On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 17:39:18 -0500, Jim Kovar wrote:

In article , says...
In article , Bart D. Hull says...

Jim,
There is already a booming business for uninsured going down
to Mexico for dental and medical work. Much cheaper and a lot less
B.S. than the U.S. dentists.



I tried "do-it-yourself" dentistry quite a few years back when I was
starting my business and had little money. I had a tooth that was aching
to no end, I even tried drinking a pint of Jack Daniels to slow down the
pain. Didn't work. Went out to the shop, got a pair of needle nose vise
grips, and clamped on to the tooth. The s.o.b. snapped off flush with my
gum line and literally brought me to my knees seeing stars and flashes.
Ended up going to the dentist anyway because I could no longer get a
grip on it. I'll NEVER,EVER try that again.

Jim Kovar
Vulcan, Mi

Use hog ring pliers or those water pump pliers with the groove and
hole in the jaws. It will work better and is less likely to break off
the tooth. Take a small eyeglass sized screwdriver and run it between
the gums and the tooth as deep as you can all the way around. and
gently pry to loose it from the bone before trying to pull it.

Best tool for the job are these, which can be picked up surplus here
and there...

http://www.surgical911.com/cgi-bin/f...al+Instruments

This is a good book to have on hand..

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...809904-5837654

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 19:38:24 GMT, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

"wmbjk" wrote in message
.. .

My guess is that if you could see
through the cloud of smoke, he's happily banging away on a keyboard in
his lap. But if he needs a handicap during his recovery, he's welcome
to plonk all of Usenet and just post away unmolested by replies. :-)

Hey, maybe that's not a bad idea...g

Regardless, it looks like Tim is taking the opportunity of some misfortune
for Gunner to hammer him with his nutbag ideology. No doubt Gunner is
responding with *his* nutbag ideology.

But if there was a better illustration of the perversity of these arguments
and the effects of ideological obsession upon the character of the people
who hold such positions, it's hard to think of a clearer one than this.

--
Ed Huntress
(remove "3" from email address for email reply)



Ed... what would you expect...

Reference is made to the numerous posts from December 27 and December
28, in this forum.


Synopsis


Tim May is a racist.

Tim May stated he is a felon.

Tim May stated that he owns numerous firearms and will kill anyone who
tries to take them away.

Tim May stated that he expects to have a shot out with cops.

Tim May stated that certain people need "killing".

Tim May stated that he lives on a farm and is waiting for the either
BATF or the cops, and he is ready for them.


Mister Blue's Investigation

Since Tim May was so proud of his racism, his felony conviction and his
guns, I asked him to send me his DOB, address and list of firearms in
his possession. If I confirmed that he was indeed a convicted felon, I
told him I would forward the information to ATF and request a warrant
for his arrest. I even volunteered to sign the affidavit, even though I
am not a federal agent.

Other than using very foul language and suggesting that I should be
killed, Tim May chickened out and did not provide me with the
information I needed to conduct a criminal records check.

However, I did run some generic records checks today using the names
Timothy May, Timmy May and Tim May. I located some 214 possible
subjects in the United States using some variation of the name Timothy
May. Because I did not have our Tim May's DOB, I cannot be sure if I
have located the proper subject, but I think I found our guy.

Tim May, would be kind enough to respond to this post and answer one
question? do you live near the canyon?


Mister Blue


Could this be true... could the future leader and Great White Hope of
hte wolrd reside in Santa Cruz in the mountains?

Mike

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 10:51:43 -0700, Tim May
wrote:

"Less fortunate" is a liberal code phrase for "bums."

Get off your ass.. buy some radio time.. promote your ideas... make a
difference instead of being some bully on the internet...


Nonsense. I devised the steganographic image scheme now being used by
freedom fighters around the world. I proposed the architecture for the
anonymous remailers in wide use around the world. I co-founded the
Cypherpunks crytography group, about which much is available online.
(Read Steven Levy's article on "Crypto Rebels" in the second issue of
"Wired," the cover story, back in early 1993. Then repeat again that I
am doing nothing.)

As for buying time on local radio, don't tell me how to spend (and
waste) my money by ****ing it away on local radio spots.


--Tim May


so you are taking responsibility for all that Spam we get??

In article , Alan Moore
wrote:

So now we see the bottom line: if it's legal, it's legal, and people
shouldn't complain.

Correction. If it's legal, it's legal, and if you want to complain,
you should refrain from calling it illegal.

After all, your right to complain is enshrined in the bill of rights.
But it won't do you any good to complain if you undercut yourself by
denying reality.

Speaking of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, taking money from
the citizens to hand out to others, for whatever noble reason, was
precisely what Sen. David Crockett was talking about in his famous
speech.

