In the past week or so, somebody mentioned a drawing program he was using,
and I cannot find it again, and, believe me, I have sifted through a
mountain of dreck, as well as a lot of serious and genuine posts.

Anybody care to metion their favorite cheap drawing program?

Thanks

Flash

Flash wrote:
In the past week or so, somebody mentioned a drawing program he was using,
and I cannot find it again, and, believe me, I have sifted through a
mountain of dreck, as well as a lot of serious and genuine posts.

Anybody care to metion their favorite cheap drawing program?

I've wasted more time than I care to admit on 'cheap' drawing programs.
Rhino is inexpensive, particularly for what it allows you to do.

http://www.rhino3d.com

--Winston

Flash wrote:

In the past week or so, somebody mentioned a drawing program he was using,
and I cannot find it again, and, believe me, I have sifted through a
mountain of dreck, as well as a lot of serious and genuine posts.

Anybody care to metion their favorite cheap drawing program?

Thanks

Flash




My very favorite.

Design CAD 3d max

http://www.imsidesign.com/Products/D...FQNfFQodwCYEEA


Gives good curve!

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/draft.htm


--

Richard

(remove the X to email)

On Sep 30, 12:25*am, "Flash" wrote:
In the past week or so, somebody mentioned a drawing program he was using,
and I cannot find it again, and, believe me, I have sifted through a
mountain of dreck, as well as a lot of serious and genuine posts.

*Anybody care to metion their favorite cheap drawing program?

Thanks

Flash

For 3D, I find Google Sketchup works pretty good, and the price is
right (free).
--Glenn Lyford

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:27:48 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

Flash wrote:
In the past week or so, somebody mentioned a drawing program he was using,
and I cannot find it again, and, believe me, I have sifted through a
mountain of dreck, as well as a lot of serious and genuine posts.

Anybody care to metion their favorite cheap drawing program?

I've wasted more time than I care to admit on 'cheap' drawing programs.
Rhino is inexpensive, particularly for what it allows you to do.

http://www.rhino3d.com

I'm not Flash, but I represent all the tightwads out here in
recessionist America when I say "Winnie, Winnie, Winnie, *$1,174 IS
NEITHER CHEAP NOR INEXPENSIVE!" Hayseuss Crisco, my wallet is still
whining after that one.

I think Flash meant TurboCAD, SmartCad, Envisioneer, and SketchUP
(free versions) etc.

* Rhino $995, Training CDs $100, Visual Tips $79 = $1,174

-
If the gods had meant us to vote, they'd have given us candidates.
--------------

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 06:36:42 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:27:48 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

Flash wrote:
In the past week or so, somebody mentioned a drawing program he was using,
and I cannot find it again, and, believe me, I have sifted through a
mountain of dreck, as well as a lot of serious and genuine posts.

Anybody care to metion their favorite cheap drawing program?

I've wasted more time than I care to admit on 'cheap' drawing programs.
Rhino is inexpensive, particularly for what it allows you to do.

http://www.rhino3d.com

I'm not Flash, but I represent all the tightwads out here in
recessionist America when I say "Winnie, Winnie, Winnie, *$1,174 IS
NEITHER CHEAP NOR INEXPENSIVE!" Hayseuss Crisco, my wallet is still
whining after that one.

I think Flash meant TurboCAD, SmartCad, Envisioneer, and SketchUP
(free versions) etc.

* Rhino $995, Training CDs $100, Visual Tips $79 = $1,174

-
If the gods had meant us to vote, they'd have given us candidates.
--------------
===========
Another good alternative, is the IntelliCAD clone of AutoCAD with
some of the free lisp or vb add-ins.

I like the CMS version and find that it will run most all of the
Autocad add-ins [everything I've tried]
http://www.intellicadms.com/
stripped version is about 150$
if you include raster imaging and 3-d rendering about 210$
http://www.intellicadms.com/store/ca...ategoryID=Mg==

There are several lisp add-ins that will allow you to pick points
using osnap such as the end points and centers of arcs and will
print these coordinates on the print. If you have drawn the part
to scale this makes manual g-code programming a snap. I even
have one that I will send you that doubles the Y values for
diameter lathe programming. Simply move/rotate the cartoon so
0,0 is at a good point of origin and start picking points. Use
seperate/additional layers if the part is complex.

(If you are doing turbine blades you can ignore this suggestion.)


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:27:48 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

Flash wrote:
In the past week or so, somebody mentioned a drawing program he was
using,
and I cannot find it again, and, believe me, I have sifted through a
mountain of dreck, as well as a lot of serious and genuine posts.

Anybody care to metion their favorite cheap drawing program?

I've wasted more time than I care to admit on 'cheap' drawing programs.
Rhino is inexpensive, particularly for what it allows you to do.

http://www.rhino3d.com

I'm not Flash, but I represent all the tightwads out here in
recessionist America when I say "Winnie, Winnie, Winnie, *$1,174 IS
NEITHER CHEAP NOR INEXPENSIVE!" Hayseuss Crisco, my wallet is still
whining after that one.

I think Flash meant TurboCAD, SmartCad, Envisioneer, and SketchUP
(free versions) etc.

* Rhino $995, Training CDs $100, Visual Tips $79 = $1,174

-
If the gods had meant us to vote, they'd have given us candidates.
--------------

Two possible solutions: Marry a teacher, or have a kid in college. My
upgrade cost $95 either way.

You have to weight costs against benefits for these solutions, of course.
d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:25:23 -0400, "Flash"
wrote:


Anybody care to metion their favorite cheap drawing program?

Not my personal favorite, but Alibre is well regarded and the Express
version is free. It's a 3D parametric modeler like Solidworks,
Inventor, Solid Edge, etc.

http://www.alibre.com/xpress/softwar...ign-xpress.asp

--
Ned Simmons

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 10:46:32 -0400, the infamous "Ed Huntress"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:27:48 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

Flash wrote:
In the past week or so, somebody mentioned a drawing program he was
using,
and I cannot find it again, and, believe me, I have sifted through a
mountain of dreck, as well as a lot of serious and genuine posts.

