I am a hobbyist and part time tradesperson who reads
rec.crafts.metalworking (RCM) to gain insights into metal
working techniques, tool reviews and other metal working,
with the exception of welding (I separately subscribe to
the joining/welding groups), related matters,

I used to find RCM a good source for such information.
However, over the last few or more months, RCM has become
nothing less than a board for anyone to post anything, related
or not, to metalworking. The number of OT posts has reached
spam proportions and my KILL file far exceeds the number of
daily posts to this group.

There are literally thousands of news groups available
where the majority of these OT posts appropriately belong, e.g.
politics, computers, terrorism, etc. I would like to ask those
who think this group is the only one to post in to please
consider that others may not want to read or even see articles
that are not related to metalworking. Your lack of
consideration is driving away those who have a serious interest
in metalworking and may just have an answer to a difficult
problem being posed but don't read RCM because of all the OT
noise.

"Dave Beyerl" wrote in message
...
I am a hobbyist and part time tradesperson who reads
rec.crafts.metalworking (RCM) to gain insights into metal
working techniques, tool reviews and other metal working,
with the exception of welding (I separately subscribe to
the joining/welding groups), related matters,

I used to find RCM a good source for such information.
However, over the last few or more months, RCM has become
nothing less than a board for anyone to post anything, related
or not, to metalworking. The number of OT posts has reached
spam proportions and my KILL file far exceeds the number of
daily posts to this group.

There are literally thousands of news groups available
where the majority of these OT posts appropriately belong, e.g.
politics, computers, terrorism, etc. I would like to ask those
who think this group is the only one to post in to please
consider that others may not want to read or even see articles
that are not related to metalworking. Your lack of
consideration is driving away those who have a serious interest
in metalworking and may just have an answer to a difficult
problem being posed but don't read RCM because of all the OT
noise.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I've found that the regulars on RCM
tend to see the other readers as family, with RCM the medium that allows
them to "see" one another when possible.

I have to agree that there are times when the "noise" is quite loud, but
even when the subject is considerably off topic, many of us seem to find
something worthwhile to discuss, leading to something worth hearing and
saving. I fully understand how your time may be precious, for I used to
work very long days when I was gainfully employed and cherished every moment
I could find away from my work. I certainly didn't like wasting any of it.

For the most part, those that post have been kind enough to suggest when
they are off topic, and it doesn't take much effort to overlook such posts.
I'm sure you've done your best to be patient with us, but you might try
reading some of the subjects you feel are not worthy of posting. You could
be pleasantly surprised with the things you might learn, assuming you can
find the time to do so. If not, I'm of the opinion that your objective is
hopeless in requesting posts be restricted to on topic subjects. For one,
there's not all that much for the majority of us to discuss, and I'm not
convinced many of us are ready to abandon something that brings us great
pleasure if we did. Give us a shot. You might enjoy being a part of the
family.


Harold

Harold, I agree with you on this, with the exception of the following. Most
anytime politics , religion, or sports creep into a talk, somebody's gonna
get riled up. Everyone seems to think their's is better. I have
traditionally refused to discuss these subjects in general talk and observed
that people's behavior is much more moderate and considerate towards others
whenever these subjects are not in play..
I enjoy a lot of the off topics such as "cats" and such, and feel that
that is just a sub-part of our hobbies and interests in the workshop,
promoting comraderie. After all, this IS a recreational category group.
Anything else gained is frosting on the cake.

Respectfully,
RJ



"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"Dave Beyerl" wrote in message
...
I am a hobbyist and part time tradesperson who reads
rec.crafts.metalworking (RCM) to gain insights into metal
working techniques, tool reviews and other metal working,
with the exception of welding (I separately subscribe to
the joining/welding groups), related matters,

I used to find RCM a good source for such information.
However, over the last few or more months, RCM has become
nothing less than a board for anyone to post anything, related
or not, to metalworking. The number of OT posts has reached
spam proportions and my KILL file far exceeds the number of
daily posts to this group.

