I had been putting off getting an AXA16N tool holder because of the
cost. So I was really disappointed when I missed the 30% off special
MSC had on Thursday and Friday. :-(

Nevertheless, it has given me more time to think about whether I need
it or not.

Since I have a Mini lathe which is not as rigid as the larger machines
I'd have to be careful what I use it on. My understanding is that I
can use inserts that have a chip breaker groove, but the push for me
to get one of these tool holder is that it'll allow me to get the most
out of each insert.(Six sides instead of three).

So until another deal comes around I'd appreciate opinions. Is my
logic faulty?

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On Sat, 8 May 2010 21:22:55 -0700 (PDT), Searcher7
wrote:

I had been putting off getting an AXA16N tool holder because of the
cost. So I was really disappointed when I missed the 30% off special
MSC had on Thursday and Friday. :-(

Nevertheless, it has given me more time to think about whether I need
it or not.

Since I have a Mini lathe which is not as rigid as the larger machines
I'd have to be careful what I use it on. My understanding is that I
can use inserts that have a chip breaker groove, but the push for me
to get one of these tool holder is that it'll allow me to get the most
out of each insert.(Six sides instead of three).

So until another deal comes around I'd appreciate opinions. Is my
logic faulty?

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

My opinion and strong guidance, particularly on a small lathe, would
be to use HSS rather than carbide.

I have a fairly robust (1500 lb or so) 15 x 50 lathe with an Aloris
toolpost and I have a BXA16 toolholder, but the tool I use 95% of the
time is the Diamond Toolholder with 1/4" square HSS bits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUAPrkC7Q-Q
http://www.eccentricengineering.com....=2&Ite mid=17

I made an Aloris-compatible block to hold the DHH at the angle it
likes so the toolpost could be square to the spindle axis. That
enables me to pull the DTH and drop on other tools for boring, parting
and threading with no adjustment of toolpost angle necessary. Very
convenient!

It is nobrainer simple to grind the HSS bit with the fixture that
comes with the DTH, and it works very well on most materials. It can
both turn and face without changing tool position. With a bit of
radius on the corner, I get very good finish.

I use the DTH on everything from plastic to stainless.
I only use carbide on really hard stuff like CTA (chevy truck axle).

The AXA16 would be a better choice if you intend to take aggressive
blue smoking chip "production" cuts in stainless -- but a minilathe
is not nearly rigid enough for that to work well. Carbide likes both
aggressive and fast, HSS is better-suited for smaller machines and
more patient machinists.

Carbide is great for production, HSS is much better suited for small
machines and model shops or home machinists. HSS takes a sharper edge
than carbide can, so it cuts with less force that deflects both
machine and workpiece. One grinds HSS bits, rotates carbide inserts.

I don't think I have ever dulled a carbide insert more than it was to
begin with. They chip first. When they chip,even microscopically,
that edge becomes useless other than for very gross roughing.

On Sun, 09 May 2010 01:26:47 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:


So until another deal comes around I'd appreciate opinions. Is my
logic faulty?

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

My opinion and strong guidance, particularly on a small lathe, would
be to use HSS rather than carbide.

I agree 100%

Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Sun, 09 May 2010 01:26:47 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:


I have a fairly robust (1500 lb or so) 15 x 50 lathe with an Aloris
toolpost and I have a BXA16 toolholder, but the tool I use 95% of the
time is the Diamond Toolholder with 1/4" square HSS bits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUAPrkC7Q-Q
http://www.eccentricengineering.com....=2&Ite mid=17

I made an Aloris-compatible block to hold the DHH at the angle it
likes so the toolpost could be square to the spindle axis. That
enables me to pull the DTH and drop on other tools for boring, parting
and threading with no adjustment of toolpost angle necessary. Very
convenient!

That really looks pretty good. Are there any plans on the net for a
home made version of the tool holder and grinding jig that anyone's
aware of? It doesn't look like it would be too difficult to make.

RWL

On 2010-05-09, Searcher7 wrote:
I had been putting off getting an AXA16N tool holder because of the
cost. So I was really disappointed when I missed the 30% off special
MSC had on Thursday and Friday. :-(

Nevertheless, it has given me more time to think about whether I need
it or not.

Since I have a Mini lathe which is not as rigid as the larger machines
I'd have to be careful what I use it on.

AXA sized tooling is for larger lathes than your 7" one. I
normally consider the AXA size toolpost to start with 9" lathes, though
I do find the old Atlas 6" shown in their chart as working with the AXA
toolpost.

The chart can be gotten from their web site at:

http://www.aloris.com/index.php/pages/Aloris%20Catalog.html

and click on "Recommendations, Tool Posts to Lathes" which will get
you the chart from their catalog.

Do you actually have an AXA toolpost on your Mini Lathe? I
thought that those were handled by smaller toolposts, made specifically
for the smaller lathes because Aloris did not cover them.

And without an AXA toolpost, the AXA16N won't do you *any* good.

Unless I have missed something in the chart, The 6" Atlas is the
only lathe smaller than 9" even listed.

*Please* don't just say "Mini Lathe" -- say the size whenever
you make one of these postings.

Hmm ... there is a Model A2 toolpost and holders set for small
lathes. One dovetail, but it uses the same dovetail size as the AXA.

My understanding is that I
can use inserts that have a chip breaker groove, but the push for me
to get one of these tool holder is that it'll allow me to get the most
out of each insert.(Six sides instead of three).

I'm not sure that you can even use the ones with the chip
breaker, given the reputation for rigidity (or lack thereof) on the
small lathes.

So until another deal comes around I'd appreciate opinions. Is my
logic faulty?

Double check whether you can use AXA tool holders at all on your
toolpost.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

As DoN suggests, there are several small tool posts specifically suited for
mini lathe use (Phase II, A2Z and other brands are available in quick-change
models).

I see that a couple of Aloris tool posts are stated as being for small
lathes the A2, and for bench lathes and jewelry lathes the MA (catalog page
26).
I didn't compare the dimensions of these models to the AXA, but it may be
worthwhile before obtaining several pieces of tooling that may not be what
you expected.

I consider the AXA/100 series posts to be too large for a mini lathe,
considering that mini lathe generally means the 7x10 models lathes from
China (7x10/12/14").
But then many small lathe users will do just about anything to elimate the
use of the turret tool post originally supplied with the small lathes.

Setting cutting tool cutting edges to the correct centerline height isn't
extremely complicated, although is becomes tedious if different combinations
of shims are required every time a cutting tool is changed.

There are some very handy gizmos that were suggested to me by a friend years
ago, that eliminate the shims for setting centerline height of the cutting
tool in a turret tool post.
As I've mentioned before, the gizmos are fairly easily made, even on a small
lathe. I made my first set of them on my 9x20 lathe.
A short length of square bar stock (~2.5") is milled with a centered,
lenghtwise slot the same size of the HSS cutting tools. The slot is angled
in depth, so that at one end the slot is slightly deeper. The appropriate
depth of the slot will be more than half the thickness of the square stock.
The specific angle isn't very critical if one makes several gizmos with
slightly different angles.

As the cutting edge is likely to be different on various ground HSS cutting
tools, the gizmos allow vertical height adjustment of the cutting edge. The
cutting tool is placed in the slot of the gizmo (on the turret tool post),
and the cutting tool and gizmo are adjusted in/out to set the proper cutting
edge height. Then the turret's tool holding screws are tightened.
This method is almost as fast as a QCTP, and costs nearly nothing (an
endmill and some pieces of square bar stock).

I did see one 7x mini lathe modification recently where the user had milled
away the corners of the plinth on the compound slide to accomodate using an
AXA/100 series tool post, since the actual tool holder had to be adjusted so
low on the post (below the bottom surface of the tool post body).

I suspect that many small lathe users think a more rigid tool post will
improve the overall rigidity of the small, light duty machines.
A heavy duty tool post doesn't fix the relatively poor design of the
components above the cross slide.
The compound slides and their mounting bases found on the light duty small
lathes from China need more improvement than just bolting something new on
top of them, IMO.

I also suspect that many small lathe users consider carbide tooling to be
the proper tooling for these machines, and/or they can't be bothered to
learn how to grind HSS cutting tools.

I tend to think of the scale of a machine should determine which size tool
post is an appropriate match. Apparently, scale isn't a consideration for
many small lathe users.

The convenience of quick-change tool holders is attractive, but adding a
tool post with better features doesn't improve the overall performance of a
poorly designed machine.

FWIW, many 9x20 lathe users fit an AXA/100 series tool post on the compound
slide, or remove the compound for turning, and mount the QC tool post on the
cross slide with a shop-made riser block.

--
WB
..........


"Searcher7" wrote in message
...
I had been putting off getting an AXA16N tool holder because of the
cost. So I was really disappointed when I missed the 30% off special
MSC had on Thursday and Friday. :-(

Nevertheless, it has given me more time to think about whether I need
it or not.

Since I have a Mini lathe which is not as rigid as the larger machines
I'd have to be careful what I use it on. My understanding is that I
can use inserts that have a chip breaker groove, but the push for me
to get one of these tool holder is that it'll allow me to get the most
out of each insert.(Six sides instead of three).

So until another deal comes around I'd appreciate opinions. Is my
logic faulty?

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On May 10, 8:30*am, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
As DoN suggests, there are several small tool posts specifically suited for
mini lathe use (Phase II, A2Z and other brands are available in quick-change
models).

I see that a couple of Aloris tool posts are stated as being for small
lathes the A2, and for bench lathes and jewelry lathes the MA (catalog page
26).
I didn't compare the dimensions of these models to the AXA, but it may be
worthwhile before obtaining several pieces of tooling that may not be what
you expected.

I consider the AXA/100 series posts to be too large for a mini lathe,
considering that mini lathe generally means the 7x10 models lathes from
China (7x10/12/14").
But then many small lathe users will do just about anything to elimate the
use of the *turret tool post originally supplied with the small lathes.

Setting cutting tool cutting edges to the correct centerline height isn't
extremely complicated, although is becomes tedious if different combinations
of shims are required every time a cutting tool is changed.

There are some very handy gizmos that were suggested to me by a friend years
ago, that eliminate the shims for setting centerline height of the cutting
tool in a turret tool post.
As I've mentioned before, the gizmos are fairly easily made, even on a small
lathe. I made my first set of them on my 9x20 lathe.
A short length of square bar stock (~2.5") is milled with a centered,
lenghtwise slot the same size of the HSS cutting tools. The slot is angled
in depth, so that at one end the slot is slightly deeper. The appropriate
depth of the slot will be more than half the thickness of the square stock.
The specific angle isn't very critical if one makes several gizmos with
slightly different angles.

As the cutting edge is likely to be different on various ground HSS cutting
tools, the gizmos allow vertical height adjustment of the cutting edge. The
cutting tool is placed in the slot of the gizmo (on the turret tool post),
and the cutting tool and gizmo are adjusted in/out to set the proper cutting
edge height. Then the turret's tool holding screws are tightened.
This method is almost as fast as a QCTP, and costs nearly nothing (an
endmill and some pieces of square bar stock).

I did see one 7x mini lathe modification recently where the user had milled
away the corners of the plinth on the compound slide to accomodate using an
AXA/100 series tool post, since the actual tool holder had to be adjusted so
low on the post (below the bottom surface of the tool post body).

I suspect that many small lathe users think a more rigid tool post will
improve the overall rigidity of the small, light duty machines.
A heavy duty tool post doesn't fix the relatively poor design of the
components above the cross slide.
The compound slides and their mounting bases found on the light duty small
lathes from China need more improvement than just bolting something new on
top of them, IMO.

I also suspect that many small lathe users consider carbide tooling to be
the proper tooling for these machines, and/or they can't be bothered to
learn how to grind HSS cutting tools.

I tend to think of the scale of a machine should determine which size tool
post is an appropriate match. Apparently, scale isn't a consideration for
many small lathe users.

The convenience of quick-change tool holders is attractive, but adding a
tool post with better features doesn't improve the overall performance of a
poorly designed machine.

FWIW, many 9x20 lathe users fit an AXA/100 series tool post on the compound
slide, or remove the compound for turning, and mount the QC tool post on the
cross slide with a shop-made riser block.

--
WB
.........

"Searcher7" wrote in message

...

I had been putting off getting an AXA16N tool holder because of the
cost. So I was really disappointed when I missed the 30% off special
MSC had on Thursday and Friday. :-(

Nevertheless, it has given me more time to think about whether I need
it or not.

Since I have a Mini lathe which is not as rigid as the larger machines
I'd have to be careful what I use it on. My understanding is that I
can use inserts that have a chip breaker groove, but the push for me
to get one of these tool holder is that it'll allow me to get the most
out of each insert.(Six sides instead of three).

So until another deal comes around I'd appreciate opinions. Is my
logic faulty?

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

I wouldn't say the mini lathes are "poorly designed". They just have a
lower capacity than the larger lathes.

When Don and I discussed this years ago, he is the one who mentioned
my need for the modified compound to use my AXA tool post with.

My lathe is the Microlux 7" x 14". And it is common in the mini lathe
community to replace the OEM tool posts with AXA tool post on these
type of lathes. And the consensus is that it improves the overall
performance of the machines.

http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=2280
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=1777

Again, HHS would be the norm, but I there are advantages to insert
tooling.

MSC is now offering another special. "Save up to 35% off all orders
over $199".

So I have to make a decision quickly. :-)

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On Mon, 10 May 2010 07:34:55 -0700 (PDT), Searcher7
wrote:

On May 10, 8:30*am, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
As DoN suggests, there are several small tool posts specifically suited for
mini lathe use (Phase II, A2Z and other brands are available in quick-change
models).

I see that a couple of Aloris tool posts are stated as being for small
lathes the A2, and for bench lathes and jewelry lathes the MA (catalog page
26).
I didn't compare the dimensions of these models to the AXA, but it may be
worthwhile before obtaining several pieces of tooling that may not be what
you expected.

I consider the AXA/100 series posts to be too large for a mini lathe,
considering that mini lathe generally means the 7x10 models lathes from
China (7x10/12/14").
But then many small lathe users will do just about anything to elimate the
use of the *turret tool post originally supplied with the small lathes.

Setting cutting tool cutting edges to the correct centerline height isn't
extremely complicated, although is becomes tedious if different combinations
of shims are required every time a cutting tool is changed.

There are some very handy gizmos that were suggested to me by a friend years
ago, that eliminate the shims for setting centerline height of the cutting
tool in a turret tool post.
As I've mentioned before, the gizmos are fairly easily made, even on a small
lathe. I made my first set of them on my 9x20 lathe.
A short length of square bar stock (~2.5") is milled with a centered,
lenghtwise slot the same size of the HSS cutting tools. The slot is angled
in depth, so that at one end the slot is slightly deeper. The appropriate
depth of the slot will be more than half the thickness of the square stock.
The specific angle isn't very critical if one makes several gizmos with
slightly different angles.

As the cutting edge is likely to be different on various ground HSS cutting
tools, the gizmos allow vertical height adjustment of the cutting edge. The
cutting tool is placed in the slot of the gizmo (on the turret tool post),
and the cutting tool and gizmo are adjusted in/out to set the proper cutting
edge height. Then the turret's tool holding screws are tightened.
This method is almost as fast as a QCTP, and costs nearly nothing (an
endmill and some pieces of square bar stock).

I did see one 7x mini lathe modification recently where the user had milled
away the corners of the plinth on the compound slide to accomodate using an
AXA/100 series tool post, since the actual tool holder had to be adjusted so
low on the post (below the bottom surface of the tool post body).

I suspect that many small lathe users think a more rigid tool post will
improve the overall rigidity of the small, light duty machines.
A heavy duty tool post doesn't fix the relatively poor design of the
components above the cross slide.
The compound slides and their mounting bases found on the light duty small
lathes from China need more improvement than just bolting something new on
top of them, IMO.

I also suspect that many small lathe users consider carbide tooling to be
the proper tooling for these machines, and/or they can't be bothered to
learn how to grind HSS cutting tools.

I tend to think of the scale of a machine should determine which size tool
post is an appropriate match. Apparently, scale isn't a consideration for
many small lathe users.

The convenience of quick-change tool holders is attractive, but adding a
tool post with better features doesn't improve the overall performance of a
poorly designed machine.

FWIW, many 9x20 lathe users fit an AXA/100 series tool post on the compound
slide, or remove the compound for turning, and mount the QC tool post on the
cross slide with a shop-made riser block.

--
WB
.........

"Searcher7" wrote in message

...

I had been putting off getting an AXA16N tool holder because of the
cost. So I was really disappointed when I missed the 30% off special
MSC had on Thursday and Friday. :-(

Nevertheless, it has given me more time to think about whether I need
it or not.

Since I have a Mini lathe which is not as rigid as the larger machines
I'd have to be careful what I use it on. My understanding is that I
can use inserts that have a chip breaker groove, but the push for me
to get one of these tool holder is that it'll allow me to get the most
out of each insert.(Six sides instead of three).

So until another deal comes around I'd appreciate opinions. Is my
logic faulty?

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

I wouldn't say the mini lathes are "poorly designed". They just have a
lower capacity than the larger lathes.

When Don and I discussed this years ago, he is the one who mentioned
my need for the modified compound to use my AXA tool post with.

My lathe is the Microlux 7" x 14". And it is common in the mini lathe
community to replace the OEM tool posts with AXA tool post on these
type of lathes. And the consensus is that it improves the overall
performance of the machines.

http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=2280
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=1777

Again, HHS would be the norm, but I there are advantages to insert
tooling.

MSC is now offering another special. "Save up to 35% off all orders
over $199".

So I have to make a decision quickly. :-)

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.


Just as a curiostity to those that may know..is KDK better or worse than
this sort of tooling?

And why?

Gunner, KDK user on all 4 lathes


--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

You may find that the popular consensus for a lot of things is far from
reality.

What I described the mini lathes as; is light duty and a poorly designed
compound slide and mounting method.
However, put a cover over the carriage gears so chips won't jam the gears,
as they can easily just fall in there. Titanium would be a good choice, but
plastic will suffice.

I didn't imagine the ideas that I submitted.. I own a Clarke 7x12 ($410
total) and an Enco 9x20 ($600 delivered), both bought new. My other machine
was bought used.
I have 3 series 100 (AXA) tool post sets, Phase II wedge and piston, and a
HF total piece of crap made in India.

There are few, if any advantages to actual cutting performance, as far as
using carbide inserts instead of appropriately ground HSS on machines as
small as a 7" mini lathe, or most small bench lathes.

The motor on most 7x mini lathes is about the size of a 1/2" corded drill
motor, and
not all of that power gets to the workpiece.
Micromark shows the weight of the Microlux 7x14 as 90 lbs without
accessories.

Just curious, Darren, what metal are the headstock gears made of?

There are 2 MSC customer appreciation days scheduled this year, kind-of a
tent sale/mini trade show specials on many of their goods, including Aloris
(that's where I saw the dates shown).

Enco carries many of the products MSC carries, and they have specials every
month.

In the final assessment, watts are watts.. and small industrial lathe
performance can't be attained with a Chinese hobbiest grade mini lathe.
Consistent performance and elimination of chatter are realistic goals.

I've seen most of the LMS and other add-on parts, and after installing all
of them, a mini lathe still won't perform like a small industrial lathe.
The end result could be the first $5,000 mini lathe, though.

--
WB
..........


"Searcher7" wrote in message
...

I wouldn't say the mini lathes are "poorly designed". They just have a
lower capacity than the larger lathes.

When Don and I discussed this years ago, he is the one who mentioned
my need for the modified compound to use my AXA tool post with.

My lathe is the Microlux 7" x 14". And it is common in the mini lathe
community to replace the OEM tool posts with AXA tool post on these
type of lathes. And the consensus is that it improves the overall
performance of the machines.

http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=2280
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=1777

Again, HHS would be the norm, but I there are advantages to insert
tooling.

MSC is now offering another special. "Save up to 35% off all orders
over $199".

So I have to make a decision quickly. :-)

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On 2010-05-10, Searcher7 wrote:
On May 10, 8:30*am, "Wild_Bill" wrote:
As DoN suggests, there are several small tool posts specifically suited for
mini lathe use (Phase II, A2Z and other brands are available in quick-change
models).

