniques..
examine both closely.
You don't say if you've actually tried using the Century model, or if you're
just comparing advertising numbers.

You may not need a new liner in the gun/torch assembly to run .023" or .025"
wire. The C25 argon/CO2 mix is more expensive, but most likely the best
choice for sheetmetal and small wire.
Small wire size, low power output and C25 gas is what will make sheetmetal
work very easy.

When repairing rusty sheetmetal, any rusty spots are best avoided. The weld
should be applied where the surface is absolutely clean steel and free of
rust, and where rust hasn't eaten away at the back side of the body metal.
If the body metal is rusted badly on the back side, the patch area needs to
be enlarged/extended.
The skills for proper welding are in the user, not the machine.

Don't get too carried away with the model numbers and marketing hype.. even
the better brand name 120VAC wire welders are just 90 Amp units.
Ernie L (SEJW group) and others will confirm this.
The possibility of a little more output amperage is realistic only if the
unit requires a 30A 120VAC supply circuit.
Another aspect that many get carried away with is duty cycle.. unless you're
making long, continuous welds at high output current, duty cycle isn't
paramount.
During most home shop welding, the user is going to pause, changing position
or other small interruptions that reduce the actual weld-duty time.
I would consider a better warranty period of more significance than a
slightly higher duty cycle, only because new stuff sometimes fails. A good
warranty and parts supply chain outweighs a full power, 100% duty cycle IMO.

There are numerous quality 120V units available, that have parts readily
available in most locations.
Hobart is one very good brand, with wide availability from what I've seen,
but I haven't needed warranty repairs or major parts replacement.
All of the genuine Hobart consumable parts are readily available to me
locally, and if I would need a gun assembly or new liner, they're readily
available online, or thru local dealers.

This Mm 211 unit is multi-voltage unit with extra features like the Auto-set
and Smooth-start which appear to be additional electronic circuits that may
be nice, until they fail. I don't know what spatter-free start is, but it
sounds like marketing crap.
More features are generally just more things that can go wrong, and most
likely need to be returned to a service center for repair.
The smaller Millermatic wire units also have the Auto-set feature.

A good quality 120V unit should be economical to own and use with consistent
performance evey time it's turned on.

Since you already have a gas regulator kit, you might consider a basic model
quality wire welder that has the solenoid valve already installed (many do).

The Hobart units still appear to be made in U.S.A. and they're availability
is as widespread as any other manufacturers.
You may not find a continuously adjustable heat range on some models.

Years ago, my job involved setting up a small fabricating and machine shop,
and to produce small machines for the employer.
The wire welder welder that was bought was a cheap imported
bottom-of-the-barrel quality unit, that required more time repairing and
adjusting, than actual welding.

Later, for my own use, I bought a Hobart Handler 135, and after years of
occassional use, have never had any problems with it. It still works just
like it did when it was new.

--
WB
..........


"RogerN" wrote in message
m...
I've been trying to do some body work and rust repair on my truck before I
sell it and I'm getting close to the point of needing to weld in some
metal to replace the rusted metal. This isn't so much to increase the
value of the truck as it is to learn to do some body work and rust repair.
My welder is a Century 145A (IIRC) 230V Sam's Club special that came with
the MIG Gas regulator kit.

For my current location and to weld thin auto body sheet metal it would be
nice to have a 120V welder so I was looking at what is available. Seems
the economical MIG welders (Harbor Freight, Northern Tool, etc.) are set
up for flux core and the thinnest they advertise to weld is 18 Ga. and the
addition of the MIG kit puts their price near the price of the little bit
better MIG welders.

Looking around, I found a welder that looks interesting, a Millermatic
211. It will run up to 140A on from 120V or up to 210A from a 230V supply.
Sounds like just what I need, light duty running out to my auto body and
heavier duty shop welding. Plus it is ready for a spool gun (on sale
locally for $179). Everything sounded great until I looked at the price,
$949 on sale locally, sounds like a good price for this welder but still
pretty expensive. It would fill all my MIG needs in one machine plus I
could add aluminum spool gun capability. And it looks like a bottle of
Argon for TIG + MIG aluminum and a bottle of 75/25 Argon/CO2 would set me
up with all the gas I need for about anything I'm likely to weld.

Any recommendations on a favorite MIG welder for auto body sheet metal?

RogerN

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 08:21:19 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:

I've been trying to do some body work and rust repair on my truck before I
sell it and I'm getting close to the point of needing to weld in some
metal
to replace the rusted metal. This isn't so much to increase the value of
the truck as it is to learn to do some body work and rust repair. My
welder
is a Century 145A (IIRC) 230V Sam's Club special that came with the MIG
Gas
regulator kit.

For my current location and to weld thin auto body sheet metal it would be
nice to have a 120V welder so I was looking at what is available. Seems
the
economical MIG welders (Harbor Freight, Northern Tool, etc.) are set up
for
flux core and the thinnest they advertise to weld is 18 Ga. and the
addition
of the MIG kit puts their price near the price of the little bit better
MIG
welders.

Looking around, I found a welder that looks interesting, a Millermatic
211.
It will run up to 140A on from 120V or up to 210A from a 230V supply.
Sounds like just what I need, light duty running out to my auto body and
heavier duty shop welding. Plus it is ready for a spool gun (on sale
locally for $179). Everything sounded great until I looked at the price,
$949 on sale locally, sounds like a good price for this welder but still
pretty expensive. It would fill all my MIG needs in one machine plus I
could add aluminum spool gun capability. And it looks like a bottle of
Argon for TIG + MIG aluminum and a bottle of 75/25 Argon/CO2 would set me
up
with all the gas I need for about anything I'm likely to weld.

Any recommendations on a favorite MIG welder for auto body sheet metal?

RogerN

You have conflicting objectives, wanting a MIG that can do heavier
welding, including aluminum, but still a best choice for autobody.

The dual voltage on the Millermatic 211 has conflicting capabilities, on
120V it has the exact same current and duty cycle ratings as the Millermatic
140, but on 230V it has capabilities of a higher power welder, that what has
caught my interest. However I may be better off getting a small 120V unit
for auto body and a used heavier welder for welding heavier metals and
aluminum.

An excellent welder for autobody is the Lincoln SP125 plus, may be
SP135plus now, with continuously variable heat setting. If you visit
a restoration or custom body shop, that's what you'll see at the
workstations.


I'll look them up and see what kind of deals they have on them at the local
welding suppliers. If I get a 230V extension cord I may be able to use my
Century MIG welder, I don't remember its specs but I think it can do thin
auto body sheet metals.

RogerN

"RogerN" wrote in message
...

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 08:21:19 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:

I've been trying to do some body work and rust repair on my truck before
I
sell it and I'm getting close to the point of needing to weld in some
metal
to replace the rusted metal. This isn't so much to increase the value of
the truck as it is to learn to do some body work and rust repair. My
welder
is a Century 145A (IIRC) 230V Sam's Club special that came with the MIG
Gas
regulator kit.

For my current location and to weld thin auto body sheet metal it would
be
nice to have a 120V welder so I was looking at what is available. Seems
the
economical MIG welders (Harbor Freight, Northern Tool, etc.) are set up
for
flux core and the thinnest they advertise to weld is 18 Ga. and the
addition
of the MIG kit puts their price near the price of the little bit better
MIG
welders.

