Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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  #41   Report Post  
richard allain
 
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Default Gunner's medical bills


"Jeridiah" wrote in message
om...

I can remember when my first daughter was born. The bill
was, IIRC, about $300. Now? Several thousands. In the


FYI

Recently had a son, total bill was just a shade over $12k. Nothing
unusual about the birth.

JW


When my first daughter was born the hospital bill per day for my wife
was $15. When the daughter was born they charged an additional $4 for her
care.
When my granddaughter was born they named her Megabucks.



  #42   Report Post  
Leigh Knudson
 
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Default Gunner's medical bills

Tom wrote in message ...
Robert Sturgeon wrote:

I have lousy insurance that costs me over $800 per month. I really
don't know how much longer I can afford to pay for it.


What sort of policy do you have that you pay $800/ month for?? What age
group??

And why are you paying $800 a month?? How much medical expense do you
have each year?? When was the last time you actually spent $9600 on
medical bills for a year??



About 6 months ago I checked on family catastrphic health insurance for
myself/wife/daughter. Wife and I are 40, I'm a smoker, daughter is 16,
no current medical problems etc. The policy to cover us, $2500
deductible/year, 80-20 after $2500 up to $10,000 max out of pocket/year,
with a preganancy exclusion.
This policy was $138/ month. Not exactly cheap, but alot cheaper than I
hear other's being quoted for policies they don't really need. My
employer offers the exact same policy to me for free, as opposed to over
$200/month for the "bells and whistles" policy.

Tom


I have the same terms of coverage that you have but am 60 years old.
My insurance is $1368. every other month for my wife and myself. BTW
This is a bargain as she has had four major surgeries and at this rate
we will never pay off those costs even though I paid $10.K in
deductibles each year she had a problem. Leigh @ MarMachine
  #43   Report Post  
Tim May
 
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In article , Leigh
Knudson wrote:

I have the same terms of coverage that you have but am 60 years old.
My insurance is $1368. every other month for my wife and myself. BTW
This is a bargain as she has had four major surgeries and at this rate
we will never pay off those costs even though I paid $10.K in
deductibles each year she had a problem. Leigh @ MarMachine


This is a high rate, but is consistent with the risks. As you said, it
was a "bargain."

The problem with the actions of some here is that they think that those
who choose to never get insurance, who lack savings of any kind, that
their bills should be state-paid. The problem is the "moral hazard" of
rewarding some for being "carefree, spending their money on partying
and toys" and the "social hazard" of disincentivizing people like you
from even bothering with insurance.

If the County and State is going to pay, why bother spending that $1368
a month to buy insurance?


--Tim May
  #44   Report Post  
Santa Cruz Mike
 
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Default Gunner's medical bills

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:14:37 -0700, Tim May
wrote:

In article , Leigh
Knudson wrote:

I have the same terms of coverage that you have but am 60 years old.
My insurance is $1368. every other month for my wife and myself. BTW
This is a bargain as she has had four major surgeries and at this rate
we will never pay off those costs even though I paid $10.K in
deductibles each year she had a problem. Leigh @ MarMachine


This is a high rate, but is consistent with the risks. As you said, it
was a "bargain."

The problem with the actions of some here is that they think that those
who choose to never get insurance, who lack savings of any kind, that
their bills should be state-paid. The problem is the "moral hazard" of
rewarding some for being "carefree, spending their money on partying
and toys" and the "social hazard" of disincentivizing people like you
from even bothering with insurance.

If the County and State is going to pay, why bother spending that $1368
a month to buy insurance?


--Tim May



Tim.. the state doesn't reward... do you think they are just going to
let Gunner walk?

Mike

  #45   Report Post  
Tim May
 
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In article , Santa Cruz
Mike wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:14:37 -0700, Tim May
wrote:

In article , Leigh
Knudson wrote:

I have the same terms of coverage that you have but am 60 years old.
My insurance is $1368. every other month for my wife and myself. BTW
This is a bargain as she has had four major surgeries and at this rate
we will never pay off those costs even though I paid $10.K in
deductibles each year she had a problem. Leigh @ MarMachine


This is a high rate, but is consistent with the risks. As you said, it
was a "bargain."

The problem with the actions of some here is that they think that those
who choose to never get insurance, who lack savings of any kind, that
their bills should be state-paid. The problem is the "moral hazard" of
rewarding some for being "carefree, spending their money on partying
and toys" and the "social hazard" of disincentivizing people like you
from even bothering with insurance.

If the County and State is going to pay, why bother spending that $1368
a month to buy insurance?


--Tim May



Tim.. the state doesn't reward... do you think they are just going to
let Gunner walk?


But the state and county alread DID, on his wife's $400,000 bills
("more or less," Gunner's own estimate of the bills).

If Gunner's wife gets a free ride on her medical bills, because she was
"partying" when she should have been saving money and buying health
insurance, why would Gunner not get the same treatment?

And many here have been using the usual "safety net" arguments about
how Gunner must have paid a lot of taxes (probably not, but they think
so), about how his 3 years in the military entitles him to free
treatment, etc.