[ ... ]

The convenience of quick-change tool holders is attractive, but adding a
tool post with better features doesn't improve the overall performance of a
poorly designed machine.

[ ... ]

I wouldn't say the mini lathes are "poorly designed". They just have a
lower capacity than the larger lathes.

But many of them *are* "poorly manufactured", so that the
general advice is to disassemble a new one, clean sand out, debur the
slides and other such parts, relubricate and re-assemble it. They are
often referred to as "pre-assembled kits". :-)

When Don and I discussed this years ago, he is the one who mentioned
my need for the modified compound to use my AXA tool post with.

My lathe is the Microlux 7" x 14". And it is common in the mini lathe
community to replace the OEM tool posts with AXA tool post on these
type of lathes. And the consensus is that it improves the overall
performance of the machines.

It should certainly improve the rigidity -- as long as the
slides are cleaned and deburred.

Whether it is rigid enough to realistically use carbide inserts
remains to be seen.

I was probably thinking of larger machines when I brought up the
16N toolholders. (BXA16N is what I use on the Clausing, FWIW.)

And since you did not yet have a lathe at that time (IIRC) I
would sometimes lose track of the size of lathe which you expected to
get.

http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=2280
http://littlemachineshop.com/product...ProductID=1777

O.K. *This* is what makes it possible -- lowering the total
compound height so it will accommodate the range of the AXA toolpost
(and clones).

Again, HHS would be the norm, but I there are advantages to insert
tooling.

In particular, when doing production work, you can turn (or
replace) an insert and continue working with the same settings, while
with HSS, you always have to re-establish the zero locations on the
dials.

MSC is now offering another special. "Save up to 35% off all orders
over $199".

O.K. I could have benefited from that with last Friday's
order. But I at least got the 30% savings, and hadn't even known about
it until I called in my order. :-)

So I have to make a decision quickly. :-)

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2010-05-11, Searcher7 wrote:
On May 10, 11:28*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

But would you recommend the AXA16 for a mini(7" x 14") lathe?

Instead of the 16N? It does give you positive rake inserts,
which are easier to break, but are perhaps better than the general
negative rake inserts on a light duty lathe such as yours. With the
proper inserts, in which a chipbreakr groove turns it into an effective
positive rake, you get most of the benefits of the 16N toolholder.

What about these? 130366196580 & 350341969285

I spent a long time answering this question last night (I think
that these are the same auction numbers, but if not, they are the same
general types, and I would *not* advise these.

And I won't spend a similar time duplicating what I did last
night. Just read what I posted.

Cheap toolholders are cheap for a reason. They are not as good.

I also have an AXA12N, but I guess I can trade of sell that for a
AXA12. :-)

Try the 12N and see how the inserts work for you. If they work,
go for the 16N in your size (AXA). If not, try the 12 and see how it
works for you.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On May 12, 1:04*am, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-11, Searcher7 wrote:

On May 10, 11:28*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

* * * * [ ... ]

But would you recommend the AXA16 for a mini(7" x 14") lathe?

* * * * Instead of the 16N? *It does give you positive rake inserts,
which are easier to break, but are perhaps better than the general
negative rake inserts on a light duty lathe such as yours. *With the
proper inserts, in which a chipbreakr groove turns it into an effective
positive rake, you get most of the benefits of the 16N toolholder.

Except the most important one for me. The option of using all six
sides of an insert.

What about these? 130366196580 & 350341969285

* * * * I spent a long time answering this question last night (I think
that these are the same auction numbers, but if not, they are the same
general types, and I would *not* advise these.

* * * * And I won't spend a similar time duplicating what I did last
night. *Just read what I posted.

* * * * Cheap toolholders are cheap for a reason. *They are not as good.

For some reason this topic was busted into two threads. You responded
in one and then saw the other later.

I also have an AXA12N, but I guess I can trade of sell that for a
AXA12. :-)

* * * * Try the 12N and see how the inserts work for you. *If they work,
go for the 16N in your size (AXA). *If not, try the 12 and see how it
works for you.

I don't know if it was known that most of what I work with will be
plastic, brass and aluminum, with some light(finish) turning and
*threading* on S.S. rods).

* * * * Good Luck,
* * * * * * * * DoN.

--
*Email: * * | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
* * * * (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
* * * * * *--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

I've probably been concentrating too hard on the 16N because my goal
is more toward the "all-in-one" holders so a minimum of changing time
is needed.(And of course I want to get the most out of each
insert). :-)

There are so many tool holders that it can be overwhelming. I'd hate
to get one only to find that there was a better option.So I'm looking
at the "Universal tool holders" to see what is possible.
http://www.aloris.com/catalog/aloris_p10-11.pdf

(Of course H.S.S will still predominate on this lathe). :-)

Nevertheless, I obviously still have a lot of research ahead of me.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

"Searcher7" wrote in message
...
On May 12, 1:04 am, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-11, Searcher7 wrote:

On May 10, 11:28 pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

But would you recommend the AXA16 for a mini(7" x 14") lathe?

get the AXA1 and AXA2 holders and use brazed carbide tools from harbor
freight - you will get the same results and save $ on inserts - if you want
to save money, that's the way to go - rather than spend $160 on a tool
holder, buy a $30 holder and 200 brazed carbide tools

On 2010-05-15, Searcher7 wrote:
On May 12, 1:04*am, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-11, Searcher7 wrote:

On May 10, 11:28*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

* * * * [ ... ]

But would you recommend the AXA16 for a mini(7" x 14") lathe?

* * * * Instead of the 16N? *It does give you positive rake inserts,
which are easier to break, but are perhaps better than the general
negative rake inserts on a light duty lathe such as yours. *With the
proper inserts, in which a chipbreakr groove turns it into an effective
positive rake, you get most of the benefits of the 16N toolholder.

Except the most important one for me. The option of using all six
sides of an insert.

:-)

Somehow, I doubt that you will be wearing out that many points.

[ ... ]

* * * * Cheap toolholders are cheap for a reason. *They are not as good.

For some reason this topic was busted into two threads. You responded
in one and then saw the other later.

Yes.

I also have an AXA12N, but I guess I can trade of sell that for a
AXA12. :-)

* * * * Try the 12N and see how the inserts work for you. *If they work,
go for the 16N in your size (AXA). *If not, try the 12 and see how it
works for you.

I don't know if it was known that most of what I work with will be
plastic, brass and aluminum, with some light(finish) turning and
*threading* on S.S. rods).

Note that the 16N and the 16 are useless for threading. They
are for turning/facing only. You'll need some other form of holder for
threading.

[ ... ]

I've probably been concentrating too hard on the 16N because my goal
is more toward the "all-in-one" holders so a minimum of changing time
is needed.(And of course I want to get the most out of each
insert). :-)

It is *not* an all-in-one. It is a good general purpose holder
for roughing in both turning and facing -- but not what you want for a
really nice finish.

There are a lot of things which you will eventually want to do
which require other holders and inserts. You'll need boring bars and
holders for them. You'll need threading holders and inserts, or plain
holders and appropriately ground HSS bits. I think that with the lack
of rigidity of your machine, you will not be able to use insets for
threading SS -- and you don't mention *which* SS alloy. Some are pretty
easy to work (e.g. 416). Others will fight you all the way home (e.g.
304), but I think that any of them will require too much rigidity to use
carbide inserts with your lathe.

I tend to use an extended holder with my insert tooling for
threading.

There are so many tool holders that it can be overwhelming. I'd hate
to get one only to find that there was a better option.So I'm looking
at the "Universal tool holders" to see what is possible.
http://www.aloris.com/catalog/aloris_p10-11.pdf

Those are nice when you need an edge at a particular angle and
don't want to have to shift the toolpost from its proper
square-to-the-axis position. But for general use, you would spend so
much time adjusting the angle for different things that would be better
spent dropping another holder in place for the task.

The purpose of quick-change toolposts is to save you time, to
make you more productive -- *not* to save you money in buying tooling.

(Of course H.S.S will still predominate on this lathe). :-)

And it will probably be the only thing which you can use with
the SS above.

Nevertheless, I obviously still have a lot of research ahead of me.

Indeed so.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On May 15, 8:07*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-15, Searcher7 wrote:



On May 12, 1:04*am, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-11, Searcher7 wrote:

On May 10, 11:28*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

* * * * [ ... ]

But would you recommend the AXA16 for a mini(7" x 14") lathe?

* * * * Instead of the 16N? *It does give you positive rake inserts,
which are easier to break, but are perhaps better than the general
negative rake inserts on a light duty lathe such as yours. *With the
proper inserts, in which a chipbreakr groove turns it into an effective
positive rake, you get most of the benefits of the 16N toolholder.

Except the most important one for me. The option of using all six
sides of an insert.

* * * * :-)

* * * * Somehow, I doubt that you will be wearing out that many points.

* * * * [ ... ]

* * * * Cheap toolholders are cheap for a reason. *They are not as good.

For some reason this topic was busted into two threads. You responded
in one and then saw the other later.

* * * * Yes.

I also have an AXA12N, but I guess I can trade of sell that for a
AXA12. :-)

* * * * Try the 12N and see how the inserts work for you. *If they work,
go for the 16N in your size (AXA). *If not, try the 12 and see how it
works for you.

I don't know if it was known that most of what I work with will be
plastic, brass and aluminum, with some light(finish) turning and
*threading* on S.S. rods).

* * * * Note that the 16N and the 16 are useless for threading. *They
are for turning/facing only. *You'll need some other form of holder for
threading.

Yup. I do have the basic tool holders, but they are the cheap ones.
http://www.shars.com/products/view/1...Wedge_Type_111

I have some tooling for this package, but have to dig them out and
check what they are. I do have some boring bars.(Indexable ones also).

I've probably been concentrating too hard on the 16N because my goal
is more toward the "all-in-one" holders so a minimum of changing time
is needed.(And of course I want to get the most out of each
insert). :-)

* * * * It is *not* an all-in-one. *It is a good general purpose holder
for roughing in both turning and facing -- but not what you want for a
really nice finish.

My meaning was that I wanted to move *away* from the single operation
holder. (And that AXA22 looks really tempting). :-)

* * * * There are a lot of things which you will eventually want to do
which require other holders and inserts. *You'll need boring bars and
holders for them. *You'll need threading holders and inserts, or plain
holders and appropriately ground HSS bits. *I think that with the lack
of rigidity of your machine, you will not be able to use insets for
threading SS -- and you don't mention *which* SS alloy. *Some are pretty
easy to work (e.g. 416). *Others will fight you all the way home (e.g.
304), but I think that any of them will require too much rigidity to use
carbide inserts with your lathe.

As for stainless. 316 and 416. (I do have some Aquamet lying
around,but know nothing about it's machinability).

* * * * I tend to use an extended holder with my insert tooling for
threading.

There are so many tool holders that it can be overwhelming. I'd hate
to get one only to find that there was a better option.So I'm looking
at the "Universal tool holders" to see what is possible.
http://www.aloris.com/catalog/aloris_p10-11.pdf

* * * * Those are nice when you need an edge at a particular angle and
don't want to have to shift the toolpost from its proper
square-to-the-axis position. *But for general use, you would spend so
much time adjusting the angle for different things that would be better
spent dropping another holder in place for the task.

But I figured it would be more difficult to get precise angles when
using the normal H.S.S. holder/bits.

* * * * The purpose of quick-change toolposts is to save you time, to
make you more productive -- *not* to save you money in buying tooling.

Well, if saving money were the *priority* then I'd stick with only
H.S.S. :-)

(Of course H.S.S will still predominate on this lathe). :-)

* * * * And it will probably be the only thing which you can use with
the SS above.

O.D. threading those 3/8" to 1/2" dia S.S. rods are just a single
"extreme" job for this lathe. I was only thinking of insert tooling as
a *possibility* for when/if I couldn't get the H.S.S. bit angle right
for consistent threads. It basically comes down to what would be
easier and more efficient.

Nevertheless, I obviously still have a lot of research ahead of me.

* * * * Indeed so.

* * * * Enjoy,
* * * * * * * * DoN.

--
*Email: * * | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
* * * * (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
* * * * * *--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Thanks again.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On 2010-05-16, Searcher7 wrote:
On May 15, 8:07*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-15, Searcher7 wrote:

[ ... ]

I don't know if it was known that most of what I work with will be
plastic, brass and aluminum, with some light(finish) turning and
*threading* on S.S. rods).

* * * * Note that the 16N and the 16 are useless for threading. *They
are for turning/facing only. *You'll need some other form of holder for
threading.

Yup. I do have the basic tool holders, but they are the cheap ones.
http://www.shars.com/products/view/1...Wedge_Type_111

O.K. Without an AXA holder I can't verify whether the dovetail
fits the AXA or not. You do have at least one genuine AXA (14N was
it?), so you can tell quickly.

At least it is a wedge style toolpost, so it should deliver a
bit more rigidity.

But the main trick is to crank the compound back so the cutting
force is pretty much over the point around which the compound pivots.
The more you crank it out past that point, the more rigidity you throw
away.

I have some tooling for this package, but have to dig them out and
check what they are. I do have some boring bars.(Indexable ones also).

O.K.

I've probably been concentrating too hard on the 16N because my goal
is more toward the "all-in-one" holders so a minimum of changing time
is needed.(And of course I want to get the most out of each
insert). :-)

* * * * It is *not* an all-in-one. *It is a good general purpose holder
for roughing in both turning and facing -- but not what you want for a
really nice finish.

My meaning was that I wanted to move *away* from the single operation
holder. (And that AXA22 looks really tempting). :-)

It might be nice for getting uncommon edge angles (in 15 degree
increments IIRC, not *all* possible angles), but if I had one, I would
set it up for one specific useful angle and leave it that way. Whenever
you change the angle of the cartridge, you lose the benefit of the
indexable inserts and quick-change toolpost, and are back to having to
re-measure and set up for proper position.

* * * * There are a lot of things which you will eventually want to do
which require other holders and inserts. *You'll need boring bars and
holders for them. *You'll need threading holders and inserts, or plain
holders and appropriately ground HSS bits. *I think that with the lack
of rigidity of your machine, you will not be able to use insets for
threading SS -- and you don't mention *which* SS alloy. *Some are pretty
easy to work (e.g. 416). *Others will fight you all the way home (e.g.
304), but I think that any of them will require too much rigidity to use
carbide inserts with your lathe.

As for stainless. 316 and 416. (I do have some Aquamet lying
around,but know nothing about it's machinability).

Hmm ... 316 IIRC is one of the fairly nasty ones, but it is very
nice for rust resistance -- if you properly passivate it after turning
it. Anywhere that it touches steel (e.g. the chuck jaws) will be a
place where rust will start. And I don't think that you can handle the
passivating chemicals in an apartment building.

And -- with 316, you are probably in one of the the serious
work-hardening alloys. If you don't have the rigidity and power to keep
it cutting, as soon as the tool starts to skate on the surface, it will
harden the material so it will be *very* difficult to re-start the cut.

* * * * I tend to use an extended holder with my insert tooling for
threading.

There are so many tool holders that it can be overwhelming. I'd hate
to get one only to find that there was a better option.So I'm looking
at the "Universal tool holders" to see what is possible.
http://www.aloris.com/catalog/aloris_p10-11.pdf

* * * * Those are nice when you need an edge at a particular angle and
don't want to have to shift the toolpost from its proper
square-to-the-axis position. *But for general use, you would spend so
much time adjusting the angle for different things that would be better
spent dropping another holder in place for the task.

But I figured it would be more difficult to get precise angles when
using the normal H.S.S. holder/bits.

How are you going to get a precise angle which does not fall on
the standard multiples of the detents of the cartridge? Re-checking the
PDF file which you pointed to, it moves in 15 degree increments.

If you want to *cut* a specific angle, you set the compound to
that angle and feed in along that angle. These could be some help in
that (fitting where you need to go), as long as you don't need an angle
below 60 degrees (the angle of a triangular insert). For narrower
angles, you'll probably need one of the diamond shaped inserts. One
common size has a 55 degree angle (not much better than the 60 degree
triangular). Another is a much sharper angle, but I would have to look
it up to see what it was.

Having lots of HSS bits on hand, and a bench grinder will allow
you to make tools to fit what you want to do. Bear in mind that your
lathe will not have enough rigidity or power to handle form tools under
most conditions.

* * * * The purpose of quick-change toolposts is to save you time, to
make you more productive -- *not* to save you money in buying tooling.

Well, if saving money were the *priority* then I'd stick with only
H.S.S. :-)

:-)

(Of course H.S.S will still predominate on this lathe). :-)

* * * * And it will probably be the only thing which you can use with
the SS above.

O.D. threading those 3/8" to 1/2" dia S.S. rods are just a single
"extreme" job for this lathe.

They will be "extreme" all right -- especially the 316.

How long a thread do you need to make? If it is any longer than
about four times the diameter (e.g. 1.5" for 3/8" diameter) you will
need to support the other end with a live center (which may get in the
way of the threading), and if it is more than about double that, you
will also need a traveling steady rest to keep it from bowing away from
the tool in the middle of the length. (Do you have a traveling steady
(also called a "follower") for your lathe?)

I was only thinking of insert tooling as
a *possibility* for when/if I couldn't get the H.S.S. bit angle right
for consistent threads. It basically comes down to what would be
easier and more efficient.

The angle will be right for the insert threading tools, but
unless your rigidity is greater than I expect, you may wind up breaking
lots of inserts. (And there are no positive rake threading inserts, so
three corners is all that you get per insert. :-)

Threading plastic should be fine. Threading a free machining
mild steel (e.g. 12L14) should go fairly well if you don't have too
coarse a thread. (Your main trouble with those small machines will be
getting the machine to go slow enough to let you disenage the threading
feed quickly enough as you approach the end of the thread.)

However -- threading Stainless steel is going to be tricky with
your machine. I've threaded 416 SS without problems. But I'm not at
all sure what would happen if I tried 316 SS. I don't have any, so it
does not matter at the moment.

What do you *need* to thread SS for anyway? I thought that you
were mostly talking about making parts for video games.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On May 17, 12:04*am, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-16, Searcher7 wrote:

On May 15, 8:07*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-15, Searcher7 wrote:

* * * * [ ... ]

I don't know if it was known that most of what I work with will be
plastic, brass and aluminum, with some light(finish) turning and
*threading* on S.S. rods).

* * * * Note that the 16N and the 16 are useless for threading.. *They
are for turning/facing only. *You'll need some other form of holder for
threading.

Yup. I do have the basic tool holders, but they are the cheap ones.
http://www.shars.com/products/view/1...ol_Post_Set_We...

* * * * O.K. *Without an AXA holder I can't verify whether the dovetail
fits the AXA or not. *You do have at least one genuine AXA (14N was
it?), so you can tell quickly.

AXA 12N. http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/

I have it in front of me as I type this. It slid down on the toolpost
about a half inch without use of tools, so I guess it fits.

* * * * At least it is a wedge style toolpost, so it should deliver a
bit more rigidity.

* * * * But the main trick is to crank the compound back so the cutting
force is pretty much over the point around which the compound pivots.
The more you crank it out past that point, the more rigidity you throw
away.

I'm assuming that the diameter of the work piece will determine
placement.

I have some tooling for this package, but have to dig them out and
check what they are. I do have some boring bars.(Indexable ones also).

* * * * O.K.

I've probably been concentrating too hard on the 16N because my goal
is more toward the "all-in-one" holders so a minimum of changing time
is needed.(And of course I want to get the most out of each
insert). :-)

* * * * It is *not* an all-in-one. *It is a good general purpose holder
for roughing in both turning and facing -- but not what you want for a
really nice finish.

My meaning was that I wanted to move *away* from the single operation
holder. (And that AXA22 looks really tempting). :-)

* * * * It might be nice for getting uncommon edge angles (in 15 degree
increments IIRC, not *all* possible angles), but if I had one, I would
set it up for one specific useful angle and leave it that way. *Whenever
you change the angle of the cartridge, you lose the benefit of the
indexable inserts and quick-change toolpost, and are back to having to
re-measure and set up for proper position.

But what if you need a consistent chamfer angle between multiple work
pieces? Wouldn't something like the AXA #22 be better than the
conventional H.S.S. bit? The idea is like you said to set it up at the
proper angle and leave it.

