Hi. I am thinking about buying a 1" solid, round bar of what is labelled as
CDA 360 brass. How hard/tough is this material to cut, sand or drill?

I need it to be about 0.988" outer diameter, so I am wondering if I can just
use sandpaper to take some of the material off. Whatever the proper tool is
to do that, I don't have it, and I want to be able to do all this by myself.

I am also wanting to cut it into smaller cylinders. Can it be cut into
smaller pieces with a hacksaw? See above on tooling.

I am also wanting to drill a hole in the small cylinders, after I press them
into an aluminum piece with a hole. I am trying to make a sleeve/bushing
about .063" wall thickness. Will this drill bit drill through it (about 3/4
inches deep)?

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...&bidsite=CRAFT

What does "silver and deming" drill bit mean??

Does anyone know where to buy a decent priced 59/64" drill bit that will
drill through it? The final internal diameter needs to be 0.923", and that
is the closest drill bit size I think there is. I was just going to use
sandpaper to enlarge the hole a little bit from the 7/8" or 59/64" drill bit
hole.

I am assuming I need a drill press to do this properly, correct? How many
HP of a drill press will I need to buy? Here are two I am looking at:

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...00&tab=spe#tab

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...cal=TOOL&cs=e1


Thank you for any advice. This place is chock full of experts, and I
appreciate everyone's help.

JWho wrote:

Hi. I am thinking about buying a 1" solid, round bar of what is labelled as
CDA 360 brass. How hard/tough is this material to cut, sand or drill?

You probably don't want to know about the actual hardness of bar stock,
which can very depending on when it was last heat treated in the
manufacturing process.

What is worthwhile to note is that this is a leaded alloy, meaning a
small amount of lead has been added to make chips break off clearnly
and easily when cut, instead of in long strings that would wind around
tools.

As a result it machines (drills, turns, etc) fairly easily, except for
one thing:

Drills with the angle of their cutting edges ground appropriate for
steel or wood (ie, most you can buy) will tend to "grab" in brass,
often pulling right out of the chuck (or pulling the chuck of it's
mount), stalling, ruining the hole, and perhaps even breaking.

I need it to be about 0.988" outer diameter, so I am wondering if I can just
use sandpaper to take some of the material off. Whatever the proper tool is
to do that, I don't have it, and I want to be able to do all this by myself.

Yes, though a file might be a better option. Really, you need a
lathe... see below

I am also wanting to cut it into smaller cylinders. Can it be cut into
smaller pieces with a hacksaw? See above on tooling.

Yes, though for 1" stock you'll want the coursest tooth blade you can
find (something like 6-10 teeth per inch, not the usually 20-30), and
expect to have a fairly tired arm by the time you are done. Again, a
lathe will do a much cleaner and easier job.

I am also wanting to drill a hole in the small cylinders, after I press them
into an aluminum piece with a hole. I am trying to make a sleeve/bushing
about .063" wall thickness. Will this drill bit drill through it (about 3/4
inches deep)?

This is where it is almost mandatory to use a lathe. You don't want to
use a drill bit that big, the best thing you would do is to drill a
hole using several drill sizes working up to maybe 1/2" and then use an
inside lathe tool bit to open up the diamter, concentric to the
outside. Then install the finished part.

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...&bidsite=CRAFT

Does anyone know where to buy a decent priced 59/64" drill bit that will
drill through it? The final internal diameter needs to be 0.923", and that
is the closest drill bit size I think there is. I was just going to use
sandpaper to enlarge the hole a little bit from the 7/8" or 59/64" drill bit
hole.

Ugh, you are not going to enjoy that.

I am assuming I need a drill press to do this properly, correct? How many
HP of a drill press will I need to buy? Here are two I am looking at:

It's not so much horsepower and needed extremely slow speed, ideally
less than 200 rpm. A drill press is completely the wrong tool. A
milling machine could do a bad job of it, but to do it right you need a
lathe.

Some alternatives:

- have a machine shop do it for you:

- investigate existing bushings - consider metric sizes! (25 mm is much
closer to your designed OD than 1" is)

- consider other materials: aluminum is easier to drill. bushing
bronze is better for moving applictions. metal filled epoxy might let
you mold the part in place to size.... what exactly do you need this
for?

Go to an electric motor repair shop. They may already have what you
want, or very close. I agree with everything the other poster said.
Also, you would never use sandpaper to size the working surface of a
bearing. Abrasives will be trapped in the material and they will
degrade the shaft quickly.

Pete Stanaitis
------------------

JWho wrote:
Hi. I am thinking about buying a 1" solid, round bar of what is labelled as
CDA 360 brass. How hard/tough is this material to cut, sand or drill?

I need it to be about 0.988" outer diameter, so I am wondering if I can just
use sandpaper to take some of the material off. Whatever the proper tool is
to do that, I don't have it, and I want to be able to do all this by myself.

I am also wanting to cut it into smaller cylinders. Can it be cut into
smaller pieces with a hacksaw? See above on tooling.

I am also wanting to drill a hole in the small cylinders, after I press them
into an aluminum piece with a hole. I am trying to make a sleeve/bushing
about .063" wall thickness. Will this drill bit drill through it (about 3/4
inches deep)?

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...&bidsite=CRAFT

What does "silver and deming" drill bit mean??

Does anyone know where to buy a decent priced 59/64" drill bit that will
drill through it? The final internal diameter needs to be 0.923", and that
is the closest drill bit size I think there is. I was just going to use
sandpaper to enlarge the hole a little bit from the 7/8" or 59/64" drill bit
hole.

I am assuming I need a drill press to do this properly, correct? How many
HP of a drill press will I need to buy? Here are two I am looking at:

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...00&tab=spe#tab

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...cal=TOOL&cs=e1


Thank you for any advice. This place is chock full of experts, and I
appreciate everyone's help.

wrote in message
ps.com...
JWho wrote:

Hi. I am thinking about buying a 1" solid, round bar of what is
labelled as
CDA 360 brass. How hard/tough is this material to cut, sand or drill?

You probably don't want to know about the actual hardness of bar stock,
which can very depending on when it was last heat treated in the
manufacturing process.

What is worthwhile to note is that this is a leaded alloy, meaning a
small amount of lead has been added to make chips break off clearnly
and easily when cut, instead of in long strings that would wind around
tools.

As a result it machines (drills, turns, etc) fairly easily, except for
one thing:

Drills with the angle of their cutting edges ground appropriate for
steel or wood (ie, most you can buy) will tend to "grab" in brass,
often pulling right out of the chuck (or pulling the chuck of it's
mount), stalling, ruining the hole, and perhaps even breaking.

I need it to be about 0.988" outer diameter, so I am wondering if I can
just
use sandpaper to take some of the material off. Whatever the proper
tool is
to do that, I don't have it, and I want to be able to do all this by
myself.