Anybody care to metion their favorite cheap drawing program?

I've wasted more time than I care to admit on 'cheap' drawing programs.
Rhino is inexpensive, particularly for what it allows you to do.

http://www.rhino3d.com

I'm not Flash, but I represent all the tightwads out here in
recessionist America when I say "Winnie, Winnie, Winnie, *$1,174 IS
NEITHER CHEAP NOR INEXPENSIVE!" Hayseuss Crisco, my wallet is still
whining after that one.

I think Flash meant TurboCAD, SmartCad, Envisioneer, and SketchUP
(free versions) etc.

* Rhino $995, Training CDs $100, Visual Tips $79 = $1,174

Two possible solutions: Marry a teacher, or have a kid in college. My
upgrade cost $95 either way.

IF you're married AND have one or both of those options available, go
for it. I used to be able to get Adobe products for $100 as a
reseller. They divorced us. wah!


You have to weight costs against benefits for these solutions, of course.
d8-)

It's proper to buy a new tool to do a job. It's improper to buy the
horse when all you need is a quick ride on occasion. that horse costs
you a house, a car, an entire wardrobe, etc...and that's all _before_
the divorce.

--Cur, the Mudgeon.

-
If the gods had meant us to vote, they'd have given us candidates.
--------------

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news
snip


* Rhino $995, Training CDs $100, Visual Tips $79 = $1,174

Two possible solutions: Marry a teacher, or have a kid in college. My
upgrade cost $95 either way.

IF you're married AND have one or both of those options available, go
for it. I used to be able to get Adobe products for $100 as a
reseller. They divorced us. wah!


You have to weight costs against benefits for these solutions, of course.
d8-)

It's proper to buy a new tool to do a job. It's improper to buy the
horse when all you need is a quick ride on occasion. that horse costs
you a house, a car, an entire wardrobe, etc...and that's all _before_
the divorce.

Well, after 34 years, I feel I've gotten my money's worth.

Like cars, I keep them until they have no trade-in value. This is my first
wife, of course. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

Ned Simmons wrote:
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:25:23 -0400, "Flash"
wrote:


Anybody care to metion their favorite cheap drawing program?

Not my personal favorite, but Alibre is well regarded and the Express
version is free. It's a 3D parametric modeler like Solidworks,
Inventor, Solid Edge, etc.

http://www.alibre.com/xpress/softwar...ign-xpress.asp

Glad you mentioned it. I uses Alibre a lot, both
for solid model 3d and sheet metal. Here's a real
part that I designed in Alibre yesterday.

www.grumpyoldgeek.com/images/AlibreDwg.pdf

It's not cheap by Larry J's definition. OTOH, it's
saved me way more than it costed.

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Well, after 34 years, I feel I've gotten my money's worth.

Like cars, I keep them until they have no trade-in value. This is my first
wife, of course. d8-)


You have to pay for disposal on that 'car'. Better keep her, far cheaper.


Wes

Jim Stewart wrote:

www.grumpyoldgeek.com/images/AlibreDwg.pdf

It's not cheap by Larry J's definition. OTOH, it's
saved me way more than it costed.


So just want did it cost in current configuration?

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Wes wrote:
Jim Stewart wrote:

www.grumpyoldgeek.com/images/AlibreDwg.pdf

It's not cheap by Larry J's definition. OTOH, it's
saved me way more than it costed.


So just want did it cost in current configuration?

I think the pro version is about a thousand and
change. Does both solid and sheet metal and comes
with a CAM package. I haven't used the CAM package
so I can't speak for it. There is also a free version
called design xpress that is pretty powerful, but
can't do sheet metal, which was a deal-killer for
me.

Be advised that discounts and freebees are available
and the salespeople are highly motivated to close a
deal. I've gotten a couple of years of free support
and some training DVD's that way.

Jim Stewart wrote:

I think the pro version is about a thousand and
change. Does both solid and sheet metal and comes
with a CAM package. I haven't used the CAM package
so I can't speak for it. There is also a free version
called design xpress that is pretty powerful, but
can't do sheet metal, which was a deal-killer for
me.


CAM as emitting tool path? G code.

Wes

Ed Huntress wrote:


(...)

Two possible solutions: Marry a teacher, or have a kid in college. My
upgrade cost $95 either way.

You have to weight costs against benefits for these solutions, of course.
d8-)

What Ed said, Larry.

The following is gonna sound like SPAM so go on to the next subject if
you are of delicate sensibilities.

/* Begin SPAM

I wish I could sit you down in front of my computer running Rhino so
that you could experience it for yourself. There ain't *nothing* like
putting together your first few 3D objects using a tool that gradually
'disappears' and becomes part of you.

This is from the perspective of someone who is much happier learning
alone rather than in a classroom, generally speaking. There are
exceptions to that of course. I have taken a couple of Rhino's
self-paced tutorials but no 'official' training at all.

I coached a contractor buddy of mine as he assembled a 3D frame building.
At the end of his *first two hours* he had all four walls up and was
working on window openings. This is absolutely from cold. At the
beginning of the session he barely knew CAD existed.
Contrast that with the weeks of frustration it took me to make U$99.95
Generic CADD 2D do something useful. (And the day from hell trying to
get Autocad to do anything except reject commands.)

At the end of your first Rhino session you'll say "Only about a grand for
that functionality? What's the catch?" There ain't no catch.
It works real well.

I used Rhino to design this bracket to convert my hydraulic cart to
'lift it itself' functionality a while ago.

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...es/HydCart.txt
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...rtOverview.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ydCartLeft.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ydCartMech.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...artRelease.jpg

If an untrainable retarded geriatric can do that, (and I did!) then
it means Rhino is just a great tool.


By now, Rhino has lots of competent low - cost competitors.
I am long since flat out of time to evaluate them and for me,
Rhino comes the closest to the perfect CAD software.


End SPAM */


The first taste is free.

