Which Lathe for Beginner?
I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines someone
starting out should consider? I want to make parts for automotive, motorcycle and gunsmithing use. I'm not talking about engine boring here, just bushings clamps, brackets. I see a lot of Chinese machines at Grizzly, Harbor Freight and Jet are they worth it? Thanks Fred |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
Think about the used market. You'll find better iron for the buck and there
is a HUGE glut of machines since actually producing things in this country is so politically incorrect. "F. Hayek" wrote in message ... I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines someone starting out should consider? I want to make parts for automotive, motorcycle and gunsmithing use. I'm not talking about engine boring here, just bushings clamps, brackets. I see a lot of Chinese machines at Grizzly, Harbor Freight and Jet are they worth it? Thanks Fred |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
In article ,
"Tom Gardner" wrote: Think about the used market. You'll find better iron for the buck and there is a HUGE glut of machines since actually producing things in this country is so politically incorrect. Tom's observation about the politics of being a producer in this crazy world is spot-on. However, I still have much to learn about machine tools for the automotive and gunsmithing hobbyist. Hows about some advice on brands and types of machines? Just a basic lathe and milling machine to start with. Size? I'm not sure. I'd like something bigger than a "mini-lathe", but, not something too big to get down the basement stairs. Gear drive or belt? Got me. What's the real difference? Maybe I need to be pointed to some kind of FAQ for machining newbies. I'm open to any help. Fred "F. Hayek" wrote in message ... I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines someone starting out should consider? I want to make parts for automotive, motorcycle and gunsmithing use. I'm not talking about engine boring here, just bushings clamps, brackets. I see a lot of Chinese machines at Grizzly, Harbor Freight and Jet are they worth it? Thanks Fred |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
A Taiwan lathe worked for me.
As a beginner, I did some damage to it while I was learning. When I got past that stage I bought something else. In fact, the first lathe (Lantaine) was very good for the time I had it. Jordan F. Hayek wrote: I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines someone starting out should consider? I want to make parts for automotive, motorcycle and gunsmithing use. I'm not talking about engine boring here, just bushings clamps, brackets. I see a lot of Chinese machines at Grizzly, Harbor Freight and Jet are they worth it? Thanks Fred |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
What you want in a lathe is a tool large enough to do the kind of work you
think you may want to do in the future (swing diameter of 3 times the work diameter is the usual ratio stated), is popular enough to have accessories at cheap prices and is known to be a sturdy workhorse that is easy to keep going. This means if you think you will stay away from turning automotive crankshafts, that a 9 inch lathe (which means work diameter up to 3 inches) is probably appropriate. I think used is the smartest way to go. One lathe that fits all the criteria here is the South Bend. I am a watchmaker so I am biased toward the Swiss toolroom lathes. I happen to own a Habegger. While I love that machine, it was more trouble and money to tool up than a South Bend. And from what I have seen, I could probably do most of the same work on the South Bend. And remember, there are still times when you use the lathe for "big" things. I have made 6 inch jigs on my 8 inch lathe. It is just if you were doing this on a regular basis that a larger lathe would be much "friendlier" in the setup and work. For mill, I own a used Select Vertical mill. This is the same pattern used in the Enco and Grizzly mills that sell for about $2000. The main reason for using a mill of this pattern is once again, cost of accessories. Standard machinist accessories (R-8 and such) are much easier and cheaper to come by. I put a Sony Millman package on it I purchased new on eBay for $800 and I see little difference between it and a Swiss mill when all is said and done. But for the work I do, this mill is way overkill to begin with. I can't speak of the range of new stuff and what I said above should be interpreted as my own biased opinion. But I hope this helps. -- Regards, Dewey Clark http://www.historictimekeepers.com Ebay Sales: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAP...ems&userid=dsc Restorations, Parts for Hamilton M21s, Products for Craftsmen Makers of Historic Timekeepers Ultrasonic Clock Cleaning Solution "F. Hayek" wrote in message ... I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines someone starting out should consider? I want to make parts for automotive, motorcycle and gunsmithing use. I'm not talking about engine boring here, just bushings clamps, brackets. I see a lot of Chinese machines at Grizzly, Harbor Freight and Jet are they worth it? Thanks Fred |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
"dddd" wrote in :