Saying money is "taken illegally" is reflecting this usage, that the
taking of money to give to others is NOT A POWER GOVERNMENT HAS,
according to the U.S. Constitution.

I quote from the Old Gunner Testament here (the New Gunner Testament,
as with the Bible, has a completely different, pussified version):

From: Gunner )
Subject: OT-Not yours to give
Newsgroups: alt.machines.cnc, rec.crafts.metalworking
Date: 2001-12-02 10:06:02 PST

NOT YOURS TO GIVE

From The Life of Colonel David Crockett, compiled by Edward S.
Ellis
(Philadelphia: Porter & Coates, 1884)

David Crockett
From another newsgroup, for your reading pleasure

Member of Congress 1827-31, 1832-35

One day in the House of Representatives, a bill was taken up
appropriatingmoney for the benefit of a widow of a distinguished naval
officer. Several beautiful speeches had been made in it's support.
The Speaker was just about to put the question when Crockett arose:

"Mr. Speaker-- I have as much respect for the memory of the
deceased, and as much sympathy for the suffering of the living, if
suffering there be, as any man in this House, but we must not permit
our respect forthe dead or our sympathy for a part of the living to
lead us into an act of injustice to the balance of the living. I will
not go into an argument to prove that Congress has no power to
appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this
floor knows it. We have the right, as individuals, to give away as
much of our own money as we please in charity;
but as members of Congress we have no right so to appropriate a dollar
of the public money.

--rest snipped--

Article recoverable in the usual ways, e.g., by searching on "gunner
"david crockett"" in Google Groups. Here's that search URL, for those
too lazy or too dumb to use Google:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e...ff&threadm=k_A
O7.129%24cG4.231501%40news.uswest.net&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dgunner%2
B%2522david%2Bcrockett%2522%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie %3DUTF-8%26safe%3Doff%
26scoring%3Dd%26selm%3Dk_AO7.129%2524cG4.231501%25 40news.uswest.net%26rn
um%3D3

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 02:40:42 GMT, Santa Cruz Mike
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 10:51:43 -0700, Tim May
wrote:

"Less fortunate" is a liberal code phrase for "bums."

Get off your ass.. buy some radio time.. promote your ideas... make a
difference instead of being some bully on the internet...


Nonsense. I devised the steganographic image scheme now being used by
freedom fighters around the world. I proposed the architecture for the
anonymous remailers in wide use around the world. I co-founded the
Cypherpunks crytography group, about which much is available online.
(Read Steven Levy's article on "Crypto Rebels" in the second issue of
"Wired," the cover story, back in early 1993. Then repeat again that I
am doing nothing.)

As for buying time on local radio, don't tell me how to spend (and
waste) my money by ****ing it away on local radio spots.


--Tim May


so you are taking responsibility for all that Spam we get??


He has provided the tools to not only spammers, but to trollls of all
sorts. Quite gleefully as well, it appears, from his posts

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

Santa Cruz Mike wrote:



but I think I found our guy.

Tim May, would be kind enough to respond to this post and answer one
question? do you live near the canyon?


Mister Blue

Could this be true... could the future leader and Great White Hope of
hte wolrd reside in Santa Cruz in the mountains?

Mike

No, I used to but I moved. Really enjoyed living in Ben Lomond until Love Creek.

michael

Ned Simmons wrote:

In article ,
says...
Jim,
There is already a booming business for uninsured going down
to Mexico for dental and medical work. Much cheaper and a lot less
B.S. than the U.S. dentists.

(Ever try to get a U.S. dentist to clean your teeth and fill a cavity
or two on the same visit? Yep, getting screwed out of my valuable time
by a dentist that wants to hit the insurance for multiple visits.)


Yes, my dentist will if he has time before his next
appointment. And he does the cleaning, x-rays and checkup
personally. Excellent technician, but not much personality-
we've nicknamed him Dr. HaHa after Mr. HaHa Jones from a
Truman Capote story. I'm dreading the day he retires.

Ned Simmons

My dental insurance premiums consist of making things for his Glasair. Works
for me.

michael

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 02:08:24 GMT, Gunner
calmly ranted:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 17:39:18 -0500, Jim Kovar wrote:

In article , says...
In article , Bart D. Hull says...

Jim,
There is already a booming business for uninsured going down
to Mexico for dental and medical work. Much cheaper and a lot less
B.S. than the U.S. dentists.



I tried "do-it-yourself" dentistry quite a few years back when I was
starting my business and had little money. I had a tooth that was aching
to no end, I even tried drinking a pint of Jack Daniels to slow down the
pain. Didn't work. Went out to the shop, got a pair of needle nose vise
grips, and clamped on to the tooth. The s.o.b. snapped off flush with my
gum line and literally brought me to my knees seeing stars and flashes.
Ended up going to the dentist anyway because I could no longer get a
grip on it. I'll NEVER,EVER try that again.

