On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many
ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound.
I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and
visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect
another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized.
I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think
about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple
solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a
brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that
springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more
elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas?

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal
and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in
order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person
but I struggle with my mental limitations.

"Tom Gardner" wrote in
:

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting
metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely
forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for
an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations.



Depending upon the individual, there may be several methods.

1. Read a good Sci-Fi book and get your mind out of this Universe.
2. Go back to basics: step through the problem incorporating the most
minute level of detail that you can envision and, then, break each step
down at least 4 times into smaller parts. This will often show up gaps in
prior analysis.
3. Before attempting an automated answer, carefully step through the
process of making 1 item manually. This may show the need for either
additional steps or an additional machine. -Then- automate it.
4. If none of these (or any combination of them) seem to work, address
the problem in reverse: start out with the finished product (visualized
or actual) and then determine what the immediately-preceding step would
have been. Repeat as necessary until each component has been resolved
back to a rod/bar/block of material. Carry out steps in reverse order to
produce more of whatever it is.

Personally, I tend to use all 4. grin

FWIW, when in doubt, my practice is to use the lowest-level of technology
that can possibly deliver the desired results when working out either a
new idea or a new item.

I've found that, all too often, low-tech can accomplish tasks (albeit
more slowly) than high-tech off-the-shelf can for the simple reason that
high-tech is simply a means of speeding up one aspect of low-tech.
(Example: A prototype can be "adjusted" more easily with manually-
controlled equipment than on CNC gear.)

BTW, there's a Fifth Method: find the laziest person skilled enough to
understand what you're looking for and hand HIM/HER the problem
(preferably with a deadline).

You can rest assured that he/she will find the easy way. grin

"Tom Gardner" wrote in
:

On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are
many ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most
profound. I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from
different angles and visualize different solutions. It seems that
some parts of one idea affect another so the ideas are not
independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized. I met with my guys
today and discussed if we could figure out how to think about
different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple
solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is
always a brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea,
the one that springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better,
cheaper and more elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas?

Don't even try to force them: they'll either come on their own or they
won't come at all.

Keep a tape/digital voice recorder handy so that when the idea -does- come
you can make a record of it that you can refer back to.

A pad of quadrille (graph) paper and something to write/draw with is
another good thing to have at hand.


Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting
metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely
forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for
an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations.

Take time to play "What If" in your head: What if we could extrude our own
wire - could we feed it directly into a machine while it was still hot and,
if so, could the cutter do double duty as a "pinch" feeder?"

Things like that.

--

I used to be an anarchist but had to give it up: _far_ too many rules.

"RAM³" wrote in message
...
"Tom Gardner" wrote in
:

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting
metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely
forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for
an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations.



Depending upon the individual, there may be several methods.

1. Read a good Sci-Fi book and get your mind out of this Universe.
2. Go back to basics: step through the problem incorporating the most
minute level of detail that you can envision and, then, break each step
down at least 4 times into smaller parts. This will often show up gaps in
prior analysis.
3. Before attempting an automated answer, carefully step through the
process of making 1 item manually. This may show the need for either
additional steps or an additional machine. -Then- automate it.
4. If none of these (or any combination of them) seem to work, address
the problem in reverse: start out with the finished product (visualized
or actual) and then determine what the immediately-preceding step would
have been. Repeat as necessary until each component has been resolved
back to a rod/bar/block of material. Carry out steps in reverse order to
produce more of whatever it is.

Personally, I tend to use all 4. grin

FWIW, when in doubt, my practice is to use the lowest-level of technology
that can possibly deliver the desired results when working out either a
new idea or a new item.

I've found that, all too often, low-tech can accomplish tasks (albeit
more slowly) than high-tech off-the-shelf can for the simple reason that
high-tech is simply a means of speeding up one aspect of low-tech.
(Example: A prototype can be "adjusted" more easily with manually-
controlled equipment than on CNC gear.)

BTW, there's a Fifth Method: find the laziest person skilled enough to
understand what you're looking for and hand HIM/HER the problem
(preferably with a deadline).

You can rest assured that he/she will find the easy way. grin


Distraction, un-direction, mind clearing
Breakdown
Visualization
Top-down/bottom-up
Simplification
Delegation

You understand exactly what I'm trying to say!

"Eregon" Eregon@Saphira.ørg wrote in message
...
"Tom Gardner" wrote in
:

On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are
many ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most
profound. I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from
different angles and visualize different solutions. It seems that
some parts of one idea affect another so the ideas are not
independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized. I met with my guys
today and discussed if we could figure out how to think about
different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple
solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is
always a brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea,
the one that springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better,
cheaper and more elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas?

Don't even try to force them: they'll either come on their own or they
won't come at all.

Keep a tape/digital voice recorder handy so that when the idea -does- come
you can make a record of it that you can refer back to.

A pad of quadrille (graph) paper and something to write/draw with is
another good thing to have at hand.


Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting
metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely
forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for
an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations.

Take time to play "What If" in your head: What if we could extrude our own
wire - could we feed it directly into a machine while it was still hot
and,
if so, could the cutter do double duty as a "pinch" feeder?"

Things like that.

--

I used to be an anarchist but had to give it up: _far_ too many rules.


Oh yea, I learned a long time ago to have paper and pen within reach at all
times.

On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 00:24:26 -0400, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many
ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound.
I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and
visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect
another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized.
I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think
about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple
solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a
brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that
springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more
elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas?

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking?

There are a bunch of methods. Consultants make big bucks devising and
presenting various silver-bullet schemes. They're all pretty much
uncommon sense but managers who never had an original idea in their
lives are easy marks for these pitchmen.

I think a very good way to do this is to identify someone who is
naturally good at it, however irritating they might be, and try to
learn a bit how they do it by observing them. Hurt yer head a bit,
have damage containment measures thought out in advance.