BwahHAhahaha!

http://download.rhino3d.com/eval/?p=25

--Winston

Drawing boats is not the only think I do,

But assembling something from primitives certainly won't produce a hull
shape.

Take a look here, Winston.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/draft.htm

This drawing took me two hours from starting the lines.

Do it with Rhino and compare?

Fair challenge, don't you think?

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...
Drawing boats is not the only think I do,

But assembling something from primitives certainly won't produce a hull
shape.

Take a look here, Winston.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/draft.htm

This drawing took me two hours from starting the lines.

Do it with Rhino and compare?

Fair challenge, don't you think?

Drawing the lines of a hull isn't easy, but good NURBS modelers today make
it a lot easer. Those are very nice work, Richard.

Take a look at the marine applications of Rhino. It's become popular for
drafting hulls:

http://www.rhino3d.com/marine.htm

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:
"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...

Drawing boats is not the only think I do,

But assembling something from primitives certainly won't produce a hull
shape.

Take a look here, Winston.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/draft.htm

This drawing took me two hours from starting the lines.

Do it with Rhino and compare?

Fair challenge, don't you think?


Drawing the lines of a hull isn't easy, but good NURBS modelers today make
it a lot easer. Those are very nice work, Richard.

Take a look at the marine applications of Rhino. It's become popular for
drafting hulls:

http://www.rhino3d.com/marine.htm

--
Ed Huntress




Oh man, oh man!
I have drooled all over my keyboard!

Rhino can do it.
I suspect that's professional work though.


I bought DC version 18 at Frys for $69.



--

Richard

(remove the X to email)

cavelamb himself wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...

Drawing boats is not the only think I do,

But assembling something from primitives certainly won't produce a
hull shape.

Take a look here, Winston.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/draft.htm


(...)

Drawing the lines of a hull isn't easy, but good NURBS modelers today
make it a lot easer. Those are very nice work, Richard.

Take a look at the marine applications of Rhino. It's become popular
for drafting hulls:

http://www.rhino3d.com/marine.htm

--
Ed Huntress



Oh man, oh man!
I have drooled all over my keyboard!
(...)

That's a great job, Richard.
Clearly you are using a competent CAD program.
Did you mention which one it is?

The 3D 'capture' process is very similar, in Rhino.

I've done very little 'compound curve' capturing but as you see in
Rhino's website, the tools are in place to do that stuff.

We are in violent agreement about the talent of designers
using Rhino, as well.

--Winston

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
m...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...

Drawing boats is not the only think I do,

But assembling something from primitives certainly won't produce a hull
shape.

Take a look here, Winston.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/draft.htm

This drawing took me two hours from starting the lines.

Do it with Rhino and compare?

Fair challenge, don't you think?


Drawing the lines of a hull isn't easy, but good NURBS modelers today
make it a lot easer. Those are very nice work, Richard.

Take a look at the marine applications of Rhino. It's become popular for
drafting hulls:

http://www.rhino3d.com/marine.htm

--
Ed Huntress


Oh man, oh man!
I have drooled all over my keyboard!

Rhino can do it.
I suspect that's professional work though.


I bought DC version 18 at Frys for $69

Yes, the price of Rhino is a real problem unless you have a professional use
for it. I used it for making 3D magazine illustrations, after it passed out
of its multi-year, free beta stage, and I paid what was then the full price
for it. At the time I was covering CAD for a couple of magazines and the
original math geek for Rhino, Michael Gibson, became my teacher about 3D. So
I was into it early on.

However, it's raced past what I used to do with it, and I'm really amazed at
what it can do now. If I didn't have to work I'd spend a *lot* of hours with
it. It's an exciting tool.

But there are a lot of cheaper programs around now. I'm out of touch, so I
don't know how the cheaper ones stack up against Rhino.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:
"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
m...

Ed Huntress wrote:

"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...


Drawing boats is not the only think I do,

But assembling something from primitives certainly won't produce a hull
shape.

Take a look here, Winston.

http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/draft.htm

This drawing took me two hours from starting the lines.

Do it with Rhino and compare?

Fair challenge, don't you think?


Drawing the lines of a hull isn't easy, but good NURBS modelers today
make it a lot easer. Those are very nice work, Richard.

Take a look at the marine applications of Rhino. It's become popular for
drafting hulls:

http://www.rhino3d.com/marine.htm

--
Ed Huntress


Oh man, oh man!
I have drooled all over my keyboard!

Rhino can do it.
I suspect that's professional work though.


I bought DC version 18 at Frys for $69


Yes, the price of Rhino is a real problem unless you have a professional use
for it. I used it for making 3D magazine illustrations, after it passed out
of its multi-year, free beta stage, and I paid what was then the full price
for it. At the time I was covering CAD for a couple of magazines and the
original math geek for Rhino, Michael Gibson, became my teacher about 3D. So
I was into it early on.

However, it's raced past what I used to do with it, and I'm really amazed at
what it can do now. If I didn't have to work I'd spend a *lot* of hours with
it. It's an exciting tool.

But there are a lot of cheaper programs around now. I'm out of touch, so I
don't know how the cheaper ones stack up against Rhino.

--
Ed Huntress




I bought Autocad - way back at version 10 - for DOS.
I hated it. Slow, clunky, took HOURS to print.

When I found Design CAD all that changed.
It's not Rhino, I know.
I'd like to have a chance to play with that one.

But it's awesome at 2D drafting.
Easiest to use package I've ever found.

Models in 3D - well above average for a drafting package.
(as you saw)

The animation isn't bad - as good as the animator anyway...
Example Bender Rodrigues movie that I drew for Dorothy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUWZO2HVuBA



Winston,
take a look here...

http://imsidesign.com/Products/Desig...6/Default.aspx
http://www.designcad.com/Products/Ot...5/Default.aspx

DOWNLOAD PRICE for V 18 - $49???
http://www.designcad.com/Products/Ot...2/Default.aspx

Review...
http://manufacturing.cadalyst.com/ma....jsp?id=325058


Plus - tutorial CD - $49
http://www.upperspace.com/products/training/

--

Richard

(remove the X to email)

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:38:29 -0400, the infamous "Ed Huntress"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news
snip


* Rhino $995, Training CDs $100, Visual Tips $79 = $1,174

Two possible solutions: Marry a teacher, or have a kid in college. My
upgrade cost $95 either way.