So, yes, I expect he will get a free ride. Another victory for the
"grasshoppers" who partied while the "ants" saved and paid taxes and
bought insurance.

Maybe he'll start posting as a born-again liberal, maybe he'll go back
to posting anti-welfare diatribes. Either way, unless he commits to
paying the full amount himself, he cannot be taken seriously.


--Tim May


  #46   Report Post  
hamei
 
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Tim May wrote:

Maybe he'll start posting as a born-again liberal, maybe he'll go back
to posting anti-welfare diatribes. Either way, unless he commits to
paying the full amount himself, he cannot be taken seriously.


--Tim May



Gunner could never be taken seriously. Neither can you.

The only difference between you is that you are a sanctimonious
smarmy hypocrite while Gunner is a fascist redneck one. Still and
all, you are both ignorant self-satisfied disgusting pieces of the
spooge that collects in the sumps of old gear hobbers or under the
worktable of a 1917 Fellows shaper. As far as I can see, you're the
same person in different clothing. Yuck.
  #47   Report Post  
Ed Huntress
 
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Default Gunner's medical bills

"hamei" wrote in message
...
Tim May wrote:


stuff

Gunner could never be taken seriously. Neither can you.

The only difference between you is that you are a sanctimonious
smarmy hypocrite while Gunner is a fascist redneck one. Still and
all, you are both ignorant self-satisfied disgusting pieces of the
spooge that collects in the sumps of old gear hobbers or under the
worktable of a 1917 Fellows shaper. As far as I can see, you're the
same person in different clothing. Yuck.


Doggone, that was pretty good, getting some metalworking content in there,
Hamei.

d8-)

Ed Huntress


  #48   Report Post  
Gunner
 
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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:04:32 +0800, hamei wrote:

Still and
all, you are both ignorant self-satisfied disgusting pieces of the
spooge that collects in the sumps of old gear hobbers or under the
worktable of a 1917 Fellows shaper.


Wow...can I borrow that for a sig?

Thanks!

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell
  #49   Report Post  
Lawrence Glickman
 
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Default Gunner's medical bills

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 05:40:58 GMT, Gunner
wrote:


On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 13:04:32 +0800, hamei wrote:

Still and
all, you are both ignorant self-satisfied disgusting pieces of the
spooge that collects in the sumps of old gear hobbers or under the
worktable of a 1917 Fellows shaper.


Wow...can I borrow that for a sig?

Thanks!

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell


Gunner's CRIME is that he is a human being

Tim May's CRIME is that he is not

Lg

  #50   Report Post  
Lennie the Lurker
 
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Tim May wrote in message t...

HACK! CHOP! SLASH!

Having read enough of the unadulterated, fully polluted, foul minded
bull**** from one tim may, may I introduce those that are not aware of
the concept, of the shun.

The subject of the shun is not killfiled, but is simply not responded
to. THis is doubly effective, as the troll, or in this case
sub-troll, knows his messages are posted, but sits and stews in the
knowledge that people are reading, maybe, but won't answer or rise to
his thoroughly fermented baits. One merely laughs at his stupidity,
then moves off to find someone with half a brain. Just think of it as
an exercise similar to pulling wings off flies. ONe gets to watch his
struggles, then watch as he eventually gives up, or changes identities
in an attempt to have his drivel responded to.

SHUN. It works.


  #51   Report Post  
Robert Sturgeon
 
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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 11:53:10 GMT, Strabo
wrote:


(very wise post, snipped for brevity)

When a man of principle cannot afford to live by his own hand,
can he afford to live by the hand of another?


Well, it's that or die, isn't it? Survival usually
overrides philosophy.

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
  #52   Report Post  
jim rozen
 
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In article , Lennie the Lurker
says...

SHUN. It works.


Worked for that Robert St John guy....

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

  #53   Report Post  
Ryan
 
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"Santa Cruz Mike" wrote in message
...

Tim.. the state doesn't reward... do you think they are just going to
let Gunner walk?


Are you trying to tell us that Gunner is going to be placed in prison for
theft if these bills are not paid? That is not going to happen. He will go
home. He will be allowed to make some small penitence which the state won't
touch. There are millions of people that 'owe' the state money, most of
them are not in prison for non-repayment. If the service is healthcare,
Section 8, etc....you get a free ride. If it is non-payment of taxes, you
get a trip to a jail cell. Let's say Gunner got $100K in treatment. He
can't pay any of it back unless he wins the lottery. Let's say his neighbor
runs some business and hides money. The neighbor owes the state $100K. The
neighbor gets caught and tried. The state still may not get their money,
but the neighbor has a felony conviction. Gunner on the other hand gets to
keep his guns, because the state doesn't try him for his felony theft of
services. Welcome to America.


  #54   Report Post  
Joel Corwith
 
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"Lennie the Lurker" wrote in message
om...
Tim May wrote in message

t...

HACK! CHOP! SLASH!

Having read enough of the unadulterated, fully polluted, foul minded
bull**** from one tim may, may I introduce those that are not aware of
the concept, of the shun.


Some rec.aviation.soaring responses recently,..

"Go away Lennie....no one cares."

