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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many
ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound. I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized. I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas? Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations. |
#2
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
"Tom Gardner" wrote in
: Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations. Depending upon the individual, there may be several methods. 1. Read a good Sci-Fi book and get your mind out of this Universe. 2. Go back to basics: step through the problem incorporating the most minute level of detail that you can envision and, then, break each step down at least 4 times into smaller parts. This will often show up gaps in prior analysis. 3. Before attempting an automated answer, carefully step through the process of making 1 item manually. This may show the need for either additional steps or an additional machine. -Then- automate it. 4. If none of these (or any combination of them) seem to work, address the problem in reverse: start out with the finished product (visualized or actual) and then determine what the immediately-preceding step would have been. Repeat as necessary until each component has been resolved back to a rod/bar/block of material. Carry out steps in reverse order to produce more of whatever it is. Personally, I tend to use all 4. grin FWIW, when in doubt, my practice is to use the lowest-level of technology that can possibly deliver the desired results when working out either a new idea or a new item. I've found that, all too often, low-tech can accomplish tasks (albeit more slowly) than high-tech off-the-shelf can for the simple reason that high-tech is simply a means of speeding up one aspect of low-tech. (Example: A prototype can be "adjusted" more easily with manually- controlled equipment than on CNC gear.) BTW, there's a Fifth Method: find the laziest person skilled enough to understand what you're looking for and hand HIM/HER the problem (preferably with a deadline). You can rest assured that he/she will find the easy way. grin |
#3
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
"RAM³" wrote in message ... "Tom Gardner" wrote in : Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations. Depending upon the individual, there may be several methods. 1. Read a good Sci-Fi book and get your mind out of this Universe. 2. Go back to basics: step through the problem incorporating the most minute level of detail that you can envision and, then, break each step down at least 4 times into smaller parts. This will often show up gaps in prior analysis. 3. Before attempting an automated answer, carefully step through the process of making 1 item manually. This may show the need for either additional steps or an additional machine. -Then- automate it. 4. If none of these (or any combination of them) seem to work, address the problem in reverse: start out with the finished product (visualized or actual) and then determine what the immediately-preceding step would have been. Repeat as necessary until each component has been resolved back to a rod/bar/block of material. Carry out steps in reverse order to produce more of whatever it is. Personally, I tend to use all 4. grin FWIW, when in doubt, my practice is to use the lowest-level of technology that can possibly deliver the desired results when working out either a new idea or a new item. I've found that, all too often, low-tech can accomplish tasks (albeit more slowly) than high-tech off-the-shelf can for the simple reason that high-tech is simply a means of speeding up one aspect of low-tech. (Example: A prototype can be "adjusted" more easily with manually- controlled equipment than on CNC gear.) BTW, there's a Fifth Method: find the laziest person skilled enough to understand what you're looking for and hand HIM/HER the problem (preferably with a deadline). You can rest assured that he/she will find the easy way. grin Distraction, un-direction, mind clearing Breakdown Visualization Top-down/bottom-up Simplification Delegation You understand exactly what I'm trying to say! |
#4
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
"Tom Gardner" wrote in news:Ny3wk.240$Z64.18
@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com: Distraction, un-direction, mind clearing Breakdown Visualization Top-down/bottom-up Simplification Delegation You understand exactly what I'm trying to say! BTDT! grin |
#5
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
In article ,
"RAM³" wrote: BTW, there's a Fifth Method: find the laziest person skilled enough to understand what you're looking for and hand HIM/HER the problem (preferably with a deadline). You can rest assured that he/she will find the easy way. grin It's been said that Necessity is the Mother of Invention. False; Laziness is the true Mother Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/ |
#6
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
In article ,
nick hull wrote: It's been said that Necessity is the Mother of Invention. False; Laziness is the true Mother Old story, supposedly about Henry Ford: While Ford was guiding a visitor through his plant, the visitor saw a guy sitting with his feet up on his desk, apparently half-asleep. The visitor asked Ford how he could tolerate such blatant laziness. Ford replied: "Last year that man came up with ideas that either saved or made me millions of dollars. He's about due for another one or two. He can sit at that desk forever for all I care!" The old Bell Labs/Western Electric supposedly incorporated a pond and a few boats. There were always a few boats out with guys laying back, thinking. Wonder how many improvements came off that pond. |
#7
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 05:11:42 GMT, RAM³ wrote:
"Tom Gardner" wrote in : Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations. Depending upon the individual, there may be several methods. [snip] BTW, there's a Fifth Method: find the laziest person skilled enough to understand what you're looking for and hand HIM/HER the problem (preferably with a deadline). You can rest assured that he/she will find the easy way. grin Probably been posted here before, but this reminds me of the following (taken from Wikipedia): "As Chief of the Army High Command, Hammerstein-Equord oversaw the composition of the German manual on military unit command (Truppenführung), dated 17 October 1933. He originated a special classification scheme for his officers: I divide my officers into four classes; the clever, the lazy, the industrious, and the stupid. Each officer possesses at least two of these qualities. Those who are clever and industrious are fitted for the highest staff appointments. Use can be made of those who are stupid and lazy. The man who is clever and lazy however is for the very highest command; he has the temperament and nerves to deal with all situations. But whoever is stupid and industrious is a menace and must be removed immediately!" p.s. H-E was an ardent anti-Nazi. |
#8
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
"Tom Gardner" wrote in
: On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound. I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized. I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas? Don't even try to force them: they'll either come on their own or they won't come at all. Keep a tape/digital voice recorder handy so that when the idea -does- come you can make a record of it that you can refer back to. A pad of quadrille (graph) paper and something to write/draw with is another good thing to have at hand. Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations. Take time to play "What If" in your head: What if we could extrude our own wire - could we feed it directly into a machine while it was still hot and, if so, could the cutter do double duty as a "pinch" feeder?" Things like that. -- I used to be an anarchist but had to give it up: _far_ too many rules. |