Jim Kovar
Vulcan, Mi

Use hog ring pliers or those water pump pliers with the groove and
hole in the jaws. It will work better and is less likely to break off
the tooth. Take a small eyeglass sized screwdriver and run it between
the gums and the tooth as deep as you can all the way around. and
gently pry to loose it from the bone before trying to pull it.

Best tool for the job are these, which can be picked up surplus here
and there...

http://www.surgical911.com/cgi-bin/f...al+Instruments

Hey, is this one a slide-hammer puller?
Item: 72-2 - Crown Remover


This is a good book to have on hand..

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...809904-5837654

No doubt!


----------------------------------------------------------------
* Blessed are those who can * Humorous T-shirts Online
* laugh at themselves, for they * Comprehensive Website Dev.
* shall never cease to be amused * http://www.diversify.com
----------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 22:56:46 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 02:08:24 GMT, Gunner
calmly ranted:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 17:39:18 -0500, Jim Kovar wrote:

In article , says...
In article , Bart D. Hull says...

Jim,
There is already a booming business for uninsured going down
to Mexico for dental and medical work. Much cheaper and a lot less
B.S. than the U.S. dentists.



I tried "do-it-yourself" dentistry quite a few years back when I was
starting my business and had little money. I had a tooth that was aching
to no end, I even tried drinking a pint of Jack Daniels to slow down the
pain. Didn't work. Went out to the shop, got a pair of needle nose vise
grips, and clamped on to the tooth. The s.o.b. snapped off flush with my
gum line and literally brought me to my knees seeing stars and flashes.
Ended up going to the dentist anyway because I could no longer get a
grip on it. I'll NEVER,EVER try that again.

Jim Kovar
Vulcan, Mi

Use hog ring pliers or those water pump pliers with the groove and
hole in the jaws. It will work better and is less likely to break off
the tooth. Take a small eyeglass sized screwdriver and run it between
the gums and the tooth as deep as you can all the way around. and
gently pry to loose it from the bone before trying to pull it.

Or...
http://www.surgical911.com/cgi-bin/d... age=0&Ftext=

Best tool for the job are these, which can be picked up surplus here
and there...

http://www.surgical911.com/cgi-bin/f...al+Instruments

Hey, is this one a slide-hammer puller?
Item: 72-2 - Crown Remover

Sorry about that...frames sometimes get me

http://www.surgical911.com/cgi-bin/d...bPage=0&Ftext=


This is a good book to have on hand..

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...809904-5837654

No doubt!


----------------------------------------------------------------
* Blessed are those who can * Humorous T-shirts Online
* laugh at themselves, for they * Comprehensive Website Dev.
* shall never cease to be amused * http://www.diversify.com
----------------------------------------------------------------

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 21:07:22 -0700, Tim May
wrote:

garbage snipped

not cross-posted


P L O N K ...



just because you are a flaming idot and I am sick of your crap...



Intrepid


p.s. Get a life, ****-for-brains...

I've been going to Mexico for dental for years. I met up with a
dentist when my kids and I used to help with the Tecate 250 Enduro.
He's a great guy, motorcyclist, mountain bike racer, slips in some
dentristry too and his wife is an oral surgeon. It's nice, for me,
when I can take a couple hours off from work and cruise out to Tecate
on the scooter. I did get a speeding ticket last time though but,
including the ticket, the crown was only a little over half the cost
of up here.


JohnF


On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 13:26:16 -0700, "Bart D. Hull"
wrote:

Jim,
There is already a booming business for uninsured going down
to Mexico for dental and medical work. Much cheaper and a lot less
B.S. than the U.S. dentists.

(Ever try to get a U.S. dentist to clean your teeth and fill a cavity
or two on the same visit? Yep, getting screwed out of my valuable time
by a dentist that wants to hit the insurance for multiple visits.)

If you plan it right you can get your medical checkup, any meds you might
need and your dental work all in one day trip to Mexico.

There are a few doctors and dentists here in Arizona that only accept cash
and have a much lower fee scale as they reduce their front office staff to
a single receptionist.

Bart D. Hull

Tempe, Arizona

Check http://www.inficad.com/~bdhull/engine.html
for my Subaru Engine Conversion
Check http://www.inficad.com/~bdhull/fuselage.html
for Tango II I'm building.

Remove -nospam to reply via email.



jim rozen wrote:

In article , Gary Coffman says...