Yes, though a file might be a better option. Really, you need a
lathe... see below

I am also wanting to cut it into smaller cylinders. Can it be cut into
smaller pieces with a hacksaw? See above on tooling.

Yes, though for 1" stock you'll want the coursest tooth blade you can
find (something like 6-10 teeth per inch, not the usually 20-30), and
expect to have a fairly tired arm by the time you are done. Again, a
lathe will do a much cleaner and easier job.

I am also wanting to drill a hole in the small cylinders, after I press
them
into an aluminum piece with a hole. I am trying to make a
sleeve/bushing
about .063" wall thickness. Will this drill bit drill through it (about
3/4
inches deep)?

This is where it is almost mandatory to use a lathe. You don't want to
use a drill bit that big, the best thing you would do is to drill a
hole using several drill sizes working up to maybe 1/2" and then use an
inside lathe tool bit to open up the diamter, concentric to the
outside. Then install the finished part.


http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...&bidsite=CRAFT

Does anyone know where to buy a decent priced 59/64" drill bit that will
drill through it? The final internal diameter needs to be 0.923", and
that
is the closest drill bit size I think there is. I was just going to use
sandpaper to enlarge the hole a little bit from the 7/8" or 59/64" drill
bit
hole.

Ugh, you are not going to enjoy that.

I am assuming I need a drill press to do this properly, correct? How
many
HP of a drill press will I need to buy? Here are two I am looking at:

It's not so much horsepower and needed extremely slow speed, ideally
less than 200 rpm. A drill press is completely the wrong tool. A
milling machine could do a bad job of it, but to do it right you need a
lathe.

Some alternatives:

- have a machine shop do it for you:

- investigate existing bushings - consider metric sizes! (25 mm is much
closer to your designed OD than 1" is)

- consider other materials: aluminum is easier to drill. bushing
bronze is better for moving applictions. metal filled epoxy might let
you mold the part in place to size.... what exactly do you need this
for?


Thanks for the information and suggestions. I can't afford a lathe, and it
would drive up the cost quite a bit to make a few of these, as would paying
a machine shop, buying a mill, etc. That is why I was asking about doing it
by hand. I'll post a link to a picture to hopefully better explain it.

Thanks.

SNIP

... I'll post a link to a picture to hopefully better explain it.

Thanks.

Hi. Here is a link to what I want to make.

http://jasonwho.home.mchsi.com/Bushing.jpg

The aluminum piece is about 3/4" thick. The original hole is about .988" in
internal diameter. After the bushing is put in, the internal diameter of
the hole is about .923". The piece in the picture is not mine, but I have
one of the original pieces, plus another piece that is the proper size, but
won't work in this application. Basically, the new aluminum piece has to
have a hole the same size as the old aluminum piece. The aluminum piece
sets down onto an anodized aluminum or steel shaft (it varies by
application). One has to line it up straight, then it can pressed onto the
shaft with very light hand force. It's not loose, and it is not tight. It
is just somewhat lightly snug. It's the same shaft and shaft diameter
whether the new piece or old piece is used. If one tries to use the new
piece with the "too large" hole, it will rattle around and not line up
properly.

If anyone has any suggestions on how I might be able to do this with hand
tools, please let me know. I bought a shop press, and that is about all the
"proper tools" I may have to help out on this. I can afford a drill press
if need be, but nothing more than that.

Thanks.

On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 08:03:22 GMT, "JWho" wrote:

SNIP

... I'll post a link to a picture to hopefully better explain it.

Thanks.

Hi. Here is a link to what I want to make.

http://jasonwho.home.mchsi.com/Bushing.jpg

The aluminum piece is about 3/4" thick. The original hole is about .988" in
internal diameter. After the bushing is put in, the internal diameter of
the hole is about .923". The piece in the picture is not mine, but I have
one of the original pieces, plus another piece that is the proper size, but
won't work in this application. Basically, the new aluminum piece has to
have a hole the same size as the old aluminum piece. The aluminum piece
sets down onto an anodized aluminum or steel shaft (it varies by
application). One has to line it up straight, then it can pressed onto the
shaft with very light hand force. It's not loose, and it is not tight. It
is just somewhat lightly snug. It's the same shaft and shaft diameter
whether the new piece or old piece is used. If one tries to use the new
piece with the "too large" hole, it will rattle around and not line up
properly.

If anyone has any suggestions on how I might be able to do this with hand
tools, please let me know. I bought a shop press, and that is about all the
"proper tools" I may have to help out on this. I can afford a drill press
if need be, but nothing more than that.

Thanks.


Jessus. That, while simple, is not something you can do other than
with some serious hand fitting. You could..could make a split arbor
and chuck it in the drill press and dress it down with a file..shrug

How many do you need? Post or email the actual dimensions...to the
tenths you want..and Ill turn some out for you, free. Up to 5. If you
need more than 5..Ill have to charge for my time. More than 25, and
shop rates apply as Ill turn em out on a cnc lathe.

Free machining brass ok, or do you need something tougher?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 08:03:22 GMT, "JWho" wrote:

SNIP

... I'll post a link to a picture to hopefully better explain it.

Thanks.

Hi. Here is a link to what I want to make.

http://jasonwho.home.mchsi.com/Bushing.jpg

The aluminum piece is about 3/4" thick. The original hole is about .988"
in
internal diameter. After the bushing is put in, the internal diameter of
the hole is about .923". The piece in the picture is not mine, but I
have
one of the original pieces, plus another piece that is the proper size,
but
won't work in this application. Basically, the new aluminum piece has to
have a hole the same size as the old aluminum piece. The aluminum piece
sets down onto an anodized aluminum or steel shaft (it varies by
application). One has to line it up straight, then it can pressed onto
the
shaft with very light hand force. It's not loose, and it is not tight.
It
is just somewhat lightly snug. It's the same shaft and shaft diameter
whether the new piece or old piece is used. If one tries to use the new
piece with the "too large" hole, it will rattle around and not line up
properly.

If anyone has any suggestions on how I might be able to do this with hand
tools, please let me know. I bought a shop press, and that is about all
the
"proper tools" I may have to help out on this. I can afford a drill
press
if need be, but nothing more than that.

Thanks.


Jessus. That, while simple, is not something you can do other than
with some serious hand fitting. You could..could make a split arbor
and chuck it in the drill press and dress it down with a file..shrug

How many do you need? Post or email the actual dimensions...to the
tenths you want..and Ill turn some out for you, free. Up to 5. If you
need more than 5..Ill have to charge for my time. More than 25, and
shop rates apply as Ill turn em out on a cnc lathe.

Free machining brass ok, or do you need something tougher?

Gunner

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Hi. Thank you for the offer! I sent an e-mail.