* * * * There are a lot of things which you will eventually want to do
which require other holders and inserts. *You'll need boring bars and
holders for them. *You'll need threading holders and inserts, or plain
holders and appropriately ground HSS bits. *I think that with the lack
of rigidity of your machine, you will not be able to use insets for
threading SS -- and you don't mention *which* SS alloy. *Some are pretty
easy to work (e.g. 416). *Others will fight you all the way home (e.g.
304), but I think that any of them will require too much rigidity to use
carbide inserts with your lathe.

As for stainless. 316 and 416. (I do have some Aquamet lying
around,but know nothing about it's machinability).

* * * * Hmm ... 316 IIRC is one of the fairly nasty ones, but it is very
nice for rust resistance -- if you properly passivate it after turning
it. *Anywhere that it touches steel (e.g. the chuck jaws) will be a
place where rust will start. *And I don't think that you can handle the
passivating chemicals in an apartment building.

Yeah. That is way out of my territory.

* * * * And -- with 316, you are probably in one of the the serious
work-hardening alloys. *If you don't have the rigidity and power to keep
it cutting, as soon as the tool starts to skate on the surface, it will
harden the material so it will be *very* difficult to re-start the cut.

That is why I'd need to get the correct diameters to begin with. It's
the threading of the S.S. that might be difficult.

* * * * I tend to use an extended holder with my insert tooling for
threading.

There are so many tool holders that it can be overwhelming. I'd hate
to get one only to find that there was a better option.So I'm looking
at the "Universal tool holders" to see what is possible.
http://www.aloris.com/catalog/aloris_p10-11.pdf

* * * * Those are nice when you need an edge at a particular angle and
don't want to have to shift the toolpost from its proper
square-to-the-axis position. *But for general use, you would spend so
much time adjusting the angle for different things that would be better
spent dropping another holder in place for the task.

But I figured it would be more difficult to get precise angles when
using the normal H.S.S. holder/bits.

* * * * How are you going to get a precise angle which does not fall on
the standard multiples of the detents of the cartridge? *Re-checking the
PDF file which you pointed to, it moves in 15 degree increments.

I'm not looking for angles in between what can be gotten with this
tool. My meaning involved getting the *exact* same angle between work
pieces.

* * * * If you want to *cut* a specific angle, you set the compound to
that angle and feed in along that angle. *These could be some help in
that (fitting where you need to go), as long as you don't need an angle
below 60 degrees (the angle of a triangular insert). *For narrower
angles, you'll probably need one of the diamond shaped inserts. *One
common size has a 55 degree angle (not much better than the 60 degree
triangular). *Another is a much sharper angle, but I would have to look
it up to see what it was.

I might need to do some chamfering, so chamfering angle consistency
from one piece to the next will be important.

* * * * Having lots of HSS bits on hand, and a bench grinder will allow
you to make tools to fit what you want to do. *Bear in mind that your
lathe will not have enough rigidity or power to handle form tools under
most conditions.

So I guess that turning the end of that S.S. rod with a ball turner
is out. :-)

Speaking of a bench grinder. I have a Ryobi 6" Thin Line Bench Grinder.
(BGH615 120V AC, 60Hz, 2.1A 3600RPM/TR/MN, 1/2" Arbor), and have been
doing some research on aluminum oxide wheels to get for it. And think
I found a good supplier: http://www.abtec4abrasives.com/

* * * * The purpose of quick-change toolposts is to save you time, to
make you more productive -- *not* to save you money in buying tooling.

Well, if saving money were the *priority* then I'd stick with only
H.S.S. :-)

* * * * :-)

(Of course H.S.S will still predominate on this lathe). :-)

* * * * And it will probably be the only thing which you can use with
the SS above.

O.D. threading those 3/8" to 1/2" dia S.S. rods are just a single
"extreme" job for this lathe.

* * * * They will be "extreme" all right -- especially the 316.

I probably won't be trying to thread 316, which is only a possible
material. Metal(and sweaty hands) will probably come into contact with
it, so I'll probably use a different type if I can find something in
S.S.

* * * * How long a thread do you need to make? *If it is any longer than
about four times the diameter (e.g. 1.5" for 3/8" diameter) you will
need to support the other end with a live center (which may get in the
way of the threading), and if it is more than about double that, you
will also need a traveling steady rest to keep it from bowing away from
the tool in the middle of the length. *(Do you have a traveling steady
(also called a "follower") for your lathe?)

The threads will only be 1/4' to 1/2" in. Though some future projects
will involve much longer and coarser threads on mild steel rods.

Yes I do have a steady and a follower rest. Both of which I want to
modifying to ball bearings, so as not to mark up the work.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I was only thinking of insert tooling as
a *possibility* for when/if I couldn't get the H.S.S. bit angle right
for consistent threads. It basically comes down to what would be
easier and more efficient.

* * * * The angle will be right for the insert threading tools, but
unless your rigidity is greater than I expect, you may wind up breaking
lots of inserts. *(And there are no positive rake threading inserts, so
three corners is all that you get per insert. :-)

So I guess that even in mild steel threading would be difficult.

* * * * Threading plastic should be fine. *Threading a free machining
mild steel (e.g. 12L14) should go fairly well if you don't have too
coarse a thread. *(Your main trouble with those small machines will be
getting the machine to go slow enough to let you disenage the threading
feed quickly enough as you approach the end of the thread.)

And I was about to start a thread on a spindle crank mod. :-)

(But I do have a bench block and taps).

* * * * However -- threading Stainless steel is going to be tricky with
your machine. *I've threaded 416 SS without problems. *But I'm not at
all sure what would happen if I tried 316 SS. *I don't have any, so it
does not matter at the moment.

I think that Aquamet might be a form of 316, but I don't know of it's
work properties. (It might have been a propeller shaft of something
similar). But smoothing it up will be all I need to do anyway.

* * * * What do you *need* to thread SS for anyway? *I thought that you
were mostly talking about making parts for video games.

Oh, that was the all stainless steel ball-top joystick shaft
project. :-)

* * * * Good Luck,
* * * * * * * * DoN.

--
*Email: * * | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
* * * * (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
* * * * * *--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On 2010-05-17, Searcher7 wrote:
On May 17, 12:04*am, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-16, Searcher7 wrote:

[ ... ]

Yup. I do have the basic tool holders, but they are the cheap ones.
http://www.shars.com/products/view/1...ol_Post_Set_We...

* * * * O.K. *Without an AXA holder I can't verify whether the dovetail
fits the AXA or not. *You do have at least one genuine AXA (14N was
it?), so you can tell quickly.

AXA 12N. http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/


O.K.

I have it in front of me as I type this. It slid down on the toolpost
about a half inch without use of tools, so I guess it fits.

Assuming that the locking lever is in the released position,
it should slide all the way on with no difficulty and certainly no need
of tools. If it only goes on a half inch, then it is likely to not be a
proper fit -- unless your lever is closer to the locked position.

* * * * At least it is a wedge style toolpost, so it should deliver a
bit more rigidity.

* * * * But the main trick is to crank the compound back so the cutting
force is pretty much over the point around which the compound pivots.
The more you crank it out past that point, the more rigidity you throw
away.

I'm assuming that the diameter of the work piece will determine
placement.

Actually -- that is handled by the cross-slide leadscrew. The
compound is usually only needed for feeding at an angle, and the most
common use (other than chamfering) is to feed in for multiple pass
threading, with the compound set at 29-1/2 degrees (for a standard 60
degree thread) to lightly skim the right-hand side as it does most of
the serious cutting on the left-hand side.

[ ... ]

My meaning was that I wanted to move *away* from the single operation
holder. (And that AXA22 looks really tempting). :-)

* * * * It might be nice for getting uncommon edge angles (in 15 degree
increments IIRC, not *all* possible angles), but if I had one, I would
set it up for one specific useful angle and leave it that way. *Whenever
you change the angle of the cartridge, you lose the benefit of the
indexable inserts and quick-change toolpost, and are back to having to
re-measure and set up for proper position.

But what if you need a consistent chamfer angle between multiple work
pieces? Wouldn't something like the AXA #22 be better than the
conventional H.S.S. bit? The idea is like you said to set it up at the
proper angle and leave it.

Unless you need a specific angle (say it is called out in the
drawings for the part) what you can do is to simply have a tool which
uses the same inserts you have for the 16N (or 12N) mounted on shanks
which have it point first, so it provides an angle of 30 degrees on
either side. If you have two of these, mount one in a #1 holder in the
turning position, and another in the facing position, and you can do
either 30 degree or 60 degree chamfering by you choice. (Your cheap
equivalents for the 16 would also do for that if you wanted a single
holder, but they would not use the same inserts which you already have.

* * * * There are a lot of things which you will eventually want to do
which require other holders and inserts. *You'll need boring bars and
holders for them. *You'll need threading holders and inserts, or plain
holders and appropriately ground HSS bits. *I think that with the lack
of rigidity of your machine, you will not be able to use insets for
threading SS -- and you don't mention *which* SS alloy. *Some are pretty
easy to work (e.g. 416). *Others will fight you all the way home (e.g.
304), but I think that any of them will require too much rigidity to use
carbide inserts with your lathe.

As for stainless. 316 and 416. (I do have some Aquamet lying
around,but know nothing about it's machinability).

* * * * Hmm ... 316 IIRC is one of the fairly nasty ones, but it is very
nice for rust resistance -- if you properly passivate it after turning
it. *Anywhere that it touches steel (e.g. the chuck jaws) will be a
place where rust will start. *And I don't think that you can handle the
passivating chemicals in an apartment building.

Yeah. That is way out of my territory.

Certainly in a New York apartment building. :-)

* * * * And -- with 316, you are probably in one of the the serious
work-hardening alloys. *If you don't have the rigidity and power to keep
it cutting, as soon as the tool starts to skate on the surface, it will
harden the material so it will be *very* difficult to re-start the cut.

That is why I'd need to get the correct diameters to begin with. It's
the threading of the S.S. that might be difficult.

And that will be difficult enough with 316 SS.

* * * * I tend to use an extended holder with my insert tooling for
threading.

There are so many tool holders that it can be overwhelming. I'd hate
to get one only to find that there was a better option.So I'm looking
at the "Universal tool holders" to see what is possible.
http://www.aloris.com/catalog/aloris_p10-11.pdf

* * * * Those are nice when you need an edge at a particular angle and
don't want to have to shift the toolpost from its proper
square-to-the-axis position. *But for general use, you would spend so
much time adjusting the angle for different things that would be better
spent dropping another holder in place for the task.

But I figured it would be more difficult to get precise angles when
using the normal H.S.S. holder/bits.

* * * * How are you going to get a precise angle which does not fall on
the standard multiples of the detents of the cartridge? *Re-checking the
PDF file which you pointed to, it moves in 15 degree increments.

I'm not looking for angles in between what can be gotten with this
tool. My meaning involved getting the *exact* same angle between work
pieces.

In which case, you don't need to have an angle which can be
changed -- just the extra straight-ahead shanks (for the same inserts)
and a plain #1 holder.

* * * * If you want to *cut* a specific angle, you set the compound to
that angle and feed in along that angle. *These could be some help in
that (fitting where you need to go), as long as you don't need an angle
below 60 degrees (the angle of a triangular insert). *For narrower
angles, you'll probably need one of the diamond shaped inserts. *One
common size has a 55 degree angle (not much better than the 60 degree
triangular). *Another is a much sharper angle, but I would have to look
it up to see what it was.

I might need to do some chamfering, so chamfering angle consistency
from one piece to the next will be important.

As long as you can accept either 30 degree or 60 degree -- use
what I suggested above. If you want 45 degree, then the adjustable
angle insert may be the way to go.

* * * * Having lots of HSS bits on hand, and a bench grinder will allow
you to make tools to fit what you want to do. *Bear in mind that your
lathe will not have enough rigidity or power to handle form tools under
most conditions.

So I guess that turning the end of that S.S. rod with a ball turner
is out. :-)

It depends on what you mean by a "ball turner". :-)

If you mean a tool ground to a specific female radius, it will
be a killer.

However, if you mean the kind with a tool pivoted on an axis
corresponding to the center of the workpiece, and with a single-point
cutter, you can do it with that.

The trick is to not take of material from too wide an area at
one time. A narrow point is what you need.

Speaking of a bench grinder. I have a Ryobi 6" Thin Line Bench Grinder.
(BGH615 120V AC, 60Hz, 2.1A 3600RPM/TR/MN, 1/2" Arbor), and have been
doing some research on aluminum oxide wheels to get for it. And think
I found a good supplier: http://www.abtec4abrasives.com/

In the UK? Shipping may be a killer. And are you seeing the
price in UK Pounds and mentally treating it as US dollars? Look up the
exchange ratio -- and take into account the shipping costs across the
Atlantic.

[ ... ]

O.D. threading those 3/8" to 1/2" dia S.S. rods are just a single
"extreme" job for this lathe.

* * * * They will be "extreme" all right -- especially the 316.

I probably won't be trying to thread 316, which is only a possible
material. Metal(and sweaty hands) will probably come into contact with
it, so I'll probably use a different type if I can find something in
S.S.

416 is not ast stainless, but is easier to machine.

316 was the material used to make the Nikor developing tanks
back in the 1960s and 1970s.

They were spun from sheet stainless, and resistant to attack
from any of the photo chemicals.

* * * * How long a thread do you need to make? *If it is any longer than
about four times the diameter (e.g. 1.5" for 3/8" diameter) you will
need to support the other end with a live center (which may get in the
way of the threading), and if it is more than about double that, you
will also need a traveling steady rest to keep it from bowing away from
the tool in the middle of the length. *(Do you have a traveling steady
(also called a "follower") for your lathe?)

The threads will only be 1/4' to 1/2" in. Though some future projects
will involve much longer and coarser threads on mild steel rods.

O.K. Learn to thread on 12L14 first, and you will then know
that you can do it and what it feels like, and only have to worry about
how much more difficult 316 SS is. :-)

Yes I do have a steady and a follower rest. Both of which I want to
modifying to ball bearings, so as not to mark up the work.

Hmm ... open to debate. With ball bearings, chips tend to get
trapped between the hardened roller and workpiece surface, producing
interesting dents.

The standard non-rotating pushers tend to just push the chips
aside. A good bronze is the preferred material for such pushers.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I was only thinking of insert tooling as
a *possibility* for when/if I couldn't get the H.S.S. bit angle right
for consistent threads. It basically comes down to what would be
easier and more efficient.

* * * * The angle will be right for the insert threading tools, but
unless your rigidity is greater than I expect, you may wind up breaking
lots of inserts. *(And there are no positive rake threading inserts, so
three corners is all that you get per insert. :-)

So I guess that even in mild steel threading would be difficult.

Depends on how deep a thread. I think that you can do 12L14 to
20 TPI. 28 TPI or finer would be easier.

As for setting the angle, get a fishtail rule. :-)

* * * * Threading plastic should be fine. *Threading a free machining
mild steel (e.g. 12L14) should go fairly well if you don't have too
coarse a thread. *(Your main trouble with those small machines will be
getting the machine to go slow enough to let you disenage the threading
feed quickly enough as you approach the end of the thread.)

And I was about to start a thread on a spindle crank mod. :-)

O.K. Not something which I have any experience with, because
the Clausing goes slow enough to be no problem.

(But I do have a bench block and taps).

Good for threading holes, but not rods.

And if you are going to try to use a die on SS, you will need
some way to grip the rod without marring it. 316 SS, even with a good
choice of thread cutting lubricant, will generate serious forces.

* * * * However -- threading Stainless steel is going to be tricky with
your machine. *I've threaded 416 SS without problems. *But I'm not at
all sure what would happen if I tried 316 SS. *I don't have any, so it
does not matter at the moment.

I think that Aquamet might be a form of 316, but I don't know of it's
work properties. (It might have been a propeller shaft of something
similar). But smoothing it up will be all I need to do anyway.

Well ... you'll find out how it machines, anyway. :-)

* * * * What do you *need* to thread SS for anyway? *I thought that you
were mostly talking about making parts for video games.

Oh, that was the all stainless steel ball-top joystick shaft
project. :-)

O.K. Turn a sort step the minor diameter of the thread to help
start the die straight and concentric. If it is too long, plan to turn
it off when you have the threads properly done.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On May 17, 9:34*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-17, Searcher7 wrote:

On May 17, 12:04*am, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-16, Searcher7 wrote:

* * * * [ ... ]

Yup. I do have the basic tool holders, but they are the cheap ones.
http://www.shars.com/products/view/1...ol_Post_Set_We....

* * * * O.K. *Without an AXA holder I can't verify whether the dovetail
fits the AXA or not. *You do have at least one genuine AXA (14N was
it?), so you can tell quickly.

AXA 12N.http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/

* * * * O.K.

I have it in front of me as I type this. It slid down on the toolpost
about a half inch without use of tools, so I guess it fits.

* * * * Assuming that the locking lever is in the released position,
it should slide all the way on with no difficulty and certainly no need
of tools. *If it only goes on a half inch, then it is likely to not be a
proper fit -- unless your lever is closer to the locked position.

I think I'll e-mail Shars about this. I added a couple of pics with
the tool holder as far down on the post as I can get it. (Without
using a hammer). :-)

It's probably nothing, but If you look at the second pic there is a
screw that isn't *complete* screwed in flush against the bottom.

* * * * At least it is a wedge style toolpost, so it should deliver a
bit more rigidity.

* * * * But the main trick is to crank the compound back so the cutting
force is pretty much over the point around which the compound pivots.
The more you crank it out past that point, the more rigidity you throw
away.

I'm assuming that the diameter of the work piece will determine
placement.

* * * * Actually -- that is handled by the cross-slide leadscrew. *The
compound is usually only needed for feeding at an angle, and the most
common use (other than chamfering) is to feed in for multiple pass
threading, with the compound set at 29-1/2 degrees (for a standard 60
degree thread) to lightly skim the right-hand side as it does most of
the serious cutting on the left-hand side.

* * * * [ ... ]

My meaning was that I wanted to move *away* from the single operation
holder. (And that AXA22 looks really tempting). :-)

* * * * It might be nice for getting uncommon edge angles (in 15 degree
increments IIRC, not *all* possible angles), but if I had one, I would
set it up for one specific useful angle and leave it that way. *Whenever
you change the angle of the cartridge, you lose the benefit of the
indexable inserts and quick-change toolpost, and are back to having to
re-measure and set up for proper position.

But what if you need a consistent chamfer angle between multiple work
pieces? Wouldn't something like the AXA #22 be better than the
conventional H.S.S. bit? The idea is like you said to set it up at the
proper angle and leave it.

* * * * Unless you need a specific angle (say it is called out in the
drawings for the part) what you can do is to simply have a tool which
uses the same inserts you have for the 16N (or 12N) mounted on shanks
which have it point first, so it provides an angle of 30 degrees on
either side. *If you have two of these, mount one in a #1 holder in the
turning position, and another in the facing position, and you can do
either 30 degree or 60 degree chamfering by you choice. *(Your cheap
equivalents for the 16 would also do for that if you wanted a single
holder, but they would not use the same inserts which you already have.

* * * * There are a lot of things which you will eventually want to do
which require other holders and inserts. *You'll need boring bars and
holders for them. *You'll need threading holders and inserts, or plain
holders and appropriately ground HSS bits. *I think that with the lack
of rigidity of your machine, you will not be able to use insets for
threading SS -- and you don't mention *which* SS alloy. *Some are pretty
easy to work (e.g. 416). *Others will fight you all the way home (e.g.
304), but I think that any of them will require too much rigidity to use
carbide inserts with your lathe.

As for stainless. 316 and 416. (I do have some Aquamet lying
around,but know nothing about it's machinability).

* * * * Hmm ... 316 IIRC is one of the fairly nasty ones, but it is very
nice for rust resistance -- if you properly passivate it after turning
it. *Anywhere that it touches steel (e.g. the chuck jaws) will be a
place where rust will start. *And I don't think that you can handle the
passivating chemicals in an apartment building.

Yeah. That is way out of my territory.

* * * * Certainly in a New York apartment building. :-)

* * * * And -- with 316, you are probably in one of the the serious
work-hardening alloys. *If you don't have the rigidity and power to keep
it cutting, as soon as the tool starts to skate on the surface, it will
harden the material so it will be *very* difficult to re-start the cut..

That is why I'd need to get the correct diameters to begin with. It's
the threading of the S.S. that might be difficult.