There are literally thousands of news groups available
where the majority of these OT posts appropriately belong, e.g.
politics, computers, terrorism, etc. I would like to ask those
who think this group is the only one to post in to please
consider that others may not want to read or even see articles
that are not related to metalworking. Your lack of
consideration is driving away those who have a serious interest
in metalworking and may just have an answer to a difficult
problem being posed but don't read RCM because of all the OT
noise.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I've found that the regulars on
RCM
tend to see the other readers as family, with RCM the medium that allows
them to "see" one another when possible.

I have to agree that there are times when the "noise" is quite loud, but
even when the subject is considerably off topic, many of us seem to find
something worthwhile to discuss, leading to something worth hearing and
saving. I fully understand how your time may be precious, for I used to
work very long days when I was gainfully employed and cherished every
moment
I could find away from my work. I certainly didn't like wasting any of it.

For the most part, those that post have been kind enough to suggest when
they are off topic, and it doesn't take much effort to overlook such
posts.
I'm sure you've done your best to be patient with us, but you might try
reading some of the subjects you feel are not worthy of posting. You
could
be pleasantly surprised with the things you might learn, assuming you can
find the time to do so. If not, I'm of the opinion that your objective
is
hopeless in requesting posts be restricted to on topic subjects. For one,
there's not all that much for the majority of us to discuss, and I'm not
convinced many of us are ready to abandon something that brings us great
pleasure if we did. Give us a shot. You might enjoy being a part of
the
family.


Harold

In article , Harold & Susan Vordos says...

For the most part, those that post have been kind enough to suggest when
they are off topic, and it doesn't take much effort to overlook such posts.
I'm sure you've done your best to be patient with us, but you might try
reading some of the subjects you feel are not worthy of posting. You could
be pleasantly surprised with the things you might learn, assuming you can
find the time to do so. If not, I'm of the opinion that your objective is
hopeless in requesting posts be restricted to on topic subjects. For one,
there's not all that much for the majority of us to discuss, and I'm not
convinced many of us are ready to abandon something that brings us great
pleasure if we did. Give us a shot. You might enjoy being a part of the
family.

That's just about the smoothest way of getting the point across. You
did forget to add in one thing however - that compared to the rest of
usenet, rcm has a very low rate of off topic stuff and the off topic
stuff has a way of migrating back on topic after a while. Granted
there are *some* ngs with a higher S/N but if one were to average over
all of usnet this one is probably in the top ten percent.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Backlash says...

Harold, I agree with you on this, with the exception of the following. Most
anytime politics , religion, or sports creep into a talk, somebody's gonna
get riled up.

Guns. You forgot guns.

:^)

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

On 29 Jan 2004 09:02:06 GMT, (Dave Beyerl)
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

Do you ever _contribute_ to the group, metal realted or not. This
would give you more right to grizzle. I see no posts from you until
now.

I also think that OT stuff keeps things lively. You don;t have to read
what doesn't interest you.

I am a hobbyist and part time tradesperson who reads
rec.crafts.metalworking (RCM) to gain insights into metal
working techniques, tool reviews and other metal working,
with the exception of welding (I separately subscribe to
the joining/welding groups), related matters,

I used to find RCM a good source for such information.
However, over the last few or more months, RCM has become
nothing less than a board for anyone to post anything, related

************************************************** ** sorry
remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Spike....Spike? Hello?

"Dave Beyerl" wrote in message
...
I am a hobbyist and part time tradesperson who reads
rec.crafts.metalworking (RCM) to gain insights into metal
working techniques, tool reviews and other metal working,
with the exception of welding (I separately subscribe to
the joining/welding groups), related matters,

I used to find RCM a good source for such information.
However, over the last few or more months, RCM has become
nothing less than a board for anyone to post anything, related
or not, to metalworking. The number of OT posts has reached
spam proportions and my KILL file far exceeds the number of
daily posts to this group.