"JWho" wrote in message
news:eZYbf.531069$_o.193191@attbi_s71...
SNIP

... I'll post a link to a picture to hopefully better explain it.

Thanks.

Hi. Here is a link to what I want to make.

http://jasonwho.home.mchsi.com/Bushing.jpg

The aluminum piece is about 3/4" thick. The original hole is about .988"
in
internal diameter. After the bushing is put in, the internal diameter of
the hole is about .923". The piece in the picture is not mine, but I have
one of the original pieces, plus another piece that is the proper size,
but
won't work in this application. Basically, the new aluminum piece has to
have a hole the same size as the old aluminum piece. The aluminum piece
sets down onto an anodized aluminum or steel shaft (it varies by
application). One has to line it up straight, then it can pressed onto
the
shaft with very light hand force. It's not loose, and it is not tight.
It
is just somewhat lightly snug. It's the same shaft and shaft diameter
whether the new piece or old piece is used. If one tries to use the new
piece with the "too large" hole, it will rattle around and not line up
properly.

If anyone has any suggestions on how I might be able to do this with hand
tools, please let me know. I bought a shop press, and that is about all
the
"proper tools" I may have to help out on this. I can afford a drill press
if need be, but nothing more than that.

Thanks.

It would help to know what the shafts are all about, especially since some
will be aluminum and some will be steel. That suggests fairly low forces and
low speeds.

There's a lot more to this, but, based on what you've told us, and because
you don't have a lathe, it sounds like this is a job for a sheet-metal
bushing, bent to shape and pressed in.

You can figure the dimensions of a rectangular strip required for the job --
around .032 to .033 inches thick, 3/4 inches wide, etc. Trim it with a file
and file the ends until you have the right fit. Bend it roughly around a
pipe so you can fit it in, and press it in the rest of the way. If it's a
little tight, there are several ways you can open it up a bit. Just watch
out for embedding grit in it if you use some kind of sandpaper. You're
probably not experienced with a triangular bearing scraper, but that would
be the trick, and you can make one out of an old triangular file. If you
haven't done it before, however, I wouldn't mess with it.

In any case, this doesn't sound like a job that requires a precision
bushing. Would you tell us some more about the shaft that runs in it, and
the speeds, lubrication, etc.? Anodized aluminum would make a strange shaft
to run in a brass bushing, to people who are used to metalworking machinery.

BTW, in principle, this method I suggest is similar to that used in early
"thinwall" crankshaft bearings, used in racing engines.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
"JWho" wrote in message
news:eZYbf.531069$_o.193191@attbi_s71...
SNIP

... I'll post a link to a picture to hopefully better explain it.

Thanks.

Hi. Here is a link to what I want to make.

http://jasonwho.home.mchsi.com/Bushing.jpg

The aluminum piece is about 3/4" thick. The original hole is about
..988"
in
internal diameter. After the bushing is put in, the internal diameter
of
the hole is about .923". The piece in the picture is not mine, but I
have
one of the original pieces, plus another piece that is the proper size,
but
won't work in this application. Basically, the new aluminum piece has
to
have a hole the same size as the old aluminum piece. The aluminum piece
sets down onto an anodized aluminum or steel shaft (it varies by
application). One has to line it up straight, then it can pressed onto
the
shaft with very light hand force. It's not loose, and it is not tight.
It
is just somewhat lightly snug. It's the same shaft and shaft diameter
whether the new piece or old piece is used. If one tries to use the new
piece with the "too large" hole, it will rattle around and not line up
properly.

If anyone has any suggestions on how I might be able to do this with
hand
tools, please let me know. I bought a shop press, and that is about all
the
"proper tools" I may have to help out on this. I can afford a drill
press
if need be, but nothing more than that.

Thanks.

It would help to know what the shafts are all about, especially since some
will be aluminum and some will be steel. That suggests fairly low forces
and
low speeds.

Hi. It just sets there. It doesn't move. The shaft doesn't move, the
aluminum piece doesn't move, and I can't have the piece that takes up the
extra space to move either. Sorry if I used terms about something that
moves.



There's a lot more to this, but, based on what you've told us, and because
you don't have a lathe, it sounds like this is a job for a sheet-metal
bushing, bent to shape and pressed in.

You can figure the dimensions of a rectangular strip required for the
job --
around .032 to .033 inches thick, 3/4 inches wide, etc. Trim it with a
file
and file the ends until you have the right fit. Bend it roughly around a
pipe so you can fit it in, and press it in the rest of the way. If it's a
little tight, there are several ways you can open it up a bit. Just watch
out for embedding grit in it if you use some kind of sandpaper. You're
probably not experienced with a triangular bearing scraper, but that would
be the trick, and you can make one out of an old triangular file. If you
haven't done it before, however, I wouldn't mess with it.

I have used sheet metal (aluminum foil folded over about 7 times), but that
is not the best way to do it. I want a piece to fit in the aluminum piece,
as the aluminum piece is sometimes taken off its assembly, and when that
happens, a new shim stock/strip piece would have to be fabricated.

I have a deburring tool, if that is similar?? I have never used it yet,
though. I don't see how the deburring tool would help. Speaking of bearing
scraper, doo you know of a picture of one, somewhere?



In any case, this doesn't sound like a job that requires a precision
bushing. Would you tell us some more about the shaft that runs in it, and
the speeds, lubrication, etc.? Anodized aluminum would make a strange
shaft
to run in a brass bushing, to people who are used to metalworking
machinery.

BTW, in principle, this method I suggest is similar to that used in early
"thinwall" crankshaft bearings, used in racing engines.

--
Ed Huntress



Again, sorry to cause any confusion, as the pieces just set there. I may
not be doing a good enough job of explaining it.

Were the thin pieces of metal used to take up slack caused by the bearings
"wallering out" the bearing areas?? Someone feel free to tell me the
technical term for "wallered out". "Cause to go out of round" or something
like that, I guess. I have a motorcycle hub that the previous owner rode
with a damaged bearing and "caused to go out of round" the bearing holding
area. Of course, that is another thread. SIGH.

Thanks.

"JWho" wrote in message
news15cf.531679$_o.86992@attbi_s71...

I have used sheet metal (aluminum foil folded over about 7 times), but
that
is not the best way to do it. I want a piece to fit in the aluminum
piece,
as the aluminum piece is sometimes taken off its assembly, and when that
happens, a new shim stock/strip piece would have to be fabricated.

I have a deburring tool, if that is similar??

No. Don't worry about the bearing scraper, based on what you've told us
since.

I have never used it yet,
though. I don't see how the deburring tool would help. Speaking of
bearing
scraper, doo you know of a picture of one, somewhere?

Maybe. It's a triagular bearing scraper. One should be on the Web,
somewhere.