#9
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
"Eregon" Eregon@Saphira.ørg wrote in message ... "Tom Gardner" wrote in : On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound. I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized. I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas? Don't even try to force them: they'll either come on their own or they won't come at all. Keep a tape/digital voice recorder handy so that when the idea -does- come you can make a record of it that you can refer back to. A pad of quadrille (graph) paper and something to write/draw with is another good thing to have at hand. Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations. Take time to play "What If" in your head: What if we could extrude our own wire - could we feed it directly into a machine while it was still hot and, if so, could the cutter do double duty as a "pinch" feeder?" Things like that. -- I used to be an anarchist but had to give it up: _far_ too many rules. Oh yea, I learned a long time ago to have paper and pen within reach at all times. |
#10
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 05:21:50 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Eregon
Eregon@Saphira.ørg quickly quoth: "Tom Gardner" wrote in : On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound. I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized. I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas? Don't even try to force them: they'll either come on their own or they won't come at all. Amen to that. Whenever I try to force invention it always eludes me. The second I let it go and start to really focus on something else, it comes along. That kind of crap screws up vacation days some thing fierce. g Keep a tape/digital voice recorder handy so that when the idea -does- come you can make a record of it that you can refer back to. BTDT. You'll keep it with you only if you hang it from a strap around your neck. Otherwise, it's never where you are. A pad of quadrille (graph) paper and something to write/draw with is another good thing to have at hand. Staples has dozen-packs of legal pads for $5.99 or a dozen 5x8" pads for $4.49. I keep a pack of each strewn all aroudn the house, shop, and vehicle. I write down ideas wherever I come across them. Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations. Take time to play "What If" in your head: What if we could extrude our own wire - could we feed it directly into a machine while it was still hot and, if so, could the cutter do double duty as a "pinch" feeder?" Things like that. Ditto getting a pad and drawing/doodling. Alternatively, get on a computer with a copy of CAD, CAM, or SketchUp and draw it to scale. -- Who is wise? He that learns from every One. Who is powerful? He that governs his Passions. Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? Nobody. -- Benjamin Franklin |
#11
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 00:24:26 -0400, "Tom Gardner"
wrote: On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound. I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized. I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas? Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? There are a bunch of methods. Consultants make big bucks devising and presenting various silver-bullet schemes. They're all pretty much uncommon sense but managers who never had an original idea in their lives are easy marks for these pitchmen. I think a very good way to do this is to identify someone who is naturally good at it, however irritating they might be, and try to learn a bit how they do it by observing them. Hurt yer head a bit, have damage containment measures thought out in advance. A key trick is not to suppress creativity. Really! If you have a strong need to be viewed as "The Leader" or "The Mind", you'll suppress some very creative but non-assertive folks. You've said before that you enjoy arguments. Some don't, particularly with the boss. Based on stuff you've written before, You might need to subordinate self to mission to achieve what you say you'd like to achieve, and you might have a bit of difficulty doing that. Stick your ego in a drawer and lock it. Then be patient because smart folks are suspicious of changes in behavior. Give it at least months. Study how small children approach problems. There is nobody more creative than a child. I'm not kidding! You need to adapt of course, but little kids naturally think out of the box because they've not yet been indoctrinated into paradigm paralysis. Avoid PhD's. I've known a couple of very creative PhD's but most of them had all the creativity beat out of them by the educational process. Winning a PhD is often more a matter of endurance than brilliance, albeit with some very notable exceptions. Warning: creative people tend to be "wierd", and they can be hugely irritating to some. How do I know this? I ran a skunk works for 15 years. I picked up talent off the layoff list, people that were regarded as "unmanagable". My own personnel folder had a flag saying "unmanagable". Everyone in my little band of mavericks won at least one patent, most had several. Two of them won the corp's highest awards for technical achievement though neither of them had engineering degrees at the time. I won a bunch of patents, domestic and foreign. Coupla dozen I guess. I deliberately avoided filing any disclosures during the 15 years I ran the skunkworks because I wanted it very clear that I was not in competition with my teammates. I diverted my creativity toward defending my team from bureaucratic bull****. That was fun! I irritated the hell out ofsome folks, not intentionally but **** happens. They chose to be irritated. Having fun was high on the priority list for my little band of mavericks. None of us got rich. None of us cared. Our next reunion is scheduled to happen in a couple of weeks. Khanh Vu is coordinating. I wasn't supposed to hire Khanh, she was a check-the-box minority interview. I got yelled at by H.R. for actually hiring her. She didn't speak English as well as most applicants. She'd been in charge of a lot of stuff in Saigon, was on the last plane out with a 50,000 piaster price on her head. I liked her attitude: "no probrem!" "OK, but how will you accomplish your assignment?" "I don't know yet, no probrem." (You're hired!) She became a teammate very quickly. |
#12
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
In article ,
Don Foreman wrote: I wasn't supposed to hire Khanh, she was a check-the-box minority interview. I got yelled at by H.R. for actually hiring her. She didn't speak English as well as most applicants. She'd been in charge of a lot of stuff in Saigon, was on the last plane out with a 50,000 piaster price on her head. I liked her attitude: "no probrem!" "OK, but how will you accomplish your assignment?" "I don't know yet, no probrem." (You're hired!) She became a teammate very quickly. Thereby showing great wisdom. That one answer would have done it for me too. "I don't know yet, no problem:" priceless! |
#13
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
Don Foreman wrote:
How do I know this? I ran a skunk works for 15 years. I picked up talent off the layoff list, people that were regarded as "unmanagable". Cool! You've got to tell us more stories about this - unless this is the kind of skunk works where you'd have to kill us after telling us. Jon |