There are literally thousands of news groups available
where the majority of these OT posts appropriately belong, e.g.
politics, computers, terrorism, etc. I would like to ask those
who think this group is the only one to post in to please
consider that others may not want to read or even see articles
that are not related to metalworking. Your lack of
consideration is driving away those who have a serious interest
in metalworking and may just have an answer to a difficult
problem being posed but don't read RCM because of all the OT
noise.

OR, you could learn to use the delete key.

Old Nick wrote:
Do you ever _contribute_ to the group, metal realted or not. This
would give you more right to grizzle. ...

Well, I would put it a little differently. I would say that everyone
has equal _right_ to post, but unless you have contributed in the past,
you are less likely to have credibility, or to get respect over your
request. Kind of like the neighbor pounding on the door and asking the
HSM'ers gathered in the garage to stop laughing so loud.

Bob

SteveB wrote:
OR, you could learn to use the delete key.

If you use Netscape as your NG reader, the "K" key marks the thread to
be ignored. It's like killing the thread, with one keystroke. Also,
setting a message filter to ignore "OT" posts will catch a lot. RCM'ers
do mark some of their OT posts.

Bob

Bob Engelhardt wrote:
SteveB wrote:
OR, you could learn to use the delete key.

If you use Netscape as your NG reader, the "K" key marks the thread to
be ignored. It's like killing the thread, with one keystroke. Also,
setting a message filter to ignore "OT" posts will catch a lot. RCM'ers
do mark some of their OT posts.

Also the letter "t" marks all the posts in the thread
as 'read' and will be skipped. Furthermore the subject
line should have 'OT' in it like this post. HTH
--
SATOR AREPO TENET OPERA ROTAS
Have 5 nice days! John
******************************
--- ILN 000.000.001 ---

I'm guilty of a few OT posts but I notice that a common thread in lifestyles
exists within people that do metalworking, and often other things revolve
around our common ability to master creation of stuff by removing part of
that stuff until the thing we want remains. What do you think Michelangelo
Buonarroti
would have done with a Bridgeport and a lathe? Do you think that he
separated his world into neat little compartments that didn't overlap? I
believe that his relationship with his cat and political topics greatly
affected and inspired his work. Metalworking crafts take place in the
brain, turning cranks and pushing buttons are secondary.



"Dave Beyerl" wrote in message
...
I am a hobbyist and part time tradesperson who reads
rec.crafts.metalworking (RCM) to gain insights into metal
working techniques, tool reviews and other metal working,
with the exception of welding (I separately subscribe to
the joining/welding groups), related matters,

I used to find RCM a good source for such information.
However, over the last few or more months, RCM has become
nothing less than a board for anyone to post anything, related
or not, to metalworking. The number of OT posts has reached
spam proportions and my KILL file far exceeds the number of
daily posts to this group.

There are literally thousands of news groups available
where the majority of these OT posts appropriately belong, e.g.
politics, computers, terrorism, etc. I would like to ask those
who think this group is the only one to post in to please
consider that others may not want to read or even see articles
that are not related to metalworking. Your lack of
consideration is driving away those who have a serious interest
in metalworking and may just have an answer to a difficult
problem being posed but don't read RCM because of all the OT
noise.

On 29 Jan 2004 05:01:10 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Backlash says...

Harold, I agree with you on this, with the exception of the following. Most
anytime politics , religion, or sports creep into a talk, somebody's gonna
get riled up.

Guns. You forgot guns.

:^)

Guns have metalworking content, can and are made in home shops. G

Most gun threads are against those whom wish to remove that option.

Gunner


"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability,
accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose
and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee,
imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any
particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or
responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect
to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by
any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it
into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts
that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other
agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within
five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or
by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron
who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece
of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a
bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

"Dave Beyerl" wrote in message
...
I am a hobbyist and part time tradesperson who reads
rec.crafts.metalworking (RCM) to gain insights into metal
working techniques, tool reviews and other metal working,
with the exception of welding (I separately subscribe to
the joining/welding groups), related matters,

I used to find RCM a good source for such information.
However, over the last few or more months, RCM has become
nothing less than a board for anyone to post anything, related
or not, to metalworking. The number of OT posts has reached
spam proportions and my KILL file far exceeds the number of
daily posts to this group.