"I have, up till this point sat back and politely ignored your posts that
cast dispersions on others for not leaving the soaring. I just don't get
it. Maybe you can explain why you feel it necessary to 'lurk' about the
message board tossing about your negativity"

And my favorite:
"That, ladies and gentlemen, says all you ever need to know about Lennie the
Lurker. One cannot have a dialogue with a person so full of hate; one can
only ignore him. He does not stay out of soaring because he can't afford
it; he stays out of it because he just hates those who are in it."

Kettle, fire, black....



  #55   Report Post  
michael
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner's medical bills

This is a letter I wrote to local hospital after I received a bill
that I thought was stupid for simple food poisoning.


On April 25th, 2004 I went to the E.R. at Covenant Medical Center for
what I believed was food poisoning. I went right in since the E.R
wasn't busy. I arrived at about 8:00 am.
One of the first events to happen was a lady asked for my insurance
card.
One of the nurses asked me what the problems were and what I had to
eat. Another nurse gave me an I.V, something for nausea, and took some
blood for test. A doctor talked to me for 4 minutes and felt of my
stomach. I slept for 2 hours. When the I.V. was empty and the blood
test results found nothing serious. I was wheeled to the doors and
released at about 11:00am.

For the three hour visit to the E.R my insurance company was charged
$1,777.67. The insurance company gets a discount of $622.18 and paid
$724.39. I received a bill
from the hospital for $431.10. So the hospital gets $1155.49 for 3
hours, an I.V., nausea drug, and blood test. The insurance reported
the doctor bill to be $229.00 and paid $183.20. I received a bill for
$45.80. The blood test total was a bargain at $35.70.
..
I have a feeling that many people would say "If you don't like the
fees stay sick."
Those people would be missing my point. Just because you can hold
someone's health
for ransom doesn't mean you should. The money isn't the issue I can
pay the $476.90, the hospital and doctor bill, and I can pay the
$171.00 per month the insurance cost. I just don't see how the simple
procedures that were used can cost $2042.37.

Are the items I received really that expensive or is it more
inefficiency and greed?
I think some of this bill is due to inefficiency. The people with
insurance are paying for people without insurance. I think some of the
bill is greed Covenant charged $229.00 for a doctor to talk to me for
four minutes and feel my belly. Drug companies charging outrageous
amount for drugs. Insurance companies get big discounts.


Michael


  #56   Report Post  
Robert Sturgeon
 
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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:12:34 GMT, "Ryan"
wrote:


"Santa Cruz Mike" wrote in message
.. .

Tim.. the state doesn't reward... do you think they are just going to
let Gunner walk?


Are you trying to tell us that Gunner is going to be placed in prison for
theft if these bills are not paid? That is not going to happen. He will go
home. He will be allowed to make some small penitence which the state won't
touch. There are millions of people that 'owe' the state money, most of
them are not in prison for non-repayment. If the service is healthcare,
Section 8, etc....you get a free ride. If it is non-payment of taxes, you
get a trip to a jail cell. Let's say Gunner got $100K in treatment. He
can't pay any of it back unless he wins the lottery. Let's say his neighbor
runs some business and hides money. The neighbor owes the state $100K. The
neighbor gets caught and tried. The state still may not get their money,
but the neighbor has a felony conviction. Gunner on the other hand gets to
keep his guns, because the state doesn't try him for his felony theft of
services. Welcome to America.


I'm sure Gunner is not eligible for MediCal (California's
version of Medicaid). If he owes medical bills, he can
either work out payment plans with the providers, sell
assets to pay for them, or declare bankruptcy - all of which
are perfectly legitimate for someone in his position.

--
Robert Sturgeon
Summum ius summa inuria.
http://www.vistech.net/users/rsturge/
  #57   Report Post  
Ryan
 
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"Robert Sturgeon" wrote in message
...
If he owes medical bills, he can
either work out payment plans with the providers, sell
assets to pay for them, or declare bankruptcy - all of which
are perfectly legitimate for someone in his position.


His own admission of his income is telling: He will not be able to pay.
Maybe $10/month. Like I said, the _state_ will allow him to skate on this
theft. By allowing a person to declare bankruptcy, the state is allowing
one to get away with theft of services. Hide $100K in taxes that you owe
the government. Spend it, then when they find out and want it....try
declaring bankruptcy to get out of trouble. It won't happen.


  #58   Report Post  
Tim May
 
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Default Gunner's medical bills

In article cb1Cc.96339$0y.30989@attbi_s03, Ryan
wrote:

"Robert Sturgeon" wrote in message
...
If he owes medical bills, he can
either work out payment plans with the providers, sell
assets to pay for them, or declare bankruptcy - all of which
are perfectly legitimate for someone in his position.


His own admission of his income is telling: He will not be able to pay.
Maybe $10/month. Like I said, the _state_ will allow him to skate on this
theft. By allowing a person to declare bankruptcy, the state is allowing
one to get away with theft of services. Hide $100K in taxes that you owe
the government. Spend it, then when they find out and want it....try
declaring bankruptcy to get out of trouble. It won't happen.


Before Gunner could "declare bankruptcy," certain assets would have to
be disposed-of in connection with the debts owed. A bankruptcy is not a
"get out of debt free card."

