Hi,

I am going to need to drill a 2 1/4" and 10 or so 1 1/8" holes in a metal
control panel (for an arcade game). I'm not sure how thick the control
panel is, but I wouldn't think thicker than 1/8". My understanding that it
will arrive to me "powder coated" which I'm not sure will complicate things
or not. I have a drill press and plan (so far) to drill using a lenox
bimetal hole saw. I plan to put some wood behind the control panel while
drilling it.

I saw people mention coolant on other drilling posts, do I need to be
concerned about this?

What RPM should I drill at?

Any tips or other ideas?

Thanks,

Alan

AAARRRGGGGHHHhh! ! ! ! !
It is always nasty working on finished panels!
Use the hole saw after predrilling the center holes as this will make
centering the hole much easier. If there is a fine blade version, that will
probably work better for the powder coating.
The problem is going to be the powder coating more than anything else as
that stuff will tear nicely as you try to cut it. Heating it up with a hot
air gun or other method to about 400F will allow the cuts to seal.
Finally, yes, indeed, use a lubricant to extend the life of the saw as well
as keep the metal cool.
If the hole saw burrs up the powder coating too much, you may want to go to
a single tooth flycutter to remove the powder coating first. Here again,
having a center hole drilled first will mean that you will be able to do
concenctric work on different drill presses without having to do a lot of
setup work as you can use pins instead of drills for the centering piece for
the hole saw, etc.


--
Bob May
Losing weight is easy! If you ever want to lose weight, eat and drink less.
Works evevery time it is tried!

"Alan Kamrowski II" wrote in message
...

I am going to need to drill a 2 1/4" and 10 or so 1 1/8" holes in
[sheet] metal
...
I have a drill press and plan (so far) to drill using a lenox
bimetal hole saw.


A hole saw will likely give you a rough and possibly out-of-round hole. Also
hole saws cut larger than their listed size so test accordingly.

I would recommend a step drill (like those made by Unibit) for the 1-1/8"
holes; these drills make very nicely-sized and very round holes in sheet
metal:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3

However, I don't know if they make bits large enough to cut the 2-1/4" hole.
If not, you may want to try a single-point hole cutter (basically a
trepanning tool); General Tool makes one:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...&PARTPG=INLMK3

If you use this, go very slow (RPM), use a light feed, and clamp your work
very firmly. Also, use a thick, dense backing board (like MDF) under your
workpiece.

If you can use flood coolant during these operations, that will help save
your powdercoat from burning/discoloring/bubbling.

Hi,

Thanks for posting--I really appreciate your help.

A hole saw will likely give you a rough and possibly out-of-round hole.
Also
hole saws cut larger than their listed size so test accordingly.

I really only have one of these to do, so I am trying to do it the best way
I can without spending much on tools. I'm pretty lucky in that the buttons
have a bit of overhang that should hang over the cut can should be a little
forgiving. But, the large cut (for a trackball) is 2 1/4" and I'm concerned
about how it will look. If I do end up having to use a hole saw, do you
have any other recommendations on the best way to do it and still have the
panel look good?

Should I cut from the top or bottom?

When you say a light feed, you mean low pressure when drilling?

What kind of fluid should I use? Apply it once when beginning or more?

Should I take my time--drill a little bit, then let it cool, then drill
again, etc?

Thanks!

Alan

"Alan Kamrowski II" wrote in message
...

I really only have one of these to do, so I am trying to do it the best
way I can without spending much on tools. I'm pretty lucky in that the
buttons have a bit of overhang that should hang over the cut can should
be a little forgiving.

How much is "a bit"? A hole saw was never designed to cut precise holes.
There are four problems with hole saws:

1) They are not perfectly sized (due to the offsets on the cutting teeth)
2) They are not perfectly round (again due to the offsets, as well as the
nature of the design)
3) They are not perfectly centered. Hole saws screw on to a mandrel and it
is the threads that locate the center (not precise).
4) On larger hole saws, there are driving pins on the mandrel that must
engage holes in the back of the saw. In order to line the holes up with the
pins, you can not screw the saw tightly onto the mandrel. That means there
will be some wobble in saw because the centering feature (the threaded part)
is loose. When cutting metal, that wobble will lead to chatter and a very
sloppy hole. I know, I've done it before. You can choose to not engage the
pins and just screw the saw on until it contacts the end of the threads, but
you risk jamming the saw on the mandrel and/or damaging the threads of the
mandrel and/or saw. Of course, this still won't solve the other problems
listed above.

That's not to say that hole saws do not have their place in metal cutting
operations; they can be used effectively for cutting large holes provided
you do not have any expectations that the holes will be exactly sized (or
precisely round).

