The story sounds a little incongruous, but still interesting.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...-suspects.html

i

On Dec 28, 7:44*am, Ignoramus4115
wrote:
The story sounds a little incongruous, but still interesting.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...eowner-shoots-...

i


Everyone who shoots a thug is a Hero.

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 06:44:09 -0600, Ignoramus4115
wrote:

The story sounds a little incongruous, but still interesting.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...-suspects.html

i
It happens with great regularlity.

http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/2009/12/

http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/2009/11/

etc etc...

Be sure to hit More at the bottom of each page.


Gunner

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the
means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not
making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of
it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different
countries, that the more public provisions were made for the
poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became
poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the
more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin
Franklin, /The Encouragement of Idleness/, 1766

On 2009-12-28, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 06:44:09 -0600, Ignoramus4115
wrote:

The story sounds a little incongruous, but still interesting.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...-suspects.html

i
It happens with great regularlity.

http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/2009/12/

http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/2009/11/

etc etc...

What I found odd, in the story that I cited, is this:

``A press release from police said the shooting happened at about 5:47
p.m. Saturday, with the masked men forcing their way into a house in
the Country Ridge subdivision, then engaging in "repeated demands and
physical altercations." The pair refused to leave, according to police
and one of the homeowners shot them.''

It just does not sound like a garden variety home invasion.

i

Be sure to hit More at the bottom of each page.


Gunner

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the
means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not
making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of
it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different
countries, that the more public provisions were made for the
poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became
poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the
more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin
Franklin, /The Encouragement of Idleness/, 1766

On Dec 28, 11:39*am, Ignoramus4115
wrote:
...
What I found odd, in the story that I cited, is this:

``A press release from police said the shooting happened at about 5:47
p.m. Saturday, with the masked men forcing their way into a house in
the Country Ridge subdivision, then engaging in "repeated demands and
physical altercations." The pair refused to leave, according to police
and one of the homeowners shot them.''

It just does not sound like a garden variety home invasion.

i

Maybe he had revealed his gun collection on the Internet.

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Dec 28, 11:39?am, Ignoramus4115
wrote:
...
What I found odd, in the story that I cited, is this:

``A press release from police said the shooting happened at about 5:47
p.m. Saturday, with the masked men forcing their way into a house in
the Country Ridge subdivision, then engaging in "repeated demands and
physical altercations." The pair refused to leave, according to police
and one of the homeowners shot them.''

It just does not sound like a garden variety home invasion.

i

Maybe he had revealed his gun collection on the Internet.

Or the $1000 cash in his pockets at all times.

"Ignoramus4115" wrote in message
...
The story sounds a little incongruous, but still interesting.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...-suspects.html



Dec 28, 2009 5:28 am US/Central Police Investigate Shootings In Wauconda
Adult And Teen Stormed Couple's Home; Fight, Shooting Ensued

WAUCONDA, Ill. (CBS) ? Imagine you're home at night and someone starts
banging on your door.

When you open the door to see who it is they push their way inside.

As CBS 2's Mike Puccnielli explains, that is what police say happened
Saturday to a Wauconda couple, only they fought back.

Loved ones of residents who police say were attacked in their Wauconda home
stopped by the scene of the crime about 24 hours later.

They weren't talking, but police were about what they say is the first
shooting to happen in the Lake County town in 20 years.

At about 6 p.m. Saturday, police say, a father and his 15-year-old son
forced their way into a home on Indian Ridge Trail because, police say, they
believed the boy's 11-year-old brother was being held against his will
inside.

When the two got in, a struggle ensued and punches were thrown.

At one point during the struggle, police said, the homeowner pulled a
handgun and shot the man and his son. Police were called. Officers found the
two intruders outside bleeding.

"The homeowners were absolutely just frightened to death. … They had no idea
who these people were," Wauconda Deputy Police Chief Patrick Yost said.

Police are still trying to figure out why the father and son team targeted
the house.

They say it's possible that the two simply went to the wrong house. They
also say that the 11-year-old boy was apparently in no danger. Police say
they found him unharmed at a friend's house.

Neighbors are concerned.

"It's extremely shocking," neighbor David Brown said Saturday night. "I've
lived here for 20 years, and it's the first time that anything's ever
happened here like this."

The man and woman who live in the home were both treated and released from
the hospital.

The 15-year-old was released after he was treated for a gunshot wound to his
leg. It's not clear where the 49-year-old was shot. At last check, he was in
surgery at Lutheran General.

Charges in the case could be announced later Monday.

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 06:44:09 -0600, the infamous Ignoramus4115
scrawled the following:

The story sounds a little incongruous, but still interesting.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...-suspects.html

Two points for the homeowner. Kudos!

I just hope that the city, county, and/or state judicial departments
don't jump him or her for doing something that the police are unable
to do: actually protect citizens.

--
"I believe that sex is one of the most beautiful, natural, wholesome things
that money can buy." --Tom Clancy

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 10:39:36 -0600, the infamous Ignoramus4115
scrawled the following:

On 2009-12-28, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 06:44:09 -0600, Ignoramus4115
wrote:

The story sounds a little incongruous, but still interesting.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...-suspects.html

i
It happens with great regularlity.

http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/2009/12/

http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/2009/11/

etc etc...

What I found odd, in the story that I cited, is this:

``A press release from police said the shooting happened at about 5:47
p.m. Saturday, with the masked men forcing their way into a house in
the Country Ridge subdivision, then engaging in "repeated demands and
physical altercations." The pair refused to leave, according to police
and one of the homeowners shot them.''

It just does not sound like a garden variety home invasion.

If they didn't have masks on, I might think it was a drug deal gone
bad. The masks clinch it for me: they weren't supposed to be there and
got what they deserved. Why he left them alive (to sue him) I'll
never know.

--
"I believe that sex is one of the most beautiful, natural, wholesome things
that money can buy." --Tom Clancy

"Lib Loo" wrote in message
...


"Ignoramus4115" wrote in message
...
The story sounds a little incongruous, but still interesting.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...-suspects.html



Dec 28, 2009 5:28 am US/Central Police Investigate Shootings In Wauconda
Adult And Teen Stormed Couple's Home; Fight, Shooting Ensued

WAUCONDA, Ill. (CBS) ? Imagine you're home at night and someone starts
banging on your door.

