A thread got started on the bandsaw group regarding coldsaws and the
pseudo-coldsaws such as these;

http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/to...?categoryID=88
http://www.milwaukeeconnect.com/weba...131_189330_362

Can someone who has experience with coldsaws please explain how these
differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
to true coldsaws?

Thanks,

Dave

Can someone who has experience with coldsaws please explain how these
differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
to true coldsaws?

Thanks,

Dave

Night and day.
The first thing to look at with any machine tool is the weight- this
tells you a lot, and is particularly informative in this case.
First, consider a standard $150 abrasive chop saw- 40 pounds or so.
With a 15 amp motor, which "develops" 3 hp? so they say, actually
probably more like 1/2hp.

Then, one of these new hybrid saws, with the carbide blade- the dewalt
is 47lbs, with again a 15 amp motor rated at "4 hp".

Sorry, Homey just doesnt believe the horsepower ratings.

Now look at a real coldsaw, like this Doringer- 780 lbs, and an honest
3hp 3phase motor.
http://www.doringer.com/d350.htm

The stamped steel base of the Multicutter is no match for the 500lb
piece of iron that is the base of the cold saw. The vise alone weighs
more than the whole Dewalt. The biggest problem with little stamped
steel vises with 1/2" thread screws is the cutting motion of the blade,
when cutting a miter, is doing its best to pull the workpiece sideways-
so you get funky, off angle cuts, inaccurate and crooked.
The big vise on a cold saw holds the material rigidly in place. The
Cast iron swivel base, which is engraved with degree marks, is quick
and easy to get exactly the angle you want, and then it stays there.

Constant coolant flow makes for no Heat Affected Zone, parts that can
be handled right away, clean cuts, minimum burr.

Cold saw blades last years- I have 2 for my saw, so one is always
sharp, then I send the other, UPS, off to be resharpened, for 30 bucks
or so. In heavy duty shop use, 3 guys full time, a blade can last 6
months to a year between sharpenings, on mild steel.
Yes, the blades are expensive, $165 for my size, (350 mmm) but I seldom
have to buy one. A gallon of coolant lasts years- you mix it something
like 20 to 1 with water.

I cut 2" solid square, or 1/4" round, with equal precision. The blade
speed is so slow, at about 44 rpm, that the danger is minimal- sure,
you can hurt yourself with any tool, but the difference in danger level
between a 2000 rpm carbide blade, and a 44 rpm steel blade- well, the
cold saw will hardly cut thru your glove if you brush up against the
spinning blade- try that with a Dewalt, and you will be counting to ten
using your feet.

As you can tell, I am sold on cold saws. I bought mine used for a
grand, almost 15 years ago. No problems with it in all that time,
except when an overenthusiastic employee actually snapped the 3/4"
diameter, 2 foot long saw handle off at the threads, by pulling down
too hard while cutting steel. No damage to the blade, or the saw, but
the handle broke- this is a testament to the way these things are
built.
Mine is a Haberle, made in Germany, but I understand most of the
current brands are similar highquality German, Dutch, or Italian saws.
Doringers are made in the US.

Yes, they cost a lot more.
But they are built like tanks, and will outlive you. So if you are
planning on making things from metal for any period of time, they will
pay for themselves in the end.

I have used a dry cut saw for a handrailing project where the inserted
panels were one inch angle quarter inch thick. The advantage to the saw
was that we could make extremely acute angle cuts less than 30 degrees.
We did hundreds of feet of panels. The original pile of twenty footers
would total something like three or four thousand feet. We used the same
blade for the job. By the end it was getting slow to cut but that was weeks
of use eight hours a day. The thing was noisy but gave relatively burr free
cuts compared to an abrasive saw. It is relatively portable running on 110
volts.
If I remember the company paid around 500 dollars Canadian for the unit
in the late nineties. The motor will eventually burn out since they are
light duty and high speed.
The normal way to cut in the handrail department was using a cold saw
which had a carbide blade moving at around 100 rpm max. The coolant
recirculated.
The cuts were about as fast as an abrasive chop saw but quieter and burr
free. The accuracy of the cuts was dead on since a proper cold saw is more
like a machine tool being very rigid. One saw had a carbide blade and was
used by the handrail guy. The other machine had a HSS blade. It was more
forgiving if abused so it was for general use. These machines were wired
for three phase power. A new unit would cost anywhere from 2500 to 5000
dollars depending on brand, quality and options. Life span if maintained
properly is in the decades. A large band saw with tilting frame would cut
faster but then you are way over the ten thousand dollar mark.
Randy


"Dave" wrote in message
oups.com...
A thread got started on the bandsaw group regarding coldsaws and the
pseudo-coldsaws such as these;

http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/to...?categoryID=88
http://www.milwaukeeconnect.com/weba...uct3_27_40027_
-1_278586_281131_189330_362

Can someone who has experience with coldsaws please explain how these
differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
to true coldsaws?

