I may possibly be facing a situation of getting fired because I only work
48 - 56 hours per week. I was wondering how that works out with
unemployment?

My employer cut employee wages and benefits somewhere around 25%, many left
and those that didn't are being scheduled for overtime. We have a points
system where you get points when you call off or don't show for work, after
so many points, you can be fired.

I just can't see the government giving out unemployment to people that got
fired for not showing up for work when they are working 48, 56, or more
hours per week.

Anyone here faced this?

RogerN

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 09:25:26 -0500, "Roger_N"
wrote:

I may possibly be facing a situation of getting fired because I only work
48 - 56 hours per week. I was wondering how that works out with
unemployment?

My employer cut employee wages and benefits somewhere around 25%, many left
and those that didn't are being scheduled for overtime. We have a points
system where you get points when you call off or don't show for work, after
so many points, you can be fired.

I just can't see the government giving out unemployment to people that got
fired for not showing up for work when they are working 48, 56, or more
hours per week.

Anyone here faced this?

That's impossible - because you can't fire slaves.

"The beatings will continue till morale improves." Sounds like the
company you work for is in a death spiral.

Work as many hours as you can for them so they don't try firing you
for as long as possible. And get your butt in gear about leaving.

And when they ask why you can't stay late on Tuesday or come in on
your scheduled day off, tell the absolute truth - you are going on an
interview for a better job, for better money, working for better
people who treat their staff better.

-- Bruce --

I am a retired guy, so I don't have your problem, but both my boys have
had to face somewhat similar problems lately. One has been told the
they'll all have to work more hours in the future (and he's on salary)
and the other is being offered a lot of overtime. Although not being
told that he'll be fired if he doesn't take it, it's clear that those
who do take it are considered "better" workers.
I tell you this to make the point that as soon as a recession hits
us, many employers seem to use it as an excuse to push the employees
harder. I'd try to keep my nose clean, as the other poster said, while
looking around for a better job. But, keep your concerns to yourself;
don't even mention it at work. Your comments may trickle upward and
then they will find some way to get rid of you as a bad influence.
We have no way of knowing where you are geographically or what
industry you are in. So we can't tell how easy or hard it might be to
get a new or better job.
My direct advice is this (unless you clearly see where you can get a
better job):
-Tell you family that you are all going to have to "hunker down" for a
year or so.
-Do do the overtime. Use every extra money to pay off all credit cards
and outstanding bills asap and get one year of savings into the bank.
-Then, from a position of personal strength, go looking for another job.

I know this is a tough question, but can you look at yourself in the
mirror and ask yourself if there might be any other reason reason that
they want you "out of there"? Not all managers and foreman are well
trained for their jobs. (I'm sure this comes as a total surprise) And
because of this, they may not have the interpersonal skills needed to
directly address issues. So they take the easy road to beating people
over the head with the handiest tool.

At least they aren't telling you to work the extra overtime for no pay!

I don't know it this will help, but take a look at this page on my website:

http://www.spaco.org/layofweb.htm

Pete Stanaitis
--------------------

"Roger_N" wrote:

I may possibly be facing a situation of getting fired because I only work
48 - 56 hours per week. I was wondering how that works out with
unemployment?

56 = 7 x 8 hrs. That is just way too much on a continuous basis. Also
makes it rather difficult to look for another job.

My employer cut employee wages and benefits somewhere around 25%, many left
and those that didn't are being scheduled for overtime. We have a points
system where you get points when you call off or don't show for work, after
so many points, you can be fired.

Sweet. Cut compensation and demand more hours. Where did that many go? Did
they find a better job? How replaceable are you at current wage and benefit
levels?


I just can't see the government giving out unemployment to people that got
fired for not showing up for work when they are working 48, 56, or more
hours per week.

Anyone here faced this?

As far as I can tell, there isn't a federal limit on hours worked as long as
they pay overtime. Now if your job includes driving a company vehicle that
would likely be an exception.

Ask your state unemployment office questions on where you stand if you get
fired for missing days.

Sure wish I could be more helpful. The Republicans are not much help when
it comes to workers rights due to business interest support. The Dems are
not any better since they leave workers rights stuff to the unions that
support them. Don't you love that bipartisanism!


Wes

\\

I'd save a few bucks and hunker down as Pete said and get the hell out of
there. Sounds like a company with cancer. If the mass exodus and pay cut did
not open the controllers eyes expect to see worse things coming. Also you
only live once those hours are for a 18 year old. There is plenty of work
out there. You may be in a different attire (Heck, I did it) You sound like
you are in a rock/hardplace situation. Can you provide more detail on the
state and nature of the business? I have a client who is a labor lawyer who
is a chatter-box and he is always in my shop. I wish you the best in the
tough times you are facing and I hope it turns quickly for you. I'd tell
them I'm interviewing too.... If the ship is sinking at least let them know
your headed for a life raft.


Rob



Fraser Competition Engines
Chicago, IL.

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 10:28:20 -0500, spaco
wrote:
snip
I know this is a tough question, but can you look at yourself in the
mirror and ask yourself if there might be any other reason reason that
they want you "out of there"? Not all managers and foreman are well
trained for their jobs. (I'm sure this comes as a total surprise) And
because of this, they may not have the interpersonal skills needed to
directly address issues. So they take the easy road to beating people
over the head with the handiest tool.

At least they aren't telling you to work the extra overtime for no pay!

I don't know it this will help, but take a look at this page on my website:

http://www.spaco.org/layofweb.htm

Pete Stanaitis
--------------------
One very significant phrase in some good observations is "At
least they aren't telling you to work the extra overtime for no
pay!"