When you open the door to see who it is they push their way inside.

As CBS 2's Mike Puccnielli explains, that is what police say happened
Saturday to a Wauconda couple, only they fought back.

Loved ones of residents who police say were attacked in their Wauconda
home stopped by the scene of the crime about 24 hours later.

They weren't talking, but police were about what they say is the first
shooting to happen in the Lake County town in 20 years.

At about 6 p.m. Saturday, police say, a father and his 15-year-old son
forced their way into a home on Indian Ridge Trail because, police say,
they believed the boy's 11-year-old brother was being held against his
will inside.

When the two got in, a struggle ensued and punches were thrown.

At one point during the struggle, police said, the homeowner pulled a
handgun and shot the man and his son. Police were called. Officers found
the two intruders outside bleeding.

"The homeowners were absolutely just frightened to death. … They had no
idea who these people were," Wauconda Deputy Police Chief Patrick Yost
said.

Police are still trying to figure out why the father and son team targeted
the house.

They say it's possible that the two simply went to the wrong house. They
also say that the 11-year-old boy was apparently in no danger. Police say
they found him unharmed at a friend's house.

Neighbors are concerned.

"It's extremely shocking," neighbor David Brown said Saturday night. "I've
lived here for 20 years, and it's the first time that anything's ever
happened here like this."

The man and woman who live in the home were both treated and released from
the hospital.

The 15-year-old was released after he was treated for a gunshot wound to
his leg. It's not clear where the 49-year-old was shot. At last check, he
was in surgery at Lutheran General.

Charges in the case could be announced later Monday.



Ya, it appears to be some pretty weird sh)t.

Two nitwits go out to pick up an 11 year old relative, but get the address
wrong.

Homeowners says "there ain't no kid here".

Nitwits decide that the homeowner is some kind of perv and that he's lying
to them. So they start pushing him around.

Homeowner thinks that the nitwits are a couple of crazy psychos and pops em
both with a "small caliber handgun"

Bad brains, it's worse than no brains at all.


Paul K. Dickman

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

If they didn't have masks on, I might think it was a drug deal gone
bad. The masks clinch it for me: they weren't supposed to be there and
got what they deserved. Why he left them alive (to sue him) I'll
never know.

(720 ILCS 5/Art. 7 heading)
ARTICLE 7. JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE; EXONERATION


(720 ILCS 5/7-1) (from Ch. 38, par. 7-1)
Sec. 7-1. Use of force in defense of person.
(a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and
to the extent that he reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to
defend himself or another against such other's imminent use of unlawful
force. However, he is justified in the use of force which is intended or
likely to cause death or great bodily harm only if he reasonably believes
that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm
to himself or another, or the commission of a forcible felony.
(b) In no case shall any act involving the use of force justified under
this Section give rise to any claim or liability brought by or on behalf of
any person acting within the definition of "aggressor" set forth in Section
7-4 of this Article, or the estate, spouse, or other family member of such a
person, against the person or estate of the person using such justified
force, unless the use of force involves willful or wanton misconduct.
(Source: P.A. 93-832, eff. 7-28-04.)

Paul... here's a newer article...

Shooting at Wauconda home linked to mistaken address

Wauconda police said today that a shooting and alleged home invasion
early Saturday night appears to be the result of a mistaken address.

Two Wauconda residents, a 15-year-old boy and a 49-year-old man, were
shot by the owner of a house on the 300 block of Indian Ridge Trail in
the far north suburb just before 6 p.m., police said, after the two
refused to leave the residence.

Wauconda Police Commander John Thibault said the pair believed they
were picking up a family member at the home. When told by the
homeowners that their family member was not present, the suspects did
not believe them, he said.

The pair forced their way in and assaulted the two people inside,
causing minor injuries, according to police.

One of the homeowners, who Thibault said is a registered firearm
owner, then shot both the man and the teen with a small caliber
handgun. All four, whom authorities declined to identify, were taken
to area hospitals.

Police said the teen and both homeowners were treated at Advocate Good
Shepherd Hospital in Barrington and released. The 49-year-old man, who
underwent surgery at Lutheran General Hospital in Park Ridge on Sunday
morning, remained in critical condition Monday, according to Thibault.

He said no charges have been filed in the case and police have not
arrested anyone. Investigators continue to interview both the suspects
and the homeowners, a pair Thibault described as "still pretty shaken
up."

Authorities declined to identify the family member that the teenager
and man were seeking, but did say that individual "is and was always
safe, as far as we know."

Police said the incident was not gang or drug related.

But Thibault said police are still trying to answer some questions,
such as the "exact rationale" for the two forcing their way inside.

-- Georgia Garvey

"Ignoramus4115" wrote in message
...
Paul... here's a newer article...

Shooting at Wauconda home linked to mistaken address

Wauconda police said today that a shooting and alleged home invasion
early Saturday night appears to be the result of a mistaken address.

Two Wauconda residents, a 15-year-old boy and a 49-year-old man, were
shot by the owner of a house on the 300 block of Indian Ridge Trail in
the far north suburb just before 6 p.m., police said, after the two
refused to leave the residence.

Wauconda Police Commander John Thibault said the pair believed they
were picking up a family member at the home. When told by the
homeowners that their family member was not present, the suspects did
not believe them, he said.

The pair forced their way in and assaulted the two people inside,
causing minor injuries, according to police.

One of the homeowners, who Thibault said is a registered firearm
owner, then shot both the man and the teen with a small caliber
handgun. All four, whom authorities declined to identify, were taken
to area hospitals.

Police said the teen and both homeowners were treated at Advocate Good
Shepherd Hospital in Barrington and released. The 49-year-old man, who
underwent surgery at Lutheran General Hospital in Park Ridge on Sunday
morning, remained in critical condition Monday, according to Thibault.

He said no charges have been filed in the case and police have not
arrested anyone. Investigators continue to interview both the suspects
and the homeowners, a pair Thibault described as "still pretty shaken
up."

Authorities declined to identify the family member that the teenager
and man were seeking, but did say that individual "is and was always
safe, as far as we know."

Police said the incident was not gang or drug related.

But Thibault said police are still trying to answer some questions,
such as the "exact rationale" for the two forcing their way inside.