In any case, this doesn't sound like a job that requires a precision
bushing. Would you tell us some more about the shaft that runs in it,
and
the speeds, lubrication, etc.? Anodized aluminum would make a strange
shaft
to run in a brass bushing, to people who are used to metalworking
machinery.

BTW, in principle, this method I suggest is similar to that used in
early
"thinwall" crankshaft bearings, used in racing engines.

--
Ed Huntress



Again, sorry to cause any confusion, as the pieces just set there. I may
not be doing a good enough job of explaining it.

Were the thin pieces of metal used to take up slack caused by the bearings
"wallering out" the bearing areas?? Someone feel free to tell me the
technical term for "wallered out". "Cause to go out of round" or
something
like that, I guess.

Something like that. g

I have a motorcycle hub that the previous owner rode
with a damaged bearing and "caused to go out of round" the bearing holding
area. Of course, that is another thread. SIGH.

Thanks.

It's not easy to figure out what's going on here. If the shaft doesn't
rotate, why bother with making a bearing? It sounds like all you have to do
is to fill the space. A flat strip of something, bent into a circle as I
described, ought to do it -- unless there's more to it. Maybe a piece of
plastic coffee-can lid, cut into a rectangle with scissors. g

Can you tell us what the parts are for? We need to get an idea of the forces
involved (if any), and the accuracy required.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
"JWho" wrote in message
news15cf.531679$_o.86992@attbi_s71...

I have used sheet metal (aluminum foil folded over about 7 times), but
that
is not the best way to do it. I want a piece to fit in the aluminum
piece,
as the aluminum piece is sometimes taken off its assembly, and when that
happens, a new shim stock/strip piece would have to be fabricated.

I have a deburring tool, if that is similar??

No. Don't worry about the bearing scraper, based on what you've told us
since.

I have never used it yet,
though. I don't see how the deburring tool would help. Speaking of
bearing
scraper, doo you know of a picture of one, somewhere?

Maybe. It's a triagular bearing scraper. One should be on the Web,
somewhere.


In any case, this doesn't sound like a job that requires a precision
bushing. Would you tell us some more about the shaft that runs in it,
and
the speeds, lubrication, etc.? Anodized aluminum would make a strange
shaft
to run in a brass bushing, to people who are used to metalworking
machinery.

BTW, in principle, this method I suggest is similar to that used in
early
"thinwall" crankshaft bearings, used in racing engines.

--
Ed Huntress



Again, sorry to cause any confusion, as the pieces just set there. I
may
not be doing a good enough job of explaining it.

Were the thin pieces of metal used to take up slack caused by the
bearings
"wallering out" the bearing areas?? Someone feel free to tell me the
technical term for "wallered out". "Cause to go out of round" or
something
like that, I guess.

Something like that. g

I have a motorcycle hub that the previous owner rode
with a damaged bearing and "caused to go out of round" the bearing
holding
area. Of course, that is another thread. SIGH.

Thanks.

It's not easy to figure out what's going on here. If the shaft doesn't
rotate, why bother with making a bearing? It sounds like all you have to
do
is to fill the space. A flat strip of something, bent into a circle as I
described, ought to do it -- unless there's more to it. Maybe a piece of
plastic coffee-can lid, cut into a rectangle with scissors. g

Can you tell us what the parts are for? We need to get an idea of the
forces
involved (if any), and the accuracy required.

--
Ed Huntress



It is for a motocycle tripleclamp, which is a steering part on the front.
It holds on the front suspension units.

In an effort to simplify, I will just show some pictures from the internet
instead of taking some and posting them and linking to them.

Here's an example of the main piece in question:

http://www.rswracing.com/images/cr25...le%20clamp.jpg

Between the two large holes, there is a hole going up and down like the two
large holes (not the real little one on the front). When it is all mounted
together, it looks something like this:

http://www.husaberg.se/EN/images/6426.jpg

You can see where the shaft comes through the previously mentioned hole. I
am wanting to put on a different model top piece. This different top piece
has a different dimension hole than the original piece. I am wanting to
take up the slack with something that will remain a permanent part of the
different top piece. The problem with using some flat sheet metal is that
it will need to be replaced when the upper piece is removed. I need a
permanent solution.

Hopefully, the pictures will better explain what I am hoping to achieve. My
idea was just the best I could come up with so far. If anyone has a better
way to do it with hand tools and a shop press and/or drill press, please let
me know.

Thanks.

"JWho" wrote in message
news:EZ5cf.524714$x96.174362@attbi_s72...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
"JWho" wrote in message
news15cf.531679$_o.86992@attbi_s71...

I have used sheet metal (aluminum foil folded over about 7 times), but
that
is not the best way to do it. I want a piece to fit in the aluminum
piece,
as the aluminum piece is sometimes taken off its assembly, and when
that
happens, a new shim stock/strip piece would have to be fabricated.

I have a deburring tool, if that is similar??

No. Don't worry about the bearing scraper, based on what you've told us
since.

I have never used it yet,
though. I don't see how the deburring tool would help. Speaking of
bearing
scraper, doo you know of a picture of one, somewhere?

Maybe. It's a triagular bearing scraper. One should be on the Web,
somewhere.


In any case, this doesn't sound like a job that requires a precision
bushing. Would you tell us some more about the shaft that runs in
it,
and
the speeds, lubrication, etc.? Anodized aluminum would make a
strange
shaft
to run in a brass bushing, to people who are used to metalworking
machinery.

BTW, in principle, this method I suggest is similar to that used in
early
"thinwall" crankshaft bearings, used in racing engines.

--
Ed Huntress



Again, sorry to cause any confusion, as the pieces just set there. I
may
not be doing a good enough job of explaining it.

Were the thin pieces of metal used to take up slack caused by the
bearings
"wallering out" the bearing areas?? Someone feel free to tell me the
technical term for "wallered out". "Cause to go out of round" or
something
like that, I guess.

Something like that. g

I have a motorcycle hub that the previous owner rode
with a damaged bearing and "caused to go out of round" the bearing
holding
area. Of course, that is another thread. SIGH.

Thanks.

It's not easy to figure out what's going on here. If the shaft doesn't
rotate, why bother with making a bearing? It sounds like all you have to
do
is to fill the space. A flat strip of something, bent into a circle as I
described, ought to do it -- unless there's more to it. Maybe a piece of
plastic coffee-can lid, cut into a rectangle with scissors. g

Can you tell us what the parts are for? We need to get an idea of the
forces
involved (if any), and the accuracy required.

--
Ed Huntress



It is for a motocycle tripleclamp, which is a steering part on the front.
It holds on the front suspension units.

In an effort to simplify, I will just show some pictures from the internet
instead of taking some and posting them and linking to them.