If any assets, such as rifles or machines, are hidden, this becomes a
serious matter. Granted, such hiding of assets is commonplace. In
Gunner's case, it is likely that he would have to account for what
happened to the various firearms and machines and tools he was known to
have had before the bankruptcy filing.

Bankruptcies are terrible things. An injustice in our society, that
people can escape their debts, and no walk in the park for those who go
through them.

(My sister and her husband declared bankruptcy many years ago. Not only
could they not carry assets forward into the post-bankruptcy era, they
had to work like dogs to get back on their feet. By the way, one of the
reasons some people "homestead" their homes in states like Florida is
because the primary residence, if owned outright, is not seizable in
cases like this. However, mortages owed are still owed, and, inasmuch
as Gunner said his house faced foreclosure in 2000, I assume he did not
then, and not now, own that house free and clear. If he does, he should
of course have taken out a mortgage on it (or a second) to buy health
insurance. He chose not to.)

Lastly, if a debt is erased/forgiven in a bankruptcy filing, the amount
of the forgiveness is treated as TAXABLE. (How else could it be, as the
holder of the debt is able to write off the uncollectable debt, ergo,
the party whose debt was forgiven or erased is the recipient of a
taxable benefit.)

And debts to the IRS or FTB (Calif. tax authority) are not voided in
bankruptcies.

So if a $200,000 medical bill is voided in a bankruptcy, expect the IRS
and FTB to send a tax bill of about $60,000. Maybe a repayment plan
with _them_ can be worked out. Say, $500 a month, for life. Plus any
other taxes which arise.

--Tim May
  #59   Report Post  
Gunner
 
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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 12:31:34 -0700, Robert Sturgeon
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 16:12:34 GMT, "Ryan"
wrote:


"Santa Cruz Mike" wrote in message
. ..

Tim.. the state doesn't reward... do you think they are just going to
let Gunner walk?


Are you trying to tell us that Gunner is going to be placed in prison for
theft if these bills are not paid? That is not going to happen. He will go
home. He will be allowed to make some small penitence which the state won't
touch. There are millions of people that 'owe' the state money, most of
them are not in prison for non-repayment. If the service is healthcare,
Section 8, etc....you get a free ride. If it is non-payment of taxes, you
get a trip to a jail cell. Let's say Gunner got $100K in treatment. He
can't pay any of it back unless he wins the lottery. Let's say his neighbor
runs some business and hides money. The neighbor owes the state $100K. The
neighbor gets caught and tried. The state still may not get their money,
but the neighbor has a felony conviction. Gunner on the other hand gets to
keep his guns, because the state doesn't try him for his felony theft of
services. Welcome to America.


I'm sure Gunner is not eligible for MediCal (California's
version of Medicaid). If he owes medical bills, he can
either work out payment plans with the providers, sell
assets to pay for them, or declare bankruptcy - all of which
are perfectly legitimate for someone in his position.


Correct. Im not eligible for any local, State for Federal aid. I
spent all day yesterday exploring my options, which come down to
selling everything I own, home, vehicle, etc etc, , and making them a
$15,000 payment..which is about the total of my entire assests, making
further payments for the rest of my life, and/or filing bankruptcy
while living in a cardboard box.

If I had become permanantly disabled, then I would qualify for various
programs.

Im also rather agast at the expense of the 4 medicines Im on. So far,
Im using up samples the doctor has given me, but when they are gone,
there is no more. I simply will not be able to pay for the meds, make
payments etc etc. Im exploring the costs of scripts from Canada and
Mexico at the moment.
In talking to a number of individuals, what it costs them for 1 month
in the US, can buy them 3 months out of Canada, and 6 months out of
Mexico. So I suspect Ill be making a road trip down to TJ in the next
couple weeks.

How do you all handle your meds that are not insurance covered?

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell
  #60   Report Post  
wmbjk
 
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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:45:25 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Im exploring the costs of scripts from Canada and
Mexico at the moment.


If it were up to GW and friends, that wouldn't be an option for you.
It's all part of "compassionate conservatism". If they get a second
term and outlaw the reimportation of drugs, you can always take up
smuggling, or comb your email spam for alternative therapies.

Wayne


  #61   Report Post  
PrecisionMachinisT
 
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"wmbjk" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:45:25 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Im exploring the costs of scripts from Canada and
Mexico at the moment.


If it were up to GW and friends, that wouldn't be an option for you.
It's all part of "compassionate conservatism". If they get a second
term and outlaw the reimportation of drugs, you can always take up
smuggling, or comb your email spam for alternative therapies.


You mean to say somebody has their hand in the cookie jar ???

--

SVL



  #62   Report Post  
Lennie the Lurker
 
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"Joel Corwith" wrote in message ...


Proof positive, corwithout is nothing but another cut and paster. No
brain of his own, no mind of his own, a slave to his masters. Never
had an original thought, never will. Never worth one rotten bean,
never will be. How about something on metalworking for a change
joelgirl? Ever made a chip? Didn't think so, just a bull****ter with
no brain. Typical.
  #63   Report Post  
Lennie the Lurker
 
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"Joel Corwith" wrote in message ...