"Unpaid overtime" is becoming an increasingly serious problem in
the US, for not only the employees working the overtime, but the
governmental units that depend on income taxes and payroll taxes
to fund their operations that this unpaid overtime should have
generated. ==Note that this includes social security.==

Some salary [non-paid] overtime *CAN* be justified in an
"emergency," however an "emergency" is defined as an event that's
is unexpected in occupance and limited in duration, *NOT* SOP.

This appears to be a rapidly growing problem at employers big and
small, for blue collar and white collar jobs. For some examples
click on:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in533818.shtml
http://www.statesman.com/news/conten...igworkers.html
http://www.informationweek.com/news/...questid=641060
http://www.informationweek.com/news/...questid=641218
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1174307781602
google on "unpaid overtime" for 138K hits.

Note this is yet another example of a "tilted" playing field,
where some employers get "free labor" and evade taxes, as well as
exploiting their employees.

Under the [US] IRS code, anything of value that you receive is
considered as "income," on which taxes are due, One of the very
few exceptions is the value of unpaid overtime labor -- why?

IMNSHO at the very least, the employer should be forced to pay
the employer's share of social security taxes for the "free"
labor, at the same rate they pay for the paid labor, as well as
income tax on the value of the "free" labor. Don't hold your
breath....


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 09:25:26 -0500, Roger_N wrote:

I may possibly be facing a situation of getting fired because I only
work 48 - 56 hours per week. I was wondering how that works out with
unemployment?

My employer cut employee wages and benefits somewhere around 25%, many
left and those that didn't are being scheduled for overtime. We have a
points system where you get points when you call off or don't show for
work, after so many points, you can be fired.

I just can't see the government giving out unemployment to people that
got fired for not showing up for work when they are working 48, 56, or
more hours per week.

Anyone here faced this?

RogerN

Whether they can do this is depends on where you live. Check with your
state's labor division to see what the law of (your) land is, then try to
find out how well that law is actually enforced.

I could see this as something that would be abhorrent in a blue state
like California or New York, but perfectly acceptable in a red state like
Arizona or Mississippi.

And, as one of the other fellows mentioned -- hunker down, save your
money, look for work if you can, and unless they announce huge raises
soon, get the heck out of there when you can afford it.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

Tim Wescott wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 09:25:26 -0500, Roger_N wrote:

I may possibly be facing a situation of getting fired because I only
work 48 - 56 hours per week. I was wondering how that works out with
unemployment?

My employer cut employee wages and benefits somewhere around 25%,
many left and those that didn't are being scheduled for overtime.
We have a points system where you get points when you call off or
don't show for work, after so many points, you can be fired.

I just can't see the government giving out unemployment to people
that got fired for not showing up for work when they are working 48,
56, or more hours per week.

Anyone here faced this?

RogerN

Whether they can do this is depends on where you live. Check with
your state's labor division to see what the law of (your) land is,
then try to find out how well that law is actually enforced.

I could see this as something that would be abhorrent in a blue state
like California or New York,

California is an "At WIll" State. I can fire someone if I dislike as much as
the color of their socks.


--

John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com

Rob Fraser wrote:
\\

I'd save a few bucks and hunker down as Pete said and get the hell out of
there. Sounds like a company with cancer. If the mass exodus and pay cut did
not open the controllers eyes expect to see worse things coming. Also you
only live once those hours are for a 18 year old. There is plenty of work
out there. You may be in a different attire (Heck, I did it) You sound like
you are in a rock/hardplace situation. Can you provide more detail on the
state and nature of the business? I have a client who is a labor lawyer who
is a chatter-box and he is always in my shop. I wish you the best in the
tough times you are facing and I hope it turns quickly for you. I'd tell
them I'm interviewing too.... If the ship is sinking at least let them know
your headed for a life raft.


Rob



Fraser Competition Engines
Chicago, IL.

Here in Michigan the economy is extremely bad. I work maintenance for a
company that makes home building supplies for both new homes &
remodeling. They keep telling us how they are continually making more
money & setting record profits even in this horrible economy
(countrywide, people are not building new but reworking old property).
Since the economy is SO bad here people are just glad to be working.
With this situation, this company has chosen to eliminate overtime yet
remain open 24/7 with 3 shifts. One department never shuts down. These
people are required to work a continually changing work week so they
only work 40 hours (so no overtime) for a calendar week yet they work
weekends regularly. Maintenance has to work weekdays and 1 guy (rotating
schedules to balance workloads) works the weekend to support the one
department that's always running. We were getting overtime to work the
weekend but this one department cried so now we don't get weekend
overtime unless we work more than 40 hours that week (the law). They
keep our hours down by making us take Monday off the week of our
scheduled weekend.
Just because companies keep screwing their employees doesn't mean
they're a sinking ship or full of cancer.
I've been saying forever: In corporate America it's all about greed.

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 13:41:27 -0700, John R. Carroll wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 09:25:26 -0500, Roger_N wrote:

I may possibly be facing a situation of getting fired because I only
work 48 - 56 hours per week. I was wondering how that works out with
unemployment?

My employer cut employee wages and benefits somewhere around 25%, many
left and those that didn't are being scheduled for overtime. We have a
points system where you get points when you call off or don't show for
work, after so many points, you can be fired.

I just can't see the government giving out unemployment to people that
got fired for not showing up for work when they are working 48, 56, or
more hours per week.

Anyone here faced this?

RogerN

Whether they can do this is depends on where you live. Check with your
state's labor division to see what the law of (your) land is, then try
to find out how well that law is actually enforced.

I could see this as something that would be abhorrent in a blue state
like California or New York,

California is an "At WIll" State. I can fire someone if I dislike as
much as the color of their socks.

And yet it gets accused of being so lefty. That's what I get for
engaging in stereotypes, I guess.