IF you're married AND have one or both of those options available, go
for it. I used to be able to get Adobe products for $100 as a
reseller. They divorced us. wah!


You have to weight costs against benefits for these solutions, of course.
d8-)

It's proper to buy a new tool to do a job. It's improper to buy the
horse when all you need is a quick ride on occasion. that horse costs
you a house, a car, an entire wardrobe, etc...and that's all _before_
the divorce.

Well, after 34 years, I feel I've gotten my money's worth.

Like cars, I keep them until they have no trade-in value. This is my first
wife, of course. d8-)

Yeah, the trade in costs are even steeper than initial setup fees. You
were one of the lucky ones. The majority of owners are far less happy.
That's why I've always rented the low-upkeep models.

-
If the gods had meant us to vote, they'd have given us candidates.
--------------

cavelamb himself wrote:

(Design CAD info)

That looks like a great program Richard.
The price is certainly right.

--Winston

On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:02:33 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

Ed Huntress wrote:


(...)

Two possible solutions: Marry a teacher, or have a kid in college. My
upgrade cost $95 either way.

You have to weight costs against benefits for these solutions, of course.
d8-)

What Ed said, Larry.

The following is gonna sound like SPAM so go on to the next subject if
you are of delicate sensibilities.

/* Begin SPAM

I wish I could sit you down in front of my computer running Rhino so
that you could experience it for yourself. There ain't *nothing* like
putting together your first few 3D objects using a tool that gradually
'disappears' and becomes part of you.

I entered a drawing to win a copy of Rhino 3D a few years ago and was
overjoyed when they called. Unfortunately, it wasn't a winner's call,
it was notice that I had not won and an attempt to sell me the
product. It looks like a great program, but I don't do enough to
warrant the price. OK, now I'll read on.


This is from the perspective of someone who is much happier learning
alone rather than in a classroom, generally speaking. There are
exceptions to that of course. I have taken a couple of Rhino's
self-paced tutorials but no 'official' training at all.

We're two of a kind here. I'm usually self-taught.


I coached a contractor buddy of mine as he assembled a 3D frame building.
At the end of his *first two hours* he had all four walls up and was
working on window openings. This is absolutely from cold. At the
beginning of the session he barely knew CAD existed.

That's amazing, Winston.


Contrast that with the weeks of frustration it took me to make U$99.95
Generic CADD 2D do something useful. (And the day from hell trying to
get Autocad to do anything except reject commands.)

At the end of your first Rhino session you'll say "Only about a grand for
that functionality? What's the catch?" There ain't no catch.
It works real well.

I'm sure of two things. First, I'd probably agree that it worked well.
Second, ain't no way in the world I'd ever utter the words "Only about
a grand", period. g If I had my druthers, I'd own a copy of either
Chief Architect or SoftPLAN for my construction business. But they're
both nigh onta $3k each. _Ain't_ gonna happen. g


I used Rhino to design this bracket to convert my hydraulic cart to
'lift it itself' functionality a while ago.

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...es/HydCart.txt
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...rtOverview.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ydCartLeft.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ydCartMech.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...artRelease.jpg

Cool! Is that a rotary-to-linear pump adaptor you built, with a small
motor to run it?


If an untrainable retarded geriatric can do that, (and I did!) then
it means Rhino is just a great tool.

OK, OK, I'm sold! Saaaaaay, can you loan a buddy about $1174?


By now, Rhino has lots of competent low - cost competitors.
I am long since flat out of time to evaluate them and for me,
Rhino comes the closest to the perfect CAD software.


End SPAM */

Ah, another satisfied customer. Oh, what do upgrades cost, or is it
one of the fantastic free-upgrade programs? I love those.


The first taste is free.
BwahHAhahaha!
http://download.rhino3d.com/eval/?p=25

You WRETCH, you!

-
If the gods had meant us to vote, they'd have given us candidates.
--------------

Larry Jaques wrote:

I entered a drawing to win a copy of Rhino 3D a few years ago and was
overjoyed when they called. Unfortunately, it wasn't a winner's call,
it was notice that I had not won and an attempt to sell me the
product. It looks like a great program, but I don't do enough to
warrant the price. OK, now I'll read on.

They would have done far better long-term to
have given you a copy. They would have made
plenty of money on support and options over
the years.

Larry Jaques blessed all and sundry with:

I entered a drawing to win a copy of Rhino 3D a few years ago and was
overjoyed when they called. Unfortunately, it wasn't a winner's call,
it was notice that I had not won and an attempt to sell me the
product. It looks like a great program, but I don't do enough to
warrant the price. OK, now I'll read on.


This is from the perspective of someone who is much happier learning
alone rather than in a classroom, generally speaking. There are
exceptions to that of course. I have taken a couple of Rhino's
self-paced tutorials but no 'official' training at all.

We're two of a kind here. I'm usually self-taught.

Autodidacticism is underestimated. I learned that all by myself!

I coached a contractor buddy of mine as he assembled a 3D frame building.
(...)

That's amazing, Winston.

Don't get me wrong. They guy is definitely smarter than I am, so it's
reasonable that he should have been able to understand the concepts faster
than I did. I still marvel at how he 'picked up' CAD in minutes
instead of weeks.

Contrast that with the weeks of frustration it took me to make U$99.95
Generic CADD 2D do something useful. (And the day from hell trying to
get Autocad to do anything except reject commands.)

At the end of your first Rhino session you'll say "Only about a grand for
that functionality? What's the catch?" There ain't no catch.
It works real well.