Thanks,

Dave

On 27 Apr 2006 16:51:33 -0700, wrote:


Can someone who has experience with coldsaws please explain how these
differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
to true coldsaws?

Thanks,

Dave

Night and day.
The first thing to look at with any machine tool is the weight- this
tells you a lot, and is particularly informative in this case.
First, consider a standard $150 abrasive chop saw- 40 pounds or so.
With a 15 amp motor, which "develops" 3 hp? so they say, actually
probably more like 1/2hp.

Then, one of these new hybrid saws, with the carbide blade- the dewalt
is 47lbs, with again a 15 amp motor rated at "4 hp".

Sorry, Homey just doesnt believe the horsepower ratings.

Now look at a real coldsaw, like this Doringer- 780 lbs, and an honest
3hp 3phase motor.
http://www.doringer.com/d350.htm

The stamped steel base of the Multicutter is no match for the 500lb
piece of iron that is the base of the cold saw. The vise alone weighs
more than the whole Dewalt. The biggest problem with little stamped
steel vises with 1/2" thread screws is the cutting motion of the blade,
when cutting a miter, is doing its best to pull the workpiece sideways-
so you get funky, off angle cuts, inaccurate and crooked.
The big vise on a cold saw holds the material rigidly in place. The
Cast iron swivel base, which is engraved with degree marks, is quick
and easy to get exactly the angle you want, and then it stays there.

Constant coolant flow makes for no Heat Affected Zone, parts that can
be handled right away, clean cuts, minimum burr.

Cold saw blades last years- I have 2 for my saw, so one is always
sharp, then I send the other, UPS, off to be resharpened, for 30 bucks
or so. In heavy duty shop use, 3 guys full time, a blade can last 6
months to a year between sharpenings, on mild steel.
Yes, the blades are expensive, $165 for my size, (350 mmm) but I seldom
have to buy one. A gallon of coolant lasts years- you mix it something
like 20 to 1 with water.

I cut 2" solid square, or 1/4" round, with equal precision. The blade
speed is so slow, at about 44 rpm, that the danger is minimal- sure,
you can hurt yourself with any tool, but the difference in danger level
between a 2000 rpm carbide blade, and a 44 rpm steel blade- well, the
cold saw will hardly cut thru your glove if you brush up against the
spinning blade- try that with a Dewalt, and you will be counting to ten
using your feet.

As you can tell, I am sold on cold saws. I bought mine used for a
grand, almost 15 years ago. No problems with it in all that time,
except when an overenthusiastic employee actually snapped the 3/4"
diameter, 2 foot long saw handle off at the threads, by pulling down
too hard while cutting steel. No damage to the blade, or the saw, but
the handle broke- this is a testament to the way these things are
built.
Mine is a Haberle, made in Germany, but I understand most of the
current brands are similar highquality German, Dutch, or Italian saws.
Doringers are made in the US.

Yes, they cost a lot more.
But they are built like tanks, and will outlive you. So if you are
planning on making things from metal for any period of time, they will
pay for themselves in the end.
I use bandsaws for all my saw cuts. These saws also cut cold. And a
wide variety of materials can be cut just by changing blade speeds and
the type of blade. But I'm interested in cold saws. I've seen them
work on TV and they seem to cut pretty fast. How long does it take
your saw to cut through 2 inch mild steel round?
Thanks,
Eric

I'm not sure why they're called "cold"--some are set up for coolant.

But I've used a couple of types--very high rpm hydraulic *screamers*, w/
spray coolant, and very low rpm (Thomas MonDial ) 2-spd jobbies. I think
both are called cold saws, not sure.

The low rpm Thomas can go thru 2" round in a few minutes--def'ly slower than
the automatic Kalamazoo horz'l band saw (1" blade), but much cleaner, more
accurate cuts, to within a few thou when properly stopped. Almost do not
need to face the cut!

The vises tighten "on center"--very high quality, very heavy, as rniemi
said.

I loved the one in the shop, but don't know if everyone could really benefit
from one, even tho they are beautiful tools. The manual ones are simpler to
use than a hydraulic band saw, quiet, etc.
But I don't know if you will see too many in cnc shops.

If I had to choose between a low rpm cold saw and a horz'l band saw, I'd
proly pick the band saw, but would always miss the cold saw.
As I do now!!
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Eric R Snow" wrote in message
...
On 27 Apr 2006 16:51:33 -0700, wrote:


Can someone who has experience with coldsaws please explain how these
differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
to true coldsaws?

Thanks,

Dave

Night and day.
The first thing to look at with any machine tool is the weight- this
tells you a lot, and is particularly informative in this case.
First, consider a standard $150 abrasive chop saw- 40 pounds or so.
With a 15 amp motor, which "develops" 3 hp? so they say, actually
probably more like 1/2hp.

Then, one of these new hybrid saws, with the carbide blade- the dewalt
is 47lbs, with again a 15 amp motor rated at "4 hp".

Sorry, Homey just doesnt believe the horsepower ratings.