There are literally thousands of news groups available
where the majority of these OT posts appropriately belong, e.g.
politics, computers, terrorism, etc. I would like to ask those
who think this group is the only one to post in to please
consider that others may not want to read or even see articles
that are not related to metalworking. Your lack of
consideration is driving away those who have a serious interest
in metalworking and may just have an answer to a difficult
problem being posed but don't read RCM because of all the OT
noise.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I've found that the regulars on RCM
tend to see the other readers as family, with RCM the medium that allows
them to "see" one another when possible.


What? Gunner and I are family now? :-) Perish the thought will you?

All kidding aside, I think you are right. Newsgroups after a while tend to
become like the local bar you used to hang out in, where you were a regular and
all the regulars know you. We talked about anything and everything, and
everyone went home drunk and friends. Never a fist fight.

But family?!? With Gunner?!?

OH BTW, isn't this topic itself off topic?

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com

In article , Gunner says...

Most gun threads are against those whom wish to remove that option.

It's a *discussion*. Discussions don't have a target. They
not "against anyone." That's a very republican approach to live,
everthing's a contest - winners, losers, etc.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

Well stated..............

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
gy.com...
I'm guilty of a few OT posts but I notice that a common thread in
lifestyles
exists within people that do metalworking, and often other things revolve
around our common ability to master creation of stuff by removing part of
that stuff until the thing we want remains. What do you think
Michelangelo
Buonarroti
would have done with a Bridgeport and a lathe? Do you think that he
separated his world into neat little compartments that didn't overlap? I
believe that his relationship with his cat and political topics greatly
affected and inspired his work. Metalworking crafts take place in the
brain, turning cranks and pushing buttons are secondary.

"Backlash" wrote in message
...
Harold, I agree with you on this, with the exception of the following.
Most
anytime politics , religion, or sports creep into a talk, somebody's
gonna
get riled up. Everyone seems to think their's is better. I have
traditionally refused to discuss these subjects in general talk and
observed
that people's behavior is much more moderate and considerate towards
others
whenever these subjects are not in play..
I enjoy a lot of the off topics such as "cats" and such, and feel that
that is just a sub-part of our hobbies and interests in the workshop,
promoting comraderie. After all, this IS a recreational category group.
Anything else gained is frosting on the cake.

Respectfully,
RJ

Thanks for the nice inclusion (or exception), RJ. I fully agree. While I
may read comments on these subjects, I'm inclined to avoid them. I have
my own religious prejudices (I'm agnostic and don't tolerate bible thumpers
well).

I know very little about politics aside from thinking that, for the most
part, politicians are not worthy of my time, in general a pack of wolves.
No---------- make that hungry wolves.

Sports? Who the hell cares! I have a lot more important fish to fry.
If it wasn't for ice hockey or curling, I'm not convinced there's ever been
a sport worth watching. No, I'm not from Canada.

Pretty easy to see why those topics are better left alone, isn't it? g

Regards,

Harold

"Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...
RJ

Thanks for the nice inclusion (or exception), RJ. I fully agree. While
I
may read comments on these subjects, I'm inclined to avoid them. I have
my own religious prejudices (I'm agnostic and don't tolerate bible
thumpers
well).

I know very little about politics aside from thinking that, for the most
part, politicians are not worthy of my time, in general a pack of wolves.
No---------- make that hungry wolves.

Sports? Who the hell cares! I have a lot more important fish to fry.
If it wasn't for ice hockey or curling, I'm not convinced there's ever
been
a sport worth watching. No, I'm not from Canada.

Pretty easy to see why those topics are better left alone, isn't it? g

Regards,

Harold


Ah! A man after my own heart! Except for the sports (I'm not interested in
any sport what so ever). Welcome......

Lane

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
gy.com...
Metalworking crafts take place in the
brain, turning cranks and pushing buttons are secondary.

Damn Tom
I think that you have finally explained the root of MY problems!
lg
no neat sig line

He's using some kind of killfile as mentioned in his letter. Does he
filter the OT posts and then read them anyway?

Steve Smith

Bob Engelhardt wrote:

SteveB wrote:


OR, you could learn to use the delete key.



If you use Netscape as your NG reader, the "K" key marks the thread to
be ignored. It's like killing the thread, with one keystroke. Also,
setting a message filter to ignore "OT" posts will catch a lot. RCM'ers
do mark some of their OT posts.

Bob

Send pics.....


"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
gy.com...
I'm guilty of a few OT posts but I notice that a common thread in
lifestyles
exists within people that do metalworking, and often other things revolve
around our common ability to master creation of stuff by removing part of
that stuff until the thing we want remains. What do you think
Michelangelo
Buonarroti
would have done with a Bridgeport and a lathe? Do you think that he
separated his world into neat little compartments that didn't overlap? I
believe that his relationship with his cat and political topics greatly
affected and inspired his work. Metalworking crafts take place in the
brain, turning cranks and pushing buttons are secondary.



"Dave Beyerl" wrote in message
...
I am a hobbyist and part time tradesperson who reads
rec.crafts.metalworking (RCM) to gain insights into metal
working techniques, tool reviews and other metal working,
with the exception of welding (I separately subscribe to
the joining/welding groups), related matters,

I used to find RCM a good source for such information.
However, over the last few or more months, RCM has become
nothing less than a board for anyone to post anything, related
or not, to metalworking. The number of OT posts has reached
spam proportions and my KILL file far exceeds the number of
daily posts to this group.

There are literally thousands of news groups available
where the majority of these OT posts appropriately belong, e.g.
politics, computers, terrorism, etc. I would like to ask those
who think this group is the only one to post in to please
consider that others may not want to read or even see articles
that are not related to metalworking. Your lack of
consideration is driving away those who have a serious interest
in metalworking and may just have an answer to a difficult
problem being posed but don't read RCM because of all the OT
noise.

Send pics.....


"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
gy.com...
I'm guilty of a few OT posts but I notice that a common thread in
lifestyles
exists within people that do metalworking, and often other things revolve
around our common ability to master creation of stuff by removing part of
that stuff until the thing we want remains. What do you think
Michelangelo
Buonarroti
would have done with a Bridgeport and a lathe? Do you think that he
separated his world into neat little compartments that didn't overlap? I
believe that his relationship with his cat and political topics greatly
affected and inspired his work. Metalworking crafts take place in the
brain, turning cranks and pushing buttons are secondary.



"Dave Beyerl" wrote in message
...
I am a hobbyist and part time tradesperson who reads
rec.crafts.metalworking (RCM) to gain insights into metal
working techniques, tool reviews and other metal working,
with the exception of welding (I separately subscribe to
the joining/welding groups), related matters,

I used to find RCM a good source for such information.
However, over the last few or more months, RCM has become
nothing less than a board for anyone to post anything, related
or not, to metalworking. The number of OT posts has reached
spam proportions and my KILL file far exceeds the number of
daily posts to this group.

There are literally thousands of news groups available
where the majority of these OT posts appropriately belong, e.g.
politics, computers, terrorism, etc. I would like to ask those
who think this group is the only one to post in to please
consider that others may not want to read or even see articles
that are not related to metalworking. Your lack of
consideration is driving away those who have a serious interest
in metalworking and may just have an answer to a difficult
problem being posed but don't read RCM because of all the OT
noise.

Troll

(If you don't believe me, look already !)

Tim

--
"That's for the courts to decide." - Homer Simpson
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

"Dave Beyerl" wrote in message
...
I am a hobbyist and part time tradesperson who reads
rec.crafts.metalworking (RCM) to gain insights into metal
working techniques, tool reviews and other metal working,
with the exception of welding (I separately subscribe to
the joining/welding groups), related matters,

I used to find RCM a good source for such information.
However, over the last few or more months, RCM has become
nothing less than a board for anyone to post anything, related
or not, to metalworking. The number of OT posts has reached
spam proportions and my KILL file far exceeds the number of
daily posts to this group.

There are literally thousands of news groups available
where the majority of these OT posts appropriately belong, e.g.
politics, computers, terrorism, etc. I would like to ask those
who think this group is the only one to post in to please
consider that others may not want to read or even see articles
that are not related to metalworking. Your lack of
consideration is driving away those who have a serious interest
in metalworking and may just have an answer to a difficult
problem being posed but don't read RCM because of all the OT
noise.

On 29 Jan 2004 11:30:35 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

Most gun threads are against those whom wish to remove that option.

It's a *discussion*. Discussions don't have a target. They
not "against anyone." That's a very republican approach to live,
everthing's a contest - winners, losers, etc.

Jim

Gosh Jim, thats a very Taoist thing to say.

There is apparently no right or wrong, no winners or losers.
Interesting.

Am I correct in interpreting your statements?

Gunner


"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability,
accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose
and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee,
imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any
particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or
responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect
to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by
any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it
into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts
that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other
agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within
five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or
by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron
who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece
of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a
bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'

On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 17:52:36 GMT, Abrasha wrote:

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

"Dave Beyerl" wrote in message
...
I am a hobbyist and part time tradesperson who reads
rec.crafts.metalworking (RCM) to gain insights into metal
working techniques, tool reviews and other metal working,
with the exception of welding (I separately subscribe to
the joining/welding groups), related matters,

I used to find RCM a good source for such information.
However, over the last few or more months, RCM has become
nothing less than a board for anyone to post anything, related
or not, to metalworking. The number of OT posts has reached
spam proportions and my KILL file far exceeds the number of
daily posts to this group.

There are literally thousands of news groups available
where the majority of these OT posts appropriately belong, e.g.
politics, computers, terrorism, etc. I would like to ask those
who think this group is the only one to post in to please
consider that others may not want to read or even see articles
that are not related to metalworking. Your lack of
consideration is driving away those who have a serious interest
in metalworking and may just have an answer to a difficult
problem being posed but don't read RCM because of all the OT
noise.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I've found that the regulars on RCM
tend to see the other readers as family, with RCM the medium that allows
them to "see" one another when possible.


What? Gunner and I are family now? :-) Perish the thought will you?

All kidding aside, I think you are right. Newsgroups after a while tend to
become like the local bar you used to hang out in, where you were a regular and
all the regulars know you. We talked about anything and everything, and
everyone went home drunk and friends. Never a fist fight.

But family?!? With Gunner?!?

Of course. You are the dranged cousin we keep chained in the basement
G

OH BTW, isn't this topic itself off topic?

Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com


"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability,
accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose
and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee,
imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any
particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or
responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect
to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by
any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it
into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts
that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other
agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within
five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or
by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron
who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece
of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a
bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'

In article , Gunner says...

On 29 Jan 2004 11:30:35 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Gunner says...

Most gun threads are against those whom wish to remove that option.

It's a *discussion*. Discussions don't have a target. They
not "against anyone." That's a very republican approach to live,
everthing's a contest - winners, losers, etc.

Jim

Gosh Jim, thats a very Taoist thing to say.

There is apparently no right or wrong, no winners or losers.
Interesting.

Am I correct in interpreting your statements?

Gunner


"This device is provided without warranty of any kind as to reliability,
accuracy, existence or otherwise or fitness for any particular purpose
and Bioalchemic Products specifically does not warrant, guarantee,
imply or make any representations as to its merchantability for any
particular purpose and furthermore shall have no liability for or
responsibility to you or any other person, entity or deity with respect
to any loss or damage whatsoever caused by this device or object or by
any attempts to destroy it by hammering it against a wall or dropping it
into a deep well or any other means whatsoever and moreover asserts
that you indicate your acceptance of this agreement or any other
agreement that may he substituted at any time by coming within
five miles of the product or observing it through large telescopes or
by any other means because you are such an easily cowed moron
who will happily accept arrogant and unilateral conditions on a piece
of highly priced garbage that you would not dream of accepting on a
bag of dog biscuits and is used solely at your own risk.'

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In article , Gunner says...

There is apparently no right or wrong, no winners or losers.
Interesting.

Am I correct in interpreting your statements?

No. Just that as previously referenced, the ng can be though
of as a family. If one is always confrontational, if one
always has to win the argument rather than participate in
the discussion, this means something's amiss.

Granted there are times when posters here are simply abusive
and wrong. Ol' RSJ, altavox, that ryker-dude come to mind.
Then everyone seems to know what's up and it becomes us or
them.

Right or wrong? OK, I'll answer the question if you clarify.
Usenet or real life?

Winners, losers? Tougher question. A person can do everything
right and still get hit by the proverbial meteor. Looks like
a winner, but really is a loser. Or are they still winners,
because they behaved like winners as they got crushed? That
part of your question is a lot more intricate than the first
part.

Jim

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I agree there is way to much OT BS in this group.
We don't need discussions pertaining to WMD in Iraq.
We don't need to know about politation John somebody
or criminal so and so going to trial.
We don't need people bashing Pete A any more than
we need discussions about altrovoz.


chuck

"Charles A. Sherwood" wrote in message
...
I agree there is way to much OT BS in this group.
We don't need discussions pertaining to WMD in Iraq.
We don't need to know about politation John somebody
or criminal so and so going to trial.
We don't need people bashing Pete A any more than
we need discussions about altrovoz.


chuck


Then don't read them!

lane wrote:
"Charles A. Sherwood" wrote in message
...
I agree there is way to much OT BS in this group.
We don't need discussions pertaining to WMD in Iraq.
We don't need to know about politation John somebody
or criminal so and so going to trial.
We don't need people bashing Pete A any more than
we need discussions about altrovoz.


chuck


Then don't read them!
And don't post replies to of topic threads! (pot/kettle sort of thing?)
Regards.
Ken.

Then don't read them!
And don't post replies to of topic threads! (pot/kettle sort of thing?)

So you guys are are saying that reguardless of what people want and
what is right, you are going to continue doing what you want to do.

You see, this is exactly why some very good people stopped participating
in this group. It is exactly why John Stevenson left a long time ago.
It drives the good people away...

"Charles A. Sherwood" wrote in message
...
It drives the good people away...

Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen...

OT, bitching, whining, flaming and of course interesting discussion are all
part of a newsgroup. At any given point in time there will be threads about
scraping the ways on your Monarch, cutting the longest SS chip, whining
about the president, and appreciating/despising cats. I wonder if anyone
has ever done a scientific study of newsgroup dynamics.....

Tim

--
"That's for the courts to decide." - Homer Simpson
Website @ http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

It drives the good people away...

Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen...

And you are telling everybody that disagrees with you to
just go away. So its your way or the highway.

Like I said, It drives the good people away.

"Tim Williams" wrote in message
...
"Charles A. Sherwood" wrote in message
...
It drives the good people away...

Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen...

OT, bitching, whining, flaming and of course interesting discussion are
all
part of a newsgroup. At any given point in time there will be threads
about
scraping the ways on your Monarch, cutting the longest SS chip, whining
about the president, and appreciating/despising cats. I wonder if anyone
has ever done a scientific study of newsgroup dynamics.....

Tim


Why study it, we are in the trenches and see what is going on? And I assure
you, we are far from having anywhere near the "noise" level of other NG's.
In fact of those I've looked at or read at one time or another, RCW is one
of the tamest. Those that don't like it can either ignore it or leave. It
certainly isn't going to change, no matter how loud anyone whines.

Lane

"Charles A. Sherwood" wrote in message
...
It drives the good people away...

Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen...

And you are telling everybody that disagrees with you to
just go away. So its your way or the highway.

Like I said, It drives the good people away.


You don't get it do you. It is not "his" way, it is just the way it is. It
won't change. What you are asking is like asking people not to eat meat.
Sure there are those that can make a very good claim that it is bad for you
etc etc etc. But do you really think you can change everyone. No way! So,
the end result is. If you can't live with this NG the way it is, leave! It's
like people who complain about TV programs, if you don't like it. Turn it
off! Geeesh! Go start your own moderated NG and run it the way you want,
with a heavy hand.

Lane

In article , Charles A. Sherwood says...

So you guys are are saying that reguardless of what people want

What people?

I think the consensus so far has been that some percentage of
OT posts here is inevitable and not undesireable.

1) this ng has a very low percentage of OT stuff compared with
usenet overall.

2) as a non-moderated group, it is not possible to enforce
zero-OT requirements. Simply cannot be done.

There have been folks who left the ng, that's true. Some of them
left for this reason, others for other reasons. Some folks just
flat out died. I don't think the general population here
could prevent any of those occurences.

Jim

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Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

I know very little about politics aside from thinking that, for the most
part, politicians are not worthy of my time, in general a pack of wolves.
No---------- make that hungry wolves.

I have to disagree with you there. Wolves are very couragous, loyal
creatures who will defend their pack to the death. Have you ever met a
politician to whom you could apply that statement? If so, you are more
fortunate than I.

Sports? Who the hell cares! I have a lot more important fish to fry.
If it wasn't for ice hockey or curling, I'm not convinced there's ever been
a sport worth watching. No, I'm not from Canada.

Well, I'll watch curling occasionally and isn't Junkyard Wars sort of
close to a sport? :-)

Ted

You don't get it do you. It is not "his" way, it is just the way it is. It

Obviously I do not get it. I do not see why cars are not discussed in rec.auto
and why workworking is not discussed in rec.woodworking and why politics
is not discussed in rec.politics.

I have seen many questions answered by: try rec.autos.? so apparently
the people that want to talk about cars discuss them in a car
newsgroup.

I think ther is so much OT stuff in this group because some of you want
it this way and insist on doing what you want to do. I also think there
are a lot of people that would prefer it otherways; Some of those have
choosen the alternative you give them and have left.

From your perspective, we should have only one newsgroup and discuss
everything from autos to zoology.

I don't mind hearing about gunners cats or the possimum in the shop or
even how to control humidity in the shop. But lets move some of the way
off topic stuff out of here so we don't drive away the rest of the
poeple that really want to discuss metalworking.
chuck

In article , Charles A. Sherwood says...

Obviously I do not get it. I do not see why cars are not discussed in rec.auto
and why workworking is not discussed in rec.woodworking and why politics
is not discussed in rec.politics.

Because these are non-moderated groups. If you have
a pickle barrel in your general store, folks are going
to sit around it yakking. Unless you throw them
out of the store, that's what they're going to do.

There are other moderated pickle barrels out there
where the S/N is indeed higher than what you find
in the general ng population. If you want this, I
suggest you seek out the mailing list or moderated
group, and you will get what you desire.

Jim

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"Ted Edwards" wrote in message
...
Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

I know very little about politics aside from thinking that, for the most
part, politicians are not worthy of my time, in general a pack of
wolves.
No---------- make that hungry wolves.

I have to disagree with you there. Wolves are very couragous, loyal
creatures who will defend their pack to the death. Have you ever met a
politician to whom you could apply that statement? If so, you are more
fortunate than I.

I beg your pardon. Can't imagine what I was thinkging, slurring wolves the
way I did! g


Sports? Who the hell cares! I have a lot more important fish to
fry.
If it wasn't for ice hockey or curling, I'm not convinced there's ever
been
a sport worth watching. No, I'm not from Canada.

Well, I'll watch curling occasionally and isn't Junkyard Wars sort of
close to a sport? :-)

I'm afraid you have me at a disadvantage. Never watched Junkyard Wars,
which I can only assume must be a TV program? It'd have to be damned good
to rival curling, a most fascinating display of skill. :-)

Ted

The deaths could have been prevented if they didn't eat red meat, had cats
and owned guns...while they were scraping their ways.

There have been folks who left the ng, that's true. Some of them
left for this reason, others for other reasons. Some folks just
flat out died.