Here's an example of the main piece in question:

http://www.rswracing.com/images/cr25...le%20clamp.jpg

Between the two large holes, there is a hole going up and down like the
two
large holes (not the real little one on the front). When it is all
mounted
together, it looks something like this:

http://www.husaberg.se/EN/images/6426.jpg

You can see where the shaft comes through the previously mentioned hole.
I
am wanting to put on a different model top piece. This different top
piece
has a different dimension hole than the original piece. I am wanting to
take up the slack with something that will remain a permanent part of the
different top piece. The problem with using some flat sheet metal is that
it will need to be replaced when the upper piece is removed. I need a
permanent solution.

Hopefully, the pictures will better explain what I am hoping to achieve.
My
idea was just the best I could come up with so far. If anyone has a
better
way to do it with hand tools and a shop press and/or drill press, please
let
me know.

Thanks.



Aha! Now I see it. You've got a spacer bushing. It needs to be rigid, which
says "metal." The fact that shims wore out before suggests that the pounding
that results from normal use pounded the shims, and/or the shaft or the
supporting piece, a little bit loose. Aluminum foil has no chance of
surviving.

Hokay. Given a shop full of tools, I'd turn the piece out of 303 stainless
for a light press fit, with the bore cut on the lathe to a fairly fine
finish. Lacking the shop, I'd make it from a strip of brass, as I described,
and make a D-bit reamer to ream the bore to size (you *can* make the
cylinder-made-from-strip fit with a press fit, if you file the ends *very*
carefully). Lacking knowledge of how to do that (and a lathe on which to
make the D-bit g!), I'd fit the strip-based-cylinder in with Loctite, and
then hone it with a strip of emery cloth fitted into a cross-slit in a
wooden dowel, driven by a hand-held electric drill. This could come out a
bit sloppy if you don't have some machinist's finesse. If you have a drill
press and some brake-cylinder hones, use them instead.

Or, I'd get a bushing turned in a local machine shop by a guy who owns a
motorcycle, who works cheap. g If it turns out to be a good press fit,
you're done. If it's tight, sand the outside VERY carefully with #300 or so
wet-dry sandpaper until it fits. If it's loose, fit it in there with some
Loctite or epoxy.

I'm sure you'll get other suggestions. There's a simple solution somewhere.
Hang in there.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:

I am wanting to
take up the slack with something that will remain a permanent part of the
different top piece. The problem with using some flat sheet metal is that
it will need to be replaced when the upper piece is removed. I need a
permanent solution.

Lacking the shop, I'd make it from a strip of brass, as I described,

Were it for a non-vehicular application where failure wouldn't carry
the risk of injury,
I'd proably go for the strip of brass, with an addition modifiation to
make it captive:

I'd make the strip from C260 yellow brass, about 3/16" too wide on both
sides, and anneal it by heating it in a propane torch flame at night
until it just shows a dull glow.

Then I'd bend it with my fingers into a cylinder around the shaft, file
the edges, and try to get it installed, extending 3/16" beyond the hole
on both ends. I'd then back out the shaft to be flush with the end of
the bore and use a steel rod to burnish the excess material out into a
flare, being carefull not to cut my fingers on the edge (been there,
done that) Then insert the shaft from the other side and do the same
thing, leaving the piece captive.

Another option, is that I think the difference works out such that a
piece of 1" OD .065" wall tubing could be purchased, slit lengthwise
(before annealing) and installed the same way.

.... but since it's for a vehicular application, formally I wouldn't
touch it.

SNIP

Aha! Now I see it. You've got a spacer bushing. It needs to be rigid,
which
says "metal." The fact that shims wore out before suggests that the
pounding
that results from normal use pounded the shims, and/or the shaft or the
supporting piece, a little bit loose. Aluminum foil has no chance of
surviving.

Hi. Sorry for additional confusion. Maybe this will help. Neither the
original piece or the different piece I want to use came stock with a
bushing. The original piece had a steel shaft that went in the aluminum
hole. The different piece had an aluminum shaft that went in an aluminum
hole. The aluminum shaft, perhaps to be stronger due to it being aluminum
instead of steel, has a larger OD than the steel shaft. Therefore the
different piece has a larger hole. The difference in the pieces' holes is
around .060". When the different piece with the .984" hole is put on the
steel shaft (which went with the original piece that had the .924" ID hole),
there is a gap btween the steel shaft and the different piece's hole. I am
wanting to install something permanent to take up the gap.

I have only tried aluminum foil as a test fit, not riding with it, so I can
not attest to its durability. I'd rather have something more sturdy myself.
By the way, a washer goes on top of the piece around the shaft, then a nut
with 25mm ID threads onto the OD of the steel shaft. It sets on an even
bigger nut underneath. I think the top nut is around 50 foot-pounds, so it
is not going to fall off. I just don't want it to rattle any, and I want
something durabel and something I don't have to replace when I disassemble
it for any maintenance.




Hokay. Given a shop full of tools, I'd turn the piece out of 303 stainless
for a light press fit, with the bore cut on the lathe to a fairly fine
finish. Lacking the shop, I'd make it from a strip of brass, as I
described,
and make a D-bit reamer to ream the bore to size (you *can* make the
cylinder-made-from-strip fit with a press fit, if you file the ends *very*
carefully). Lacking knowledge of how to do that (and a lathe on which to
make the D-bit g!), I'd fit the strip-based-cylinder in with Loctite,
and
then hone it with a strip of emery cloth fitted into a cross-slit in a
wooden dowel, driven by a hand-held electric drill. This could come out a
bit sloppy if you don't have some machinist's finesse. If you have a drill
press and some brake-cylinder hones, use them instead.

I first thought stainless steel would be good because of (in my mind)
corrosion prevention. A buddy in Australia had his done at a machine shop
and the machinist used brass. That is why I thought to use brass. When you
say you would use stainless stell, do you mean a solid round rod or a tube
or what?

You lost me on the reamer part. If it matters, I really want it to be a
full circle. I know what you mean on the wodden dowel in a drill. I
thought I was going to have to buy a drill press to do this, so that would
be OK. I was hoping that and a drill press vice would help. I know what
you mean on those 3-way rectangular stone hone things. That's a good idea!

I was going to do a few to practice and see what works best.




Or, I'd get a bushing turned in a local machine shop by a guy who owns a
motorcycle, who works cheap. g If it turns out to be a good press fit,
you're done. If it's tight, sand the outside VERY carefully with #300 or
so
wet-dry sandpaper until it fits. If it's loose, fit it in there with some
Loctite or epoxy.

I'm sure you'll get other suggestions. There's a simple solution
somewhere.
Hang in there.

--
Ed Huntress

I thought a thin walled bushing would distort if I tried to press it in.
Wouldn't it distort? That's why I was thinking to press in a whole piece,
then drill/sand/cut/curse it into shape.