My _real_ point is that labor laws vary widely from state to state, and
even from one industry to the next (farming, specifically, often has its
own set of rules), _and_ practice is often at variance from the law. So
whatever I can say given my experience in Clackamas county, Oregon
doesn't bear much weight in Crook county, much less in Boise or Des
Moines.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

John R. Carroll wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 09:25:26 -0500, Roger_N wrote:

I may possibly be facing a situation of getting fired because I only
work 48 - 56 hours per week. I was wondering how that works out with
unemployment?

My employer cut employee wages and benefits somewhere around 25%,
many left and those that didn't are being scheduled for overtime.
We have a points system where you get points when you call off or
don't show for work, after so many points, you can be fired.

I just can't see the government giving out unemployment to people
that got fired for not showing up for work when they are working 48,
56, or more hours per week.

Anyone here faced this?

RogerN
Whether they can do this is depends on where you live. Check with
your state's labor division to see what the law of (your) land is,
then try to find out how well that law is actually enforced.

I could see this as something that would be abhorrent in a blue state
like California or New York,

California is an "At WIll" State. I can fire someone if I dislike as much as
the color of their socks.

You don't need a reason at all...

Stephen Young wrote:
John R. Carroll wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 09:25:26 -0500, Roger_N wrote:

I may possibly be facing a situation of getting fired because I
only work 48 - 56 hours per week. I was wondering how that works
out with unemployment?

My employer cut employee wages and benefits somewhere around 25%,
many left and those that didn't are being scheduled for overtime.
We have a points system where you get points when you call off or
don't show for work, after so many points, you can be fired.

I just can't see the government giving out unemployment to people
that got fired for not showing up for work when they are working
48, 56, or more hours per week.

Anyone here faced this?

RogerN
Whether they can do this is depends on where you live. Check with
your state's labor division to see what the law of (your) land is,
then try to find out how well that law is actually enforced.

I could see this as something that would be abhorrent in a blue
state like California or New York,

California is an "At WIll" State. I can fire someone if I dislike as
much as the color of their socks.

You don't need a reason at all...

Exactly. The flip side is employees can quit without notice or cause.
The situation isn't actually that simple but if you are an "At Will"
employee the term "with cause" is meaningless.

The one thing everyone can probably agree on is that Roger has a problem. I
don't envy him regardless his place of residence.

--

John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com

On Apr 20, 2:44 pm, Stephen Young wrote:
John R. Carroll wrote:
Tim Wescott wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 09:25:26 -0500, Roger_N wrote:

I may possibly be facing a situation of getting fired because I only
work 48 - 56 hours per week. I was wondering how that works out with
unemployment?

My employer cut employee wages and benefits somewhere around 25%,
many left and those that didn't are being scheduled for overtime.
We have a points system where you get points when you call off or
don't show for work, after so many points, you can be fired.

I just can't see the government giving out unemployment to people
that got fired for not showing up for work when they are working 48,
56, or more hours per week.

Anyone here faced this?

RogerN
Whether they can do this is depends on where you live. Check with
your state's labor division to see what the law of (your) land is,
then try to find out how well that law is actually enforced.

I could see this as something that would be abhorrent in a blue state
like California or New York,

California is an "At WIll" State. I can fire someone if I dislike as much as
the color of their socks.

You don't need a reason at all...

If you really believe that, you might want to confer with your
corporate lawyer. Oregon has the same laws, but our lawyer advises
there are quite a few considerations before you fire someone for what
seems like no reason. The employee's lawyer may discover many possible
reasons and you will find you were better off financially, keeping the
employee. Better to document a valid, uncorrectable, problem with the
employee and get them to sign a voluntary termination document in
exchange for a valid unemployment claim.

Paul in Central Oregon

"Roger_N" wrote in message
m...
I may possibly be facing a situation of getting fired because I only work
48 - 56 hours per week. I was wondering how that works out with
unemployment?

My employer cut employee wages and benefits somewhere around 25%, many
left and those that didn't are being scheduled for overtime. We have a
points system where you get points when you call off or don't show for
work, after so many points, you can be fired.

I just can't see the government giving out unemployment to people that got
fired for not showing up for work when they are working 48, 56, or more
hours per week.

Anyone here faced this?

RogerN


Like others have said, it sounds like time to move on.
I worked as a salary employee years ago. I was told when hired that I was
expected to work 40-45 hours a week, plus any emergencies. No problem, I had
been doing it for years like that. After a couple years of management
dumping more and more work on me I had enough. The boss would bitch at me if
I was 5 minutes late, but it did not mater that I was working past midnight
the day before! I pulled in the reins, and went back to the original
agreement where I was told to work 40-45 hours a week, and I let the work
pile up! Management bitched, and I said hire more help! Finally a competitor
offered me a job doing similar work, at almost twice the pay, plus bonuses!
When I turned in my time the could not believe I would leave after how nice
they had been to me over the past three years! The fun thing was I went out
and pulled a great percentage of their customers over to the competitor and
got paid nicely for it! I would like to think it was because of me, but
within 5 years the old company was gone. I think they were headed that way
anyway!
Greg

All, Thanks for the info thus far. I'm in Illinois. So far I'm not in
points trouble but I may not be allowed another sick day for the rest of
this year. The company cut pay and benefits of all hourly employees. Most
of the employees still make more there than other places in the area for
work you can get with a H.S. Diploma or GED. I'm an Electrical Maintenance
Tech and several of the other electrical techs have left for either better
pay or jobs closer to home, etc. All maintenance is required to have at
least 2 years of college, and since the hourly pay cuts, some of the HS
Deploma/GED salary jobs pay more than the skilled labor hourly jobs.

I was given the weekend off by my boss and I had plans for a weekend getaway
with my family. I'm assigned to a project and am not supposed to be
scheduled for anything other than my project. But the guy doing the
scheduling scheduled me for this weekend and I was out of the area... I
shouldn't get points against me for it since I wasn't supposed to be
scheduled anyway and I had permission to take the weekend off from my boss
(I have the email saved). So this could go through as me having permission
to take the weekend off or it could go through as me doing a no-call
no-show.