Looking around, I found a welder that looks interesting, a Millermatic
211.
It will run up to 140A on from 120V or up to 210A from a 230V supply.
Sounds like just what I need, light duty running out to my auto body and
heavier duty shop welding. Plus it is ready for a spool gun (on sale
locally for $179). Everything sounded great until I looked at the price,
$949 on sale locally, sounds like a good price for this welder but still
pretty expensive. It would fill all my MIG needs in one machine plus I
could add aluminum spool gun capability. And it looks like a bottle of
Argon for TIG + MIG aluminum and a bottle of 75/25 Argon/CO2 would set me
up
with all the gas I need for about anything I'm likely to weld.

Any recommendations on a favorite MIG welder for auto body sheet metal?

RogerN

You have conflicting objectives, wanting a MIG that can do heavier
welding, including aluminum, but still a best choice for autobody.

The dual voltage on the Millermatic 211 has conflicting capabilities, on
120V it has the exact same current and duty cycle ratings as the
Millermatic 140, but on 230V it has capabilities of a higher power welder,
that what has caught my interest. However I may be better off getting a
small 120V unit for auto body and a used heavier welder for welding
heavier metals and aluminum.

An excellent welder for autobody is the Lincoln SP125 plus, may be
SP135plus now, with continuously variable heat setting. If you visit
a restoration or custom body shop, that's what you'll see at the
workstations.


I'll look them up and see what kind of deals they have on them at the
local welding suppliers. If I get a 230V extension cord I may be able to
use my Century MIG welder, I don't remember its specs but I think it can
do thin auto body sheet metals.

RogerN



Get one of these flange/punch tools for sheet metal work if you don't
already have one:

http://www.harborfreight.com/air-pun...tool-1110.html

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 08:21:19 -0500, "RogerN" wrote:

I've been trying to do some body work and rust repair on my truck before I
sell it and I'm getting close to the point of needing to weld in some metal
to replace the rusted metal. This isn't so much to increase the value of
the truck as it is to learn to do some body work and rust repair. My welder
is a Century 145A (IIRC) 230V Sam's Club special that came with the MIG Gas
regulator kit.

For my current location and to weld thin auto body sheet metal it would be
nice to have a 120V welder so I was looking at what is available. Seems the
economical MIG welders (Harbor Freight, Northern Tool, etc.) are set up for
flux core and the thinnest they advertise to weld is 18 Ga. and the addition
of the MIG kit puts their price near the price of the little bit better MIG
welders.

Looking around, I found a welder that looks interesting, a Millermatic 211.
It will run up to 140A on from 120V or up to 210A from a 230V supply.
Sounds like just what I need, light duty running out to my auto body and
heavier duty shop welding. Plus it is ready for a spool gun (on sale
locally for $179). Everything sounded great until I looked at the price,
$949 on sale locally, sounds like a good price for this welder but still
pretty expensive. It would fill all my MIG needs in one machine plus I
could add aluminum spool gun capability. And it looks like a bottle of
Argon for TIG + MIG aluminum and a bottle of 75/25 Argon/CO2 would set me up
with all the gas I need for about anything I'm likely to weld.

Any recommendations on a favorite MIG welder for auto body sheet metal?

RogerN


Im not...not a body guy. Id rather take a beating than do body work.

But Ive got a little Lincoln Weldpac 100 and a Hobart 150 (220vot) that
do rather nicely for this sort of work. The Weldpak is 110volts and one
can easily install a gas kit into it for less than $100.

Ive had the Lincoln for at least 10 yrs, its banged around the inside of
my service trucks most of that time, and it still works just hunky dory.

Ive loaned the Lincoln out a number of times to buddies who do body work
and they all have had no issues with it. The Hobart gets less such work
as it is 220volt..but it will go down there just fine, with .020 wire,
just like the Lincoln.

I think the Lincoln runs $340ish or thereabouts and the Hobarts
replacement is about $450

Ebay may be one place to check as some..some..some of the pricing has
gone down as buyers have run out of money due to the economy and one can
find some really good deals occasionally.

I have found that with mig welders...getting one locally and actually
running a bead or 3 tends to be best..as you know exactly what you are
getting. And any issues have ether been correcte by the present
owner..or they will tell you about them if you ask properly.


Gunner, who buys and sells welding equipment


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:48:08 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 08:21:19 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:

I've been trying to do some body work and rust repair on my truck before I
sell it and I'm getting close to the point of needing to weld in some metal
to replace the rusted metal. This isn't so much to increase the value of
the truck as it is to learn to do some body work and rust repair. My welder
is a Century 145A (IIRC) 230V Sam's Club special that came with the MIG Gas
regulator kit.

For my current location and to weld thin auto body sheet metal it would be
nice to have a 120V welder so I was looking at what is available. Seems the
economical MIG welders (Harbor Freight, Northern Tool, etc.) are set up for
flux core and the thinnest they advertise to weld is 18 Ga. and the addition
of the MIG kit puts their price near the price of the little bit better MIG
welders.

Looking around, I found a welder that looks interesting, a Millermatic 211.
It will run up to 140A on from 120V or up to 210A from a 230V supply.
Sounds like just what I need, light duty running out to my auto body and
heavier duty shop welding. Plus it is ready for a spool gun (on sale
locally for $179). Everything sounded great until I looked at the price,
$949 on sale locally, sounds like a good price for this welder but still
pretty expensive. It would fill all my MIG needs in one machine plus I
could add aluminum spool gun capability. And it looks like a bottle of
Argon for TIG + MIG aluminum and a bottle of 75/25 Argon/CO2 would set me up
with all the gas I need for about anything I'm likely to weld.

Any recommendations on a favorite MIG welder for auto body sheet metal?

RogerN

You have conflicting objectives, wanting a MIG that can do heavier
welding, including aluminum, but still a best choice for autobody.

An excellent welder for autobody is the Lincoln SP125 plus, may be
SP135plus now, with continuously variable heat setting. If you visit
a restoration or custom body shop, that's what you'll see at the
workstations.

Ayup..basiclly an updated and improved Weldpak.

Good stuff and check ebay for used ones.


The problem with trying to find small welders..is that most guys wont
sell one that works well. They dont take up a lot of room, they paid a
lot for it new and cant sell it for close to what they paid for it most
of the time...so they often simply sit on it and let it collect dust
between uses

Swap meets can often times find you something..but you had better be
good at haggling and there had best be power handy so you can test it.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:48:08 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 08:21:19 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:


Any recommendations on a favorite MIG welder for auto body sheet
metal?

RogerN

You have conflicting objectives, wanting a MIG that can do heavier
welding, including aluminum, but still a best choice for autobody.

An excellent welder for autobody is the Lincoln SP125 plus, may be
SP135plus now, with continuously variable heat setting. If you
visit a restoration or custom body shop, that's what you'll see at
the workstations.

Ayup..basiclly an updated and improved Weldpak.

Gunner Asch

Got the Weldpak 100 with gas . Works sweet on up to 3/16" stick , for
bigger there's a Tombstone under the bench .
For body panel type stuff I tack-n-skip then go back and do it again ,
then again . Helps keep flat panels flat - especially if I hammer-n-dolly
the welds between passes .
--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 17:07:39 -0500, "Snag" wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:48:08 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 08:21:19 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:


Any recommendations on a favorite MIG welder for auto body sheet
metal?

RogerN

You have conflicting objectives, wanting a MIG that can do heavier
welding, including aluminum, but still a best choice for autobody.

An excellent welder for autobody is the Lincoln SP125 plus, may be
SP135plus now, with continuously variable heat setting. If you
visit a restoration or custom body shop, that's what you'll see at
the workstations.

Ayup..basiclly an updated and improved Weldpak.

Gunner Asch

Got the Weldpak 100 with gas . Works sweet on up to 3/16" stick , for
bigger there's a Tombstone under the bench .
For body panel type stuff I tack-n-skip then go back and do it again ,
then again . Helps keep flat panels flat - especially if I hammer-n-dolly
the welds between passes .

You are a very smart fellow!!

The only issue I have with the Weldpak is sometimes the spool tightens
up the wingnut holding the spool and stops the wire..other times the
wingnut comes loose while in storage in a vehicle and when I go to use
it..it has a big rats nest in the compartment. So I put big Dymo labels
on the front..CHECK SPOOL NUT!!! in bright yellow. Never had a
problem after that.

Gunner


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Went to my building full of stuff and brought my Century MIG welder home.
It is Century item number 83145. 130A @30% duty cycle, 145A max @20% duty
cycle. Primary 230VAC, 22A, I have sufficient 230V in the area, just need
to make a plug adapter/extension cord.

According to the front panel it is supposed to be able to go as low as 24Ga
steel. I haven't found the owners manual PDF online but I should have it
around here somewhere! :-) I was able to find a PDF exploded parts view of
it though.

http://www.centuryweldingparts.com/d...9,%2083145.pdf

I plan to get a bottle of argon/co2 mix tomorrow and connections so I can
plug it in to power. I'll give it a try on auto body and see how it does.
It has pots for amp and wire feed, not stepped adjustments, I don't see why
it wouldn't work OK.

RogerN

"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...
If your present wire welder won't weld sheetmetal without burning holes,
there may be something wrong with the welder or your methods/techniques..
examine both closely.
You don't say if you've actually tried using the Century model, or if
you're just comparing advertising numbers.

You may not need a new liner in the gun/torch assembly to run .023" or
.025" wire. The C25 argon/CO2 mix is more expensive, but most likely the
best choice for sheetmetal and small wire.
Small wire size, low power output and C25 gas is what will make sheetmetal
work very easy.

When repairing rusty sheetmetal, any rusty spots are best avoided. The
weld should be applied where the surface is absolutely clean steel and
free of rust, and where rust hasn't eaten away at the back side of the
body metal.
If the body metal is rusted badly on the back side, the patch area needs
to be enlarged/extended.
The skills for proper welding are in the user, not the machine.

Don't get too carried away with the model numbers and marketing hype..
even the better brand name 120VAC wire welders are just 90 Amp units.
Ernie L (SEJW group) and others will confirm this.
The possibility of a little more output amperage is realistic only if the
unit requires a 30A 120VAC supply circuit.
Another aspect that many get carried away with is duty cycle.. unless
you're making long, continuous welds at high output current, duty cycle
isn't paramount.
During most home shop welding, the user is going to pause, changing
position or other small interruptions that reduce the actual weld-duty
time.
I would consider a better warranty period of more significance than a
slightly higher duty cycle, only because new stuff sometimes fails. A good
warranty and parts supply chain outweighs a full power, 100% duty cycle
IMO.

There are numerous quality 120V units available, that have parts readily
available in most locations.
Hobart is one very good brand, with wide availability from what I've seen,
but I haven't needed warranty repairs or major parts replacement.
All of the genuine Hobart consumable parts are readily available to me
locally, and if I would need a gun assembly or new liner, they're readily
available online, or thru local dealers.

This Mm 211 unit is multi-voltage unit with extra features like the
Auto-set and Smooth-start which appear to be additional electronic
circuits that may be nice, until they fail. I don't know what spatter-free
start is, but it sounds like marketing crap.
More features are generally just more things that can go wrong, and most
likely need to be returned to a service center for repair.
The smaller Millermatic wire units also have the Auto-set feature.

A good quality 120V unit should be economical to own and use with
consistent performance evey time it's turned on.

Since you already have a gas regulator kit, you might consider a basic
model quality wire welder that has the solenoid valve already installed
(many do).

The Hobart units still appear to be made in U.S.A. and they're
availability is as widespread as any other manufacturers.
You may not find a continuously adjustable heat range on some models.

Years ago, my job involved setting up a small fabricating and machine
shop, and to produce small machines for the employer.
The wire welder welder that was bought was a cheap imported
bottom-of-the-barrel quality unit, that required more time repairing and
adjusting, than actual welding.

Later, for my own use, I bought a Hobart Handler 135, and after years of
occassional use, have never had any problems with it. It still works just
like it did when it was new.

--
WB
.........


Thanks for all the good information! The Hobart welders are what they carry
in all the farm supply type of stores around here. The Hobart 140 I looked
at today at Rural-King had only 4 steps for heat settings, the 180 and 210
version each had 7 steps. Have you ever had any problem with having steps
instead of continuously variable heat control?

Later I may get a bottle of Argon and see what damage I can do with my TIG
welder.

RogerN

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 19:23:02 -0500, "RogerN" wrote:


Went to my building full of stuff and brought my Century MIG welder home.
It is Century item number 83145. 130A @30% duty cycle, 145A max @20% duty
cycle. Primary 230VAC, 22A, I have sufficient 230V in the area, just need
to make a plug adapter/extension cord.

According to the front panel it is supposed to be able to go as low as 24Ga
steel. I haven't found the owners manual PDF online but I should have it
around here somewhere! :-) I was able to find a PDF exploded parts view of
it though.

http://www.centuryweldingparts.com/d...9,%2083145.pdf

I plan to get a bottle of argon/co2 mix tomorrow and connections so I can
plug it in to power. I'll give it a try on auto body and see how it does.
It has pots for amp and wire feed, not stepped adjustments, I don't see why
it wouldn't work OK.

RogerN


It should indeed work. Get as small a wire as you can..probably
..020-.024 and a few tips of the proper size. A GOOD wire cup wheel and
you should be good to go.

Btw...when trying something like this for the first time...I always weld
a bit on similar sized scrap, making adjustments and whatnot.

Ive had more than a few surprises when I didnt. Cringe.....


Gunner



Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 08:21:19 -0500, "RogerN" wrote:

Im not...not a body guy. Id rather take a beating than do body work.

But Ive got a little Lincoln Weldpac 100 and a Hobart 150 (220vot) that
do rather nicely for this sort of work. The Weldpak is 110volts and one
can easily install a gas kit into it for less than $100.

Ive had the Lincoln for at least 10 yrs, its banged around the inside of
my service trucks most of that time, and it still works just hunky dory.

Ive loaned the Lincoln out a number of times to buddies who do body work
and they all have had no issues with it. The Hobart gets less such work
as it is 220volt..but it will go down there just fine, with .020 wire,
just like the Lincoln.

I think the Lincoln runs $340ish or thereabouts and the Hobarts
replacement is about $450

Ebay may be one place to check as some..some..some of the pricing has
gone down as buyers have run out of money due to the economy and one can
find some really good deals occasionally.

I have found that with mig welders...getting one locally and actually
running a bead or 3 tends to be best..as you know exactly what you are
getting. And any issues have ether been correcte by the present
owner..or they will tell you about them if you ask properly.


Gunner, who buys and sells welding equipment

The current version on the Lincoln seems to be a SP140T the best I can tell,
they also have a Power MIG 140 for about $100+ more but I don't know what
the difference is other than the price.

RogerN

"Gunner Asch" wrote

Ayup..basiclly an updated and improved Weldpak.

Good stuff and check ebay for used ones.


The problem with trying to find small welders..is that most guys wont
sell one that works well. They dont take up a lot of room, they paid a
lot for it new and cant sell it for close to what they paid for it most
of the time...so they often simply sit on it and let it collect dust
between uses

Swap meets can often times find you something..but you had better be
good at haggling and there had best be power handy so you can test it.

Gunner


I have had good luck with just placing a "wanted" ad on craigslist or the
local Tradio AM show, or the local Quick Quarter. You find people before
they put things out to sale, and lots of times, they underprice their
article.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 18:57:32 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote

The only issue I have with the Weldpak is sometimes the spool tightens
up the wingnut holding the spool and stops the wire..other times the
wingnut comes loose while in storage in a vehicle and when I go to use
it..it has a big rats nest in the compartment. So I put big Dymo labels
on the front..CHECK SPOOL NUT!!! in bright yellow. Never had a
problem after that.

Gunner


I find that a larger than necessary diameter liner helps to extend the
lifespan of the liner, too.

Ayup. I put in a .045 liner about 2 yrs ago.

Gunner



Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com


One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 19:42:02 -0500, "RogerN" wrote:


"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...
If your present wire welder won't weld sheetmetal without burning holes,
there may be something wrong with the welder or your methods/techniques..
examine both closely.
You don't say if you've actually tried using the Century model, or if
you're just comparing advertising numbers.

You may not need a new liner in the gun/torch assembly to run .023" or
.025" wire. The C25 argon/CO2 mix is more expensive, but most likely the
best choice for sheetmetal and small wire.
Small wire size, low power output and C25 gas is what will make sheetmetal
work very easy.

When repairing rusty sheetmetal, any rusty spots are best avoided. The
weld should be applied where the surface is absolutely clean steel and
free of rust, and where rust hasn't eaten away at the back side of the
body metal.
If the body metal is rusted badly on the back side, the patch area needs
to be enlarged/extended.
The skills for proper welding are in the user, not the machine.

Don't get too carried away with the model numbers and marketing hype..
even the better brand name 120VAC wire welders are just 90 Amp units.
Ernie L (SEJW group) and others will confirm this.
The possibility of a little more output amperage is realistic only if the
unit requires a 30A 120VAC supply circuit.
Another aspect that many get carried away with is duty cycle.. unless
you're making long, continuous welds at high output current, duty cycle
isn't paramount.
During most home shop welding, the user is going to pause, changing
position or other small interruptions that reduce the actual weld-duty
time.
I would consider a better warranty period of more significance than a
slightly higher duty cycle, only because new stuff sometimes fails. A good
warranty and parts supply chain outweighs a full power, 100% duty cycle
IMO.

There are numerous quality 120V units available, that have parts readily
available in most locations.
Hobart is one very good brand, with wide availability from what I've seen,
but I haven't needed warranty repairs or major parts replacement.
All of the genuine Hobart consumable parts are readily available to me
locally, and if I would need a gun assembly or new liner, they're readily
available online, or thru local dealers.

This Mm 211 unit is multi-voltage unit with extra features like the
Auto-set and Smooth-start which appear to be additional electronic
circuits that may be nice, until they fail. I don't know what spatter-free
start is, but it sounds like marketing crap.
More features are generally just more things that can go wrong, and most
likely need to be returned to a service center for repair.
The smaller Millermatic wire units also have the Auto-set feature.

A good quality 120V unit should be economical to own and use with
consistent performance evey time it's turned on.

Since you already have a gas regulator kit, you might consider a basic
model quality wire welder that has the solenoid valve already installed
(many do).

The Hobart units still appear to be made in U.S.A. and they're
availability is as widespread as any other manufacturers.
You may not find a continuously adjustable heat range on some models.

Years ago, my job involved setting up a small fabricating and machine
shop, and to produce small machines for the employer.
The wire welder welder that was bought was a cheap imported
bottom-of-the-barrel quality unit, that required more time repairing and
adjusting, than actual welding.

Later, for my own use, I bought a Hobart Handler 135, and after years of
occassional use, have never had any problems with it. It still works just
like it did when it was new.

--
WB
.........


Thanks for all the good information! The Hobart welders are what they carry
in all the farm supply type of stores around here. The Hobart 140 I looked
at today at Rural-King had only 4 steps for heat settings, the 180 and 210
version each had 7 steps. Have you ever had any problem with having steps
instead of continuously variable heat control?

Later I may get a bottle of Argon and see what damage I can do with my TIG
welder.

RogerN

Cringe...yeah...steps tend to limit your fine work pretty badly. So
you will wind up holding the gun closer or farther away from the
weldment rather than learning to hold the same distance and simply
adjusting the arc.

Its not a deal breaker..but...something to be well aware of before
spending the money. Best to find a welder with a "volume control" type
of adjustment for both power..and wire speed. Makes setups much easier.

The old Weldpak 100 has steps...and while it works well for little
money..if you are going to be spending some bigger bucks....get what
works easily every time.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

"Gunner Asch" wrote

The only issue I have with the Weldpak is sometimes the spool tightens
up the wingnut holding the spool and stops the wire..other times the
wingnut comes loose while in storage in a vehicle and when I go to use
it..it has a big rats nest in the compartment. So I put big Dymo labels
on the front..CHECK SPOOL NUT!!! in bright yellow. Never had a
problem after that.

Gunner


I find that a larger than necessary diameter liner helps to extend the
lifespan of the liner, too.


Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 17:07:39 -0500, "Snag"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 11:48:08 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 08:21:19 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:


Any recommendations on a favorite MIG welder for auto body sheet
metal?

RogerN

You have conflicting objectives, wanting a MIG that can do heavier
welding, including aluminum, but still a best choice for autobody.

An excellent welder for autobody is the Lincoln SP125 plus, may be
SP135plus now, with continuously variable heat setting. If you
visit a restoration or custom body shop, that's what you'll see at
the workstations.

Ayup..basiclly an updated and improved Weldpak.

Gunner Asch

Got the Weldpak 100 with gas . Works sweet on up to 3/16" stick , for
bigger there's a Tombstone under the bench .
For body panel type stuff I tack-n-skip then go back and do it
again , then again . Helps keep flat panels flat - especially if I
hammer-n-dolly the welds between passes .

You are a very smart fellow!!


Not me , I just remember what I read . 6,000 WPM , 95+% comprehension when
I was in college , thank you Evelyn !
More like 600 WPM now , and mostly I read for pleasure or tech stuff if it
catches my famcy . There is a wealth of knowledge out there in cyberspace
just waiting to be learned if you know the right questions . I've learned
bunches here and at sejw.
--
Snag
Wannabe Machinist

"RogerN" wrote


I plan to get a bottle of argon/co2 mix tomorrow and connections so I can
plug it in to power. I'll give it a try on auto body and see how it does.
It has pots for amp and wire feed, not stepped adjustments, I don't see
why it wouldn't work OK.

RogerN

I have found that with thin sheet metal, it is better to make a series of
tacks, rather than long runs, as those generally fall through. Use the
color as a guide. Make a tack, and wait until it cools down to yellow
fading away. From the available glow of the light of the puddle, you should
have enough light to already be positioned for the next spot. I do it in a
push situation, pushing the next puddle in front of the other, rather than
pulling the wire away. Got some mighty fine stitch welds like that, and far
less burnthrough. If you burn through, it's a bitch to fill up the hole, or
stop and make a patch, and the patches look like hell. Jump around and let
it cool inbetween spots to keep distortion low.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 15:31:01 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 08:21:19 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:

I've been trying to do some body work and rust repair on my truck before I
sell it and I'm getting close to the point of needing to weld in some
metal
to replace the rusted metal. This isn't so much to increase the value of
the truck as it is to learn to do some body work and rust repair. My
welder
is a Century 145A (IIRC) 230V Sam's Club special that came with the MIG
Gas
regulator kit.

For my current location and to weld thin auto body sheet metal it would be
nice to have a 120V welder so I was looking at what is available. Seems
the
economical MIG welders (Harbor Freight, Northern Tool, etc.) are set up
for
flux core and the thinnest they advertise to weld is 18 Ga. and the
addition
of the MIG kit puts their price near the price of the little bit better
MIG
welders.

Looking around, I found a welder that looks interesting, a Millermatic
211.
It will run up to 140A on from 120V or up to 210A from a 230V supply.
Sounds like just what I need, light duty running out to my auto body and
heavier duty shop welding. Plus it is ready for a spool gun (on sale
locally for $179). Everything sounded great until I looked at the price,
$949 on sale locally, sounds like a good price for this welder but still
pretty expensive. It would fill all my MIG needs in one machine plus I
could add aluminum spool gun capability. And it looks like a bottle of
Argon for TIG + MIG aluminum and a bottle of 75/25 Argon/CO2 would set me
up
with all the gas I need for about anything I'm likely to weld.

Any recommendations on a favorite MIG welder for auto body sheet metal?

RogerN

You have conflicting objectives, wanting a MIG that can do heavier
welding, including aluminum, but still a best choice for autobody.

The dual voltage on the Millermatic 211 has conflicting capabilities, on
120V it has the exact same current and duty cycle ratings as the Millermatic
140, but on 230V it has capabilities of a higher power welder, that what has
caught my interest. However I may be better off getting a small 120V unit
for auto body and a used heavier welder for welding heavier metals and
aluminum.

An excellent welder for autobody is the Lincoln SP125 plus, may be
SP135plus now, with continuously variable heat setting. If you visit
a restoration or custom body shop, that's what you'll see at the
workstations.


I'll look them up and see what kind of deals they have on them at the local
welding suppliers. If I get a 230V extension cord I may be able to use my
Century MIG welder, I don't remember its specs but I think it can do thin
auto body sheet metals.

RogerN

It probably can. My Millermatic 210 can too, but the little red box
does it sooo much better. Depends on how demanding you intend to be
about your welds. My Millermatic 210 could do it but it'd probably
require more grinding and cleanup.

Having continuous heat control on the Century makes it look
promising, but Century is/was a second-tier supplier not as good as
Miller and Lincoln. BTW, Hobart and Miller are the same now.

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:56:40 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


An excellent welder for autobody is the Lincoln SP125 plus, may be
SP135plus now, with continuously variable heat setting. If you visit
a restoration or custom body shop, that's what you'll see at the
workstations.

Ayup..basiclly an updated and improved Weldpak.

Good stuff and check ebay for used ones.

They look similar, but does the Weldpak have continuously adjustable
heat (voltage) vs a 4-position switch?

I think the Weldpak line was/is a consumer "fighting model" sold thru
outlets like Northern and HD. I would not assume that it works as
well as an SP135 Plus for autobody. I also wouldn't assume that it
doesn't; try before buy if possible.

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 19:42:02 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:



Thanks for all the good information! The Hobart welders are what they carry
in all the farm supply type of stores around here. The Hobart 140 I looked
at today at Rural-King had only 4 steps for heat settings, the 180 and 210
version each had 7 steps. Have you ever had any problem with having steps
instead of continuously variable heat control?

YES.

Steps are OK for 1/16" metal and heavier, but for thin body metal the
ability to tweak to "just right" makes a huge difference. The
difference between good fusion and burnthru is rather narrow with thin
metal so getting heat, wire speed and welding speed all just right
makes all the difference.

I had an import MIG with a 4 position switch. I wasn't really
looking for another one when the guy at the welding store had me try
the little Linc. WOW! He was chuckling as he said he knew I wouldn't
leave without it. I definitely got my money's worth out of that
little red box doing rust work on the fleet at the time.

Later I may get a bottle of Argon and see what damage I can do with my TIG
welder.

RogerN

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 19:23:02 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:


Went to my building full of stuff and brought my Century MIG welder home.
It is Century item number 83145. 130A @30% duty cycle, 145A max @20% duty
cycle. Primary 230VAC, 22A, I have sufficient 230V in the area, just need
to make a plug adapter/extension cord.

According to the front panel it is supposed to be able to go as low as 24Ga
steel. I haven't found the owners manual PDF online but I should have it
around here somewhere! :-) I was able to find a PDF exploded parts view of
it though.

http://www.centuryweldingparts.com/d...9,%2083145.pdf

I plan to get a bottle of argon/co2 mix tomorrow and connections so I can
plug it in to power. I'll give it a try on auto body and see how it does.
It has pots for amp and wire feed, not stepped adjustments, I don't see why
it wouldn't work OK.

RogerN

It might. Continuous voltage control sounds promising.

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 19:01:44 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"RogerN" wrote


I plan to get a bottle of argon/co2 mix tomorrow and connections so I can
plug it in to power. I'll give it a try on auto body and see how it does.
It has pots for amp and wire feed, not stepped adjustments, I don't see
why it wouldn't work OK.

RogerN

I have found that with thin sheet metal, it is better to make a series of
tacks, rather than long runs, as those generally fall through. Use the
color as a guide. Make a tack, and wait until it cools down to yellow
fading away. From the available glow of the light of the puddle, you should
have enough light to already be positioned for the next spot. I do it in a
push situation, pushing the next puddle in front of the other, rather than
pulling the wire away. Got some mighty fine stitch welds like that, and far
less burnthrough. If you burn through, it's a bitch to fill up the hole, or
stop and make a patch, and the patches look like hell. Jump around and let
it cool inbetween spots to keep distortion low.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

Patching burnthrus is actually quite easy with continuous voltage
control. Just dial back both to where it works well for closing a
hole.

I would strongly recommend spending a couple of hours practicing
making and patching burnthrus on thin scrap. It'll be time very well
invested. Then when (not if) you get a burnthru, rather than cursing
you'll just grin with the thought, "no worry, mate, oy kin fix that
in a jif."

It definitely helps to have the metal bright clean. it is possible to
MIG weld thin metal that is dirty or has some surface rust or paint
residue, but it is not possible to get a good weld under those condx.
Gunnner is right on when he suggests having plenty of scrap practice
material at hand. I nearly always "calibrate my hands, ears, eyes
and machine" on a bit of scrap before I start welding for real if I
haven't welded for more than a few days.

That's not so true of TIG because TIG is so amenable to puddle
control, and independent real-time control of both heat and rate of
filler addition clear down to zero. It's less true of stick simply
because stick is seldom used on stock less than 1/8" and there's a lot
of latitude even with 1/8" rod and 1/8" stock.

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 23:24:09 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:56:40 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


An excellent welder for autobody is the Lincoln SP125 plus, may be
SP135plus now, with continuously variable heat setting. If you visit
a restoration or custom body shop, that's what you'll see at the
workstations.

Ayup..basiclly an updated and improved Weldpak.

Good stuff and check ebay for used ones.

They look similar, but does the Weldpak have continuously adjustable
heat (voltage) vs a 4-position switch?

Nope. 4 postition switch. But for $100-150 used...shrug
I ran some .020 wire with it not long ago and it was very usable, but I
did have to play with torch height a bit while welding before I found a
compromise height.


I think the Weldpak line was/is a consumer "fighting model" sold thru
outlets like Northern and HD. I would not assume that it works as
well as an SP135 Plus for autobody. I also wouldn't assume that it
doesn't; try before buy if possible.

Indeed.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:56:40 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


An excellent welder for autobody is the Lincoln SP125 plus, may be
SP135plus now, with continuously variable heat setting. If you visit
a restoration or custom body shop, that's what you'll see at the
workstations.

Ayup..basiclly an updated and improved Weldpak.

Good stuff and check ebay for used ones.

They look similar, but does the Weldpak have continuously adjustable
heat (voltage) vs a 4-position switch?

I think the Weldpak line was/is a consumer "fighting model" sold thru
outlets like Northern and HD. I would not assume that it works as
well as an SP135 Plus for autobody. I also wouldn't assume that it
doesn't; try before buy if possible.

You are correct. One of the main differences between the machines sold at
welding supply houses and the Borg was the infinite vs. step heat range.
With the infinite variety, you can up or down just a tad. With the jump,
it's just that, one's too hot, one's too cold. IIRC, the interior parts in
the Borg models had more parts made out of plastic. I opted for the SP175+
so I'd have all the bells and whistles. Except for the cranky trigger
switch, which I am about to change if this last fix doesn't cure it, I got
no complaints whatsoever. Had been a Miller man before that, but either is
good.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 19:42:02 -0500, "RogerN" wrote:


"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...
If your present wire welder won't weld sheetmetal without burning holes,
there may be something wrong with the welder or your
methods/techniques..
examine both closely.
You don't say if you've actually tried using the Century model, or if
you're just comparing advertising numbers.

You may not need a new liner in the gun/torch assembly to run .023" or
.025" wire. The C25 argon/CO2 mix is more expensive, but most likely the
best choice for sheetmetal and small wire.
Small wire size, low power output and C25 gas is what will make
sheetmetal
work very easy.

When repairing rusty sheetmetal, any rusty spots are best avoided. The
weld should be applied where the surface is absolutely clean steel and
free of rust, and where rust hasn't eaten away at the back side of the
body metal.
If the body metal is rusted badly on the back side, the patch area needs
to be enlarged/extended.
The skills for proper welding are in the user, not the machine.

Don't get too carried away with the model numbers and marketing hype..
even the better brand name 120VAC wire welders are just 90 Amp units.
Ernie L (SEJW group) and others will confirm this.
The possibility of a little more output amperage is realistic only if
the
unit requires a 30A 120VAC supply circuit.
Another aspect that many get carried away with is duty cycle.. unless
you're making long, continuous welds at high output current, duty cycle
isn't paramount.
During most home shop welding, the user is going to pause, changing
position or other small interruptions that reduce the actual weld-duty
time.
I would consider a better warranty period of more significance than a
slightly higher duty cycle, only because new stuff sometimes fails. A
good
warranty and parts supply chain outweighs a full power, 100% duty cycle
IMO.

There are numerous quality 120V units available, that have parts readily
available in most locations.
Hobart is one very good brand, with wide availability from what I've
seen,
but I haven't needed warranty repairs or major parts replacement.
All of the genuine Hobart consumable parts are readily available to me
locally, and if I would need a gun assembly or new liner, they're
readily
available online, or thru local dealers.

This Mm 211 unit is multi-voltage unit with extra features like the
Auto-set and Smooth-start which appear to be additional electronic
circuits that may be nice, until they fail. I don't know what
spatter-free
start is, but it sounds like marketing crap.
More features are generally just more things that can go wrong, and most
likely need to be returned to a service center for repair.
The smaller Millermatic wire units also have the Auto-set feature.

A good quality 120V unit should be economical to own and use with
consistent performance evey time it's turned on.

Since you already have a gas regulator kit, you might consider a basic
model quality wire welder that has the solenoid valve already installed
(many do).

The Hobart units still appear to be made in U.S.A. and they're
availability is as widespread as any other manufacturers.
You may not find a continuously adjustable heat range on some models.

Years ago, my job involved setting up a small fabricating and machine
shop, and to produce small machines for the employer.
The wire welder welder that was bought was a cheap imported
bottom-of-the-barrel quality unit, that required more time repairing and
adjusting, than actual welding.

Later, for my own use, I bought a Hobart Handler 135, and after years of
occassional use, have never had any problems with it. It still works
just
like it did when it was new.

--
WB
.........


Thanks for all the good information! The Hobart welders are what they
carry
in all the farm supply type of stores around here. The Hobart 140 I
looked
at today at Rural-King had only 4 steps for heat settings, the 180 and 210
version each had 7 steps. Have you ever had any problem with having steps
instead of continuously variable heat control?

Later I may get a bottle of Argon and see what damage I can do with my TIG
welder.

RogerN

Cringe...yeah...steps tend to limit your fine work pretty badly. So
you will wind up holding the gun closer or farther away from the
weldment rather than learning to hold the same distance and simply
adjusting the arc.

Its not a deal breaker..but...something to be well aware of before
spending the money. Best to find a welder with a "volume control" type
of adjustment for both power..and wire speed. Makes setups much easier.

The old Weldpak 100 has steps...and while it works well for little
money..if you are going to be spending some bigger bucks....get what
works easily every time.

Gunner

I like to "dial" mine in, that is, find out what settings work perfectly for
what, then keep a little 3 x 5 notebook of the settings. Compensating for
too low/too high amperage by adjusting stickout range is not a great thing.
If your stickout is too short, it burns back into the contactor tube. If it
is too long, you end up with a bb on the end of the wire, and either have to
trim it, or start with a bit of metal on the end of the wire.

I tell you, getting it "dialed in" on some scrap, then using the staggered
spot sequence will give you some dang pretty welds that make your work look
very very good. Also do rosette welds, where you drill a 1/8 or + hole in
one side of two pieces of metal that are going to fit flat against each
other. Clamp, and fill the hole, making it a really good spot that is as
strong as some of those that the robots do in the factories. Staggered
rosettes are also good for positioning a piece before welding it all around
to keep down warpage.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 19:42:02 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:



Thanks for all the good information! The Hobart welders are what they
carry
in all the farm supply type of stores around here. The Hobart 140 I
looked
at today at Rural-King had only 4 steps for heat settings, the 180 and 210
version each had 7 steps. Have you ever had any problem with having steps
instead of continuously variable heat control?

YES.

Steps are OK for 1/16" metal and heavier, but for thin body metal the
ability to tweak to "just right" makes a huge difference. The
difference between good fusion and burnthru is rather narrow with thin
metal so getting heat, wire speed and welding speed all just right
makes all the difference.

I had an import MIG with a 4 position switch. I wasn't really
looking for another one when the guy at the welding store had me try
the little Linc. WOW! He was chuckling as he said he knew I wouldn't
leave without it. I definitely got my money's worth out of that
little red box doing rust work on the fleet at the time.

Later I may get a bottle of Argon and see what damage I can do with my TIG
welder.

RogerN

What he said.

Steve

"RogerN" wrote in message
news

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 08:21:19 -0500, "RogerN" wrote:

Im not...not a body guy. Id rather take a beating than do body work.

But Ive got a little Lincoln Weldpac 100 and a Hobart 150 (220vot) that
do rather nicely for this sort of work. The Weldpak is 110volts and one
can easily install a gas kit into it for less than $100.

Ive had the Lincoln for at least 10 yrs, its banged around the inside of
my service trucks most of that time, and it still works just hunky dory.

Ive loaned the Lincoln out a number of times to buddies who do body work
and they all have had no issues with it. The Hobart gets less such work
as it is 220volt..but it will go down there just fine, with .020 wire,
just like the Lincoln.

I think the Lincoln runs $340ish or thereabouts and the Hobarts
replacement is about $450

Ebay may be one place to check as some..some..some of the pricing has
gone down as buyers have run out of money due to the economy and one can
find some really good deals occasionally.

I have found that with mig welders...getting one locally and actually
running a bead or 3 tends to be best..as you know exactly what you are
getting. And any issues have ether been correcte by the present
owner..or they will tell you about them if you ask properly.


Gunner, who buys and sells welding equipment

The current version on the Lincoln seems to be a SP140T the best I can
tell, they also have a Power MIG 140 for about $100+ more but I don't know
what the difference is other than the price.

RogerN

Probably either: a better gun, comes with a gas solenoid kit, has the
infinite vs/jump heat ranges, or has better component parts, and perhaps
even an extra set or two of rollers. First time your liner takes a dump,
put an .045" in there, and forget about it for about five years.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 19:23:02 -0500, "RogerN" wrote:


Went to my building full of stuff and brought my Century MIG welder home.
It is Century item number 83145. 130A @30% duty cycle, 145A max @20% duty
cycle. Primary 230VAC, 22A, I have sufficient 230V in the area, just need
to make a plug adapter/extension cord.

According to the front panel it is supposed to be able to go as low as
24Ga
steel. I haven't found the owners manual PDF online but I should have it
around here somewhere! :-) I was able to find a PDF exploded parts view
of
it though.

http://www.centuryweldingparts.com/d...9,%2083145.pdf

I plan to get a bottle of argon/co2 mix tomorrow and connections so I can
plug it in to power. I'll give it a try on auto body and see how it does.
It has pots for amp and wire feed, not stepped adjustments, I don't see
why
it wouldn't work OK.

RogerN


It should indeed work. Get as small a wire as you can..probably
.020-.024 and a few tips of the proper size. A GOOD wire cup wheel and
you should be good to go.

Btw...when trying something like this for the first time...I always weld
a bit on similar sized scrap, making adjustments and whatnot.

Ive had more than a few surprises when I didnt. Cringe.....


Gunner

I've never had good luck with long runs on thin stuff. I have had good luck
with staggered spot welds. If you make long runs, you get a LOT of warpage.

Or, that was my experience. Keep a little diary, and it will keep you from
experimenting around so much with scraps. It will also keep you from
blowing so many holes in stuff.

And importantly, torch angles so you make the puddle flow to the edge from
the flat piece works better, because if you start right on an edge, you will
burn it up instantly.

Get lots of scraps and practice a lot. Particularly spotting, rosettes,
pushing instead of pulling, staggering, and recognizing the color of when it
is just right cool to stack the next spot. And learn how to stack your
spots like the "stack of dimes" or snazzy looking TIG welds.

I'll do some soon and post them to flickr. I got a couple of projects
coming up. Might even do youtube. Would sure like to catch that on video
if my camera will cooperate.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 23:10:31 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 19:42:02 -0500, "RogerN" wrote:


"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...
If your present wire welder won't weld sheetmetal without burning holes,
there may be something wrong with the welder or your
methods/techniques..
examine both closely.
You don't say if you've actually tried using the Century model, or if
you're just comparing advertising numbers.

You may not need a new liner in the gun/torch assembly to run .023" or
.025" wire. The C25 argon/CO2 mix is more expensive, but most likely the
best choice for sheetmetal and small wire.
Small wire size, low power output and C25 gas is what will make
sheetmetal
work very easy.

When repairing rusty sheetmetal, any rusty spots are best avoided. The
weld should be applied where the surface is absolutely clean steel and
free of rust, and where rust hasn't eaten away at the back side of the
body metal.
If the body metal is rusted badly on the back side, the patch area needs
to be enlarged/extended.
The skills for proper welding are in the user, not the machine.

Don't get too carried away with the model numbers and marketing hype..
even the better brand name 120VAC wire welders are just 90 Amp units.
Ernie L (SEJW group) and others will confirm this.
The possibility of a little more output amperage is realistic only if
the
unit requires a 30A 120VAC supply circuit.
Another aspect that many get carried away with is duty cycle.. unless
you're making long, continuous welds at high output current, duty cycle
isn't paramount.
During most home shop welding, the user is going to pause, changing
position or other small interruptions that reduce the actual weld-duty
time.
I would consider a better warranty period of more significance than a
slightly higher duty cycle, only because new stuff sometimes fails. A
good
warranty and parts supply chain outweighs a full power, 100% duty cycle
IMO.

There are numerous quality 120V units available, that have parts readily
available in most locations.
Hobart is one very good brand, with wide availability from what I've
seen,
but I haven't needed warranty repairs or major parts replacement.
All of the genuine Hobart consumable parts are readily available to me
locally, and if I would need a gun assembly or new liner, they're
readily
available online, or thru local dealers.

This Mm 211 unit is multi-voltage unit with extra features like the
Auto-set and Smooth-start which appear to be additional electronic
circuits that may be nice, until they fail. I don't know what
spatter-free
start is, but it sounds like marketing crap.
More features are generally just more things that can go wrong, and most
likely need to be returned to a service center for repair.
The smaller Millermatic wire units also have the Auto-set feature.

A good quality 120V unit should be economical to own and use with
consistent performance evey time it's turned on.

Since you already have a gas regulator kit, you might consider a basic
model quality wire welder that has the solenoid valve already installed
(many do).

The Hobart units still appear to be made in U.S.A. and they're
availability is as widespread as any other manufacturers.
You may not find a continuously adjustable heat range on some models.

Years ago, my job involved setting up a small fabricating and machine
shop, and to produce small machines for the employer.
The wire welder welder that was bought was a cheap imported
bottom-of-the-barrel quality unit, that required more time repairing and
adjusting, than actual welding.

Later, for my own use, I bought a Hobart Handler 135, and after years of
occassional use, have never had any problems with it. It still works
just
like it did when it was new.

--
WB
.........


Thanks for all the good information! The Hobart welders are what they
carry
in all the farm supply type of stores around here. The Hobart 140 I
looked
at today at Rural-King had only 4 steps for heat settings, the 180 and 210
version each had 7 steps. Have you ever had any problem with having steps
instead of continuously variable heat control?

Later I may get a bottle of Argon and see what damage I can do with my TIG
welder.

RogerN

Cringe...yeah...steps tend to limit your fine work pretty badly. So
you will wind up holding the gun closer or farther away from the
weldment rather than learning to hold the same distance and simply
adjusting the arc.

Its not a deal breaker..but...something to be well aware of before
spending the money. Best to find a welder with a "volume control" type
of adjustment for both power..and wire speed. Makes setups much easier.

The old Weldpak 100 has steps...and while it works well for little
money..if you are going to be spending some bigger bucks....get what
works easily every time.

Gunner

I like to "dial" mine in, that is, find out what settings work perfectly for
what, then keep a little 3 x 5 notebook of the settings. Compensating for
too low/too high amperage by adjusting stickout range is not a great thing.
If your stickout is too short, it burns back into the contactor tube. If it
is too long, you end up with a bb on the end of the wire, and either have to
trim it, or start with a bit of metal on the end of the wire.

I tell you, getting it "dialed in" on some scrap, then using the staggered
spot sequence will give you some dang pretty welds that make your work look
very very good. Also do rosette welds, where you drill a 1/8 or + hole in
one side of two pieces of metal that are going to fit flat against each
other. Clamp, and fill the hole, making it a really good spot that is as
strong as some of those that the robots do in the factories. Staggered
rosettes are also good for positioning a piece before welding it all around
to keep down warpage.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com


Indeed. Ive got a few MIG welders..and the little Weldpac 100 gets a
fair amount of use when Im out in a customers shop.

Gunner
Lincoln Weldpack 100
Dan-Mig 200
Miller 35 (straight wire)
Miller 35 Husky 300 Feeder (aluminum)
Airco PhaseArc 300 (300 amp 3ph)
Ranger 9 with LNS-8 feeder



One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

"RogerN" wrote in message
m...
I've been trying to do some body work and rust repair on my truck before I
sell it and I'm getting close to the point of needing to weld in some
metal to replace the rusted metal. This isn't so much to increase the
value of the truck as it is to learn to do some body work and rust repair.
My welder is a Century 145A (IIRC) 230V Sam's Club special that came with
the MIG Gas regulator kit.
snip

Use the Century! Those little welders don't do sheet metal well, especially
imperfect sheet metal. Dial down and "stitch weld" with short "baps" with
cooling time between close welds. Have the metal as clean as you can.

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 15:31:01 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 08:21:19 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:

I've been trying to do some body work and rust repair on my truck before
I
sell it and I'm getting close to the point of needing to weld in some
metal
to replace the rusted metal. This isn't so much to increase the value
of
the truck as it is to learn to do some body work and rust repair. My
welder
is a Century 145A (IIRC) 230V Sam's Club special that came with the MIG
Gas
regulator kit.

For my current location and to weld thin auto body sheet metal it would
be
nice to have a 120V welder so I was looking at what is available. Seems
the
economical MIG welders (Harbor Freight, Northern Tool, etc.) are set up
for
flux core and the thinnest they advertise to weld is 18 Ga. and the
addition
of the MIG kit puts their price near the price of the little bit better
MIG
welders.

Looking around, I found a welder that looks interesting, a Millermatic
211.
It will run up to 140A on from 120V or up to 210A from a 230V supply.
Sounds like just what I need, light duty running out to my auto body and
heavier duty shop welding. Plus it is ready for a spool gun (on sale
locally for $179). Everything sounded great until I looked at the
price,
$949 on sale locally, sounds like a good price for this welder but still
pretty expensive. It would fill all my MIG needs in one machine plus I
could add aluminum spool gun capability. And it looks like a bottle of
Argon for TIG + MIG aluminum and a bottle of 75/25 Argon/CO2 would set
me
up
with all the gas I need for about anything I'm likely to weld.

Any recommendations on a favorite MIG welder for auto body sheet metal?

RogerN

You have conflicting objectives, wanting a MIG that can do heavier
welding, including aluminum, but still a best choice for autobody.

The dual voltage on the Millermatic 211 has conflicting capabilities, on
120V it has the exact same current and duty cycle ratings as the
Millermatic
140, but on 230V it has capabilities of a higher power welder, that what
has
caught my interest. However I may be better off getting a small 120V unit
for auto body and a used heavier welder for welding heavier metals and
aluminum.

An excellent welder for autobody is the Lincoln SP125 plus, may be
SP135plus now, with continuously variable heat setting. If you visit
a restoration or custom body shop, that's what you'll see at the
workstations.


I'll look them up and see what kind of deals they have on them at the
local
welding suppliers. If I get a 230V extension cord I may be able to use my
Century MIG welder, I don't remember its specs but I think it can do thin
auto body sheet metals.

RogerN

It probably can. My Millermatic 210 can too, but the little red box
does it sooo much better. Depends on how demanding you intend to be
about your welds. My Millermatic 210 could do it but it'd probably
require more grinding and cleanup.

Having continuous heat control on the Century makes it look
promising, but Century is/was a second-tier supplier not as good as
Miller and Lincoln. BTW, Hobart and Miller are the same now.


It looks like today's Century welders are made by Lincoln. The Lincoln
sounds great, the current model I'm finding is a SP140T, do you know if one
of those are suitable for auto body like I want? Currently I plan to get a
bottle of Gas and some sheet metal and start practicing with the Century and
looking at/for a Lincoln 120V SP.

RogerN

"Steve B" wrote in message
...


I tell you, getting it "dialed in" on some scrap, then using the staggered
spot sequence will give you some dang pretty welds that make your work
look very very good. Also do rosette welds, where you drill a 1/8 or +
hole in one side of two pieces of metal that are going to fit flat against
each other. Clamp, and fill the hole, making it a really good spot that
is as strong as some of those that the robots do in the factories.
Staggered rosettes are also good for positioning a piece before welding it
all around to keep down warpage.

Steve

The punch/flange tool comes in handy for making those holes. Cleco's are
also a good thing to have for sheetmetal work.

The 4-position heat selector on the Hobart Handler 135 that I use, isn't an
issue for me, or for a friend who has primarily used a basic Lincoln model
for years.

If I feel that the selected range is hot for sheetmetal, allowing a little
more wire stick-out, or moving a little faster keeps everything working
well.
The wire feed speed is infinitely adjustable, so that allows the user to
dial-in the speed of movement too.

Last fall, a friend and I tackled a windshield opening repair job on his big
motorcoach. The Hobart worked fine with new sheetmetal fitted into openings
where the rusty old steel had been cut away.
The welding was done with C25 gas and .025" wire at the Heat 2 setting with
essentially no problems.
There was a lot of rust damage that resulted in numerous water leaks, but
the more serious problem was that the 2 huge, very expensive windshield
sections are nearly vertical, and they're glued in place.
I wanted to do more experimenting with the Heat 1 range and new sheetmetal,
but got sidetracked onto something else.

I tend to push weld in most cases, instead of the drag technique, for better
visibility and more predictable/desired results.

I also have another MIG welder that I haven't used yet. It has several
additional weld features that aren't usually found on basic units, since it
was marketed to autoody shops, but the extra features may not be very
significant.
It's an older Solar/Century 120VAC model with an integral wheeled
cart/storage cabinet.
There were a number of accessories and methods described in the manual that
I hadn't heard of before.
There is an adapter for holding a carbon rod, which can be used for heating
(bending or shrinking), but also for brazing with common brazing rod used in
conjunction with the attached carbon rod.

--
WB
..........


"RogerN" wrote in message
m...

Thanks for all the good information! The Hobart welders are what they
carry in all the farm supply type of stores around here. The Hobart 140 I
looked at today at Rural-King had only 4 steps for heat settings, the 180
and 210 version each had 7 steps. Have you ever had any problem with
having steps instead of continuously variable heat control?

Later I may get a bottle of Argon and see what damage I can do with my TIG
welder.

RogerN

On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 05:31:17 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:



An excellent welder for autobody is the Lincoln SP125 plus, may be
SP135plus now, with continuously variable heat setting. If you visit
a restoration or custom body shop, that's what you'll see at the
workstations.


I'll look them up and see what kind of deals they have on them at the
local
welding suppliers. If I get a 230V extension cord I may be able to use my
Century MIG welder, I don't remember its specs but I think it can do thin
auto body sheet metals.

RogerN

It probably can. My Millermatic 210 can too, but the little red box
does it sooo much better. Depends on how demanding you intend to be
about your welds. My Millermatic 210 could do it but it'd probably
require more grinding and cleanup.

Having continuous heat control on the Century makes it look
promising, but Century is/was a second-tier supplier not as good as
Miller and Lincoln. BTW, Hobart and Miller are the same now.


It looks like today's Century welders are made by Lincoln. The Lincoln
sounds great, the current model I'm finding is a SP140T, do you know if one
of those are suitable for auto body like I want? Currently I plan to get a
bottle of Gas and some sheet metal and start practicing with the Century and
looking at/for a Lincoln 120V SP.


I have no personal experience with the SP140T, but it has 4 taps
rather than continuous control. The SP140C would be a better choice
for autobody.

For more on this, see
http://reviews.ebay.com/BUYING-A-MIG...:-1:LISTINGS:1