Now look at a real coldsaw, like this Doringer- 780 lbs, and an honest
3hp 3phase motor.
http://www.doringer.com/d350.htm

The stamped steel base of the Multicutter is no match for the 500lb
piece of iron that is the base of the cold saw. The vise alone weighs
more than the whole Dewalt. The biggest problem with little stamped
steel vises with 1/2" thread screws is the cutting motion of the blade,
when cutting a miter, is doing its best to pull the workpiece sideways-
so you get funky, off angle cuts, inaccurate and crooked.
The big vise on a cold saw holds the material rigidly in place. The
Cast iron swivel base, which is engraved with degree marks, is quick
and easy to get exactly the angle you want, and then it stays there.

Constant coolant flow makes for no Heat Affected Zone, parts that can
be handled right away, clean cuts, minimum burr.

Cold saw blades last years- I have 2 for my saw, so one is always
sharp, then I send the other, UPS, off to be resharpened, for 30 bucks
or so. In heavy duty shop use, 3 guys full time, a blade can last 6
months to a year between sharpenings, on mild steel.
Yes, the blades are expensive, $165 for my size, (350 mmm) but I seldom
have to buy one. A gallon of coolant lasts years- you mix it something
like 20 to 1 with water.

I cut 2" solid square, or 1/4" round, with equal precision. The blade
speed is so slow, at about 44 rpm, that the danger is minimal- sure,
you can hurt yourself with any tool, but the difference in danger level
between a 2000 rpm carbide blade, and a 44 rpm steel blade- well, the
cold saw will hardly cut thru your glove if you brush up against the
spinning blade- try that with a Dewalt, and you will be counting to ten
using your feet.

As you can tell, I am sold on cold saws. I bought mine used for a
grand, almost 15 years ago. No problems with it in all that time,
except when an overenthusiastic employee actually snapped the 3/4"
diameter, 2 foot long saw handle off at the threads, by pulling down
too hard while cutting steel. No damage to the blade, or the saw, but
the handle broke- this is a testament to the way these things are
built.
Mine is a Haberle, made in Germany, but I understand most of the
current brands are similar highquality German, Dutch, or Italian saws.
Doringers are made in the US.

Yes, they cost a lot more.
But they are built like tanks, and will outlive you. So if you are
planning on making things from metal for any period of time, they will
pay for themselves in the end.
I use bandsaws for all my saw cuts. These saws also cut cold. And a
wide variety of materials can be cut just by changing blade speeds and
the type of blade. But I'm interested in cold saws. I've seen them
work on TV and they seem to cut pretty fast. How long does it take
your saw to cut through 2 inch mild steel round?
Thanks,
Eric

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:02:51 -0700, Eric R Snow wrote:
On 27 Apr 2006 16:51:33 -0700, wrote:


Can someone who has experience with coldsaws please explain how these
differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
to true coldsaws?

Thanks,

Dave

Night and day.
The first thing to look at with any machine tool is the weight- this
tells you a lot, and is particularly informative in this case.
First, consider a standard $150 abrasive chop saw- 40 pounds or so.
With a 15 amp motor, which "develops" 3 hp? so they say, actually
probably more like 1/2hp.

Then, one of these new hybrid saws, with the carbide blade- the dewalt
is 47lbs, with again a 15 amp motor rated at "4 hp".

Sorry, Homey just doesnt believe the horsepower ratings.

Now look at a real coldsaw, like this Doringer- 780 lbs, and an honest
3hp 3phase motor.
http://www.doringer.com/d350.htm

The stamped steel base of the Multicutter is no match for the 500lb
piece of iron that is the base of the cold saw. The vise alone weighs
more than the whole Dewalt. The biggest problem with little stamped
steel vises with 1/2" thread screws is the cutting motion of the blade,
when cutting a miter, is doing its best to pull the workpiece sideways-
so you get funky, off angle cuts, inaccurate and crooked.
The big vise on a cold saw holds the material rigidly in place. The
Cast iron swivel base, which is engraved with degree marks, is quick
and easy to get exactly the angle you want, and then it stays there.

Constant coolant flow makes for no Heat Affected Zone, parts that can
be handled right away, clean cuts, minimum burr.

Cold saw blades last years- I have 2 for my saw, so one is always
sharp, then I send the other, UPS, off to be resharpened, for 30 bucks
or so. In heavy duty shop use, 3 guys full time, a blade can last 6
months to a year between sharpenings, on mild steel.
Yes, the blades are expensive, $165 for my size, (350 mmm) but I seldom
have to buy one. A gallon of coolant lasts years- you mix it something
like 20 to 1 with water.

I cut 2" solid square, or 1/4" round, with equal precision. The blade
speed is so slow, at about 44 rpm, that the danger is minimal- sure,
you can hurt yourself with any tool, but the difference in danger level
between a 2000 rpm carbide blade, and a 44 rpm steel blade- well, the
cold saw will hardly cut thru your glove if you brush up against the
spinning blade- try that with a Dewalt, and you will be counting to ten
using your feet.