Forgot to mention, his cut and paste job comes from another cut and
paster, the soaring (soreing? snoring?) group where if you don't have
thirty thousand or more for a toy that you can use "some days" they
don't want you. What is it about conservative assholes that they
don't have the capacity to think other than what their owners want
them to?

Metal content, joelgirl?
  #64   Report Post  
Ryan
 
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"Ignoramus1628" wrote in message
...
I am not sure what is morally wrong in merely accepting government
handouts.


It is theft. Especially when there is no way you will ever pay them back.
Of course I am glad people are doing this more and more. First it was just
black folks: Welfare, Section 8, etc. Now we have all kinds of groups
living on the doll. Then you have people like me not wanting to go out and
be all I can be. Why the hell do I want to make more money only to be taxed
to death to pay for these lazy bums?


  #65   Report Post  
Joel Corwith
 
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Sorry Richard, you're no better than Tim.

Joel. phx

"Lennie the Lurker" wrote in message
om...
"Joel Corwith" wrote in message

...


Proof positive, corwithout is nothing but another cut and paster. No
brain of his own, no mind of his own, a slave to his masters. Never
had an original thought, never will. Never worth one rotten bean,
never will be. How about something on metalworking for a change
joelgirl? Ever made a chip? Didn't think so, just a bull****ter with
no brain. Typical.





  #66   Report Post  
Ryan
 
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"Lawrence Glickman" wrote in message
news


Gunner's CRIME is that he is a human being

Tim May's CRIME is that he is not


Spare us the sob story Lawrence. You, of all people, who bitch an moan
about '******s' and their welfare. Gunner is no differnet..oh wait, I think
he is white You have complained about "Listen, these *blacks* are into
drugs, murder for hire, and
prostitution. I represent *interference* to their business. Get the
picture ?" Well, Gunner's kid was in to drugs and maybe even prostitution
or other crimes to pay for drugs?

Here is a kicker (5/27/99):

"The environments are the _same_. The *upbringing* is the doing of the
******s parents who:
a) treat them like dogs
b) can't read or write themselves
c) are junkies
d) are alcoholics
e) are thieves
f) are murderers
g ) are welfare recipients who have neither the intelligence nor the
motivation to do something productive with their lives."

Gunner seems to fit into the _g_ catagory perfectly. So tell us LG, do you
only hate welfare people who are black? Or does Gunner somehow get a pass
for acting like a '****** parent'?

From the same post:
"So Don't blame it on the *environment* Jim Crow, blame it on the nigga's
who
are incapable of being responsible parents and role models."

So basically Tim is doing the blaming, but since it's Gunner and he is
white...it isn't fair to blame him for anything?


  #67   Report Post  
Tim May
 
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In article , PrecisionMachinisT
wrote:

"wmbjk" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:45:25 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Im exploring the costs of scripts from Canada and
Mexico at the moment.


If it were up to GW and friends, that wouldn't be an option for you.
It's all part of "compassionate conservatism". If they get a second
term and outlaw the reimportation of drugs, you can always take up
smuggling, or comb your email spam for alternative therapies.


You mean to say somebody has their hand in the cookie jar ???


A big part of the reason drugs are less expensive in Mexico and Canada
is because the drugs imported _into_ those countries (by Pfizer, Merck,
etc.) don't carry the "FDA approval, regulation, and litigation
premium" that drugs sold in America are forced by market conditions to
carry. Buyers in Mexico are not expected to pay for the horrrendously
expensive American approval and regulation costs, so they don't.

The fix is to fix the regulatory and litigation costs, not to simply
legalize importation from Mexico and Canada, which merely says "All
shipments of Drug X from New Jersey to Oregon must first stop at the
airport in Tijuana." Were that to happen, then the obvious litigation
costs _would_ be effectively on the drugs passing through Mexico.

This is the issue.

--Tim May
  #68   Report Post  
Joel Corwith
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner's medical bills

Wow, I rate 2 posts, thought I was filtered.

It's not a metal thread Richard. Perhaps you noticed that when you spewed
your hate filled crap.

Too bad you can't afford to fly, guess metalworking wasn't the wisest career
choice?

It's funny you think only those with lathes or mills are working in metal,
perhaps you should open your eyes to your own bigotry. What's next, those
running CNC machines aren't really machinists?

Joel. phx

Why is it you post to those groups who's activities you hate so much and
who's people obviously have no love for you.

Just like Tim,...

"Lennie the Lurker" wrote in message
om...
"Joel Corwith" wrote in message

...


Forgot to mention, his cut and paste job comes from another cut and
paster, the soaring (soreing? snoring?) group where if you don't have
thirty thousand or more for a toy that you can use "some days" they
don't want you. What is it about conservative assholes that they
don't have the capacity to think other than what their owners want
them to?

Metal content, joelgirl?



  #69   Report Post  
john
 
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wmbjk wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:45:25 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Im exploring the costs of scripts from Canada and
Mexico at the moment.