Another problem you may encounter is that in cutting thin metal, the teeth
of the hole saw may catch the metal as the saw breaks through and could tear
the metal. When I used a hole saw for metal cutting operations, I was
cutting holes in 1/4" mild steel.

I found that hole saws typically cut up to 1/8" oversize for small
diameters. For your large 2-1/4" hole, I would expect the hole to be
anywhere from 1/8" to 1/4" oversize. Can you allow for that much error?

You said you don't want to spend too much on tools, yet that single-point
hole cutter by General is less than $11 and will cut perfect holes (and I've
seen them sold at local hardware stores, so you don't have to order it). You
can use it to cut your 1-1/8" holes too, although it will be more
time-consuming than using a step drill bit like I suggested previously.
Since you said you have more than 10 holes to cut, you may have to sharpen
the HSS bit once or more during the job.


If I do end up having to use a hole saw, do you have any other
recommendations on the best way to do it and still have the
panel look good?

I simply cannot recommend using a hole saw for your application, no matter
how you try it.


Should I cut from the top or bottom?

Top.


When you say a light feed, you mean low pressure when drilling?

Yes.


What kind of fluid should I use?

The best would be water-soluble oil, as that has the greatest cooling
properties (to protect your powdercoat finish). If you don't have that, then
a light cutting oil would be the next best choice, but you may end up with
some burning around the hole. It depends also on how careful you are when
cutting. Use low RPM, light (but steady) feed, and you may need to stop
several times (retracting the tool) to allow the part to cool between cuts.
Again, the single-point tool will be the best option because it's not
cutting along the entire circumference at once (i.e., the metal has a chance
to cool as the cutting edge turns 360 degrees).


Apply it once when beginning or more?

Flood cooling (continuous stream) is best. If not, apply a puddle at the
start and apply more while cutting if it starts to get too hot.


Should I take my time--drill a little bit, then let it cool,
then drill again, etc?

Yes, if necessary (as mentioned above). But when you are cutting, keep the
pressure light but firm. You don't want too much feed as you will overheat,
get chatter, and probably have the cutting tool dig it. But you don't want
the tool to drag either as that will just generate friction instead of
cutting.

I've never tried one on a powdered coated panel but chassis or knockout
punches would probably give you much better results than a hole saw.
They're more expensive but it might be worth it. They give a really clean
hole. Here's one source:

http://www.mcmaster.com/

Type "knockout punches" into the search box.

Grainger has them too but eBay might be your best shot for a good deal. For
example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2564990672

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2564995537

You need to know how thick the panel is and what it's made of before you buy
any though. There are a couple of different styles for different
thicknesses of panels.

Best Regards,
Keith Marshall


"I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"


"Alan Kamrowski II" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I am going to need to drill a 2 1/4" and 10 or so 1 1/8" holes in a metal
control panel (for an arcade game). I'm not sure how thick the control
panel is, but I wouldn't think thicker than 1/8". My understanding that
it
will arrive to me "powder coated" which I'm not sure will complicate
things
or not. I have a drill press and plan (so far) to drill using a lenox
bimetal hole saw. I plan to put some wood behind the control panel while
drilling it.

I saw people mention coolant on other drilling posts, do I need to be
concerned about this?

What RPM should I drill at?

Any tips or other ideas?

Thanks,

Alan

In article ,
Keith Marshall wrote:
I've never tried one on a powdered coated panel but chassis or knockout
punches would probably give you much better results than a hole saw.
They're more expensive but it might be worth it. They give a really clean
hole.

Agreed, with the punch on the side towards the outside, and
the die towards the back of the panel, since it will probably scuff the
power-coat finish somewhat.

Here's one source:

http://www.mcmaster.com/

Type "knockout punches" into the search box.

*** Warning *** -- a 3" chassis punch and a 3" knockout punch
produce different sized holes. To be right on size, you want the
chassis punch, or at least to buy a knockout punch by the size of hole
it will produce, rather than the ID of the conduit which it is designed
to accept. At the price that these things go for, you *really* want to
be sure that you get the right one.

You'll also need a pretty hefty vise to hold the flats on the
punch, and (ideally) one of the ball-bearing drive screws. If you were
going to be making a lot of these, you might want to spring for a
hydraulic driver for the punch, too. But for your single panel, I don't
think so.

Hmm ... check whether your local tool rental shop has knockout
punch sets (they are not likely to have the chassis punch sets), so you
can measure to see what size is right -- and perhaps rent the punches
*with* the hydraulic driver. After all -- I believe that you said 1/8"
aluminum, and this is a bit thick for a knockout punch, even in
aluminum.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"Keith Marshall" wrote in message
...
I've never tried one on a powdered coated panel but chassis or knockout
punches would probably give you much better results than a hole saw.
They're more expensive but it might be worth it. They give a really clean
hole. Here's one source:

http://www.mcmaster.com/

Type "knockout punches" into the search box.