A key trick is not to suppress creativity. Really! If you have a
strong need to be viewed as "The Leader" or "The Mind", you'll
suppress some very creative but non-assertive folks. You've said
before that you enjoy arguments. Some don't, particularly with the
boss. Based on stuff you've written before, You might need to
subordinate self to mission to achieve what you say you'd like to
achieve, and you might have a bit of difficulty doing that. Stick
your ego in a drawer and lock it. Then be patient because smart folks
are suspicious of changes in behavior. Give it at least months.
Study how small children approach problems. There is nobody more
creative than a child. I'm not kidding! You need to adapt of course,
but little kids naturally think out of the box because they've not yet
been indoctrinated into paradigm paralysis.

Avoid PhD's. I've known a couple of very creative PhD's but most of
them had all the creativity beat out of them by the educational
process. Winning a PhD is often more a matter of endurance than
brilliance, albeit with some very notable exceptions.

Warning: creative people tend to be "wierd", and they can be hugely
irritating to some.

How do I know this? I ran a skunk works for 15 years. I picked up
talent off the layoff list, people that were regarded as
"unmanagable". My own personnel folder had a flag saying
"unmanagable". Everyone in my little band of mavericks won at
least one patent, most had several. Two of them won the corp's
highest awards for technical achievement though neither of them had
engineering degrees at the time.

I won a bunch of patents, domestic and foreign. Coupla dozen I guess.
I deliberately avoided filing any disclosures during the 15 years I
ran the skunkworks because I wanted it very clear that I was not in
competition with my teammates. I diverted my creativity toward
defending my team from bureaucratic bull****. That was fun!

I irritated the hell out ofsome folks, not intentionally but ****
happens. They chose to be irritated. Having fun was high on the
priority list for my little band of mavericks.

None of us got rich. None of us cared. Our next reunion is
scheduled to happen in a couple of weeks. Khanh Vu is coordinating.

I wasn't supposed to hire Khanh, she was a check-the-box minority
interview. I got yelled at by H.R. for actually hiring her. She
didn't speak English as well as most applicants. She'd been in
charge of a lot of stuff in Saigon, was on the last plane out with a
50,000 piaster price on her head. I liked her attitude: "no
probrem!" "OK, but how will you accomplish your assignment?" "I
don't know yet, no probrem." (You're hired!) She became a
teammate very quickly.

Take your crew out for a pizza one day and announce that you are going to
have an idea contest.

The concept here is to let the crew that sits and stares at the machinery
all day long put forward ideas to increase profitability.

Then offer to share some of the increased profits with those ideas that are
implemented and make the company more money.

I seem to recall that Henry Ford did this, and some of the best ideas came
from very surprising sources.


--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.


"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...
On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many
ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound.
I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and
visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea
affect
another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and
compartmentalized.
I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think
about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple
solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always
a
brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that
springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more
elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas?

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting
metal
and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea
in
order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person
but I struggle with my mental limitations.

On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 00:24:26 -0400, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many
ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound.
I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and
visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect
another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized.
I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think
about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple
solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a
brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that
springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more
elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas?

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal
and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in
order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person
but I struggle with my mental limitations.

Listening helps a lot. I mean really listening, not forming
counter-arguments in your mind while somebody's talking. The other
thing is to take the ego out of it. People love to talk about their
stuff if they think you're there to help instead of take credit.

I do this stuff a little, in addition to my project work. Supervision
will send me to a lab where progress is not being made, or they don't
think things are going the right direction. Mostly, I just go, drink
coffee, bull****, and convince the recipients of the "help" that I
really don't give a damn about the credit. That part's easy, because
I don't.

Then I watch, listen, and ask questions when I don't understand
something. My experience is they'll usually tell me exactly what's
wrong during the first day, sometimes the first hour. The last time,
I told them I could help, and how, designed the fix (a better
controlled tiny reactor), had it built, flew back with it and helped
them install it. They were off to the races, and it was their
project. I got out of there. Except they had some other cool ideas
so I built them some other stuff to help them get more experiments
done.

It was fun.

Pete Keillor

On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 05:11:42 GMT, RAM³ wrote:

"Tom Gardner" wrote in
:

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting
metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely
forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for
an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations.



Depending upon the individual, there may be several methods.

[snip]

BTW, there's a Fifth Method: find the laziest person skilled enough to
understand what you're looking for and hand HIM/HER the problem
(preferably with a deadline).

You can rest assured that he/she will find the easy way. grin

Probably been posted here before, but this reminds me of the following
(taken from Wikipedia):

"As Chief of the Army High Command, Hammerstein-Equord oversaw the
composition of the German manual on military unit command (Truppenführung),
dated 17 October 1933. He originated a special classification scheme for
his officers:

I divide my officers into four classes; the clever, the lazy, the
industrious, and the stupid. Each officer possesses at least two of these
qualities. Those who are clever and industrious are fitted for the highest
staff appointments. Use can be made of those who are stupid and lazy. The
man who is clever and lazy however is for the very highest command; he has
the temperament and nerves to deal with all situations. But whoever is
stupid and industrious is a menace and must be removed immediately!"


p.s. H-E was an ardent anti-Nazi.

In article ,
"RAM³" wrote:

BTW, there's a Fifth Method: find the laziest person skilled enough to
understand what you're looking for and hand HIM/HER the problem
(preferably with a deadline).

You can rest assured that he/she will find the easy way. grin

It's been said that Necessity is the Mother of Invention. False;
Laziness is the true Mother

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

In article ,
Don Foreman wrote:

I wasn't supposed to hire Khanh, she was a check-the-box minority
interview. I got yelled at by H.R. for actually hiring her. She
didn't speak English as well as most applicants. She'd been in
charge of a lot of stuff in Saigon, was on the last plane out with a
50,000 piaster price on her head. I liked her attitude: "no
probrem!" "OK, but how will you accomplish your assignment?" "I
don't know yet, no probrem." (You're hired!) She became a
teammate very quickly.