What you want in a lathe is a tool large enough to do the kind of work you think you may want to do in the future (swing diameter of 3 times the work diameter is the usual ratio stated), is popular enough to have accessories at cheap prices and is known to be a sturdy workhorse that is easy to keep going. This means if you think you will stay away from turning automotive crankshafts, that a 9 inch lathe (which means work diameter up to 3 inches) is probably appropriate. I think used is the smartest way to go. One lathe that fits all the criteria here is the South Bend. I am a watchmaker so I am biased toward the Swiss toolroom lathes. I happen to own a Habegger. While I love that machine, it was more trouble and money to tool up than a South Bend. And from what I have seen, I could probably do most of the same work on the South Bend. And remember, there are still times when you use the lathe for "big" things. I have made 6 inch jigs on my 8 inch lathe. It is just if you were doing this on a regular basis that a larger lathe would be much "friendlier" in the setup and work. For mill, I own a used Select Vertical mill. This is the same pattern used in the Enco and Grizzly mills that sell for about $2000. The main reason for using a mill of this pattern is once again, cost of accessories. Standard machinist accessories (R-8 and such) are much easier and cheaper to come by. I put a Sony Millman package on it I purchased new on eBay for $800 and I see little difference between it and a Swiss mill when all is said and done. But for the work I do, this mill is way overkill to begin with. I can't speak of the range of new stuff and what I said above should be interpreted as my own biased opinion. But I hope this helps. From a former machine shop instructor, my advice is buy a couple of used machines. I have no clue what your current capabilities are for running these machines, but you want something pretty tough....hehe... You might find a used Bridgeport mill for fairly cheap. These are tough mills, and will take quite a bit of abuse. I like SouthBend for a lathe for about the same reason. Plus...these are popular enough that parts can be found for them. -- Anthony You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make better idiots. Remove sp to reply via email |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
"F. Hayek" wrote in message ... In article , "Tom Gardner" wrote: Think about the used market. You'll find better iron for the buck and there is a HUGE glut of machines since actually producing things in this country is so politically incorrect. Tom's observation about the politics of being a producer in this crazy world is spot-on. However, I still have much to learn about machine tools for the automotive and gunsmithing hobbyist. Hows about some advice on brands and types of machines? Just a basic lathe and milling machine to start with. Size? I'm not sure. I'd like something bigger An FNG like yourself should consider buying through a reputable used machinery dealer. Tell them what you want and see what they have that fits the bill. You may pay slightly more than the cheapest available but you won't end up with something totally unsuitable. I'd check two or three places. Once you're down to two or three specific choices, ask here (RCM) for comparison points. I bought my beloved 10EE from Dave Ficken, http://mermac.com/ He shipped to me (MN) from New York. Take a look at his stuff. Tell us where you're located and many folks here can recommend other reputable dealers. Karl |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
What ever lathe you get make sure it can swing at least 2" more over the
cross slide than you think you will ever need. I am sitting here now facing a $200 machining charge on a job I could do in an hour if my 10K had another 1/4" of swing. :-( F. Hayek wrote: I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines someone starting out should consider? I want to make parts for automotive, motorcycle and gunsmithing use. I'm not talking about engine boring here, just bushings clamps, brackets. I see a lot of Chinese machines at Grizzly, Harbor Freight and Jet are they worth it? Thanks Fred -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message news:1z3vb.10503$0K4.1160@lakeread04... What ever lathe you get make sure it can swing at least 2" more over the cross slide than you think you will ever need. I am sitting here now facing a $200 machining charge on a job I could do in an hour if my 10K had another 1/4" of swing. :-( Glenn Email me the shipping charge for the cable. And your snail mail address. Or, would you rather get something machined for free???????? I got a bigger lathe. Karl |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
Karl Townsend wrote: "Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message news:1z3vb.10503$0K4.1160@lakeread04... What ever lathe you get make sure it can swing at least 2" more over the cross slide than you think you will ever need. I am sitting here now facing a $200 machining charge on a job I could do in an hour if my 10K had another 1/4" of swing. :-( Glenn Email me the shipping charge for the cable. And your snail mail address. Or, would you rather get something machined for free???????? I got a bigger lathe. Karl Oh, yeah! I was going to give you a few days to get your back out of traction from digging that ditch across the parking lot and then forgot about it. :-) -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
"F. Hayek" wrote in message ...