As many have suggested, I'm paying off debt as fast as I can and my
financial situation is looking pretty good for now. I should have no debt
payments except house within a year. But I have diabetes, take insulin
injections, and have about a 45minute drive each way to work. So I'm not
confident that I can go a year at 48-56 hrs per week without any sick
days...

Thanks!
Roger N

Stephen Young wrote:

Here in Michigan the economy is extremely bad. I work maintenance for a
company that makes home building supplies for both new homes &
remodeling. They keep telling us how they are continually making more
money & setting record profits even in this horrible economy

I'm in Michigan also and I currently work maintenance. The corporation as a
whole has done fantastic last year. Of course that means the plant is under
pressure to do as well or better than the corporate average.

[snip]

With this situation, this company has chosen to eliminate overtime yet
remain open 24/7 with 3 shifts. One department never shuts down. These
people are required to work a continually changing work week so they
only work 40 hours (so no overtime) for a calendar week yet they work
weekends regularly. Maintenance has to work weekdays and 1 guy (rotating
schedules to balance workloads) works the weekend to support the one
department that's always running. We were getting overtime to work the
weekend but this one department cried so now we don't get weekend
overtime unless we work more than 40 hours that week (the law). They
keep our hours down by making us take Monday off the week of our
scheduled weekend.

We needed to build a bank to move a line to another supplier. The company
put the machine operators and assembly line on rotating 12 hrs schedules to
minimize overtime. The company planned to do the same thing with the
maintenance staff but our number of techs just didn't work out so we worked
a non standard week so that one of us, on every shift, would be in every day
w/o paying overtime. Outside of screwed up weekends, I didn't really mind
it since we didn't get forced to work ot or be on call over the weekend.

How can a hourly employee be on call for all three shifts over a weekend or
holidy where we don't make a dime? From what I can tell, the 'earliest
convienience' wording in the on call policy is the legal wiggle that gets
them off the hook.


Just because companies keep screwing their employees doesn't mean
they're a sinking ship or full of cancer.
I've been saying forever: In corporate America it's all about greed.

What each plant turns back to corportate in profit. Plant manager trying to
rise to the top by cutting costs where the last wizard took the easy
pickings. Seems to be a race to the bottom.

Some plant managers will take the road of having a well treated educated
workforce that sees the companies success as their own. Other plant
managers look at labor as a resource to get the absolute most out of by
playing with schedules, sending people home if a machine breaks, and not
investing in training. Sadly, our plant went from the first senario to the
last. After a few years, the untouchables in the front office that were
willing to sit back and go with the flow are seeing their nutts cut. Reap
what ye sow.


Wes

"John R. Carroll" wrote:

California is an "At WIll" State. I can fire someone if I dislike as much as
the color of their socks.

Which is why at least one of our engineers came in on a weekend, grabed his
stuff and started a new job in another state w/o saying a word.

It works both ways.

Wes

--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

In article , "John R. Carroll" wrote:

Exactly. The flip side is employees can quit without notice or cause.
The situation isn't actually that simple but if you are an "At Will"
employee the term "with cause" is meaningless.

Well, not quite meaningless. Depending on state laws, an employee who was
fired "with cause" may be ineligible for unemployment benefits, or eligible
at a reduced rate or for a shorter time, whereas one who was let go without
cause (laid off, downsized, employer bankruptcy, etc) may be eligible for full
benefits.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Join the UseNet Improvement Project: killfile Google Groups.
http://www.improve-usenet.org

Get a copy of my NEW AND IMPROVED TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter
by sending email to autoresponder at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com
You must use your REAL email address to get a response.

Download Nfilter at http://www.milmac.com/np-120.exe

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "John R.
Carroll" wrote:

Exactly. The flip side is employees can quit without notice or cause.
The situation isn't actually that simple but if you are an "At Will"
employee the term "with cause" is meaningless.

Well, not quite meaningless. Depending on state laws, an employee who
was
fired "with cause" may be ineligible for unemployment benefits, or
eligible
at a reduced rate or for a shorter time, whereas one who was let go
without
cause (laid off, downsized, employer bankruptcy, etc) may be eligible
for full
benefits.

The situation isn't actually that simple

--

John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:58:02 -0500, "Roger_N"
wrote:

All, Thanks for the info thus far. I'm in Illinois. So far I'm not in
points trouble but I may not be allowed another sick day for the rest of
this year. The company cut pay and benefits of all hourly employees. Most
of the employees still make more there than other places in the area for
work you can get with a H.S. Diploma or GED. I'm an Electrical Maintenance
Tech and several of the other electrical techs have left for either better
pay or jobs closer to home, etc. All maintenance is required to have at
least 2 years of college, and since the hourly pay cuts, some of the HS
Deploma/GED salary jobs pay more than the skilled labor hourly jobs.

"Points trouble" is a Union term, I smell bigger trouble here...

Been There, Done That when they use attendance as the convenient ax
to downsize without dealing with pesky things they are supposed to do
like paying severance, offering retraining and referrals and openings
at other company divisions, and having to go by seniority when they
want to keep all the young bucks and short-timers.

Especially when they've gotten a two-tier wage package pushed
through within the last few years. ("But don't worry, it won't affect
you at all, it's only for the New Hires...") The youngsters are
already topped out at 20% or more below the old timers.

This could turn into an Age Discrimination class action suit - IF
you can get proof before things get ugly, and/or the company hires a
labor law firm (someone like "Dewey, Screwem & Howe LLC") specializing
in pulling off crap like this...

I was given the weekend off by my boss and I had plans for a weekend getaway
with my family. I'm assigned to a project and am not supposed to be
scheduled for anything other than my project. But the guy doing the
scheduling scheduled me for this weekend and I was out of the area... I
shouldn't get points against me for it since I wasn't supposed to be
scheduled anyway and I had permission to take the weekend off from my boss
(I have the email saved). So this could go through as me having permission
to take the weekend off or it could go through as me doing a no-call
no-show.

As many have suggested, I'm paying off debt as fast as I can and my
financial situation is looking pretty good for now. I should have no debt
payments except house within a year. But I have diabetes, take insulin
injections, and have about a 45minute drive each way to work. So I'm not
confident that I can go a year at 48-56 hrs per week without any sick
days...

Oh crap - pre-existing condition...

1. Document all spoken communications. Keep a diary of who said
what, when, where, how, why. Record all critical conversations that
you can, depending on state privacy laws - get a PDA or Smartphone and
learn how to use it as a voice recorder. Keep track of who was in the
room with you, if the recording isn't admissible on it's own the tape
may be enough to "jog their memories" as witnesses.

1A: And if it's illegal to record a conversation in Illinois and
you feel this might be a crucial conversation, there IS a way around
that - your cellphone. It isn't illegal AFAIK to place a phone call
and leave the line open, and have a witness at the other end (wife,
mother, hired secretary...) act as a witness and take dictation of
both sides of the conversation.

2. Get everything you can (or should) in writing, make copies, keep
the copies separate and secure - put a big fire-rated safe in at a
relative's house, and one at yours. If the people behind this are
real award winners they might try to make one set "disappear" in a
convenient fire or theft, which won't work if you have backups.

2A - Don't tip them off by asking for unusual things in writing or
asking them "to say that again a little louder into this hidden
microphone..." But the norm at a big business is "if you have to sign
or initial it, you get a copy." Take your copies, keep track of them.

2. Make plans to get out - start shopping your resume, and once
you get hired make /sure/ you have the insurance transfer stuff all
worked out before giving your old employer notice.

3. Let your doctor know, and get him on your side - and at the
first sign of health trouble from the overwork or odd schedules,
scream. If you have a legit 'medical reason' card to play, use it.
But carefully, if you push too hard they can push back.

4. Get the rest of the family and friends in on it - let them know
not to ask favors that will eat into 'spare time' you don't have.
Because if you are like me, you have a very hard time saying NO to a
reasonable request.

-- Bruce --

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:42:36 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:


California is an "At WIll" State. I can fire someone if I dislike as
much as the color of their socks.

And yet it gets accused of being so lefty. That's what I get for
engaging in stereotypes, I guess.


Wait till the fired employee takes John to the Labor Board.

Then you will see just how far left California really is.


Gunner who hired and fired as a senior management type in a company
for 18 yrs



"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

"Roger_N" wrote:

As many have suggested, I'm paying off debt as fast as I can and my
financial situation is looking pretty good for now. I should have no debt
payments except house within a year. But I have diabetes, take insulin
injections, and have about a 45minute drive each way to work. So I'm not
confident that I can go a year at 48-56 hrs per week without any sick
days...

I wonder if having diabetes puts you into a protected class of worker? At
least I think you could make a good case for unemployment benefits if your
employer fires you for cause such as missing too much work.

One thing to consider is if you do get fired, you need to maintain group
coverage under cobra. As long as you continuously maintain health
insurance, the next group plan can't wiggle out saying pre-existing
condition.

When the company I worked for 22 years failed, I kept a catastrophic policy
through blue cross blue shield which is the carrier of last resort, until I
secured a new position with health insurance. IIRC, it wasn't terribly
expensive but it did have high deductibles. One calamity can wipe you out
w/o insurance.

As far as the 45 minute drive, I do that every day. Mp3 player, podcasts!
No stop and go, just distance.

When a company cuts pay to employees, it is in desperate straights, the
normal thing is to slow down on increases, shift more co pays for insurance,
eliminate benefits. Forcing an actual pay cut is a very bad sign. I would
proceed with the thought that this job is not going to last long and start
looking for a new position elsewhere. You only have the make a decision to
leave after a job offer you like is secured.

I wish you well Roger,

Wes

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that Wes
wrote on Sun, 20 Apr 2008 18:59:18 -0400 in
rec.crafts.metalworking :

We needed to build a bank to move a line to another supplier. The company
put the machine operators and assembly line on rotating 12 hrs schedules to
minimize overtime. The company planned to do the same thing with the
maintenance staff but our number of techs just didn't work out so we worked
a non standard week so that one of us, on every shift, would be in every day
w/o paying overtime. Outside of screwed up weekends, I didn't really mind
it since we didn't get forced to work ot or be on call over the weekend.

A half hour into the group interview for a job like that (12 hour
days on an varying schedule for two weeks, then 12 hour nights doing
the same) and I said "I've only been here 30 minutes, I haven't gotten
the job yet, and already I have a bad attitude about going to work."
I didn't stay for the rest of the meeting.

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that F. George
McDuffee wrote on Sun, 20 Apr 2008
11:38:01 -0500 in rec.crafts.metalworking :

One very significant phrase in some good observations is "At
least they aren't telling you to work the extra overtime for no
pay!"

"Unpaid overtime" is becoming an increasingly serious problem in
the US, for not only the employees working the overtime, but the
governmental units that depend on income taxes and payroll taxes
to fund their operations that this unpaid overtime should have
generated. ==Note that this includes social security.==

Some salary [non-paid] overtime *CAN* be justified in an
"emergency," however an "emergency" is defined as an event that's
is unexpected in occupance and limited in duration, *NOT* SOP.

Depends on how it is being handled. John's brother drives
snowplow for a city in Utah. Once the city goes over their budget
limit, extra hours become "comp time". Which means that he bust his
but in the winter, but has all this comp time in the summer, for
hunting season, opening of baseball, etc. It is SOP, and almost a
Fringe Benefit. Almost.
--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries

pyotr filipivich wrote in article
...
I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that F. George
McDuffee wrote on Sun, 20 Apr 2008
11:38:01 -0500 in rec.crafts.metalworking :

One very significant phrase in some good observations is "At
least they aren't telling you to work the extra overtime for no
pay!"

"Unpaid overtime" is becoming an increasingly serious problem in
the US, for not only the employees working the overtime, but the
governmental units that depend on income taxes and payroll taxes
to fund their operations that this unpaid overtime should have
generated. ==Note that this includes social security.==

Some salary [non-paid] overtime *CAN* be justified in an
"emergency," however an "emergency" is defined as an event that's
is unexpected in occupance and limited in duration, *NOT* SOP.

Depends on how it is being handled. John's brother drives
snowplow for a city in Utah. Once the city goes over their budget
limit, extra hours become "comp time". Which means that he bust his
but in the winter, but has all this comp time in the summer, for
hunting season, opening of baseball, etc. It is SOP, and almost a
Fringe Benefit. Almost.
--

If he receives one hour of comp time for one hour of OT, he is being
screwed.

If the OT pay rate is 1-1/2 times the straight rate, he should be receiving
12 hours of comp time for each eight hours of overtime worked.

Otherwise, he's simply working OT for straight pay.

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:43:54 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:42:36 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:


California is an "At WIll" State. I can fire someone if I dislike as
much as the color of their socks.

And yet it gets accused of being so lefty. That's what I get for
engaging in stereotypes, I guess.


Wait till the fired employee takes John to the Labor Board.

Then you will see just how far left California really is.


Gunner who hired and fired as a senior management type in a company for
18 yrs


Oregon is "right to work", too. But it's "right to work unless
discrimination is going on" -- and there's a whole lot of different ways
that a lawyer can find discrimination in the simple act of letting an
incompetent boob go.

You really know you're in deep doo-doo when you're contemplating letting
someone go and all of a sudden they get diagnosed with stress, or hurt
their back, or you're anonymously turned in to OSHA for things that even
the OSHA inspectors think are piddly.

--
Tim Wescott
Control systems and communications consulting
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Need to learn how to apply control theory in your embedded system?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" by Tim Wescott
Elsevier/Newnes, http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

"Roger_N" wrote in message
m...
All, Thanks for the info thus far. I'm in Illinois. So far I'm not in
points trouble but I may not be allowed another sick day for the rest of
this year. The company cut pay and benefits of all hourly employees.
Most of the employees still make more there than other places in the area
for work you can get with a H.S. Diploma or GED. I'm an Electrical
Maintenance Tech and several of the other electrical techs have left for
either better pay or jobs closer to home, etc. All maintenance is
required to have at least 2 years of college, and since the hourly pay
cuts, some of the HS Deploma/GED salary jobs pay more than the skilled
labor hourly jobs.

I was given the weekend off by my boss and I had plans for a weekend
getaway with my family. I'm assigned to a project and am not supposed to
be scheduled for anything other than my project. But the guy doing the
scheduling scheduled me for this weekend and I was out of the area... I
shouldn't get points against me for it since I wasn't supposed to be
scheduled anyway and I had permission to take the weekend off from my boss
(I have the email saved). So this could go through as me having
permission to take the weekend off or it could go through as me doing a
no-call no-show.

As many have suggested, I'm paying off debt as fast as I can and my
financial situation is looking pretty good for now. I should have no debt
payments except house within a year. But I have diabetes, take insulin
injections, and have about a 45minute drive each way to work. So I'm not
confident that I can go a year at 48-56 hrs per week without any sick
days...

Thanks!
Roger N



Roger, I'm in IL. too, (At will employer) Take a look at Craigslist and
Oodle for the job boards. There is a lot there. Cat is hiring like mad but
the starting wage is horrid but I have friends who were out of work in
construction and they are quite happy there despite the pay. That is just an
example.... That points system sounds rather Burger King to me so if they
treat you like crap let them kiss your ass. If they deny you time off for
medical I'd think a lawyer might be interested or of value. I really hope
things pan out for you.. Also if you do not mind me asking, what city or
county are you in?

Respects,

Rob

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 11:08:42 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 21:43:54 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:42:36 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:


California is an "At WIll" State. I can fire someone if I dislike as
much as the color of their socks.

And yet it gets accused of being so lefty. That's what I get for
engaging in stereotypes, I guess.


Wait till the fired employee takes John to the Labor Board.

Then you will see just how far left California really is.


Gunner who hired and fired as a senior management type in a company for
18 yrs


Oregon is "right to work", too. But it's "right to work unless
discrimination is going on" -- and there's a whole lot of different ways
that a lawyer can find discrimination in the simple act of letting an
incompetent boob go.

You really know you're in deep doo-doo when you're contemplating letting
someone go and all of a sudden they get diagnosed with stress, or hurt
their back, or you're anonymously turned in to OSHA for things that even
the OSHA inspectors think are piddly.


Ayup

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

pyotr filipivich wrote:

A half hour into the group interview for a job like that (12 hour
days on an varying schedule for two weeks, then 12 hour nights doing
the same) and I said "I've only been here 30 minutes, I haven't gotten
the job yet, and already I have a bad attitude about going to work."
I didn't stay for the rest of the meeting.


Yup. The same people that dream up this crap would never consider it proper
for them. At least you gave those jerks a reality check.

Wes

--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:42:36 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:


California is an "At WIll" State. I can fire someone if I dislike as
much as the color of their socks.

And yet it gets accused of being so lefty. That's what I get for
engaging in stereotypes, I guess.


Wait till the fired employee takes John to the Labor Board.

Been there/done that. When the letter came I called the number and then
faxed over a copy or the Emps signed "AT Will" employment agreement. These
sorts of agreements aren't legal in a lot of States but there isn't a single
instance of a case even going forward once the legal precedent had been set.

The down side is that if you invest heavily in an employee to educate or
train them, they can take your training and leave anytime they wish and
don't owe you a dime.


Then you will see just how far left California really is.

LOL
For what it's worth, California has a couple thousand offenders in jail long
past their time served release date.
You'd think, having served their full sentences that they'd be released but
they aren't. This too has been tested in the courts and affirmed.

Gunner who hired and fired as a senior management type in a company
for 18 yrs

You shouldn't have been allowed to do so until you'd been preperly trained
and advised. Guys like you are the reason many otherwise legitimate
employers have been put out of bussiness. I'm sure you meant well and did
your best but your boss made a big mistake.


--

John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:47:10 -0700, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 16:42:36 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:


California is an "At WIll" State. I can fire someone if I dislike as
much as the color of their socks.

And yet it gets accused of being so lefty. That's what I get for
engaging in stereotypes, I guess.


Wait till the fired employee takes John to the Labor Board.

Been there/done that. When the letter came I called the number and then
faxed over a copy or the Emps signed "AT Will" employment agreement. These
sorts of agreements aren't legal in a lot of States but there isn't a single
instance of a case even going forward once the legal precedent had been set.

Care to provide a guess at how many companies have that form signed,
or even know what it is?
G

The down side is that if you invest heavily in an employee to educate or
train them, they can take your training and leave anytime they wish and
don't owe you a dime.

Ayup. And?


Then you will see just how far left California really is.

LOL
For what it's worth, California has a couple thousand offenders in jail long
past their time served release date.
You'd think, having served their full sentences that they'd be released but
they aren't. This too has been tested in the courts and affirmed.

So you are saying that the Leftists in charge of California really
dont care about prisoners rights?

Gunner who hired and fired as a senior management type in a company
for 18 yrs

You shouldn't have been allowed to do so until you'd been preperly trained
and advised. Guys like you are the reason many otherwise legitimate
employers have been put out of bussiness. I'm sure you meant well and did
your best but your boss made a big mistake.

Oddly enough..I was well trained and provided all certs for the
company, as well as having my name on the company certs, and only lost
1 labor board case out of several hundreds.

I myself did take a company to the Labor Board once. And having all my
ducks in a row, not only won, but got damages large enough I got a 6
month paid vacation out of the deal.

Gunner



"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

"Rob Fraser" FraserRacing"AT"RobFraser.Net wrote in message
. ..


Roger, I'm in IL. too, (At will employer) Take a look at Craigslist and
Oodle for the job boards. There is a lot there. Cat is hiring like mad but
the starting wage is horrid but I have friends who were out of work in
construction and they are quite happy there despite the pay. That is just
an example.... That points system sounds rather Burger King to me so if
they treat you like crap let them kiss your ass. If they deny you time
off for medical I'd think a lawyer might be interested or of value. I
really hope things pan out for you.. Also if you do not mind me asking,
what city or county are you in?

Respects,

Rob

I'm in Du Quoin, about 20 miles North of Carbondale. Once there were a lot
of coal mines around but that slowed to a trickle because of high sulfur
coal. There are a few factories that shut down within the last couple of
years. There's not a lot of jobs around here for maintenance electricians,
PLC programmers, or much of anything else I have experience in, but I keep
an eye on the want ads. Some of our electricians went to Ameren for around
a $10/hr raise! It just seems a bit odd to me to be able to get fired for
not showing up for work when you're working a day or two per week beyond
full time.

Roger N

"*" wrote in message
news:01c8a3bb$2ad875e0$4d91c3d8@race...

If he receives one hour of comp time for one hour of OT, he is being
screwed.

If the OT pay rate is 1-1/2 times the straight rate, he should be receiving
12 hours of comp time for each eight hours of overtime worked.

In my experience (may not be true everywhere) you get 1.5 hours of comp time
for every hour worked.

Where I work (I am salaried so don't get comp time anymore) there is no
limit to the number of comp hours that you can accrue and roll over from
year-to-year. I treasure those hours because I see them as a modicum wage
insurance in case of sickness or layoff. If the need to use those hours never
arises, then they are paid when I leave at my final pay rate. Not as good as a
real investment plan perhaps, but the value of those hours increases at least as
fast as inflation. I call my accruals "my brass parachute" (not "gold"), but
they actually represent a significant amount of money.

Vaughn

"Roger_N" wrote in message
m...

"Rob Fraser" FraserRacing"AT"RobFraser.Net wrote in message
. ..


Roger, I'm in IL. too, (At will employer) Take a look at Craigslist and
Oodle for the job boards. There is a lot there. Cat is hiring like mad
but the starting wage is horrid but I have friends who were out of work
in construction and they are quite happy there despite the pay. That is
just an example.... That points system sounds rather Burger King to me
so if they treat you like crap let them kiss your ass. If they deny you
time off for medical I'd think a lawyer might be interested or of value.
I really hope things pan out for you.. Also if you do not mind me asking,
what city or county are you in?

Respects,

Rob

I'm in Du Quoin, about 20 miles North of Carbondale. Once there were a
lot of coal mines around but that slowed to a trickle because of high
sulfur coal. There are a few factories that shut down within the last
couple of years. There's not a lot of jobs around here for maintenance
electricians, PLC programmers, or much of anything else I have experience
in, but I keep an eye on the want ads. Some of our electricians went to
Ameren for around a $10/hr raise! It just seems a bit odd to me to be
able to get fired for not showing up for work when you're working a day or
two per week beyond full time.

Roger N



Roger,
If you get bored, take a look at the job boards I mentioned. There is an
assortment of ones that require PLC experience, electrical in the commercial
entity 3 phase, logic controllers etc. I know moving is always a last
resort (I had to do it to stay afloat a while back) but Chicago land is
still semi-alive in that market. It seems to be a lack of qualified people
to fill the jobs. CNC, milling, machine ops and maint. are daily updated. I
know my comments are not comfortable to hear but I'd throw anyone a
lifesaver if they were in your shoes. I feel for you sir.

Respects,

Rob

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 00:48:05 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Vaughn Simon" quickly quoth:


"*" wrote in message
news:01c8a3bb$2ad875e0$4d91c3d8@race...

If he receives one hour of comp time for one hour of OT, he is being
screwed.

If the OT pay rate is 1-1/2 times the straight rate, he should be receiving
12 hours of comp time for each eight hours of overtime worked.

In my experience (may not be true everywhere) you get 1.5 hours of comp time
for every hour worked.

So if you worked 21 weeks, you'd get 30.5 weeks paid vacation/sick
leave time? A nice -short- work year, if you can get it. vbg

I don't think so. You have to have your figures mixed up, Vaughn.

--
It's a sad day when you find out that it's not accident or time
or fortune, but just yourself that kept things from you.
-- Lillian Hellman

"Rob Fraser" FraserRacing"AT"RobFraser.Net wrote in message
. ..

SNIP

Roger,
If you get bored, take a look at the job boards I mentioned. There is an
assortment of ones that require PLC experience, electrical in the
commercial entity 3 phase, logic controllers etc. I know moving is always
a last resort (I had to do it to stay afloat a while back) but Chicago
land is still semi-alive in that market. It seems to be a lack of
qualified people to fill the jobs. CNC, milling, machine ops and maint.
are daily updated. I know my comments are not comfortable to hear but I'd
throw anyone a lifesaver if they were in your shoes. I feel for you sir.

Respects,

Rob

Thank's Rob, I appreciate it. If I end up unemployed, I'll look out of the
area but so far it's been difficult to find anything worth taking. I have
Child Support that is based on 32% of my income. That means that if I have
to move, all the extra expense of being employed out of the area has to come
from my 68% of the income. And the last huge increase my ex got in CS went
toward buying herself a sport car while my children have to go out and work
after school so they can pay their own way. Anyway I'll have to cross that
bridge when/if I get there. I asked my boss today and he said he got in
touch with the maintenance manager and I was supposed to be cleared to not
have to come in last weekend on scheduled overtime. But the boss's maybe
saying it's OK while the person recording points is getting info that I
wasn't there, not sure that the left hand knows what the right hand does in
a big company like that (~2000 employees at our location).

If I do have to move I'll probably look toward Kentucky. Here in Illinois
(Ill annoy) I can't even order an air rifle without having it shipped to a
gun dealer. I'm sick of IL's laws that are made for Chicago area, I live in
the part of IL where there are fields North, South, East, and West of my
house. Within a 2 hour drive I could be in either Paducah or St Louis. If
I could find a job that paid living or relocation expenses separately, like
per deim, then CS should only come out of actual take home pay.

Thanks again!
Roger N

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 00:48:05 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Vaughn Simon" quickly quoth:


"*" wrote in message
news:01c8a3bb$2ad875e0$4d91c3d8@race...

If he receives one hour of comp time for one hour of OT, he is being
screwed.

If the OT pay rate is 1-1/2 times the straight rate, he should be
receiving 12 hours of comp time for each eight hours of overtime
worked.

In my experience (may not be true everywhere) you get 1.5 hours of
comp time
for every hour worked.

So if you worked 21 weeks, you'd get 30.5 weeks paid vacation/sick
leave time? A nice -short- work year, if you can get it. vbg

I don't think so. You have to have your figures mixed up, Vaughn.


That'd be for overtime only.

8 hrs. OT = 12 hrs. off

For many years I was putting in an average of 20 hrs. OT/week and used my
Comp Time for Sick Leave [infinite accrual (3 weeks/year) - payable upon
termination/retirement] and Vacation [ 90 Vacation day accrual limit -
payable upon termination/retirement]

When I retired, I collected well over a year's salary. grin

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
In my experience (may not be true everywhere) you get 1.5 hours of comp
time
for every hour worked.

So if you worked 21 weeks, you'd get 30.5 weeks paid vacation/sick
leave time? A nice -short- work year, if you can get it. vbg

I don't think so. You have to have your figures mixed up, Vaughn.

No. You somehow got me all wrong. To be more precise, you should get 1.5
hours of comp time for every hour of unpaid overtime worked. When I was
eligible, that is what I got.


Vaughn

"Roger_N" wrote:

If I do have to move I'll probably look toward Kentucky. Here in Illinois
(Ill annoy) I can't even order an air rifle without having it shipped to a
gun dealer. I'm sick of IL's laws that are made for Chicago area, I live in
the part of IL where there are fields North, South, East, and West of my
house. Within a 2 hour drive I could be in either Paducah or St Louis. If
I could find a job that paid living or relocation expenses separately, like
per deim, then CS should only come out of actual take home pay.

Try to stay close to your kids. Sounds like your ex is only interested in
herself. Some one has to look out for them.

How about Indiana? I think Indiana is fairly gun friendly. CCW permits are
for life. Gotta be better than the state of cook county.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

"RAM³" wrote in message
0...
For many years I was putting in an average of 20 hrs. OT/week and used my
Comp Time for Sick Leave [infinite accrual (3 weeks/year) - payable upon
termination/retirement] and Vacation [ 90 Vacation day accrual limit -
payable upon termination/retirement]

When I retired, I collected well over a year's salary. grin

That is very close to the situation I am looking at now. grin

Besides that lump payout on termination, there is another reason to keep your
accruals high. When the budget gets short in the middle of the fiscal year and
they start looking for someone to lay off, the guy with high accruals will be
relatively safe because management would have to put out all that cash to lay
him off. In the short term, it is always cheaper for managment to retain the
employee with high accruals.

Vaughn