Thereby showing great wisdom. That one answer would have done it for me
too. "I don't know yet, no problem:" priceless!

On Sep 5, 12:24 am, "Tom Gardner" wrote:
On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many
ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound.
I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and
visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect
another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized.
I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think
about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple
solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a
brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that
springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more
elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas?

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal
and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in
order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person
but I struggle with my mental limitations.


One way is to take the preferred/1st method and think about what you'd
do as a backup because 'that' machine is out of service, or 'that'
process will damage the workpiece.


Dave

In article ,
nick hull wrote:


It's been said that Necessity is the Mother of Invention. False;
Laziness is the true Mother

Old story, supposedly about Henry Ford:

While Ford was guiding a visitor through his plant, the visitor saw a
guy sitting with his feet up on his desk, apparently half-asleep. The
visitor asked Ford how he could tolerate such blatant laziness. Ford
replied: "Last year that man came up with ideas that either saved or
made me millions of dollars. He's about due for another one or two. He
can sit at that desk forever for all I care!"

The old Bell Labs/Western Electric supposedly incorporated a pond and a
few boats. There were always a few boats out with guys laying back,
thinking. Wonder how many improvements came off that pond.

Tom Gardner wrote:

On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many
ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound.
I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and
visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect
another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized.
I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think
about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple
solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a
brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that
springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more
elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas?

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal
and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in
order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person
but I struggle with my mental limitations.


I don't think that can be either taught or learned, it is one of those
things that some have and others don't.
...lew...

Don Foreman and Pete Keillor have already presented excellent
recommendations. Let's look at some of the starting assumptions:

1. This is a group-think approach - everyone leaves their title and
authority at the door. Pulling rank stifles creativity.
2. The hard facts and the negotiable concerns are written on a board
where all can see. There will be no surprises at the end to kill an
otherwise good idea.
3. Courtesy and respect are obviously present. There are no "crazy"
ideas. Just write them down and move on. Each speaker has a time limit
and is not interrupted unless they choose to invite another person to
speak.
4. There's always a contrarian in the crowd. That's usually me.
Questions as to why something has to be done a certain way. Just like
a person's first day on the job. Question assumptions.
5. There is a moderator/facilitator for the discussion and it's not a
manager. It's someone who has that skill to ensure that each has his
say but no more.
6. Closure is essential. The ideas presented and the ones selected are
written and all participants get a copy. The attendees are listed. It
is a form of "recognition" for their participation.

A truly great discussion is the result of polite presentation of
apparently conflicting ideas that ends with consensus. I realize that
personalities and egos are at stake. Those get left at the door as
well. A person is not "bad" for making a suggestion or asking a
question that does not work. Just keep a time limit on it.

Tom

On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 00:24:26 -0400, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many
ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound.
I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and
visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect
another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized.
I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think
about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple
solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a
brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that
springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more
elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas?

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal
and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in
order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person
but I struggle with my mental limitations.

---- Posted via Pronews.com - Premium Corporate Usenet News Provider ----
http://www.pronews.com offers corporate packages that have access to 100,000+ newsgroups

On Sep 5, 12:24*am, "Tom Gardner" wrote:

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? *

Write out a complete description of the problem as if you were
explaining it to a new person. This forces you to examine every aspect
of it. I think up a lot of new ideas while composing postings here.

My experience was that solutions to problems often popped up after leaving
work and overnight when the day's pressures were off. I suggest having your
staff brain-storming sessions first thing in the morning when everyone is
fresh and rested (and never at the end of the day when they're tired and
just want to go home). Include the secretary and the floor sweeper;
sometimes these folks know a lot more about what's really going on than
they're given credit for.

There is a tendency in brain-storming sessions for the natural-born critics
to jump on every new idea and expound at length on why it won't work. Don't
allow this (at least not beyond the point where the identification of
legitimate considerations are being politely identified). Criticism and
censure stifle the expression of thoughts formed "outside the box".

David Merrill

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...
On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many
ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound.
I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and
visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea
affect
another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and
compartmentalized.
I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think
about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple
solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always
a
brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that
springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more
elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas?

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting
metal
and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea
in
order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person
but I struggle with my mental limitations.

Don Foreman wrote:

How do I know this? I ran a skunk works for 15 years. I picked up
talent off the layoff list, people that were regarded as
"unmanagable".
Cool! You've got to tell us more stories about this - unless
this is the kind of skunk works where you'd have to kill us
after telling us.

Jon

Tom,
This is a great question and I very much enjoyed the replies.My observations
pretty much follows the other replies, but I would like to add one other
observation. Engineers are born engineers. Universities do not make
engineers, they give engineers tool bags. If a graduate did not arrive at
the school an engineer, he will not leave as one either. Too many very
valuable people have been excluded from opportunities simply because they
did not possess a sheepskin.
Steve

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...
On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many
ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound.
I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and
visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea
affect another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and
compartmentalized. I met with my guys today and discussed if we could
figure out how to think about different ways of doing things we are
developing. I want multiple solutions presented and thinking out of the
box. It seems there is always a brute-force method of doing something yet
the "other" idea, the one that springs into existence at the odd hour, is
often better, cheaper and more elegant. How do you attract those "other"
ideas?

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting
metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an
idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an
intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations.

Tom Gardner wrote:
On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many
ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound.
I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and
visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect
another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized.
I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think
about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple
solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a
brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that
springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more
elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas?

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal
and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in
order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person
but I struggle with my mental limitations.

I won't name anybody here, but there's this guy on this group you might
want to talk to about that. He comes up with very clever and incredible
ways of doing simple things in new ways.

This is really TWO subjects: 1.) How do you think of good ideas? 2.) How
do you encourage creative thinking in others? The second one has been well
addressed by most of you. The first is more difficult. Some people
spontneously bring various viewpoints to the problem, and automatically go
into a "what if" mode when somethingt needs to be done. These same people
go into a "what if" mode when they see something being done in the same old
way. I think this is a talent, not easily taught.

The mind keeps working on a problem even when you are not aware of it--even
in your sleep. If you are not satisfied with the answer you have, don't be
in a rush. An inspiration may jump into your mind when you least expect it.
And then you'll say, "Why didn't I think of that in the first place?"

Steve Lusardi wrote:

Tom,
This is a great question and I very much enjoyed the replies.My observations
pretty much follows the other replies, but I would like to add one other
observation. Engineers are born engineers. Universities do not make
engineers, they give engineers tool bags. If a graduate did not arrive at
the school an engineer, he will not leave as one either. Too many very
valuable people have been excluded from opportunities simply because they
did not possess a sheepskin.
Steve


Boy and how. I can relate to that. Saw it for 20 years at the
Electronics place I worked at way back when. 1950 - 1979
...lew...

On Sep 5, 1:40 pm, "Leo Lichtman" wrote:
This is really TWO subjects: 1.) How do you think of good ideas? 2.) How
do you encourage creative thinking in others? The second one has been well
addressed by most of you. The first is more difficult. Some people
spontneously bring various viewpoints to the problem, and automatically go
into a "what if" mode when somethingt needs to be done. These same people
go into a "what if" mode when they see something being done in the same old
way. I think this is a talent, not easily taught.

The mind keeps working on a problem even when you are not aware of it--even
in your sleep. If you are not satisfied with the answer you have, don't be
in a rush. An inspiration may jump into your mind when you least expect it.
And then you'll say, "Why didn't I think of that in the first place?"


Tom,

The formal name for the process you are looking for is "Brain
Storming".

Books have been written on this topic and I was fortunate enough to
partake in a 'session' thereof during my apprenticeship years. Most
informative and productive. Other people I have worked for tried it
without success because of snide remarks and criticisms too early in
the process.

One of the most important points is to list all the "must have" or
"must comply" items clearly, and have agreement on these by most
members of the team. Unless this is done the flow of ideas will
constantly be interrupted with "what about this need" or "you forgot
about that spec." etc. To weed these down you can apply the "why,
why, why" method of analysis. The idea is that if you ask 'why' to
each of the three or four successive answers, you will then have
arrived at the "real" reason why things are done that way. Many
sacred cows get slaughtered this way!

Ideally the session is in a non-formal environment... a park, back-
forties, den, whatever.

Flip-over charts for writing on are necessary.

Then, solicit ideas, not solutions. Write them down. If necessary
"seed" a few yourself, this gets the flow going. MOST IMPORTANT:
ABSOLUTELY NO CRITICISM OR DEBATE IS PERMITTED during this 'generating
phase', because nothing will kill this flow of ideas faster than snide
or belittling remarks. All ideas are useful during this phase because
they stimulate the thinking of all involved that are awake:-)).

After this phase sort out the ideas, by consensus initially, in the
order of most practical/useful, to least practical, applying the
critiques established earlier. List positives and negatives for each.

Then work through them on how to implement them and the costs of doing
so.

To help generate ideas draw a matrix with problems listed down the
left-hand column and possible solutions thereto across the top, one
solution per column heading. Then each intersection can be reviewed
for applicability of that problem/solution combination using earlier
criterion. Of course there will be many "nonsense" intersections but
there can be surprising results.

Good luck with this and keep us informed.

On this team business... As head of a major corporate project team
(title changed as did management) I once took on 2 people that were
about to get fired by their respective department heads. I head dealt
briefly with each person and found them helpful as opposed to
obstructionist. To cut a long story short, after several years in my
department one of them became the chief of a new department providing
scheduling services to all other departments; The other person had
such a good offer from his former manager that he decided to go back.
I didn't mind. Of course I had a management philosophy that I
enjoyed as having applied to me (Just tell me what you need and then
p**s off until I get it done) and I found that it produced results for
me, also, with minor adjustments for the individual. Needless to say
this got me into s**t with upper management who thought that I
provided "insufficient" supervision. But nary a word about the
drastic increases in margin. That's why I now run my 1 man band.

Wolfgang

On Sep 5, 3:55 pm, wrote:
On Sep 5, 1:40 pm, "Leo Lichtman" wrote:

This is really TWO subjects: 1.) How do you think of good ideas? 2.) How
do you encourage creative thinking in others? The second one has been well
addressed by most of you. The first is more difficult. Some people
spontneously bring various viewpoints to the problem, and automatically go
into a "what if" mode when somethingt needs to be done. These same people
go into a "what if" mode when they see something being done in the same old
way. I think this is a talent, not easily taught.

The mind keeps working on a problem even when you are not aware of it--even
in your sleep. If you are not satisfied with the answer you have, don't be
in a rush. An inspiration may jump into your mind when you least expect it.
And then you'll say, "Why didn't I think of that in the first place?"

Tom,

The formal name for the process you are looking for is "Brain
Storming".

Books have been written on this topic and I was fortunate enough to
partake in a 'session' thereof during my apprenticeship years. Most
informative and productive. Other people I have worked for tried it
without success because of snide remarks and criticisms too early in
the process.

One of the most important points is to list all the "must have" or
"must comply" items clearly, and have agreement on these by most
members of the team. Unless this is done the flow of ideas will
constantly be interrupted with "what about this need" or "you forgot
about that spec." etc. To weed these down you can apply the "why,
why, why" method of analysis. The idea is that if you ask 'why' to
each of the three or four successive answers, you will then have
arrived at the "real" reason why things are done that way. Many
sacred cows get slaughtered this way!

Ideally the session is in a non-formal environment... a park, back-
forties, den, whatever.

Flip-over charts for writing on are necessary.

Then, solicit ideas, not solutions. Write them down. If necessary
"seed" a few yourself, this gets the flow going. MOST IMPORTANT:
ABSOLUTELY NO CRITICISM OR DEBATE IS PERMITTED during this 'generating
phase', because nothing will kill this flow of ideas faster than snide
or belittling remarks. All ideas are useful during this phase because
they stimulate the thinking of all involved that are awake:-)).

After this phase sort out the ideas, by consensus initially, in the
order of most practical/useful, to least practical, applying the
critiques established earlier. List positives and negatives for each.

Then work through them on how to implement them and the costs of doing
so.

To help generate ideas draw a matrix with problems listed down the
left-hand column and possible solutions thereto across the top, one
solution per column heading. Then each intersection can be reviewed
for applicability of that problem/solution combination using earlier
criterion. Of course there will be many "nonsense" intersections but
there can be surprising results.

Good luck with this and keep us informed.

On this team business... As head of a major corporate project team
(title changed as did management) I once took on 2 people that were
about to get fired by their respective department heads. I head dealt
briefly with each person and found them helpful as opposed to
obstructionist. To cut a long story short, after several years in my
department one of them became the chief of a new department providing
scheduling services to all other departments; The other person had
such a good offer from his former manager that he decided to go back.
I didn't mind. Of course I had a management philosophy that I
enjoyed as having applied to me (Just tell me what you need and then
p**s off until I get it done) and I found that it produced results for
me, also, with minor adjustments for the individual. Needless to say
this got me into s**t with upper management who thought that I
provided "insufficient" supervision. But nary a word about the
drastic increases in margin. That's why I now run my 1 man band.

Wolfgang

A couple of additional thoughts on my post above:

As I said books have been written on Brain Storming and, of necessity,
my brief illustration barely scratches the surface of this topic. But
it should be sufficient to get started on Brain Storming.

The style of many "managers" is called "micro management", and it
sucks because there are not enough hours in the day to address all
"micro crises". When I wanted a task done I explained it, asked
questions to verify understanding, got agreement on timing and
progress points, then let the man run with it. I sure as h**l did not
look over people's shoulder asking "how is it going?" or "you're doing
it all wrong!" :-)).

Every morning I'd walk around, see what was being done or not done,
ask "do you need anything?", etc. I encouraged people to come to my
office with concerns and ideas, and I believed that my principal job
was to remove all excuses people would dream up for not doing their
job. I also kept good notes on meetings, discussions, agreements,
etc. including names, dates, time, subject, & agreement / course of
action.

Anyway, it worked for me and the results spoke for themselves. Never
got criticized for the results, just the methods because it "wasn't
the way to manage things." Go figure.

Wolfgang

Tom Gardner wrote:
On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many
ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound.
I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and
visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect
another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized.
I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think
about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple
solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a
brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that
springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more
elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas?

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal
and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in
order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person
but I struggle with my mental limitations.



In my last position as a supervisor we would hold a monthly meeting with
the corporate folks. That was the typical "We need to think outside the
box" type meeting. Complete with PowerPoint profit and loss charts and
the standard "We MUST increase productivity". What got done NOTHING.

The REAL idea meetings were the ones most of the supervisors would have
within our own folks. Those were the ones where we would bring in pizza
and arrange for service coverage with other folks so everyone could come
in. Then they were told that anything goes. No formal records were kept,
unless it was an idea that actually seemed like it would work. I was
also a big fan of "Just DO it" IOW if you came up with something that
worked and made life easier spread it around.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York

On Sep 5, 3:55 pm, wrote:
....
The formal name for the process you are looking for is "Brain
Storming"....

Wolfgang

This is the informal version;
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060807-7438.html

Some truly amazing ideas show up on Frog Day. it's Junkyard Challenge
with embedded intelligence.

Another company had a stockroom signout code for home projects. I
built my first computer out of their stock components and engineering
samples. That idea probably works better in a place that's always
trying to stay ahead of the market and needs innovation.

Excellent analysis of the request, Leo.

"How do you think of good ideas?"

Let me state it another way: How does one gather the right sort of
information to feed the subconscious mind?

a. Understand the problem but don't take it too seriously. Ask
questions and listen to the answers.
b. Approach the issues with a helpful, humble attitude. Gain
collaboration with others who have the knowledge you need.
c. Do not try to sort it out mentally. Let the facts speak for
themselves.
d. Find someone to bounce the ideas against. They don't even need to
know anything about the situation.

Tom

On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:40:36 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:

This is really TWO subjects: 1.) How do you think of good ideas? 2.) How
do you encourage creative thinking in others? The second one has been well
addressed by most of you. The first is more difficult. Some people
spontneously bring various viewpoints to the problem, and automatically go
into a "what if" mode when somethingt needs to be done. These same people
go into a "what if" mode when they see something being done in the same old
way. I think this is a talent, not easily taught.

The mind keeps working on a problem even when you are not aware of it--even
in your sleep. If you are not satisfied with the answer you have, don't be
in a rush. An inspiration may jump into your mind when you least expect it.
And then you'll say, "Why didn't I think of that in the first place?"

---- Posted via Pronews.com - Premium Corporate Usenet News Provider ----
http://www.pronews.com offers corporate packages that have access to 100,000+ newsgroups

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
...
On one of my recent posts,
snip
Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting
metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an
idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an
intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations.


Could I recommend a look at:
http://www.edwdebono.com/

Many years ago I taught a CoRT course (google on Edward de Bono) to grade
5/6 students in a rural area of British Columbia - we did it for 2 years I
believe. Honestly I don't know what effect it had on the students, I can
only report on some of the results I saw. One of the lessons had the
question "What would it be like if all the cars in the world were painted
yellow?" and the students, in their groups of about 5 (including one
acting as recorder) had to voice all their ideas under the headings "Good,
Bad, Interesting". I imagine many of you could come up with similar
answers to those which the students brought out(remember - grade 5/6);
however one student thought, under Interesting, that it "would sure make
funerals brighter and cheerier". Not a particularly bright student at
that. Similar rules to those mentioned in other posts - no "Man, that's
stupid", no putting down, all ideas are valid initially. My recollection
is that in the example above there were over 60 DIFFERENT responses out of
a class of 24 kiddies. Unfortunately things changed and the idea of
actually teaching thinking was dropped by the wayside. I would tell the
English and Social Studies teachers especially, what we were looking at
each week and encourage them to use that as a basis for their class
assignments. eg. OPV (other people's viewpoint), perhaps you're teaching
the settling of the West, give the kids an assignment perhaps "You're a
Cree from Saskatchewan and you hear about these 'blue eyes' coming - what
is your response to this?" You see the point. Hard to get other teachers
to get into this though, and that's where I feel I missed out - and the
kids. So, yes! there are formal methods to help you think differently,
much more fun (now there's a mis-used word) in a group though.
HTH, Mike
in BC

On Sep 5, 4:31 pm, "Steve W." wrote:
Tom Gardner wrote:
On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many
ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound.
I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and
visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect
another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized.
I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think
about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple
solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a
brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that
springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more
elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas?

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal
and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in
order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person
but I struggle with my mental limitations.

In my last position as a supervisor we would hold a monthly meeting with
the corporate folks. That was the typical "We need to think outside the
box" type meeting. Complete with PowerPoint profit and loss charts and
the standard "We MUST increase productivity". What got done NOTHING.

The REAL idea meetings were the ones most of the supervisors would have
within our own folks. Those were the ones where we would bring in pizza
and arrange for service coverage with other folks so everyone could come
in. Then they were told that anything goes. No formal records were kept,
unless it was an idea that actually seemed like it would work. I was
also a big fan of "Just DO it" IOW if you came up with something that
worked and made life easier spread it around.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York



Steve:

Good ideas and cost saving measures from the rank-and-file? NEVER!!
Perish that thought!!

In my experience by far the biggest cost-saving ideas and improvement
suggestions came from first-line supervisory staff. In well-managed
corporations these folks really know what they are doing.

Wolfgang

In article ,
"Tom Gardner" wrote:

On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many
ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound.
I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and
visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect
another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized.
I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think
about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple
solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a
brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that
springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more
elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas?

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal
and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in
order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person
but I struggle with my mental limitations.

There are many brainstorming methods, and most of them can work.

The problem is usually deeper - fear of failure, fear of looking stupid.
And 90% of good-looking ideas nonetheless fail, so the fear is not
unreasonable.

As the boss-man, you shape the culture, but fine speeches won't do it.

What I've done in similar circumstances is to redefine success and
failure by stating from the outset that I expect the first attempt to
fail, but hope that it will yield much information that will inform the
second attempt, and so on.

Reducing the perceived reputation cost of failure increases people's
willingness to try new things.

Public praise and reward for good ideas also helps.

However, people will not really believe you until after the first
failure. They will be watching like hawks for the slightest hint of
displeasure, the slightest twitch or flash, and they know you very well.
Smile and talk only about how much has been learned, and what the next
attempt will look like. Otherwise, it will all be for naught.

Joe Gwinn

On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 00:24:26 -0400, "Tom Gardner" wrote:


Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal
and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in
order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person
but I struggle with my mental limitations.



The only way I suspect that works is to arrange a contract on all of my senior
management. I'm almost as tired of telling them "I told you so" as they are of
hearing it!


Mark Rand
RTFM

If you are feeling low on creativity, there is a few techniques that
can easily compensate and help a lot.

Here are some.

1. Gather more data to get a better decision
2. Consider things systematically, without missing possibilities or
making unproven assumptions.
3. Try various things instead of assuming that only one will work
4. Think about you problem more intensively.
5. To not dismiss things as too difficult too quickly

i

Hi, Tom.
I read your post early this afternoon and have thought about it a lot
since. I believe I am a creative thinker, at least I was in the
computer software area and perhaps can shed some light from my
experience. I think still have some creative problem solving ability
left after 34 years in the computer industry.

From my experience, the key is knowing in detail and in depth the
tools and material you have to work with. Without knowing and
understanding how a computer language functioned, how an operating
system worked, what the limits and options were, I would not be able
to create new solutions to solve someone's problems or create a
totally new product.

What background do you and your people have? Is there educational
facilities available educate on metalurgy, chemistry, physics? Are you
willing to pay your people to attend? Are you and your people fluent
in geometry, algebra and trig? Do you and your people really,
thoroughly know the functions and limits of your equipment? Do your
people have access to magazines relating to the industry? Do they have
personal copies? Are they in the bathroom? Can you get vendor salesmen
and technical people in to hold seminars. You don't HAVE to buy! Are
there any professional organizations in your area that you or your
people can attend? Have you or your people ever attend an industry
related vendor show?

In other words, you have to have the tools to think outside the box.

Do you give credit to the person actually providing the idea you use?
Do you have an employee that steals others ideas and calls them his
own? This will stop creativity immediately. Do you offer rewards for
ideas and then screw the person offering the idea? I recall a guy who
used to be a field engineer (repairman) for a major computer
manufacturer. The company offered a reward of 10% of the annual saving
to anyone in the company who came up with valid viable ways to save
the company money. Well, Dale did and the savings for the company was
a LOT of money. When asked about where the reward was, he was told his
idea was "obvious" and they would not pay. Needless to say, the word
quickly got around and the idea submissions stopped.

All the other postings are great and I hope you are able to move the
company along and make a lot of money doing it.

Best regards,
Paul Drahn, President
Jodeco, Inc.
Redmond, OR




On Sep 4, 9:24*pm, "Tom Gardner" wrote:
....snip...
.. *How do you attract those "other" ideas?

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? *Cutting metal
and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in
order to "see" a new idea? *This may come easily for an intelligent person
but I struggle with my mental limitations.

On Sat, 06 Sep 2008 00:59:47 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 00:24:26 -0400, "Tom Gardner" wrote:

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal
and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in
order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person
but I struggle with my mental limitations.

The only way I suspect that works is to arrange a contract on all of my senior
management. I'm almost as tired of telling them "I told you so" as they are of
hearing it!

Mark Rand
RTFM
=============
This is a typical problem in large "mature" organizations.

It is correctly observed that you manage "things," but lead
"people."

Almost by definition, management is the preservation of the
status quo, and to this end policy and procedures manuals are
written, forms designed, committees created, etc. It is not
reasonable [or even rational] to expect people selected for,
trained for, and tasked with and maintaining the status quo [i.e.
managers] to exhibit creativity and innovation, spontaneously or
otherwise.

In most organizations, in spite of extensive lip service, there
are no incentives for creativity and innovation at any level,
worker or managerial, but draconian penalties for "mistakes," and
any exceptions are like winning the lottery.

As several people have mentioned, the professional seminars on
creativity/innovation do not seem to have any demonstrable
long-term organizational effect, and indeed why should they?

== A word of warning == -- don't read the books and then run
into work and attempt to put into practice what you just read,
except at the most private and personal levels. Just posing
these types of questions shows you want "to change things" and
identifies you are a latent "trouble maker." Any attempt at
overt creativity/innovation implementation [i.e. change aka
"rocking the boat"], particularly if it involves other employees,
simply proves management's case.

some places you might start:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...llowyourdreams
http://www.amazon.com/Thinkertoys-Ha...ref=pd_sim_b_3
http://www.amazon.com/Cracking-Creat...ref=pd_sim_b_4

As a very wise man once told me "*NEVER* try to teach a pig how
to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig."

"Ignoramus29627" wrote in message
...
If you are feeling low on creativity, there is a few techniques that
can easily compensate and help a lot.

Here are some.

1. Gather more data to get a better decision
2. Consider things systematically, without missing possibilities or
making unproven assumptions.
3. Try various things instead of assuming that only one will work
4. Think about you problem more intensively.
5. To not dismiss things as too difficult too quickly

i

Bada-boom, bada-bing!

"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
news
This is really TWO subjects: 1.) How do you think of good ideas? 2.)
How do you encourage creative thinking in others? The second one has been
well addressed by most of you. The first is more difficult. Some people
spontneously bring various viewpoints to the problem, and automatically go
into a "what if" mode when somethingt needs to be done. These same people
go into a "what if" mode when they see something being done in the same
old way. I think this is a talent, not easily taught.

The mind keeps working on a problem even when you are not aware of
it--even in your sleep. If you are not satisfied with the answer you
have, don't be in a rush. An inspiration may jump into your mind when you
least expect it. And then you'll say, "Why didn't I think of that in the
first place?"


We had been trying to come up with a way of producing "ring and flange" wire
wheel brushes for over 30 years, that includes my uncles who were geniuses
in their own rights. One afternoon in Canada, while fishing in a small boat
in a torrential downpour. I was snug in my Gor-Tex and I couldn't see my
buddy that was five feet away, never before or since have I seen it rain
that hard. For some reason, the method of making those brushes popped into
my head in absolute clarity. The machine is so simple and robust, and it
was inexpensive to build. Why didn't I think of that in the first place?

wrote in message
...
On Sep 5, 3:55 pm, wrote:
On Sep 5, 1:40 pm, "Leo Lichtman" wrote:

This is really TWO subjects: 1.) How do you think of good ideas? 2.)
How
do you encourage creative thinking in others? The second one has been
well
addressed by most of you. The first is more difficult. Some people
spontneously bring various viewpoints to the problem, and automatically
go
into a "what if" mode when somethingt needs to be done. These same
people
go into a "what if" mode when they see something being done in the same
old
way. I think this is a talent, not easily taught.

The mind keeps working on a problem even when you are not aware of
it--even
in your sleep. If you are not satisfied with the answer you have,
don't be
in a rush. An inspiration may jump into your mind when you least
expect it.
And then you'll say, "Why didn't I think of that in the first place?"

Tom,

The formal name for the process you are looking for is "Brain
Storming".

Books have been written on this topic and I was fortunate enough to
partake in a 'session' thereof during my apprenticeship years. Most
informative and productive. Other people I have worked for tried it
without success because of snide remarks and criticisms too early in
the process.

One of the most important points is to list all the "must have" or
"must comply" items clearly, and have agreement on these by most
members of the team. Unless this is done the flow of ideas will
constantly be interrupted with "what about this need" or "you forgot
about that spec." etc. To weed these down you can apply the "why,
why, why" method of analysis. The idea is that if you ask 'why' to
each of the three or four successive answers, you will then have
arrived at the "real" reason why things are done that way. Many
sacred cows get slaughtered this way!

Ideally the session is in a non-formal environment... a park, back-
forties, den, whatever.

Flip-over charts for writing on are necessary.

Then, solicit ideas, not solutions. Write them down. If necessary
"seed" a few yourself, this gets the flow going. MOST IMPORTANT:
ABSOLUTELY NO CRITICISM OR DEBATE IS PERMITTED during this 'generating
phase', because nothing will kill this flow of ideas faster than snide
or belittling remarks. All ideas are useful during this phase because
they stimulate the thinking of all involved that are awake:-)).

After this phase sort out the ideas, by consensus initially, in the
order of most practical/useful, to least practical, applying the
critiques established earlier. List positives and negatives for each.

Then work through them on how to implement them and the costs of doing
so.

To help generate ideas draw a matrix with problems listed down the
left-hand column and possible solutions thereto across the top, one
solution per column heading. Then each intersection can be reviewed
for applicability of that problem/solution combination using earlier
criterion. Of course there will be many "nonsense" intersections but
there can be surprising results.