Grainger has them too but eBay might be your best shot for a good deal.
For
example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2564990672

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=2564995537

You need to know how thick the panel is and what it's made of before you
buy
any though. There are a couple of different styles for different
thicknesses of panels.

Best Regards,
Keith Marshall


"I'm not grown up enough to be so old!"

Try *visiting* a local electrical contractor around quitting time with a
case of beer on hand. They will likely be able to punch out your holes in
no time. The only thing is, your 2 1/4 holes will likely be 2 3/16" on
their die for 2" conduit. The dies may cut 2.25. I never precicely
measured.

Jeremy




"Alan Kamrowski II" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I am going to need to drill a 2 1/4" and 10 or so 1 1/8" holes in a
metal
control panel (for an arcade game). I'm not sure how thick the control
panel is, but I wouldn't think thicker than 1/8". My understanding that
it
will arrive to me "powder coated" which I'm not sure will complicate
things
or not. I have a drill press and plan (so far) to drill using a lenox
bimetal hole saw. I plan to put some wood behind the control panel
while
drilling it.

I saw people mention coolant on other drilling posts, do I need to be
concerned about this?

What RPM should I drill at?

Any tips or other ideas?

Thanks,

Alan

DeepDiver,

How much is "a bit"? A hole saw was never designed to cut precise holes.

Hole needed 1 1/8", overhang 1 5/16". See picture at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~alank2/image001.jpg

Hole needed 2 1/4, in this case underhang 2 9/16". See picture at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~alank2/image002.jpg

Panel is something like:
http://www.mikesarcade.com/cgi-bin/s...&sku=MSPACCPUR

I was thinking about using a 6pc kit with built in arbors such as
http://www.lenoxsaw.com/aholswkt.htm , but you've convinced me to do
otherwise!

I have found that my drill press only goes down to 585 rpm at the lowest
speed.

You said you don't want to spend too much on tools, yet that single-point
hole cutter by General is less than $11 and will cut perfect holes (and
I've
seen them sold at local hardware stores, so you don't have to order it).

Do you think I can find one at Lowes or HD ?

You
can use it to cut your 1-1/8" holes too, although it will be more
time-consuming than using a step drill bit like I suggested previously.
Since you said you have more than 10 holes to cut, you may have to sharpen
the HSS bit once or more during the job.

I got you.

The best would be water-soluble oil, as that has the greatest cooling
properties (to protect your powdercoat finish).

Is this something available a Lowes or HD as well? Would it be in the
cutting/drilling section?

Once again, thanks for all your help, I really do appreciate it!!!!

Alan

"Alan Kamrowski II" wrote in message
...

Hole needed 1 1/8", overhang 1 5/16". See picture at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~alank2/image001.jpg

But those are diameters. So you have to divide by two to get the actual
"overhang". In this case, 3/32", way too tight a tolerance for using hole
saws. Also realize that if the holes are loose, your buttons may wiggle
around when the arcade action gets hot.


Hole needed 2 1/4, in this case underhang 2 9/16". See picture at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~alank2/image002.jpg

In this case, the cut hole will be visible on the top of the panel (unless
you have a piece of trim to glue on top). All the more reason to make a
precisely sized and shaped hole.


I was thinking about using a 6pc kit with built in arbors such as
http://www.lenoxsaw.com/aholswkt.htm , but you've convinced me to do
otherwise!

These arbors are not "built in"; they simply include a screw on arbor for
each saw in the kit (so there is still the problem with wobble, etc.). Btw,
you said you wanted to save money: each of those kits probably runs over
$100, perhaps over $200.

But enough words have been wasted on hole saws.


I have found that my drill press only goes down to 585 rpm at the lowest
speed.

That's too fast. You're going to want something around 100 rpm.


Do you think I can find one at Lowes or HD ?

Probably. Go take a look.


Since you said you have more than 10 holes to cut, you may have to
sharpen
the HSS bit once or more during the job.

I got you.

That's assuming the panel is sheet steel. If aluminum, you may be able to
get away with doing the whole job without sharpening.


The best would be water-soluble oil, as that has the greatest cooling
properties (to protect your powdercoat finish).

Is this something available a Lowes or HD as well? Would it be in the
cutting/drilling section?

Nope, not available at any hardware store. If you're cutting aluminum, you
can use straight kerosene (it shouldn't affect the finish, but test on a
small spot first). If you're cutting steel, then you're going to have to
hunt around for an appropriate cutting fluid.