As you can tell, I am sold on cold saws. I bought mine used for a
grand, almost 15 years ago. No problems with it in all that time,
except when an overenthusiastic employee actually snapped the 3/4"
diameter, 2 foot long saw handle off at the threads, by pulling down
too hard while cutting steel. No damage to the blade, or the saw, but
the handle broke- this is a testament to the way these things are
built.
Mine is a Haberle, made in Germany, but I understand most of the
current brands are similar highquality German, Dutch, or Italian saws.
Doringers are made in the US.

Yes, they cost a lot more.
But they are built like tanks, and will outlive you. So if you are
planning on making things from metal for any period of time, they will
pay for themselves in the end.
I use bandsaws for all my saw cuts. These saws also cut cold. And a
wide variety of materials can be cut just by changing blade speeds and
the type of blade. But I'm interested in cold saws. I've seen them
work on TV and they seem to cut pretty fast. How long does it take
your saw to cut through 2 inch mild steel round?
Thanks,
Eric

I saw how cold saws work, they cut through steel like knife through
butter. Very quickly and quietly.

i

They are quiet. But quicker than a big bandsaw??
Mebbe poss. as fast, depending depending. Ours was always slower, tho, but
we never pushed, cuz the blades are so g-d expensive. Costs almost as much
to sharpen them as it does to buy a new bandsaw blade.
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
"Ignoramus21303" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:02:51 -0700, Eric R Snow wrote:
On 27 Apr 2006 16:51:33 -0700, wrote:


Can someone who has experience with coldsaws please explain how these
differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
to true coldsaws?

Thanks,

Dave

Night and day.
The first thing to look at with any machine tool is the weight- this
tells you a lot, and is particularly informative in this case.
First, consider a standard $150 abrasive chop saw- 40 pounds or so.
With a 15 amp motor, which "develops" 3 hp? so they say, actually
probably more like 1/2hp.

Then, one of these new hybrid saws, with the carbide blade- the dewalt
is 47lbs, with again a 15 amp motor rated at "4 hp".

Sorry, Homey just doesnt believe the horsepower ratings.

Now look at a real coldsaw, like this Doringer- 780 lbs, and an honest
3hp 3phase motor.
http://www.doringer.com/d350.htm

The stamped steel base of the Multicutter is no match for the 500lb
piece of iron that is the base of the cold saw. The vise alone weighs
more than the whole Dewalt. The biggest problem with little stamped
steel vises with 1/2" thread screws is the cutting motion of the blade,
when cutting a miter, is doing its best to pull the workpiece sideways-
so you get funky, off angle cuts, inaccurate and crooked.
The big vise on a cold saw holds the material rigidly in place. The
Cast iron swivel base, which is engraved with degree marks, is quick
and easy to get exactly the angle you want, and then it stays there.

Constant coolant flow makes for no Heat Affected Zone, parts that can
be handled right away, clean cuts, minimum burr.

Cold saw blades last years- I have 2 for my saw, so one is always
sharp, then I send the other, UPS, off to be resharpened, for 30 bucks
or so. In heavy duty shop use, 3 guys full time, a blade can last 6
months to a year between sharpenings, on mild steel.
Yes, the blades are expensive, $165 for my size, (350 mmm) but I seldom
have to buy one. A gallon of coolant lasts years- you mix it something
like 20 to 1 with water.

I cut 2" solid square, or 1/4" round, with equal precision. The blade
speed is so slow, at about 44 rpm, that the danger is minimal- sure,
you can hurt yourself with any tool, but the difference in danger level
between a 2000 rpm carbide blade, and a 44 rpm steel blade- well, the
cold saw will hardly cut thru your glove if you brush up against the
spinning blade- try that with a Dewalt, and you will be counting to ten
using your feet.

As you can tell, I am sold on cold saws. I bought mine used for a
grand, almost 15 years ago. No problems with it in all that time,
except when an overenthusiastic employee actually snapped the 3/4"
diameter, 2 foot long saw handle off at the threads, by pulling down
too hard while cutting steel. No damage to the blade, or the saw, but
the handle broke- this is a testament to the way these things are
built.
Mine is a Haberle, made in Germany, but I understand most of the
current brands are similar highquality German, Dutch, or Italian saws.
Doringers are made in the US.

Yes, they cost a lot more.
But they are built like tanks, and will outlive you. So if you are
planning on making things from metal for any period of time, they will
pay for themselves in the end.
I use bandsaws for all my saw cuts. These saws also cut cold. And a
wide variety of materials can be cut just by changing blade speeds and
the type of blade. But I'm interested in cold saws. I've seen them
work on TV and they seem to cut pretty fast. How long does it take
your saw to cut through 2 inch mild steel round?
Thanks,
Eric

I saw how cold saws work, they cut through steel like knife through
butter. Very quickly and quietly.

i

In my shop, we have a wide range of choices- 2 horizontal bandsaws, a
cold saw, an ironworker, a portaband, oxy-fuel torch, and a 4x8 foot
automatic plasma cutter.