Perhaps we'll be able to strike a political balance that will ease our
discomfort and mollify our philosophical objections. But given our
experience with other government programs, I'm dubious. I'm almost
certain we'd wind up with a medical black market that many of us
would patronize by choice in order to avoid entanglements with the
government bureaucracy, even though such back alley medicine
would likely be much higher risk.



I think pretty soon consumers will start outsourcing medical
care as well. I'm suprised that doctors have not set up clinics
in mexico or canada, catering to the US clientel.

It's now a global economy so I bet some of that stuff is going
to offshore.

Jim

================================================ ==
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
================================================ ==

Tim May wrote:

We make it out of the liberal hippie ****s who wander into the area and
tell us about the glories of communism. You and Gunner are peas in a
pod.


The liberal hippy ****s were there long before you, you
carpetbagging pig-turd stinking cocksucking lowlife son
of a bitch. Santa Cruz and all of California were nice
places before the self-righteous stopped-up asshole crowd
you belong to invaded.

In article , hamei
wrote:

Tim May wrote:

We make it out of the liberal hippie ****s who wander into the area and
tell us about the glories of communism. You and Gunner are peas in a
pod.


The liberal hippy ****s were there long before you, you
carpetbagging pig-turd stinking cocksucking lowlife son
of a bitch. Santa Cruz and all of California were nice
places before the self-righteous stopped-up asshole crowd
you belong to invaded.

No, Santa Cruz was a pretty nice place until the mid-60s, which is when
the UC campus was opened, and the hippies arrived.

On my road alone we have residents like "Locatelli," the long-term
family in the Santa Cruz area, and "Tindall," the origin of the
"Tindall Ranch Road" up above Eureka Canyon.

The hippie and lesbian ****s raising our taxes will eventually be sent
up the chimneys.

There are several aspects of our freedoms under attack by the media and
schools:
1) religion, substituting a mixture of science and government worship
2) capitalism, substituting socialism: putting some people's needs over
some other people's right to private property
3) gun owners, substituting government protections for self defense and
ending defense from government
4) education, substituting liberal indoctrination for learning salable
skills
5) freedom of speech, substituting political correctness

In other words, we may have beaten the Soviet Union, but we have also
ingested it.

But just like the video cassettes of Dallas and police beatings
circulated on the black market in the USSR before the government
collapse, likewise we have the Drudge Report on the internet, FOX news
on cable, and right wing radio on the AM dial to react to the excesses
of the media elites.

The Rifleman wrote:

Socialised Medicine?????, Thats like our NHS, IE closet communism.





--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.

On 23 Jun 2004 16:17:00 -0700, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Jim Kovar says...

I tried "do-it-yourself" dentistry quite a few years back when I was
starting my business and had little money. I had a tooth that was aching
to no end, I even tried drinking a pint of Jack Daniels to slow down the
pain. Didn't work. Went out to the shop, got a pair of needle nose vise
grips, and clamped on to the tooth. The s.o.b. snapped off flush with my
gum line and literally brought me to my knees seeing stars and flashes.
Ended up going to the dentist anyway because I could no longer get a
grip on it. I'll NEVER,EVER try that again.

AAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhGHHHHHH!!!!!

Please put a warning in the subject line next time~!

Jim

I agree , must have woke up the household LOL at 3 this morning.

I've been kicking around the idea of going to Mexico to get some
things done. It would take a couple of weeks to hit the beach in TX.
and then I don't know enough spanish.

How can one do self surgery? I heard somewhere on TV that you can get
prescription drugs on the net without a prescription. Is it possible
to get liquid morphine or novocain ? I have a number of objects in my
hands and feet and have tried biting down on leather and digging , but
it hurts too much. Plus how do you find it if you can't feel it?

The doctor before last wouldn't touch the bump on my finger saying
that he didn't want a 2 million $ law suit. He recommended a hand
doctor and said it would cost between 3 & 6 thousand dollars ! He
said he would defer his fee and is still trying to get his $100 from
me. I don't see why I should pay someone that openly says they are a
chicken ****. I had about $1500 in my pocket.

The last doctor I went to with a couple of problems said that she had
never seen anything like it before and everything else was nothing to
worry about. I almost lost it on her. Something like visions of being
arrested stopped me.

I'm starting to wonder if they really are PHD's. Hell, my wife's pets
get better medical care than I do. Maybe I should take a damn the
torpedoes vacation and go to Mexico. I heard a lot of good things
about doctors and dentists across the border when I use to live right
there.

Santa Cruz Mike wrote:


Are you sure you have really done all the things you say... or are you
holed up in some rat infested shack like the unibomber..just waiting
to self destruct??

Please! He was the Unabomber, IIRC.