#14
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 11:36:54 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote: Don Foreman wrote: How do I know this? I ran a skunk works for 15 years. I picked up talent off the layoff list, people that were regarded as "unmanagable". Cool! You've got to tell us more stories about this - unless this is the kind of skunk works where you'd have to kill us after telling us. Jon Had one project where the customer wanted a weekly teleconference in which we would "go over" a project plan in Microsoft Project in excruciating detail. Our team M.O. was to meet as often as necessary and as briefly as necessary, often 10 minutes. Our "project plan" was on a whiteboard. **** happens every day on a project with very aggressive schedule and budget. The goals, mission, specs and deliverables were graven in stone very early -- we wouldn't start work until they were -- but we would not accept process constraints about how to get it done. I asked Khanh my admin asst (some thought she was a secretary) to go find a copy of MS Project, learn to use it, and make up a plausible project plan from the white board. It could be a complete fabrication as long as it was plausible. "No probrem!" Took her about a day to figure out M.S. Project from a cold start. She then made something up I sent to the customer's micromanaging twit. He was delighted with it! We reviewed the crap out of it every Monday morning by telecon while my team was free to keep solving the problem. Khanh maintained the bogus plan between telecons, thus doing the job of several engineers and at least one manager in the customary corporate mindset. Took her about an hour a week. ------ The leased building we were in was sadly underdesigned in terms of air conditioning capacity for the instruments and computers in our lab. I'd been bitching to the controller for weeks about it, got the usual "he'd look into that". He, of course, did nothing because he'd built a career on letting things become crisis and then being seen as the savior by minimizing damage. No glory in avoiding crises in the first place. Two things that did get the controller's attention we 1) the burden rate 2) his precious image with the V.P. Fixing the A/C would cost a burden buck. I needed to find a way to make fixing the A/C more attractive to him than not fixing it. One July day it was over 90 in the lab by 10 AM. Enough already. I told my teammates that they were free to take the rest of the day off and charge burden, write "unhealthy working conditions" on their timecards and take their kids to a ball game or go fishing or whatever. I then went to Grainger and bought 2 powerful fans, 3600 CFM each I think. ( Charged them to burden, of course.) I opened the fire door to admit fresh outside air and aimed the fans down the hall toward mahogany row. The fans sounded like a DC-3 trying to take off and oh Son did they move some air! Within 20 minutes the temp in the V.P's office had become untenable to him, poor baby. He came stalking into my area, said "Foreman, what the HELL is going on here ... and where are all your people?" Wull, I politely 'splained it to him, since he asked and all. Dang nice of him to ask, right? He looked ready to explode ... and then he started laughing and went back toward Mahoganyville shaking his head. The controller miraculously got an HVAC contractor on the job within an hour and the problem was solved before sundown. Whaddaguy. Funny how things work some days... The controller did not nominate me for poster boy of the year. Go figure. |
#15
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
Take your crew out for a pizza one day and announce that you are going to
have an idea contest. The concept here is to let the crew that sits and stares at the machinery all day long put forward ideas to increase profitability. Then offer to share some of the increased profits with those ideas that are implemented and make the company more money. I seem to recall that Henry Ford did this, and some of the best ideas came from very surprising sources. -- Roger Shoaf About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then they come up with this striped stuff. "Tom Gardner" wrote in message ... On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound. I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized. I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas? Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations. |
#16
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 00:24:26 -0400, "Tom Gardner"
wrote: On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound. I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized. I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas? Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations. Listening helps a lot. I mean really listening, not forming counter-arguments in your mind while somebody's talking. The other thing is to take the ego out of it. People love to talk about their stuff if they think you're there to help instead of take credit. I do this stuff a little, in addition to my project work. Supervision will send me to a lab where progress is not being made, or they don't think things are going the right direction. Mostly, I just go, drink coffee, bull****, and convince the recipients of the "help" that I really don't give a damn about the credit. That part's easy, because I don't. Then I watch, listen, and ask questions when I don't understand something. My experience is they'll usually tell me exactly what's wrong during the first day, sometimes the first hour. The last time, I told them I could help, and how, designed the fix (a better controlled tiny reactor), had it built, flew back with it and helped them install it. They were off to the races, and it was their project. I got out of there. Except they had some other cool ideas so I built them some other stuff to help them get more experiments done. It was fun. Pete Keillor |
#17
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
On Sep 5, 12:24 am, "Tom Gardner" wrote:
On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound. I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized. I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas? Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations. One way is to take the preferred/1st method and think about what you'd do as a backup because 'that' machine is out of service, or 'that' process will damage the workpiece. Dave |
#18
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
Tom Gardner wrote:
On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound. I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized. I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas? Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations. I don't think that can be either taught or learned, it is one of those things that some have and others don't. ...lew... |
#19
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 08:30:15 -0600, with neither quill nor qualm, Lew