If it were up to GW and friends, that wouldn't be an option for you.
It's all part of "compassionate conservatism". If they get a second
term and outlaw the reimportation of drugs, you can always take up
smuggling, or comb your email spam for alternative therapies.

Wayne




I guess you could move to china....


John
  #70   Report Post  
Lawrence Glickman
 
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Default Gunner's medical bills

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 23:56:50 GMT, "Ryan" wrote:


"Lawrence Glickman" wrote in message
news


Gunner's CRIME is that he is a human being

Tim May's CRIME is that he is not


Spare us the sob story Lawrence. You, of all people, who bitch an moan
about '******s' and their welfare. Gunner is no differnet..oh wait, I think
he is white You have complained about "Listen, these *blacks* are into
drugs, murder for hire, and
prostitution. I represent *interference* to their business. Get the
picture ?" Well, Gunner's kid was in to drugs and maybe even prostitution
or other crimes to pay for drugs?

Here is a kicker (5/27/99):

"The environments are the _same_. The *upbringing* is the doing of the
******s parents who:
a) treat them like dogs
b) can't read or write themselves
c) are junkies
d) are alcoholics
e) are thieves
f) are murderers
g ) are welfare recipients who have neither the intelligence nor the
motivation to do something productive with their lives."

Gunner seems to fit into the _g_ catagory perfectly. So tell us LG, do you
only hate welfare people who are black? Or does Gunner somehow get a pass
for acting like a '****** parent'?


It appears from reading this *discussion* that Gunner has made some
regrettable mistakes. Who amongst us _hasn't_ made any mistakes?
Name anybody over the age of 1 hours old.

Otoh, repeating the -same- mistakes is what he is being chastised for,
and I can't interfere with that. He is getting some good advice from
Tim May for the first f*cking time in HISTORY, and he should give it
some consideration, regardless of the source it is coming from.

I hate to admit to this, because I despise the ******* for any number
of reasons, but TM is correct on this *issue.*

But as always, there is another side to the story ( every story ).
Gunner was in the water going down. The Good Ship Welfare came along
and tossed him a lifeline. He grabbed it. He is alive for doing so.
Isn't that what Survivalism is all about? Keeping ALIVE under
adversity? He did it. But go ahead and kick him in the ass some
more, cause you guys seem to get a cheap thrill out of doing so.

From the same post:
"So Don't blame it on the *environment* Jim Crow, blame it on the nigga's
who
are incapable of being responsible parents and role models."


I haven't changed my position on that.

So basically Tim is doing the blaming, but since it's Gunner and he is
white...it isn't fair to blame him for anything?


Gunner has to be given the opportunity now to correct this incredible
situation he finds himself in. Give the man some time to do it for
God's sake.

Lg



  #71   Report Post  
Ryan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner's medical bills


"Ignoramus11028" wrote in message
...

Why. The handout is given to me legally.


With money stolen from me illegally.

With all that fine rhetoric, it does not look like people work less
hours or work less productively. Taxed or not, you want to earn $$ to
enjoy the little niceties of life.


Yea, but with the current state of stealing my money to pay for some lazy
bum, like yourself, it is much better for one to make as much tax free
income as possible without sounding the usual alarms. There are ways to
make a few thousand dollars a year on the side tax-free. However, this is
illegal so the true freedom loving Americans who do this should make sure
they don't show up on the radar screen. It beats working a taxed part-time
job where your just working more hours to support Ignoramus, Gunner, and a
whole host of others.


  #72   Report Post  
Santa Cruz Mike
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner's medical bills

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 14:22:59 -0700, Tim May
wrote:

In article cb1Cc.96339$0y.30989@attbi_s03, Ryan
wrote:

"Robert Sturgeon" wrote in message
...
If he owes medical bills, he can
either work out payment plans with the providers, sell
assets to pay for them, or declare bankruptcy - all of which
are perfectly legitimate for someone in his position.


His own admission of his income is telling: He will not be able to pay.
Maybe $10/month. Like I said, the _state_ will allow him to skate on this
theft. By allowing a person to declare bankruptcy, the state is allowing
one to get away with theft of services. Hide $100K in taxes that you owe
the government. Spend it, then when they find out and want it....try
declaring bankruptcy to get out of trouble. It won't happen.


Before Gunner could "declare bankruptcy," certain assets would have to
be disposed-of in connection with the debts owed. A bankruptcy is not a
"get out of debt free card."

If any assets, such as rifles or machines, are hidden, this becomes a
serious matter. Granted, such hiding of assets is commonplace. In
Gunner's case, it is likely that he would have to account for what
happened to the various firearms and machines and tools he was known to
have had before the bankruptcy filing.

Bankruptcies are terrible things. An injustice in our society, that
people can escape their debts, and no walk in the park for those who go
through them.

(My sister and her husband declared bankruptcy many years ago. Not only
could they not carry assets forward into the post-bankruptcy era, they
had to work like dogs to get back on their feet. By the way, one of the
reasons some people "homestead" their homes in states like Florida is
because the primary residence, if owned outright, is not seizable in
cases like this. However, mortages owed are still owed, and, inasmuch
as Gunner said his house faced foreclosure in 2000, I assume he did not
then, and not now, own that house free and clear. If he does, he should
of course have taken out a mortgage on it (or a second) to buy health
insurance. He chose not to.)