* * * * And that will be difficult enough with 316 SS.

* * * * I tend to use an extended holder with my insert tooling for
threading.

There are so many tool holders that it can be overwhelming. I'd hate
to get one only to find that there was a better option.So I'm looking
at the "Universal tool holders" to see what is possible.
http://www.aloris.com/catalog/aloris_p10-11.pdf

* * * * Those are nice when you need an edge at a particular angle and
don't want to have to shift the toolpost from its proper
square-to-the-axis position. *But for general use, you would spend so
much time adjusting the angle for different things that would be better
spent dropping another holder in place for the task.

But I figured it would be more difficult to get precise angles when
using the normal H.S.S. holder/bits.

* * * * How are you going to get a precise angle which does not fall on
the standard multiples of the detents of the cartridge? *Re-checking the
PDF file which you pointed to, it moves in 15 degree increments.

I'm not looking for angles in between what can be gotten with this
tool. My meaning involved getting the *exact* same angle between work
pieces.

* * * * In which case, you don't need to have an angle which can be
changed -- just the extra straight-ahead shanks (for the same inserts)
and a plain #1 holder.

* * * * If you want to *cut* a specific angle, you set the compound to
that angle and feed in along that angle. *These could be some help in
that (fitting where you need to go), as long as you don't need an angle
below 60 degrees (the angle of a triangular insert). *For narrower
angles, you'll probably need one of the diamond shaped inserts. *One
common size has a 55 degree angle (not much better than the 60 degree
triangular). *Another is a much sharper angle, but I would have to look
it up to see what it was.

I might need to do some chamfering, so chamfering angle consistency
from one piece to the next will be important.

* * * * As long as you can accept either 30 degree or 60 degree -- use
what I suggested above. *If you want 45 degree, then the adjustable
angle insert may be the way to go.

45 degrees is exactly what I was thinking. :-)

* * * * Having lots of HSS bits on hand, and a bench grinder will allow
you to make tools to fit what you want to do. *Bear in mind that your
lathe will not have enough rigidity or power to handle form tools under
most conditions.

So I guess that turning the end of that S.S. rod *with a ball turner
is out. :-)

* * * * It depends on what you mean by a "ball turner". :-)

* * * * If you mean a tool ground to a specific female radius, it will
be a killer.

* * * * However, if you mean the kind with a tool pivoted on an axis
corresponding to the center of the workpiece, and with a single-point
cutter, you can do it with that.

* * * * The trick is to not take of material from too wide an area at
one time. *A narrow point is what you need.

So I guess that is more in the grinding than the angle.

Speaking of a bench grinder. I have a Ryobi 6" Thin Line Bench Grinder.
(BGH615 120V AC, 60Hz, 2.1A 3600RPM/TR/MN, 1/2" Arbor), and have been
doing some research on aluminum oxide wheels to get for it. *And think
I found a good supplier:http://www.abtec4abrasives.com/

* * * * In the UK? *Shipping may be a killer. *And are you seeing the
price in UK Pounds and mentally treating it as US dollars? *Look up the
exchange ratio -- and take into account the shipping costs across the
Atlantic.

Actually I was thinking in terms of the buying experience of another
who raved about their service and the wheels performance when he got
them.

* * * * [ ... ]

O.D. threading those 3/8" to 1/2" dia S.S. rods are just a single
"extreme" job for this lathe.

* * * * They will be "extreme" all right -- especially the 316..

I probably won't be trying to thread 316, which is only a possible
material. Metal(and sweaty hands) will probably come into contact with
it, so I'll probably use a different type if I can find something in
S.S.

* * * * 416 is not ast stainless, but is easier to machine.

So can I assume this is what you'd use if you were making a one piece
ball-top joystick out of stainless steel?

* * * * 316 was the material used to make the Nikor developing tanks
back in the 1960s and 1970s.

* * * * They were spun from sheet stainless, and resistant to attack
from any of the photo chemicals.

* * * * How long a thread do you need to make? *If it is any longer than
about four times the diameter (e.g. 1.5" for 3/8" diameter) you will
need to support the other end with a live center (which may get in the
way of the threading), and if it is more than about double that, you
will also need a traveling steady rest to keep it from bowing away from
the tool in the middle of the length. *(Do you have a traveling steady
(also called a "follower") for your lathe?)

The threads will only be 1/4' to 1/2" in. Though some future projects
will involve much longer and coarser threads on mild steel rods.

* * * * O.K. *Learn to thread on 12L14 first, and you will then know
that you can do it and what it feels like, and only have to worry about
how much more difficult 316 SS is. :-)

Is 12L14 good for something like a lead screw?

Yes I do have a steady and a follower rest. Both of which I want to
modifying to ball bearings, so as not to mark up the work.

* * * * Hmm ... open to debate. *With ball bearings, chips tend to get
trapped between the hardened roller and workpiece surface, producing
interesting dents.

* * * * The standard non-rotating pushers tend to just push the chips
aside. *A good bronze is the preferred material for such pushers.

Thanks. I didn't know that. So I'll leave the rests as they are.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I was only thinking of insert tooling as
a *possibility* for when/if I couldn't get the H.S.S. bit angle right
for consistent threads. It basically comes down to what would be
easier and more efficient.

* * * * The angle will be right for the insert threading tools, but
unless your rigidity is greater than I expect, you may wind up breaking
lots of inserts. *(And there are no positive rake threading inserts, so
three corners is all that you get per insert. :-)

So I guess that even in mild steel threading would be difficult.

* * * * Depends on how deep a thread. *I think that you can do 12L14 to
20 TPI. *28 TPI or finer would be easier.

Thanks. Standard threads are all I can see myself doing in the near
future.

* * * * As for setting the angle, get a fishtail rule. :-)

???

* * * * Threading plastic should be fine. *Threading a free machining
mild steel (e.g. 12L14) should go fairly well if you don't have too
coarse a thread. *(Your main trouble with those small machines will be
getting the machine to go slow enough to let you disenage the threading
feed quickly enough as you approach the end of the thread.)

And I was about to start a thread on a spindle crank mod. :-)

* * * * O.K. *Not something which I have any experience with, because
the Clausing goes slow enough to be no problem.

(But I do have a bench block and taps).

* * * * Good for threading holes, but not rods.

Yes. I wouldn't try I.D. threading on my lathe or bother with O.D.
threading by hand. (O.D. is all I can see doing in the near future
anyway).

* * * * And if you are going to try to use a die on SS, you will need
some way to grip the rod without marring it. *316 SS, even with a good
choice of thread cutting lubricant, will generate serious forces.

Yes. I'm about to pick up some way and spindle lube via eBay, and will
be looking for a good cutting/tapping fluid.

220604490776

And though I'd never get it I thought this one was funny: 220606254543

* * * * However -- threading Stainless steel is going to be tricky with
your machine. *I've threaded 416 SS without problems. *But I'm not at
all sure what would happen if I tried 316 SS. *I don't have any, so it
does not matter at the moment.

I think that Aquamet might be a form of 316, but I don't know of it's
work properties. (It might have been a propeller shaft of something
similar). But smoothing it up will be all I need to do anyway.

* * * * Well ... you'll find out how it machines, anyway. :-)

* * * * What do you *need* to thread SS for anyway? *I thought that you
were mostly talking about making parts for video games.

Oh, that was the all stainless steel ball-top joystick shaft
project. :-)

* * * * O.K. *Turn a sort step the minor diameter of the thread to help
start the die straight and concentric. *If it is too long, plan to turn
it off when you have the threads properly done.

* * * * Good Luck,
* * * * * * * * DoN.

--
*Email: * * | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
* * * * (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
* * * * * *--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Thanks a lot. :-)

Darren Harris
Staten Island,New York.

On Mon, 17 May 2010 13:11:33 -0700 (PDT), Searcher7
wrote:


I think that Aquamet might be a form of 316, but I don't know of it's
work properties. (It might have been a propeller shaft of something
similar). But smoothing it up will be all I need to do anyway.

Aquamet is a family of proprietary alloys made by Armco, not a single
material. The most common, Aquamet 22, makes machining 316 SS seem fun
by comparison. Back when I was working with the stuff I had a huge
turret lathe available to turn it, which made the job bearable, but
not enjoyable. It's incredibly tough which makes it prone to making
extremely long, tough chips.

--
Ned Simmons

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 May 2010 13:11:33 -0700 (PDT), Searcher7
wrote:


I think that Aquamet might be a form of 316, but I don't know of it's
work properties. (It might have been a propeller shaft of something
similar). But smoothing it up will be all I need to do anyway.

Aquamet is a family of proprietary alloys made by Armco, not a single
material. The most common, Aquamet 22, makes machining 316 SS seem fun
by comparison. Back when I was working with the stuff I had a huge
turret lathe available to turn it, which made the job bearable, but
not enjoyable. It's incredibly tough which makes it prone to making
extremely long, tough chips.

--
Ned Simmons

Nasty stuff. It is sort of a supercharged 316, but the high manganese
content (4 - 6%), combined with higher chromium and nickel, makes it a
bugger to machine.

Not all Aquamet is austenitic. You have to be sure of which grade you're
talking about.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2010-05-18, Searcher7 wrote:
On May 17, 9:34*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-17, Searcher7 wrote:

[ ... ]

I have it in front of me as I type this. It slid down on the toolpost
about a half inch without use of tools, so I guess it fits.

* * * * Assuming that the locking lever is in the released position,
it should slide all the way on with no difficulty and certainly no need
of tools. *If it only goes on a half inch, then it is likely to not be a
proper fit -- unless your lever is closer to the locked position.

Looking at your photos, I don't *see* the locking lever
installed on the toolpost. The ring which surrounds the nut which holds
it down should have a threaded hole in it. (I think that I see hints of
it at about 10:00 o'clock, which is certainly the wrong place for it.)
It should range between about 2:00 o'clock and perhaps 8:00 o'clock. It
actually locks around 6:00 o'clock, and frees by 3:00 o'clock.

Anyway -- there should be a threaded rod which screws into this
ring, and a handle (perhaps a ball knob) on the other end. Moving the
lever counter-clockwise should release the holder, and moving it
clockwise should lock the holder *firmly* in place. It does this by
moving the shiny parts of the dovetails up and down, thus changing the
effective width of the dovetail.

I think I'll e-mail Shars about this. I added a couple of pics with
the tool holder as far down on the post as I can get it. (Without
using a hammer). :-)

It should simply drop on by gravity as long as the lever is in
the unlocked position.

It's probably nothing, but If you look at the second pic there is a
screw that isn't *complete* screwed in flush against the bottom.

The second picture shows the Aloris tool holder tilted, which
would keep it from sliding on as it should. Try straightening it up and
see whether it will slide on. It might do so. Looking at the position
of the visible wedge (the part with the screw) it should be far enough
up so the Aloris tool holder will slide on freely.

Oh yes -- another point. You need to use a solvent (WD-40 will
do) and paper towels to clean off the Cosmolene from the dovetails and
the wedge. Those are there to prevent rust in storage, and are too
sticky to work in normal use. Clean it off with the solvent, then
lubricate the surfaces with Vactra No. 2 way lube and see how things go.

As for that screw -- I'm not sure what function it serves,
though it could set a limit to how far down the wedge can go. There is
certainly nothing like that on my Phase-II series-200 clone of the
Aloris BXA toolpost.

Is there a similar screw in the bottom end of the other wedge?

I see that you don't have it on your lathe yet, either.

And -- you might need to take it part-way apart and re-start the
wedges at a different rotation of the lever so it is not hitting the
chuck when it is in a locked position. Start by removing the big nut at
the top and pulling out the rod with the (as yet unmilled) T-nut blank.

Then, you can rotate the collar CCW with the lever (which should
be somewhere with the toolpost packaging) until the wedges slide out the
bottom of the post. Then try re-assembling it with different starting
positions of the lever until you find one where the lever travels from
about 2:00 (with the wedges near the top) to about 8:00 (with the wedges
near the bottom). Hopefully you can find such a position and they have
not simply drilled the hole for the lever in the wrong place.

[ ... ]

[ ... ]

I might need to do some chamfering, so chamfering angle consistency
from one piece to the next will be important.

* * * * As long as you can accept either 30 degree or 60 degree -- use
what I suggested above. *If you want 45 degree, then the adjustable
angle insert may be the way to go.

45 degrees is exactly what I was thinking. :-)

If you need only that angle, get a shank for the inserts which
will hold them at the 45 degree angle, and put it in a #1 tool holder.

[ ... ]

* * * * It depends on what you mean by a "ball turner". :-)

* * * * If you mean a tool ground to a specific female radius, it will
be a killer.

* * * * However, if you mean the kind with a tool pivoted on an axis
corresponding to the center of the workpiece, and with a single-point
cutter, you can do it with that.

* * * * The trick is to not take of material from too wide an area at
one time. *A narrow point is what you need.

So I guess that is more in the grinding than the angle.

Yes -- or the purchasing of inserts with the smallest radius
available. (Typically there are three point radii -- and you want the
smallest with that lathe. Larger radii make it possible to get a nicer
finish with a faster feed -- but not if your lathe does not have the
rigidity to handle them. :-) (Actually -- you can probably get away with
larger radii with plastics, but certainly not with SS.

Speaking of a bench grinder. I have a Ryobi 6" Thin Line Bench Grinder.
(BGH615 120V AC, 60Hz, 2.1A 3600RPM/TR/MN, 1/2" Arbor), and have been
doing some research on aluminum oxide wheels to get for it. *And think
I found a good supplier:http://www.abtec4abrasives.com/

* * * * In the UK? *Shipping may be a killer. *And are you seeing the
price in UK Pounds and mentally treating it as US dollars? *Look up the
exchange ratio -- and take into account the shipping costs across the
Atlantic.

Actually I was thinking in terms of the buying experience of another
who raved about their service and the wheels performance when he got
them.

O.K. Make sure you know what kind of wheels you need. I'm not
a good source for that information.

[ ... ]

I probably won't be trying to thread 316, which is only a possible
material. Metal(and sweaty hands) will probably come into contact with
it, so I'll probably use a different type if I can find something in
S.S.

* * * * 416 is not ast stainless, but is easier to machine.

I meant to say "not *as* stainless" above. :-)

So can I assume this is what you'd use if you were making a one piece
ball-top joystick out of stainless steel?

Actually -- I probably would not try to make one. How big is
the ball? That will determine the diameter of the steel stock you will
need, since you are making it one piece. And what I would probably try
there is to cut it to length (or a little longer), chuck it by the end
where the ball will be, and use a live center to support the other end,
turn down until I got the needed shank diameter, then reverse it, and
chuck it up as close to the ball as I could and still clear the radius
cutting tool.

Then -- you will probably need cloth wheels and various
compounds to produce the nice shiny finish you want (a different cloth
wheel is needed for each compound) and a *lot* of time to produce the
polish.

[ ... ]

The threads will only be 1/4' to 1/2" in. Though some future projects
will involve much longer and coarser threads on mild steel rods.

* * * * O.K. *Learn to thread on 12L14 first, and you will then know
that you can do it and what it feels like, and only have to worry about
how much more difficult 316 SS is. :-)

Is 12L14 good for something like a lead screw?

Yes -- assuming that it is running in a bronze bearing and does
not have to resist bending.

[ ... ]

So I guess that even in mild steel threading would be difficult.

* * * * Depends on how deep a thread. *I think that you can do 12L14 to
20 TPI. *28 TPI or finer would be easier.

Thanks. Standard threads are all I can see myself doing in the near
future.

20 and 28 TPI are both standard threads on 1/4" shafts. They
would be a bit too fine if the shaft is 1/2" diameter.

But for leadscrews -- you don't want *standard* V threads, but
rather Acme threads.

* * * * As for setting the angle, get a fishtail rule. :-)

???

A short steel rule with the proper angle for threading tools.
It looks like this (view with a fixed pitch font to avoid distortion,
Courier is a good choice):

|\ /|
| \/ |
| Typically about 1" wide, and 3" long.
| |
\ /
\/

The male angle at the bottom and the female angles at the top
and the sides (there are actually two side ones of different sizes) are
used both for gauging the angles of the threading tools when you grind
them from HSS blanks, and for making sure that the tool is presented at
the proper angle to the workpiece.

[ ... ]

(But I do have a bench block and taps).

* * * * Good for threading holes, but not rods.

Yes. I wouldn't try I.D. threading on my lathe or bother with O.D.
threading by hand. (O.D. is all I can see doing in the near future
anyway).

O.K.

* * * * And if you are going to try to use a die on SS, you will need
some way to grip the rod without marring it. *316 SS, even with a good
choice of thread cutting lubricant, will generate serious forces.

Yes. I'm about to pick up some way and spindle lube via eBay, and will
be looking for a good cutting/tapping fluid.

220604490776

O.K. Those sound pretty good -- for small quantities. I order
5-gallon lots of Vactra No. 2, and 1-gallon of different spindle oils
for different machines.

And though I'd never get it I thought this one was funny: 220606254543

The hydraulic oil and a light spindle oil are similar enough so
that might work. But not Waylube or cutting oil in the same product.
In particular, a cutting oil contains additives which weaken the metal
bonds making it easier to cut, and are also frequently high film
strength lubes (something like Rigid pipe threading oil for example.)

* * * * However -- threading Stainless steel is going to be tricky with
your machine. *I've threaded 416 SS without problems. *But I'm not at
all sure what would happen if I tried 316 SS. *I don't have any, so it
does not matter at the moment.

I think that Aquamet might be a form of 316, but I don't know of it's
work properties. (It might have been a propeller shaft of something
similar). But smoothing it up will be all I need to do anyway.

* * * * Well ... you'll find out how it machines, anyway. :-)

Based on what someone else posted, it will be a real bear to
machine -- depending on just which alloy it happens to be.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On May 18, 5:59*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-18, Searcher7 wrote:

On May 17, 9:34*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-17, Searcher7 wrote:

* * * * [ ... ]

I have it in front of me as I type this. It slid down on the toolpost
about a half inch without use of tools, so I guess it fits.

* * * * Assuming that the locking lever is in the released position,
it should slide all the way on with no difficulty and certainly no need
of tools. *If it only goes on a half inch, then it is likely to not be a
proper fit -- unless your lever is closer to the locked position.

* * * * Looking at your photos, I don't *see* the locking lever
installed on the toolpost. *The ring which surrounds the nut which holds
it down should have a threaded hole in it. *(I think that I see hints of
it at about 10:00 o'clock, which is certainly the wrong place for it.)
It should range between about 2:00 o'clock and perhaps 8:00 o'clock. *It
actually locks around 6:00 o'clock, and frees by 3:00 o'clock.

* * * * Anyway -- there should be a threaded rod which screws into this
ring, and a handle (perhaps a ball knob) on the other end. *Moving the
lever counter-clockwise should release the holder, and moving it
clockwise should lock the holder *firmly* in place. *It does this by
moving the shiny parts of the dovetails up and down, thus changing the
effective width of the dovetail.

I think I'll e-mail Shars about this. I added a couple of pics with
the tool holder as far down on the post as I can get it. (Without
using a hammer). :-)

* * * * It should simply drop on by gravity as long as the lever is in
the unlocked position.

It's probably nothing, but If you look at the second pic there is a
screw that isn't *complete* screwed in flush against the bottom.

* * * * The second picture shows the Aloris tool holder tilted, which
would keep it from sliding on as it should. *Try straightening it up and
see whether it will slide on. It might do so. *Looking at the position
of the visible wedge (the part with the screw) it should be far enough
up so the Aloris tool holder will slide on freely.

I played with it some more and the toolholder finally started to drop
low enough.(As far as the stop on top of the toolholder would allow).

* * * * Oh yes -- another point. *You need to use a solvent (WD-40 will
do) and paper towels to clean off the Cosmolene from the dovetails and
the wedge. *Those are there to prevent rust in storage, and are too
sticky to work in normal use. *Clean it off with the solvent, then
lubricate the surfaces with Vactra No. 2 way lube and see how things go.

* * * * As for that screw -- I'm not sure what function it serves,
though it could set a limit to how far down the wedge can go. *There is
certainly nothing like that on my Phase-II series-200 clone of the
Aloris BXA toolpost.

* * * * Is there a similar screw in the bottom end of the other wedge?

Nope. Just that one.