I love the bandsaws for hand trimming- we tilt up the little 4x6 jet,
and with an .025 bimetal blade, can trim oddball stuff at miters,
notch, and trim to length things that are already bent or welded, and
wont fit in a vise. The other day I trimmed 100 pieces of 1/2" round
stainless by hand on it- quick and controllable.

And for big stuff, like 6" square tubing miters, the bandsaw rules.

But for production cut to length of mild steel, when tight fit up is
required, its the cold saw.
Yes, it does cost as much to sharpen the blade as a bimetal blade for
the little bandsaw.
But as I said, a blade can last 10,000 cuts between sharpenings, and
can be resharpened for years.

2" square is probably about a minute. Most small stuff, like say 5/8"
round, is seconds to cut. Takes much longer to unclamp and slide the
material than to cut.
I have a 10' runout table on my cold saw, with a homemade Biesemeyer
style stop on it, with a sticky back 10' tape measure and one turn hand
tighten stop. So cutting parts to a precise length is a snap.

In terms of speed, I think the cold saw is faster than the horizontal
band saw, but it takes full attention- you can set the horizontal and
leave it, and it will turn itself off when done.

Of course, for multiple parts, if you dont mind a deformed (pinched)
end, the ironworker with its auto stop is the cats pajamas. We have a
Geka, with a 12 foot extension gage in the back, one hand wrenchless
locking, built in stainless steel tape measure in both metric and
imperial. Slide the stop to your desired length, lock it. Slide in the
material till it hits the stop, and the stop turns on the hydraulic
shear, it cuts, then you slide it in again, repeat til 20' length has
all fallen into the parts tub you postioned in just the right place
below the output chute.

Technology is a wonderful thing.

I'd die and go to heaven (hopefully) for a fully automatic cold saw, w/ auto
feed.
Proly have to mortgage my g-d house.
I'd like to do the same for the 4x6 band saw.
Really shouldn't be too hard, if one were familiar w/ the various
components.
I'd use air, tho, rather than hydraulics.
--
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll
wrote in message
oups.com...
In my shop, we have a wide range of choices- 2 horizontal bandsaws, a
cold saw, an ironworker, a portaband, oxy-fuel torch, and a 4x8 foot
automatic plasma cutter.

I love the bandsaws for hand trimming- we tilt up the little 4x6 jet,
and with an .025 bimetal blade, can trim oddball stuff at miters,
notch, and trim to length things that are already bent or welded, and
wont fit in a vise. The other day I trimmed 100 pieces of 1/2" round
stainless by hand on it- quick and controllable.

And for big stuff, like 6" square tubing miters, the bandsaw rules.

But for production cut to length of mild steel, when tight fit up is
required, its the cold saw.
Yes, it does cost as much to sharpen the blade as a bimetal blade for
the little bandsaw.
But as I said, a blade can last 10,000 cuts between sharpenings, and
can be resharpened for years.

2" square is probably about a minute. Most small stuff, like say 5/8"
round, is seconds to cut. Takes much longer to unclamp and slide the
material than to cut.
I have a 10' runout table on my cold saw, with a homemade Biesemeyer
style stop on it, with a sticky back 10' tape measure and one turn hand
tighten stop. So cutting parts to a precise length is a snap.

In terms of speed, I think the cold saw is faster than the horizontal
band saw, but it takes full attention- you can set the horizontal and
leave it, and it will turn itself off when done.

Of course, for multiple parts, if you dont mind a deformed (pinched)
end, the ironworker with its auto stop is the cats pajamas. We have a
Geka, with a 12 foot extension gage in the back, one hand wrenchless
locking, built in stainless steel tape measure in both metric and
imperial. Slide the stop to your desired length, lock it. Slide in the
material till it hits the stop, and the stop turns on the hydraulic
shear, it cuts, then you slide it in again, repeat til 20' length has
all fallen into the parts tub you postioned in just the right place
below the output chute.

Technology is a wonderful thing.

Can someone who has experience with coldsaws please explain how these
differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
to true coldsaws?

Thanks,

Dave

The only comment I can add is from a grunt's perspective.

I worked for a short time at a fabrication company that had a cold saw. It
was the most accurate, easiest saw that I have ever used.

Slide the material in there, adjust the angle, clamp it down, saw it, dry it
off, and weld it.

One could transpose angles right off drawings, and they would come out
exactly. No blade drift on miter cuts.

I even like my little HF band saw over a chop saw. BUT, if I ever get the
chance to get a cold saw for a decent price, I will go with one in a
heartbeat.

Whether it is for you or employees, it is a great way to accurately and
efficiently cut metal. Resulting in savings in time, waste, and accuracy.

They're the cat's meow.

Steve

On 27 Apr 2006 16:51:33 -0700, wrote:


Can someone who has experience with coldsaws please explain how these
differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
to true coldsaws?