Lastly, if a debt is erased/forgiven in a bankruptcy filing, the amount
of the forgiveness is treated as TAXABLE. (How else could it be, as the
holder of the debt is able to write off the uncollectable debt, ergo,
the party whose debt was forgiven or erased is the recipient of a
taxable benefit.)

And debts to the IRS or FTB (Calif. tax authority) are not voided in
bankruptcies.

So if a $200,000 medical bill is voided in a bankruptcy, expect the IRS
and FTB to send a tax bill of about $60,000. Maybe a repayment plan
with _them_ can be worked out. Say, $500 a month, for life. Plus any
other taxes which arise.

--Tim May



I agree Tim.. instead of bankruptcy.. we should have debtor's prisons
and hard labor... next time a guy works for a company for ten
years.... and gets laid off and get into problems.. to hell with
bankruptcy.. lets lock him up and teach him a lesson... and all those
single moms.... to hell with them.. they can't cut it in the rough and
tumble world rasising kids by themselves... put them in prison before
they cause a problem.. put them kids down like a stray dog.. so the
rest will learn....

Just think how much better society would be with all the poor,
ignorant, helpless masses who depend on the Gov, each other, etc for
hand outs and making a living... were gone... put them down.. lock
them up.. put them out of site... exterminate those losers..


And with the same zeal.. lets close those swiss banks that hide all
that ill gotten drug money and secret kick backs..a nd then lets lock
up all those specialist and theives that took billions out of the
stock market with "privileged" information... let's get this place
cleaned up.. and ship shape...

prison for liars... prison for cheaters... prison for those who are
impolite... prison for the fat.... prison for fat women... prison for
skinny women.. prison for ******* children...

We have got to stop this cancer called humanity... prison for
predators of the weak and not so bright...

Oops.. then the rich could not get rich.....

Mike


  #73   Report Post  
wmbjk
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner's medical bills

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 19:38:42 -0500, Lawrence Glickman
wrote:


Gunner was in the water going down. The Good Ship Welfare came along
and tossed him a lifeline. He grabbed it. He is alive for doing so.
Isn't that what Survivalism is all about?


I thought you had to be willing to eat live mice or some such to
qualify as a survivalist. But now everybody who's on welfare is a
member of the club? I didn't think the survivalist NG was looking for
so many new members. :-)

Wayne

  #74   Report Post  
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner's medical bills

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 23:11:17 GMT, wmbjk
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:45:25 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Im exploring the costs of scripts from Canada and
Mexico at the moment.


If it were up to GW and friends, that wouldn't be an option for you.
It's all part of "compassionate conservatism". If they get a second
term and outlaw the reimportation of drugs, you can always take up
smuggling, or comb your email spam for alternative therapies.

Wayne


Wasnt it Bush and Co that passed the perscription drug benefit law?

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell
  #75   Report Post  
Gunner
 
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Default Gunner's medical bills

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 23:56:50 GMT, "Ryan" wrote:

Well, Gunner's kid was in to drugs and maybe even prostitution
or other crimes to pay for drugs?


Prostitution? I suggest you review the warning I gave to Tubby on
California, deep pockets and the Libel Law. Might save you some grief.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell


  #76   Report Post  
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner's medical bills

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 23:56:50 GMT, "Ryan" wrote:

g ) are welfare recipients who have neither the intelligence nor the
motivation to do something productive with their lives."

Gunner seems to fit into the _g_ catagory perfectly.



Way cool! Does that mean Im not a honkey anymore?

Yazza Yazza Yazza!

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell
  #77   Report Post  
Tim May
 
Posts: n/a
Default Gunner's medical bills

In article , Lawrence
Glickman wrote:


It appears from reading this *discussion* that Gunner has made some
regrettable mistakes. Who amongst us _hasn't_ made any mistakes?
Name anybody over the age of 1 hours old.


I agree with LG that Gunner has made some large mistakes. And I agree
that many of us, even all of us, have made mistakes. Perfection is not
acheivable.

However, it was the calls for Gunner's bad choices to be further
subsidized, in total repudiation of all of the "gubmint bad/socialism
evil/Canucks from Canada escaping socialized medicine" rants he has
written, that cause me to barf.

If you look back at some of the comments I have made, I pointed out
Gunner's tale of his sleeping-around wife (I would say "whoring-around
wife," but Gunner might claim this is "libel," though obviously a true
description, implicit in his own articles about the matter) and how he
kept taking her back and how she kept stealing from him, draining his
bank account, boozing, and all. It was during this crystalline
realization that he is basically either an a) doormat or a b) socialist
tax grabber that I elected not to read his rants any longer. This was a
few years ago, as I recall.


Otoh, repeating the -same- mistakes is what he is being chastised for,
and I can't interfere with that. He is getting some good advice from
Tim May for the first f*cking time in HISTORY, and he should give it
some consideration, regardless of the source it is coming from.