-- Georgia Garvey

They were looking for their 11 year old kid and went to the wrong house to
pick him up.

Ignoramus4115 wrote:

What I found odd, in the story that I cited, is this:

``A press release from police said the shooting happened at about 5:47
p.m. Saturday, with the masked men forcing their way into a house in
the Country Ridge subdivision, then engaging in "repeated demands and
physical altercations." The pair refused to leave, according to police
and one of the homeowners shot them.''

It just does not sound like a garden variety home invasion.

Right after forcing in, should I have still have the capability, there would be strangers
with multiple holes in them. Could just be bad writing.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Right after forcing in, should I have still have the capability, there
would be strangers
with multiple holes in them. Could just be bad writing.

Wes

There was an interesting home invasion where I lived in LV probably 20 years
ago. Two thugs start breaking down the door. Daughter panics and runs into
the bedroom closet. Thugs come in and beat Dad. Duct tape him and throw
him in the SAME bedroom closet, not knowing daughter is in there. They're
ransacking the house. Daughter unties Dad, Dad gets 44 Mag. (not joking)
which was luckily in same closet, and blows one of the perps away instantly,
and seriously wounds the second one who goes to prison.

Sometimes it all doesn't go ABC. I have a .357 on top a étagère in my
living room about ten feet from the front door. Hidden by the top crown
molding. In a bad situation, it would take me some time to get it out and
fire. I keep it up there because we have kids in the house at times. Glass
shelves, so they could not climb up there. I'd like to make some type of
box where it would be instantly handy right beside the door. I have seen
picture frames with hidden compartments, and such things.

Point is, one doesn't always have time or warning to get the gun quickly.
And definitely, I would not use a "small caliber gun" for protection. Must
been just what he had.

We have had recent robberies and burglaries in our neighborhood, which is a
town of 1200. Some of these are "hot prowls" where perps are going through
the house with people in them. It's not paranoia if they are really out to
get you, and it happens every day.

Steve

Ignoramus4115 wrote:

Paul... here's a newer article...

Shooting at Wauconda home linked to mistaken address

Wauconda police said today that a shooting and alleged home invasion
early Saturday night appears to be the result of a mistaken address.

Two Wauconda residents, a 15-year-old boy and a 49-year-old man, were
shot by the owner of a house on the 300 block of Indian Ridge Trail in
the far north suburb just before 6 p.m., police said, after the two
refused to leave the residence.

Wauconda Police Commander John Thibault said the pair believed they
were picking up a family member at the home. When told by the
homeowners that their family member was not present, the suspects did
not believe them, he said.


I had something like that happen once. Guy shows up at my door at night quite agitated
demanding I send his daughter out. I didn't know who he was nor did I know his daughter.

He was intent on coming inside, I was intent on not allowing that to happen since who
knows what is really going on.

He showed good sense and backed down.

I can't remember if I told him to contact the Sheriff or I convinced him I really didn't
know his girl, maybe it was just my tone of voice and confidence he was not coming in that
got his attention.

Yes, firearms were involved but he never saw, nor did I mention one.

Wes

On 2009-12-29, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus4115 wrote:

Paul... here's a newer article...

Shooting at Wauconda home linked to mistaken address

Wauconda police said today that a shooting and alleged home invasion
early Saturday night appears to be the result of a mistaken address.

Two Wauconda residents, a 15-year-old boy and a 49-year-old man, were
shot by the owner of a house on the 300 block of Indian Ridge Trail in
the far north suburb just before 6 p.m., police said, after the two
refused to leave the residence.

Wauconda Police Commander John Thibault said the pair believed they
were picking up a family member at the home. When told by the
homeowners that their family member was not present, the suspects did
not believe them, he said.


I had something like that happen once. Guy shows up at my door at night quite agitated
demanding I send his daughter out. I didn't know who he was nor did I know his daughter.

He was intent on coming inside, I was intent on not allowing that to happen since who
knows what is really going on.

He showed good sense and backed down.

I can't remember if I told him to contact the Sheriff or I convinced him I really didn't
know his girl, maybe it was just my tone of voice and confidence he was not coming in that
got his attention.

Yes, firearms were involved but he never saw, nor did I mention one.

Scary stuff. And, to add, I sort of understand the other side too. If,
say, my child was missing and I believed him or her to be inside some
house, I would definitely want to at least look, esp. if the person
answering was acting suspiciously for any reason.

I would think that in these instances, it would help to get the police
involved early.

By the way, many experienced serial killers are very good at producing
a convincing act and looking non-threatening.

i

In article ,
"Lib Loo" wrote:



They were looking for their 11 year old kid and went to the wrong house to
pick him up.

Might have helped to make sure they were at the right house before
forcing their way inside, eh? A small mistake, exacerbated by a large
dose of aggression, nearly got them killed.

At smart people's houses there _are_ no "small caliber" pistols for
defense. Those are for plinking and other fun activities. Serious
business calls for calibers larger than .35.

"Ignoramus3589" wrote in message
...
On 2009-12-29, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus4115 wrote:

Paul... here's a newer article...

Shooting at Wauconda home linked to mistaken address

Wauconda police said today that a shooting and alleged home invasion
early Saturday night appears to be the result of a mistaken address.

Two Wauconda residents, a 15-year-old boy and a 49-year-old man, were
shot by the owner of a house on the 300 block of Indian Ridge Trail in
the far north suburb just before 6 p.m., police said, after the two
refused to leave the residence.

Wauconda Police Commander John Thibault said the pair believed they
were picking up a family member at the home. When told by the
homeowners that their family member was not present, the suspects did
not believe them, he said.


I had something like that happen once. Guy shows up at my door at night
quite agitated
demanding I send his daughter out. I didn't know who he was nor did I
know his daughter.

He was intent on coming inside, I was intent on not allowing that to
happen since who
knows what is really going on.

He showed good sense and backed down.

I can't remember if I told him to contact the Sheriff or I convinced him
I really didn't
know his girl, maybe it was just my tone of voice and confidence he was
not coming in that
got his attention.

Yes, firearms were involved but he never saw, nor did I mention one.