* * * * I see that you don't have it on your lathe yet, either.

* * * * And -- you might need to take it part-way apart and re-start the
wedges at a different rotation of the lever so it is not hitting the
chuck when it is in a locked position. *Start by removing the big nut at
the top and pulling out the rod with the (as yet unmilled) T-nut blank.

* * * * Then, you can rotate the collar CCW with the lever (which should
be somewhere with the toolpost packaging) until the wedges slide out the
bottom of the post. *Then try re-assembling it with different starting
positions of the lever until you find one where the lever travels from
about 2:00 (with the wedges near the top) to about 8:00 (with the wedges
near the bottom). *Hopefully you can find such a position and they have
not simply drilled the hole for the lever in the wrong place.

Ok, I think that perhaps you might not have seen if clearly, so I
partially unwrapped the threaded rod and screwed it into the toolpost.
This should show that the orientation is correct. (The toolholder is
located about the middle of the toolpost).

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/

But the bar only turns about an inch between unlocked and locked. (The
difference in position of the bar between those first two pics show
how far I can turn it when the toolholder is on the post).

* * * * [ ... ]

* * * * [ ... ]

I might need to do some chamfering, so chamfering angle consistency
from one piece to the next will be important.

* * * * As long as you can accept either 30 degree or 60 degree -- use
what I suggested above. *If you want 45 degree, then the adjustable
angle insert may be the way to go.

45 degrees is exactly what I was thinking. :-)

* * * * If you need only that angle, get a shank for the inserts which
will hold them at the 45 degree angle, and put it in a #1 tool holder.

Ok, so I guess there is still no reason to get the AXA 22. (And it
looks like I'll just have to change the toolholder every time I have
to do a different operation). :-(

* * * * [ ... ]

* * * * It depends on what you mean by a "ball turner". :-)

* * * * If you mean a tool ground to a specific female radius, it will
be a killer.

* * * * However, if you mean the kind with a tool pivoted on an axis
corresponding to the center of the workpiece, and with a single-point
cutter, you can do it with that.

* * * * The trick is to not take of material from too wide an area at
one time. *A narrow point is what you need.

Thanks.

So I guess that is more in the grinding than the angle.

* * * * Yes -- or the purchasing of inserts with the smallest radius
available. *(Typically there are three point radii -- and you want the
smallest with that lathe. *Larger radii make it possible to get a nicer
finish with a faster feed -- but not if your lathe does not have the
rigidity to handle them. :-) (Actually -- you can probably get away with
larger radii with plastics, but certainly not with SS.

Speaking of a bench grinder. I have a Ryobi 6" Thin Line Bench Grinder.
(BGH615 120V AC, 60Hz, 2.1A 3600RPM/TR/MN, 1/2" Arbor), and have been
doing some research on aluminum oxide wheels to get for it. *And think
I found a good supplier:http://www.abtec4abrasives.com/

* * * * In the UK? *Shipping may be a killer. *And are you seeing the
price in UK Pounds and mentally treating it as US dollars? *Look up the
exchange ratio -- and take into account the shipping costs across the
Atlantic.

Actually I was thinking in terms of the buying experience of another
who raved about their service and the wheels performance when he got
them.

* * * * O.K. *Make sure you know what kind of wheels you need. *I'm not
a good source for that information.

* * * * [ ... ]

I probably won't be trying to thread 316, which is only a possible
material. Metal(and sweaty hands) will probably come into contact with
it, so I'll probably use a different type if I can find something in
S.S.

* * * * 416 is not ast stainless, but is easier to machine.

* * * * I meant to say "not *as* stainless" above. :-)

It's really the stainless steel look I'm after. But like I said sweaty
hands may cause problems over time.

So can I assume this is what you'd use if you were making a one piece
ball-top joystick out of stainless steel?

* * * * Actually -- I probably would not try to make one. *How big is
the ball? *That will determine the diameter of the steel stock you will
need, since you are making it one piece. *And what I would probably try
there is to cut it to length (or a little longer), chuck it by the end
where the ball will be, and use a live center to support the other end,
turn down until I got the needed shank diameter, then reverse it, and
chuck it up as close to the ball as I could and still clear the radius
cutting tool.

Thanks. The ball-top will be 1-1/2" in diameter, and the shaft will be
3/8" in diameter. The total length will be 5-1/2".

* * * * Then -- you will probably need cloth wheels and various
compounds to produce the nice shiny finish you want (a different cloth
wheel is needed for each compound) and a *lot* of time to produce the
polish.

* * * * [ ... ]

The threads will only be 1/4' to 1/2" in. Though some future projects
will involve much longer and coarser threads on mild steel rods.

* * * * O.K. *Learn to thread on 12L14 first, and you will then know
that you can do it and what it feels like, and only have to worry about
how much more difficult 316 SS is. :-)

Is 12L14 good for something like a lead screw?

* * * * Yes -- assuming that it is running in a bronze bearing and does
not have to resist bending.

* * * * [ ... ]

So I guess that even in mild steel threading would be difficult.

* * * * Depends on how deep a thread. *I think that you can do 12L14 to
20 TPI. *28 TPI or finer would be easier.

Thanks. Standard threads are all I can see myself doing in the near
future.

* * * * 20 and 28 TPI are both standard threads on 1/4" shafts. *They
would be a bit too fine if the shaft is 1/2" diameter.

* * * * But for leadscrews -- you don't want *standard* V threads, but
rather Acme threads.

* * * * As for setting the angle, get a fishtail rule. :-)

???

* * * * A short steel rule with the proper angle for threading tools.
It looks like this (view with a fixed pitch font to avoid distortion,
Courier is a good choice):

* * * * *|\ */|
* * * * *| \/ |
* * * * * * *| * Typically about 1" wide, and 3" long.
* * * * *| * *|
* * * * * \ */
* * * * * *\/

* * * * The male angle at the bottom and the female angles at the top
and the sides (there are actually two side ones of different sizes) are
used both for gauging the angles of the threading tools when you grind
them from HSS blanks, and for making sure that the tool is presented at
the proper angle to the workpiece.

Ok. Center Gauge. :-) I thought that's what you were referring to.

* * * * [ ... ]

(But I do have a bench block and taps).

* * * * Good for threading holes, but not rods.

Yes. I wouldn't try I.D. threading on my lathe or bother with O.D.
threading by hand. (O.D. is all I can see doing in the near future
anyway).

* * * * O.K.

* * * * And if you are going to try to use a die on SS, you will need
some way to grip the rod without marring it. *316 SS, even with a good
choice of thread cutting lubricant, will generate serious forces.

Yes. I'm about to pick up some way and spindle lube via eBay, and will
be looking for a good cutting/tapping fluid.

220604490776

* * * * O.K. *Those sound pretty good -- for small quantities. *I order
5-gallon lots of Vactra No. 2, and 1-gallon of different spindle oils
for different machines.

And though I'd never get it I thought this one was funny: 220606254543

* * * * The hydraulic oil and a light spindle oil are similar enough so
that might work. *But not Waylube or cutting oil in the same product.
In particular, a cutting oil contains additives which weaken the metal
bonds making it easier to cut, and are also frequently high film
strength lubes (something like Rigid pipe threading oil for example.)

Perhaps I should order larger(gallon) amounts. I'm just trying to keep
things simple for both lathe and mill/drill. Oil for the ways. Oil for
the spindles. cutting/tapping fluid. The lead screw(lithium grease?).
General rust preventative. And something for when I *attempt* to turn
S.S. :-)

BTW.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PMAKA=422-2416
And it's free shipping this month with the code.

* * * * However -- threading Stainless steel is going to be tricky with
your machine. *I've threaded 416 SS without problems. *But I'm not at
all sure what would happen if I tried 316 SS. *I don't have any, so it
does not matter at the moment.

I think that Aquamet might be a form of 316, but I don't know of it's
work properties. (It might have been a propeller shaft of something
similar). But smoothing it up will be all I need to do anyway.

* * * * Well ... you'll find out how it machines, anyway. :-)

* * * * Based on what someone else posted, it will be a real bear to
machine -- depending on just which alloy it happens to be.

Then I guess for all intents and purposes it is 316...

* * * * Good Luck,
* * * * * * * * DoN.

--
*Email: * * | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
* * * * (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
* * * * * *--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Thanks again.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On Tue, 18 May 2010 21:21:32 -0700, Searcher7 wrote:
....
It's really the stainless steel look I'm after. But like I said sweaty
hands may cause problems over time.

So can I assume this is what you'd use if you were making a one piece
ball-top joystick out of stainless steel?

Â* Â* Â* Â* Actually -- I probably would not try to make one. Â*How big is
the ball? Â*That will determine the diameter of the steel stock you will
need, since you are making it one piece. Â*[...]

Thanks. The ball-top will be 1-1/2" in diameter, and the shaft will be
3/8" in diameter. The total length will be 5-1/2".

Have you tried out a joystick like this before? A sphere of SS
that size weighs about half a pound, which seems sort of heavy
to have out at the end of the stick.

House-recycling stores near you probably have SS doorknobs like
http://www.doorlockshop.com/products/mediaBase.aspx?groupId=617766
which, being hollow, would be much lighter. You then could epoxy a
3/8" stainless bolt into it, avoiding the need to thread SS. If
you find doorknobs cheap enough, you could use them for throwaway
proof-of-concept testing.

If you really want the weight, perhaps look for some bright and
shiny 1.5" ball bearings; drill a hole (see previous r.c.m threads
about holes in ball bearings), turn the shaft of a bolt for a good
fit, and press or loctite it into place.

Â* Â* Â* Â* Then -- you will probably need cloth wheels and various
compounds to produce the nice shiny finish you want (a different cloth
wheel is needed for each compound) and a *lot* of time to produce the
polish.

--
jiw

A very good explanation of bench grinding wheel abrasives is included in the
excellent writeup by Harold Vordos regarding HSS lathe tool grinding.
http://twoloonscoffee.com/download/

Nearly every lathe owner could benefit from reading the information in the
writeup, but especially those that have small lathes and/or those that are
considering carbide cutting tools as their best choice.

Much more info is available in Harold's, and others' comments on the Chaski
metalworking forum
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/

A chart of abrasive wheel markings and their meaning can be found he
http://shopswarf.orconhosting.net.nz/grindwheel.html

--
WB
..........


"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...

(bench grinder wheel abrasives)

O.K. Make sure you know what kind of wheels you need. I'm not
a good source for that information.

I'd be interested in hearing about how many hours it takes to turn a 1-1/2"
stainless steel ball (or any steel) on a mini lathe.

--
WB
..........


"Searcher7" wrote in message
...

Thanks. The ball-top will be 1-1/2" in diameter, and the shaft will be
3/8" in diameter. The total length will be 5-1/2".

It appears that it is like my AXA - and has two places 90 degrees from each
other that a tool can be mounted on the post.
You might have it 90 degrees from what it should be or could be.

The turn of the handle is the slide of the wedge against the dovetail.

When I made one and left the tool holder in blacking chemical to long, it
etched the surface. (It was only 2 more days than it should have ... forgot).

The handle swung around and ended up. SO I mounted a plate in the throat of
the dovetail which held the post dovetail against the other - firmer fit.
Then a slightly longer rotation was needed for a tight and firm lock.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 5/18/2010 11:21 PM, Searcher7 wrote:
On May 18, 5:59 pm, "DoN. wrote:
On 2010-05-18, wrote:

On May 17, 9:34 pm, "DoN. wrote:
On 2010-05-17, wrote:

[ ... ]

I have it in front of me as I type this. It slid down on the toolpost
about a half inch without use of tools, so I guess it fits.

Assuming that the locking lever is in the released position,
it should slide all the way on with no difficulty and certainly no need
of tools. If it only goes on a half inch, then it is likely to not be a
proper fit -- unless your lever is closer to the locked position.

Looking at your photos, I don't *see* the locking lever
installed on the toolpost. The ring which surrounds the nut which holds
it down should have a threaded hole in it. (I think that I see hints of
it at about 10:00 o'clock, which is certainly the wrong place for it.)
It should range between about 2:00 o'clock and perhaps 8:00 o'clock. It
actually locks around 6:00 o'clock, and frees by 3:00 o'clock.

Anyway -- there should be a threaded rod which screws into this
ring, and a handle (perhaps a ball knob) on the other end. Moving the
lever counter-clockwise should release the holder, and moving it
clockwise should lock the holder *firmly* in place. It does this by
moving the shiny parts of the dovetails up and down, thus changing the
effective width of the dovetail.

I think I'll e-mail Shars about this. I added a couple of pics with
the tool holder as far down on the post as I can get it. (Without
using a hammer). :-)

It should simply drop on by gravity as long as the lever is in
the unlocked position.

It's probably nothing, but If you look at the second pic there is a
screw that isn't *complete* screwed in flush against the bottom.

The second picture shows the Aloris tool holder tilted, which
would keep it from sliding on as it should. Try straightening it up and
see whether it will slide on. It might do so. Looking at the position
of the visible wedge (the part with the screw) it should be far enough
up so the Aloris tool holder will slide on freely.

I played with it some more and the toolholder finally started to drop
low enough.(As far as the stop on top of the toolholder would allow).

Oh yes -- another point. You need to use a solvent (WD-40 will
do) and paper towels to clean off the Cosmolene from the dovetails and
the wedge. Those are there to prevent rust in storage, and are too
sticky to work in normal use. Clean it off with the solvent, then
lubricate the surfaces with Vactra No. 2 way lube and see how things go.

As for that screw -- I'm not sure what function it serves,
though it could set a limit to how far down the wedge can go. There is
certainly nothing like that on my Phase-II series-200 clone of the
Aloris BXA toolpost.

Is there a similar screw in the bottom end of the other wedge?

Nope. Just that one.

I see that you don't have it on your lathe yet, either.

And -- you might need to take it part-way apart and re-start the
wedges at a different rotation of the lever so it is not hitting the
chuck when it is in a locked position. Start by removing the big nut at
the top and pulling out the rod with the (as yet unmilled) T-nut blank.

Then, you can rotate the collar CCW with the lever (which should
be somewhere with the toolpost packaging) until the wedges slide out the
bottom of the post. Then try re-assembling it with different starting
positions of the lever until you find one where the lever travels from
about 2:00 (with the wedges near the top) to about 8:00 (with the wedges
near the bottom). Hopefully you can find such a position and they have
not simply drilled the hole for the lever in the wrong place.

Ok, I think that perhaps you might not have seen if clearly, so I
partially unwrapped the threaded rod and screwed it into the toolpost.
This should show that the orientation is correct. (The toolholder is
located about the middle of the toolpost).

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/

But the bar only turns about an inch between unlocked and locked. (The
difference in position of the bar between those first two pics show
how far I can turn it when the toolholder is on the post).

[ ... ]

[ ... ]

I might need to do some chamfering, so chamfering angle consistency
from one piece to the next will be important.

As long as you can accept either 30 degree or 60 degree -- use
what I suggested above. If you want 45 degree, then the adjustable
angle insert may be the way to go.

45 degrees is exactly what I was thinking. :-)

If you need only that angle, get a shank for the inserts which
will hold them at the 45 degree angle, and put it in a #1 tool holder.

Ok, so I guess there is still no reason to get the AXA 22. (And it
looks like I'll just have to change the toolholder every time I have
to do a different operation). :-(

[ ... ]

It depends on what you mean by a "ball turner". :-)

If you mean a tool ground to a specific female radius, it will
be a killer.

However, if you mean the kind with a tool pivoted on an axis
corresponding to the center of the workpiece, and with a single-point
cutter, you can do it with that.

The trick is to not take of material from too wide an area at
one time. A narrow point is what you need.

Thanks.

So I guess that is more in the grinding than the angle.

Yes -- or the purchasing of inserts with the smallest radius
available. (Typically there are three point radii -- and you want the
smallest with that lathe. Larger radii make it possible to get a nicer
finish with a faster feed -- but not if your lathe does not have the
rigidity to handle them. :-) (Actually -- you can probably get away with
larger radii with plastics, but certainly not with SS.

Speaking of a bench grinder. I have a Ryobi 6" Thin Line Bench Grinder.
(BGH615 120V AC, 60Hz, 2.1A 3600RPM/TR/MN, 1/2" Arbor), and have been
doing some research on aluminum oxide wheels to get for it. And think
I found a good supplier:http://www.abtec4abrasives.com/

In the UK? Shipping may be a killer. And are you seeing the
price in UK Pounds and mentally treating it as US dollars? Look up the
exchange ratio -- and take into account the shipping costs across the
Atlantic.

Actually I was thinking in terms of the buying experience of another
who raved about their service and the wheels performance when he got
them.

O.K. Make sure you know what kind of wheels you need. I'm not
a good source for that information.

[ ... ]

I probably won't be trying to thread 316, which is only a possible
material. Metal(and sweaty hands) will probably come into contact with
it, so I'll probably use a different type if I can find something in
S.S.

416 is not ast stainless, but is easier to machine.

I meant to say "not *as* stainless" above. :-)

It's really the stainless steel look I'm after. But like I said sweaty
hands may cause problems over time.

So can I assume this is what you'd use if you were making a one piece
ball-top joystick out of stainless steel?

Actually -- I probably would not try to make one. How big is
the ball? That will determine the diameter of the steel stock you will
need, since you are making it one piece. And what I would probably try
there is to cut it to length (or a little longer), chuck it by the end
where the ball will be, and use a live center to support the other end,
turn down until I got the needed shank diameter, then reverse it, and
chuck it up as close to the ball as I could and still clear the radius
cutting tool.

Thanks. The ball-top will be 1-1/2" in diameter, and the shaft will be
3/8" in diameter. The total length will be 5-1/2".

Then -- you will probably need cloth wheels and various
compounds to produce the nice shiny finish you want (a different cloth
wheel is needed for each compound) and a *lot* of time to produce the
polish.

[ ... ]

The threads will only be 1/4' to 1/2" in. Though some future projects
will involve much longer and coarser threads on mild steel rods.

O.K. Learn to thread on 12L14 first, and you will then know
that you can do it and what it feels like, and only have to worry about
how much more difficult 316 SS is. :-)

Is 12L14 good for something like a lead screw?

Yes -- assuming that it is running in a bronze bearing and does
not have to resist bending.

[ ... ]

So I guess that even in mild steel threading would be difficult.

Depends on how deep a thread. I think that you can do 12L14 to
20 TPI. 28 TPI or finer would be easier.

Thanks. Standard threads are all I can see myself doing in the near
future.

20 and 28 TPI are both standard threads on 1/4" shafts. They
would be a bit too fine if the shaft is 1/2" diameter.

But for leadscrews -- you don't want *standard* V threads, but
rather Acme threads.

As for setting the angle, get a fishtail rule. :-)

???

A short steel rule with the proper angle for threading tools.
It looks like this (view with a fixed pitch font to avoid distortion,
Courier is a good choice):

|\ /|
| \/ |
| Typically about 1" wide, and 3" long.
| |
\ /
\/

The male angle at the bottom and the female angles at the top
and the sides (there are actually two side ones of different sizes) are
used both for gauging the angles of the threading tools when you grind
them from HSS blanks, and for making sure that the tool is presented at
the proper angle to the workpiece.

Ok. Center Gauge. :-) I thought that's what you were referring to.

[ ... ]

(But I do have a bench block and taps).

Good for threading holes, but not rods.

Yes. I wouldn't try I.D. threading on my lathe or bother with O.D.
threading by hand. (O.D. is all I can see doing in the near future
anyway).

O.K.

And if you are going to try to use a die on SS, you will need
some way to grip the rod without marring it. 316 SS, even with a good
choice of thread cutting lubricant, will generate serious forces.

Yes. I'm about to pick up some way and spindle lube via eBay, and will
be looking for a good cutting/tapping fluid.

220604490776

O.K. Those sound pretty good -- for small quantities. I order
5-gallon lots of Vactra No. 2, and 1-gallon of different spindle oils
for different machines.

And though I'd never get it I thought this one was funny: 220606254543

The hydraulic oil and a light spindle oil are similar enough so
that might work. But not Waylube or cutting oil in the same product.
In particular, a cutting oil contains additives which weaken the metal
bonds making it easier to cut, and are also frequently high film
strength lubes (something like Rigid pipe threading oil for example.)