Once again, thanks for all your help, I really do appreciate it!!!!

You're welcome. Good Luck.

"Alan Kamrowski II" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I am going to need to drill a 2 1/4" and 10 or so 1 1/8" holes in a metal
control panel (for an arcade game). I'm not sure how thick the control
panel is, but I wouldn't think thicker than 1/8". My understanding that
it
will arrive to me "powder coated" which I'm not sure will complicate
things
or not. I have a drill press and plan (so far) to drill using a lenox
bimetal hole saw. I plan to put some wood behind the control panel while
drilling it.

I saw people mention coolant on other drilling posts, do I need to be
concerned about this?

What RPM should I drill at?

Any tips or other ideas?

Thanks,

Alan


I have always relied on hole punches for this sort of job. They produce
clean neat holes to a close tolerance and are relatively cheap. They are
known as Q max cutters here in UK. I'm sure you have a similar product in
USA. They consist of a punch and a die with a bolt to force the punch into
the die. see here for an example.
http://www.glrmodelsupplies.com/GLR/html/odds.html
They are available up to 2.25" at least and in both metric and imperial
sizes.

John

DeepDiver,

But those are diameters. So you have to divide by two to get the actual
"overhang". In this case, 3/32", way too tight a tolerance for using hole
saws. Also realize that if the holes are loose, your buttons may wiggle
around when the arcade action gets hot.

I didn't think about that.

That's too fast. You're going to want something around 100 rpm.

Is this a deal breaker for drilling? It really only goes down to 585rpm.
Should I look into punching instead or try to find someone who can do it for
me?

Thanks and have a great day,

Alan

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:40:17 +0100, "John Manders"
wrote something
.......and in reply I say!:

I would agree but....

Would you use a QMax for 3mm steel? They struggle with half that. The
poster said max 1/8th inch. Pretty hefty. I think to ponch this would
take serious dies and a lot of force.

However, it would also be a military grade panel...........but it is
an arcade item and might need to be....G

I have always relied on hole punches for this sort of job. They produce
clean neat holes to a close tolerance and are relatively cheap. They are
known as Q max cutters here in UK. I'm sure you have a similar product in
USA. They consist of a punch and a die with a bolt to force the punch into
the die. see here for an example.
http://www.glrmodelsupplies.com/GLR/html/odds.html
They are available up to 2.25" at least and in both metric and imperial
sizes.

John


************************************************** ****************************************
Whenever you have to prove to yourself that you are
not something, you probably are.

Nick White --- HEAD:Hertz Music

!!
")
_/ )
( )
_//- \__/

"Alan Kamrowski II" wrote in message
...
Hi,

For the one-time-hole, IF the box is ALuminum, then I would be tempted to
buy a spade bit the correct size, cut it so the TANG is long enough to cut
through the metal and edge it several times during the drilling to keep it
sharp.

I have a drawer of one-time-use items that occasionally come back out for a
second turn.
i.e. a half inch open end wrench with the "thumb" cut off and the edge
ground for a wood lathe tool...
Wm G.

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 07:14:51 -0500, "Alan Kamrowski II"
wrote:

Hi,

I am going to need to drill a 2 1/4" and 10 or so 1 1/8" holes in a metal
control panel (for an arcade game). I'm not sure how thick the control
panel is, but I wouldn't think thicker than 1/8". My understanding that it
will arrive to me "powder coated" which I'm not sure will complicate things
or not. I have a drill press and plan (so far) to drill using a lenox
bimetal hole saw. I plan to put some wood behind the control panel while
drilling it.

You need to know the thickness and what kind of metal it is -- steel
or aluminum.

Flycutting steel with a single-point tool is possible, but It takes a
very rigid setup, a rigid tool and a hefty drillpress -- or better, a
mill or mill-drill. If something moves and the tool "digs" or
catches, all hell can break loose.

One way to do it is to make rough holes anywhich way you can, even
with a sabersaw aka jigsaw. Also, make a good hole of the right
size to serve as a guide (could even be wood or masonite) and then
use a roto-zip, router or pneumatic diegrinder with bit appropriate
for the material to smooth up the hole. With steel use a carbide
burr. For aluminum, use a carbide routerbit or HSS endmill; carbide
burrs will load up with aluminum. Your chances of wrecking the panel
are much less this way, it goes surprisingly fast and it leaves a
surprisingly smooth hole.

I just today made some 4.5" dia holes in 1/4" plexiglass. I
rough-cut them with a sabersaw and then shaved them out to size with a
flycutter, enlarging the diameter 50 thou with each pass. Only took
two passes. Holes look like they grew the clean sharp edges with
no chippping.