Scary stuff. And, to add, I sort of understand the other side too. If,
say, my child was missing and I believed him or her to be inside some
house, I would definitely want to at least look, esp. if the person
answering was acting suspiciously for any reason.

I would think that in these instances, it would help to get the police
involved early.

By the way, many experienced serial killers are very good at producing
a convincing act and looking non-threatening.

i

I have some LEO experience. The ABSOLUTE FIRST THING TO DO is call the
police. Tell them what the situation is, and where you THINK your child is.
Then back off, AND DO WHAT THEY TELL YOU TO DO. They will probably send
officers to the scene, and someone will come and talk to you, and then take
you to the scene.

Once you walk over anyone's property line, you are putting a target on
yourself, and like these other two clucks, you might have had good
intentions, and you just get the wrong house, or it's the right house, but
she's not there, or any other combination of things that put you on someone
else's property at night making loud demands. And at night? WTF were they
thinking?

Let's say the neighbors hear the commotion and call it in. I would. I
guarantee you that the police will respond code 3 and force in hand and deal
with it as a home invasion until they sort it out, and then you will be
immediately taken to the ground by a fat cop who will accidentally fall on
top of you and handcuff you, and then either get a really good ass chewing,
citing for trespass, arrest for whatever the officers come up with, thumped
on the head, pepper sprayed, or any or all of the combinations above. You
may spend a few days in jail or the hospital IF the homeowner doesn't kill
you first.

Call the cops, people, even if you don't like them. Funny how people who
don't like cops call them when they need them.

Going on another person's property for any reason is a BAD BAD idea. People
will entice and incite you go do so, staying on their own property
purposely, and once you go in there, they got you.

Steve

Might have helped to make sure they were at the right house before
forcing their way inside, eh? A small mistake, exacerbated by a large
dose of aggression, nearly got them killed.

Our local cops did that in the middle of the night to some non English
speaking folks. Wrong address, bashed in the door, ransacked the house,
homeowner was barricaded in the bedroom with his kids, started blasting
away with a shotgun. Cops took a bit of splintered wood from the bird
shot but no one was seriously hurt, no one was charged. Police chief
gave the cops medals for their valor under fire. Mayor took the medals
back after folks pointed out that the homeowner was within his right to
blast away and that the cops did not verify the address.

What's that Lassie? You say that Steve B fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Tue, 29 Dec 2009 09:08:28 -0800:

Let's say the neighbors hear the commotion and call it in. I would. I
guarantee you that the police will respond code 3 and force in hand and deal
with it as a home invasion until they sort it out, and then you will be
immediately taken to the ground by a fat cop who will accidentally fall on
top of you and handcuff you, and then either get a really good ass chewing,
citing for trespass, arrest for whatever the officers come up with, thumped
on the head, pepper sprayed, or any or all of the combinations above. You
may spend a few days in jail or the hospital IF the homeowner doesn't kill
you first.

Or even worse, you could make a sudden move that spooks the cops and
get shot dead. Lots of episodes of COPS where I can't believe someone
did something stupid like that.
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

Larry Jaques wrote:

If they didn't have masks on, I might think it was a drug deal gone
bad. The masks clinch it for me: they weren't supposed to be there and
got what they deserved. Why he left them alive (to sue him) I'll
never know.

More range time is indicated

"RBnDFW" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:

If they didn't have masks on, I might think it was a drug deal gone
bad. The masks clinch it for me: they weren't supposed to be there and
got what they deserved. Why he left them alive (to sue him) I'll
never know.

More range time is indicated

Forensics these days are incredible. Fatal wounds would have been analyzed,
and from blood trails and such, an intentional finishing shot may be very
easy to prove.

The guys made a mistake and they are paying for it dearly. No sense to kill
an innocent (but stupid) person.

Steve

Ignoramus3589 wrote:

Yes, firearms were involved but he never saw, nor did I mention one.

Scary stuff. And, to add, I sort of understand the other side too. If,
say, my child was missing and I believed him or her to be inside some
house, I would definitely want to at least look, esp. if the person
answering was acting suspiciously for any reason.

I can fully understand that.


I would think that in these instances, it would help to get the police
involved early.

That is for sure.

By the way, many experienced serial killers are very good at producing
a convincing act and looking non-threatening.

Yup. Very good at pretexting.

Here is one I just thought up. Bad guy comes to your house, beats on the door, yelling
frantically that his wife in the car and is in labor. Good chance that door opens because
you are a decent guy and/or your wife tells you to help him.

How about my kid got hit by a hit and run driver while I was changing a flat, I need to
use your phone to call help?

Or, a cop shows up asking about something. After a bit, he says, sir, I'd hate to
inconvience you but could I use your bathroom? I'm in a bit of distress, must be
something I ate. In this case you just let a law enforcement officer a free search of
your home if something is in plain sight.


Wes

On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:48:11 -0600, RoyJ wrote:



Might have helped to make sure they were at the right house before
forcing their way inside, eh? A small mistake, exacerbated by a large
dose of aggression, nearly got them killed.

Our local cops did that in the middle of the night to some non English
speaking folks. Wrong address, bashed in the door, ransacked the house,
homeowner was barricaded in the bedroom with his kids, started blasting
away with a shotgun. Cops took a bit of splintered wood from the bird
shot but no one was seriously hurt, no one was charged. Police chief
gave the cops medals for their valor under fire. Mayor took the medals
back after folks pointed out that the homeowner was within his right to
blast away and that the cops did not verify the address.


Indeed.

Thats the leading cause of death among homeowners who are approched by
Swat and other "special cops"

The innocent home owner is awakened at 11pm by busting wood and
shouting..grabs a gun and fires on the first armed figure coming through
the bedroom door at a charge.

Sometimes the stupid cops kill both in the bed.

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

One of my favorite and obvious cluster****s..and attempted rip off of an
honest citizen is that of Donald Scott


http://www.fear.org/scott15.html

http://www.fear.org/victimindex.html


"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the
means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not
making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of
it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different
countries, that the more public provisions were made for the
poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became
poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the
more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin
Franklin, /The Encouragement of Idleness/, 1766

On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 09:08:28 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Ignoramus3589" wrote in message
m...
On 2009-12-29, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus4115 wrote:

Paul... here's a newer article...