Thanks.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Ed Huntress wrote:

I am wanting to
take up the slack with something that will remain a permanent part of
the
different top piece. The problem with using some flat sheet metal is
that
it will need to be replaced when the upper piece is removed. I need a
permanent solution.

Lacking the shop, I'd make it from a strip of brass, as I described,

Were it for a non-vehicular application where failure wouldn't carry
the risk of injury,
I'd proably go for the strip of brass, with an addition modifiation to
make it captive:

There's a big nut under the piece with the hole in it, then another nut on
top (25mm thread diameter). It won't go anywhere if the strip failed.



I'd make the strip from C260 yellow brass, about 3/16" too wide on both
sides, and anneal it by heating it in a propane torch flame at night
until it just shows a dull glow.

Then I'd bend it with my fingers into a cylinder around the shaft, file
the edges, and try to get it installed, extending 3/16" beyond the hole
on both ends. I'd then back out the shaft to be flush with the end of
the bore and use a steel rod to burnish the excess material out into a
flare, being carefull not to cut my fingers on the edge (been there,
done that) Then insert the shaft from the other side and do the same
thing, leaving the piece captive.

What does burnish mean??

Are you talking about making a circular I beam looking piece??


Another option, is that I think the difference works out such that a
piece of 1" OD .065" wall tubing could be purchased, slit lengthwise
(before annealing) and installed the same way.

HMMMMM. I saw some of that on eBay, I think. That one little slit would
make it just about right, especially depending on slit width. I have got
some piece of plumbing pipe in the garage. I will take a look at it. I
thought about using Loc-Tite 638 on the bushing I described earlier. Do you
think this would hold a strip in place?? If I can't get the solid tube idea
to work, then I will try this first when it comes time to try the non-sloid
piece ideas.



... but since it's for a vehicular application, formally I wouldn't
touch it.


I know. I know. :-)

Thanks.

"JWho" wrote in message
news:ia7cf.531822$_o.340017@attbi_s71...

I first thought stainless steel would be good because of (in my mind)
corrosion prevention. A buddy in Australia had his done at a machine shop
and the machinist used brass. That is why I thought to use brass. When
you
say you would use stainless stell, do you mean a solid round rod or a tube
or what?

He used brass because it's easy to machine. g As for stainless rod or
tube, whatever the shop has on hand. I said 303 grade because it's easy to
machine. Any stainless will be good for this job.


You lost me on the reamer part.

Sorry. If you're not into machining, forget it. It's not the only way to do
the job.

If it matters, I really want it to be a
full circle.

It only matters because it means you have to have a full circle machined --
unless you got lucky and somebody in the world happened to make a tube of
exactly the dimensions you need.

I know what you mean on the wodden dowel in a drill. I
thought I was going to have to buy a drill press to do this, so that would
be OK. I was hoping that and a drill press vice would help. I know what
you mean on those 3-way rectangular stone hone things. That's a good
idea!

I was going to do a few to practice and see what works best.

That's a very good idea. Since you know the dimensions you want to a value
expressed in thousandths of an inch, I assume you have the instruments to
measure what you're getting.


Or, I'd get a bushing turned in a local machine shop by a guy who owns a
motorcycle, who works cheap. g If it turns out to be a good press fit,
you're done. If it's tight, sand the outside VERY carefully with #300 or
so
wet-dry sandpaper until it fits. If it's loose, fit it in there with
some
Loctite or epoxy.

I'm sure you'll get other suggestions. There's a simple solution
somewhere.
Hang in there.

--
Ed Huntress

I thought a thin walled bushing would distort if I tried to press it in.
Wouldn't it distort? That's why I was thinking to press in a whole piece,
then drill/sand/cut/curse it into shape.

It will distort, but it generally will distort to the shape of the hole it's
being pressed into. If the bore in the aluminum is a good cylinder, your
bushing should be a good cylinder, even if it isn't a good one when you
start to press it in.

As for thin-wall, that's all relative. A piece of brass tube with
30-thousandths walls ain't gonna be the most rigid thing around. If you want
a cylindrical bore, you need a cylindrical hole to push it into.


Thanks.

You're welcome, but I don't know how much we're helping. To do the job you
want to do requires a lathe or a pre-made piece of tubing in the perfect
dimensions you want. Anything you do by hand is going to be a compromise.

If you check out the price of having simple cylinders turned in a machine
shop, of stainless or brass, you may find that it's less than the trouble
you'll go through trying to do it on your own. Try a small machine shop.
Anybody who can run a lathe can do this job.

--
Ed Huntress

In article EZ5cf.524714$x96.174362@attbi_s72, JWho says...

It is for a motocycle tripleclamp, which is a steering part on the front.
It holds on the front suspension units.

Ah.

OK.

Triple clamps and front suspension items are a tad on the
tricky side. If something goes wrong there, the most common
event is serious injury (or death) of the rider.

Because I'm not sure of the engineering that is going into
the design here - was it done by you or somebody else? - I
feel obligated to make only one small caveat:

Any attempts to mickymouse front suspension parts for motorycles
should be looked at with *extreme* predjudice.

That stuff has to be right and it has to be solid. You will
be hard pressed to find anyone who rides who has hand-filed
or -fitted stuff like that. The forces involved are tremendous.

I take it this is for your personal vehicle. If you are doing
it for pay, for somebody else, there are serious, serious liability
issues there.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

JWho wrote:
snip
then drill/sand/cut/curse it into shape.


Love it!
Bob

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
"JWho" wrote in message
news:ia7cf.531822$_o.340017@attbi_s71...

I first thought stainless steel would be good because of (in my mind)
corrosion prevention. A buddy in Australia had his done at a machine
shop
and the machinist used brass. That is why I thought to use brass. When
you
say you would use stainless stell, do you mean a solid round rod or a
tube
or what?

He used brass because it's easy to machine. g As for stainless rod or
tube, whatever the shop has on hand. I said 303 grade because it's easy to
machine. Any stainless will be good for this job.

I will study up on the stainless steel options.



You lost me on the reamer part.

Sorry. If you're not into machining, forget it. It's not the only way to
do
the job.

Whew, thanks. My head is already hurting from trying to figure it out. :-)




If it matters, I really want it to be a
full circle.

It only matters because it means you have to have a full circle
machined --
unless you got lucky and somebody in the world happened to make a tube of
exactly the dimensions you need.

I WISHED! :-)





I know what you mean on the wodden dowel in a drill. I
thought I was going to have to buy a drill press to do this, so that
would
be OK. I was hoping that and a drill press vice would help. I know
what
you mean on those 3-way rectangular stone hone things. That's a good
idea!

I was going to do a few to practice and see what works best.

That's a very good idea. Since you know the dimensions you want to a value
expressed in thousandths of an inch, I assume you have the instruments to
measure what you're getting.

