I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines someone
starting out should consider? I want to make parts for automotive,
motorcycle and gunsmithing use. I'm not talking about engine boring
here, just bushings clamps, brackets. I see a lot of Chinese machines at
Grizzly, Harbor Freight and Jet are they worth it? Thanks

Fred

Think about the used market. You'll find better iron for the buck and there
is a HUGE glut of machines since actually producing things in this country
is so politically incorrect.


"F. Hayek" wrote in message
...
I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines someone
starting out should consider? I want to make parts for automotive,
motorcycle and gunsmithing use. I'm not talking about engine boring
here, just bushings clamps, brackets. I see a lot of Chinese machines at
Grizzly, Harbor Freight and Jet are they worth it? Thanks

Fred

In article ,
"Tom Gardner" wrote:

Think about the used market. You'll find better iron for the buck and there
is a HUGE glut of machines since actually producing things in this country
is so politically incorrect.


Tom's observation about the politics of being a producer in this crazy
world is spot-on. However, I still have much to learn about machine
tools for the automotive and gunsmithing hobbyist. Hows about some
advice on brands and types of machines? Just a basic lathe and milling
machine to start with. Size? I'm not sure. I'd like something bigger
than a "mini-lathe", but, not something too big to get down the basement
stairs. Gear drive or belt? Got me. What's the real difference? Maybe
I need to be pointed to some kind of FAQ for machining newbies. I'm
open to any help.

Fred



"F. Hayek" wrote in message
...
I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines someone
starting out should consider? I want to make parts for automotive,
motorcycle and gunsmithing use. I'm not talking about engine boring
here, just bushings clamps, brackets. I see a lot of Chinese machines at
Grizzly, Harbor Freight and Jet are they worth it? Thanks

Fred

F. Hayek scribed in freeagent
:

crazy world is spot-on. However, I still have much to learn about
machine tools for the automotive and gunsmithing hobbyist. Hows
about some advice on brands and types of machines? Just a basic

from what I've read here, the Jet lathes tend to be better than other
brands (I don't live on your continent, and have a Myford lathe, so
cannot really knww these answers. ymmv etc etc)

lathe and milling machine to start with. Size? I'm not sure. I'd

9x20? for automotive you'll probably be happier with a 12x or 14x
(that's 12 or 14 inch diameter workpiece capacity), because at some
point you'll want to face a brake drum or clutch plate (-:

for gunsmithing.... mostly your size requirment there is being able
to put the barrel through the headstock. now you're looking at the
14x to 16x range (BIG lathes) because no-one makes a small lathe with
a big spindle hole. why? we don't know....but they sure would be
useful

like something bigger than a "mini-lathe", but, not something too
big to get down the basement stairs.

the 9x20 is easy enough to carry down afaik.

Gear drive or belt? Got me.

gear is (more) powerful and gives more speed options. belt is quiet
and can give the same options. my Myford has 6 belt ratios and I
seldom move it out of the highest speed (640rpm). but nice to have
30 rpm when you need it!

What's the real difference? Maybe I need to be pointed to some
kind of FAQ for machining newbies. I'm open to any help.

swarf, steam and wind

--
David Forsyth -:- the email address is real /"\
http://terrapin.ru.ac.za/~iwdf/welcome.html \ /
ASCII Ribbon campaign against HTML E-Mail - - - - - - - X
If you receive email saying "Send this to everyone you know," / \
PLEASE pretend you don't know me.

A Taiwan lathe worked for me.
As a beginner, I did some damage to it while I was learning.
When I got past that stage I bought something else.
In fact, the first lathe (Lantaine) was very good for the time I had it.

Jordan

F. Hayek wrote:

I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines someone
starting out should consider? I want to make parts for automotive,
motorcycle and gunsmithing use. I'm not talking about engine boring
here, just bushings clamps, brackets. I see a lot of Chinese machines at
Grizzly, Harbor Freight and Jet are they worth it? Thanks

Fred

What you want in a lathe is a tool large enough to do the kind of work you
think you may want to do in the future (swing diameter of 3 times the work
diameter is the usual ratio stated), is popular enough to have accessories
at cheap prices and is known to be a sturdy workhorse that is easy to keep
going.

This means if you think you will stay away from turning automotive
crankshafts, that a 9 inch lathe (which means work diameter up to 3
inches) is probably appropriate. I think used is the smartest way to go.
One lathe that fits all the criteria here is the South Bend. I am a
watchmaker so I am biased toward the Swiss toolroom lathes. I happen to own
a Habegger. While I love that machine, it was more trouble and money to
tool up than a South Bend. And from what I have seen, I could probably do
most of the same work on the South Bend. And remember, there are still
times when you use the lathe for "big" things. I have made 6 inch jigs on
my 8 inch lathe. It is just if you were doing this on a regular basis that
a larger lathe would be much "friendlier" in the setup and work.

For mill, I own a used Select Vertical mill. This is the same pattern used
in the Enco and Grizzly mills that sell for about $2000. The main reason
for using a mill of this pattern is once again, cost of accessories.
Standard machinist accessories (R-8 and such) are much easier and cheaper to
come by. I put a Sony Millman package on it I purchased new on eBay for
$800 and I see little difference between it and a Swiss mill when all is
said and done. But for the work I do, this mill is way overkill to begin
with.

I can't speak of the range of new stuff and what I said above should be
interpreted as my own biased opinion. But I hope this helps.


--
Regards,
Dewey Clark http://www.historictimekeepers.com
Ebay Sales:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...ems&userid=dsc
Restorations, Parts for Hamilton M21s, Products for Craftsmen
Makers of Historic Timekeepers Ultrasonic Clock Cleaning Solution

"F. Hayek" wrote in message
...
I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines someone
starting out should consider? I want to make parts for automotive,
motorcycle and gunsmithing use. I'm not talking about engine boring
here, just bushings clamps, brackets. I see a lot of Chinese machines at
Grizzly, Harbor Freight and Jet are they worth it? Thanks

Fred

"dddd" wrote in :

What you want in a lathe is a tool large enough to do the kind of work
you think you may want to do in the future (swing diameter of 3 times
the work diameter is the usual ratio stated), is popular enough to
have accessories at cheap prices and is known to be a sturdy workhorse
that is easy to keep going.

This means if you think you will stay away from turning automotive
crankshafts, that a 9 inch lathe (which means work diameter up to 3
inches) is probably appropriate. I think used is the smartest way to
go. One lathe that fits all the criteria here is the South Bend. I am
a watchmaker so I am biased toward the Swiss toolroom lathes. I
happen to own a Habegger. While I love that machine, it was more
trouble and money to tool up than a South Bend. And from what I have
seen, I could probably do most of the same work on the South Bend.
And remember, there are still times when you use the lathe for "big"
things. I have made 6 inch jigs on my 8 inch lathe. It is just if
you were doing this on a regular basis that a larger lathe would be
much "friendlier" in the setup and work.

For mill, I own a used Select Vertical mill. This is the same pattern
used in the Enco and Grizzly mills that sell for about $2000. The
main reason for using a mill of this pattern is once again, cost of
accessories. Standard machinist accessories (R-8 and such) are much
easier and cheaper to come by. I put a Sony Millman package on it I
purchased new on eBay for $800 and I see little difference between it
and a Swiss mill when all is said and done. But for the work I do,
this mill is way overkill to begin with.

I can't speak of the range of new stuff and what I said above should
be interpreted as my own biased opinion. But I hope this helps.




From a former machine shop instructor, my advice is buy a couple of used
machines. I have no clue what your current capabilities are for running
these machines, but you want something pretty tough....hehe...
You might find a used Bridgeport mill for fairly cheap. These are tough
mills, and will take quite a bit of abuse. I like SouthBend for a lathe
for about the same reason. Plus...these are popular enough that parts can
be found for them.


--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

"F. Hayek" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Tom Gardner" wrote:

Think about the used market. You'll find better iron for the buck and
there
is a HUGE glut of machines since actually producing things in this
country
is so politically incorrect.


Tom's observation about the politics of being a producer in this crazy
world is spot-on. However, I still have much to learn about machine
tools for the automotive and gunsmithing hobbyist. Hows about some
advice on brands and types of machines? Just a basic lathe and milling
machine to start with. Size? I'm not sure. I'd like something bigger

An FNG like yourself should consider buying through a reputable used
machinery dealer. Tell them what you want and see what they have that fits
the bill. You may pay slightly more than the cheapest available but you
won't end up with something totally unsuitable. I'd check two or three
places. Once you're down to two or three specific choices, ask here (RCM)
for comparison points.

I bought my beloved 10EE from Dave Ficken, http://mermac.com/ He shipped to
me (MN) from New York. Take a look at his stuff. Tell us where you're
located and many folks here can recommend other reputable dealers.

Karl

What ever lathe you get make sure it can swing at least 2" more over the
cross slide than you think you will ever need. I am sitting here now
facing a $200 machining charge on a job I could do in an hour if my 10K
had another 1/4" of swing. :-(

F. Hayek wrote:

I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines someone
starting out should consider? I want to make parts for automotive,
motorcycle and gunsmithing use. I'm not talking about engine boring
here, just bushings clamps, brackets. I see a lot of Chinese machines at
Grizzly, Harbor Freight and Jet are they worth it? Thanks

Fred

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:1z3vb.10503$0K4.1160@lakeread04...
What ever lathe you get make sure it can swing at least 2" more over the
cross slide than you think you will ever need. I am sitting here now
facing a $200 machining charge on a job I could do in an hour if my 10K
had another 1/4" of swing. :-(
Glenn

Email me the shipping charge for the cable. And your snail mail address.

Or, would you rather get something machined for free???????? I got a bigger
lathe.

Karl

Karl Townsend wrote:
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:1z3vb.10503$0K4.1160@lakeread04...

What ever lathe you get make sure it can swing at least 2" more over the
cross slide than you think you will ever need. I am sitting here now
facing a $200 machining charge on a job I could do in an hour if my 10K
had another 1/4" of swing. :-(

Glenn

Email me the shipping charge for the cable. And your snail mail address.

Or, would you rather get something machined for free???????? I got a bigger
lathe.

Karl

Oh, yeah! I was going to give you a few days to get your back out of
traction from digging that ditch across the parking lot and then forgot
about it. :-)

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"F. Hayek" wrote in message ...

I considered an inexpensive import but bought an older used domestic
machine (Delta-Rockwell 11") instead because 1) it kinda fell into my
lap and 2) it's the same lathe I envied in my High School shop ;-) I'm
sure glad I did.

First off its a little bigger (11X24) but most importantly it has more
useful features. A biggy in my opinion is the lack of power cross-feed
on the cheaper import lathes - ugh. My 11" will handle brake rotors
and drums for all of the vehicles I own and the spindle hole is 1-3/8"
and I really wish it were larger. Came with a 6" chuck which
immediately proved a little small for me - got a good used Cushman 9"
L-00 for $50. The Rockwell was a pretty good lathe in it's day and 40
years later it's still rugged as can be, spindle runout barely wobbles
the needle on an .001 indicator, has a variable speed belt drive with
backgear, and 48 different feed speeds/thread pitches without any gear
changes.
The ways may not be PERFECT but they are more than satsifactory for my
needs - this was a toolroom quality lathe in it's time. Im still
trying to find metric change gears for it. Spindle is big enough to
accept 5C collets.

I did buy an Enco import bench mill/drill and rather regret that for
much the same reasons: No power downfeed, no knee, standard
Bridgeport-style powerfeeds won't fit the table, and last but most
certainly not least - HORRIBLE MANUAL.
My decision to buy this machine was based almost solely on a
promotional offer of free shipping/discounted price. I now wish I'd
shopped around for a decent used Bridgeport within hauling distance
and may well do that yet.

I just bought a used Kysor-Johnson Model J horizontal bandsaw after
much shopping around. I considered the Jets, HF, Grizzly, Enco,
Wilton, etc. but with patience found this saw on Ebay 2 hours from my
home for $300. Put a fresh Starret blade on it and powered it up last
night and I am wow-ed! No way any of the $700+ imports could hold a
candle to this (30+ yr old?) saw. It will still be sawing when they
are rusting piles of junk somewhere.

Which brings me to my final thought - 3 phase machines. If you start
shopping for used machines you'll have more selection and better value
for your dollar if you'll consider 3 phase machines. My used machines
are all 3 phase. The quote from your power company for 3 phase service
will knock your socks off but it's not really an issue. My shop has
60A/240V single phase service. I bought an inexpensive ($65) static
phase converter, a real nice used 3HP 3 phase motor ($10) and a
couple of inexpensive ($10) 30Mfd run capacitors and coppled up a nice
rotary phase converter from the bits. A commercial rotary converter
would have cost about $500-700. Building the converter was quite
interesting and really easy. There's all kinds of useful ariticles on
the Internet describing how-to in great detail and I learned an awfull
lot about motors and electricity in the process. My converter will run
any ONE of my three phase machines but ONLY ONE AT A TIME. I don't
have any employees so that's a non-issue. Do not expect to be able to
run any significant equipment with a static converter alone. The
equipment performance will be significantly degraded.

Which brings me to my (really) last thought which is that the cost of
the machine (lathe in your case) is only the first drop in a rather
large bucket.
The tooling for the lathe (Chucks, collets, toolholders, bits,
inserts, etc) can quickly dwarf the buy-in cost of the machine. This
makes used machines with additional tooling even more attractive. Go
to www.msc-direct.com and browse their machine tool accessories to see
what I mean ;-) They are probably top dollar but it's representative.

I'm buying used, having a ton of fun, and spending a ton of money....
hope my wife doesn't find out!

HTH,

Dan
Now an Ebay junkie

I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines someone
starting out should consider? I want to make parts for automotive,
motorcycle and gunsmithing use. I'm not talking about engine boring
here, just bushings clamps, brackets. I see a lot of Chinese machines at
Grizzly, Harbor Freight and Jet are they worth it? Thanks

Fred

Thanks for the advice. I'm eager to start making stuff like bushings
and spacers for my 4x4 off road vehicle and motorcycle projects. I also
hope to be able to make a firearm, or at least the regulated bits :-),
from scratch someday.

I'm mostly a mechanic with some welding skills. I also have woodworking
skills, but, I've never used a metalworking lathe, milling machine or
other precision metal shop tools. I have a set of Mitutoyo micrometers,
Indise telescoping gages, a dial indicator gage and a nice Browne and
Sharp 0 - 12" caliper.

I am planning to use the American Gunsmithing Institute's lathe and
milling video courses to get started.

http://www.americangunsmith.com/mill_lathe.html

In article , F. Hayek
says...

I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines someone
starting out should consider?

You should probably take some local voc-tech classes and
get a feel for what the machines are like, and talk in
person with those who have purchased machinery.

Another important question that has yet to be raised
is, how much do you want to spend?

Keep in mind that you will probably purchase tooling
for whatever you do buy, that will cost approximately
the same amount as the machine itself costs. But
that won't go below some irreducible minimum for things
like measuring tools.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

jim rozen wrote in news:bpjffd011q0
@drn.newsguy.com:

In article , F.
Hayek
says...

I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines
someone
starting out should consider?

You should probably take some local voc-tech classes and
get a feel for what the machines are like, and talk in
person with those who have purchased machinery.

Another important question that has yet to be raised
is, how much do you want to spend?

Keep in mind that you will probably purchase tooling
for whatever you do buy, that will cost approximately
the same amount as the machine itself costs. But
that won't go below some irreducible minimum for things
like measuring tools.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================



Check out Steve's site for some used equipment. Don't think he deals with
manual stuff, but I noticed he had a couple of CNC Bridgeports for $3000
each.



--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

In article ,
Anthony wrote:



From a former machine shop instructor, my advice is buy a couple of used
machines. I have no clue what your current capabilities are for running
these machines, but you want something pretty tough....hehe...
You might find a used Bridgeport mill for fairly cheap. These are tough
mills, and will take quite a bit of abuse. I like SouthBend for a lathe
for about the same reason. Plus...these are popular enough that parts can
be found for them.



I like the idea of finding something like a South Bend 9" lathe to get
started. And go from there. I'm a Toyota 4x4 enthusiast though, so I
might like to be able to cut some metric threads.

I've never operated any such machine tool and I'm not too keen on taking
regular classes. I'm hoping I can learn from the American Gunsmithing
Institute's 30 hour video course.

http://www.americangunsmith.com/mill_lathe.html

They've got lots of cool stuff for gunsmiths too.

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 01:33:01 -0600, F. Hayek wrote:

I like the idea of finding something like a South Bend 9" lathe to get
started. And go from there. I'm a Toyota 4x4 enthusiast though, so I
might like to be able to cut some metric threads.

That may be difficult, depending on the particular thread pitch, without
modifying the lathe (i.e. replacing one or two of the gears). The old South
Bend lathes (and most American made lathes of that vintage) were designed
to work in the inch system, not metric. Some metric threads have inch
equivalents, or are very close, and can be made on old American lathes
unmodified, but not all of the metric threads can be.

I've never operated any such machine tool and I'm not too keen on taking
regular classes. I'm hoping I can learn from the American Gunsmithing
Institute's 30 hour video course.

http://www.americangunsmith.com/mill_lathe.html

They've got lots of cool stuff for gunsmiths too.

To get yourself oriented with machine tool basics, you
might want to skim through the US Army's "Fundamentals
of Machine Tools" training manual:

http://155.217.58.58/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htm

I found this to be very helpful when I first decided that
I wanted a lathe, etc.

Another book which is always recommended by people here
is South Bend's "How to Run a Lathe," which was produced long
ago but is still in print from a few sources:

http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks/lathebk/

This a classic primer on lathe anatomy, basic operation, and etc.
I've never read it myself, but so many people here recommend it
that I feel I can too.

"Artemia Salina" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 01:33:01 -0600, F. Hayek wrote:

I like the idea of finding something like a South Bend 9" lathe to get
started. And go from there. I'm a Toyota 4x4 enthusiast though, so I
might like to be able to cut some metric threads.

That may be difficult, depending on the particular thread pitch, without
modifying the lathe (i.e. replacing one or two of the gears). The old
South
Bend lathes (and most American made lathes of that vintage) were designed
to work in the inch system, not metric. Some metric threads have inch
equivalents, or are very close, and can be made on old American lathes
unmodified, but not all of the metric threads can be.

South Bend sells/had a conversion gear for the 9" SB and other lathes --
called a "metric transpose gear". It replaces one of the big gears in the
drive train. It is a two part gear with 114 on one wheel and 110 on the
other, giving a 110/114 ratio -- or something like that. Anyhow, you put
this gear in the gear train and voila, the lathe is now metric. Many other
older lathe manufacturers had/have similar change gears. However, be
prepared for sticker shock. Typically, old lathe gears go for about
$1/tooth-- putting this into the $225 + cost category. Even so, the gear is
so rare that that I've heard it go for more than the price of the lathe.
The Lindsay publications reprint of the 1934 SB catalog lists this
gear for sale at $30 for a 9" up to $55 for an 18" lathe. At the time, the
basic 9" SB was priced at around $150 -- so the gear's price was fierce even
then.
If you are going to be really heavy into metric, you might consider
a lathe that does both -- it might have to be a new one. As another
alternative, there are always taps and dies -- lot cheaper than a new
lathe.


--

-------------------------------------
Boris Beizer Ph.D. Seminars and Consulting
1232 Glenbrook Road on Software Testing and
Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006 Quality Assurance

TEL: 215-572-5580
FAX: 215-886-0144
Email

------------------------------------------

In article .net, Boris Beizer
says...

South Bend sells/had a conversion gear for the 9" SB and other lathes --
called a "metric transpose gear". It replaces one of the big gears in the
drive train. It is a two part gear with 114 on one wheel and 110 on the
other, giving a 110/114 ratio -- or something like that. Anyhow, you put
this gear in the gear train and voila, the lathe is now metric. Many other
older lathe manufacturers had/have similar change gears. However, be
prepared for sticker shock. Typically, old lathe gears go for about
$1/tooth-- putting this into the $225 + cost category. Even so, the gear is
so rare that that I've heard it go for more than the price of the lathe.

I think the transpose gear was a 127 tooth item. IIRC
Scott Logan sells a pair of gears that gets to within a
few percent of that ideal gear, and he sells them for a
lot less than what the 127 sells for.

I would point out to the original poster that for smaller
threads, one can still use taps and dies.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article .net, Boris
Beizer
says...
I think the transpose gear was a 127 tooth item. IIRC
Scott Logan sells a pair of gears that gets to within a
few percent of that ideal gear, and he sells them for a
lot less than what the 127 sells for.

Yeh -- that was one of the teeth count. I remembers. When I gave away my
9" SB to my son, I gave him the precious transpose gear. Now on those rare
occassions (once in the last four years) that my metric taps and/or dies
(either in the shop or to be bought) doesn't do the trick, I have him cut
the thread on "his" lathe.
Re Scott: I'm sure if he sells them it will do the job to within
government work tolerances.

Boris

--

-------------------------------------
Boris Beizer Ph.D. Seminars and Consulting
1232 Glenbrook Road on Software Testing and
Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006 Quality Assurance

TEL: 215-572-5580
FAX: 215-886-0144
Email

------------------------------------------

I'm almost to the point where I am thinking of letting go my 9"
South Bend. I'm doing an increasing amount on the big lathe. If
someone wants a really super-clean 9" South Bend Model A, longest
bed made, please contact me by email. It's in the Seattle area.
It will come with basic tooling and the buyer will get first crack
at every bit of advanced tooling I own (basically everything except
metric conversion kit) at reasonable pricing. I'm not going to bundle
it all with the lathe because no one would pay what it is worth. If
I sell the lathe and the buyer doesn't want some or all of the tooling
then it will all become available - steady/follow, taper, milling
attachment, faceplates, special chucks, MLA cross-slide table, Aloris
AXA tooling, the works.

This is an exceptional lathe. It was made in 1949 and is still in
excellent condition.

I'm getting sick of people whining they can't find a decent lathe.

I'm willing to consider shipping.

Grant Erwin
to contact me see http://www.tinyisland.com/email.html - doing a "reply-to"
to this message will NOT WORK even if you remove the NOSPAM

In article k.net, Boris
Beizer says...

Yeh -- that was one of the teeth count. I remembers. When I gave away my
9" SB to my son, I gave him the precious transpose gear.

Hmm. I wonder.

I've got a dividing head, I wonder if it's would
be a going proposition to simply start manufacturing 127
tooth gears to fit SB machines?

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Grant Erwin says...

I'm almost to the point where I am thinking of letting go my 9"
South Bend. I'm doing an increasing amount on the big lathe. If
someone wants a really super-clean 9" South Bend Model A, longest
bed made,

I suspect somebody will be buying a nice machine soon.

Also wondering just why it seems like many of the 9"
machines sb sold had such long beds. I think mine was
nearly five feet all told.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

jim rozen wrote in message ...

I've got a dividing head, I wonder if it's would
be a going proposition to simply start manufacturing 127
tooth gears to fit SB machines?

Jim

I needed a set for my Logan. (I run into a lot of wacky metric threads an
antique French lamps)
So I cut a 37/47 pair on my horizontal mill (too small to swing a 127).

It has become my philosophy, that when making parts for my more common
machinery, to make a few extra and ebait them out.

I ganged a stack of aluminum blanks and milled out nine sets.

They sold quite well. Paid for materials, tooling and shop time.

I think that, if some one was round up a small hobber and the necessary
tooling, they could probably make a decent part time job out of hobbing out
change gears.

Paul K. Dickman

In article , Paul K. Dickman says...

I needed a set for my Logan. (I run into a lot of wacky metric threads an
antique French lamps)
So I cut a 37/47 pair on my horizontal mill (too small to swing a 127).

It has become my philosophy, that when making parts for my more common
machinery, to make a few extra and ebait them out.

I ganged a stack of aluminum blanks and milled out nine sets.

Ah. Aluminum. I would have gone to steel first. But
for this application obviously Al is a better choice.
You did this with a form cutter?

They sold quite well. Paid for materials, tooling and shop time.

I think that, if some one was [to] round up a small hobber and the necessary
tooling, they could probably make a decent part time job out of hobbing out
change gears.

That would be the way to make money at it.

Jim

==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

jim rozen wrote in message ...
Ah. Aluminum. I would have gone to steel first. But
for this application obviously Al is a better choice.

The yield strength of many Al alloys is certainly within the range of gray
iron. The aluminum will wear faster, but these were metric transposing
gears, I probably use them 2-3 times a year.

You did this with a form cutter?

Ya, a standard Polish gear cutter. It only took one cutter. That and a 5/32"
keyway broach were the only special tooling I had buy.

Paul K. Dickman

And lo, it came about, that on Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:29:41 -0500 in
rec.crafts.metalworking , "dddd" was inspired to utter:

What you want in a lathe is a tool large enough to do the kind of work you
think you may want to do in the future (swing diameter of 3 times the work
diameter is the usual ratio stated),

Thanks, I had no idea that this rule of thumb even existed.

is popular enough to have accessories
at cheap prices and is known to be a sturdy workhorse that is easy to keep
going.

--
pyotr filipivich
The cliche is that history rarely repeats herself. Usually she just
lets fly with a frying pan and yells "Why weren't you listening
the first time!?"

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:32:11 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:


jim rozen wrote in message ...

I've got a dividing head, I wonder if it's would
be a going proposition to simply start manufacturing 127
tooth gears to fit SB machines?

Jim

I needed a set for my Logan. (I run into a lot of wacky metric threads an
antique French lamps)
So I cut a 37/47 pair on my horizontal mill (too small to swing a 127).

It has become my philosophy, that when making parts for my more common
machinery, to make a few extra and ebait them out.

I ganged a stack of aluminum blanks and milled out nine sets.

They sold quite well. Paid for materials, tooling and shop time.

I think that, if some one was round up a small hobber and the necessary
tooling, they could probably make a decent part time job out of hobbing out
change gears.

Paul K. Dickman


If any one needs hobbers..Im sure I can round up a machine or two.

Gunner

"The British attitude is to treat society like a game preserve where a
certain percentage of the 'antelope' are expected to be eaten by the
"lions".
Christopher Morton

In article ,
jim rozen wrote:

[ ... ]

Hmm. I wonder.

I've got a dividing head, I wonder if it's would
be a going proposition to simply start manufacturing 127
tooth gears to fit SB machines?

First, you might want to check the tables for your dividing
head, to see what you have to do to get 127 teeth.

*Then* come back here and offer to make them for people. :-)

(I've already checked mine.)

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:21:38 -0600, "F. Hayek" wrote:
I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines someone
starting out should consider? I want to make parts for automotive,
motorcycle and gunsmithing use. I'm not talking about engine boring
here, just bushings clamps, brackets. I see a lot of Chinese machines at
Grizzly, Harbor Freight and Jet are they worth it? Thanks

Some of the Chinese machines are quite good deals, especially those
in the 14x40 and larger range. They're made for the job shop market
rather than for the home hobbyist. The smaller ones are aimed at the
casual hobbyist, and won't be as suitable for your use (lots of limitations
which will lead to large amounts of frustration).

For gunsmithing purposes, you'll want something with a large spindle
thru hole (so you can pass a barrel through it to do crowning or chambering
work). So look for a machine which can accept 5C collets in the spindle,
or can use an adaptor to do so.

Most things, other than profiling a rifle barrel, won't require a lot of
center to center distance. A 24 inch CC machine would do, though
in truth a 36 inch or longer center to center distance would be preferred.

You won't need a lot of power. Something in the 1 to 2 hp range will
be entirely adequate. A light bench lathe may suffice, though a heavier
and more rigid floor standing machine would be preferred. The larger
and heavier the machine, the more rigid it will be, which means you
can take larger cuts, and more precise cuts with less springing. It also
means you'll suffer less chatter. But a large heavy lathe will be more
difficult to get into a basement (maybe keep it in the garage instead).

Much the same advice applies to milling machines. The larger and
heavier they are, the better. But again it will be more difficult to get
them into a basement. (See my post in the Bridgeport thread about
cutting an outside drive in entrance to a basement to get around
this problem.)

Used US machines are another option. There is a glut of them on
the market at the moment. Buying used is always something of a
gamble, buying an orphan or long obsolete machine is a bigger
gamble, and most US machines will fall in that category. But you
may stumble onto a deal that's sweet enough to be worth taking
the chance.

Gary

Artemia Salina scribed in
:

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 01:33:01 -0600, F. Hayek wrote:

I like the idea of finding something like a South Bend 9" lathe
to get started. And go from there. I'm a Toyota 4x4 enthusiast
though, so I might like to be able to cut some metric threads.

That may be difficult, depending on the particular thread pitch,
without modifying the lathe (i.e. replacing one or two of the
[]

don't sweat it, metric threads can be had for the price of a file
download (-: Marvin Klotz's bit of software for calculating change
gears will take your existing set (and a gearbox if you have one) and
calculate the closest equivalents. on my changegearonly Myford I
get to within 0.00soemthing % of correct pitch for metric, without
any special gears. this has worked for everyting I've needed. you
might need 100% accurate on long engagement studs, but then I'd say
buy the studs anyway as they will be important (like cylinder head
stuff)

if you do need to make it easier, the 21 / 63 / 127 tooth gears make
it so. 21 or 63 are 'nearly' accurate, 127 is spot on but may not
fit on smaller lathes like my Myford.

I've never operated any such machine tool and I'm not too keen
on taking regular classes. I'm hoping I can learn from the
American Gunsmithing Institute's 30 hour video course.

http://www.americangunsmith.com/mill_lathe.html

They've got lots of cool stuff for gunsmiths too.

my quick list of the basic things you need to know to start
successfully:

feed speeds. lots of references to this, look it up. ignore carbide
speeds, you want HSS (and slower). using the correct feed speeds
makes the surface finish happen, prevents all sorts of evils like
galling, and prevents plastics from melting etc. running slower
also means you have time to prevent yourself making a stuff up (-:

grinding toolbits. you need: HSS blanks, bench grinder, task light.
maybe a few cardboard angle templates. have at it till it works.
lots of references on the web for the angles, but it is mostly not
critical to us home shop blokes because we tend to run slower than
production runs (see feed speeds above).
(many will recommend carbide inserts. yes they're nice, but they
cannot handle interrupted cuts, some types battle to take small cuts,
and you'll miss out on the important skill of grinding bits by hand.
there are a lot of jobs that cannot be done without a custom ground
bit and if you don't have the skill already, when you need the
special one is NOT the time to learn!)

patience. whatever it is you're doing, it will take longer than you
think. it's a hobby. relax (-:

thread cutting. this is easy, but you gotta get the angles and
techniques in your head. and slow the dang lathe down, at least at
first. my first thread was cut at 35 RPM. now I cut at 200 or so.
practise, and knowing where you're going, and thinking it through,
maybe a trial run to see if you really can disengage the feed 'there'
in time (-:

measurement. you have some nice metrology tools, but you'll need to
figure out when using a micrometer is necessary and when a plain
caliper will do it close enough for the job at hand. I tend to take
more time to get it spot on for even simple things, others don't.
Your choise as to how you spend your time. but I've made suspension
bushes and you'll want those ;correct; else they'll rattle, so take
the time (-:

lights. lights? when working with machine tools you need a lot of
light, with few shadows. fluorescents all over the place, and DC
task lights work nicely. the task lights must not be a lot brighter
than the general light else you get too much contrast. running low
voltage DC lights eliminates a lot of 60Hz flicker and make sthat
spinning chuck a bit safer to be around. i use a 50w 12V dichroic
lamp on a PC PSU for spotlighting. the average PC PSU can run 2 50W
lamps, or 4 25W.

To get yourself oriented with machine tool basics, you
might want to skim through the US Army's "Fundamentals
of Machine Tools" training manual:

http://155.217.58.58/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htm

very good. I printed it and sat reading it evenings, in fact read it
a few times BEFORE I got the lathe. I also have a book by Len Mason
that is very good. This contains basics as well as some advanced
stuff on threading, dividing etc, see my web page for soem of the
results of that.

Also look at Lautards 'Beside Reader' series, said to be good.

swarf, steam and wind

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Donald Nichols scribed in
:

First, you might want to check the tables for your dividing
head, to see what you have to do to get 127 teeth.

*Then* come back here and offer to make them for people. :-)

my answer to that is 'fit a stepper motor and an old 486 laptop with
TurboCNC software'.
even hand entering the G codes for a 127 tooth wheel is trivial
compared to any set of tables/hole plates (-:

swarf, steam and wind

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jim rozen scribed in
:

Also wondering just why it seems like many of the 9"
machines sb sold had such long beds. I think mine was
nearly five feet all told.

for making pool cues (-:
fly fishing rods?

gun barrels? depdns on the target market they were aiming at.
anyone know?


swarf, steam and wind

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