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 21:07:22 -0700, Tim May
wrote:



Speaking of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, taking money from
the citizens to hand out to others, for whatever noble reason, was
precisely what Sen. David Crockett was talking about in his famous
speech.

Saying money is "taken illegally" is reflecting this usage, that the
taking of money to give to others is NOT A POWER GOVERNMENT HAS,
according to the U.S. Constitution.

snip

Do you pay, personally, for every mile of road that you travel on?

Mark Rand
RTFM

In article , Mark Rand
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 21:07:22 -0700, Tim May
wrote:



Speaking of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, taking money from
the citizens to hand out to others, for whatever noble reason, was
precisely what Sen. David Crockett was talking about in his famous
speech.

Saying money is "taken illegally" is reflecting this usage, that the
taking of money to give to others is NOT A POWER GOVERNMENT HAS,
according to the U.S. Constitution.

snip

Do you pay, personally, for every mile of road that you travel on?

Nitwit. Roads and national defense, and a very few other such things,
are what government is constitutionally mandated to provide for. (In
the U.S., we are talking about, as the quotes above make clear.)

The issue is taking money from some people to give to others, for the
purposes of charity.

Nitwit.

--Tim May

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:06:48 GMT, "ATP"
wrote:

Santa Cruz Mike wrote:


Are you sure you have really done all the things you say... or are you
holed up in some rat infested shack like the unibomber..just waiting
to self destruct??

Please! He was the Unabomber, IIRC.

Un-i-bomber, as in "University" bomber.

In article , Lawrence
Glickman wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:06:48 GMT, "ATP"
wrote:

Santa Cruz Mike wrote:


Are you sure you have really done all the things you say... or are you
holed up in some rat infested shack like the unibomber..just waiting
to self destruct??

Please! He was the Unabomber, IIRC.

Un-i-bomber, as in "University" bomber.

No, the earlier correct was right. Here's but one of many cites,
including books, including FBI files, including the court transcripts:


"The Definitive UNABOM Page -
Unabomber Information

* * * Over the course of 18 years (1978-1995), "the Unabomber",
generally accepted to be Ted Kaczynski acting alone, placed or mailed
23 package bombs. These bombs killed 3 and wounded 16. As the first
targets were UN-iversities and A-irlines, the FBI gave the case the
name UNABOM. The FBI was finally able to apprehend Kaczynski thanks to
his brother David and David's wife Linda who recognized the writing in
"Industrial Society and Its Future" (aka "The Manifesto") which the FBI
finally decided to let the Washington Post publish.

* * * His federal trial resulted in the sentence of multiple life
terms in the SuperMax prison in Colorado. Kaczynski requested an
appeal, hoping to get a re-trial in which he is able to defend himself
(which he originally requested permission to do on January 8, 1998),
but the request was denied (2-1) in Feb 2001 and TK will now have to
try the US Supreme Court. By appealing, TK has decided he would rather
risk receiving a death- sentence than live out his days in prison
diagnosed as mentally ill (he insists he is not, only that he had a
very difficult time with social adjustment as a kid). (Update 8/01:
Appeal denied.) His book has been postponed indefinitely, but his
allegory was published in 1999.

Books
- HARVARD AND THE UNABOMBER: The Education of an American Terrorist
By Alston Chase (March 2003) -- see his article, below. (NY Times
review)

http://www.weblogz.org/ehaugsjaa/unabom/

'a' wins the google race, 93k to 7k.......

Lawrence Glickman wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:06:48 GMT, "ATP"
wrote:


Santa Cruz Mike wrote:


Are you sure you have really done all the things you say... or are you
holed up in some rat infested shack like the unibomber..just waiting
to self destruct??


Please! He was the Unabomber, IIRC.


Un-i-bomber, as in "University" bomber.

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 19:19:14 -0500, the renowned Lawrence Glickman
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:06:48 GMT, "ATP"
wrote:

Santa Cruz Mike wrote:


Are you sure you have really done all the things you say... or are you
holed up in some rat infested shack like the unibomber..just waiting
to self destruct??

Please! He was the Unabomber, IIRC.

Un-i-bomber, as in "University" bomber.

That's what I thought too, but it seems to actually be "Unabomber".
Note the Penthouse cover...

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/cr...lers/unabomer/
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:28:46 GMT, yourname wrote:

'a' wins the google race, 93k to 7k.......

sorry. my mistake.
Well.........

Lg


Lawrence Glickman wrote:
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:06:48 GMT, "ATP"
wrote:


Santa Cruz Mike wrote:


Are you sure you have really done all the things you say... or are you
holed up in some rat infested shack like the unibomber..just waiting
to self destruct??


Please! He was the Unabomber, IIRC.