I considered an inexpensive import but bought an older used domestic machine (Delta-Rockwell 11") instead because 1) it kinda fell into my lap and 2) it's the same lathe I envied in my High School shop ;-) I'm sure glad I did. First off its a little bigger (11X24) but most importantly it has more useful features. A biggy in my opinion is the lack of power cross-feed on the cheaper import lathes - ugh. My 11" will handle brake rotors and drums for all of the vehicles I own and the spindle hole is 1-3/8" and I really wish it were larger. Came with a 6" chuck which immediately proved a little small for me - got a good used Cushman 9" L-00 for $50. The Rockwell was a pretty good lathe in it's day and 40 years later it's still rugged as can be, spindle runout barely wobbles the needle on an .001 indicator, has a variable speed belt drive with backgear, and 48 different feed speeds/thread pitches without any gear changes. The ways may not be PERFECT but they are more than satsifactory for my needs - this was a toolroom quality lathe in it's time. Im still trying to find metric change gears for it. Spindle is big enough to accept 5C collets. I did buy an Enco import bench mill/drill and rather regret that for much the same reasons: No power downfeed, no knee, standard Bridgeport-style powerfeeds won't fit the table, and last but most certainly not least - HORRIBLE MANUAL. My decision to buy this machine was based almost solely on a promotional offer of free shipping/discounted price. I now wish I'd shopped around for a decent used Bridgeport within hauling distance and may well do that yet. I just bought a used Kysor-Johnson Model J horizontal bandsaw after much shopping around. I considered the Jets, HF, Grizzly, Enco, Wilton, etc. but with patience found this saw on Ebay 2 hours from my home for $300. Put a fresh Starret blade on it and powered it up last night and I am wow-ed! No way any of the $700+ imports could hold a candle to this (30+ yr old?) saw. It will still be sawing when they are rusting piles of junk somewhere. Which brings me to my final thought - 3 phase machines. If you start shopping for used machines you'll have more selection and better value for your dollar if you'll consider 3 phase machines. My used machines are all 3 phase. The quote from your power company for 3 phase service will knock your socks off but it's not really an issue. My shop has 60A/240V single phase service. I bought an inexpensive ($65) static phase converter, a real nice used 3HP 3 phase motor ($10) and a couple of inexpensive ($10) 30Mfd run capacitors and coppled up a nice rotary phase converter from the bits. A commercial rotary converter would have cost about $500-700. Building the converter was quite interesting and really easy. There's all kinds of useful ariticles on the Internet describing how-to in great detail and I learned an awfull lot about motors and electricity in the process. My converter will run any ONE of my three phase machines but ONLY ONE AT A TIME. I don't have any employees so that's a non-issue. Do not expect to be able to run any significant equipment with a static converter alone. The equipment performance will be significantly degraded. Which brings me to my (really) last thought which is that the cost of the machine (lathe in your case) is only the first drop in a rather large bucket. The tooling for the lathe (Chucks, collets, toolholders, bits, inserts, etc) can quickly dwarf the buy-in cost of the machine. This makes used machines with additional tooling even more attractive. Go to www.msc-direct.com and browse their machine tool accessories to see what I mean ;-) They are probably top dollar but it's representative. I'm buying used, having a ton of fun, and spending a ton of money.... hope my wife doesn't find out! HTH, Dan Now an Ebay junkie I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines someone starting out should consider? I want to make parts for automotive, motorcycle and gunsmithing use. I'm not talking about engine boring here, just bushings clamps, brackets. I see a lot of Chinese machines at Grizzly, Harbor Freight and Jet are they worth it? Thanks Fred |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
Thanks for the advice. I'm eager to start making stuff like bushings
and spacers for my 4x4 off road vehicle and motorcycle projects. I also hope to be able to make a firearm, or at least the regulated bits :-), from scratch someday. I'm mostly a mechanic with some welding skills. I also have woodworking skills, but, I've never used a metalworking lathe, milling machine or other precision metal shop tools. I have a set of Mitutoyo micrometers, Indise telescoping gages, a dial indicator gage and a nice Browne and Sharp 0 - 12" caliper. I am planning to use the American Gunsmithing Institute's lathe and milling video courses to get started. http://www.americangunsmith.com/mill_lathe.html |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
In article , F. Hayek
says... I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines someone starting out should consider? You should probably take some local voc-tech classes and get a feel for what the machines are like, and talk in person with those who have purchased machinery. Another important question that has yet to be raised is, how much do you want to spend? Keep in mind that you will probably purchase tooling for whatever you do buy, that will cost approximately the same amount as the machine itself costs. But that won't go below some irreducible minimum for things like measuring tools. Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
jim rozen wrote in news:bpjffd011q0
@drn.newsguy.com: In article , F. Hayek says... I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines someone starting out should consider? You should probably take some local voc-tech classes and get a feel for what the machines are like, and talk in person with those who have purchased machinery. Another important question that has yet to be raised is, how much do you want to spend? Keep in mind that you will probably purchase tooling for whatever you do buy, that will cost approximately the same amount as the machine itself costs. But that won't go below some irreducible minimum for things like measuring tools. Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== Check out Steve's site for some used equipment. Don't think he deals with manual stuff, but I noticed he had a couple of CNC Bridgeports for $3000 each. -- Anthony You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make better idiots. Remove sp to reply via email |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
In article ,
Anthony wrote: From a former machine shop instructor, my advice is buy a couple of used machines. I have no clue what your current capabilities are for running these machines, but you want something pretty tough....hehe... You might find a used Bridgeport mill for fairly cheap. These are tough mills, and will take quite a bit of abuse. I like SouthBend for a lathe for about the same reason. Plus...these are popular enough that parts can be found for them. I like the idea of finding something like a South Bend 9" lathe to get started. And go from there. I'm a Toyota 4x4 enthusiast though, so I might like to be able to cut some metric threads. I've never operated any such machine tool and I'm not too keen on taking regular classes. I'm hoping I can learn from the American Gunsmithing Institute's 30 hour video course. http://www.americangunsmith.com/mill_lathe.html They've got lots of cool stuff for gunsmiths too. |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 01:33:01 -0600, F. Hayek wrote:
I like the idea of finding something like a South Bend 9" lathe to get started. And go from there. I'm a Toyota 4x4 enthusiast though, so I might like to be able to cut some metric threads. That may be difficult, depending on the particular thread pitch, without modifying the lathe (i.e. replacing one or two of the gears). The old South Bend lathes (and most American made lathes of that vintage) were designed to work in the inch system, not metric. Some metric threads have inch equivalents, or are very close, and can be made on old American lathes unmodified, but not all of the metric threads can be. I've never operated any such machine tool and I'm not too keen on taking regular classes. I'm hoping I can learn from the American Gunsmithing Institute's 30 hour video course. http://www.americangunsmith.com/mill_lathe.html They've got lots of cool stuff for gunsmiths too. To get yourself oriented with machine tool basics, you might want to skim through the US Army's "Fundamentals of Machine Tools" training manual: http://155.217.58.58/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htm I found this to be very helpful when I first decided that I wanted a lathe, etc. Another book which is always recommended by people here is South Bend's "How to Run a Lathe," which was produced long ago but is still in print from a few sources: http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks/lathebk/ This a classic primer on lathe anatomy, basic operation, and etc. I've never read it myself, but so many people here recommend it that I feel I can too. |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
"Artemia Salina" wrote in message ... On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 01:33:01 -0600, F. Hayek wrote: I like the idea of finding something like a South Bend 9" lathe to get started. And go from there. I'm a Toyota 4x4 enthusiast though, so I might like to be able to cut some metric threads. That may be difficult, depending on the particular thread pitch, without modifying the lathe (i.e. replacing one or two of the gears). The old South Bend lathes (and most American made lathes of that vintage) were designed to work in the inch system, not metric. Some metric threads have inch equivalents, or are very close, and can be made on old American lathes unmodified, but not all of the metric threads can be. South Bend sells/had a conversion gear for the 9" SB and other lathes -- called a "metric transpose gear". It replaces one of the big gears in the drive train. It is a two part gear with 114 on one wheel and 110 on the other, giving a 110/114 ratio -- or something like that. Anyhow, you put this gear in the gear train and voila, the lathe is now metric. Many other older lathe manufacturers had/have similar change gears. However, be prepared for sticker shock. Typically, old lathe gears go for about $1/tooth-- putting this into the $225 + cost category. Even so, the gear is so rare that that I've heard it go for more than the price of the lathe. The Lindsay publications reprint of the 1934 SB catalog lists this gear for sale at $30 for a 9" up to $55 for an 18" lathe. At the time, the basic 9" SB was priced at around $150 -- so the gear's price was fierce even then. If you are going to be really heavy into metric, you might consider a lathe that does both -- it might have to be a new one. As another alternative, there are always taps and dies -- lot cheaper than a new lathe. -- ------------------------------------- Boris Beizer Ph.D. Seminars and Consulting 1232 Glenbrook Road on Software Testing and Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006 Quality Assurance TEL: 215-572-5580 FAX: 215-886-0144 ------------------------------------------ |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
In article .net, Boris Beizer
says... South Bend sells/had a conversion gear for the 9" SB and other lathes -- called a "metric transpose gear". It replaces one of the big gears in the drive train. It is a two part gear with 114 on one wheel and 110 on the other, giving a 110/114 ratio -- or something like that. Anyhow, you put this gear in the gear train and voila, the lathe is now metric. Many other older lathe manufacturers had/have similar change gears. However, be prepared for sticker shock. Typically, old lathe gears go for about $1/tooth-- putting this into the $225 + cost category. Even so, the gear is so rare that that I've heard it go for more than the price of the lathe. I think the transpose gear was a 127 tooth item. IIRC Scott Logan sells a pair of gears that gets to within a few percent of that ideal gear, and he sells them for a lot less than what the 127 sells for. I would point out to the original poster that for smaller threads, one can still use taps and dies. Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
"jim rozen" wrote in message ... In article .net, Boris Beizer says... I think the transpose gear was a 127 tooth item. IIRC Scott Logan sells a pair of gears that gets to within a few percent of that ideal gear, and he sells them for a lot less than what the 127 sells for. Yeh -- that was one of the teeth count. I remembers. When I gave away my 9" SB to my son, I gave him the precious transpose gear. Now on those rare occassions (once in the last four years) that my metric taps and/or dies (either in the shop or to be bought) doesn't do the trick, I have him cut the thread on "his" lathe. Re Scott: I'm sure if he sells them it will do the job to within government work tolerances. Boris -- ------------------------------------- Boris Beizer Ph.D. Seminars and Consulting 1232 Glenbrook Road on Software Testing and Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006 Quality Assurance TEL: 215-572-5580 FAX: 215-886-0144 ------------------------------------------ |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
I'm almost to the point where I am thinking of letting go my 9"
South Bend. I'm doing an increasing amount on the big lathe. If someone wants a really super-clean 9" South Bend Model A, longest bed made, please contact me by email. It's in the Seattle area. It will come with basic tooling and the buyer will get first crack at every bit of advanced tooling I own (basically everything except metric conversion kit) at reasonable pricing. I'm not going to bundle it all with the lathe because no one would pay what it is worth. If I sell the lathe and the buyer doesn't want some or all of the tooling then it will all become available - steady/follow, taper, milling attachment, faceplates, special chucks, MLA cross-slide table, Aloris AXA tooling, the works. This is an exceptional lathe. It was made in 1949 and is still in excellent condition. I'm getting sick of people whining they can't find a decent lathe. I'm willing to consider shipping. Grant Erwin to contact me see http://www.tinyisland.com/email.html - doing a "reply-to" to this message will NOT WORK even if you remove the NOSPAM |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
In article k.net, Boris
Beizer says... Yeh -- that was one of the teeth count. I remembers. When I gave away my 9" SB to my son, I gave him the precious transpose gear. Hmm. I wonder. I've got a dividing head, I wonder if it's would be a going proposition to simply start manufacturing 127 tooth gears to fit SB machines? Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
In article , Grant Erwin says...
I'm almost to the point where I am thinking of letting go my 9" South Bend. I'm doing an increasing amount on the big lathe. If someone wants a really super-clean 9" South Bend Model A, longest bed made, I suspect somebody will be buying a nice machine soon. Also wondering just why it seems like many of the 9" machines sb sold had such long beds. I think mine was nearly five feet all told. Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
jim rozen wrote in message ... I've got a dividing head, I wonder if it's would be a going proposition to simply start manufacturing 127 tooth gears to fit SB machines? Jim I needed a set for my Logan. (I run into a lot of wacky metric threads an antique French lamps) So I cut a 37/47 pair on my horizontal mill (too small to swing a 127). It has become my philosophy, that when making parts for my more common machinery, to make a few extra and ebait them out. I ganged a stack of aluminum blanks and milled out nine sets. They sold quite well. Paid for materials, tooling and shop time. I think that, if some one was round up a small hobber and the necessary tooling, they could probably make a decent part time job out of hobbing out change gears. Paul K. Dickman |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
In article , Paul K. Dickman says...
I needed a set for my Logan. (I run into a lot of wacky metric threads an antique French lamps) So I cut a 37/47 pair on my horizontal mill (too small to swing a 127). It has become my philosophy, that when making parts for my more common machinery, to make a few extra and ebait them out. I ganged a stack of aluminum blanks and milled out nine sets. Ah. Aluminum. I would have gone to steel first. But for this application obviously Al is a better choice. You did this with a form cutter? They sold quite well. Paid for materials, tooling and shop time. I think that, if some one was [to] round up a small hobber and the necessary tooling, they could probably make a decent part time job out of hobbing out change gears. That would be the way to make money at it. Jim ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at yktvmv (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
jim rozen wrote in message ... Ah. Aluminum. I would have gone to steel first. But for this application obviously Al is a better choice. The yield strength of many Al alloys is certainly within the range of gray iron. The aluminum will wear faster, but these were metric transposing gears, I probably use them 2-3 times a year. You did this with a form cutter? Ya, a standard Polish gear cutter. It only took one cutter. That and a 5/32" keyway broach were the only special tooling I had buy. Paul K. Dickman |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
And lo, it came about, that on Thu, 20 Nov 2003 07:29:41 -0500 in
rec.crafts.metalworking , "dddd" was inspired to utter: What you want in a lathe is a tool large enough to do the kind of work you think you may want to do in the future (swing diameter of 3 times the work diameter is the usual ratio stated), Thanks, I had no idea that this rule of thumb even existed. is popular enough to have accessories at cheap prices and is known to be a sturdy workhorse that is easy to keep going. -- pyotr filipivich The cliche is that history rarely repeats herself. Usually she just lets fly with a frying pan and yells "Why weren't you listening the first time!?" |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 19:32:11 -0600, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote: jim rozen wrote in message ... I've got a dividing head, I wonder if it's would be a going proposition to simply start manufacturing 127 tooth gears to fit SB machines? Jim I needed a set for my Logan. (I run into a lot of wacky metric threads an antique French lamps) So I cut a 37/47 pair on my horizontal mill (too small to swing a 127). It has become my philosophy, that when making parts for my more common machinery, to make a few extra and ebait them out. I ganged a stack of aluminum blanks and milled out nine sets. They sold quite well. Paid for materials, tooling and shop time. I think that, if some one was round up a small hobber and the necessary tooling, they could probably make a decent part time job out of hobbing out change gears. Paul K. Dickman If any one needs hobbers..Im sure I can round up a machine or two. Gunner "The British attitude is to treat society like a game preserve where a certain percentage of the 'antelope' are expected to be eaten by the "lions". Christopher Morton |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
In article ,
jim rozen wrote: [ ... ] Hmm. I wonder. I've got a dividing head, I wonder if it's would be a going proposition to simply start manufacturing 127 tooth gears to fit SB machines? First, you might want to check the tables for your dividing head, to see what you have to do to get 127 teeth. *Then* come back here and offer to make them for people. :-) (I've already checked mine.) Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 18:21:38 -0600, "F. Hayek" wrote:
I'm wondering what brand and model of lathe and milling machines someone starting out should consider? I want to make parts for automotive, motorcycle and gunsmithing use. I'm not talking about engine boring here, just bushings clamps, brackets. I see a lot of Chinese machines at Grizzly, Harbor Freight and Jet are they worth it? Thanks Some of the Chinese machines are quite good deals, especially those in the 14x40 and larger range. They're made for the job shop market rather than for the home hobbyist. The smaller ones are aimed at the casual hobbyist, and won't be as suitable for your use (lots of limitations which will lead to large amounts of frustration). For gunsmithing purposes, you'll want something with a large spindle thru hole (so you can pass a barrel through it to do crowning or chambering work). So look for a machine which can accept 5C collets in the spindle, or can use an adaptor to do so. Most things, other than profiling a rifle barrel, won't require a lot of center to center distance. A 24 inch CC machine would do, though in truth a 36 inch or longer center to center distance would be preferred. You won't need a lot of power. Something in the 1 to 2 hp range will be entirely adequate. A light bench lathe may suffice, though a heavier and more rigid floor standing machine would be preferred. The larger and heavier the machine, the more rigid it will be, which means you can take larger cuts, and more precise cuts with less springing. It also means you'll suffer less chatter. But a large heavy lathe will be more difficult to get into a basement (maybe keep it in the garage instead). Much the same advice applies to milling machines. The larger and heavier they are, the better. But again it will be more difficult to get them into a basement. (See my post in the Bridgeport thread about cutting an outside drive in entrance to a basement to get around this problem.) Used US machines are another option. There is a glut of them on the market at the moment. Buying used is always something of a gamble, buying an orphan or long obsolete machine is a bigger gamble, and most US machines will fall in that category. But you may stumble onto a deal that's sweet enough to be worth taking the chance. Gary |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
Artemia Salina scribed in
: On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 01:33:01 -0600, F. Hayek wrote: I like the idea of finding something like a South Bend 9" lathe to get started. And go from there. I'm a Toyota 4x4 enthusiast though, so I might like to be able to cut some metric threads. That may be difficult, depending on the particular thread pitch, without modifying the lathe (i.e. replacing one or two of the [] don't sweat it, metric threads can be had for the price of a file download (-: Marvin Klotz's bit of software for calculating change gears will take your existing set (and a gearbox if you have one) and calculate the closest equivalents. on my changegearonly Myford I get to within 0.00soemthing % of correct pitch for metric, without any special gears. this has worked for everyting I've needed. you might need 100% accurate on long engagement studs, but then I'd say buy the studs anyway as they will be important (like cylinder head stuff) if you do need to make it easier, the 21 / 63 / 127 tooth gears make it so. 21 or 63 are 'nearly' accurate, 127 is spot on but may not fit on smaller lathes like my Myford. I've never operated any such machine tool and I'm not too keen on taking regular classes. I'm hoping I can learn from the American Gunsmithing Institute's 30 hour video course. http://www.americangunsmith.com/mill_lathe.html They've got lots of cool stuff for gunsmiths too. my quick list of the basic things you need to know to start successfully: feed speeds. lots of references to this, look it up. ignore carbide speeds, you want HSS (and slower). using the correct feed speeds makes the surface finish happen, prevents all sorts of evils like galling, and prevents plastics from melting etc. running slower also means you have time to prevent yourself making a stuff up (-: grinding toolbits. you need: HSS blanks, bench grinder, task light. maybe a few cardboard angle templates. have at it till it works. lots of references on the web for the angles, but it is mostly not critical to us home shop blokes because we tend to run slower than production runs (see feed speeds above). (many will recommend carbide inserts. yes they're nice, but they cannot handle interrupted cuts, some types battle to take small cuts, and you'll miss out on the important skill of grinding bits by hand. there are a lot of jobs that cannot be done without a custom ground bit and if you don't have the skill already, when you need the special one is NOT the time to learn!) patience. whatever it is you're doing, it will take longer than you think. it's a hobby. relax (-: thread cutting. this is easy, but you gotta get the angles and techniques in your head. and slow the dang lathe down, at least at first. my first thread was cut at 35 RPM. now I cut at 200 or so. practise, and knowing where you're going, and thinking it through, maybe a trial run to see if you really can disengage the feed 'there' in time (-: measurement. you have some nice metrology tools, but you'll need to figure out when using a micrometer is necessary and when a plain caliper will do it close enough for the job at hand. I tend to take more time to get it spot on for even simple things, others don't. Your choise as to how you spend your time. but I've made suspension bushes and you'll want those ;correct; else they'll rattle, so take the time (-: lights. lights? when working with machine tools you need a lot of light, with few shadows. fluorescents all over the place, and DC task lights work nicely. the task lights must not be a lot brighter than the general light else you get too much contrast. running low voltage DC lights eliminates a lot of 60Hz flicker and make sthat spinning chuck a bit safer to be around. i use a 50w 12V dichroic lamp on a PC PSU for spotlighting. the average PC PSU can run 2 50W lamps, or 4 25W. To get yourself oriented with machine tool basics, you might want to skim through the US Army's "Fundamentals of Machine Tools" training manual: http://155.217.58.58/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htm very good. I printed it and sat reading it evenings, in fact read it a few times BEFORE I got the lathe. I also have a book by Len Mason that is very good. This contains basics as well as some advanced stuff on threading, dividing etc, see my web page for soem of the results of that. Also look at Lautards 'Beside Reader' series, said to be good. swarf, steam and wind -- David Forsyth -:- the email address is real /"\ http://terrapin.ru.ac.za/~iwdf/welcome.html \ / ASCII Ribbon campaign against HTML E-Mail - - - - - - - X If you receive email saying "Send this to everyone you know," / \ PLEASE pretend you don't know me. |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
Donald Nichols scribed in
: First, you might want to check the tables for your dividing head, to see what you have to do to get 127 teeth. *Then* come back here and offer to make them for people. :-) my answer to that is 'fit a stepper motor and an old 486 laptop with TurboCNC software'. even hand entering the G codes for a 127 tooth wheel is trivial compared to any set of tables/hole plates (-: swarf, steam and wind -- David Forsyth -:- the email address is real /"\ http://terrapin.ru.ac.za/~iwdf/welcome.html \ / ASCII Ribbon campaign against HTML E-Mail - - - - - - - X If you receive email saying "Send this to everyone you know," / \ PLEASE pretend you don't know me. |
Which Lathe for Beginner?
jim rozen scribed in
: Also wondering just why it seems like many of the 9" machines sb sold had such long beds. I think mine was nearly five feet all told. for making pool cues (-: fly fishing rods? gun barrels? depdns on the target market they were aiming at. anyone know? swarf, steam and wind -- David Forsyth -:- the email address is real /"\ http://terrapin.ru.ac.za/~iwdf/welcome.html \ / ASCII Ribbon campaign against HTML E-Mail - - - - - - - X If you receive email saying "Send this to everyone you know," / \ PLEASE pretend you don't know me. |
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