I have a dial caliper, or something like that. It measures on the inside,
and it may not be very accurate. I think if I get someone to make something
to such and such dimension, their tools may be accurate and it would be a
little different than if I tried to make it myself.





Or, I'd get a bushing turned in a local machine shop by a guy who owns
a
motorcycle, who works cheap. g If it turns out to be a good press
fit,
you're done. If it's tight, sand the outside VERY carefully with #300
or
so
wet-dry sandpaper until it fits. If it's loose, fit it in there with
some
Loctite or epoxy.

I'm sure you'll get other suggestions. There's a simple solution
somewhere.
Hang in there.

--
Ed Huntress

I thought a thin walled bushing would distort if I tried to press it in.
Wouldn't it distort? That's why I was thinking to press in a whole
piece,
then drill/sand/cut/curse it into shape.

It will distort, but it generally will distort to the shape of the hole
it's
being pressed into. If the bore in the aluminum is a good cylinder, your
bushing should be a good cylinder, even if it isn't a good one when you
start to press it in.

As for thin-wall, that's all relative. A piece of brass tube with
30-thousandths walls ain't gonna be the most rigid thing around. If you
want
a cylindrical bore, you need a cylindrical hole to push it into.


Thanks.

You're welcome, but I don't know how much we're helping. To do the job you
want to do requires a lathe or a pre-made piece of tubing in the perfect
dimensions you want. Anything you do by hand is going to be a compromise.

If you check out the price of having simple cylinders turned in a machine
shop, of stainless or brass, you may find that it's less than the trouble
you'll go through trying to do it on your own. Try a small machine shop.
Anybody who can run a lathe can do this job.

--
Ed Huntress



Doing it by hand won't be the best way, but I want to try it first. If I
try a couple and can't do it, then I can move on to paying someone to do it.
I just prefer to do it myself.

Thanks.

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article EZ5cf.524714$x96.174362@attbi_s72, JWho says...

It is for a motocycle tripleclamp, which is a steering part on the front.
It holds on the front suspension units.

Ah.

OK.

Triple clamps and front suspension items are a tad on the
tricky side. If something goes wrong there, the most common
event is serious injury (or death) of the rider.

With the way the pieces are mounted, this is not a highly stressed item.
Several others have done the same thing and have reported no problems.



Because I'm not sure of the engineering that is going into
the design here - was it done by you or somebody else? - I
feel obligated to make only one small caveat:

Any attempts to mickymouse front suspension parts for motorycles
should be looked at with *extreme* predjudice.

That stuff has to be right and it has to be solid. You will
be hard pressed to find anyone who rides who has hand-filed
or -fitted stuff like that. The forces involved are tremendous.

I take it this is for your personal vehicle. If you are doing
it for pay, for somebody else, there are serious, serious liability
issues there.

Jim

There's nowhere for the piece to go, so it isn't too risky.

Thanks for the suggestions on the legal aspects.

In article woqcf.556575$xm3.390167@attbi_s21, JWho says...

With the way the pieces are mounted, this is not a highly stressed item.
Several others have done the same thing and have reported no problems.

Which is to say, they never survived to report back?

:^)

Because you have no photo of what you really are trying to
do, it's tough to evaluate what's going on. I can't tell
if the bushing is for a fork tube, or for the steering
tube.

All I can say is, if you want to achieve tolerances and
roundness in the order of +/- 0.001, a lathe is the way
to go. You will be disapointed otherwise I suspect.

Just a guess.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article woqcf.556575$xm3.390167@attbi_s21, JWho says...

With the way the pieces are mounted, this is not a highly stressed item.
Several others have done the same thing and have reported no problems.

Which is to say, they never survived to report back?

:^)

Nah. They are alive and well. :-) More than half have the "just wrap some
shim stock around it" option. Less than half had a macine shop to install a
bushing/sleeve. I am wanting the bushing.



Because you have no photo of what you really are trying to
do, it's tough to evaluate what's going on. I can't tell
if the bushing is for a fork tube, or for the steering
tube.

All I can say is, if you want to achieve tolerances and
roundness in the order of +/- 0.001, a lathe is the way
to go. You will be disapointed otherwise I suspect.

Just a guess.

Jim

The bushing sits inside the upper triple clamp's stem hole. I think I am
going to try it by hand, and if it doesn't work out, then I will just pay
someone to do it. It is not going to be cost effective to buy a lathe.
From everyone's posts, it seems like a lathe is what I really need to do it
properly. I checked out the mini-lathe.com site and Harbor Freight for
lathe prices, but again, it seems it would make more sense to pay someone to
make them than to buy a lathe and do it myself.

Thanks.

In article e5Ccf.558068$xm3.306626@attbi_s21, JWho says...

The bushing sits inside the upper triple clamp's stem hole.

Stem hole for *what*, the fork tube or for the steering head
tube?

I think I am
going to try it by hand, and if it doesn't work out, then I will just pay
someone to do it.

It's really a straightforward job. Just make a simple drawing
(pencil sketch is OK) but you need to put dimensions and tolerances
on it.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article e5Ccf.558068$xm3.306626@attbi_s21, JWho says...

The bushing sits inside the upper triple clamp's stem hole.

Stem hole for *what*, the fork tube or for the steering head
tube?

It's commonly called a "stem". It's the up and down rod in this pictu



I think I am
going to try it by hand, and if it doesn't work out, then I will just pay
someone to do it.

It's really a straightforward job. Just make a simple drawing
(pencil sketch is OK) but you need to put dimensions and tolerances
on it.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article e5Ccf.558068$xm3.306626@attbi_s21, JWho says...

The bushing sits inside the upper triple clamp's stem hole.

Stem hole for *what*, the fork tube or for the steering head
tube?

If this is a double post, I apologize. I hit the wrong key, and the other
one disappeared. I don't know if it was posted or deleted.

It is commonly called the "stem". It is the up and down metal rod in this
pictu

http://www.husaberg.se/EN/images/6426.jpg

You can see it sticking through the stem hole (center) in the upper triple
clamp. I am wanting to use a different upper triple clamp, whose hole is
..060" larger ID.



I think I am
going to try it by hand, and if it doesn't work out, then I will just pay
someone to do it.

It's really a straightforward job. Just make a simple drawing
(pencil sketch is OK) but you need to put dimensions and tolerances
on it.

Jim

If the upper triple clamp's stem hole ID is .984", what do you think the
bushing's OD should be? I want it to be a tight fit. I am planning to use
Loc-Tite 638 so that it hopefully will never come out.

Thanks.

In article wFIcf.558482$xm3.71727@attbi_s21, JWho says...

Stem hole for *what*, the fork tube or for the steering head
tube?