Hartswick quickly quoth: Tom Gardner wrote: On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound. I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized. I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas? Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations. I don't think that can be either taught or learned, it is one of those things that some have and others don't. I disagree to some extent, Lew. (Can you handle that capital in your name, dude? I think everyone is both psychic and creative, but most have simply had this muffled, usually during their schooling, where "everyone has to fit in." Peers who have had the same stifling upbringing are also now born and bred quenchers of ideas, either by social code or by ego. (If I'm not allowed to think it, you aren't, either!) But most creative people can't do so under stresses like time limits or strict performance requirements. True creativity is a fleeting thing, and even a slight nudge or restriction can knock it out of kilter. The subconscious mind continues working on problems while we do other things. That's why so many ideas come to us after we have given up on them and moved to other tasks. Self-confidence works wonders on creativity, but it has to be earned by the mind needing it, not given by someone else. Encouragement helps, like Pete said (+ removing your ego from their project), but it's the mind doing the work which needs to process things. As to learning creativity, I think that's merely uncovering the muffler society has put on us, then unraveling it to get to our own kernel of truth and wonder. -- Who is wise? He that learns from every One. Who is powerful? He that governs his Passions. Who is rich? He that is content. Who is that? Nobody. -- Benjamin Franklin |
#20
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
Don Foreman and Pete Keillor have already presented excellent
recommendations. Let's look at some of the starting assumptions: 1. This is a group-think approach - everyone leaves their title and authority at the door. Pulling rank stifles creativity. 2. The hard facts and the negotiable concerns are written on a board where all can see. There will be no surprises at the end to kill an otherwise good idea. 3. Courtesy and respect are obviously present. There are no "crazy" ideas. Just write them down and move on. Each speaker has a time limit and is not interrupted unless they choose to invite another person to speak. 4. There's always a contrarian in the crowd. That's usually me. Questions as to why something has to be done a certain way. Just like a person's first day on the job. Question assumptions. 5. There is a moderator/facilitator for the discussion and it's not a manager. It's someone who has that skill to ensure that each has his say but no more. 6. Closure is essential. The ideas presented and the ones selected are written and all participants get a copy. The attendees are listed. It is a form of "recognition" for their participation. A truly great discussion is the result of polite presentation of apparently conflicting ideas that ends with consensus. I realize that personalities and egos are at stake. Those get left at the door as well. A person is not "bad" for making a suggestion or asking a question that does not work. Just keep a time limit on it. Tom On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 00:24:26 -0400, "Tom Gardner" wrote: On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound. I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized. I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas? Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations. ---- Posted via Pronews.com - Premium Corporate Usenet News Provider ---- http://www.pronews.com offers corporate packages that have access to 100,000+ newsgroups |
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
On Sep 5, 12:24*am, "Tom Gardner" wrote:
Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? * Write out a complete description of the problem as if you were explaining it to a new person. This forces you to examine every aspect of it. I think up a lot of new ideas while composing postings here. |
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
My experience was that solutions to problems often popped up after leaving
work and overnight when the day's pressures were off. I suggest having your staff brain-storming sessions first thing in the morning when everyone is fresh and rested (and never at the end of the day when they're tired and just want to go home). Include the secretary and the floor sweeper; sometimes these folks know a lot more about what's really going on than they're given credit for. There is a tendency in brain-storming sessions for the natural-born critics to jump on every new idea and expound at length on why it won't work. Don't allow this (at least not beyond the point where the identification of legitimate considerations are being politely identified). Criticism and censure stifle the expression of thoughts formed "outside the box". David Merrill "Tom Gardner" wrote in message ... On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound. I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized. I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas? Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations. |
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
Tom,
This is a great question and I very much enjoyed the replies.My observations pretty much follows the other replies, but I would like to add one other observation. Engineers are born engineers. Universities do not make engineers, they give engineers tool bags. If a graduate did not arrive at the school an engineer, he will not leave as one either. Too many very valuable people have been excluded from opportunities simply because they did not possess a sheepskin. Steve "Tom Gardner" wrote in message ... On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound. I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized. I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas? Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations. |
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Tom, This is a great question and I very much enjoyed the replies.My observations pretty much follows the other replies, but I would like to add one other observation. Engineers are born engineers. Universities do not make engineers, they give engineers tool bags. If a graduate did not arrive at the school an engineer, he will not leave as one either. Too many very valuable people have been excluded from opportunities simply because they did not possess a sheepskin. Steve Boy and how. I can relate to that. Saw it for 20 years at the Electronics place I worked at way back when. 1950 - 1979 ...lew... |
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
"Tom Gardner" wrote in message ... On one of my recent posts, snip Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations. Could I recommend a look at: http://www.edwdebono.com/ Many years ago I taught a CoRT course (google on Edward de Bono) to grade 5/6 students in a rural area of British Columbia - we did it for 2 years I believe. Honestly I don't know what effect it had on the students, I can only report on some of the results I saw. One of the lessons had the question "What would it be like if all the cars in the world were painted yellow?" and the students, in their groups of about 5 (including one acting as recorder) had to voice all their ideas under the headings "Good, Bad, Interesting". I imagine many of you could come up with similar answers to those which the students brought out(remember - grade 5/6); however one student thought, under Interesting, that it "would sure make funerals brighter and cheerier". Not a particularly bright student at that. Similar rules to those mentioned in other posts - no "Man, that's stupid", no putting down, all ideas are valid initially. My recollection is that in the example above there were over 60 DIFFERENT responses out of a class of 24 kiddies. Unfortunately things changed and the idea of actually teaching thinking was dropped by the wayside. I would tell the English and Social Studies teachers especially, what we were looking at each week and encourage them to use that as a basis for their class assignments. eg. OPV (other people's viewpoint), perhaps you're teaching the settling of the West, give the kids an assignment perhaps "You're a Cree from Saskatchewan and you hear about these 'blue eyes' coming - what is your response to this?" You see the point. Hard to get other teachers to get into this though, and that's where I feel I missed out - and the kids. So, yes! there are formal methods to help you think differently, much more fun (now there's a mis-used word) in a group though. HTH, Mike in BC |
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
If you are feeling low on creativity, there is a few techniques that
can easily compensate and help a lot. Here are some. 1. Gather more data to get a better decision 2. Consider things systematically, without missing possibilities or making unproven assumptions. 3. Try various things instead of assuming that only one will work 4. Think about you problem more intensively. 5. To not dismiss things as too difficult too quickly i |
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
"Ignoramus29627" wrote in message ... If you are feeling low on creativity, there is a few techniques that can easily compensate and help a lot. Here are some. 1. Gather more data to get a better decision 2. Consider things systematically, without missing possibilities or making unproven assumptions. 3. Try various things instead of assuming that only one will work 4. Think about you problem more intensively. 5. To not dismiss things as too difficult too quickly i Bada-boom, bada-bing! |
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
Tom Gardner wrote:
On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound. I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized. I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas? Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations. I won't name anybody here, but there's this guy on this group you might want to talk to about that. He comes up with very clever and incredible ways of doing simple things in new ways. |
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
This is really TWO subjects: 1.) How do you think of good ideas? 2.) How
do you encourage creative thinking in others? The second one has been well addressed by most of you. The first is more difficult. Some people spontneously bring various viewpoints to the problem, and automatically go into a "what if" mode when somethingt needs to be done. These same people go into a "what if" mode when they see something being done in the same old way. I think this is a talent, not easily taught. The mind keeps working on a problem even when you are not aware of it--even in your sleep. If you are not satisfied with the answer you have, don't be in a rush. An inspiration may jump into your mind when you least expect it. And then you'll say, "Why didn't I think of that in the first place?" |
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
On Sep 5, 1:40 pm, "Leo Lichtman" wrote:
This is really TWO subjects: 1.) How do you think of good ideas? 2.) How do you encourage creative thinking in others? The second one has been well addressed by most of you. The first is more difficult. Some people spontneously bring various viewpoints to the problem, and automatically go into a "what if" mode when somethingt needs to be done. These same people go into a "what if" mode when they see something being done in the same old way. I think this is a talent, not easily taught. The mind keeps working on a problem even when you are not aware of it--even in your sleep. If you are not satisfied with the answer you have, don't be in a rush. An inspiration may jump into your mind when you least expect it. And then you'll say, "Why didn't I think of that in the first place?" Tom, The formal name for the process you are looking for is "Brain Storming". Books have been written on this topic and I was fortunate enough to partake in a 'session' thereof during my apprenticeship years. Most informative and productive. Other people I have worked for tried it without success because of snide remarks and criticisms too early in the process. One of the most important points is to list all the "must have" or "must comply" items clearly, and have agreement on these by most members of the team. Unless this is done the flow of ideas will constantly be interrupted with "what about this need" or "you forgot about that spec." etc. To weed these down you can apply the "why, why, why" method of analysis. The idea is that if you ask 'why' to each of the three or four successive answers, you will then have arrived at the "real" reason why things are done that way. Many sacred cows get slaughtered this way! Ideally the session is in a non-formal environment... a park, back- forties, den, whatever. Flip-over charts for writing on are necessary. Then, solicit ideas, not solutions. Write them down. If necessary "seed" a few yourself, this gets the flow going. MOST IMPORTANT: ABSOLUTELY NO CRITICISM OR DEBATE IS PERMITTED during this 'generating phase', because nothing will kill this flow of ideas faster than snide or belittling remarks. All ideas are useful during this phase because they stimulate the thinking of all involved that are awake:-)). After this phase sort out the ideas, by consensus initially, in the order of most practical/useful, to least practical, applying the critiques established earlier. List positives and negatives for each. Then work through them on how to implement them and the costs of doing so. To help generate ideas draw a matrix with problems listed down the left-hand column and possible solutions thereto across the top, one solution per column heading. Then each intersection can be reviewed for applicability of that problem/solution combination using earlier criterion. Of course there will be many "nonsense" intersections but there can be surprising results. Good luck with this and keep us informed. On this team business... As head of a major corporate project team (title changed as did management) I once took on 2 people that were about to get fired by their respective department heads. I head dealt briefly with each person and found them helpful as opposed to obstructionist. To cut a long story short, after several years in my department one of them became the chief of a new department providing scheduling services to all other departments; The other person had such a good offer from his former manager that he decided to go back. I didn't mind. Of course I had a management philosophy that I enjoyed as having applied to me (Just tell me what you need and then p**s off until I get it done) and I found that it produced results for me, also, with minor adjustments for the individual. Needless to say this got me into s**t with upper management who thought that I provided "insufficient" supervision. But nary a word about the drastic increases in margin. That's why I now run my 1 man band. Wolfgang |
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
On Sep 5, 3:55 pm, wrote:
On Sep 5, 1:40 pm, "Leo Lichtman" wrote: This is really TWO subjects: 1.) How do you think of good ideas? 2.) How do you encourage creative thinking in others? The second one has been well addressed by most of you. The first is more difficult. Some people spontneously bring various viewpoints to the problem, and automatically go into a "what if" mode when somethingt needs to be done. These same people go into a "what if" mode when they see something being done in the same old way. I think this is a talent, not easily taught. The mind keeps working on a problem even when you are not aware of it--even in your sleep. If you are not satisfied with the answer you have, don't be in a rush. An inspiration may jump into your mind when you least expect it. And then you'll say, "Why didn't I think of that in the first place?" Tom, The formal name for the process you are looking for is "Brain Storming". Books have been written on this topic and I was fortunate enough to partake in a 'session' thereof during my apprenticeship years. Most informative and productive. Other people I have worked for tried it without success because of snide remarks and criticisms too early in the process. One of the most important points is to list all the "must have" or "must comply" items clearly, and have agreement on these by most members of the team. Unless this is done the flow of ideas will constantly be interrupted with "what about this need" or "you forgot about that spec." etc. To weed these down you can apply the "why, why, why" method of analysis. The idea is that if you ask 'why' to each of the three or four successive answers, you will then have arrived at the "real" reason why things are done that way. Many sacred cows get slaughtered this way! Ideally the session is in a non-formal environment... a park, back- forties, den, whatever. Flip-over charts for writing on are necessary. Then, solicit ideas, not solutions. Write them down. If necessary "seed" a few yourself, this gets the flow going. MOST IMPORTANT: ABSOLUTELY NO CRITICISM OR DEBATE IS PERMITTED during this 'generating phase', because nothing will kill this flow of ideas faster than snide or belittling remarks. All ideas are useful during this phase because they stimulate the thinking of all involved that are awake:-)). After this phase sort out the ideas, by consensus initially, in the order of most practical/useful, to least practical, applying the critiques established earlier. List positives and negatives for each. Then work through them on how to implement them and the costs of doing so. To help generate ideas draw a matrix with problems listed down the left-hand column and possible solutions thereto across the top, one solution per column heading. Then each intersection can be reviewed for applicability of that problem/solution combination using earlier criterion. Of course there will be many "nonsense" intersections but there can be surprising results. Good luck with this and keep us informed. On this team business... As head of a major corporate project team (title changed as did management) I once took on 2 people that were about to get fired by their respective department heads. I head dealt briefly with each person and found them helpful as opposed to obstructionist. To cut a long story short, after several years in my department one of them became the chief of a new department providing scheduling services to all other departments; The other person had such a good offer from his former manager that he decided to go back. I didn't mind. Of course I had a management philosophy that I enjoyed as having applied to me (Just tell me what you need and then p**s off until I get it done) and I found that it produced results for me, also, with minor adjustments for the individual. Needless to say this got me into s**t with upper management who thought that I provided "insufficient" supervision. But nary a word about the drastic increases in margin. That's why I now run my 1 man band. Wolfgang A couple of additional thoughts on my post above: As I said books have been written on Brain Storming and, of necessity, my brief illustration barely scratches the surface of this topic. But it should be sufficient to get started on Brain Storming. The style of many "managers" is called "micro management", and it sucks because there are not enough hours in the day to address all "micro crises". When I wanted a task done I explained it, asked questions to verify understanding, got agreement on timing and progress points, then let the man run with it. I sure as h**l did not look over people's shoulder asking "how is it going?" or "you're doing it all wrong!" :-)). Every morning I'd walk around, see what was being done or not done, ask "do you need anything?", etc. I encouraged people to come to my office with concerns and ideas, and I believed that my principal job was to remove all excuses people would dream up for not doing their job. I also kept good notes on meetings, discussions, agreements, etc. including names, dates, time, subject, & agreement / course of action. Anyway, it worked for me and the results spoke for themselves. Never got criticized for the results, just the methods because it "wasn't the way to manage things." Go figure. Wolfgang |
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
wrote in message ... On Sep 5, 3:55 pm, wrote: On Sep 5, 1:40 pm, "Leo Lichtman" wrote: This is really TWO subjects: 1.) How do you think of good ideas? 2.) How do you encourage creative thinking in others? The second one has been well addressed by most of you. The first is more difficult. Some people spontneously bring various viewpoints to the problem, and automatically go into a "what if" mode when somethingt needs to be done. These same people go into a "what if" mode when they see something being done in the same old way. I think this is a talent, not easily taught. The mind keeps working on a problem even when you are not aware of it--even in your sleep. If you are not satisfied with the answer you have, don't be in a rush. An inspiration may jump into your mind when you least expect it. And then you'll say, "Why didn't I think of that in the first place?" Tom, The formal name for the process you are looking for is "Brain Storming". Books have been written on this topic and I was fortunate enough to partake in a 'session' thereof during my apprenticeship years. Most informative and productive. Other people I have worked for tried it without success because of snide remarks and criticisms too early in the process. One of the most important points is to list all the "must have" or "must comply" items clearly, and have agreement on these by most members of the team. Unless this is done the flow of ideas will constantly be interrupted with "what about this need" or "you forgot about that spec." etc. To weed these down you can apply the "why, why, why" method of analysis. The idea is that if you ask 'why' to each of the three or four successive answers, you will then have arrived at the "real" reason why things are done that way. Many sacred cows get slaughtered this way! Ideally the session is in a non-formal environment... a park, back- forties, den, whatever. Flip-over charts for writing on are necessary. Then, solicit ideas, not solutions. Write them down. If necessary "seed" a few yourself, this gets the flow going. MOST IMPORTANT: ABSOLUTELY NO CRITICISM OR DEBATE IS PERMITTED during this 'generating phase', because nothing will kill this flow of ideas faster than snide or belittling remarks. All ideas are useful during this phase because they stimulate the thinking of all involved that are awake:-)). After this phase sort out the ideas, by consensus initially, in the order of most practical/useful, to least practical, applying the critiques established earlier. List positives and negatives for each. Then work through them on how to implement them and the costs of doing so. To help generate ideas draw a matrix with problems listed down the left-hand column and possible solutions thereto across the top, one solution per column heading. Then each intersection can be reviewed for applicability of that problem/solution combination using earlier criterion. Of course there will be many "nonsense" intersections but there can be surprising results. Good luck with this and keep us informed. On this team business... As head of a major corporate project team (title changed as did management) I once took on 2 people that were about to get fired by their respective department heads. I head dealt briefly with each person and found them helpful as opposed to obstructionist. To cut a long story short, after several years in my department one of them became the chief of a new department providing scheduling services to all other departments; The other person had such a good offer from his former manager that he decided to go back. I didn't mind. Of course I had a management philosophy that I enjoyed as having applied to me (Just tell me what you need and then p**s off until I get it done) and I found that it produced results for me, also, with minor adjustments for the individual. Needless to say this got me into s**t with upper management who thought that I provided "insufficient" supervision. But nary a word about the drastic increases in margin. That's why I now run my 1 man band. Wolfgang A couple of additional thoughts on my post above: As I said books have been written on Brain Storming and, of necessity, my brief illustration barely scratches the surface of this topic. But it should be sufficient to get started on Brain Storming. The style of many "managers" is called "micro management", and it sucks because there are not enough hours in the day to address all "micro crises". When I wanted a task done I explained it, asked questions to verify understanding, got agreement on timing and progress points, then let the man run with it. I sure as h**l did not look over people's shoulder asking "how is it going?" or "you're doing it all wrong!" :-)). Every morning I'd walk around, see what was being done or not done, ask "do you need anything?", etc. I encouraged people to come to my office with concerns and ideas, and I believed that my principal job was to remove all excuses people would dream up for not doing their job. I also kept good notes on meetings, discussions, agreements, etc. including names, dates, time, subject, & agreement / course of action. Anyway, it worked for me and the results spoke for themselves. Never got criticized for the results, just the methods because it "wasn't the way to manage things." Go figure. Wolfgang Fascinating! Thanks. |
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
On Sep 5, 3:55 pm, wrote:
.... The formal name for the process you are looking for is "Brain Storming".... Wolfgang This is the informal version; http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060807-7438.html Some truly amazing ideas show up on Frog Day. it's Junkyard Challenge with embedded intelligence. Another company had a stockroom signout code for home projects. I built my first computer out of their stock components and engineering samples. That idea probably works better in a place that's always trying to stay ahead of the market and needs innovation. |
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
Excellent analysis of the request, Leo.
"How do you think of good ideas?" Let me state it another way: How does one gather the right sort of information to feed the subconscious mind? a. Understand the problem but don't take it too seriously. Ask questions and listen to the answers. b. Approach the issues with a helpful, humble attitude. Gain collaboration with others who have the knowledge you need. c. Do not try to sort it out mentally. Let the facts speak for themselves. d. Find someone to bounce the ideas against. They don't even need to know anything about the situation. Tom On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:40:36 GMT, "Leo Lichtman" wrote: This is really TWO subjects: 1.) How do you think of good ideas? 2.) How do you encourage creative thinking in others? The second one has been well addressed by most of you. The first is more difficult. Some people spontneously bring various viewpoints to the problem, and automatically go into a "what if" mode when somethingt needs to be done. These same people go into a "what if" mode when they see something being done in the same old way. I think this is a talent, not easily taught. The mind keeps working on a problem even when you are not aware of it--even in your sleep. If you are not satisfied with the answer you have, don't be in a rush. An inspiration may jump into your mind when you least expect it. And then you'll say, "Why didn't I think of that in the first place?" ---- Posted via Pronews.com - Premium Corporate Usenet News Provider ---- http://www.pronews.com offers corporate packages that have access to 100,000+ newsgroups |
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
"Leo Lichtman" wrote in message news This is really TWO subjects: 1.) How do you think of good ideas? 2.) How do you encourage creative thinking in others? The second one has been well addressed by most of you. The first is more difficult. Some people spontneously bring various viewpoints to the problem, and automatically go into a "what if" mode when somethingt needs to be done. These same people go into a "what if" mode when they see something being done in the same old way. I think this is a talent, not easily taught. The mind keeps working on a problem even when you are not aware of it--even in your sleep. If you are not satisfied with the answer you have, don't be in a rush. An inspiration may jump into your mind when you least expect it. And then you'll say, "Why didn't I think of that in the first place?" We had been trying to come up with a way of producing "ring and flange" wire wheel brushes for over 30 years, that includes my uncles who were geniuses in their own rights. One afternoon in Canada, while fishing in a small boat in a torrential downpour. I was snug in my Gor-Tex and I couldn't see my buddy that was five feet away, never before or since have I seen it rain that hard. For some reason, the method of making those brushes popped into my head in absolute clarity. The machine is so simple and robust, and it was inexpensive to build. Why didn't I think of that in the first place? |
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
Tom Gardner wrote: "Leo Lichtman" wrote in message news This is really TWO subjects: 1.) How do you think of good ideas? 2.) How do you encourage creative thinking in others? The second one has been well addressed by most of you. The first is more difficult. Some people spontneously bring various viewpoints to the problem, and automatically go into a "what if" mode when somethingt needs to be done. These same people go into a "what if" mode when they see something being done in the same old way. I think this is a talent, not easily taught. The mind keeps working on a problem even when you are not aware of it--even in your sleep. If you are not satisfied with the answer you have, don't be in a rush. An inspiration may jump into your mind when you least expect it. And then you'll say, "Why didn't I think of that in the first place?" We had been trying to come up with a way of producing "ring and flange" wire wheel brushes for over 30 years, that includes my uncles who were geniuses in their own rights. One afternoon in Canada, while fishing in a small boat in a torrential downpour. I was snug in my Gor-Tex and I couldn't see my buddy that was five feet away, never before or since have I seen it rain that hard. For some reason, the method of making those brushes popped into my head in absolute clarity. The machine is so simple and robust, and it was inexpensive to build. Why didn't I think of that in the first place? The time wasn't right. You had to learn enough about the process for it to become crystal clear in your mind. Everything looks simple, when you know what you're doing! ;-) -- http://improve-usenet.org/index.html aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white listed, or I will not see your messages. If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm There are two kinds of people on this earth: The crazy, and the insane. The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy. |
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message m... Tom Gardner wrote: "Leo Lichtman" wrote in message news This is really TWO subjects: 1.) How do you think of good ideas? 2.) How do you encourage creative thinking in others? The second one has been well addressed by most of you. The first is more difficult. Some people spontneously bring various viewpoints to the problem, and automatically go into a "what if" mode when somethingt needs to be done. These same people go into a "what if" mode when they see something being done in the same old way. I think this is a talent, not easily taught. The mind keeps working on a problem even when you are not aware of it--even in your sleep. If you are not satisfied with the answer you have, don't be in a rush. An inspiration may jump into your mind when you least expect it. And then you'll say, "Why didn't I think of that in the first place?" We had been trying to come up with a way of producing "ring and flange" wire wheel brushes for over 30 years, that includes my uncles who were geniuses in their own rights. One afternoon in Canada, while fishing in a small boat in a torrential downpour. I was snug in my Gor-Tex and I couldn't see my buddy that was five feet away, never before or since have I seen it rain that hard. For some reason, the method of making those brushes popped into my head in absolute clarity. The machine is so simple and robust, and it was inexpensive to build. Why didn't I think of that in the first place? The time wasn't right. You had to learn enough about the process for it to become crystal clear in your mind. Everything looks simple, when you know what you're doing! ;-) You're right! After 36 years in this stupid, tiny industry, I guess enough has sunk in that I pretend I know what I'm doing and I guess I've become an adequate brushmaker. |
#38
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
Tom Gardner wrote: Michael A. Terrell wrote: The time wasn't right. You had to learn enough about the process for it to become crystal clear in your mind. Everything looks simple, when you know what you're doing! ;-) You're right! After 36 years in this stupid, tiny industry, I guess enough has sunk in that I pretend I know what I'm doing and I guess I've become an adequate brushmaker. More than adequate. You are still in business, and most of the other guys are long gone. It's still a matter of timing. when that final detail becomes clear, and things all come together. Don't sell yourself short. You are in a business with a traditional manufacturing process, where change comes slow. If you had spare machines you could experiment with new ideas, but most companies wouldn't even allow a scaled down prototype, or to test an idea on an existing machine. My dad worked 25 years in the corrugated box industry in Ohio. Some of the machines were over 100 years old. They had a staff of machinists to make replacement parts, to keep them running. They didn't consider modernizing, until customers wanted bigger, one piece boxes. They gambled over a million dollars on a new machine, and it took a couple years to get it to full production. Then they started updating their other plants. It's the same in your business. It's fun to design new machines and test new ideas, but it can't get in the way of day to day production. Have you ever considered an online store for small orders? Even an Ebay or Yahoo store would help get the word out to people who have no clue that an American made brush was still available. BTW, you need to update the copyright date on your website. Some people consider a site abandoned when it is eight years out of date, and it could cost you some sales. Also, your page counter software from Bravenet is displaying an error message. I know they are minor details, but you want to keep up your image of top quality. -- http://improve-usenet.org/index.html aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white listed, or I will not see your messages. If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm There are two kinds of people on this earth: The crazy, and the insane. The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy. |
#39
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
Tom Gardner wrote:
On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound. I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized. I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas? Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations. In my last position as a supervisor we would hold a monthly meeting with the corporate folks. That was the typical "We need to think outside the box" type meeting. Complete with PowerPoint profit and loss charts and the standard "We MUST increase productivity". What got done NOTHING. The REAL idea meetings were the ones most of the supervisors would have within our own folks. Those were the ones where we would bring in pizza and arrange for service coverage with other folks so everyone could come in. Then they were told that anything goes. No formal records were kept, unless it was an idea that actually seemed like it would work. I was also a big fan of "Just DO it" IOW if you came up with something that worked and made life easier spread it around. -- Steve W. Near Cooperstown, New York |
#40
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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differentiated thought before cutting metal
On Sep 5, 4:31 pm, "Steve W." wrote:
Tom Gardner wrote: On one of my recent posts, you kind people pointed out that there are many ways of doing something. Simple observations are often the most profound. I'm not a master at being able to see a problem from different angles and visualize different solutions. It seems that some parts of one idea affect another so the ideas are not independent, not "clean" and compartmentalized. I met with my guys today and discussed if we could figure out how to think about different ways of doing things we are developing. I want multiple solutions presented and thinking out of the box. It seems there is always a brute-force method of doing something yet the "other" idea, the one that springs into existence at the odd hour, is often better, cheaper and more elegant. How do you attract those "other" ideas? Is there a method or exercises to develop creative thinking? Cutting metal and drilling holes is the easy part, how do you completely forget an idea in order to "see" a new idea? This may come easily for an intelligent person but I struggle with my mental limitations. In my last position as a supervisor we would hold a monthly meeting with the corporate folks. That was the typical "We need to think outside the box" type meeting. Complete with PowerPoint profit and loss charts and the standard "We MUST increase productivity". What got done NOTHING. The REAL idea meetings were the ones most of the supervisors would have within our own folks. Those were the ones where we would bring in pizza and arrange for service coverage with other folks so everyone could come in. Then they were told that anything goes. No formal records were kept, unless it was an idea that actually seemed like it would work. I was also a big fan of "Just DO it" IOW if you came up with something that worked and made life easier spread it around. -- Steve W. Near Cooperstown, New York Steve: Good ideas and cost saving measures from the rank-and-file? NEVER!! Perish that thought!! In my experience by far the biggest cost-saving ideas and improvement suggestions came from first-line supervisory staff. In well-managed corporations these folks really know what they are doing. Wolfgang |
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