Un-i-bomber, as in "University" bomber.

'a' wins the google race, 93k to 7k.......


sorry. my mistake.
Well.........



NO NO NO!!!!!

have you learned nothing on the usenet?

Apologies will not be accepted, you MUST brutally mindlessly stick to
you guns FOREVER!

Or argue till your bored and then change the subject

Tim May wrote:

The hippie and lesbian ****s raising our taxes will eventually be sent
up the chimneys.

As usual, you know nothing of what you speak. Santa Cruz has ALWAYS
(well, ever since the Indians got run off) been a haven for hippies.
ALWAYS. My sister and brother-in-law were living in La Honda while
you were still swatting mosquitoes back in Joisey, so don't bother
telling ME what happened in Santa Cruz, carpetbagger.

I was born in California, by the way. So was my mother. So was my
grandmother. You came from under some rock in a fascist elsewhere.

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 01:51:20 GMT, yourname wrote:




'a' wins the google race, 93k to 7k.......


sorry. my mistake.
Well.........



NO NO NO!!!!!

have you learned nothing on the usenet?

Apologies will not be accepted, you MUST brutally mindlessly stick to
you guns FOREVER!

Or argue till your bored and then change the subject

I got bored and changed the subject.

Anyhow, from the information Tim May posted, it looks like Teddy has
elected to "opt-out" of the human race ( not that he hadn't already,
but this time in body as well as spirit ).

Seems like prison is getting to him. Don't blame the guy really.
Nothing to look forward to except death from old age. Very
depressing. He is now going to try to commit Death by the State,
opening up a vulnerability to his Life in Prison without parole
status, so he will become eligible for the Needle of No Return.

It really has to suck to be in SuperMax. I can't imagine, except what
comes to mind is being enclosed in a broom closet for the rest of your
life. I would opt-out also.

Lg

ISTR something about that. didn't his brother turn him in with the
understanding they

wouldn't go for the DP, and was some
po'd when they did as I recall.


,
opening up a vulnerability to his Life in Prison without parole
status, so he will become eligible for the Needle of No Return.

It really has to suck to be in SuperMax. I can't imagine, except what
comes to mind is being enclosed in a broom closet for the rest of your
life. I would opt-out also.

Lg

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 03:09:55 GMT, yourname wrote:

ISTR something about that. didn't his brother turn him in with the
understanding they

wouldn't go for the DP, and was some
po'd when they did as I recall.

Yah, that is what his brother wanted. But evidently, Teddy is slowly?
going bonkers sitting in what must be a goldfish bowl, with no way
out.

Now you and I can't imagine what that must be like. I mean, it is
literally being *buried alive,* with no chance to die, cause the
guards won't let you.

Now it is just my idea, based on what Mr May posted, that Teddy has
given up. He is sick and tired of the same old same old, and has a
mind to check out of the building. And the only way out of SuperMax
is in a hearse, unless you work there.

So by going to the Supreme Court, and re-opening his case, his
previous arrangements for life in prison without parole are subject to
becoming null and void. It would be, in effect, a new trial, and
thusly, any arrangements under the old terms of agreement wouldn't
necessarily be part of the equation.

It is Suicide by State, that teddy is looking for. They won't let him
kill himself in his goldfish bowl, so he is going to try to get the
State to do it for him cause he can't take the punishment of
confinement any longer. There are plenty of precedents for this exact
thing happening. I can't remember where, Florida I think, another
inmate just did the exact same thing. And he got his wish. He was
executed by lethal injection.

Lg


opening up a vulnerability to his Life in Prison without parole
status, so he will become eligible for the Needle of No Return.

It really has to suck to be in SuperMax. I can't imagine, except what
comes to mind is being enclosed in a broom closet for the rest of your
life. I would opt-out also.

Lg

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 09:57:36 +0800, hamei wrote:

Tim May wrote:

The hippie and lesbian ****s raising our taxes will eventually be sent
up the chimneys.

As usual, you know nothing of what you speak. Santa Cruz has ALWAYS
(well, ever since the Indians got run off) been a haven for hippies.
ALWAYS. My sister and brother-in-law were living in La Honda while
you were still swatting mosquitoes back in Joisey, so don't bother
telling ME what happened in Santa Cruz, carpetbagger.

I was born in California, by the way. So was my mother. So was my
grandmother. You came from under some rock in a fascist elsewhere.


Oh.. and don't forget when the Stagnero's came into the county.. and
ran out the Chineese fisherman in Santa Cruz and Monetery... none
left.. after all those restricting laws made to run them out..

