Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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  #1   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...

Installing a number of distros of Linux:

Simply Mepis
Knoppix
Knottix
Fedora
Damned small Linux
Beatrix

When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account,
modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem

However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt
kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and
even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems...

I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc
etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit
on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits
there.

Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or
whatever I was trying to open..but thats all

I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received
box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit
window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays.

I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I
farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a
CopperMine clone.

All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known
to me..etc etc

Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another
Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy
settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load,
newsgroups bla bla bla..

Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for
about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a
server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again.

Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit
more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to
surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the
time.

What the hell am I doing wrong???????

Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
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Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
Zebee Johnstone
 
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Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

In rec.crafts.metalworking on Mon, 02 Jan 2006 10:02:57 GMT
Gunner wrote:

When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account,
modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem

However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt
kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and
even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems...

I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc
etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit
on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits
there.


First job - open a terminal (called xterm or root shell or terminal)
and do
more /etc/resolv.conf

you should see something like
[zebee@tasma tmp]$ more /etc/resolv.conf
nameserver 220.233.0.4
nameserver 220.233.0.3

there may be other things, but you should have at least one nameserver
line.

If you don't, then your ISP isn't feeding you a nameserver with your
PPP, it might be that your linux distros aren't asking for it. (I"ve
always put 'em in by hand, so can't help with getting it via PPP)

On your ISP's help page they should list things like the mail server
to use, check if they give you a nameserver. If they do, then become
root on your linux box and edit the /etc/resolv.conf file, adding a
line like above, using your ISPs nameserver address.

If there is a nameserver in the resolv.conf, then try pinging it.
given the nameservers above you'd do
[zebee@tasma tmp]$ ping 220.233.0.4
and get something like
[zebee@tasma tmp]$ ping 220.233.0.4
PING 220.233.0.4 (220.233.0.4) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 220.233.0.4: icmp_seq=0 ttl=61 time=16.6 ms

if you don't, then the nameserver IP is likely wrong, ring your ISP
and ask them to tell you the right one.

If you have a nameserver and it pings, then try this:
[zebee@tasma tmp]$ ping www.google.com
PING www.l.google.com (66.102.7.104) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 66.102.7.104: icmp_seq=0 ttl=244 time=184 ms

If it can't get an IP for google, then the nameserver is bad, ring the
ISP.

IF you can ping and resolve names, then it's a browser setup problem.
Check your proxies.

Zebee


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Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
 
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Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

What a sad tale of woe, Gunner :-(

I can say that 'cause I've been there.

Take a look at www.linmodems.org

These people are very helpful at analysing information from your
machine and explaining how to get set up.

BTW, I have found that a SmartLink, PCI modem with an SL1900 chipset
will operate Mepis very well on several different computers.

Hope this helps.

Lewis.

*****

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Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
Cydrome Leader
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote:
Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...


What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to
run anything but windows?



Installing a number of distros of Linux:

Simply Mepis
Knoppix
Knottix
Fedora
Damned small Linux
Beatrix

When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account,
modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem

However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt
kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and
even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems...

I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc
etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit
on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits
there.

Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or
whatever I was trying to open..but thats all

I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received
box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit
window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays.

I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I
farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a
CopperMine clone.

All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known
to me..etc etc

Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another
Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy
settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load,
newsgroups bla bla bla..

Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for
about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a
server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again.

Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit
more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to
surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the
time.

What the hell am I doing wrong???????

Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

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Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
Bruce Barnett
 
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Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

Gunner writes:

What the hell am I doing wrong???????


Type these commands.
ifconfig -a
netstat -nr


They tell us if your PPP link has an IP address, and if there is routing
set up for it.

Next - you have to try "ping" to send packets to someone on the same
network. See Zebee's post.

--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.


  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
 
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Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

In misc.survivalism Zebee Johnstone wrote:

If it can't get an IP for google, then the nameserver is bad, ring the
ISP.


IF you can ping and resolve names, then it's a browser setup problem.
Check your proxies.


Would it make sense to simply enter the IP address into the browser, (or
ping by IP) and see if it works, rather than use the diagnostic procedure
you outline above?

--
A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
--Edward R. Murrow
  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
 
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Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

Gunner wrote:

snip

Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or
whatever I was trying to open..but thats all

I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received
box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit
window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays.

I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I
farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a
CopperMine clone.

All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known
to me..etc etc

Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another
Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy

Aha! A Clue!

settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load,
newsgroups bla bla bla..

Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for
about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a
server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again.

Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit
more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to
surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the
time.

What the hell am I doing wrong???????


I feel your pain. I assume you've stepped through the _How to hook up
PPP_ document; you state that you get logged in. I finally dumped two
ISPs because they did *something* to their machines that broke my linux
setup that had worked for years. The NT weenies that worked there
couldn't tell me what happened, nor could they tell me what I had to do
to fix it ("we only support windows").

I was even in the main office of one ISP, complaining that I couldn't
get a PPP connection, I could only get a shell (which is *so* *wrong* it
isn't funny). AND THEY WERE ABLE TO DUPLICATE MY PROBLEM, AND DIDN'T
KNOW HOW TO FIX IT!

I finally came to the suspicion that someone had decided that the cure
for the insecurities of using M$ for an ISP server could be cured by
disabling tcp/ip and only allowing netbooey connections. This accounted
for all the facts, and pointed me to a fix.

Try another ISP, one that publicly supports linux. Worked for me.

later
co

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Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
Brent Philion
 
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Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

Have you tried cnnecting to a site by its pure IP address alone?

Sounds liek the DNS or defauly gateways are out to lunch

Gunner wrote:
Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...

Installing a number of distros of Linux:

Simply Mepis
Knoppix
Knottix
Fedora
Damned small Linux
Beatrix

When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account,
modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem

However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt
kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and
even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems...

I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc
etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit
on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits
there.

Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or
whatever I was trying to open..but thats all

I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received
box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit
window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays.

I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I
farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a
CopperMine clone.

All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known
to me..etc etc

Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another
Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy
settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load,
newsgroups bla bla bla..

Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for
about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a
server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again.

Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit
more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to
surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the
time.

What the hell am I doing wrong???????

Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

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Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
Joseph Gwinn
 
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Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

In article ,
Cydrome Leader wrote:

In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote:
Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...


What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to
run anything but windows?


Huh? Compared to MacOS, Windows is a notorious timewaster, so clearly
you will be switching to MacOS immediately?

Joe Gwinn


  #11   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Bill Schwab
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

Gunner wrote:
Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...

Installing a number of distros of Linux:

Simply Mepis
Knoppix
Knottix
Fedora
Damned small Linux
Beatrix

When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account,
modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem

However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt
kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and
even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems...

I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc
etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit
on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits
there.

Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or
whatever I was trying to open..but thats all

I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received
box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit
window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays.

I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I
farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a
CopperMine clone.

All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known
to me..etc etc

Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another
Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy
settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load,
newsgroups bla bla bla..

Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for
about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a
server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again.

Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit
more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to
surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the
time.

What the hell am I doing wrong???????


If I were not so blasted lazy, I would carefully read your description
and realize that this is over my head. However, it won't take long to
try what I have in mind, and it would isolate a common problem.

Connect, open a browser, hit stop until it responds to you, and then
type the following URL:

http://64.29.201.96

and click go or hit enter. If you see a page, your problem is almost
certainly the DNS configuration.

One caveat is that many servers operate multiple sites so that an IP
number alone is not sufficient to get their attention.

Bill
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the seventh sign
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

Gunner wrote:
Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...

Installing a number of distros of Linux:

Simply Mepis
Knoppix
Knottix
Fedora
Damned small Linux
Beatrix

When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account,
modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem

However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt
kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and
even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems...

I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc
etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit
on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits
there.

Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or
whatever I was trying to open..but thats all

I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received
box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit
window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays.

I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I
farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a
CopperMine clone.

All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known
to me..etc etc

Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another
Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy
settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load,
newsgroups bla bla bla..

Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for
about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a
server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again.

Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit
more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to
surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the
time.

What the hell am I doing wrong???????

Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner



Try using Kppp
then set up your ISP DNS server search orders
the ###.###.###.### numbers the ISP gave you
then set up your domain name ISP.com,net,org
make sure to have the use default gateway on remote net work checked.
Clear out the information you used to proxy to the winblows machine it
interferes with the DNS connections gateway should be 0.0.0.0.
be sure it default routes through the modem not the nic unless you have
a high speed connection then you just need to clear out the data you
used to proxy enter the ISP information and MAKE SURE the gateway is
0.0.0.0.

Some arrogant ISPs refuse to support Linux so you may run into
resistance but you could try to look it up at the ISP source.
AKA go to the ISP main page look up in their search engines for Linux
and hit return.

Try this out and let me know here.
TSS
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure.
The fearful are caught as often as the bold.
- Helen Keller
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  #13   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Bill Schwab
 
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Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

Cydrome Leader wrote:
In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote:

Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...



What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to
run anything but windows?


There are many reasons to avoid Microsoft. It can be as simple as
having and old computer to view drawings in a shop (no reason to pay
$100-200 for that simple task) to running servers where Linux is faster,
more stable, more secure, and less subject to the whim of a company that
churns the market at every opportunity and builds eye candy at the
expense of fixing defects and cleaning up their designs. Don't even get
me stated about what they did with the Pen Windows API in the late 90's
- in short, they had documented functions to be supported on Win32 for
all time, and then yanked them w/o warning. With the cross-posts to a
survivalism group, I can also assume that having the source code to the
OS is of interest, and I certainly won't argue with that.

Bill
  #14   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
Pete C.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

Joseph Gwinn wrote:

In article ,
Cydrome Leader wrote:

In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote:
Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...


What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to
run anything but windows?


Huh? Compared to MacOS, Windows is a notorious timewaster, so clearly
you will be switching to MacOS immediately?

Joe Gwinn


Only for the clueless. MacOS was total crap up until Apple finally
realized they lacked the expertise to write an OS and put their UI over
someone else's Unix core. Now instead of being a crappy UI on top of a
crappy OS, it's a crappy UI on top of a so-so OS.

Don't mistake me for a Windoze bigot either, I use Windoze for a lot of
things for two reasons:

1. When you have a clue, Windoze is perfectly stable. Over five
different systems, two of which run 24x7, I average one Windoze crash /
problem every couple years. I have also never had a virus on any of
these systems despite the fact they are on a cable modem connection full
time. People who have problems with Windoze primarily bring it on
themselves and will do the same regardless of the OS.

2. Many pieces of software I use are only for, or run best on Windoze
and they run without any problems whatsoever on my systems. In the Linux
world there are open source substitutes for some of these programs,
however they are inconsistent, are often missing important features and
have essentially no support.

If you want a rock solid, secure and reliable OS you will not find it in
Windoze, MacOS or Linux, you also will not find it for free.

Pete C.
  #15   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 12:33:00 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote:
Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...


What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to
run anything but windows?



Run Linux..which pretty much justifies trying to run something besides
Winblows.

But then..Ive been known to make my own parts, rather than go buy them
too.

Gunner


Installing a number of distros of Linux:

Simply Mepis
Knoppix
Knottix
Fedora
Damned small Linux
Beatrix

When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account,
modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem

However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt
kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and
even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems...

I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc
etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit
on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits
there.

Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or
whatever I was trying to open..but thats all

I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received
box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit
window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays.

I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I
farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a
CopperMine clone.

All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known
to me..etc etc

Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another
Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy
settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load,
newsgroups bla bla bla..

Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for
about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a
server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again.

Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit
more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to
surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the
time.

What the hell am I doing wrong???????

Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner


"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner


  #16   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Bill Schwab
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

Pete,

Only for the clueless. MacOS was total crap up until Apple finally
realized they lacked the expertise to write an OS and put their UI over
someone else's Unix core. Now instead of being a crappy UI on top of a
crappy OS, it's a crappy UI on top of a so-so OS.


I can't much comment on the Mac OS line, but what little I have seen of
their UI suggests that it is over simplified and too cute for its own
good, but also pretty damn good in its own way.


Don't mistake me for a Windoze bigot either, I use Windoze for a lot of
things for two reasons:

1. When you have a clue, Windoze is perfectly stable. Over five
different systems, two of which run 24x7, I average one Windoze crash /
problem every couple years. I have also never had a virus on any of
these systems despite the fact they are on a cable modem connection full
time.


I have had similar experience, but I attribute it in large part to
disregarding much of what Microsoft wants me to do. At this point, I
use Windows because my development environment of choice targets only
it. The list of enumerable benefits of Windows is shrinking, and the
list of reasons to leave is growing.


People who have problems with Windoze primarily bring it on
themselves and will do the same regardless of the OS.


Very true. However, as Microsoft becomes more forceful with their
activation systems and shortens their life cycles, there will be an
increase in problems forced by marketing vs. technology changes and
security constraints.


2. Many pieces of software I use are only for, or run best on Windoze
and they run without any problems whatsoever on my systems. In the Linux
world there are open source substitutes for some of these programs,
however they are inconsistent, are often missing important features and
have essentially no support.


Granted. However, I can say pretty much the same thing about much of
what Microsoft produces; it all depends on whether one is being
clobbered by a defect with high visbility.

Bill
  #17   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
Joseph Gwinn
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

In article ,
"Pete C." wrote:

Joseph Gwinn wrote:

In article ,
Cydrome Leader wrote:

In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote:
Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...

What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to
run anything but windows?


Huh? Compared to MacOS, Windows is a notorious timewaster, so clearly
you will be switching to MacOS immediately?

Joe Gwinn


Only for the clueless.


I made my living as an embedded realtime programmer for 20 or 30 years.

I use MacOS at home (where I'm the IT Department), and Windows plus UNIX
at work. MacOS is simply less trouble, by a lot.


MacOS was total crap up until Apple finally
realized they lacked the expertise to write an OS and put their UI over
someone else's Unix core. Now instead of being a crappy UI on top of a
crappy OS, it's a crappy UI on top of a so-so OS.

Don't mistake me for a Windoze bigot either, ...


Could have fooled me. Listen to yourself, listen to the music.


...I use Windoze for a lot of
things for two reasons:

1. When you have a clue, Windoze is perfectly stable. Over five
different systems, two of which run 24x7, I average one Windoze crash /
problem every couple years. I have also never had a virus on any of
these systems despite the fact they are on a cable modem connection full
time. People who have problems with Windoze primarily bring it on
themselves and will do the same regardless of the OS.


You are very fortunate. One wonders how long your luck will last. The
rest of the world must be pretty clueless, because they have all these
problems, in spades. and the computer mags are full of sad tales.

As for security problems, there are tens of thousands of viruses et al
for Windows, maybe ten for MacOS (none that still work), and essentially
zero for most flavors of UNIX.

Because MacOS is only for the clueless, it cannot be that the lack of
trouble on Macs is due to clued-in users. So there must be some other,
simpler explanation.


2. Many pieces of software I use are only for, or run best on Windoze
and they run without any problems whatsoever on my systems. In the Linux
world there are open source substitutes for some of these programs,
however they are inconsistent, are often missing important features and
have essentially no support.


I do have to run Windows to use some applications, but they are odd
ones, like FEMM. Not to mention many CAD-CAM apps, and the like.

Mainstream stuff is available on both MacOS and Windows, but less so on
Linux.

I agree that lots of Linux applications require some fiddling to use,
but this is due more to their being open-source versus commercial. With
the growth of Linux in the market, more commercial apps will support
Linux, so this advantage is likely to erode over time.


If you want a rock solid, secure and reliable OS you will not find it in
Windoze, MacOS or Linux, you also will not find it for free.


Well, I agree that it won't be free. It will cost time and/or money,
one way or the other.

MacOS is rock solid; this I know from direct personal experience.

The real reason for a metalworker to use Windows is that many of the
standard apps for metalworking and manufacturing are currently
Windows-only, but these are slowly picking up Linux support. I'm
planning to get a Dell PC at home for just this reason, but this PC will
be well-isolated from the Internet.

The App developers and their customers would dearly love to have an
alternative to Windows, to regain control of their lives, to escape the
Treadmill.

Joe Gwinn
  #18   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
daniel peterman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

Pete what is your electricity bill like and why do you need so many
computers?
Are you running a business or do you just like futzing with the things?

I know you guys are gonna laugh but I have been using webtv fo almost 10
years now. Never get a virus, no popups, access to almost any site I
need. I do have a modest pc when I want to scan something or do some
writing. I snagged a couple older Imac's yesterday. Once I get them
sorted out they will be given away.

  #19   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Dave August
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

Gawd I had to jump in here... I run both 'doze and 'nix...

'doze cause I'm a software developer and MANY clients require it....
'nix 'cause it IS a better DNS/Mail/Webserver

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...

[SNIP]

HMM Then I guess all those BIND exploits that root kitted 'nix were
fantasy...
Or the FTP exploits, or the telnet hacks, of the somewhat recently announced
PostGreSql exploit.. not to mention anyone stupid enough to run DSO on
anykind of machine exposed as a server... Yep all just must be fantasy...

As for security problems, there are tens of thousands of viruses et al
for Windows, maybe ten for MacOS (none that still work), and essentially
zero for most flavors of UNIX.


--.- Dave


  #20   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
Tim Wescott
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

Gunner wrote:

Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...

Installing a number of distros of Linux:

Simply Mepis
Knoppix
Knottix
Fedora
Damned small Linux
Beatrix

When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account,
modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem

However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt
kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and
even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems...

I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc
etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit
on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits
there.

Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or
whatever I was trying to open..but thats all

I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received
box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit
window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays.

I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I
farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a
CopperMine clone.

All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known
to me..etc etc

Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another
Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy
settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load,
newsgroups bla bla bla..

Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for
about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a
server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again.

Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit
more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to
surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the
time.

What the hell am I doing wrong???????

Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you ever get your question answered? Have you tried one of the
Linux newsgroups? They often seem to be informative, with sorting. I'd
ask the question there. One thing to note: just about any post seems
to generate a flame war, so you'll have to sort through some rants to
get to the useful information.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com


  #21   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
F. George McDuffee
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 18:15:21 GMT, Bill Schwab
wrote:
snip
less subject to the whim of a company that
churns the market at every opportunity and builds eye candy at the
expense of fixing defects and cleaning up their designs.

snip
Bill

=========================
No doubt directed by marketing alumni from Detroit's [former] big
three auto companies.

Just how do these people get to be in control of things?

Uncle George
  #22   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
F. George McDuffee
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

snip One thing to note: just about any post seems
to generate a flame war, so you'll have to sort through some rants to
get to the useful information.
snip

Sounds a lot like rec.crafts.metalworking and alt.machines.cnc.
He should be used to it.

Uncle George
  #23   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 16:12:56 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
"Pete C." wrote:

Joseph Gwinn wrote:

In article ,
Cydrome Leader wrote:

In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote:
Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...

What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to
run anything but windows?

Huh? Compared to MacOS, Windows is a notorious timewaster, so clearly
you will be switching to MacOS immediately?

Joe Gwinn


Only for the clueless.


I made my living as an embedded realtime programmer for 20 or 30 years.

I use MacOS at home (where I'm the IT Department), and Windows plus UNIX
at work. MacOS is simply less trouble, by a lot.


MacOS was total crap up until Apple finally
realized they lacked the expertise to write an OS and put their UI over
someone else's Unix core. Now instead of being a crappy UI on top of a
crappy OS, it's a crappy UI on top of a so-so OS.

Don't mistake me for a Windoze bigot either, ...


Could have fooled me. Listen to yourself, listen to the music.


...I use Windoze for a lot of
things for two reasons:

1. When you have a clue, Windoze is perfectly stable. Over five
different systems, two of which run 24x7, I average one Windoze crash /
problem every couple years. I have also never had a virus on any of
these systems despite the fact they are on a cable modem connection full
time. People who have problems with Windoze primarily bring it on
themselves and will do the same regardless of the OS.


You are very fortunate. One wonders how long your luck will last. The
rest of the world must be pretty clueless, because they have all these
problems, in spades. and the computer mags are full of sad tales.

As for security problems, there are tens of thousands of viruses et al
for Windows, maybe ten for MacOS (none that still work), and essentially
zero for most flavors of UNIX.

Because MacOS is only for the clueless, it cannot be that the lack of
trouble on Macs is due to clued-in users. So there must be some other,
simpler explanation.


2. Many pieces of software I use are only for, or run best on Windoze
and they run without any problems whatsoever on my systems. In the Linux
world there are open source substitutes for some of these programs,
however they are inconsistent, are often missing important features and
have essentially no support.


I do have to run Windows to use some applications, but they are odd
ones, like FEMM. Not to mention many CAD-CAM apps, and the like.

Mainstream stuff is available on both MacOS and Windows, but less so on
Linux.

I agree that lots of Linux applications require some fiddling to use,
but this is due more to their being open-source versus commercial. With
the growth of Linux in the market, more commercial apps will support
Linux, so this advantage is likely to erode over time.


If you want a rock solid, secure and reliable OS you will not find it in
Windoze, MacOS or Linux, you also will not find it for free.


Well, I agree that it won't be free. It will cost time and/or money,
one way or the other.

MacOS is rock solid; this I know from direct personal experience.

The real reason for a metalworker to use Windows is that many of the
standard apps for metalworking and manufacturing are currently
Windows-only, but these are slowly picking up Linux support. I'm
planning to get a Dell PC at home for just this reason, but this PC will
be well-isolated from the Internet.

The App developers and their customers would dearly love to have an
alternative to Windows, to regain control of their lives, to escape the
Treadmill.

Joe Gwinn


http://www.megagames.com/news/html/p...martdeal.shtml
http://www.knowledgeproblem.com/archives/000537.html
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...,502196,00.asp

Wal-Mart, Microtel Ship $199 Lindows PC
By Mark Hachman

Lindows.com and Wal-Mart.com have teamed up again, making a $199 PC
available to the discount chain's online customers, and a Windows
option available to those willing to pay a $100 premium.

Lindows chief executive Michael Robertson had written that the company
expected to sign a deal creating a $199 PC at about the end of last
week.
ADVERTISEMENT

Unlike the other Microtel PCs sold by Wal-Mart, however, the new
Microtel SYSMAR710 model includes a 800-MHz Via C3 processor,
disdaining chips from AMD or Intel. In addition, according to Via,
Wal-Mart will sell a similar SYSMAR715 PC, also based on the Lindows
OS, which will be priced at $218. But while the SYSMAR710 can be
purchased on the Wal-Mart website, the SYSMAR715 does not seem to be
available. Representatives at Wal-Mart.com were unable to be contacted
due to the Labor Day weekend in the U.S.

"Via is a company that delivers high quality technology solutions,
providing satisfaction and affordability to our customers," said Rich
Hindman, vice president of Microtel, in a statement. "The Microtel
LindowsOS SYSMAR710 system is a new benchmark in performance and
usability for mainstream PC buyers."

The new $199 PC lacks a monitor, but includes most of the basics
needed for a low-end PC: 128 Mbytes of RAM, a 10-Gbyte hard drive,
integrated Trident 2D/3D graphics, a 52X CD-ROM, and integrated sound.
A pair of USB ports are included, as well as two PCI slots and an ISA
slot.
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
  #24   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 14:11:32 -0800, Tim Wescott
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...

Installing a number of distros of Linux:

Simply Mepis
Knoppix
Knottix
Fedora
Damned small Linux
Beatrix

When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account,
modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem

However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt
kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and
even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems...

I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc
etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit
on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits
there.

Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or
whatever I was trying to open..but thats all

I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received
box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit
window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays.

I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I
farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a
CopperMine clone.

All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known
to me..etc etc

Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another
Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy
settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load,
newsgroups bla bla bla..

Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for
about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a
server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again.

Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit
more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to
surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the
time.

What the hell am I doing wrong???????

Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you ever get your question answered? Have you tried one of the
Linux newsgroups? They often seem to be informative, with sorting. I'd
ask the question there. One thing to note: just about any post seems
to generate a flame war, so you'll have to sort through some rants to
get to the useful information.


Lots of suggestions..and Ill work on them later today. Im busy trying
to repair my roof..of which a fair amount blew off in the the 70mph
winds we had Sunday. Damnit

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
  #26   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
Pete C.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

Joseph Gwinn wrote:

In article ,
"Pete C." wrote:

Joseph Gwinn wrote:

In article ,
Cydrome Leader wrote:

In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote:
Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...

What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to
run anything but windows?

Huh? Compared to MacOS, Windows is a notorious timewaster, so clearly
you will be switching to MacOS immediately?

Joe Gwinn


Only for the clueless.


I made my living as an embedded realtime programmer for 20 or 30 years.

I use MacOS at home (where I'm the IT Department), and Windows plus UNIX
at work. MacOS is simply less trouble, by a lot.


I must say that I have little hands-on experience with MacOS as I find
the UI infuriating. I do however have several friends that use Macs to
varying degrees and all have had plenty of problems. One friend is a
teacher who uses both Macs and PCs extensively and reports that the Macs
crash at least as often as the PCs. Another friend uses Macs almost
exclusively and in 5 years and like three Macs she had a ratio of about
20:1 to the Windoze problems I had during that time. I did not see any
decrease in the frequency of problems with the switch to OSX either.


MacOS was total crap up until Apple finally
realized they lacked the expertise to write an OS and put their UI over
someone else's Unix core. Now instead of being a crappy UI on top of a
crappy OS, it's a crappy UI on top of a so-so OS.

Don't mistake me for a Windoze bigot either, ...


Could have fooled me. Listen to yourself, listen to the music.


How do you figure that? Anyone with any technical knowledge knows that
the pre OSX versions of MacOS were hopelessly deficient in many areas,
particularly the lack of memory management. OSX fixed many of the core
problems, but the UI that I can't stand (I hated the UI on the first
Lisa as well) remains. If I wanted an alternative to Windoze it
certainly would not be Mac as there is simply no advantage whatsoever to
MacOS over Linux or another Unix variant.


...I use Windoze for a lot of
things for two reasons:

1. When you have a clue, Windoze is perfectly stable. Over five
different systems, two of which run 24x7, I average one Windoze crash /
problem every couple years. I have also never had a virus on any of
these systems despite the fact they are on a cable modem connection full
time. People who have problems with Windoze primarily bring it on
themselves and will do the same regardless of the OS.


You are very fortunate. One wonders how long your luck will last. The
rest of the world must be pretty clueless, because they have all these
problems, in spades. and the computer mags are full of sad tales.


My "luck" has lasted for at least 15 years and I expect it will last a
lot longer. It does appear that the world at large is rather clueless as
it seems that they happily download the latest Napster variant or other
program from questionable sources and then wonder why they have
problems.

My machines that have essentially no problems are devoid of the Napsters
and their ilk. My machines have such things as TurboCAD, Mach3, WinIVR,
MPLAB, Deskengrave, Photoshop Elements, P-Touch utilities, WinZip and
the usual assortment of odds and ends like MS office, Netscape, etc. You
will note a lack of any "questionable" software.


As for security problems, there are tens of thousands of viruses et al
for Windows, maybe ten for MacOS (none that still work), and essentially
zero for most flavors of UNIX.


There are many, many security problems that affect most flavors of Unix.
If you want a secure OS, look at VMS or the Tandem and Stratus OSs.


Because MacOS is only for the clueless, it cannot be that the lack of
trouble on Macs is due to clued-in users. So there must be some other,
simpler explanation.


I have not seen this purported lack of trouble on Macs. Every single Mac
user I have known (dozens) has reported plenty of problems.


2. Many pieces of software I use are only for, or run best on Windoze
and they run without any problems whatsoever on my systems. In the Linux
world there are open source substitutes for some of these programs,
however they are inconsistent, are often missing important features and
have essentially no support.


I do have to run Windows to use some applications, but they are odd
ones, like FEMM. Not to mention many CAD-CAM apps, and the like.


CAD, CNC, IVR, development utilities for microcontrollers, etc.


Mainstream stuff is available on both MacOS and Windows, but less so on
Linux.


Exactly.


I agree that lots of Linux applications require some fiddling to use,
but this is due more to their being open-source versus commercial.


Open source is the source of some of it's own problems. One of the
largest problems in this area is the lack of consistency in UI structure
and documentation.

With
the growth of Linux in the market, more commercial apps will support
Linux, so this advantage is likely to erode over time.


The upcoming homogenization of the hardware market will help this a lot.
The switch to OSX was one step towards Apple getting out of the hardware
business which they have never been very good at. Now they have
announced they are abandoning IBM's antiquated CPUs.

In the near future you will simply select a generic hardware platform
from the vendor of your choice and in the size / expandability / fault
tolerance for your application, and then select your favorite OS to run
on it from a field of dozens of variants that all run on the same
hardware platform.


If you want a rock solid, secure and reliable OS you will not find it in
Windoze, MacOS or Linux, you also will not find it for free.


Well, I agree that it won't be free. It will cost time and/or money,
one way or the other.


There are several out there, but they are in the "midrange" and
"mainframe" space and none are cheap. At least one (VMS) is now running
on three different hardware platforms including Itanium.


MacOS is rock solid; this I know from direct personal experience.


Well, from indirect personal experience, my Mac using friend reports
problems on a weekly basis for one machine while my five Windoze
machines keep chugging along happily. I expect that with OSX (and
beyond) MacOS has the *potential* to be rock solid, just as Windoze
does, but it seems the ultimate determinant of stability is the
operator.


The real reason for a metalworker to use Windows is that many of the
standard apps for metalworking and manufacturing are currently
Windows-only, but these are slowly picking up Linux support. I'm
planning to get a Dell PC at home for just this reason, but this PC will
be well-isolated from the Internet.


I got a stack of surplus Dell Optiplex systems for $100 ea and they are
great for quite a few things including CNC control. All my systems are
on a common network and have no problems. The firewall / router provides
a first line of defense and the only machine that has any inbound ports
mapped to it has a software firewall as well.


The App developers and their customers would dearly love to have an
alternative to Windows, to regain control of their lives, to escape the
Treadmill.


That seems to depend on the app developer. It seems there are a large
number of folks out there pretending to be programmers by gluing
together (poorly) various chunks of purchased code libraries for Windoze
to create hopelessly bloated, unstable and inefficient monstrosities and
calling them applications.

Pete C.
  #27   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Pete C.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

daniel peterman wrote:

Pete what is your electricity bill like and why do you need so many
computers?
Are you running a business or do you just like futzing with the things?

I know you guys are gonna laugh but I have been using webtv fo almost 10
years now. Never get a virus, no popups, access to almost any site I
need. I do have a modest pc when I want to scan something or do some
writing. I snagged a couple older Imac's yesterday. Once I get them
sorted out they will be given away.


My electric bill is fairly high, but not from the computers, rather from
electric heat and A/C and that big honkin' welder in the shop.

The various computers serve different purposes.

One is a laptop from work (I work from home)
Another is my personal laptop where I do most of my email and surfing
Another is my "central server" that serves as web server, central
network storage and IVR server
Another is my CAD/graphics PC with dual monitors, flatbed scanner and
graphics tablet
Another is my CNC controller / shop PC out in the detached shop
Another is for my electronics bench (whenever it isn't buried) for
microcontroller development and programming

The two laptops and the central server are on 24x7, the others are on
when I need them.

Pete C.
  #28   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
Pete C.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

Gunner wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 14:11:32 -0800, Tim Wescott
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...

Installing a number of distros of Linux:

Simply Mepis
Knoppix
Knottix
Fedora
Damned small Linux
Beatrix

When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account,
modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem

However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt
kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and
even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems...

I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc
etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit
on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits
there.

Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or
whatever I was trying to open..but thats all

I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received
box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit
window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays.

I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I
farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a
CopperMine clone.

All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known
to me..etc etc

Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another
Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy
settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load,
newsgroups bla bla bla..

Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for
about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a
server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again.

Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit
more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to
surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the
time.

What the hell am I doing wrong???????

Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you ever get your question answered? Have you tried one of the
Linux newsgroups? They often seem to be informative, with sorting. I'd
ask the question there. One thing to note: just about any post seems
to generate a flame war, so you'll have to sort through some rants to
get to the useful information.


Lots of suggestions..and Ill work on them later today. Im busy trying
to repair my roof..of which a fair amount blew off in the the 70mph
winds we had Sunday. Damnit


Don't you hate those annoying little distractions? I've got the
potential threat of grass fires to contend with here in the Dallas area.

Pete C.



Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

  #29   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
Pete C.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

zadoc wrote:

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:32:56 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

[snip, see original]

Don't you hate those annoying little distractions? I've got the
potential threat of grass fires to contend with here in the Dallas area.

Pete C.


The fires in Texas and Oklahoma are even making the TV news in Sydney.
As it is midwinter there, isn't this a bit unusual?

Are people there starting to wonder about climatic changes and global
warming?

One wonders what midsummer will be like.

Cheers,


Dunno, it's apparently a bit warmer than normal. I bailed out of the
frozen northeast to come down here and I'm loving the weather. It's 57
at the moment, was near 70 today, and I just talked to my mother in CT
where it's 33 and snowing heavily. This past summer had a few 104 degree
days, but the humidity was like 20% so as long as you were in the shade
it was just fine.

Pete C.
  #30   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Donnie Barnes
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

On Mon, 02 Jan, Pete C. wrote:
Only for the clueless. MacOS was total crap up until Apple finally
realized they lacked the expertise to write an OS and put their UI over
someone else's Unix core. Now instead of being a crappy UI on top of a
crappy OS, it's a crappy UI on top of a so-so OS.


I wouldn't characterize it as crappy. I would say it's still somewhat
incomplete as compared to Windows (the UI, that is).

Don't mistake me for a Windoze bigot either, I use Windoze for a lot of
things for two reasons:

1. When you have a clue, Windoze is perfectly stable. Over five
different systems, two of which run 24x7, I average one Windoze crash /
problem every couple years. I have also never had a virus on any of
these systems despite the fact they are on a cable modem connection full
time. People who have problems with Windoze primarily bring it on
themselves and will do the same regardless of the OS.


I'd like to think myself a bit of a computer expert. I use Windows as
well, and do not run anti-virus software and have never *knock*knock* had a
virus, either. My main machine is a laptop running Linux, but I use a Mac
on one side of it and a Windows box on the other depending on which one
suits the job best. Unlike you, however, I do still see the occasional
crash on Windows. I'd put it at more like three times per year at this
point. That is *dramatically* down from previous versions of Windows (this
is XP home that I keep updated) and I do consider it "decent."

2. Many pieces of software I use are only for, or run best on Windoze
and they run without any problems whatsoever on my systems. In the Linux
world there are open source substitutes for some of these programs,
however they are inconsistent, are often missing important features and
have essentially no support.


Agreed. In some cases there is *no* equivalent on Linux or any other OS
and not likely to be (like my Needhams ROM burner, my Garmin GPS, my Uniden
radio scanner, etc).

If you want a rock solid, secure and reliable OS you will not find it in
Windoze, MacOS or Linux, you also will not find it for free.


Err, I'd debate that statement. Linux is, IMHO, rock solid, secure, and
reliable. It still isn't the right tool for every computing job, but it
most assuredly is those three things.


--Donnie

--
Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com 879. V.


  #31   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
daniel peterman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

I figgered you wuz gonna say something like that. .
To Gunner
You can store any amount of stuff you want on webtv by simply mailing
the stuff to yourself.
It's all held in the huge mainframe they run which of course is being
watched by the NSA and various other bootleg agencies.
Great for surfing, kinda slow for ebay great for craigslist. 27" monitor
cost me 30 bucks. Unit cost me ten bux. No mouse. I likes it

  #32   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Pete C.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

Donnie Barnes wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jan, Pete C. wrote:
Only for the clueless. MacOS was total crap up until Apple finally
realized they lacked the expertise to write an OS and put their UI over
someone else's Unix core. Now instead of being a crappy UI on top of a
crappy OS, it's a crappy UI on top of a so-so OS.


I wouldn't characterize it as crappy. I would say it's still somewhat
incomplete as compared to Windows (the UI, that is).


I find it infuriating, particularly the mangled language and the
atrocious dialogs for configuration of basic stuff. I found the
configuration of a WiFi connection on a friends Mac to be utterly absurd
with it complaining about things that were perfectly valid and not
saving profiles properly.


Don't mistake me for a Windoze bigot either, I use Windoze for a lot of
things for two reasons:

1. When you have a clue, Windoze is perfectly stable. Over five
different systems, two of which run 24x7, I average one Windoze crash /
problem every couple years. I have also never had a virus on any of
these systems despite the fact they are on a cable modem connection full
time. People who have problems with Windoze primarily bring it on
themselves and will do the same regardless of the OS.


I'd like to think myself a bit of a computer expert. I use Windows as
well, and do not run anti-virus software and have never *knock*knock* had a
virus, either.


I run AV only on my main email / surfing machine and have it scan the
other machines over the network.

My main machine is a laptop running Linux, but I use a Mac
on one side of it and a Windows box on the other depending on which one
suits the job best. Unlike you, however, I do still see the occasional
crash on Windows. I'd put it at more like three times per year at this
point. That is *dramatically* down from previous versions of Windows (this
is XP home that I keep updated) and I do consider it "decent."


Most of my current machines are Win2Kpro with one XPpro machine. Even
back in the Win95 days I had no problems with stability, in fact at that
point where I worked we each had Win95 machines running the same apps
and my machine would happily run for 45 days or more without any
problems while others had crashes every few days.


2. Many pieces of software I use are only for, or run best on Windoze
and they run without any problems whatsoever on my systems. In the Linux
world there are open source substitutes for some of these programs,
however they are inconsistent, are often missing important features and
have essentially no support.


Agreed. In some cases there is *no* equivalent on Linux or any other OS
and not likely to be (like my Needhams ROM burner, my Garmin GPS, my Uniden
radio scanner, etc).

If you want a rock solid, secure and reliable OS you will not find it in
Windoze, MacOS or Linux, you also will not find it for free.


Err, I'd debate that statement. Linux is, IMHO, rock solid, secure, and
reliable. It still isn't the right tool for every computing job, but it
most assuredly is those three things.


Linux is not by the wildest stretch of the imagination, rock solid,
secure or reliable without a *lot* of effort configuring and tuning. It
is capable of being those things, but "out of the box" is very far from
them. VMS on the other hand is all three of those things "out of the
box".

Pete C.
  #33   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
DoN. Nichols
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

According to Donnie Barnes :
On Mon, 02 Jan, Pete C. wrote:


[ ... ]

If you want a rock solid, secure and reliable OS you will not find it in
Windoze, MacOS or Linux, you also will not find it for free.


Err, I'd debate that statement. Linux is, IMHO, rock solid, secure, and
reliable. It still isn't the right tool for every computing job, but it
most assuredly is those three things.


Various flavors of linux have various out-of-the-box security.
Some are quite secure, some are rather open.

My own favorite for security and stability is OpenBSD. Among
other things, it runs DNS servers, sendmail, and web servers in "chroot
jails", so if there is another security hole found in these, it severely
limits the damage which can be done.

Granted, the chroot jail for the web server requires a lot of
work-arounds for some common CGI programs.

And -- unlike Windows, anything which is likely to present even a
theoretical vulnerability is turned *off* by default, and you have to
figure out how to turn it on. In the process, you are expected to weigh
the need for that service against the security implications of turning
it on.

As for the mention elsewhere in this thread about security
problems with ftp, telnet, and some other services -- those are turned
off by default (they were not designed for real security, back when the
net was a much kinder and gentler place), and ssh is the preferred
alternative.

I've actually kicked sendmail off of the system, and replaced it
with qmail, which I trust a lot more than I do sendmail. Qmail was
*designed* with security in mind.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
  #34   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
Martin H. Eastburn
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

Rain is low - lower than normal.

However - the Summer is when we get rain and green grass. On the West Coast it is winter
for rain and green grass.

So winter in the central plains means cold and dry and snow in northern areas.
Some rain but not the high amount.

Summer will bring more lush grass and thunderstorms with lighting.
Oh - the vacuum cleaner - tornadoes.

Martin

Martin Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
NRA LOH & Endowment Member
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder



zadoc wrote:
On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:32:56 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

[snip, see original]


Don't you hate those annoying little distractions? I've got the
potential threat of grass fires to contend with here in the Dallas area.

Pete C.



The fires in Texas and Oklahoma are even making the TV news in Sydney.
As it is midwinter there, isn't this a bit unusual?

Are people there starting to wonder about climatic changes and global
warming?

One wonders what midsummer will be like.

Cheers,





Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner




----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
  #35   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking,misc.survivalism
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 00:32:56 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 14:11:32 -0800, Tim Wescott
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...

Installing a number of distros of Linux:

Simply Mepis
Knoppix
Knottix
Fedora
Damned small Linux
Beatrix

When configureing PPP for dialup..its simple..set up your account,
modem, comm port..do a query...let it check..ok..no problem

However..in each and every one of those distros..using 3 differnt
kinds of USR external modems, A Supra 56 external, a Speed modem and
even 2 differnt kinds of internal ISA and PCI modems...

I can dial out. The ISP connects, I get the proper password etc
etc..it says Ive connected at x speed, all the proper lights are lit
on the modem(s), I open my browsers (4)...and it just ****ing sits
there.

Eventually it times out and says Unable to connect to bla bla.com or
whatever I was trying to open..but thats all

I open the details window of the PPP prog...and in the Received
box..it (received) incriments higer every so often..but the transmit
window..normally shows it stalled at 148 packets. And there she stays.

I was thinking this was something unique to my box...but today, I
farted around with two completly different boxes..a Compaq 700, and a
CopperMine clone.

All do the same thing. Ive tried every browser configureation known
to me..etc etc

Every thing works just hunky dorey if I set up a proxy on another
Winblows machine, set the Linux browsers to the proper proxy
settings..then I can go whereever I want. Upload, down load,
newsgroups bla bla bla..

Ive run off of cds, done full hd installs..the freaking works... for
about 7 months now off and on. Id get ****ed, and use it for a
server..then curiosity gets me by the shorthairs..and I try again.

Sometimes..I do notice the activity light on the switch blinking a bit
more often than normal when Im trying to connect. Like its trying to
surf the local network rather than the internet..but not alll the
time.

What the hell am I doing wrong???????

Mommy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you ever get your question answered? Have you tried one of the
Linux newsgroups? They often seem to be informative, with sorting. I'd
ask the question there. One thing to note: just about any post seems
to generate a flame war, so you'll have to sort through some rants to
get to the useful information.


Lots of suggestions..and Ill work on them later today. Im busy trying
to repair my roof..of which a fair amount blew off in the the 70mph
winds we had Sunday. Damnit


Don't you hate those annoying little distractions? I've got the
potential threat of grass fires to contend with here in the Dallas area.

Pete C.

More wind today..almost blew me off the roof. I did what I
could..shrug

Powers been off for about 12 hours so far today.

Nice thing about being a practical survivalist...little things like
that arent much of a problem...shrug

Gunner



Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner




  #36   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Donnie Barnes
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

On Tue, 03 Jan, DoN. Nichols wrote:
Various flavors of linux have various out-of-the-box security.
Some are quite secure, some are rather open.


You're changing the argument, AFAIC. Linux is itself inherently secure
because it *can* be secured quite well. Distributions, OTOH, are a
mechanism by which it can be rendered insecure (or not, depending).
Chosing your distribution of Linux can be just as important as the choice
was to use Linux in the first place.

My own favorite for security and stability is OpenBSD. Among
other things, it runs DNS servers, sendmail, and web servers in "chroot
jails", so if there is another security hole found in these, it severely
limits the damage which can be done.

Granted, the chroot jail for the web server requires a lot of
work-arounds for some common CGI programs.


And against some attacks can be utterly useless, which means to me that you
really just have a false sense of security with them combined with the
aggravation of having to make them work in every case, which is quite
annoying.

And -- unlike Windows, anything which is likely to present even a
theoretical vulnerability is turned *off* by default, and you have to
figure out how to turn it on. In the process, you are expected to weigh
the need for that service against the security implications of turning
it on.


That is a great feature to have in a *distribution* of which you require
the utmost in security, sure.

As for the mention elsewhere in this thread about security
problems with ftp, telnet, and some other services -- those are turned
off by default (they were not designed for real security, back when the
net was a much kinder and gentler place), and ssh is the preferred
alternative.


Those are turned off by default in most every Linux distribution as well.

I've actually kicked sendmail off of the system, and replaced it
with qmail, which I trust a lot more than I do sendmail. Qmail was
*designed* with security in mind.


Argh. Keep in mind that qmail isn't truly open source by most technically
accepted definitions. If you are simply an end user you can certainly use
it freely, so I'm being pedantic. The author and I share the same initials
and have shared several, err, heated debates about his software. The
confusion about our initials has caused me some grief, too, as he can be
much more of a jerk than I am generally known for (I have my moments as
well, but he seems to have many more) and people sometimes confuse me (on
the internet) for him. So I probably have a bias. Note that there is a
reason qmail isn't shipped with most Linux distributions, and it isn't
technical merits.

I used qmail back in the day when there were no other high performance
options to run high volume mailing lists on x86 hardware well and it served
that purpose. It was also terribly difficult to administer if a problem
*did* arise and I was very thankful when other options surfaced. But if it
works for you, great.


--Donnie

--
Donnie Barnes http://www.donniebarnes.com 879. V.
  #37   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Jon Elson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

Cydrome Leader wrote:
In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote:

Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...



What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to
run anything but windows?

Umm, I've been running Linux systems here, where I have a web server
and a mail server online 24/7. I have not had a successful hacking
attack in over 2 years, but they try 20+ times a day. My (several)
systems are often up for 60 - 90 days before a power outage hits them.
I essentially have never had a real crash. Sometimes a particular
software component gets confused, and I need to manually reset it.
That happens maybe once or twice a year. I have never seen a
software system as reliable as Linux, in 35 years working with
computers. (DEC's VMS came pretty close.)

Yes, there are a few things that still need work, and network
configuration is one of the weak points. They expect you to be
a network guru. I think I did get a regular modem working once,
years ago, and it was a tricky bit of business to complete the
auto login with the scripts, automatically.

Jon

  #38   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Pete C.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

Jon Elson wrote:

Cydrome Leader wrote:
In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote:

Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...



What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to
run anything but windows?

Umm, I've been running Linux systems here, where I have a web server
and a mail server online 24/7. I have not had a successful hacking
attack in over 2 years, but they try 20+ times a day. My (several)
systems are often up for 60 - 90 days before a power outage hits them.
I essentially have never had a real crash. Sometimes a particular
software component gets confused, and I need to manually reset it.
That happens maybe once or twice a year. I have never seen a
software system as reliable as Linux, in 35 years working with
computers. (DEC's VMS came pretty close.)

Yes, there are a few things that still need work, and network
configuration is one of the weak points. They expect you to be
a network guru. I think I did get a regular modem working once,
years ago, and it was a tricky bit of business to complete the
auto login with the scripts, automatically.

Jon


I've had VMS systems with uptimes in excess of 800 days.

Pete C.
  #39   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Pete C.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

"Pete C." wrote:

Jon Elson wrote:

Cydrome Leader wrote:
In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote:

Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...


What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to
run anything but windows?

Umm, I've been running Linux systems here, where I have a web server
and a mail server online 24/7. I have not had a successful hacking
attack in over 2 years, but they try 20+ times a day. My (several)
systems are often up for 60 - 90 days before a power outage hits them.
I essentially have never had a real crash. Sometimes a particular
software component gets confused, and I need to manually reset it.
That happens maybe once or twice a year. I have never seen a
software system as reliable as Linux, in 35 years working with
computers. (DEC's VMS came pretty close.)

Yes, there are a few things that still need work, and network
configuration is one of the weak points. They expect you to be
a network guru. I think I did get a regular modem working once,
years ago, and it was a tricky bit of business to complete the
auto login with the scripts, automatically.

Jon


I've had VMS systems with uptimes in excess of 800 days.

Pete C.


Looks like 254 days is the longest up time on any of the systems
currently.

Pete C.
  #40   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
Gunner
 
Posts: n/a
Default Linux is Driving me $#@!!!! nutz!!!

On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 01:20:13 -0600, Jon Elson wrote:

Cydrome Leader wrote:
In rec.crafts.metalworking Gunner wrote:

Ok..for all you Linux junkies...this has been driving me nuts for
months and months and ... well you get the idea.
Originally..I thought this issue was hardware....but now...



What are you trying to do that justifies all the time wasted on trying to
run anything but windows?

Umm, I've been running Linux systems here, where I have a web server
and a mail server online 24/7. I have not had a successful hacking
attack in over 2 years, but they try 20+ times a day. My (several)
systems are often up for 60 - 90 days before a power outage hits them.
I essentially have never had a real crash. Sometimes a particular
software component gets confused, and I need to manually reset it.
That happens maybe once or twice a year. I have never seen a
software system as reliable as Linux, in 35 years working with
computers. (DEC's VMS came pretty close.)

Yes, there are a few things that still need work, and network
configuration is one of the weak points. They expect you to be
a network guru. I think I did get a regular modem working once,
years ago, and it was a tricky bit of business to complete the
auto login with the scripts, automatically.

Jon


Well..with the kind help of you good folks..I managed to bumble my way
into getting this bitch online..but its still not right. If I closed
etho0, it will allow me to go on line. The moment I start it..it cuts off
the internet. This after inputting the proper dns numbers. Ive got some
clues where to start looking..but this is still a whole new ball game to
me.
Many thanks so far G

Gunner..posting via Pan


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