Perhaps I should order larger(gallon) amounts. I'm just trying to keep
things simple for both lathe and mill/drill. Oil for the ways. Oil for
the spindles. cutting/tapping fluid. The lead screw(lithium grease?).
General rust preventative. And something for when I *attempt* to turn
S.S. :-)

BTW.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PMAKA=422-2416
And it's free shipping this month with the code.

However -- threading Stainless steel is going to be tricky with
your machine. I've threaded 416 SS without problems. But I'm not at
all sure what would happen if I tried 316 SS. I don't have any, so it
does not matter at the moment.

I think that Aquamet might be a form of 316, but I don't know of it's
work properties. (It might have been a propeller shaft of something
similar). But smoothing it up will be all I need to do anyway.

Well ... you'll find out how it machines, anyway. :-)

Based on what someone else posted, it will be a real bear to
machine -- depending on just which alloy it happens to be.

Then I guess for all intents and purposes it is 316...

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
| Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Thanks again.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On 2010-05-19, Searcher7 wrote:
On May 18, 5:59*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

I played with it some more and the toolholder finally started to drop
low enough.(As far as the stop on top of the toolholder would allow).

Did you use WD-40 or kerosene or something similar to wash off
the Cosmolene on the dovetails? That will make things a lot more
difficult to move.

[ ... ]

* * * * As for that screw -- I'm not sure what function it serves,
though it could set a limit to how far down the wedge can go. *There is
certainly nothing like that on my Phase-II series-200 clone of the
Aloris BXA toolpost.

* * * * Is there a similar screw in the bottom end of the other wedge?

Nope. Just that one.

I wonder whether it simply got trapped there or whether it was
intended to be an adjustable travel stop.

[ ... ]

Ok, I think that perhaps you might not have seen if clearly, so I
partially unwrapped the threaded rod and screwed it into the toolpost.
This should show that the orientation is correct. (The toolholder is
located about the middle of the toolpost).

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/

O.K. That looks more reasonable. What I was seeing (once I
downloaded the first image and brightened it up a bit) was apparently
the reflection of the dovetail on the holder. And the angle of view had
the surface with the socket for the lever edge on, so it could not be
seen.

But the bar only turns about an inch between unlocked and locked. (The
difference in position of the bar between those first two pics show
how far I can turn it when the toolholder is on the post).

Does the tool holder lock firmly in that position?


And ... what about when the tool holder is not installed? If it
only swings that far then you might want to try removing the screw. It
really does not look as though it belongs there. Does the head of the
screw hit the plate from which you make the T-nut?

I guess that the first try is to tighten it into the wedge and
see how much travel you get.

But the tests for proper locking should not be done until the
Cosmolene has been cleaned off, because the thickness and stickiness of
the Cosmolene will change where the lever locks on a given holder.

[ ... ]

45 degrees is exactly what I was thinking. :-)

* * * * If you need only that angle, get a shank for the inserts which
will hold them at the 45 degree angle, and put it in a #1 tool holder.

Ok, so I guess there is still no reason to get the AXA 22.

You can still get the AXA-22 if you want. It will do the job
well, it is just more expensive than reasonable for just that purpose.

(And it
looks like I'll just have to change the toolholder every time I have
to do a different operation). :-(

That is what a quick-change toolholder is *for*. Once the
Cosmolene is cleaned up and the toolpost is mounted on the lathe, you
will find how quick and easy it is to change tools.

I typically go through three or four holders (including the
BXA-16N) on a simple project, and may go through eight on a more complex
project which includes rough and finish turning threading, knurling, and
beveling. (I use the 16N for rough turning, and move to a little very
sharp 1/2" shank carbide insert tool in a standard BXA-1 holder.) This
shank and insert set came with my Compact-5/CNC (a small benchtop CNC
lathe). The shanks are labeled Tizit, and I got quite a few bags of the
55 degree inserts from someone else here on the newsgroup many years
ago.

[ ... ]

I found a good supplier:http://www.abtec4abrasives.com/

* * * * In the UK? *Shipping may be a killer. *And are you seeing the
price in UK Pounds and mentally treating it as US dollars? *Look up the
exchange ratio -- and take into account the shipping costs across the
Atlantic.

Actually I was thinking in terms of the buying experience of another
who raved about their service and the wheels performance when he got
them.

* * * * O.K. *Make sure you know what kind of wheels you need. *I'm not
a good source for that information.

BTW Beware of cheap grinders. Many may look like they have a
fairly large motor, but in reality have a tiny underpowered motor
in a larger housing.

[ ... ]

* * * * 416 is not ast stainless, but is easier to machine.

* * * * I meant to say "not *as* stainless" above. :-)

It's really the stainless steel look I'm after. But like I said sweaty
hands may cause problems over time.

The *look* will probably require a lot of polishing after the
turning is done.

So can I assume this is what you'd use if you were making a one piece
ball-top joystick out of stainless steel?

* * * * Actually -- I probably would not try to make one. *How big is
the ball? *That will determine the diameter of the steel stock you will
need, since you are making it one piece. *And what I would probably try
there is to cut it to length (or a little longer), chuck it by the end
where the ball will be, and use a live center to support the other end,
turn down until I got the needed shank diameter, then reverse it, and
chuck it up as close to the ball as I could and still clear the radius
cutting tool.

Thanks. The ball-top will be 1-1/2" in diameter, and the shaft will be
3/8" in diameter. The total length will be 5-1/2".

O.K. 1-1/2" diameter round stock, and a *lot* of metal to
remove. It will be cheaper and easier to get 3/8" diameter round stock,
and pre drilled and tapped balls.

If you're worrying about someone unscrewing and stealing the
ball, get a heavy grade Loctite to secure the ball to the lever.

[ ... ]

* * * * As for setting the angle, get a fishtail rule. :-)

???

* * * * A short steel rule with the proper angle for threading tools.
It looks like this (view with a fixed pitch font to avoid distortion,
Courier is a good choice):

* * * * *|\ */|
* * * * *| \/ |
* * * * * * *| * Typically about 1" wide, and 3" long.
* * * * *| * *|
* * * * * \ */
* * * * * *\/

* * * * The male angle at the bottom and the female angles at the top
and the sides (there are actually two side ones of different sizes) are
used both for gauging the angles of the threading tools when you grind
them from HSS blanks, and for making sure that the tool is presented at
the proper angle to the workpiece.

Ok. Center Gauge. :-) I thought that's what you were referring to.

O.K. Fishtail rule is a common term for it.

[ ... ]

* * * * The hydraulic oil and a light spindle oil are similar enough so
that might work. *But not Waylube or cutting oil in the same product.
In particular, a cutting oil contains additives which weaken the metal
bonds making it easier to cut, and are also frequently high film
strength lubes (something like Rigid pipe threading oil for example.)

Perhaps I should order larger(gallon) amounts. I'm just trying to keep
things simple for both lathe and mill/drill. Oil for the ways. Oil for
the spindles. cutting/tapping fluid. The lead screw(lithium grease?).
General rust preventative. And something for when I *attempt* to turn
S.S. :-)

Normally, the leadscrew (at least on my Clausing lathe) uses the
same lube as the ways -- Vactra No. 2. It is sticky enough so it will
hold position nicely on the leadscrews.

BTW.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PMAKA=422-2416
And it's free shipping this month with the code.

O.K. I actually use one quart bottles with a squirt spout.
Same brand. Note that it generates a smell when in use -- especially if
you are running at high forces. It includes sulfur, and that with heat
becomes sulfur dioxide -- a nasty thing to breathe much of.

[ ... ]

I think that Aquamet might be a form of 316, but I don't know of it's
work properties. (It might have been a propeller shaft of something
similar). But smoothing it up will be all I need to do anyway.

* * * * Well ... you'll find out how it machines, anyway. :-)

* * * * Based on what someone else posted, it will be a real bear to
machine -- depending on just which alloy it happens to be.

Then I guess for all intents and purposes it is 316...

The 416 should do nicely -- if you wipe it off after a day's
play.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On May 20, 5:32*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-19, Searcher7 wrote:

On May 18, 5:59*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

* * * * [ ... ]

I played with it some more and the toolholder finally started to drop
low enough.(As far as the stop on top of the toolholder would allow).

* * * * Did you use WD-40 or kerosene or something similar to wash off
the Cosmolene on the dovetails? *That will make things a lot more
difficult to move.

I haven't done any cleaning yet.I figure I'll do that just before I
put it on the lathe compound.

* * * * As for that screw -- I'm not sure what function it serves,
though it could set a limit to how far down the wedge can go. *There is
certainly nothing like that on my Phase-II series-200 clone of the
Aloris BXA toolpost.

* * * * Is there a similar screw in the bottom end of the other wedge?

Nope. Just that one.

* * * * I wonder whether it simply got trapped there or whether it was
intended to be an adjustable travel stop.

I wouldn't be able to get a screw driver in there to find out. (But it
seems tight).

* * * * [ ... ]

Ok, I think that perhaps you might not have seen if clearly, so I
partially unwrapped the threaded rod and screwed it into the toolpost.
This should show that the orientation is correct. (The toolholder is
located about the middle of the toolpost).

http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/

* * * * O.K. *That looks more reasonable. *What I was seeing (once I
downloaded the first image and brightened it up a bit) was apparently
the reflection of the dovetail on the holder. *And the angle of view had
the surface with the socket for the lever edge on, so it could not be
seen.

But the bar only turns about an inch between unlocked and locked. (The
difference in position of the bar between those first two pics show
how far I can turn it when the toolholder is on the post).

* * * * Does the tool holder lock firmly in that position?

I can't budge it, so I assume it is locked.

* * * * And ... what about when the tool holder is not installed? *If it
only swings that far then you might want to try removing the screw. *It
really does not look as though it belongs there. *Does the head of the
screw hit the plate from which you make the T-nut?

When the holder is not on the toolpost the bar will swing a little
less than 180 degrees. The two extremes are shown in the two new pics.
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/

(That's the screw knob with the toolpost).

*** Also, I noticed that I cannot put the toolholder on the toolpost
when it is fully open because the bar is in the way at the full open
position.

Perhaps if I clean the toolholder will slide down when the bar is
*just short* of the full open position.(Not likely though).

I was able to get the #1 and #4 toolholders on that came with the
toolpost to fit on at both positions, but not the Aloris toolholder.

* * * * I guess that the first try is to tighten it into the wedge and
see how much travel you get.

* * * * But the tests for proper locking should not be done until the
Cosmolene has been cleaned off, because the thickness and stickiness of
the Cosmolene will change where the lever locks on a given holder.

* * * * [ ... ]

45 degrees is exactly what I was thinking. :-)

* * * * If you need only that angle, get a shank for the inserts which
will hold them at the 45 degree angle, and put it in a #1 tool holder.

Ok, so I guess there is still no reason to get the AXA 22.

* * * * You can still get the AXA-22 if you want. *It will do the job
well, it is just more expensive than reasonable for just that purpose.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *(And it
looks like I'll just have to change the toolholder every time I have
to do a different operation). :-(

* * * * That is what a quick-change toolholder is *for*. *Once the
Cosmolene is cleaned up and the toolpost is mounted on the lathe, you
will find how quick and easy it is to change tools.

Yes. Perhaps I'm concentrating too hard on trying to get the most
operations out of each holder. :-)

* * * * I typically go through three or four holders (including the
BXA-16N) on a simple project, and may go through eight on a more complex
project which includes rough and finish turning threading, knurling, and
beveling. *(I use the 16N for rough turning, and move to a little very
sharp 1/2" shank carbide insert tool in a standard BXA-1 holder.) *This
shank and insert set came with my Compact-5/CNC (a small benchtop CNC
lathe). *The shanks are labeled Tizit, and I got quite a few bags of the
55 degree inserts from someone else here on the newsgroup many years
ago.

* * * * [ ... ]

I found a good supplier:http://www.abtec4abrasives.com/

* * * * In the UK? *Shipping may be a killer. *And are you seeing the
price in UK Pounds and mentally treating it as US dollars? *Look up the
exchange ratio -- and take into account the shipping costs across the
Atlantic.

Actually I was thinking in terms of the buying experience of another
who raved about their service and the wheels performance when he got
them.

* * * * O.K. *Make sure you know what kind of wheels you need. *I'm not
a good source for that information.

BTW * * Beware of cheap grinders. *Many may look like they have a
* * * * fairly large motor, but in reality have a tiny underpowered motor
* * * * in a larger housing.

Most motors are probably over-rated either way, because the industry
is not really regulated, and horse power claims are false, perhaps
most of the time. (I was just reading about a class action suit that
was won as a result of something like this. https://lawnmowerclass.com/).

* * * * [ ... ]

* * * * 416 is not ast stainless, but is easier to machine.

* * * * I meant to say "not *as* stainless" above. :-)

It's really the stainless steel look I'm after. But like I said sweaty
hands may cause problems over time.

* * * * The *look* will probably require a lot of polishing after the
turning is done.

So can I assume this is what you'd use if you were making a one piece
ball-top joystick out of stainless steel?

* * * * Actually -- I probably would not try to make one. *How big is
the ball? *That will determine the diameter of the steel stock you will
need, since you are making it one piece. *And what I would probably try
there is to cut it to length (or a little longer), chuck it by the end
where the ball will be, and use a live center to support the other end,
turn down until I got the needed shank diameter, then reverse it, and
chuck it up as close to the ball as I could and still clear the radius
cutting tool.

Thanks. The ball-top will be 1-1/2" in diameter, and the shaft will be
3/8" in diameter. The total length will be 5-1/2".

* * * * O.K. *1-1/2" diameter round stock, and a *lot* of metal to
remove. *It will be cheaper and easier to get 3/8" diameter round stock,
and pre drilled and tapped balls.

* * * * If you're worrying about someone unscrewing and stealing the
ball, get a heavy grade Loctite to secure the ball to the lever.

I'd probably need something even more permanent. (Someone could
probably still heat up the ball to remove it).

* * * * [ ... ]



* * * * As for setting the angle, get a fishtail rule. :-)

???

* * * * A short steel rule with the proper angle for threading tools.
It looks like this (view with a fixed pitch font to avoid distortion,
Courier is a good choice):

* * * * *|\ */|
* * * * *| \/ |
* * * * * * *| * Typically about 1" wide, and 3" long..
* * * * *| * *|
* * * * * \ */
* * * * * *\/

* * * * The male angle at the bottom and the female angles at the top
and the sides (there are actually two side ones of different sizes) are
used both for gauging the angles of the threading tools when you grind
them from HSS blanks, and for making sure that the tool is presented at
the proper angle to the workpiece.

Ok. Center Gauge. :-) I thought that's what you were referring to.

* * * * O.K. *Fishtail rule is a common term for it.

* * * * [ ... ]

* * * * The hydraulic oil and a light spindle oil are similar enough so
that might work. *But not Waylube or cutting oil in the same product..
In particular, a cutting oil contains additives which weaken the metal
bonds making it easier to cut, and are also frequently high film
strength lubes (something like Rigid pipe threading oil for example.)

Perhaps I should order larger(gallon) amounts. I'm just trying to keep
things simple for both lathe and mill/drill. Oil for the ways. Oil for
the spindles. cutting/tapping fluid. The lead screw(lithium grease?).
General rust preventative. And something for when I *attempt* to turn
S.S. :-)

* * * * Normally, the leadscrew (at least on my Clausing lathe) uses the
same lube as the ways -- Vactra No. 2. *It is sticky enough so it will
hold position nicely on the leadscrews.

BTW.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...=7899909&PMAKA...
And it's free shipping this month with the code.

* * * * O.K. *I actually use one quart bottles with a squirt spout.
Same brand. *Note that it generates a smell when in use -- especially if
you are running at high forces. *It includes sulfur, and that with heat
becomes sulfur dioxide -- a nasty thing to breathe much of.

Thanks. So that's another item on my list. Now all I need is a tapping
fluid.

* * * * [ ... ]

I think that Aquamet might be a form of 316, but I don't know of it's
work properties. (It might have been a propeller shaft of something
similar). But smoothing it up will be all I need to do anyway.

* * * * Well ... you'll find out how it machines, anyway. :-)

* * * * Based on what someone else posted, it will be a real bear to
machine -- depending on just which alloy it happens to be.

Then I guess for all intents and purposes it is 316...

* * * * The 416 should do nicely -- if you wipe it off after a day's
play.

I'll need something more "maintenance free", so perhaps I should just
forget the stainless idea. For instance plastic injection for the ball-
top. ( just still have to figure out what is the best steel for the
shaft).

* * * * Good Luck,
* * * * * * * * DoN.

--
*Email: * * | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
* * * * (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
* * * * * *--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On 2010-05-21, Searcher7 wrote:
On May 20, 5:32*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-19, Searcher7 wrote:

On May 18, 5:59*pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

* * * * [ ... ]

I played with it some more and the toolholder finally started to drop
low enough.(As far as the stop on top of the toolholder would allow).

* * * * Did you use WD-40 or kerosene or something similar to wash off
the Cosmolene on the dovetails? *That will make things a lot more
difficult to move.

I haven't done any cleaning yet.I figure I'll do that just before I
put it on the lathe compound.

Until you clean off the Cosmolene, you will get strange values.

* * * * As for that screw -- I'm not sure what function it serves,
though it could set a limit to how far down the wedge can go. *There is
certainly nothing like that on my Phase-II series-200 clone of the
Aloris BXA toolpost.

* * * * Is there a similar screw in the bottom end of the other wedge?

Nope. Just that one.

* * * * I wonder whether it simply got trapped there or whether it was
intended to be an adjustable travel stop.

I wouldn't be able to get a screw driver in there to find out. (But it
seems tight).

Why not? All you need to do is to remove the big hex nut at the
top and pull out the bar with the T-nut blank at the bottom. You might
even be able to rotate the T-nut blank enough to give access with the
nut still on, but just loosened.

However, based on other photos that is probably not needed. You
get plenty of swing on the locking arm.

As long as the head of the screw does not hit the dovetail when
the tool holder is slid all the way down (adjust the height adjustment
nut to allow this) then you can ignore it.

[ ... ]

But the bar only turns about an inch between unlocked and locked. (The
difference in position of the bar between those first two pics show
how far I can turn it when the toolholder is on the post).

* * * * Does the tool holder lock firmly in that position?

I can't budge it, so I assume it is locked.

You can't really test that while the Cosmolene is still there.
It will cause it to appear to lock up well before it normally would
really lock up.

* * * * And ... what about when the tool holder is not installed? *If it
only swings that far then you might want to try removing the screw. *It
really does not look as though it belongs there. *Does the head of the
screw hit the plate from which you make the T-nut?

When the holder is not on the toolpost the bar will swing a little
less than 180 degrees. The two extremes are shown in the two new pics.
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/

O.K. That is plenty of swing.

(That's the screw knob with the toolpost).

*** Also, I noticed that I cannot put the toolholder on the toolpost
when it is fully open because the bar is in the way at the full open
position.

Perhaps if I clean the toolholder will slide down when the bar is
*just short* of the full open position.(Not likely though).

If you clean the dovetails, it is likely to make enough
of a difference. If it does not, then you perhaps need to disassemble
the holder and try to start the wedges back on at a different point in
the threads. It uses a multi-start thread to get enough vertical travel
from the limited lever rotation.

To take it apart:

1) Remove the hex nut at the top.

2) Withdraw the T-nut blank and vertical rod.

3) Rotate the lever to move the wedges downwards until
they come out the bottom.

4) Reposition the lever perhaps 30 degrees back towards
lock from the point at which the wedges came out.

5) Re-insert the wedges, and hold them pressed up while
you turn the lever to draw them in fully.

6) Check whether the lever has a more reasonable range.

7) If not, go back to 3 and repeat until you get the proper
lever position.

If you can't find a starting position for the threads which
gives a proper lever range, contact the vendor and see about a
replacement.

BTW -- the screw *may* be to keep it from coming apart unless
you remove the screw. It is not present in my Phase-II wedge style
toolpost.

Did you re-post the link to the image of the screw for the other
fellow who has the same brand of toolpost? (I may discover this later
in my reading through the newsgroup, but I don't know yet. :-)

I was able to get the #1 and #4 toolholders on that came with the
toolpost to fit on at both positions, but not the Aloris toolholder.

Hmm ... And where must the locking lever be set to allow you to
slide them on?