Mike

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 00:31:07 GMT, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 19:19:14 -0500, the renowned Lawrence Glickman
wrote:

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:06:48 GMT, "ATP"
wrote:

Santa Cruz Mike wrote:


Are you sure you have really done all the things you say... or are you
holed up in some rat infested shack like the unibomber..just waiting
to self destruct??

Please! He was the Unabomber, IIRC.

Un-i-bomber, as in "University" bomber.

That's what I thought too, but it seems to actually be "Unabomber".
Note the Penthouse cover...

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/cr...lers/unabomer/
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

He was called "Unabomber" for University and airline.

George

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 17:12:15 -0700, Tim May
wrote:

In article , Mark Rand
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 21:07:22 -0700, Tim May
wrote:



Speaking of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, taking money from
the citizens to hand out to others, for whatever noble reason, was
precisely what Sen. David Crockett was talking about in his famous
speech.

Saying money is "taken illegally" is reflecting this usage, that the
taking of money to give to others is NOT A POWER GOVERNMENT HAS,
according to the U.S. Constitution.

snip

Do you pay, personally, for every mile of road that you travel on?

Nitwit. Roads and national defense, and a very few other such things,
are what government is constitutionally mandated to provide for. (In
the U.S., we are talking about, as the quotes above make clear.)

The issue is taking money from some people to give to others, for the
purposes of charity.

Nitwit.

--Tim May


Section 8, clause 1 of your constitution states:-
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and
Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general
Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be
uniform throughout the United States;"

The phrase "and general Welfare of the United States" implies "taking money
from some people to give to others". Charity is a completely different
concept. You may engage in charity as well as paying your taxes if you wish,
but don't mither about what your government does legally with your taxes.


Have a nice weekend
Regards
Mark Rand
RTFM

"Mark Rand" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 17:12:15 -0700, Tim May
wrote:

In article , Mark Rand
wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 21:07:22 -0700, Tim May

wrote:



Speaking of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution, taking money from
the citizens to hand out to others, for whatever noble reason, was
precisely what Sen. David Crockett was talking about in his famous
speech.

Saying money is "taken illegally" is reflecting this usage, that the
taking of money to give to others is NOT A POWER GOVERNMENT HAS,
according to the U.S. Constitution.

snip

Do you pay, personally, for every mile of road that you travel on?

Nitwit. Roads and national defense, and a very few other such things,
are what government is constitutionally mandated to provide for. (In
the U.S., we are talking about, as the quotes above make clear.)

The issue is taking money from some people to give to others, for the
purposes of charity.

Nitwit.

--Tim May


Section 8, clause 1 of your constitution states:-
"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts
and
Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general
Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be
uniform throughout the United States;"

The phrase "and general Welfare of the United States" implies "taking
money
from some people to give to others". Charity is a completely different
concept. You may engage in charity as well as paying your taxes if you
wish,
but don't mither about what your government does legally with your taxes.



Any nation having a substantial percentage of it's population subject to
relative abject poverty, starvation, or even death from cureable disease
while relatively inexpensive remedial solutions exist is not providing for
it's general welfare.

As such, there will always be subject to disagreement a point where general
welfare can arguably be viewed as charity.

--

SVL

The phrase "and general Welfare of the United States" implies "taking money
from some people to give to others". Charity is a completely different
concept. You may engage in charity as well as paying your taxes if you wish,
but don't mither about what your government does legally with your taxes.


Have a nice weekend
Regards
Mark Rand
RTFM

while 'general wlfare' doesn't mean 'welfare' it more closely means 'do
with what it sees fit'

If you read the Federalist the founders figured the gov't would tend to
not bother with many things that is now does, but they are not 'illegal'

In article , Strabo
wrote:

It is not slavery, any more than imprisoning people is slavery, or
having them fulfill military contracts is slavery. You need to reread
the definitions.

A person who owes should work it off.

Forced work equals slavery, by any definition.

No, it is fulfillment of a contract, a debt.

A person owing a mortgage on a house, for example, is "forced" to come
up with the money, usually by working.

Slavery is a substantially different concept that either indentured
servitude (which I of course support) or fullfillment of a debt.
Reasons left for people to think about.

You have benefitted from this debt money system and largely by
circumstance. If as a child you had not gone to certain schools
that exposed you to certain subjects that led you to desire a
particular education, you could be less wealthy.

And if you had not the means to attend the schools that taught
you the trade that you pursued that placed you in a position
of sufficient money which you then invested for a big return,
you would be less wealthy.

You owe much to timing and circumstance.

Even as a self-proclaimed libertarian you remain as conflicted
as Gunner, each of you driven by unresolved internal biases.

Fatuous nonsense.

PLONK.