Shooting at Wauconda home linked to mistaken address

Wauconda police said today that a shooting and alleged home invasion
early Saturday night appears to be the result of a mistaken address.

Two Wauconda residents, a 15-year-old boy and a 49-year-old man, were
shot by the owner of a house on the 300 block of Indian Ridge Trail in
the far north suburb just before 6 p.m., police said, after the two
refused to leave the residence.

Wauconda Police Commander John Thibault said the pair believed they
were picking up a family member at the home. When told by the
homeowners that their family member was not present, the suspects did
not believe them, he said.


I had something like that happen once. Guy shows up at my door at night
quite agitated
demanding I send his daughter out. I didn't know who he was nor did I
know his daughter.

He was intent on coming inside, I was intent on not allowing that to
happen since who
knows what is really going on.

He showed good sense and backed down.

I can't remember if I told him to contact the Sheriff or I convinced him
I really didn't
know his girl, maybe it was just my tone of voice and confidence he was
not coming in that
got his attention.

Yes, firearms were involved but he never saw, nor did I mention one.

Scary stuff. And, to add, I sort of understand the other side too. If,
say, my child was missing and I believed him or her to be inside some
house, I would definitely want to at least look, esp. if the person
answering was acting suspiciously for any reason.

I would think that in these instances, it would help to get the police
involved early.

By the way, many experienced serial killers are very good at producing
a convincing act and looking non-threatening.

i

I have some LEO experience. The ABSOLUTE FIRST THING TO DO is call the
police. Tell them what the situation is, and where you THINK your child is.
Then back off, AND DO WHAT THEY TELL YOU TO DO. They will probably send
officers to the scene, and someone will come and talk to you, and then take
you to the scene.

Once you walk over anyone's property line, you are putting a target on
yourself, and like these other two clucks, you might have had good
intentions, and you just get the wrong house, or it's the right house, but
she's not there, or any other combination of things that put you on someone
else's property at night making loud demands. And at night? WTF were they
thinking?

Let's say the neighbors hear the commotion and call it in. I would. I
guarantee you that the police will respond code 3 and force in hand and deal
with it as a home invasion until they sort it out, and then you will be
immediately taken to the ground by a fat cop who will accidentally fall on
top of you and handcuff you, and then either get a really good ass chewing,
citing for trespass, arrest for whatever the officers come up with, thumped
on the head, pepper sprayed, or any or all of the combinations above. You
may spend a few days in jail or the hospital IF the homeowner doesn't kill
you first.

Call the cops, people, even if you don't like them. Funny how people who
don't like cops call them when they need them.

Going on another person's property for any reason is a BAD BAD idea. People
will entice and incite you go do so, staying on their own property
purposely, and once you go in there, they got you.

Steve



Indeed. Very very well stated.

Gunner

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the
means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not
making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of
it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different
countries, that the more public provisions were made for the
poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became
poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the
more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin
Franklin, /The Encouragement of Idleness/, 1766

On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 12:39:46 -0800, the infamous "Steve B"
scrawled the following:


"RBnDFW" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques wrote:

If they didn't have masks on, I might think it was a drug deal gone
bad. The masks clinch it for me: they weren't supposed to be there and
got what they deserved. Why he left them alive (to sue him) I'll
never know.

More range time is indicated

Forensics these days are incredible. Fatal wounds would have been analyzed,
and from blood trails and such, an intentional finishing shot may be very
easy to prove.

Not if it's the second shot which immediately follows the first.


The guys made a mistake and they are paying for it dearly. No sense to kill
an innocent (but stupid) person.

In this one particular case, you're right. I just hope those 2 idiots
don't try something like that again.

My motto here is SPSB, or Stupid People Shouldn't Breed, and that's
following a firm belief in Darwinism.

--
It's a shallow life that doesn't give a person a few scars.
-- Garrison Keillor

Let the Record show that Gunner Asch on or
about Tue, 29 Dec 2009 16:55:32 -0800 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Let's say the neighbors hear the commotion and call it in. I would. I
guarantee you that the police will respond code 3 and force in hand and deal
with it as a home invasion until they sort it out, and then you will be
immediately taken to the ground by a fat cop who will accidentally fall on
top of you and handcuff you, and then either get a really good ass chewing,
citing for trespass, arrest for whatever the officers come up with, thumped
on the head, pepper sprayed, or any or all of the combinations above. You
may spend a few days in jail or the hospital IF the homeowner doesn't kill
you first.

Call the cops, people, even if you don't like them. Funny how people who
don't like cops call them when they need them.

Going on another person's property for any reason is a BAD BAD idea. People
will entice and incite you go do so, staying on their own property
purposely, and once you go in there, they got you.

Steve



Indeed. Very very well stated.

Call the cops, that's what you pay taxes for. I'm laughing to
myself because of a story I heard, decades ago, in a state far far
away. Seems that there had been a, err, business conflict over
marketing territories in the recreational pharmaceutical distribution
industry. Little Pharma, I guess you could call it these days.
Anyway, a certain Mr X, we shall call him, set fire to his
competitor's domicile. Did commit arson, a misdemeanor. Unfortunately,
his competitor was currently recovering from injuries which required a
full body cast, and was unable to make a timely egress from the
conflagration, transforming it into "Arson, a felony." But, no clues.
My friend, he calls Concerned Citizen line, and, to use the old
film noir cliche "dropped a dime on ol' Mr X." The cops came, busted
him, and sent him away for an extended vacation at a resort so
exclusive, you need a judge's recommendation to stay there. The Grey
Bar Hotel, aka the Federable Pen.
When it came out that this is what my friend had instigated, his
response was "We're small businessmen. We pay taxes. Aren't we
entitled to a little of that Policing and Community Protection they're
always talking about? Besides, this way, our hands are clean."

And so, it is always a good thing to call the cops, and let the
professionals handle things. You can be a good citizen and let them
know what is happening, but they're the ones paid to carry the gun.

And next week boys and girls, we'll explain how the bootleggers
and the church goers have a common cause when it comes to keeping a
community Alcohol Free.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

pyotr filipivich wrote:
Let the Record show that Gunner Asch on or
about Tue, 29 Dec 2009 16:55:32 -0800 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Let's say the neighbors hear the commotion and call it in. I
would. I guarantee you that the police will respond code 3 and
force in hand and deal with it as a home invasion until they sort
it out, and then you will be immediately taken to the ground by a
fat cop who will accidentally fall on top of you and handcuff
you, and then either get a really good ass chewing, citing for
trespass, arrest for whatever the officers come up with, thumped
on the head, pepper sprayed, or any or all of the combinations
above. You may spend a few days in jail or the hospital IF the
homeowner doesn't kill you first.

Call the cops, people, even if you don't like them. Funny how
people who don't like cops call them when they need them.

Going on another person's property for any reason is a BAD BAD
idea. People will entice and incite you go do so, staying on
their own property purposely, and once you go in there, they got
you.

Steve


Indeed. Very very well stated.

Call the cops, that's what you pay taxes for. I'm laughing to myself
because of a story I heard, decades ago, in a state far far away.
Seems that there had been a, err, business conflict over marketing
territories in the recreational pharmaceutical distribution industry.
Little Pharma, I guess you could call it these days. Anyway, a
certain Mr X, we shall call him, set fire to his competitor's
domicile. Did commit arson, a misdemeanor. Unfortunately, his
competitor was currently recovering from injuries which required a
full body cast, and was unable to make a timely egress from the
conflagration, transforming it into "Arson, a felony." But, no clues.
My friend, he calls Concerned Citizen line, and, to use the old film
noir cliche "dropped a dime on ol' Mr X." The cops came, busted him,
and sent him away for an extended vacation at a resort so exclusive,
you need a judge's recommendation to stay there. The Grey Bar Hotel,
aka the Federable Pen. When it came out that this is what my friend
had instigated, his response was "We're small businessmen. We pay
taxes. Aren't we entitled to a little of that Policing and Community
Protection they're always talking about? Besides, this way, our
hands are clean."

And so, it is always a good thing to call the cops, and let the
professionals handle things. You can be a good citizen and let them
know what is happening, but they're the ones paid to carry the gun.

And next week boys and girls, we'll explain how the bootleggers and
the church goers have a common cause when it comes to keeping a
community Alcohol Free. - pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey
before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

With only one minor problem. The Police have been told repeatedly that
they have NO requirements to protect individuals.

Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)
"fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents
are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police
protection,
to any individual citizen."

DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services, 109 S.Ct.
998 (1989)
"care and protection only exist as to certain individuals, such as
incarcerated
prisoners, involuntarily committed mental patients and others restrained
against
their will and therefore unable to protect themselves."

California Government Code, Sections 821, 845, and 846
"Neither a public entity or a public employee [may be sued] for failure
to provide adequate police protection or service, failure to prevent the
commission of crimes and failure to apprehend criminals."

--
Steve W.

On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:48:11 -0600, RoyJ
wrote:



Might have helped to make sure they were at the right house before
forcing their way inside, eh? A small mistake, exacerbated by a large
dose of aggression, nearly got them killed.

Our local cops did that in the middle of the night to some non English
speaking folks. Wrong address, bashed in the door, ransacked the house,
homeowner was barricaded in the bedroom with his kids, started blasting
away with a shotgun. Cops took a bit of splintered wood from the bird
shot but no one was seriously hurt, no one was charged. Police chief
gave the cops medals for their valor under fire. Mayor took the medals
back after folks pointed out that the homeowner was within his right to
blast away and that the cops did not verify the address.

I recall that incident but I didn't know the mayor recinded the
medals. I'm glad to learn that. That was a monumental screwup,
lucky nobody got hurt or killed. The cops should have been sanctioned,
certainly not decorated for failing to read their warrant correctly.

Let the Record show that "Steve W." on or about
Wed, 30 Dec 2009 01:10:23 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
Let the Record show that Gunner Asch on or
about Tue, 29 Dec 2009 16:55:32 -0800 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Let's say the neighbors hear the commotion and call it in. I
would. I guarantee you that the police will respond code 3 and
force in hand and deal with it as a home invasion until they sort
it out, and then you will be immediately taken to the ground by a
fat cop who will accidentally fall on top of you and handcuff
you, and then either get a really good ass chewing, citing for
trespass, arrest for whatever the officers come up with, thumped
on the head, pepper sprayed, or any or all of the combinations
above. You may spend a few days in jail or the hospital IF the
homeowner doesn't kill you first.

Call the cops, people, even if you don't like them. Funny how
people who don't like cops call them when they need them.

Going on another person's property for any reason is a BAD BAD
idea. People will entice and incite you go do so, staying on
their own property purposely, and once you go in there, they got
you.

Steve


Indeed. Very very well stated.

Call the cops, that's what you pay taxes for. I'm laughing to myself
because of a story I heard, decades ago, in a state far far away.
Seems that there had been a, err, business conflict over marketing
territories in the recreational pharmaceutical distribution industry.
Little Pharma, I guess you could call it these days. Anyway, a
certain Mr X, we shall call him, set fire to his competitor's
domicile. Did commit arson, a misdemeanor. Unfortunately, his
competitor was currently recovering from injuries which required a
full body cast, and was unable to make a timely egress from the
conflagration, transforming it into "Arson, a felony." But, no clues.
My friend, he calls Concerned Citizen line, and, to use the old film
noir cliche "dropped a dime on ol' Mr X." The cops came, busted him,
and sent him away for an extended vacation at a resort so exclusive,
you need a judge's recommendation to stay there. The Grey Bar Hotel,
aka the Federable Pen. When it came out that this is what my friend
had instigated, his response was "We're small businessmen. We pay
taxes. Aren't we entitled to a little of that Policing and Community
Protection they're always talking about? Besides, this way, our
hands are clean."

And so, it is always a good thing to call the cops, and let the
professionals handle things. You can be a good citizen and let them
know what is happening, but they're the ones paid to carry the gun.

And next week boys and girls, we'll explain how the bootleggers and
the church goers have a common cause when it comes to keeping a
community Alcohol Free. - pyotr filipivich We will drink no whiskey
before its nine. It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

With only one minor problem. The Police have been told repeatedly that
they have NO requirements to protect individuals.

Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. Ct. of Ap., 1981)
"fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents
are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police
protection,
to any individual citizen."

DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services, 109 S.Ct.
998 (1989)
"care and protection only exist as to certain individuals, such as
incarcerated
prisoners, involuntarily committed mental patients and others restrained
against
their will and therefore unable to protect themselves."

California Government Code, Sections 821, 845, and 846
"Neither a public entity or a public employee [may be sued] for failure
to provide adequate police protection or service, failure to prevent the
commission of crimes and failure to apprehend criminals."

They may not have a responsibility to do so, but that does seem to
be the line they peddle. That they are the ones who are trained to do
that sort of stuff, I mean.
OTOH, it is also a worthy skill to have, to be able to phrase your
situation in such a way as it not only becomes their responsibility to
take care of it. The old story of the guy on the phone saying "There
are two prowlers" and the cops saying we don't have anyone available,
and hangs up. Guy calls back and says "That's okay, they're dead
now." And forty eleven cop cars show up "right that minute"v- and the
cop says "I thought you said you'd shot them."
"I thought you said the nearest officer was a half hour away?"

pyotr

I am also recalling the story of the "exotic Entertainer"(Stripper)
who broke her arm. Decided it was too much hassle to get dressed, so
came topless under the jacket. The senior doctor pulled rank to take
her as a patient so he could treat her, efficiently.

-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:48:11 -0600, RoyJ wrote:

Might have helped to make sure they were at the right house before
forcing their way inside, eh? A small mistake, exacerbated by a large
dose of aggression, nearly got them killed.
Our local cops did that in the middle of the night to some non English
speaking folks. Wrong address, bashed in the door, ransacked the house,
homeowner was barricaded in the bedroom with his kids, started blasting
away with a shotgun. Cops took a bit of splintered wood from the bird
shot but no one was seriously hurt, no one was charged. Police chief
gave the cops medals for their valor under fire. Mayor took the medals
back after folks pointed out that the homeowner was within his right to
blast away and that the cops did not verify the address.


Indeed.

Thats the leading cause of death among homeowners who are approched by
Swat and other "special cops"

The innocent home owner is awakened at 11pm by busting wood and
shouting..grabs a gun and fires on the first armed figure coming through
the bedroom door at a charge.

Sometimes the stupid cops kill both in the bed.

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

One of my favorite and obvious cluster****s..and attempted rip off of an
honest citizen is that of Donald Scott


http://www.fear.org/scott15.html

http://www.fear.org/victimindex.html

Interesting information....and distressing.

thanks for posting

On 2009-12-30, RBnDFW wrote:

One of my favorite and obvious cluster****s..and attempted rip off of an
honest citizen is that of Donald Scott


http://www.fear.org/scott15.html

http://www.fear.org/victimindex.html

Interesting information....and distressing.

thanks for posting

Most everything I have read about Donald Scott is that the raid was
set up intentionally so that he would be likely to be killed, as
the local government wanted his land.

i

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 08:51:50 -0600, RBnDFW wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:48:11 -0600, RoyJ wrote:

Might have helped to make sure they were at the right house before
forcing their way inside, eh? A small mistake, exacerbated by a large
dose of aggression, nearly got them killed.
Our local cops did that in the middle of the night to some non English
speaking folks. Wrong address, bashed in the door, ransacked the house,
homeowner was barricaded in the bedroom with his kids, started blasting
away with a shotgun. Cops took a bit of splintered wood from the bird
shot but no one was seriously hurt, no one was charged. Police chief
gave the cops medals for their valor under fire. Mayor took the medals
back after folks pointed out that the homeowner was within his right to
blast away and that the cops did not verify the address.


Indeed.

Thats the leading cause of death among homeowners who are approched by
Swat and other "special cops"

The innocent home owner is awakened at 11pm by busting wood and
shouting..grabs a gun and fires on the first armed figure coming through
the bedroom door at a charge.

Sometimes the stupid cops kill both in the bed.

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

One of my favorite and obvious cluster****s..and attempted rip off of an
honest citizen is that of Donald Scott


http://www.fear.org/scott15.html

http://www.fear.org/victimindex.html

Interesting information....and distressing.

thanks for posting


The 1990s were the worst period of time for such buffoonery. In
fact..most small police departments had their own SWAT teams..all bent
on "control" and income generation. The vast majority of those
departments no longer have their SWAT teams..long gone and they depend
on one from a County agency..and they are much better trained.

The costs of such bull**** made them far far too expensive for small
departments to fund both in crediblity, operability, and in lawsuits
generated.

And the increased numbers of privately owned firearms has had a
significant effect on such actions. Along with the reduction of the
crime rate in the US since the 90s.

So as a homeowner..one is far safer today from both rogue departments
****ups and criminals in general.

More guns, Less Crime....has proven to be exceptionally accurate.


Gunner

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the
means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not
making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of
it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different
countries, that the more public provisions were made for the
poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became
poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the
more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin
Franklin, /The Encouragement of Idleness/, 1766

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 09:01:03 -0600, Ignoramus10756
wrote:

On 2009-12-30, RBnDFW wrote:

One of my favorite and obvious cluster****s..and attempted rip off of an
honest citizen is that of Donald Scott


http://www.fear.org/scott15.html

http://www.fear.org/victimindex.html

Interesting information....and distressing.

thanks for posting

Most everything I have read about Donald Scott is that the raid was
set up intentionally so that he would be likely to be killed, as
the local government wanted his land.

i


Correct. Which speaks volumes about the agencies themselves.

Gunner

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the
means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not
making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of
it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different
countries, that the more public provisions were made for the
poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became
poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the
more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin
Franklin, /The Encouragement of Idleness/, 1766

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 08:51:50 -0600, RBnDFW wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:48:11 -0600, RoyJ wrote:

Might have helped to make sure they were at the right house before
forcing their way inside, eh? A small mistake, exacerbated by a large
dose of aggression, nearly got them killed.
Our local cops did that in the middle of the night to some non English
speaking folks. Wrong address, bashed in the door, ransacked the house,
homeowner was barricaded in the bedroom with his kids, started blasting
away with a shotgun. Cops took a bit of splintered wood from the bird
shot but no one was seriously hurt, no one was charged. Police chief
gave the cops medals for their valor under fire. Mayor took the medals
back after folks pointed out that the homeowner was within his right to
blast away and that the cops did not verify the address.

Indeed.