Thanks,

Dave

Night and day.
The first thing to look at with any machine tool is the weight- this
tells you a lot, and is particularly informative in this case.
First, consider a standard $150 abrasive chop saw- 40 pounds or so.
With a 15 amp motor, which "develops" 3 hp? so they say, actually
probably more like 1/2hp.

Then, one of these new hybrid saws, with the carbide blade- the dewalt
is 47lbs, with again a 15 amp motor rated at "4 hp".

Sorry, Homey just doesnt believe the horsepower ratings.

Now look at a real coldsaw, like this Doringer- 780 lbs, and an honest
3hp 3phase motor.
http://www.doringer.com/d350.htm


snip good comments

I'm curious. In the land of Nader, why are there no laws that prohibit a
company from claiming that a motor can produce twice the power that its
electrical supply will allow it to consume?

Over here in Blighty The company could be prosecuted for falsely describing
the product.

The adverts for the toy cold cut saws state no-load speeds of 1300 and 1500
rpm. Are the saws geared or are they really running at 5000 fpm? I'm not sure
that I would want to cut anything more than aluminium at that speed with only
a carbide tipped blade.


Mark Rand
RTFM

Dave wrote:

Can someone who has experience with coldsaws please explain how these
differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
to true coldsaws?

In the steel construction company where I worked, we had only "real"
cold saws. All were Eisele. I'd like to have one of these! Fast,
accurate and clean cuts. Not comparable to bandsaws or those high rev
saws that make lots of nasty burrs and noise. If you cut steel in packs
(to save time) the burrs melt together and you have to toss things
apart. Crap in my eyes.

Lifespan of blades? Don't know. They were reground when dull, but I
don't remember how often that was. Once a month? With heavy use.


Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
DIY-DRO // Eigenbau-Digitalanzeige
http://www.yadro.de

Mark Rand wrote:

I'm curious. In the land of Nader, why are there no laws that prohibit a
company from claiming that a motor can produce twice the power that its
electrical supply will allow it to consume?

Mark Rand

Well you can see how far "Nadarism" has gotten him, can't you? :-)
...lew...

On Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:02:18 GMT, Lew Hartswick wrote:
Mark Rand wrote:

I'm curious. In the land of Nader, why are there no laws that prohibit a
company from claiming that a motor can produce twice the power that its
electrical supply will allow it to consume?

Mark Rand

Well you can see how far "Nadarism" has gotten him, can't you? :-)
...lew...

I personally boycott pretty much all products that have inflated HP
ratings (peak HP, maximum developed HP, etc). My theory is that they
are all poorly made compared to honestly rated stuff.

i

"Dave" wrote in message
oups.com...
A thread got started on the bandsaw group regarding coldsaws and the
pseudo-coldsaws such as these;

http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/to...?categoryID=88
http://www.milwaukeeconnect.com/weba...131_189330_362

Can someone who has experience with coldsaws please explain how these
differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
to true coldsaws?

Thanks,

Dave

I have very little experience with "true coldsaws" but I did just upgrade
from a Makita 14" abrasive chop saw to a 14" dry cut 1300 rpm Evolution saw.
I haven't had it long enough to comment on blade life but in general I love
this thing. It's faster , no sparks, no smell far more accurate,no dust and
no burr. It's a bit noisy but in a fab shop what isn't. I'll still use the
Makita for some things but it's going to spend a lot more time on the shelf.
The Evolution saw came with a metal cutting circular saw (promo deal) I used
it the other day it cut a 4" x 1 1/4" with about the same effort it takes to
cut a 2 x4 stick. Just a happy consumer....

YMMV

Andrew


--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

On 27 Apr 2006 19:25:45 -0700, wrote:

In my shop, we have a wide range of choices- 2 horizontal bandsaws, a
cold saw, an ironworker, a portaband, oxy-fuel torch, and a 4x8 foot
automatic plasma cutter.

I love the bandsaws for hand trimming- we tilt up the little 4x6 jet,
and with an .025 bimetal blade, can trim oddball stuff at miters,
notch, and trim to length things that are already bent or welded, and
wont fit in a vise. The other day I trimmed 100 pieces of 1/2" round
stainless by hand on it- quick and controllable.

And for big stuff, like 6" square tubing miters, the bandsaw rules.

But for production cut to length of mild steel, when tight fit up is
required, its the cold saw.
Yes, it does cost as much to sharpen the blade as a bimetal blade for
the little bandsaw.
But as I said, a blade can last 10,000 cuts between sharpenings, and
can be resharpened for years.

2" square is probably about a minute. Most small stuff, like say 5/8"
round, is seconds to cut. Takes much longer to unclamp and slide the
material than to cut.
I have a 10' runout table on my cold saw, with a homemade Biesemeyer
style stop on it, with a sticky back 10' tape measure and one turn hand
tighten stop. So cutting parts to a precise length is a snap.

In terms of speed, I think the cold saw is faster than the horizontal
band saw, but it takes full attention- you can set the horizontal and
leave it, and it will turn itself off when done.