Good luck with this and keep us informed.

On this team business... As head of a major corporate project team
(title changed as did management) I once took on 2 people that were
about to get fired by their respective department heads. I head dealt
briefly with each person and found them helpful as opposed to
obstructionist. To cut a long story short, after several years in my
department one of them became the chief of a new department providing
scheduling services to all other departments; The other person had
such a good offer from his former manager that he decided to go back.
I didn't mind. Of course I had a management philosophy that I
enjoyed as having applied to me (Just tell me what you need and then
p**s off until I get it done) and I found that it produced results for
me, also, with minor adjustments for the individual. Needless to say
this got me into s**t with upper management who thought that I
provided "insufficient" supervision. But nary a word about the
drastic increases in margin. That's why I now run my 1 man band.

Wolfgang

A couple of additional thoughts on my post above:

As I said books have been written on Brain Storming and, of necessity,
my brief illustration barely scratches the surface of this topic. But
it should be sufficient to get started on Brain Storming.

The style of many "managers" is called "micro management", and it
sucks because there are not enough hours in the day to address all
"micro crises". When I wanted a task done I explained it, asked
questions to verify understanding, got agreement on timing and
progress points, then let the man run with it. I sure as h**l did not
look over people's shoulder asking "how is it going?" or "you're doing
it all wrong!" :-)).

Every morning I'd walk around, see what was being done or not done,
ask "do you need anything?", etc. I encouraged people to come to my
office with concerns and ideas, and I believed that my principal job
was to remove all excuses people would dream up for not doing their
job. I also kept good notes on meetings, discussions, agreements,
etc. including names, dates, time, subject, & agreement / course of
action.

Anyway, it worked for me and the results spoke for themselves. Never
got criticized for the results, just the methods because it "wasn't
the way to manage things." Go figure.

Wolfgang

Fascinating! Thanks.

Tom Gardner wrote:

"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message
news
This is really TWO subjects: 1.) How do you think of good ideas? 2.)
How do you encourage creative thinking in others? The second one has been
well addressed by most of you. The first is more difficult. Some people
spontneously bring various viewpoints to the problem, and automatically go
into a "what if" mode when somethingt needs to be done. These same people
go into a "what if" mode when they see something being done in the same
old way. I think this is a talent, not easily taught.

The mind keeps working on a problem even when you are not aware of
it--even in your sleep. If you are not satisfied with the answer you
have, don't be in a rush. An inspiration may jump into your mind when you
least expect it. And then you'll say, "Why didn't I think of that in the
first place?"


We had been trying to come up with a way of producing "ring and flange" wire
wheel brushes for over 30 years, that includes my uncles who were geniuses
in their own rights. One afternoon in Canada, while fishing in a small boat
in a torrential downpour. I was snug in my Gor-Tex and I couldn't see my
buddy that was five feet away, never before or since have I seen it rain
that hard. For some reason, the method of making those brushes popped into
my head in absolute clarity. The machine is so simple and robust, and it
was inexpensive to build. Why didn't I think of that in the first place?


The time wasn't right. You had to learn enough about the process for
it to become crystal clear in your mind.

Everything looks simple, when you know what you're doing! ;-)


--
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There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

wrote in message
...
On Sep 5, 4:31 pm, "Steve W." wrote:
Tom Gardner wrote:
On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are
many
ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most
profound.
I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles
and
visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea
affect
another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and
compartmentalized.
I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to
think
about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want
multiple
solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is
always a
brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one
that
springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and
more
elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas?

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting
metal
and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an
idea in
order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent
person
but I struggle with my mental limitations.

In my last position as a supervisor we would hold a monthly meeting with
the corporate folks. That was the typical "We need to think outside the
box" type meeting. Complete with PowerPoint profit and loss charts and
the standard "We MUST increase productivity". What got done NOTHING.

The REAL idea meetings were the ones most of the supervisors would have
within our own folks. Those were the ones where we would bring in pizza
and arrange for service coverage with other folks so everyone could come
in. Then they were told that anything goes. No formal records were kept,
unless it was an idea that actually seemed like it would work. I was
also a big fan of "Just DO it" IOW if you came up with something that
worked and made life easier spread it around.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York



Steve:

Good ideas and cost saving measures from the rank-and-file? NEVER!!
Perish that thought!!

In my experience by far the biggest cost-saving ideas and improvement
suggestions came from first-line supervisory staff. In well-managed
corporations these folks really know what they are doing.

Wolfgang

We find that input from the floor is the impetus to address a problem or
potential improvement. They have the advantage of not knowing the details
involved, they just want less problems and more bonus.

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Tom Gardner" wrote:

On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are
many
ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most
profound.
I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and
visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea
affect
another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and
compartmentalized.
I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to
think
about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple
solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is
always a
brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that
springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more
elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas?

Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting
metal
and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea
in
order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent
person
but I struggle with my mental limitations.

There are many brainstorming methods, and most of them can work.

The problem is usually deeper - fear of failure, fear of looking stupid.
And 90% of good-looking ideas nonetheless fail, so the fear is not
unreasonable.

As the boss-man, you shape the culture, but fine speeches won't do it.

What I've done in similar circumstances is to redefine success and
failure by stating from the outset that I expect the first attempt to
fail, but hope that it will yield much information that will inform the
second attempt, and so on.

Reducing the perceived reputation cost of failure increases people's
willingness to try new things.

Public praise and reward for good ideas also helps.

However, people will not really believe you until after the first
failure. They will be watching like hawks for the slightest hint of
displeasure, the slightest twitch or flash, and they know you very well.
Smile and talk only about how much has been learned, and what the next
attempt will look like. Otherwise, it will all be for naught.

Joe Gwinn

One of the biggest advantages of Solidworks is that one can develop the
first four failures without cutting a single chip. We find that each idea
begets the next. The downside is that one must start with a blank screen
every so often to "freshen" the mind.