I'm sure of two things. First, I'd probably agree that it worked well.
Second, ain't no way in the world I'd ever utter the words "Only about
a grand", period. g If I had my druthers, I'd own a copy of either
Chief Architect or SoftPLAN for my construction business. But they're
both nigh onta $3k each. _Ain't_ gonna happen. g

It's a time or money thing.
Next time you visit someone with cable TV, I invite you to check out
the n + 1 shows on house remodeling. See how they use
CAD to show the homeowner how changes will affect the house?
Very Cool!

(Note to self: Stop Evangelizing)

I used Rhino to design this bracket to convert my hydraulic cart to
'lift it itself' functionality a while ago.

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...es/HydCart.txt
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...rtOverview.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ydCartLeft.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ydCartMech.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...artRelease.jpg


Cool! Is that a rotary-to-linear pump adaptor you built, with a small
motor to run it?

Actually, it's much simpler. That's just a small bottle jack.

I unscrewed the pad from the top and welded on a piston extension to
drive the table mechanism. I made a connecting rod to couple a gear motor
to the master cylinder. See, after I was happy with the design, I
grabbed each of the pieces and made G-Code files. The mill made all
the parts and I welded them up.

If an untrainable retarded geriatric can do that, (and I did!) then
it means Rhino is just a great tool.


OK, OK, I'm sold! Saaaaaay, can you loan a buddy about $1174?

Ya know, I wish I could.

By now, Rhino has lots of competent low - cost competitors.
I am long since flat out of time to evaluate them and for me,
Rhino comes the closest to the perfect CAD software.


End SPAM */


Ah, another satisfied customer. Oh, what do upgrades cost, or is it
one of the fantastic free-upgrade programs? I love those.

Upgrades are not free. But they are very reasonably priced, given the
added functionality. In 6.5 years, I've upgraded once and was delighted
with the increased functionality.


The first taste is free.
BwahHAhahaha!
http://download.rhino3d.com/eval/?p=25


You WRETCH, you!

Ain't I though?

--Winston

On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 10:59:31 -0700, the infamous Jim Stewart
scrawled the following:

Larry Jaques wrote:

I entered a drawing to win a copy of Rhino 3D a few years ago and was
overjoyed when they called. Unfortunately, it wasn't a winner's call,
it was notice that I had not won and an attempt to sell me the
product. It looks like a great program, but I don't do enough to
warrant the price. OK, now I'll read on.

They would have done far better long-term to
have given you a copy. They would have made
plenty of money on support and options over
the years.

Yes, very possibly so. But I seldom upgrade if I don't have to.

-
If the gods had meant us to vote, they'd have given us candidates.
--------------

On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 11:48:30 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

Larry Jaques blessed all and sundry with:

I entered a drawing to win a copy of Rhino 3D a few years ago and was
overjoyed when they called. Unfortunately, it wasn't a winner's call,
it was notice that I had not won and an attempt to sell me the
product. It looks like a great program, but I don't do enough to
warrant the price. OK, now I'll read on.


This is from the perspective of someone who is much happier learning
alone rather than in a classroom, generally speaking. There are
exceptions to that of course. I have taken a couple of Rhino's
self-paced tutorials but no 'official' training at all.

We're two of a kind here. I'm usually self-taught.

Autodidacticism is underestimated. I learned that all by myself!

Yes, I'm happy never to have remembered being lexicographically-
challenged myself. When I won a deluxe lexicography course at a
seminar and they announced my name, I was one of the very few people
in the audience (or management) to know WTF they were talking about.
sigh (Long family dinners word-jousting with a brilliant older
sister and parents helped immensely with that.)


I coached a contractor buddy of mine as he assembled a 3D frame building.
(...)

That's amazing, Winston.

Don't get me wrong. They guy is definitely smarter than I am, so it's
reasonable that he should have been able to understand the concepts faster
than I did. I still marvel at how he 'picked up' CAD in minutes
instead of weeks.

I agree. (You don't wanna know with which parts.


I'm sure of two things. First, I'd probably agree that it worked well.
Second, ain't no way in the world I'd ever utter the words "Only about
a grand", period. g If I had my druthers, I'd own a copy of either
Chief Architect or SoftPLAN for my construction business. But they're
both nigh onta $3k each. _Ain't_ gonna happen. g

It's a time or money thing.
Next time you visit someone with cable TV, I invite you to check out
the n + 1 shows on house remodeling. See how they use
CAD to show the homeowner how changes will affect the house?
Very Cool!

That's precisely why I want a copy of CA or SP. I'd even settle for a
copy of ArchiCAD 12. --(Fine Christmas present suggestion, guys.)


(Note to self: Stop Evangelizing)

Amen.


I used Rhino to design this bracket to convert my hydraulic cart to
'lift it itself' functionality a while ago.

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...es/HydCart.txt
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...rtOverview.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ydCartLeft.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...ydCartMech.jpg
http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/...artRelease.jpg


Cool! Is that a rotary-to-linear pump adaptor you built, with a small
motor to run it?

Actually, it's much simpler. That's just a small bottle jack.

Uh, I _knew_ that much.


I unscrewed the pad from the top and welded on a piston extension to
drive the table mechanism. I made a connecting rod to couple a gear motor
to the master cylinder.

_That_ is what I referred to as a rotary-to-linear pump adaptor, sir.


See, after I was happy with the design, I
grabbed each of the pieces and made G-Code files. The mill made all
the parts and I welded them up.

"Wow!" he said, bowing to the man with a CNC mill.


Ah, another satisfied customer. Oh, what do upgrades cost, or is it
one of the fantastic free-upgrade programs? I love those.

Upgrades are not free. But they are very reasonably priced, given the
added functionality. In 6.5 years, I've upgraded once and was delighted
with the increased functionality.

"Reasonably priced" from the man who thinks $1k is lunch money.
shrug

-
If the gods had meant us to vote, they'd have given us candidates.
--------------

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 11:48:30 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

Larry Jaques blessed all and sundry with:

I entered a drawing to win a copy of Rhino 3D a few years ago and was
overjoyed when they called. Unfortunately, it wasn't a winner's call,
it was notice that I had not won and an attempt to sell me the
product. It looks like a great program, but I don't do enough to
warrant the price. OK, now I'll read on.