Of course, for multiple parts, if you dont mind a deformed (pinched)
end, the ironworker with its auto stop is the cats pajamas. We have a
Geka, with a 12 foot extension gage in the back, one hand wrenchless
locking, built in stainless steel tape measure in both metric and
imperial. Slide the stop to your desired length, lock it. Slide in the
material till it hits the stop, and the stop turns on the hydraulic
shear, it cuts, then you slide it in again, repeat til 20' length has
all fallen into the parts tub you postioned in just the right place
below the output chute.

Technology is a wonderful thing.
Thanks for the report.
Eric

Dave wrote:
A thread got started on the bandsaw group regarding coldsaws and the
pseudo-coldsaws such as these;

http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/to...?categoryID=88
http://www.milwaukeeconnect.com/weba...131_189330_362

Can someone who has experience with coldsaws please explain how these
differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
to true coldsaws?

Thanks,

Dave

Hi Dave. Since my shop experience is almost nil I can't comment on
costs but I have observed many cold saws in use. It seems they're used
mostly where flexibility of a bandsaw blade would cause problems. I've
seen them in use frequently where they were used for cutting large
solids such as those in large forging operations where ingots are first
cut down before going to the presses. I imagine cutting straight
through a 48x48 chunk of steel would be difficult with a bandsaw unless
the blade was immense, however I've only seen such huge bandsaw blades
in wood sawing operations.

dennis
in nca

wrote:
[...]
As you can tell, I am sold on cold saws. I bought mine used for a
grand, almost 15 years ago. No problems with it in all that time,
except when an overenthusiastic employee actually snapped the 3/4"
diameter, 2 foot long saw handle off at the threads, by pulling down
too hard while cutting steel. No damage to the blade, or the saw, but
the handle broke- this is a testament to the way these things are
built.
Mine is a Haberle, made in Germany, but I understand most of the
current brands are similar highquality German, Dutch, or Italian saws.
Doringers are made in the US.

Yes, they cost a lot more.
But they are built like tanks, and will outlive you. So if you are
planning on making things from metal for any period of time, they will
pay for themselves in the end.


Well I wonder how safe or unsafe these 1500 RPM (5500 SFPM?) saws are?
If a true coldsaw runs so slow does it use a really thick blade so
that a lot of pressure can be applied to it?

Looking around I see;

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...lance&n=228013

3.14*7.25*5800/12 = 11003 SFPM ???

AndrewV wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message
oups.com...
A thread got started on the bandsaw group regarding coldsaws and the
pseudo-coldsaws such as these;

http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/to...?categoryID=88
http://www.milwaukeeconnect.com/weba...131_189330_362

Can someone who has experience with coldsaws please explain how these
differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
to true coldsaws?

Thanks,

Dave

I have very little experience with "true coldsaws" but I did just upgrade
from a Makita 14" abrasive chop saw to a 14" dry cut 1300 rpm Evolution saw.
I haven't had it long enough to comment on blade life but in general I love
this thing. It's faster , no sparks, no smell far more accurate,no dust and
no burr. It's a bit noisy but in a fab shop what isn't. I'll still use the
Makita for some things but it's going to spend a lot more time on the shelf.
The Evolution saw came with a metal cutting circular saw (promo deal) I used
it the other day it cut a 4" x 1 1/4" with about the same effort it takes to
cut a 2 x4 stick. Just a happy consumer....

YMMV

Andrew

I wonder about kickback. Would an abrasive disk be less likely to
produce kickback?

"Dave" wrote in message
oups.com...
AndrewV wrote:
I have very little experience with "true coldsaws" but I did just
upgrade
from a Makita 14" abrasive chop saw to a 14" dry cut 1300 rpm Evolution
saw.
I haven't had it long enough to comment on blade life but in general I
love
this thing. It's faster , no sparks, no smell far more accurate,no dust
and
no burr. It's a bit noisy but in a fab shop what isn't. I'll still use
the
Makita for some things but it's going to spend a lot more time on the
shelf.
The Evolution saw came with a metal cutting circular saw (promo deal) I
used
it the other day it cut a 4" x 1 1/4" with about the same effort it takes
to
cut a 2 x4 stick. Just a happy consumer....

YMMV

Andrew

I wonder about kickback. Would an abrasive disk be less likely to
produce kickback?


I think kickback is more a function of technique and good workholding. Also
I've never experienced kickback on a chop saw or a circular saw only on a
table saw and chainsaw.

Andrew


--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

Kickback, by definition, can only occur with an unclamped workpiece,
like on a tablesaw.
If the work piece is securely clamped down, kickback is impossible,
like on a chop saw with a vise, or a cold saw, or a milling machine.
Higher end tablesaws have sliding tables, with clamps to hold the
workpiece down- so they eliminate the possibility of kickback. No
reason you couldnt put a vise on your radial arm saw, but it would slow
you down.

But if the workpiece somehow gets loose accidentally, it stands to
reason that the slower the saw blade, the less dangerous it would be.