--Tim May

In article , yourname wrote:

The phrase "and general Welfare of the United States" implies "taking money
from some people to give to others". Charity is a completely different
concept. You may engage in charity as well as paying your taxes if you wish,
but don't mither about what your government does legally with your taxes.


Have a nice weekend
Regards
Mark Rand
RTFM

while 'general wlfare' doesn't mean 'welfare' it more closely means 'do
with what it sees fit'

If you read the Federalist the founders figured the gov't would tend to
not bother with many things that is now does, but they are not 'illegal'

Au contraire, the Tenth Amendment, the last item of the Bill of Rights,
makes it crystal clear that powers specifically not delegated to the
federal government in the Articles (or later Amendments) are NOT
AVAILABLE for use by the federal government. Here's the text:

" The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution,
nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States
respectively, or to the people. "

This enumeration language means that while the Constitution outlines
broad powers to coin money, regulate commerce between the states (*),
form treaties, raise an army in times of war, and some other things, it
does NOT have any enumerated power to hand out money as welfare.

(Needless to say, the Brit who claimed that "provide for the general
welfare," in the preamble, means "welfare" in the dole sense, is
greatly misinformed about the words and what they mean.)

(* By the way, "regulate commerce between the states" in in the sense
of tariffs and trade restrictions, saying the states could not act as
independent countries and create trade barriers and tariffs between
states, that only the Federal government could regulate commerce. It
has _nothing_ to do with the Federal government regulating what people
charge for goods, for example, or racial discrimination, as it was
later incorrectly used to regulate, as in the Ollie's BBQ case.)

As for welfare and doles, the Old Gunner used to quote Sen. David
Crockett on this matter. Crockett was absolutely right: the
Constitution does not provide for such welfare payments.

--Tim May

the Tenth Amendment, the last item of the Bill of Rights,
makes it crystal clear that powers specifically not delegated to the
federal government in the Articles (or later Amendments) are NOT
AVAILABLE for use by the federal government. Here's the text:

" The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution,
nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States
respectively, or to the people. "


umm, no, they have the previously mentioned power to spend money like a
drunken sailor. It is up to US to stop them. WE choose not to. All money
ends up in some persons hand for some reason or another, why it ended
up there really is not a constitutional issue.

Unfortunate, but true.

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 22:22:36 +0100, Guido wrote:

Gunner wrote:

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 21:43:05 +0100, Guido wrote:


Gunner wrote:



Ive stocked Amoxycillian etc etc from the feed and grain store for
many years. I just dont recall seeing Paxil, and the rest of the stuff
in there. Survivalists tend to go that route for those types of meds,
fish meds, etc. Looking around, seems my 4 daily meds are gonna cost
me $400 a month. No can do.


In the UK each prescription item costs £6.10, but you can
also prepay £91.80 for the year which covers you for all
items in a 12 month period. For certain groups like
children, pregnant mothers, pensioners, and welfare the
items are free.


Good for the UK. Not going to do me much good, unless you ship.


Sorry you have to be a resident socialist.

Well, except for the "resident" part, gummer fits the bill.

On Sat, 26 Jun 2004 19:58:24 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

The phrase "and general Welfare of the United States" implies "taking money
from some people to give to others"

Actually, it may not imply that. The Founders intended that the Nation
be self supporting by taxation of imports (tarrifs) and selected
businesses, etc, not taxation of individuals. It wasnt until the 16th
Amendment was offered up (and never ratified), that personal taxation
began.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

A big part of the reason drugs are less expensive in Mexico and Canada
is because the drugs imported _into_ those countries (by Pfizer, Merck,
etc.) don't carry the "FDA approval, regulation, and litigation
premium" that drugs sold in America are forced by market conditions to
carry. Buyers in Mexico are not expected to pay for the horrrendously
expensive American approval and regulation costs, so they don't.



If W proposed eliminating the FDA tomorrow, the first in line to stop
him would be the drug companies.
Drug prices are not caused by anything other than supply and demand. The
'costs' per unit over 17 years are pennies. If we didn't have the fda,
someone would invent it. Libertarians seem to have a ten year memory,
anything that happened longer than that doesn't exist. The FDA didn't
just 'become' it is there for a reason. "patent medicine" Corporations
don't have a conscience, they are not supposed to .

Litigation is a problem, but until we stop stocking congress with
lawyers, it won't go away

Looks ratified in my book..........

income taxes did not begin then, they had been around for some years,
but a series of court cases resulted in the amendment being passed to
moot court rulings


Actually, it may not imply that. The Founders intended that the Nation
be self supporting by taxation of imports (tarrifs) and selected
businesses, etc, not taxation of individuals. It wasnt until the 16th
Amendment was offered up (and never ratified), that personal taxation
began.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell