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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... Installing a number of distros of Linux: Simply Mepis Knoppix Knottix Fedora Damned small Linux Beatrix When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account, modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems... I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits there. Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or whatever I was trying to open..but thats all I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays. I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a CopperMine clone. All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known to me..etc etc Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load, newsgroups bla bla bla.. Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again. Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the time. What the hell am I doing wrong??????? Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
In rec.crafts.metalworking on Mon, 02 Jan 2006 10:02:57 GMT
Gunner wrote: When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account, modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems... I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits there. First job - open a terminal (called xterm or root shell or terminal) and do more /etc/resolv.conf you should see something like [zebee@tasma tmp]$ more /etc/resolv.conf nameserver 220.233.0.4 nameserver 220.233.0.3 there may be other things, but you should have at least one nameserver line. If you don't, then your ISP isn't feeding you a nameserver with your PPP, it might be that your linux distros aren't asking for it. (I"ve always put 'em in by hand, so can't help with getting it via PPP) On your ISP's help page they should list things like the mail server to use, check if they give you a nameserver. If they do, then become root on your linux box and edit the /etc/resolv.conf file, adding a line like above, using your ISPs nameserver address. If there is a nameserver in the resolv.conf, then try pinging it. given the nameservers above you'd do [zebee@tasma tmp]$ ping 220.233.0.4 and get something like [zebee@tasma tmp]$ ping 220.233.0.4 PING 220.233.0.4 (220.233.0.4) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 220.233.0.4: icmp_seq=0 ttl=61 time=16.6 ms if you don't, then the nameserver IP is likely wrong, ring your ISP and ask them to tell you the right one. If you have a nameserver and it pings, then try this: [zebee@tasma tmp]$ ping www.google.com PING www.l.google.com (66.102.7.104) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from 66.102.7.104: icmp_seq=0 ttl=244 time=184 ms If it can't get an IP for google, then the nameserver is bad, ring the ISP. IF you can ping and resolve names, then it's a browser setup problem. Check your proxies. Zebee |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
What a sad tale of woe, Gunner :-(
I can say that 'cause I've been there. Take a look at www.linmodems.org These people are very helpful at analysing information from your machine and explaining how to get set up. BTW, I have found that a SmartLink, PCI modem with an SL1900 chipset will operate Mepis very well on several different computers. Hope this helps. Lewis. ***** |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote:
Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to run anything but windows? Installing a number of distros of Linux: Simply Mepis Knoppix Knottix Fedora Damned small Linux Beatrix When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account, modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems... I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits there. Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or whatever I was trying to open..but thats all I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays. I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a CopperMine clone. All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known to me..etc etc Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load, newsgroups bla bla bla.. Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again. Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the time. What the hell am I doing wrong??????? Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
Gunner writes:
What the hell am I doing wrong??????? Type these commands. ifconfig -a netstat -nr They tell us if your PPP link has an IP address, and if there is routing set up for it. Next - you have to try "ping" to send packets to someone on the same network. See Zebee's post. -- Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of $500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract. |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
In misc.survivalism Zebee Johnstone wrote:
If it can't get an IP for google, then the nameserver is bad, ring the ISP. IF you can ping and resolve names, then it's a browser setup problem. Check your proxies. Would it make sense to simply enter the IP address into the browser, (or ping by IP) and see if it works, rather than use the diagnostic procedure you outline above? -- A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves. --Edward R. Murrow |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
Gunner wrote:
snip Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or whatever I was trying to open..but thats all I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays. I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a CopperMine clone. All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known to me..etc etc Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy Aha! A Clue! settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load, newsgroups bla bla bla.. Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again. Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the time. What the hell am I doing wrong??????? I feel your pain. I assume you've stepped through the _How to hook up PPP_ document; you state that you get logged in. I finally dumped two ISPs because they did *something* to their machines that broke my linux setup that had worked for years. The NT weenies that worked there couldn't tell me what happened, nor could they tell me what I had to do to fix it ("we only support windows"). I was even in the main office of one ISP, complaining that I couldn't get a PPP connection, I could only get a shell (which is *so* *wrong* it isn't funny). AND THEY WERE ABLE TO DUPLICATE MY PROBLEM, AND DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO FIX IT! I finally came to the suspicion that someone had decided that the cure for the insecurities of using M$ for an ISP server could be cured by disabling tcp/ip and only allowing netbooey connections. This accounted for all the facts, and pointed me to a fix. Try another ISP, one that publicly supports linux. Worked for me. later co |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
Have you tried cnnecting to a site by its pure IP address alone?
Sounds liek the DNS or defauly gateways are out to lunch Gunner wrote: Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... Installing a number of distros of Linux: Simply Mepis Knoppix Knottix Fedora Damned small Linux Beatrix When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account, modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems... I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits there. Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or whatever I was trying to open..but thats all I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays. I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a CopperMine clone. All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known to me..etc etc Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load, newsgroups bla bla bla.. Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again. Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the time. What the hell am I doing wrong??????? Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
In article ,
Cydrome Leader wrote: In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote: Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to run anything but windows? Huh? Compared to MacOS, Windows is a notorious timewaster, so clearly you will be switching to MacOS immediately? Joe Gwinn |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
Gunner wrote:
Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... Installing a number of distros of Linux: Simply Mepis Knoppix Knottix Fedora Damned small Linux Beatrix When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account, modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems... I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits there. Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or whatever I was trying to open..but thats all I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays. I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a CopperMine clone. All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known to me..etc etc Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load, newsgroups bla bla bla.. Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again. Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the time. What the hell am I doing wrong??????? If I were not so blasted lazy, I would carefully read your description and realize that this is over my head. However, it won't take long to try what I have in mind, and it would isolate a common problem. Connect, open a browser, hit stop until it responds to you, and then type the following URL: http://64.29.201.96 and click go or hit enter. If you see a page, your problem is almost certainly the DNS configuration. One caveat is that many servers operate multiple sites so that an IP number alone is not sufficient to get their attention. Bill |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
Gunner wrote:
Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... Installing a number of distros of Linux: Simply Mepis Knoppix Knottix Fedora Damned small Linux Beatrix When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account, modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems... I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits there. Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or whatever I was trying to open..but thats all I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays. I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a CopperMine clone. All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known to me..etc etc Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load, newsgroups bla bla bla.. Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again. Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the time. What the hell am I doing wrong??????? Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner Try using Kppp then set up your ISP DNS server search orders the ###.###.###.### numbers the ISP gave you then set up your domain name ISP.com,net,org make sure to have the use default gateway on remote net work checked. Clear out the information you used to proxy to the winblows machine it interferes with the DNS connections gateway should be 0.0.0.0. be sure it default routes through the modem not the nic unless you have a high speed connection then you just need to clear out the data you used to proxy enter the ISP information and MAKE SURE the gateway is 0.0.0.0. Some arrogant ISPs refuse to support Linux so you may run into resistance but you could try to look it up at the ISP source. AKA go to the ISP main page look up in their search engines for Linux and hit return. Try this out and let me know here. TSS -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. The fearful are caught as often as the bold. - Helen Keller ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
Cydrome Leader wrote:
In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote: Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to run anything but windows? There are many reasons to avoid Microsoft. It can be as simple as having and old computer to view drawings in a shop (no reason to pay $100-200 for that simple task) to running servers where Linux is faster, more stable, more secure, and less subject to the whim of a company that churns the market at every opportunity and builds eye candy at the expense of fixing defects and cleaning up their designs. Don't even get me stated about what they did with the Pen Windows API in the late 90's - in short, they had documented functions to be supported on Win32 for all time, and then yanked them w/o warning. With the cross-posts to a survivalism group, I can also assume that having the source code to the OS is of interest, and I certainly won't argue with that. Bill |
#14
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article , Cydrome Leader wrote: In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote: Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to run anything but windows? Huh? Compared to MacOS, Windows is a notorious timewaster, so clearly you will be switching to MacOS immediately? Joe Gwinn Only for the clueless. MacOS was total crap up until Apple finally realized they lacked the expertise to write an OS and put their UI over someone else's Unix core. Now instead of being a crappy UI on top of a crappy OS, it's a crappy UI on top of a so-so OS. Don't mistake me for a Windoze bigot either, I use Windoze for a lot of things for two reasons: 1. When you have a clue, Windoze is perfectly stable. Over five different systems, two of which run 24x7, I average one Windoze crash / problem every couple years. I have also never had a virus on any of these systems despite the fact they are on a cable modem connection full time. People who have problems with Windoze primarily bring it on themselves and will do the same regardless of the OS. 2. Many pieces of software I use are only for, or run best on Windoze and they run without any problems whatsoever on my systems. In the Linux world there are open source substitutes for some of these programs, however they are inconsistent, are often missing important features and have essentially no support. If you want a rock solid, secure and reliable OS you will not find it in Windoze, MacOS or Linux, you also will not find it for free. Pete C. |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:33:00 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote: In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote: Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to run anything but windows? Run Linux..which pretty much justifies trying to run something besides Winblows. But then..Ive been known to make my own parts, rather than go buy them too. Gunner Installing a number of distros of Linux: Simply Mepis Knoppix Knottix Fedora Damned small Linux Beatrix When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account, modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems... I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits there. Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or whatever I was trying to open..but thats all I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays. I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a CopperMine clone. All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known to me..etc etc Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load, newsgroups bla bla bla.. Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again. Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the time. What the hell am I doing wrong??????? Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
Pete,
Only for the clueless. MacOS was total crap up until Apple finally realized they lacked the expertise to write an OS and put their UI over someone else's Unix core. Now instead of being a crappy UI on top of a crappy OS, it's a crappy UI on top of a so-so OS. I can't much comment on the Mac OS line, but what little I have seen of their UI suggests that it is over simplified and too cute for its own good, but also pretty damn good in its own way. Don't mistake me for a Windoze bigot either, I use Windoze for a lot of things for two reasons: 1. When you have a clue, Windoze is perfectly stable. Over five different systems, two of which run 24x7, I average one Windoze crash / problem every couple years. I have also never had a virus on any of these systems despite the fact they are on a cable modem connection full time. I have had similar experience, but I attribute it in large part to disregarding much of what Microsoft wants me to do. At this point, I use Windows because my development environment of choice targets only it. The list of enumerable benefits of Windows is shrinking, and the list of reasons to leave is growing. People who have problems with Windoze primarily bring it on themselves and will do the same regardless of the OS. Very true. However, as Microsoft becomes more forceful with their activation systems and shortens their life cycles, there will be an increase in problems forced by marketing vs. technology changes and security constraints. 2. Many pieces of software I use are only for, or run best on Windoze and they run without any problems whatsoever on my systems. In the Linux world there are open source substitutes for some of these programs, however they are inconsistent, are often missing important features and have essentially no support. Granted. However, I can say pretty much the same thing about much of what Microsoft produces; it all depends on whether one is being clobbered by a defect with high visbility. Bill |
#17
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
In article ,
"Pete C." wrote: Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , Cydrome Leader wrote: In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote: Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to run anything but windows? Huh? Compared to MacOS, Windows is a notorious timewaster, so clearly you will be switching to MacOS immediately? Joe Gwinn Only for the clueless. I made my living as an embedded realtime programmer for 20 or 30 years. I use MacOS at home (where I'm the IT Department), and Windows plus UNIX at work. MacOS is simply less trouble, by a lot. MacOS was total crap up until Apple finally realized they lacked the expertise to write an OS and put their UI over someone else's Unix core. Now instead of being a crappy UI on top of a crappy OS, it's a crappy UI on top of a so-so OS. Don't mistake me for a Windoze bigot either, ... Could have fooled me. Listen to yourself, listen to the music. ...I use Windoze for a lot of things for two reasons: 1. When you have a clue, Windoze is perfectly stable. Over five different systems, two of which run 24x7, I average one Windoze crash / problem every couple years. I have also never had a virus on any of these systems despite the fact they are on a cable modem connection full time. People who have problems with Windoze primarily bring it on themselves and will do the same regardless of the OS. You are very fortunate. One wonders how long your luck will last. The rest of the world must be pretty clueless, because they have all these problems, in spades. and the computer mags are full of sad tales. As for security problems, there are tens of thousands of viruses et al for Windows, maybe ten for MacOS (none that still work), and essentially zero for most flavors of UNIX. Because MacOS is only for the clueless, it cannot be that the lack of trouble on Macs is due to clued-in users. So there must be some other, simpler explanation. 2. Many pieces of software I use are only for, or run best on Windoze and they run without any problems whatsoever on my systems. In the Linux world there are open source substitutes for some of these programs, however they are inconsistent, are often missing important features and have essentially no support. I do have to run Windows to use some applications, but they are odd ones, like FEMM. Not to mention many CAD-CAM apps, and the like. Mainstream stuff is available on both MacOS and Windows, but less so on Linux. I agree that lots of Linux applications require some fiddling to use, but this is due more to their being open-source versus commercial. With the growth of Linux in the market, more commercial apps will support Linux, so this advantage is likely to erode over time. If you want a rock solid, secure and reliable OS you will not find it in Windoze, MacOS or Linux, you also will not find it for free. Well, I agree that it won't be free. It will cost time and/or money, one way or the other. MacOS is rock solid; this I know from direct personal experience. The real reason for a metalworker to use Windows is that many of the standard apps for metalworking and manufacturing are currently Windows-only, but these are slowly picking up Linux support. I'm planning to get a Dell PC at home for just this reason, but this PC will be well-isolated from the Internet. The App developers and their customers would dearly love to have an alternative to Windows, to regain control of their lives, to escape the Treadmill. Joe Gwinn |
#18
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
Pete what is your electricity bill like and why do you need so many
computers? Are you running a business or do you just like futzing with the things? I know you guys are gonna laugh but I have been using webtv fo almost 10 years now. Never get a virus, no popups, access to almost any site I need. I do have a modest pc when I want to scan something or do some writing. I snagged a couple older Imac's yesterday. Once I get them sorted out they will be given away. |
#19
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
Gawd I had to jump in here... I run both 'doze and 'nix...
'doze cause I'm a software developer and MANY clients require it.... 'nix 'cause it IS a better DNS/Mail/Webserver "Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message ... [SNIP] HMM Then I guess all those BIND exploits that root kitted 'nix were fantasy... Or the FTP exploits, or the telnet hacks, of the somewhat recently announced PostGreSql exploit.. not to mention anyone stupid enough to run DSO on anykind of machine exposed as a server... Yep all just must be fantasy... As for security problems, there are tens of thousands of viruses et al for Windows, maybe ten for MacOS (none that still work), and essentially zero for most flavors of UNIX. --.- Dave |
#20
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
Gunner wrote:
Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... Installing a number of distros of Linux: Simply Mepis Knoppix Knottix Fedora Damned small Linux Beatrix When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account, modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems... I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits there. Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or whatever I was trying to open..but thats all I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays. I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a CopperMine clone. All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known to me..etc etc Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load, newsgroups bla bla bla.. Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again. Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the time. What the hell am I doing wrong??????? Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you ever get your question answered? Have you tried one of the Linux newsgroups? They often seem to be informative, with sorting. I'd ask the question there. One thing to note: just about any post seems to generate a flame war, so you'll have to sort through some rants to get to the useful information. -- Tim Wescott Wescott Design Services http://www.wescottdesign.com |
#21
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 18:15:21 GMT, Bill Schwab
wrote: snip less subject to the whim of a company that churns the market at every opportunity and builds eye candy at the expense of fixing defects and cleaning up their designs. snip Bill ========================= No doubt directed by marketing alumni from Detroit's [former] big three auto companies. Just how do these people get to be in control of things? Uncle George |
#22
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
snip One thing to note: just about any post seems
to generate a flame war, so you'll have to sort through some rants to get to the useful information. snip Sounds a lot like rec.crafts.metalworking and alt.machines.cnc. He should be used to it. Uncle George |
#23
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 16:12:56 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote: In article , "Pete C." wrote: Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , Cydrome Leader wrote: In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote: Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to run anything but windows? Huh? Compared to MacOS, Windows is a notorious timewaster, so clearly you will be switching to MacOS immediately? Joe Gwinn Only for the clueless. I made my living as an embedded realtime programmer for 20 or 30 years. I use MacOS at home (where I'm the IT Department), and Windows plus UNIX at work. MacOS is simply less trouble, by a lot. MacOS was total crap up until Apple finally realized they lacked the expertise to write an OS and put their UI over someone else's Unix core. Now instead of being a crappy UI on top of a crappy OS, it's a crappy UI on top of a so-so OS. Don't mistake me for a Windoze bigot either, ... Could have fooled me. Listen to yourself, listen to the music. ...I use Windoze for a lot of things for two reasons: 1. When you have a clue, Windoze is perfectly stable. Over five different systems, two of which run 24x7, I average one Windoze crash / problem every couple years. I have also never had a virus on any of these systems despite the fact they are on a cable modem connection full time. People who have problems with Windoze primarily bring it on themselves and will do the same regardless of the OS. You are very fortunate. One wonders how long your luck will last. The rest of the world must be pretty clueless, because they have all these problems, in spades. and the computer mags are full of sad tales. As for security problems, there are tens of thousands of viruses et al for Windows, maybe ten for MacOS (none that still work), and essentially zero for most flavors of UNIX. Because MacOS is only for the clueless, it cannot be that the lack of trouble on Macs is due to clued-in users. So there must be some other, simpler explanation. 2. Many pieces of software I use are only for, or run best on Windoze and they run without any problems whatsoever on my systems. In the Linux world there are open source substitutes for some of these programs, however they are inconsistent, are often missing important features and have essentially no support. I do have to run Windows to use some applications, but they are odd ones, like FEMM. Not to mention many CAD-CAM apps, and the like. Mainstream stuff is available on both MacOS and Windows, but less so on Linux. I agree that lots of Linux applications require some fiddling to use, but this is due more to their being open-source versus commercial. With the growth of Linux in the market, more commercial apps will support Linux, so this advantage is likely to erode over time. If you want a rock solid, secure and reliable OS you will not find it in Windoze, MacOS or Linux, you also will not find it for free. Well, I agree that it won't be free. It will cost time and/or money, one way or the other. MacOS is rock solid; this I know from direct personal experience. The real reason for a metalworker to use Windows is that many of the standard apps for metalworking and manufacturing are currently Windows-only, but these are slowly picking up Linux support. I'm planning to get a Dell PC at home for just this reason, but this PC will be well-isolated from the Internet. The App developers and their customers would dearly love to have an alternative to Windows, to regain control of their lives, to escape the Treadmill. Joe Gwinn http://www.megagames.com/news/html/p...martdeal.shtml http://www.knowledgeproblem.com/archives/000537.html http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...,502196,00.asp Wal-Mart, Microtel Ship $199 Lindows PC By Mark Hachman Lindows.com and Wal-Mart.com have teamed up again, making a $199 PC available to the discount chain's online customers, and a Windows option available to those willing to pay a $100 premium. Lindows chief executive Michael Robertson had written that the company expected to sign a deal creating a $199 PC at about the end of last week. ADVERTISEMENT Unlike the other Microtel PCs sold by Wal-Mart, however, the new Microtel SYSMAR710 model includes a 800-MHz Via C3 processor, disdaining chips from AMD or Intel. In addition, according to Via, Wal-Mart will sell a similar SYSMAR715 PC, also based on the Lindows OS, which will be priced at $218. But while the SYSMAR710 can be purchased on the Wal-Mart website, the SYSMAR715 does not seem to be available. Representatives at Wal-Mart.com were unable to be contacted due to the Labor Day weekend in the U.S. "Via is a company that delivers high quality technology solutions, providing satisfaction and affordability to our customers," said Rich Hindman, vice president of Microtel, in a statement. "The Microtel LindowsOS SYSMAR710 system is a new benchmark in performance and usability for mainstream PC buyers." The new $199 PC lacks a monitor, but includes most of the basics needed for a low-end PC: 128 Mbytes of RAM, a 10-Gbyte hard drive, integrated Trident 2D/3D graphics, a 52X CD-ROM, and integrated sound. A pair of USB ports are included, as well as two PCI slots and an ISA slot. "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#24
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 14:11:32 -0800, Tim Wescott
wrote: Gunner wrote: Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... Installing a number of distros of Linux: Simply Mepis Knoppix Knottix Fedora Damned small Linux Beatrix When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account, modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems... I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits there. Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or whatever I was trying to open..but thats all I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays. I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a CopperMine clone. All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known to me..etc etc Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load, newsgroups bla bla bla.. Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again. Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the time. What the hell am I doing wrong??????? Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you ever get your question answered? Have you tried one of the Linux newsgroups? They often seem to be informative, with sorting. I'd ask the question there. One thing to note: just about any post seems to generate a flame war, so you'll have to sort through some rants to get to the useful information. Lots of suggestions..and Ill work on them later today. Im busy trying to repair my roof..of which a fair amount blew off in the the 70mph winds we had Sunday. Damnit Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#26
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article , "Pete C." wrote: Joseph Gwinn wrote: In article , Cydrome Leader wrote: In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote: Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to run anything but windows? Huh? Compared to MacOS, Windows is a notorious timewaster, so clearly you will be switching to MacOS immediately? Joe Gwinn Only for the clueless. I made my living as an embedded realtime programmer for 20 or 30 years. I use MacOS at home (where I'm the IT Department), and Windows plus UNIX at work. MacOS is simply less trouble, by a lot. I must say that I have little hands-on experience with MacOS as I find the UI infuriating. I do however have several friends that use Macs to varying degrees and all have had plenty of problems. One friend is a teacher who uses both Macs and PCs extensively and reports that the Macs crash at least as often as the PCs. Another friend uses Macs almost exclusively and in 5 years and like three Macs she had a ratio of about 20:1 to the Windoze problems I had during that time. I did not see any decrease in the frequency of problems with the switch to OSX either. MacOS was total crap up until Apple finally realized they lacked the expertise to write an OS and put their UI over someone else's Unix core. Now instead of being a crappy UI on top of a crappy OS, it's a crappy UI on top of a so-so OS. Don't mistake me for a Windoze bigot either, ... Could have fooled me. Listen to yourself, listen to the music. How do you figure that? Anyone with any technical knowledge knows that the pre OSX versions of MacOS were hopelessly deficient in many areas, particularly the lack of memory management. OSX fixed many of the core problems, but the UI that I can't stand (I hated the UI on the first Lisa as well) remains. If I wanted an alternative to Windoze it certainly would not be Mac as there is simply no advantage whatsoever to MacOS over Linux or another Unix variant. ...I use Windoze for a lot of things for two reasons: 1. When you have a clue, Windoze is perfectly stable. Over five different systems, two of which run 24x7, I average one Windoze crash / problem every couple years. I have also never had a virus on any of these systems despite the fact they are on a cable modem connection full time. People who have problems with Windoze primarily bring it on themselves and will do the same regardless of the OS. You are very fortunate. One wonders how long your luck will last. The rest of the world must be pretty clueless, because they have all these problems, in spades. and the computer mags are full of sad tales. My "luck" has lasted for at least 15 years and I expect it will last a lot longer. It does appear that the world at large is rather clueless as it seems that they happily download the latest Napster variant or other program from questionable sources and then wonder why they have problems. My machines that have essentially no problems are devoid of the Napsters and their ilk. My machines have such things as TurboCAD, Mach3, WinIVR, MPLAB, Deskengrave, Photoshop Elements, P-Touch utilities, WinZip and the usual assortment of odds and ends like MS office, Netscape, etc. You will note a lack of any "questionable" software. As for security problems, there are tens of thousands of viruses et al for Windows, maybe ten for MacOS (none that still work), and essentially zero for most flavors of UNIX. There are many, many security problems that affect most flavors of Unix. If you want a secure OS, look at VMS or the Tandem and Stratus OSs. Because MacOS is only for the clueless, it cannot be that the lack of trouble on Macs is due to clued-in users. So there must be some other, simpler explanation. I have not seen this purported lack of trouble on Macs. Every single Mac user I have known (dozens) has reported plenty of problems. 2. Many pieces of software I use are only for, or run best on Windoze and they run without any problems whatsoever on my systems. In the Linux world there are open source substitutes for some of these programs, however they are inconsistent, are often missing important features and have essentially no support. I do have to run Windows to use some applications, but they are odd ones, like FEMM. Not to mention many CAD-CAM apps, and the like. CAD, CNC, IVR, development utilities for microcontrollers, etc. Mainstream stuff is available on both MacOS and Windows, but less so on Linux. Exactly. I agree that lots of Linux applications require some fiddling to use, but this is due more to their being open-source versus commercial. Open source is the source of some of it's own problems. One of the largest problems in this area is the lack of consistency in UI structure and documentation. With the growth of Linux in the market, more commercial apps will support Linux, so this advantage is likely to erode over time. The upcoming homogenization of the hardware market will help this a lot. The switch to OSX was one step towards Apple getting out of the hardware business which they have never been very good at. Now they have announced they are abandoning IBM's antiquated CPUs. In the near future you will simply select a generic hardware platform from the vendor of your choice and in the size / expandability / fault tolerance for your application, and then select your favorite OS to run on it from a field of dozens of variants that all run on the same hardware platform. If you want a rock solid, secure and reliable OS you will not find it in Windoze, MacOS or Linux, you also will not find it for free. Well, I agree that it won't be free. It will cost time and/or money, one way or the other. There are several out there, but they are in the "midrange" and "mainframe" space and none are cheap. At least one (VMS) is now running on three different hardware platforms including Itanium. MacOS is rock solid; this I know from direct personal experience. Well, from indirect personal experience, my Mac using friend reports problems on a weekly basis for one machine while my five Windoze machines keep chugging along happily. I expect that with OSX (and beyond) MacOS has the *potential* to be rock solid, just as Windoze does, but it seems the ultimate determinant of stability is the operator. The real reason for a metalworker to use Windows is that many of the standard apps for metalworking and manufacturing are currently Windows-only, but these are slowly picking up Linux support. I'm planning to get a Dell PC at home for just this reason, but this PC will be well-isolated from the Internet. I got a stack of surplus Dell Optiplex systems for $100 ea and they are great for quite a few things including CNC control. All my systems are on a common network and have no problems. The firewall / router provides a first line of defense and the only machine that has any inbound ports mapped to it has a software firewall as well. The App developers and their customers would dearly love to have an alternative to Windows, to regain control of their lives, to escape the Treadmill. That seems to depend on the app developer. It seems there are a large number of folks out there pretending to be programmers by gluing together (poorly) various chunks of purchased code libraries for Windoze to create hopelessly bloated, unstable and inefficient monstrosities and calling them applications. Pete C. |
#27
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
daniel peterman wrote:
Pete what is your electricity bill like and why do you need so many computers? Are you running a business or do you just like futzing with the things? I know you guys are gonna laugh but I have been using webtv fo almost 10 years now. Never get a virus, no popups, access to almost any site I need. I do have a modest pc when I want to scan something or do some writing. I snagged a couple older Imac's yesterday. Once I get them sorted out they will be given away. My electric bill is fairly high, but not from the computers, rather from electric heat and A/C and that big honkin' welder in the shop. The various computers serve different purposes. One is a laptop from work (I work from home) Another is my personal laptop where I do most of my email and surfing Another is my "central server" that serves as web server, central network storage and IVR server Another is my CAD/graphics PC with dual monitors, flatbed scanner and graphics tablet Another is my CNC controller / shop PC out in the detached shop Another is for my electronics bench (whenever it isn't buried) for microcontroller development and programming The two laptops and the central server are on 24x7, the others are on when I need them. Pete C. |
#28
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
Gunner wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 14:11:32 -0800, Tim Wescott wrote: Gunner wrote: Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... Installing a number of distros of Linux: Simply Mepis Knoppix Knottix Fedora Damned small Linux Beatrix When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account, modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems... I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits there. Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or whatever I was trying to open..but thats all I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays. I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a CopperMine clone. All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known to me..etc etc Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load, newsgroups bla bla bla.. Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again. Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the time. What the hell am I doing wrong??????? Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you ever get your question answered? Have you tried one of the Linux newsgroups? They often seem to be informative, with sorting. I'd ask the question there. One thing to note: just about any post seems to generate a flame war, so you'll have to sort through some rants to get to the useful information. Lots of suggestions..and Ill work on them later today. Im busy trying to repair my roof..of which a fair amount blew off in the the 70mph winds we had Sunday. Damnit Don't you hate those annoying little distractions? I've got the potential threat of grass fires to contend with here in the Dallas area. Pete C. Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#29
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
zadoc wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:32:56 GMT, "Pete C." wrote: [snip, see original] Don't you hate those annoying little distractions? I've got the potential threat of grass fires to contend with here in the Dallas area. Pete C. The fires in Texas and Oklahoma are even making the TV news in Sydney. As it is midwinter there, isn't this a bit unusual? Are people there starting to wonder about climatic changes and global warming? One wonders what midsummer will be like. Cheers, Dunno, it's apparently a bit warmer than normal. I bailed out of the frozen northeast to come down here and I'm loving the weather. It's 57 at the moment, was near 70 today, and I just talked to my mother in CT where it's 33 and snowing heavily. This past summer had a few 104 degree days, but the humidity was like 20% so as long as you were in the shade it was just fine. Pete C. |
#30
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
On Mon, 02 Jan, Pete C. wrote:
Only for the clueless. MacOS was total crap up until Apple finally realized they lacked the expertise to write an OS and put their UI over someone else's Unix core. Now instead of being a crappy UI on top of a crappy OS, it's a crappy UI on top of a so-so OS. I wouldn't characterize it as crappy. I would say it's still somewhat incomplete as compared to Windows (the UI, that is). Don't mistake me for a Windoze bigot either, I use Windoze for a lot of things for two reasons: 1. When you have a clue, Windoze is perfectly stable. Over five different systems, two of which run 24x7, I average one Windoze crash / problem every couple years. I have also never had a virus on any of these systems despite the fact they are on a cable modem connection full time. People who have problems with Windoze primarily bring it on themselves and will do the same regardless of the OS. I'd like to think myself a bit of a computer expert. I use Windows as well, and do not run anti-virus software and have never *knock*knock* had a virus, either. My main machine is a laptop running Linux, but I use a Mac on one side of it and a Windows box on the other depending on which one suits the job best. Unlike you, however, I do still see the occasional crash on Windows. I'd put it at more like three times per year at this point. That is *dramatically* down from previous versions of Windows (this is XP home that I keep updated) and I do consider it "decent." 2. Many pieces of software I use are only for, or run best on Windoze and they run without any problems whatsoever on my systems. In the Linux world there are open source substitutes for some of these programs, however they are inconsistent, are often missing important features and have essentially no support. Agreed. In some cases there is *no* equivalent on Linux or any other OS and not likely to be (like my Needhams ROM burner, my Garmin GPS, my Uniden radio scanner, etc). If you want a rock solid, secure and reliable OS you will not find it in Windoze, MacOS or Linux, you also will not find it for free. Err, I'd debate that statement. Linux is, IMHO, rock solid, secure, and reliable. It still isn't the right tool for every computing job, but it most assuredly is those three things. --Donnie -- Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com 879. V. |
#31
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
I figgered you wuz gonna say something like that. .
To Gunner You can store any amount of stuff you want on webtv by simply mailing the stuff to yourself. It's all held in the huge mainframe they run which of course is being watched by the NSA and various other bootleg agencies. Great for surfing, kinda slow for ebay great for craigslist. 27" monitor cost me 30 bucks. Unit cost me ten bux. No mouse. I likes it |
#32
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
Donnie Barnes wrote:
On Mon, 02 Jan, Pete C. wrote: Only for the clueless. MacOS was total crap up until Apple finally realized they lacked the expertise to write an OS and put their UI over someone else's Unix core. Now instead of being a crappy UI on top of a crappy OS, it's a crappy UI on top of a so-so OS. I wouldn't characterize it as crappy. I would say it's still somewhat incomplete as compared to Windows (the UI, that is). I find it infuriating, particularly the mangled language and the atrocious dialogs for configuration of basic stuff. I found the configuration of a WiFi connection on a friends Mac to be utterly absurd with it complaining about things that were perfectly valid and not saving profiles properly. Don't mistake me for a Windoze bigot either, I use Windoze for a lot of things for two reasons: 1. When you have a clue, Windoze is perfectly stable. Over five different systems, two of which run 24x7, I average one Windoze crash / problem every couple years. I have also never had a virus on any of these systems despite the fact they are on a cable modem connection full time. People who have problems with Windoze primarily bring it on themselves and will do the same regardless of the OS. I'd like to think myself a bit of a computer expert. I use Windows as well, and do not run anti-virus software and have never *knock*knock* had a virus, either. I run AV only on my main email / surfing machine and have it scan the other machines over the network. My main machine is a laptop running Linux, but I use a Mac on one side of it and a Windows box on the other depending on which one suits the job best. Unlike you, however, I do still see the occasional crash on Windows. I'd put it at more like three times per year at this point. That is *dramatically* down from previous versions of Windows (this is XP home that I keep updated) and I do consider it "decent." Most of my current machines are Win2Kpro with one XPpro machine. Even back in the Win95 days I had no problems with stability, in fact at that point where I worked we each had Win95 machines running the same apps and my machine would happily run for 45 days or more without any problems while others had crashes every few days. 2. Many pieces of software I use are only for, or run best on Windoze and they run without any problems whatsoever on my systems. In the Linux world there are open source substitutes for some of these programs, however they are inconsistent, are often missing important features and have essentially no support. Agreed. In some cases there is *no* equivalent on Linux or any other OS and not likely to be (like my Needhams ROM burner, my Garmin GPS, my Uniden radio scanner, etc). If you want a rock solid, secure and reliable OS you will not find it in Windoze, MacOS or Linux, you also will not find it for free. Err, I'd debate that statement. Linux is, IMHO, rock solid, secure, and reliable. It still isn't the right tool for every computing job, but it most assuredly is those three things. Linux is not by the wildest stretch of the imagination, rock solid, secure or reliable without a *lot* of effort configuring and tuning. It is capable of being those things, but "out of the box" is very far from them. VMS on the other hand is all three of those things "out of the box". Pete C. |
#33
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
According to Donnie Barnes :
On Mon, 02 Jan, Pete C. wrote: [ ... ] If you want a rock solid, secure and reliable OS you will not find it in Windoze, MacOS or Linux, you also will not find it for free. Err, I'd debate that statement. Linux is, IMHO, rock solid, secure, and reliable. It still isn't the right tool for every computing job, but it most assuredly is those three things. Various flavors of linux have various out-of-the-box security. Some are quite secure, some are rather open. My own favorite for security and stability is OpenBSD. Among other things, it runs DNS servers, sendmail, and web servers in "chroot jails", so if there is another security hole found in these, it severely limits the damage which can be done. Granted, the chroot jail for the web server requires a lot of work-arounds for some common CGI programs. And -- unlike Windows, anything which is likely to present even a theoretical vulnerability is turned *off* by default, and you have to figure out how to turn it on. In the process, you are expected to weigh the need for that service against the security implications of turning it on. As for the mention elsewhere in this thread about security problems with ftp, telnet, and some other services -- those are turned off by default (they were not designed for real security, back when the net was a much kinder and gentler place), and ssh is the preferred alternative. I've actually kicked sendmail off of the system, and replaced it with qmail, which I trust a lot more than I do sendmail. Qmail was *designed* with security in mind. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#34
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
Rain is low - lower than normal.
However - the Summer is when we get rain and green grass. On the West Coast it is winter for rain and green grass. So winter in the central plains means cold and dry and snow in northern areas. Some rain but not the high amount. Summer will bring more lush grass and thunderstorms with lighting. Oh - the vacuum cleaner - tornadoes. Martin Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH & Endowment Member NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder zadoc wrote: On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:32:56 GMT, "Pete C." wrote: [snip, see original] Don't you hate those annoying little distractions? I've got the potential threat of grass fires to contend with here in the Dallas area. Pete C. The fires in Texas and Oklahoma are even making the TV news in Sydney. As it is midwinter there, isn't this a bit unusual? Are people there starting to wonder about climatic changes and global warming? One wonders what midsummer will be like. Cheers, Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==---- http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---- |
#35
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:32:56 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote: Gunner wrote: On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 14:11:32 -0800, Tim Wescott wrote: Gunner wrote: Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... Installing a number of distros of Linux: Simply Mepis Knoppix Knottix Fedora Damned small Linux Beatrix When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account, modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems... I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits there. Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or whatever I was trying to open..but thats all I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays. I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a CopperMine clone. All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known to me..etc etc Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load, newsgroups bla bla bla.. Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again. Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the time. What the hell am I doing wrong??????? Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Did you ever get your question answered? Have you tried one of the Linux newsgroups? They often seem to be informative, with sorting. I'd ask the question there. One thing to note: just about any post seems to generate a flame war, so you'll have to sort through some rants to get to the useful information. Lots of suggestions..and Ill work on them later today. Im busy trying to repair my roof..of which a fair amount blew off in the the 70mph winds we had Sunday. Damnit Don't you hate those annoying little distractions? I've got the potential threat of grass fires to contend with here in the Dallas area. Pete C. More wind today..almost blew me off the roof. I did what I could..shrug Powers been off for about 12 hours so far today. Nice thing about being a practical survivalist...little things like that arent much of a problem...shrug Gunner Gunner "Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules. Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner |
#36
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
On Tue, 03 Jan, DoN. Nichols wrote:
Various flavors of linux have various out-of-the-box security. Some are quite secure, some are rather open. You're changing the argument, AFAIC. Linux is itself inherently secure because it *can* be secured quite well. Distributions, OTOH, are a mechanism by which it can be rendered insecure (or not, depending). Chosing your distribution of Linux can be just as important as the choice was to use Linux in the first place. My own favorite for security and stability is OpenBSD. Among other things, it runs DNS servers, sendmail, and web servers in "chroot jails", so if there is another security hole found in these, it severely limits the damage which can be done. Granted, the chroot jail for the web server requires a lot of work-arounds for some common CGI programs. And against some attacks can be utterly useless, which means to me that you really just have a false sense of security with them combined with the aggravation of having to make them work in every case, which is quite annoying. And -- unlike Windows, anything which is likely to present even a theoretical vulnerability is turned *off* by default, and you have to figure out how to turn it on. In the process, you are expected to weigh the need for that service against the security implications of turning it on. That is a great feature to have in a *distribution* of which you require the utmost in security, sure. As for the mention elsewhere in this thread about security problems with ftp, telnet, and some other services -- those are turned off by default (they were not designed for real security, back when the net was a much kinder and gentler place), and ssh is the preferred alternative. Those are turned off by default in most every Linux distribution as well. I've actually kicked sendmail off of the system, and replaced it with qmail, which I trust a lot more than I do sendmail. Qmail was *designed* with security in mind. Argh. Keep in mind that qmail isn't truly open source by most technically accepted definitions. If you are simply an end user you can certainly use it freely, so I'm being pedantic. The author and I share the same initials and have shared several, err, heated debates about his software. The confusion about our initials has caused me some grief, too, as he can be much more of a jerk than I am generally known for (I have my moments as well, but he seems to have many more) and people sometimes confuse me (on the internet) for him. So I probably have a bias. Note that there is a reason qmail isn't shipped with most Linux distributions, and it isn't technical merits. I used qmail back in the day when there were no other high performance options to run high volume mailing lists on x86 hardware well and it served that purpose. It was also terribly difficult to administer if a problem *did* arise and I was very thankful when other options surfaced. But if it works for you, great. --Donnie -- Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com 879. V. |
#37
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
Cydrome Leader wrote:
In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote: Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to run anything but windows? Umm, I've been running Linux systems here, where I have a web server and a mail server online 24/7. I have not had a successful hacking attack in over 2 years, but they try 20+ times a day. My (several) systems are often up for 60 - 90 days before a power outage hits them. I essentially have never had a real crash. Sometimes a particular software component gets confused, and I need to manually reset it. That happens maybe once or twice a year. I have never seen a software system as reliable as Linux, in 35 years working with computers. (DEC's VMS came pretty close.) Yes, there are a few things that still need work, and network configuration is one of the weak points. They expect you to be a network guru. I think I did get a regular modem working once, years ago, and it was a tricky bit of business to complete the auto login with the scripts, automatically. Jon |
#38
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
Jon Elson wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote: In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote: Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to run anything but windows? Umm, I've been running Linux systems here, where I have a web server and a mail server online 24/7. I have not had a successful hacking attack in over 2 years, but they try 20+ times a day. My (several) systems are often up for 60 - 90 days before a power outage hits them. I essentially have never had a real crash. Sometimes a particular software component gets confused, and I need to manually reset it. That happens maybe once or twice a year. I have never seen a software system as reliable as Linux, in 35 years working with computers. (DEC's VMS came pretty close.) Yes, there are a few things that still need work, and network configuration is one of the weak points. They expect you to be a network guru. I think I did get a regular modem working once, years ago, and it was a tricky bit of business to complete the auto login with the scripts, automatically. Jon I've had VMS systems with uptimes in excess of 800 days. Pete C. |
#39
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
"Pete C." wrote:
Jon Elson wrote: Cydrome Leader wrote: In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote: Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to run anything but windows? Umm, I've been running Linux systems here, where I have a web server and a mail server online 24/7. I have not had a successful hacking attack in over 2 years, but they try 20+ times a day. My (several) systems are often up for 60 - 90 days before a power outage hits them. I essentially have never had a real crash. Sometimes a particular software component gets confused, and I need to manually reset it. That happens maybe once or twice a year. I have never seen a software system as reliable as Linux, in 35 years working with computers. (DEC's VMS came pretty close.) Yes, there are a few things that still need work, and network configuration is one of the weak points. They expect you to be a network guru. I think I did get a regular modem working once, years ago, and it was a tricky bit of business to complete the auto login with the scripts, automatically. Jon I've had VMS systems with uptimes in excess of 800 days. Pete C. Looks like 254 days is the longest up time on any of the systems currently. Pete C. |
#40
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!
On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 01:20:13 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote: In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote: Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for months and months and ... well you get the idea. Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now... What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to run anything but windows? Umm, I've been running Linux systems here, where I have a web server and a mail server online 24/7. I have not had a successful hacking attack in over 2 years, but they try 20+ times a day. My (several) systems are often up for 60 - 90 days before a power outage hits them. I essentially have never had a real crash. Sometimes a particular software component gets confused, and I need to manually reset it. That happens maybe once or twice a year. I have never seen a software system as reliable as Linux, in 35 years working with computers. (DEC's VMS came pretty close.) Yes, there are a few things that still need work, and network configuration is one of the weak points. They expect you to be a network guru. I think I did get a regular modem working once, years ago, and it was a tricky bit of business to complete the auto login with the scripts, automatically. Jon Well..with the kind help of you good folks..I managed to bumble my way into getting this bitch online..but its still not right. If I closed etho0, it will allow me to go on line. The moment I start it..it cuts off the internet. This after inputting the proper dns numbers. Ive got some clues where to start looking..but this is still a whole new ball game to me. Many thanks so far G Gunner..posting via Pan |
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