I hate to admit to this, because I despise the ******* for any number
of reasons, but TM is correct on this *issue.*


Yes, and the Old Gunner would have been in agreement with us. Nay, he
would have been quoting Heinlein and Tennyson and Kipling and all the
rest about the evils of paying people to keep making more stupid and
immoral life decisions.


But as always, there is another side to the story ( every story ).
Gunner was in the water going down. The Good Ship Welfare came along
and tossed him a lifeline. He grabbed it. He is alive for doing so.
Isn't that what Survivalism is all about? Keeping ALIVE under
adversity? He did it.


This is the same flaw of thinking that The Independent made, that
Gunner's theft from taxpayers (hasn't happened yet, admittedly, though
it doesn't look promising that Gunner will pay off that bill when it
comes due in however many weeks) was some kind of example of
"survivalism."

"Misc.Survivalism's Man of the Year: Levar Q. Shabazz, for Stealing Mo
Bling Bling den any other brutha, A Shining Example of Survivalism!"

Look, plenty of farmers got into debt they couldn't repay. And they
lost their farms. Millions of them. Life goes on.

And plenty of other farmers worked their butts off, sublet part of
their lands to other farmers, and managed to crawl back to even.

It is not the role of government to bail people out on debts. If it
were, I know of a long line of people who were in line before Gunner
was!

This is the point of the speech by Sen. David Crockett that Gunner has
posted at least once, and probably more than once.

What happens to Gunner I don't know. As others have said, he won't go
to prison (at least not for this debt issue). But he may very well lose
his house and machine "toys" and remaining firearms. Which is just what
would happen with a farmer or anyone else in a similar situation.

And he may end up better off. Hard to say, but I know many people who
have been "unburdened' by losing their past baggage.

There are worse things than (as but one example) living on a boat in
the San Diego harbor, getting meds a train trolley ride away in TJ, and
doing work on high tech machines in and around La Jolla's biotech and
high tech corridor. Were I Gunner, I would maybe even look forward to
getting rid of the unfaithful ex-wife and heading for a better job
market without any baggage.


--Tim May



But go ahead and kick him in the ass some
more, cause you guys seem to get a cheap thrill out of doing so.

From the same post:
"So Don't blame it on the *environment* Jim Crow, blame it on the nigga's
who
are incapable of being responsible parents and role models."


I haven't changed my position on that.

So basically Tim is doing the blaming, but since it's Gunner and he is
white...it isn't fair to blame him for anything?


Gunner has to be given the opportunity now to correct this incredible
situation he finds himself in. Give the man some time to do it for
God's sake.

Lg

  #78   Report Post  
Santa Cruz Mike
 
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On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 23:11:17 GMT, wmbjk
wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 22:45:25 GMT, Gunner
wrote:

Im exploring the costs of scripts from Canada and
Mexico at the moment.


If it were up to GW and friends, that wouldn't be an option for you.
It's all part of "compassionate conservatism". If they get a second
term and outlaw the reimportation of drugs, you can always take up
smuggling, or comb your email spam for alternative therapies.

Wayne



If you live close to Mexico.. just drive down... many so called
scrips in the US are over the counter in mexico... good quality too..
most of the time.. just an older US plant moved down south.. notice
how the tooth paste and other stuff.. is old US packaging.. etc..

Mike

  #79   Report Post  
Ryan
 
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"Lawrence Glickman" wrote in message
...
He is getting some good advice from
Tim May for the first f*cking time in HISTORY, and he should give it
some consideration, regardless of the source it is coming from.


First time? Are you kidding me? From Google:

http://www.google.com/groups?q=Gunne.... net&rnum=11

Ok. Gunner was given the same advice back in 2002. Here it is two years
later and nothing has happened. In fact, one could argue that his lack of
trying to better his life is what is killing him (read: Caused the heart
attack).

But as always, there is another side to the story ( every story ).
Gunner was in the water going down. The Good Ship Welfare came along
and tossed him a lifeline. He grabbed it. He is alive for doing so.
Isn't that what Survivalism is all about? Keeping ALIVE under
adversity? He did it. But go ahead and kick him in the ass some
more, cause you guys seem to get a cheap thrill out of doing so.


If Survivalism is all about wating for the government to save you...then why
the hell were we all talking about generators, camping supplies, guns, etc.
on Y2K? In fact, I guess it would have made more sense to talk about how to
be the first in line when the camps were set-up. Isn't that was survivalism
is all about? Hell no, survivalism is about taking action _before_ ****
happens. Are you saying if one of these ******s in your area was starving
and come a robbed you, that they are practicing survivalism as we all see it
here on m.s.? Give me a break.

Gunner has to be given the opportunity now to correct this incredible
situation he finds himself in. Give the man some time to do it for
God's sake.


Gunner will do nothing. Most poor people won't change, they have their
little world and that is all they care about. His world was filled with
people who used him over and over and over again. That was his business.
However, now that the whole family is alive and kickin thanks to the sweat
off my relatives backs...I am here to pitch a bitch. So I am with you, let
us see if Gunner changes.


  #80   Report Post  
PrecisionMachinisT
 
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"Santa Cruz Mike" wrote in message
...

Oops.. then the rich could not get rich.....


Bingo!!!

--

SVL


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