Note that with most holders, the locking lever on mine locks up
with the lever pointing towards me (straight out from the lathe). It
will vary a little depending on the actual width of the dovetails in the
holders.

* * * * I guess that the first try is to tighten it into the wedge and
see how much travel you get.

Not needed -- you get plenty of travel.

[ ... ]

looks like I'll just have to change the toolholder every time I have
to do a different operation). :-(

* * * * That is what a quick-change toolholder is *for*. *Once the
Cosmolene is cleaned up and the toolpost is mounted on the lathe, you
will find how quick and easy it is to change tools.

Yes. Perhaps I'm concentrating too hard on trying to get the most
operations out of each holder. :-)

I think so. You want as many holders as needed to hold various
styles of cutters to allow you to do the job at hand. The absolute
*worst* thing to do is to have too few holders and have to change tools
between holders frequently -- also requiring re-setting the tool height
stop nut each time you do this.

It is not *too* bad if you make the changes just before a
project, so all the tools you need are present and adjusted at the start
of the project. But if you have to change between different tools in a
single holder in the middle of a project, you are slowing yourself down,
and increasing the chances of errors.

As I said below -- having multiple holders already set up
available allows you do do the multiple stages of a project much more
quickly and certainly.

* * * * I typically go through three or four holders (including the
BXA-16N) on a simple project, and may go through eight on a more complex
project which includes rough and finish turning threading, knurling, and
beveling. *(I use the 16N for rough turning, and move to a little very
sharp 1/2" shank carbide insert tool in a standard BXA-1 holder.) *This
shank and insert set came with my Compact-5/CNC (a small benchtop CNC
lathe). *The shanks are labeled Tizit, and I got quite a few bags of the
55 degree inserts from someone else here on the newsgroup many years
ago.

[ ... ]

BTW * * Beware of cheap grinders. *Many may look like they have a
* * * * fairly large motor, but in reality have a tiny underpowered motor
* * * * in a larger housing.

Most motors are probably over-rated either way, because the industry
is not really regulated, and horse power claims are false, perhaps
most of the time. (I was just reading about a class action suit that
was won as a result of something like this. https://lawnmowerclass.com/).

There is that one -- and the bogus "horsepower" ratings on air
compressors and shop vacs. An example is the shop vacs which used to be
labeled 7 Hp which plug into a standard 120 VAC outlet. Now, a bit of
calculation says that 7 Hp is 5,250 Watts, and on a 120 VAC outlet, that
would draw 43.75 A. Now most residential outlets are limited to 15A,
and heavy duty ones to 20 A -- so if it really developed the nameplate
horsepower, it would trip the breaker very quickly. :-)

Probably the best test is to try lifting several grinder brands
of the same size. The heavier the grinder the better it will likely be.
(If it has too little real horsepower, it will slow down too much as you
start grinding.)

FWIW -- I have an ancient 6" grinder which belonged to my
father, and which he got in trade for an anchor. I have no idea how old
it really is, but I do know that it looked old back around 1957. :-)

I also picked up an 8" by JET which had been sitting in the
window of a builder's hardware store for many years. It has plenty of
horsepower, weight, very good bearings (it keeps running for a long time
after I switch off the power), and very well balanced. I have no idea
whether more recent ones are as good.

Baldor is the primary name for quality in a bench grinder, and a
used one will be more affordable than new.

[ ... ]

Thanks. The ball-top will be 1-1/2" in diameter, and the shaft will be
3/8" in diameter. The total length will be 5-1/2".

* * * * O.K. *1-1/2" diameter round stock, and a *lot* of metal to
remove. *It will be cheaper and easier to get 3/8" diameter round stock,
and pre drilled and tapped balls.

* * * * If you're worrying about someone unscrewing and stealing the
ball, get a heavy grade Loctite to secure the ball to the lever.

I'd probably need something even more permanent. (Someone could
probably still heat up the ball to remove it).

Hmm ... if he has a torch with him to heat it up, and an oven
mitt to wear while unscrewing it -- and an insulated pocket to put it in
while he carries it home ... he probably also has a firearm in his
pocket to deal with someone stopping him taking the whole game.

Really -- you need a *lot* of heat to loosen a heavy Loctite
such as a bearing mount version.

And -- the other end of the shaft is threaded into the mechanism
isn't it? So what will keep someone from unscrewing the ball and the
shaft as a unit?

But as someone else pointed out -- that big a steel ball will be
*heavy* -- and will slow down the reactions of the player. And this is
assuming that the springs are strong enough to restore the ball and
lever to neutral position.

[ ... ]

* * * * The hydraulic oil and a light spindle oil are similar enough so
that might work. *But not Waylube or cutting oil in the same product.
In particular, a cutting oil contains additives which weaken the metal
bonds making it easier to cut, and are also frequently high film
strength lubes (something like Rigid pipe threading oil for example.)

Perhaps I should order larger(gallon) amounts. I'm just trying to keep
things simple for both lathe and mill/drill. Oil for the ways. Oil for
the spindles. cutting/tapping fluid. The lead screw(lithium grease?).
General rust preventative. And something for when I *attempt* to turn
S.S. :-)

* * * * Normally, the leadscrew (at least on my Clausing lathe) uses the
same lube as the ways -- Vactra No. 2. *It is sticky enough so it will
hold position nicely on the leadscrews.

BTW.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...=7899909&PMAKA...
And it's free shipping this month with the code.

* * * * O.K. *I actually use one quart bottles with a squirt spout.
Same brand. *Note that it generates a smell when in use -- especially if
you are running at high forces. *It includes sulfur, and that with heat
becomes sulfur dioxide -- a nasty thing to breathe much of.

Thanks. So that's another item on my list. Now all I need is a tapping
fluid.

Using a die and tapping are both thread cutting, so the Rigid
fluid will work for both. Of course, for small holes there are other
fluids which might be easier to use, such as "TapMagic". If you somehow
get the original formula (now difficult to find) pay attention to the
"Not for Aluminum" warning. You try it and you will get a plume of
smoke and a discolored tap. But the current versions include aluminum,
and there are special versions specifically for aluminum.

* * * * [ ... ]

I think that Aquamet might be a form of 316, but I don't know of it's
work properties. (It might have been a propeller shaft of something
similar). But smoothing it up will be all I need to do anyway.

* * * * Well ... you'll find out how it machines, anyway. :-)

* * * * Based on what someone else posted, it will be a real bear to
machine -- depending on just which alloy it happens to be.

Then I guess for all intents and purposes it is 316...

* * * * The 416 should do nicely -- if you wipe it off after a day's
play.

I'll need something more "maintenance free", so perhaps I should just
forget the stainless idea. For instance plastic injection for the ball-
top. ( just still have to figure out what is the best steel for the
shaft).

Hmm ... MSC lists plastic knobs with brass inserts for the
threads in quite a few sizes -- including sizes of threaded hole.

00448225 1-7/8" diameter, 5/8-18 thread
00448191 1-3/8" diameter, 1/2-20 thread
00448183 1-3/8" diameter, 3/8-24 thread Price: $2.52 ea In stock: 59

Or:

77415263 1-3/8" diameter, shaft length 4.7", shaft diameter 1/2",
shaft chrome plated, thread 3/8-16, Price: $11.94 ea


I've only looked at the first 60 of 300 knobs offered.

O.K. Narrowing the search a bit to knobs with shafts, and
selecting 1-1/2" diameter I find three, all with 0.62" shaft diameter
and 1/2-13 thread. Shaft lengths a

77415438 7.9"
77415420 5.9"
77415446 9.9"

There are four balls with 3/8-16 inserts -- made by Gibralter
and Davies.

Spend time on MSC's web page -- or in their Big-Book catalog.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Don Foreman wrote:

I have a fairly robust (1500 lb or so) 15 x 50 lathe with an Aloris
toolpost and I have a BXA16 toolholder, but the tool I use 95% of the
time is the Diamond Toolholder with 1/4" square HSS bits.

I watched part of the video so I did see what it looks like. When turned to both face and
turn, it would seem you would have top rake with neutral side rake. Am I correct?

I generally have side rake and top rake on a HSS tool.

Thanks,

Wes

On 2010-05-21, DoN. Nichols wrote:

Bad practice following up to yourself, but I've verified by
physical examination some of the things which I suggested below.

On 2010-05-21, Searcher7 wrote:

[ ... ]

Perhaps if I clean the toolholder will slide down when the bar is
*just short* of the full open position.(Not likely though).

If you clean the dovetails, it is likely to make enough
of a difference. If it does not, then you perhaps need to disassemble
the holder and try to start the wedges back on at a different point in
the threads. It uses a multi-start thread to get enough vertical travel
from the limited lever rotation.

To take it apart:

1) Remove the hex nut at the top.

2) Withdraw the T-nut blank and vertical rod.

3) Rotate the lever to move the wedges downwards until
they come out the bottom.

4) Reposition the lever perhaps 30 degrees back towards
lock from the point at which the wedges came out.

5) Re-insert the wedges, and hold them pressed up while
you turn the lever to draw them in fully.

6) Check whether the lever has a more reasonable range.

7) If not, go back to 3 and repeat until you get the proper
lever position.

If you can't find a starting position for the threads which
gives a proper lever range, contact the vendor and see about a
replacement.

I've gone downstairs and tried what I suggested above with my
Phase-II Series 200 (BXA-sized) one -- since it is no longer mounted on
the lathe, having been replaced by the Dorian one.

Yes -- with the T-nut off the bottom, you can walk the wedges
out the bottom of the toolpost simply by operating the lever -- about a
couple of turns IIRC.

It is a three-start thread on the cylinder operated by the
lever, so there are only three positions which you need to try. But be
sure to tell by feel that *both* wedges have moved in to the next
thread start or you will wind up with one higher than the other (which
is what I suspect is part of the problem with yours).

BTW -- the screw *may* be to keep it from coming apart unless
you remove the screw. It is not present in my Phase-II wedge style
toolpost.

I see no practical use for the screw when I have mine apart.

Anyway -- the resetting of the two wedges on the cylindrical
screw operated by the lever is simple enough so I strongly recommend
trying it. It should fix all your problems. I found one of the three
possible positions with mine left the lever exactly where yours was.

The only remaining question is why an Aloris holder is so much
tighter a fit on your toolpost.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

If the holder is of different company than that of the post - all bets are
off. A shallow cut dovetail would do that - it would cinch up much faster.
One with a wider or deeper cut would allow the wedge to move more before
locking up and thus the handle more more.

Another point is you will never really know until you get it clean
and tightly locked. By hand is questionable.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 5/21/2010 3:48 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2010-05-21, wrote:
On May 20, 5:32 pm, "DoN. wrote:
On 2010-05-19, wrote:

On May 18, 5:59 pm, "DoN. wrote:

[ ... ]

I played with it some more and the toolholder finally started to drop
low enough.(As far as the stop on top of the toolholder would allow).

Did you use WD-40 or kerosene or something similar to wash off
the Cosmolene on the dovetails? That will make things a lot more
difficult to move.

I haven't done any cleaning yet.I figure I'll do that just before I
put it on the lathe compound.

Until you clean off the Cosmolene, you will get strange values.

As for that screw -- I'm not sure what function it serves,
though it could set a limit to how far down the wedge can go. There is
certainly nothing like that on my Phase-II series-200 clone of the
Aloris BXA toolpost.

Is there a similar screw in the bottom end of the other wedge?

Nope. Just that one.

I wonder whether it simply got trapped there or whether it was
intended to be an adjustable travel stop.

I wouldn't be able to get a screw driver in there to find out. (But it
seems tight).

Why not? All you need to do is to remove the big hex nut at the
top and pull out the bar with the T-nut blank at the bottom. You might
even be able to rotate the T-nut blank enough to give access with the
nut still on, but just loosened.

However, based on other photos that is probably not needed. You
get plenty of swing on the locking arm.

As long as the head of the screw does not hit the dovetail when
the tool holder is slid all the way down (adjust the height adjustment
nut to allow this) then you can ignore it.

[ ... ]

But the bar only turns about an inch between unlocked and locked. (The
difference in position of the bar between those first two pics show
how far I can turn it when the toolholder is on the post).

Does the tool holder lock firmly in that position?

I can't budge it, so I assume it is locked.

You can't really test that while the Cosmolene is still there.
It will cause it to appear to lock up well before it normally would
really lock up.

And ... what about when the tool holder is not installed? If it
only swings that far then you might want to try removing the screw. It
really does not look as though it belongs there. Does the head of the
screw hit the plate from which you make the T-nut?

When the holder is not on the toolpost the bar will swing a little
less than 180 degrees. The two extremes are shown in the two new pics.
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/

O.K. That is plenty of swing.

(That's the screw knob with the toolpost).

*** Also, I noticed that I cannot put the toolholder on the toolpost
when it is fully open because the bar is in the way at the full open
position.

Perhaps if I clean the toolholder will slide down when the bar is
*just short* of the full open position.(Not likely though).

If you clean the dovetails, it is likely to make enough
of a difference. If it does not, then you perhaps need to disassemble
the holder and try to start the wedges back on at a different point in
the threads. It uses a multi-start thread to get enough vertical travel
from the limited lever rotation.

To take it apart:

1) Remove the hex nut at the top.

2) Withdraw the T-nut blank and vertical rod.

3) Rotate the lever to move the wedges downwards until
they come out the bottom.

4) Reposition the lever perhaps 30 degrees back towards
lock from the point at which the wedges came out.

5) Re-insert the wedges, and hold them pressed up while
you turn the lever to draw them in fully.

6) Check whether the lever has a more reasonable range.

7) If not, go back to 3 and repeat until you get the proper
lever position.

If you can't find a starting position for the threads which
gives a proper lever range, contact the vendor and see about a
replacement.

BTW -- the screw *may* be to keep it from coming apart unless
you remove the screw. It is not present in my Phase-II wedge style
toolpost.

Did you re-post the link to the image of the screw for the other
fellow who has the same brand of toolpost? (I may discover this later
in my reading through the newsgroup, but I don't know yet. :-)

I was able to get the #1 and #4 toolholders on that came with the
toolpost to fit on at both positions, but not the Aloris toolholder.

Hmm ... And where must the locking lever be set to allow you to
slide them on?

Note that with most holders, the locking lever on mine locks up
with the lever pointing towards me (straight out from the lathe). It
will vary a little depending on the actual width of the dovetails in the
holders.

I guess that the first try is to tighten it into the wedge and
see how much travel you get.

Not needed -- you get plenty of travel.

[ ... ]

looks like I'll just have to change the toolholder every time I have
to do a different operation). :-(

That is what a quick-change toolholder is *for*. Once the
Cosmolene is cleaned up and the toolpost is mounted on the lathe, you
will find how quick and easy it is to change tools.

Yes. Perhaps I'm concentrating too hard on trying to get the most
operations out of each holder. :-)

I think so. You want as many holders as needed to hold various
styles of cutters to allow you to do the job at hand. The absolute
*worst* thing to do is to have too few holders and have to change tools
between holders frequently -- also requiring re-setting the tool height
stop nut each time you do this.

It is not *too* bad if you make the changes just before a
project, so all the tools you need are present and adjusted at the start
of the project. But if you have to change between different tools in a
single holder in the middle of a project, you are slowing yourself down,
and increasing the chances of errors.

As I said below -- having multiple holders already set up
available allows you do do the multiple stages of a project much more
quickly and certainly.

I typically go through three or four holders (including the
BXA-16N) on a simple project, and may go through eight on a more complex
project which includes rough and finish turning threading, knurling, and
beveling. (I use the 16N for rough turning, and move to a little very
sharp 1/2" shank carbide insert tool in a standard BXA-1 holder.) This
shank and insert set came with my Compact-5/CNC (a small benchtop CNC
lathe). The shanks are labeled Tizit, and I got quite a few bags of the
55 degree inserts from someone else here on the newsgroup many years
ago.

[ ... ]

BTW Beware of cheap grinders. Many may look like they have a
fairly large motor, but in reality have a tiny underpowered motor
in a larger housing.

Most motors are probably over-rated either way, because the industry
is not really regulated, and horse power claims are false, perhaps
most of the time. (I was just reading about a class action suit that
was won as a result of something like this. https://lawnmowerclass.com/).

There is that one -- and the bogus "horsepower" ratings on air
compressors and shop vacs. An example is the shop vacs which used to be
labeled 7 Hp which plug into a standard 120 VAC outlet. Now, a bit of
calculation says that 7 Hp is 5,250 Watts, and on a 120 VAC outlet, that
would draw 43.75 A. Now most residential outlets are limited to 15A,
and heavy duty ones to 20 A -- so if it really developed the nameplate
horsepower, it would trip the breaker very quickly. :-)

Probably the best test is to try lifting several grinder brands
of the same size. The heavier the grinder the better it will likely be.
(If it has too little real horsepower, it will slow down too much as you
start grinding.)

FWIW -- I have an ancient 6" grinder which belonged to my
father, and which he got in trade for an anchor. I have no idea how old
it really is, but I do know that it looked old back around 1957. :-)

I also picked up an 8" by JET which had been sitting in the
window of a builder's hardware store for many years. It has plenty of
horsepower, weight, very good bearings (it keeps running for a long time
after I switch off the power), and very well balanced. I have no idea
whether more recent ones are as good.

Baldor is the primary name for quality in a bench grinder, and a
used one will be more affordable than new.

[ ... ]

Thanks. The ball-top will be 1-1/2" in diameter, and the shaft will be
3/8" in diameter. The total length will be 5-1/2".

O.K. 1-1/2" diameter round stock, and a *lot* of metal to
remove. It will be cheaper and easier to get 3/8" diameter round stock,
and pre drilled and tapped balls.

If you're worrying about someone unscrewing and stealing the
ball, get a heavy grade Loctite to secure the ball to the lever.

I'd probably need something even more permanent. (Someone could
probably still heat up the ball to remove it).

Hmm ... if he has a torch with him to heat it up, and an oven
mitt to wear while unscrewing it -- and an insulated pocket to put it in
while he carries it home ... he probably also has a firearm in his
pocket to deal with someone stopping him taking the whole game.

Really -- you need a *lot* of heat to loosen a heavy Loctite
such as a bearing mount version.

And -- the other end of the shaft is threaded into the mechanism
isn't it? So what will keep someone from unscrewing the ball and the
shaft as a unit?

But as someone else pointed out -- that big a steel ball will be
*heavy* -- and will slow down the reactions of the player. And this is
assuming that the springs are strong enough to restore the ball and
lever to neutral position.

[ ... ]

The hydraulic oil and a light spindle oil are similar enough so
that might work. But not Waylube or cutting oil in the same product.
In particular, a cutting oil contains additives which weaken the metal
bonds making it easier to cut, and are also frequently high film
strength lubes (something like Rigid pipe threading oil for example.)

Perhaps I should order larger(gallon) amounts. I'm just trying to keep
things simple for both lathe and mill/drill. Oil for the ways. Oil for
the spindles. cutting/tapping fluid. The lead screw(lithium grease?).
General rust preventative. And something for when I *attempt* to turn
S.S. :-)

Normally, the leadscrew (at least on my Clausing lathe) uses the
same lube as the ways -- Vactra No. 2. It is sticky enough so it will
hold position nicely on the leadscrews.

BTW.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...=7899909&PMAKA...
And it's free shipping this month with the code.

O.K. I actually use one quart bottles with a squirt spout.
Same brand. Note that it generates a smell when in use -- especially if
you are running at high forces. It includes sulfur, and that with heat
becomes sulfur dioxide -- a nasty thing to breathe much of.

Thanks. So that's another item on my list. Now all I need is a tapping
fluid.

Using a die and tapping are both thread cutting, so the Rigid
fluid will work for both. Of course, for small holes there are other
fluids which might be easier to use, such as "TapMagic". If you somehow
get the original formula (now difficult to find) pay attention to the
"Not for Aluminum" warning. You try it and you will get a plume of
smoke and a discolored tap. But the current versions include aluminum,
and there are special versions specifically for aluminum.

[ ... ]

I think that Aquamet might be a form of 316, but I don't know of it's
work properties. (It might have been a propeller shaft of something
similar). But smoothing it up will be all I need to do anyway.

Well ... you'll find out how it machines, anyway. :-)

Based on what someone else posted, it will be a real bear to
machine -- depending on just which alloy it happens to be.