This is from the perspective of someone who is much happier learning
alone rather than in a classroom, generally speaking. There are
exceptions to that of course. I have taken a couple of Rhino's
self-paced tutorials but no 'official' training at all.

We're two of a kind here. I'm usually self-taught.

Autodidacticism is underestimated. I learned that all by myself!

Yes, I'm happy never to have remembered being lexicographically-
challenged myself. When I won a deluxe lexicography course at a
seminar and they announced my name, I was one of the very few people
in the audience (or management) to know WTF they were talking about.
sigh (Long family dinners word-jousting with a brilliant older
sister and parents helped immensely with that.)

I have just one question: What kind of seminar was it that offered a deluxe
lexicography course as a prize? d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 1 Oct 2008 20:03:30 -0400, the infamous "Ed Huntress"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 11:48:30 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

Larry Jaques blessed all and sundry with:

I entered a drawing to win a copy of Rhino 3D a few years ago and was
overjoyed when they called. Unfortunately, it wasn't a winner's call,
it was notice that I had not won and an attempt to sell me the
product. It looks like a great program, but I don't do enough to
warrant the price. OK, now I'll read on.


This is from the perspective of someone who is much happier learning
alone rather than in a classroom, generally speaking. There are
exceptions to that of course. I have taken a couple of Rhino's
self-paced tutorials but no 'official' training at all.

We're two of a kind here. I'm usually self-taught.

Autodidacticism is underestimated. I learned that all by myself!

Yes, I'm happy never to have remembered being lexicographically-
challenged myself. When I won a deluxe lexicography course at a
seminar and they announced my name, I was one of the very few people
in the audience (or management) to know WTF they were talking about.
sigh (Long family dinners word-jousting with a brilliant older
sister and parents helped immensely with that.)

I have just one question: What kind of seminar was it that offered a deluxe
lexicography course as a prize? d8-)

Oops, rusty synapses. Rather than a seminar, I believe it was a
business faire in Sandy Eggo. IIRC from a dozen years back, the
company offering it was called Lexicon.

-
If the gods had meant us to vote, they'd have given us candidates.
--------------

Larry Jaques was heard from the next city to say:
On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 11:48:30 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

(...)

That's amazing, Winston.

Don't get me wrong. They guy is definitely smarter than I am, ...


I agree. (You don't wanna know with which parts.

Did I ever claim to be the sharpest knife in the drawer?



(...)

(Note to self: Stop Evangelizing)


Amen.


Um. (Cough) Yesss. Sorry.

(...)


Uh, I _knew_ that much.


Do you have a license for Advanced Lexicogrification or is it
just a hobby?


I unscrewed the pad from the top and welded on a piston extension to
drive the table mechanism. I made a connecting rod to couple a gear motor
to the master cylinder.


_That_ is what I referred to as a rotary-to-linear pump adaptor, sir.

Ah. Indeed. Right you are!

See, after I was happy with the design, I
grabbed each of the pieces and made G-Code files. The mill made all
the parts and I welded them up.


"Wow!" he said, bowing to the man with a CNC mill.

It's *real* casual. RT Linux driving a Xylotex card.
http://www.linuxcnc.org/

I love EMC!

Ah, another satisfied customer. Oh, what do upgrades cost, or is it
one of the fantastic free-upgrade programs? I love those.

Upgrades are not free. But they are very reasonably priced, given the
added functionality. In 6.5 years, I've upgraded once and was delighted
with the increased functionality.


"Reasonably priced" from the man who thinks $1k is lunch money.
shrug

It was about 300 as I recall. Worth every penny!

See, I played with Red Hat Linux for a few years, too.
I got *real tired* of sending them $170 every few months for support.



I love Rhino. (D'oH!)

--Winston

On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 20:00:12 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

Larry Jaques was heard from the next city to say:
On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 11:48:30 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

(...)

That's amazing, Winston.

Don't get me wrong. They guy is definitely smarter than I am, ...


I agree. (You don't wanna know with which parts.

Did I ever claim to be the sharpest knife in the drawer?



To your credit, no.


Uh, I _knew_ that much.


Do you have a license for Advanced Lexicogrification or is it
just a hobby?

I have a poetic license which I waft around on occasion. Otherwise,
it's purely hobbitical. /waft


I unscrewed the pad from the top and welded on a piston extension to
drive the table mechanism. I made a connecting rod to couple a gear motor
to the master cylinder.


_That_ is what I referred to as a rotary-to-linear pump adaptor, sir.

Ah. Indeed. Right you are!

"Oh, is _that_ what I'd made?" cooed Winnie.


See, after I was happy with the design, I
grabbed each of the pieces and made G-Code files. The mill made all
the parts and I welded them up.


"Wow!" he said, bowing to the man with a CNC mill.

It's *real* casual. RT Linux driving a Xylotex card.
http://www.linuxcnc.org/

I love EMC!

E=MC(squared). It's the law. (Ask Uncle Al) Oh, sorry. You're
talking about acronymical software. My bad.


Ah, another satisfied customer. Oh, what do upgrades cost, or is it
one of the fantastic free-upgrade programs? I love those.

Upgrades are not free. But they are very reasonably priced, given the
added functionality. In 6.5 years, I've upgraded once and was delighted
with the increased functionality.


"Reasonably priced" from the man who thinks $1k is lunch money.
shrug

It was about 300 as I recall. Worth every penny!

That's not too bad, but still... So, what upgrades/fixes did you get
for that fee?


See, I played with Red Hat Linux for a few years, too.
I got *real tired* of sending them $170 every few months for support.

Grok that, in spades. Is that where you got the "the first taste is
free" leader?


I love Rhino. (D'oH!)

We'll all send cards on your anniversary.

Carry on!

-
If the gods had meant us to vote, they'd have given us candidates.
--------------

Larry Jaques patiently intoned:

On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 20:00:12 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

(...)

Do you have a license for Advanced Lexicogrification or is it
just a hobby?


I have a poetic license which I waft around on occasion. Otherwise,
it's purely hobbitical. /waft

Hey for twelve bucks a year, that ain't bad!
Or was that a fishing license? I forget.

(...)

"Oh, is _that_ what I'd made?" cooed Winnie.

A lift by any other name, still smells like hydraulic oil.
--Winnie '08

(...)

E=MC(squared). It's the law. (Ask Uncle Al) Oh, sorry. You're
talking about acronymical software. My bad.

I heard recently that Al meant that literally.

All this time I thought he was just euphemizing.

Imagine my shock. I mean, _Damn_!

(...)

That's not too bad, but still... So, what upgrades/fixes did you get
for that fee?

I went from Rhino 2 to 4, so here are the big additions:
http://www.rhino3d.com/3/whatisnew.htm
http://www.rhino3d.com/4/newfeatures.htm

The ones I use most are the autocomplete command line, improved Boolean
operations, easily editable text blocks, enhanced display support.
Most everything else is 'gravy'.
I've noodled around with scripting but haven't done anything serious with it.

See, I played with Red Hat Linux for a few years, too.
I got *real tired* of sending them $170 every few months for support.


Grok that, in spades. Is that where you got the "the first taste is
free" leader?

Yup. "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away."
Tom Waits _Small Change_ 1976



--Winnie

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Larry Jaques patiently intoned:

On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 20:00:12 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

(...)

Do you have a license for Advanced Lexicogrification or is it
just a hobby?


I have a poetic license which I waft around on occasion. Otherwise,
it's purely hobbitical. /waft

Hey for twelve bucks a year, that ain't bad!
Or was that a fishing license? I forget.

(...)

"Oh, is _that_ what I'd made?" cooed Winnie.

A lift by any other name, still smells like hydraulic oil.
--Winnie '08

(...)

E=MC(squared). It's the law. (Ask Uncle Al) Oh, sorry. You're
talking about acronymical software. My bad.

I heard recently that Al meant that literally.

All this time I thought he was just euphemizing.

Imagine my shock. I mean, _Damn_!

(...)

That's not too bad, but still... So, what upgrades/fixes did you get
for that fee?

I went from Rhino 2 to 4, so here are the big additions:
http://www.rhino3d.com/3/whatisnew.htm
http://www.rhino3d.com/4/newfeatures.htm

The ones I use most are the autocomplete command line, improved Boolean
operations, easily editable text blocks, enhanced display support.
Most everything else is 'gravy'.
I've noodled around with scripting but haven't done anything serious with
it.

See, I played with Red Hat Linux for a few years, too.
I got *real tired* of sending them $170 every few months for support.


Grok that, in spades. Is that where you got the "the first taste is
free" leader?

Yup. "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away."
Tom Waits _Small Change_ 1976

You might be interested in a job I did with Rhino when I was at Wasino. We
were pitching Ford Motor on our lathes with the elliptical-machining gadget
for turning pistons in production. Car pistons today have complex shapes.
The Ford piston we were working on was a near-ellipse at the top, which
blended into a true ellipse near the middle, and then into another
near-ellipse at the skirt.

Ford gave us the formulas for the three shapes and I loaded them into Excel
so it would produce finite values at 36 points around the piston for each
formula. Then I loaded those values into Rhino as a script (Rhino will read
directly from Excel). Rhino blended the points with NURBS curves into a
smooth shape around the piston. And, the more interesting part to me, it
took the values of each of the three formulas at every 10-degree increment
and blended *them* from top to bottom of the piston. The end result was an
all-NURBS 3D shape.

The purpose of this was not to machine the pistons from those values, or
from the Rhino file (Ford gave us CAM files to machine the pistons), but
rather to make illustrations so we could show what we were doing.

Of course, the non-cylindrical values were a couple of thousandths here and
there, so you couldn't see it, either in the Rhino file or in a machined
piston. The reason I loaded it into Excel first was so that I could apply
multipliers to the values and play with them until I got something
exaggerated enough to see easily in the rendered Rhino file. It was
tricky -- too much and it distorted the shape beyond all recognition. But by
being able to just plug in new multipliers and then to see the rendered file
in less than a minute, I was able to adjust it by trial and error in around
15 minutes.

Ford was impressed by this and I think they adopted it for their own
purposes. Rhino handled it for us slick as could be.

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 02 Oct 2008 14:58:58 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

Larry Jaques patiently intoned:

On Wed, 01 Oct 2008 20:00:12 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

(...)

Do you have a license for Advanced Lexicogrification or is it
just a hobby?


I have a poetic license which I waft around on occasion. Otherwise,
it's purely hobbitical. /waft

Hey for twelve bucks a year, that ain't bad!
Or was that a fishing license? I forget.

Um, Netflix is $12.99/mo for two DVDs at a time. Does that count?


(...)

"Oh, is _that_ what I'd made?" cooed Winnie.

A lift by any other name, still smells like hydraulic oil.
--Winnie '08

"I am, therefore, I leak."
--Data, Stardate 23102.6


(...)

E=MC(squared). It's the law. (Ask Uncle Al) Oh, sorry. You're
talking about acronymical software. My bad.

I heard recently that Al meant that literally.

All this time I thought he was just euphemizing.

Imagine my shock. I mean, _Damn_!

The lawyers (speaking weasels) done it. Imagine no shock.


(...)

That's not too bad, but still... So, what upgrades/fixes did you get
for that fee?

I went from Rhino 2 to 4, so here are the big additions:
http://www.rhino3d.com/3/whatisnew.htm
http://www.rhino3d.com/4/newfeatures.htm

The ones I use most are the autocomplete command line, improved Boolean
operations, easily editable text blocks, enhanced display support.
Most everything else is 'gravy'.
I've noodled around with scripting but haven't done anything serious with it.

OK. Doe they track the software like eagles? Can someone who doesn't
want their copy sell it and the new owner reregister it without
gigantic fees, etc?


See, I played with Red Hat Linux for a few years, too.
I got *real tired* of sending them $170 every few months for support.


Grok that, in spades. Is that where you got the "the first taste is
free" leader?

Yup. "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away."
Tom Waits _Small Change_ 1976

Damn, the lawyers got to him, too, didn't they?

-
If the gods had meant us to vote, they'd have given us candidates.
--------------

On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 18:31:16 -0400, the infamous "Ed Huntress"
scrawled the following:

You might be interested in a job I did with Rhino when I was at Wasino. We
were pitching Ford Motor on our lathes with the elliptical-machining gadget
for turning pistons in production. Car pistons today have complex shapes.
The Ford piston we were working on was a near-ellipse at the top, which
blended into a true ellipse near the middle, and then into another
near-ellipse at the skirt.

Ford gave us the formulas for the three shapes and I loaded them into Excel
so it would produce finite values at 36 points around the piston for each
formula. Then I loaded those values into Rhino as a script (Rhino will read
directly from Excel). Rhino blended the points with NURBS curves into a
smooth shape around the piston. And, the more interesting part to me, it
took the values of each of the three formulas at every 10-degree increment
and blended *them* from top to bottom of the piston. The end result was an
all-NURBS 3D shape.

The purpose of this was not to machine the pistons from those values, or
from the Rhino file (Ford gave us CAM files to machine the pistons), but
rather to make illustrations so we could show what we were doing.

Of course, the non-cylindrical values were a couple of thousandths here and
there, so you couldn't see it, either in the Rhino file or in a machined
piston. The reason I loaded it into Excel first was so that I could apply
multipliers to the values and play with them until I got something
exaggerated enough to see easily in the rendered Rhino file. It was
tricky -- too much and it distorted the shape beyond all recognition. But by
being able to just plug in new multipliers and then to see the rendered file
in less than a minute, I was able to adjust it by trial and error in around
15 minutes.

Ford was impressed by this and I think they adopted it for their own
purposes. Rhino handled it for us slick as could be.

Great story. Thanks for sharing it. (Watch Rhino ask to use it for
their testimonial page, eh?)

Gee, Ed. The way you crank those numbers around, it's surprising that
you never made it into _politics_. gd&wvvf


-
If the gods had meant us to vote, they'd have given us candidates.
--------------

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 18:31:16 -0400, the infamous "Ed Huntress"
scrawled the following:

You might be interested in a job I did with Rhino when I was at Wasino. We
were pitching Ford Motor on our lathes with the elliptical-machining
gadget
for turning pistons in production. Car pistons today have complex shapes.
The Ford piston we were working on was a near-ellipse at the top, which
blended into a true ellipse near the middle, and then into another
near-ellipse at the skirt.

Ford gave us the formulas for the three shapes and I loaded them into
Excel
so it would produce finite values at 36 points around the piston for each
formula. Then I loaded those values into Rhino as a script (Rhino will
read
directly from Excel). Rhino blended the points with NURBS curves into a
smooth shape around the piston. And, the more interesting part to me, it
took the values of each of the three formulas at every 10-degree increment
and blended *them* from top to bottom of the piston. The end result was an
all-NURBS 3D shape.

The purpose of this was not to machine the pistons from those values, or
from the Rhino file (Ford gave us CAM files to machine the pistons), but
rather to make illustrations so we could show what we were doing.

Of course, the non-cylindrical values were a couple of thousandths here
and
there, so you couldn't see it, either in the Rhino file or in a machined
piston. The reason I loaded it into Excel first was so that I could apply
multipliers to the values and play with them until I got something
exaggerated enough to see easily in the rendered Rhino file. It was
tricky -- too much and it distorted the shape beyond all recognition. But
by
being able to just plug in new multipliers and then to see the rendered
file
in less than a minute, I was able to adjust it by trial and error in
around
15 minutes.

Ford was impressed by this and I think they adopted it for their own
purposes. Rhino handled it for us slick as could be.

Great story. Thanks for sharing it. (Watch Rhino ask to use it for
their testimonial page, eh?)

Gee, Ed. The way you crank those numbers around, it's surprising that
you never made it into _politics_. gd&wvvf

You'd BETTER run. g

How long do you think I'd last in politics? In my first debate I'd tell my
opponent he was full of ****. That's why I never tried out for the school
debating team. I knew they'd throw me out before I got through the first
round.

Know thyself. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

Ford was impressed by this and I think they adopted it for their own
purposes. Rhino handled it for us slick as could be.

That is extremely cool!

I am now much less smug about having MathCAD generate a parabola and
importing that into a Generic CADD sketch.

Thought I was hot ****, for a while.

Oh well.

--Winston

Larry Jaques murmured menacingly:

Um, Netflix is $12.99/mo for two DVDs at a time. Does that count?

Shore! SWMBO and I borrowed _The Sopranos_ from the library.
Good news is that is was virtually free.
Bad news is that previous borrowers made many nasty awful scratches
in the DVDs. Jarring, that.

Let's say you watch your two Netflix DVDs on the first day
you get them. Are you done for the month or can you return the
DVDs and get a couple more to watch within the same month?
Are the DVDs in pretty good shape, generally speaking?

(...)

"I am, therefore, I leak."
--Data, Stardate 23102.6

Must be the Harley Davidson model.

(...)

OK. Doe they track the software like eagles? Can someone who doesn't
want their copy sell it and the new owner reregister it without
gigantic fees, etc?

I dunno. That particular situation never came up but check the next
link for some good news.

They are very reasonable human beings and always treated me generously.
Ya don't have to pay full list. Please read this carefully ($195):
http://www.rhino3d.com/eduproducts.htm

Your local JC doubtlessly needs students for their CAD class.
The folks at McNeel let you continue to use your student version
after you graduate. Then you can upgrade to the commercial version
when 5.0 comes out, if you want.
Perhaps you can hook up with your JC and save a bundle.

(...)

Yup. "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away."
Tom Waits _Small Change_ 1976


Damn, the lawyers got to him, too, didn't they?

I sure hope not!

--Winston