Thats the leading cause of death among homeowners who are approched by
Swat and other "special cops"

The innocent home owner is awakened at 11pm by busting wood and
shouting..grabs a gun and fires on the first armed figure coming through
the bedroom door at a charge.

Sometimes the stupid cops kill both in the bed.

http://www.cato.org/raidmap/

One of my favorite and obvious cluster****s..and attempted rip off of an
honest citizen is that of Donald Scott


http://www.fear.org/scott15.html

http://www.fear.org/victimindex.html
Interesting information....and distressing.

thanks for posting


The 1990s were the worst period of time for such buffoonery. In
fact..most small police departments had their own SWAT teams..all bent
on "control" and income generation. The vast majority of those
departments no longer have their SWAT teams..long gone and they depend
on one from a County agency..and they are much better trained.

In the 1990s the Feds were handing out money and surplus M16s to LE
agencies across the country. Something about reducing crime.
So all these ****-ant suburbarn PDs alluva sudden got theyselfs a bygawd
SWAT Team!! And it's the same jerk that pulled you over last week for a
burned-out tag light!

The costs of such bull**** made them far far too expensive for small
departments to fund both in crediblity, operability, and in lawsuits
generated.

Good, I hope the settlement payouts last long enough to serve as a
constant reminder on the annual city budget.

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
news
Let the Record show that Gunner Asch on or
about Tue, 29 Dec 2009 16:55:32 -0800 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Let's say the neighbors hear the commotion and call it in. I would. I
guarantee you that the police will respond code 3 and force in hand and
deal
with it as a home invasion until they sort it out, and then you will be
immediately taken to the ground by a fat cop who will accidentally fall
on
top of you and handcuff you, and then either get a really good ass
chewing,
citing for trespass, arrest for whatever the officers come up with,
thumped
on the head, pepper sprayed, or any or all of the combinations above.
You
may spend a few days in jail or the hospital IF the homeowner doesn't
kill
you first.

Call the cops, people, even if you don't like them. Funny how people who
don't like cops call them when they need them.

Going on another person's property for any reason is a BAD BAD idea.
People
will entice and incite you go do so, staying on their own property
purposely, and once you go in there, they got you.

Steve



Indeed. Very very well stated.

Call the cops, that's what you pay taxes for. I'm laughing to
myself because of a story I heard, decades ago, in a state far far
away. Seems that there had been a, err, business conflict over
marketing territories in the recreational pharmaceutical distribution
industry. Little Pharma, I guess you could call it these days.
Anyway, a certain Mr X, we shall call him, set fire to his
competitor's domicile. Did commit arson, a misdemeanor. Unfortunately,
his competitor was currently recovering from injuries which required a
full body cast, and was unable to make a timely egress from the
conflagration, transforming it into "Arson, a felony." But, no clues.
My friend, he calls Concerned Citizen line, and, to use the old
film noir cliche "dropped a dime on ol' Mr X." The cops came, busted
him, and sent him away for an extended vacation at a resort so
exclusive, you need a judge's recommendation to stay there. The Grey
Bar Hotel, aka the Federable Pen.
When it came out that this is what my friend had instigated, his
response was "We're small businessmen. We pay taxes. Aren't we
entitled to a little of that Policing and Community Protection they're
always talking about? Besides, this way, our hands are clean."

And so, it is always a good thing to call the cops, and let the
professionals handle things. You can be a good citizen and let them
know what is happening, but they're the ones paid to carry the gun.

And next week boys and girls, we'll explain how the bootleggers
and the church goers have a common cause when it comes to keeping a
community Alcohol Free.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

My daughter while at college has a guy with watch cap beating on her door at
maybe 11pm. She calls the campus cops and they show up 20 minutes later.
She asked: why so long? They said they did not see anyone at the door and
drove around looking for the perp. She asked them, what if he had gotten
inside and was killing her? Worthless security.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 09:01:03 -0600, Ignoramus10756
wrote:

On 2009-12-30, RBnDFW wrote:

One of my favorite and obvious cluster****s..and attempted rip off of
an
honest citizen is that of Donald Scott


http://www.fear.org/scott15.html

http://www.fear.org/victimindex.html

Interesting information....and distressing.

thanks for posting

Most everything I have read about Donald Scott is that the raid was
set up intentionally so that he would be likely to be killed, as
the local government wanted his land.

i


Correct. Which speaks volumes about the agencies themselves.

Gunner

This is my first time hearing about this case. Did the government end up
with the land in the end?

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 16:26:33 -0600, "Lib Loo"
wrote:



"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 09:01:03 -0600, Ignoramus10756
wrote:

On 2009-12-30, RBnDFW wrote:

One of my favorite and obvious cluster****s..and attempted rip off of
an
honest citizen is that of Donald Scott


http://www.fear.org/scott15.html

http://www.fear.org/victimindex.html

Interesting information....and distressing.

thanks for posting

Most everything I have read about Donald Scott is that the raid was
set up intentionally so that he would be likely to be killed, as
the local government wanted his land.

i


Correct. Which speaks volumes about the agencies themselves.

Gunner

This is my first time hearing about this case. Did the government end up
with the land in the end?


No, not to the best of my knowledge.

Gunner

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the
means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not
making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of
it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different
countries, that the more public provisions were made for the
poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became
poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the
more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin
Franklin, /The Encouragement of Idleness/, 1766

I remember part of it - they wanted an internal (for the boys)
'meeting' party place. They got it, but as I recall they were
exposed for doing what they did - arranging to have an informant
say I think that house has drugs... That is all it took.
I want to say the wife was paid for it and 'let' go.

Martin

Lib Loo wrote:


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 09:01:03 -0600, Ignoramus10756
wrote:

On 2009-12-30, RBnDFW wrote:

One of my favorite and obvious cluster****s..and attempted rip off
of an
honest citizen is that of Donald Scott


http://www.fear.org/scott15.html

http://www.fear.org/victimindex.html

Interesting information....and distressing.

thanks for posting

Most everything I have read about Donald Scott is that the raid was
set up intentionally so that he would be likely to be killed, as
the local government wanted his land.

i


Correct. Which speaks volumes about the agencies themselves.

Gunner

This is my first time hearing about this case. Did the government end up
with the land in the end?