Then I guess for all intents and purposes it is 316...

The 416 should do nicely -- if you wipe it off after a day's
play.

I'll need something more "maintenance free", so perhaps I should just
forget the stainless idea. For instance plastic injection for the ball-
top. ( just still have to figure out what is the best steel for the
shaft).

Hmm ... MSC lists plastic knobs with brass inserts for the
threads in quite a few sizes -- including sizes of threaded hole.

00448225 1-7/8" diameter, 5/8-18 thread
00448191 1-3/8" diameter, 1/2-20 thread
00448183 1-3/8" diameter, 3/8-24 thread Price: $2.52 ea In stock: 59

Or:

77415263 1-3/8" diameter, shaft length 4.7", shaft diameter 1/2",
shaft chrome plated, thread 3/8-16, Price: $11.94 ea


I've only looked at the first 60 of 300 knobs offered.

O.K. Narrowing the search a bit to knobs with shafts, and
selecting 1-1/2" diameter I find three, all with 0.62" shaft diameter
and 1/2-13 thread. Shaft lengths a

77415438 7.9"
77415420 5.9"
77415446 9.9"

There are four balls with 3/8-16 inserts -- made by Gibralter
and Davies.

Spend time on MSC's web page -- or in their Big-Book catalog.

Good Luck,
DoN.

On May 21, 4:48 pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-21, Searcher7 wrote:



On May 20, 5:32 pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:
On 2010-05-19, Searcher7 wrote:

On May 18, 5:59 pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

I played with it some more and the toolholder finally started to drop
low enough.(As far as the stop on top of the toolholder would allow)..

Did you use WD-40 or kerosene or something similar to wash off
the Cosmolene on the dovetails? That will make things a lot more
difficult to move.

I haven't done any cleaning yet.I figure I'll do that just before I
put it on the lathe compound.

Until you clean off the Cosmolene, you will get strange values.

Yes. But this is *really* strange. :-)

All supplied holders work on both sides of the tool post and lock at
the same position.(The locking bar swings 90 degrees).

The Aloris will only work on one side with the locking bar swinging
about 15 degrees.

As for that screw -- I'm not sure what function it serves,
though it could set a limit to how far down the wedge can go. There is
certainly nothing like that on my Phase-II series-200 clone of the
Aloris BXA toolpost.

Is there a similar screw in the bottom end of the other wedge?

Nope. Just that one.

I wonder whether it simply got trapped there or whether it was
intended to be an adjustable travel stop.

I wouldn't be able to get a screw driver in there to find out. (But it
seems tight).

Why not? All you need to do is to remove the big hex nut at the
top and pull out the bar with the T-nut blank at the bottom. You might
even be able to rotate the T-nut blank enough to give access with the
nut still on, but just loosened.

However, based on other photos that is probably not needed. You
get plenty of swing on the locking arm.

As long as the head of the screw does not hit the dovetail when
the tool holder is slid all the way down (adjust the height adjustment
nut to allow this) then you can ignore it.

[ ... ]

But the bar only turns about an inch between unlocked and locked. (The
difference in position of the bar between those first two pics show
how far I can turn it when the toolholder is on the post).

Does the tool holder lock firmly in that position?

I can't budge it, so I assume it is locked.

You can't really test that while the Cosmolene is still there.
It will cause it to appear to lock up well before it normally would
really lock up.

And ... what about when the tool holder is not installed? If it
only swings that far then you might want to try removing the screw. It
really does not look as though it belongs there. Does the head of the
screw hit the plate from which you make the T-nut?

When the holder is not on the toolpost the bar will swing a little
less than 180 degrees. The two extremes are shown in the two new pics.
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...slander/Tools/

O.K. That is plenty of swing.

(That's the screw knob with the toolpost).

*** Also, I noticed that I cannot put the toolholder on the toolpost
when it is fully open because the bar is in the way at the full open
position.

Perhaps if I clean the toolholder will slide down when the bar is
*just short* of the full open position.(Not likely though).

If you clean the dovetails, it is likely to make enough
of a difference. If it does not, then you perhaps need to disassemble
the holder and try to start the wedges back on at a different point in
the threads. It uses a multi-start thread to get enough vertical travel
from the limited lever rotation.

To take it apart:

1) Remove the hex nut at the top.

2) Withdraw the T-nut blank and vertical rod.

3) Rotate the lever to move the wedges downwards until
they come out the bottom.

4) Reposition the lever perhaps 30 degrees back towards
lock from the point at which the wedges came out.

5) Re-insert the wedges, and hold them pressed up while
you turn the lever to draw them in fully.

6) Check whether the lever has a more reasonable range.

7) If not, go back to 3 and repeat until you get the proper
lever position.

If you can't find a starting position for the threads which
gives a proper lever range, contact the vendor and see about a
replacement.

BTW -- the screw *may* be to keep it from coming apart unless
you remove the screw. It is not present in my Phase-II wedge style
toolpost.

Or perhaps it is a chewing gum fix to a quality control problem.

Did you re-post the link to the image of the screw for the other
fellow who has the same brand of toolpost? (I may discover this later
in my reading through the newsgroup, but I don't know yet. :-)

Yes. My tool post actually has "250-111 CHINA" stamped on it and
nothing else.

I was able to get the #1 and #4 toolholders on that came with the
toolpost to fit on at both positions, but not the Aloris toolholder.

Hmm ... And where must the locking lever be set to allow you to
slide them on?

I can slide the supplied toolholders on even when the locking bar is
past the halfway point and closer to the locked position.

Note that with most holders, the locking lever on mine locks up
with the lever pointing towards me (straight out from the lathe). It
will vary a little depending on the actual width of the dovetails in the
holders.

I guess that the first try is to tighten it into the wedge and
see how much travel you get.

Not needed -- you get plenty of travel.

[ ... ]

looks like I'll just have to change the toolholder every time I have
to do a different operation). :-(

That is what a quick-change toolholder is *for*. Once the
Cosmolene is cleaned up and the toolpost is mounted on the lathe, you
will find how quick and easy it is to change tools.

Yes. Perhaps I'm concentrating too hard on trying to get the most
operations out of each holder. :-)

I think so. You want as many holders as needed to hold various
styles of cutters to allow you to do the job at hand. The absolute
*worst* thing to do is to have too few holders and have to change tools
between holders frequently -- also requiring re-setting the tool height
stop nut each time you do this.

It is not *too* bad if you make the changes just before a
project, so all the tools you need are present and adjusted at the start
of the project. But if you have to change between different tools in a
single holder in the middle of a project, you are slowing yourself down,
and increasing the chances of errors.

As I said below -- having multiple holders already set up
available allows you do do the multiple stages of a project much more
quickly and certainly.

I typically go through three or four holders (including the
BXA-16N) on a simple project, and may go through eight on a more complex
project which includes rough and finish turning threading, knurling, and
beveling. (I use the 16N for rough turning, and move to a little very
sharp 1/2" shank carbide insert tool in a standard BXA-1 holder.) This
shank and insert set came with my Compact-5/CNC (a small benchtop CNC
lathe). The shanks are labeled Tizit, and I got quite a few bags of the
55 degree inserts from someone else here on the newsgroup many years
ago.

[ ... ]

BTW Beware of cheap grinders. Many may look like they have a
fairly large motor, but in reality have a tiny underpowered motor
in a larger housing.

Most motors are probably over-rated either way, because the industry
is not really regulated, and horse power claims are false, perhaps
most of the time. (I was just reading about a class action suit that
was won as a result of something like this.https://lawnmowerclass.com/)..

There is that one -- and the bogus "horsepower" ratings on air
compressors and shop vacs. An example is the shop vacs which used to be
labeled 7 Hp which plug into a standard 120 VAC outlet. Now, a bit of
calculation says that 7 Hp is 5,250 Watts, and on a 120 VAC outlet, that
would draw 43.75 A. Now most residential outlets are limited to 15A,
and heavy duty ones to 20 A -- so if it really developed the nameplate
horsepower, it would trip the breaker very quickly. :-)

Probably the best test is to try lifting several grinder brands
of the same size. The heavier the grinder the better it will likely be.
(If it has too little real horsepower, it will slow down too much as you
start grinding.)

I have a Ryobi 6" Thin Line Bench Grinder.(BGH615 120V AC, 60Hz, 2.1A
3600RPM/TR/MN, 1/2" Arbor)
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ools/Grinders/

Machines tend to be lighter today because manufacturers squeeze out as
much profit as they can by cutting corners and using less material, so
older machines tended to be heavier and more reliable. The old grinder
in those pics is much heavier than the Ryobi. (And probably much, much
older than me). :-)

FWIW -- I have an ancient 6" grinder which belonged to my
father, and which he got in trade for an anchor. I have no idea how old
it really is, but I do know that it looked old back around 1957. :-)

I also picked up an 8" by JET which had been sitting in the
window of a builder's hardware store for many years. It has plenty of
horsepower, weight, very good bearings (it keeps running for a long time
after I switch off the power), and very well balanced. I have no idea
whether more recent ones are as good.

Unlikely.

Baldor is the primary name for quality in a bench grinder, and a
used one will be more affordable than new.

I'll see how my Ryobi does. (I still have to figure out what Aluminum
Oxide wheels to get for it).

[ ... ]

Thanks. The ball-top will be 1-1/2" in diameter, and the shaft will be
3/8" in diameter. The total length will be 5-1/2".

O.K. 1-1/2" diameter round stock, and a *lot* of metal to
remove. It will be cheaper and easier to get 3/8" diameter round stock,
and pre drilled and tapped balls.

If you're worrying about someone unscrewing and stealing the
ball, get a heavy grade Loctite to secure the ball to the lever.

I'd probably need something even more permanent. (Someone could
probably still heat up the ball to remove it).

Hmm ... if he has a torch with him to heat it up, and an oven
mitt to wear while unscrewing it -- and an insulated pocket to put it in
while he carries it home ... he probably also has a firearm in his
pocket to deal with someone stopping him taking the whole game.

Really -- you need a *lot* of heat to loosen a heavy Loctite
such as a bearing mount version.

And -- the other end of the shaft is threaded into the mechanism
isn't it? So what will keep someone from unscrewing the ball and the
shaft as a unit?

Actually an "e" (or is is "C") clip just above the threaded end would
do the job of securing the joystick into the assembly. The thread is
for a protective cap, since that part of the joystick will move about
inside a restrictor.

But as someone else pointed out -- that big a steel ball will be
*heavy* ...

It'll be a heavy duty control panel. :-)

-- and will slow down the reactions of the player. *And this is
assuming that the springs are strong enough to restore the ball and
lever to neutral position.

Player reaction won't be a problem. And I'll experiment with the best
re-centering springs.

* * * * [ ... ]

* * * * The hydraulic oil and a light spindle oil are similar enough so
that might work. *But not Waylube or cutting oil in the same product.
In particular, a cutting oil contains additives which weaken the metal
bonds making it easier to cut, and are also frequently high film
strength lubes (something like Rigid pipe threading oil for example..)

Perhaps I should order larger(gallon) amounts. I'm just trying to keep
things simple for both lathe and mill/drill. Oil for the ways. Oil for
the spindles. cutting/tapping fluid. The lead screw(lithium grease?)..
General rust preventative. And something for when I *attempt* to turn
S.S. :-)

* * * * Normally, the leadscrew (at least on my Clausing lathe) uses the
same lube as the ways -- Vactra No. 2. *It is sticky enough so it will
hold position nicely on the leadscrews.

BTW.
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...=7899909&PMAKA...
And it's free shipping this month with the code.

* * * * O.K. *I actually use one quart bottles with a squirt spout.
Same brand. *Note that it generates a smell when in use -- especially if
you are running at high forces. *It includes sulfur, and that with heat
becomes sulfur dioxide -- a nasty thing to breathe much of.

Thanks. So that's another item on my list. Now all I need is a tapping
fluid.

* * * * Using a die and tapping are both thread cutting, so the Rigid
fluid will work for both. *Of course, for small holes there are other
fluids which might be easier to use, such as "TapMagic". *If you somehow
get the original formula (now difficult to find) pay attention to the
"Not for Aluminum" warning. *You try it and you will get a plume of
smoke and a discolored tap. *But the current versions include aluminum,
and there are special versions specifically for aluminum.

Since the Enco site is down again I'll have to wait. But basically I
can use the same oil for turning as I do for threading, correct?

* * * * [ ... ]

I think that Aquamet might be a form of 316, but I don't know of it's
work properties. (It might have been a propeller shaft of something
similar). But smoothing it up will be all I need to do anyway.

* * * * Well ... you'll find out how it machines, anyway.. :-)

* * * * Based on what someone else posted, it will be a real bear to
machine -- depending on just which alloy it happens to be.

Then I guess for all intents and purposes it is 316...

* * * * The 416 should do nicely -- if you wipe it off after a day's
play.

I'll need something more "maintenance free", so perhaps I should just
forget the stainless idea. For instance plastic injection for the ball-
top. ( just still have to figure out what is the best steel for the
shaft).

* * * * Hmm ... MSC lists plastic knobs with brass inserts for the
threads in quite a few sizes -- including sizes of threaded hole.

00448225 * * * *1-7/8" diameter, 5/8-18 thread
00448191 * * * *1-3/8" diameter, 1/2-20 thread
00448183 * * * *1-3/8" diameter, 3/8-24 thread Price: *$2.52 ea In stock: *59

Or:

77415263 * * * *1-3/8" diameter, shaft length 4.7", shaft diameter 1/2",
* * * * * * * * shaft chrome plated, thread 3/8-16, Price: $11.94 ea

* * * * I've only looked at the first 60 of 300 knobs offered.

* * * * O.K. *Narrowing the search a bit to knobs with shafts, and
selecting 1-1/2" diameter I find three, all with 0.62" shaft diameter
and 1/2-13 thread. *Shaft lengths a

77415438 * * * *7.9"
77415420 * * * *5.9"
77415446 * * * *9.9"

* * * * There are four balls with 3/8-16 inserts -- made by Gibralter
and Davies.

* * * * Spend time on MSC's web page -- or in their Big-Book catalog.

I'll definitely have to make my own shafts to get the lengths correct.
(I wonder if I should look into plastic injection for the knobs). @#$
%! MSC is also temporarily down.

Anyway, thanks a lot.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

On 2010-05-30, Searcher7 wrote:
On May 21, 4:48 pm, "DoN. Nichols" wrote:

[ ... ]

Until you clean off the Cosmolene, you will get strange values.

Yes. But this is *really* strange. :-)

All supplied holders work on both sides of the tool post and lock at
the same position.(The locking bar swings 90 degrees).

The Aloris will only work on one side with the locking bar swinging
about 15 degrees.

Strange indeed -- but did you compare the height of the wedges
on the two stations? If they are unequal, you'll want to remove them
and reinstall with the proper threads engaged -- as I typed an
explanation of a while back (Aha! it is still quoted below) -- and I
later checked that my Phase-II worked the same.

And did you try measuring inside the dovetail of both the Aloris
and one of the others which fit properly using a pair of rods of
reasonable diameter as I suggested earlier?

[ ... ]

If you clean the dovetails, it is likely to make enough
of a difference. If it does not, then you perhaps need to disassemble
the holder and try to start the wedges back on at a different point in
the threads. It uses a multi-start thread to get enough vertical travel
from the limited lever rotation.

To take it apart:

1) Remove the hex nut at the top.

2) Withdraw the T-nut blank and vertical rod.

3) Rotate the lever to move the wedges downwards until
they come out the bottom.

4) Reposition the lever perhaps 30 degrees back towards
lock from the point at which the wedges came out.

5) Re-insert the wedges, and hold them pressed up while
you turn the lever to draw them in fully.

6) Check whether the lever has a more reasonable range.

7) If not, go back to 3 and repeat until you get the proper
lever position.


When I checked with mine, I discovered that the threads are
3-start, so you should only need three tries to get it right.

[ ... ]

BTW -- the screw *may* be to keep it from coming apart unless
you remove the screw. It is not present in my Phase-II wedge style
toolpost.

Or perhaps it is a chewing gum fix to a quality control problem.

Likely.

Did you re-post the link to the image of the screw for the other
fellow who has the same brand of toolpost? (I may discover this later
in my reading through the newsgroup, but I don't know yet. :-)

Yes. My tool post actually has "250-111 CHINA" stamped on it and
nothing else.

O.K. And he did not have the screw in his, IIRC.

I was able to get the #1 and #4 toolholders on that came with the
toolpost to fit on at both positions, but not the Aloris toolholder.

Hmm ... And where must the locking lever be set to allow you to
slide them on?

I can slide the supplied toolholders on even when the locking bar is
past the halfway point and closer to the locked position.

On either station (dovetail)?

[ ... ]

Probably the best test is to try lifting several grinder brands
of the same size. The heavier the grinder the better it will likely be.
(If it has too little real horsepower, it will slow down too much as you
start grinding.)

I have a Ryobi 6" Thin Line Bench Grinder.(BGH615 120V AC, 60Hz, 2.1A
3600RPM/TR/MN, 1/2" Arbor)
http://s290.photobucket.com/albums/l...ools/Grinders/

No experience with it.

And that old beat-up grinder seems to be missing (among other
things) the sheet metal which goes between the bells to cover the field
coil frame visible as a square there. This means that it has been
filled with abrasive grit over the years.

[ ... ]

Baldor is the primary name for quality in a bench grinder, and a
used one will be more affordable than new.

I'll see how my Ryobi does. (I still have to figure out what Aluminum
Oxide wheels to get for it).

O.K. At least try it with what you have, so you'll know how
things change with new wheels. And get a wheel dresser to true it up
once you mount the wheels.

[ ... ]

And -- the other end of the shaft is threaded into the mechanism
isn't it? So what will keep someone from unscrewing the ball and the
shaft as a unit?

Actually an "e" (or is is "C") clip just above the threaded end would
do the job of securing the joystick into the assembly. The thread is
for a protective cap, since that part of the joystick will move about
inside a restrictor.

O.K.

But as someone else pointed out -- that big a steel ball will be
*heavy* ...

It'll be a heavy duty control panel. :-)

Well ... you'll find out how it works out.

-- and will slow down the reactions of the player. *And this is
assuming that the springs are strong enough to restore the ball and
lever to neutral position.

Player reaction won't be a problem. And I'll experiment with the best
re-centering springs.

[ ... ]

* * * * Using a die and tapping are both thread cutting, so the Rigid
fluid will work for both. *Of course, for small holes there are other
fluids which might be easier to use, such as "TapMagic". *If you somehow
get the original formula (now difficult to find) pay attention to the
"Not for Aluminum" warning. *You try it and you will get a plume of
smoke and a discolored tap. *But the current versions include aluminum,
and there are special versions specifically for aluminum.

Since the Enco site is down again I'll have to wait. But basically I
can use the same oil for turning as I do for threading, correct?

Yes. Some are better than others for specific tasks and
materials but they *all* work better than nothing. :-)

[ ... ]

* * * * Hmm ... MSC lists plastic knobs with brass inserts for the
threads in quite a few sizes -- including sizes of threaded hole.

00448225 * * * *1-7/8" diameter, 5/8-18 thread
00448191 * * * *1-3/8" diameter, 1/2-20 thread
00448183 * * * *1-3/8" diameter, 3/8-24 thread Price: *$2.52 ea In stock: *59

Or:

77415263 * * * *1-3/8" diameter, shaft length 4.7", shaft diameter 1/2",
* * * * * * * * shaft chrome plated, thread 3/8-16, Price: $11.94 ea

* * * * I've only looked at the first 60 of 300 knobs offered.

* * * * O.K. *Narrowing the search a bit to knobs with shafts, and
selecting 1-1/2" diameter I find three, all with 0.62" shaft diameter
and 1/2-13 thread. *Shaft lengths a

77415438 * * * *7.9"
77415420 * * * *5.9"
77415446 * * * *9.9"

* * * * There are four balls with 3/8-16 inserts -- made by Gibralter
and Davies.

* * * * Spend time on MSC's web page -- or in their Big-Book catalog.

I'll definitely have to make my own shafts to get the lengths correct.

O.K.

(I wonder if I should look into plastic injection for the knobs). @#$
%! MSC is also temporarily down.

The good knobs have a brass insert to carry the threads cast
into the body of the knob.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
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