The blade on a real cold saw is just under an 1/8" thick, on most of
the smaller ones. It is High Speed Steel, no carbide teeth. It will
take a fair amount of force in pulling it thru the work, without
bending, but you can break em by dropping em while they are running
down on the workpiece.

As far as big bandsaws- they make huge bandsaws- they just cost a lot.
I have a buddy who bought a 30,000$ Amada (made in Japan, one of the
best bandsaws in the world)
It was full auto, it would feed the material, cut it, and feed in the
next piece until it was out of steel.
The big ones will cut 20" square solid, with a 2" wide blade, dead
straight.

Saws are just like hot rods- how fast you want to go depends on how
much money you have to spend.

In article .com,
says...


As far as big bandsaws- they make huge bandsaws- they just cost a lot.
I have a buddy who bought a 30,000$ Amada (made in Japan, one of the
best bandsaws in the world)
It was full auto, it would feed the material, cut it, and feed in the
next piece until it was out of steel.
The big ones will cut 20" square solid, with a 2" wide blade, dead
straight.

That's a little Amada. This is a big one g...
http://www.techspex.com/techspex/saw...&units=english

Ned Simmons

Ned Simmons wrote:

That's a little Amada. This is a big one g...
http://www.techspex.com/techspex/saw...&units=english

.... and what is your user-ID and password? :-)

Nick
--
Motor Modelle // Engine Models
http://www.motor-manufaktur.de
DIY-DRO // Eigenbau-Digitalanzeige
http://www.yadro.de

wrote:
Dave wrote:
Can someone who has experience with coldsaws please explain how these
differ in performance and blade lifespan (cost effectiveness) compared
to true coldsaws?

[...]
I cut 2" solid square, or 1/4" round, with equal precision. The blade
speed is so slow, at about 44 rpm, that the danger is minimal- sure,
you can hurt yourself with any tool, but the difference in danger level
between a 2000 rpm carbide blade, and a 44 rpm steel blade- well, the
cold saw will hardly cut thru your glove if you brush up against the
spinning blade- try that with a Dewalt, and you will be counting to ten
using your feet.

As you can tell, I am sold on cold saws. I bought mine used for a
grand, almost 15 years ago. No problems with it in all that time,
except when an overenthusiastic employee actually snapped the 3/4"
diameter, 2 foot long saw handle off at the threads, by pulling down
too hard while cutting steel. No damage to the blade, or the saw, but
the handle broke- this is a testament to the way these things are
built. [...]


What I don't understand is, with such a low RPM, is a very large blade
pressure applied with a coldsaw? Is that why they need to be so massive
and have a long handle? Thanks.

If you are asking- "do I have to have arms like popeye to use a
coldsaw?"
the answer is no.
They are so massive because rigidity is the key to accuracy in any
machine tool. Vibration, and chatter, are always your enemy.
A decent horizontal mill can easily weigh in at 10,000lbs.

So the massive aspect makes for precise, clean cuts.

But as far as blade pressure- yeah, you pull down on the handle, but
not with any extraordinary force. What cuts the steel is the incredible
torque of a 3hp motor geared down to 45rpm.

wrote:
If you are asking- "do I have to have arms like popeye to use a
coldsaw?"
the answer is no.
They are so massive because rigidity is the key to accuracy in any
machine tool. Vibration, and chatter, are always your enemy.
A decent horizontal mill can easily weigh in at 10,000lbs.

So the massive aspect makes for precise, clean cuts.

But as far as blade pressure- yeah, you pull down on the handle, but
not with any extraordinary force. What cuts the steel is the incredible
torque of a 3hp motor geared down to 45rpm.

Ok, so then are the chips from a coldsaw quite large? Thanks.

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
says...


As far as big bandsaws- they make huge bandsaws- they just cost a lot.
I have a buddy who bought a 30,000$ Amada (made in Japan, one of the
best bandsaws in the world)
It was full auto, it would feed the material, cut it, and feed in the
next piece until it was out of steel.
The big ones will cut 20" square solid, with a 2" wide blade, dead
straight.

That's a little Amada. This is a big one g...
http://www.techspex.com/techspex/saw...&units=english

Ned Simmons

Psssst. Nick. You forgot to include the username and password.

Steve

In article 59A5g.8135$QP4.5725@fed1read12,
says...

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
says...


As far as big bandsaws- they make huge bandsaws- they just cost a lot.
I have a buddy who bought a 30,000$ Amada (made in Japan, one of the
best bandsaws in the world)
It was full auto, it would feed the material, cut it, and feed in the
next piece until it was out of steel.
The big ones will cut 20" square solid, with a 2" wide blade, dead
straight.

That's a little Amada. This is a big one g...
http://www.techspex.com/techspex/saw...&units=english

Ned Simmons

Psssst. Nick. You forgot to include the username and password.

Steve


The first time I accessed that page I wasn't asked for a password til I
tried to go beyond it - maybe because I got there from Google. This is
the same saw on another site.
http://www.hawksawblades.com/saws_a_h1600.htm

Ned Simmons