It is commonly called the "stem". It is the up and down metal rod in this
pictu

http://www.husaberg.se/EN/images/6426.jpg

OK, that's the steering head tube, or steering stem. You need to
be able to load up the tapered roller bearings in the headset so
there is typically a race and locknut involved somewhere there,
either above or below the upper triple clamp. You need to be sure
that your design does not allow the preload to come off those
bearings if it fails somehow, and that your modification does not
introduce any additional free play between the triple clamp and the
stem, which could cause steering instability or headshake.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article wFIcf.558482$xm3.71727@attbi_s21, JWho says...

Stem hole for *what*, the fork tube or for the steering head
tube?

It is commonly called the "stem". It is the up and down metal rod in
this
pictu

http://www.husaberg.se/EN/images/6426.jpg

OK, that's the steering head tube, or steering stem. You need to
be able to load up the tapered roller bearings in the headset so
there is typically a race and locknut involved somewhere there,
either above or below the upper triple clamp. You need to be sure
that your design does not allow the preload to come off those
bearings if it fails somehow, and that your modification does not
introduce any additional free play between the triple clamp and the
stem, which could cause steering instability or headshake.

Jim

Hi. The head tube is the part of the frame that the stem passes through.
The top tapered roller bearing goes on the stem first (sitting in a race in
the top of the head tube), then a nut, then the triple clamp, then a nut to
hold the clamp down (40 - 50 ft-lbs). It won't go anywhere. No need to
worry about that. I definitely want to make it so there is no free play.

A vendor on eBay that I bought from before is supposed to e-mail me back
about 1" stainless steel tubing. I asked them to tell which one of the
confusing numbers it was, too. When I am elected king, there will only be
wood, rock and metal, with no variations.

In article InOcf.558874$xm3.13470@attbi_s21, JWho says...

Hi. The head tube is the part of the frame that the stem passes through.
The top tapered roller bearing goes on the stem first (sitting in a race in
the top of the head tube), then a nut, then the triple clamp, then a nut to
hold the clamp down (40 - 50 ft-lbs). It won't go anywhere. No need to
worry about that. I definitely want to make it so there is no free play.

OK, so it's bearing, nut, triple clamp, and then check nut on top of
that, so the clamp is under compression between the two nuts that
get snugged down in opposition to set the preload on the roller
bearings. That will tend to miminize play because the clamp is loaded
up between the two nuts.

So basically you need to make up the difference between the clamp
hole and the steering stem tube. Aluminum is stronger than brass,
steel is also a good choice. You probably want to shoot for snug
slip fits, one or two thou on the diameter. You won't be able to
achieve that with hand tools.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article wFIcf.558482$xm3.71727@attbi_s21, JWho says...

Stem hole for *what*, the fork tube or for the steering head
tube?

It is commonly called the "stem". It is the up and down metal rod in
this
pictu

http://www.husaberg.se/EN/images/6426.jpg

OK, that's the steering head tube, or steering stem. You need to
be able to load up the tapered roller bearings in the headset so
there is typically a race and locknut involved somewhere there,
either above or below the upper triple clamp. You need to be sure
that your design does not allow the preload to come off those
bearings if it fails somehow, and that your modification does not
introduce any additional free play between the triple clamp and the
stem, which could cause steering instability or headshake.

Jim

Based on someone's helpful suggestion, I am going to make a new post with
clear pictures to ask what would be the standard practice.

Thank you.

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...

So basically you need to make up the difference between the clamp
hole and the steering stem tube. Aluminum is stronger than brass...

As long as you don't anneal the aluminum to soften it. 2024 T3 has a Brinell
hardness of around 120. Annealed, it's 45.

Yellow brass, drawn or rolled half-hard, will be around 75 - 80.

...steel is also a good choice.

Much stronger than either.

--
Ed Huntress

On 10 Nov 2005 10:47:20 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article wFIcf.558482$xm3.71727@attbi_s21, JWho says...

Stem hole for *what*, the fork tube or for the steering head
tube?

It is commonly called the "stem". It is the up and down metal rod in this
pictu

http://www.husaberg.se/EN/images/6426.jpg

OK, that's the steering head tube, or steering stem. You need to
be able to load up the tapered roller bearings in the headset so
there is typically a race and locknut involved somewhere there,
either above or below the upper triple clamp. You need to be sure
that your design does not allow the preload to come off those
bearings if it fails somehow, and that your modification does not
introduce any additional free play between the triple clamp and the
stem, which could cause steering instability or headshake.

I think th' guy's flirting with disaster m'self. Is this modification
going to change rake and/or trail, at all? Just a degree or two can
make a major difference in handling.

And it doesn't take much loss of preload to cause some nasty **** to
happen. Hopefully there's some manner of locking mechanism
incorporated to restrict th' lock nut from backing off. Even with a
fine threaded steering stem thread pitch, it doesn't need to back off
much to loosen preload to a hazzardous level. And of course, that
locking nut will need to be checked and readjusted as wear occurs.

Tons of stress happening there as well, yikes! I can't imagine using
shim stock for that application.

Snarl

On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 20:49:44 GMT, "JWho" wrote:

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article wFIcf.558482$xm3.71727@attbi_s21, JWho says...

Stem hole for *what*, the fork tube or for the steering head
tube?

It is commonly called the "stem". It is the up and down metal rod in
this
pictu

http://www.husaberg.se/EN/images/6426.jpg

OK, that's the steering head tube, or steering stem. You need to
be able to load up the tapered roller bearings in the headset so
there is typically a race and locknut involved somewhere there,
either above or below the upper triple clamp. You need to be sure
that your design does not allow the preload to come off those
bearings if it fails somehow, and that your modification does not
introduce any additional free play between the triple clamp and the
stem, which could cause steering instability or headshake.

Jim

Hi. The head tube is the part of the frame that the stem passes through.
The top tapered roller bearing goes on the stem first (sitting in a race in
the top of the head tube), then a nut, then the triple clamp, then a nut to
hold the clamp down (40 - 50 ft-lbs). It won't go anywhere. No need to
worry about that. I definitely want to make it so there is no free play.

There will be free play, or rather, a reduction in preload... just a
matter of time. It's called normal wear and tear on a highly stressed
joint. It doesn't take much of a measurable loss to cause serious
problems. Once there's any preload loss, those shims are gonna be th'
first to go south.

And again, geometry changes, if any, will play into effect. Just a
data point, but th' stock timken neck bearings on a (newer) stock H-D
springer front end need to be *replaced* every 10k miles. Don't
recall which marque you have, but believe you me, there's some serious
stresses happenin' on those bearings.

Snarl

wrote in message
news
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 20:49:44 GMT, "JWho" wrote:

"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article wFIcf.558482$xm3.71727@attbi_s21, JWho says...

Stem hole for *what*, the fork tube or for the steering head
tube?

It is commonly called the "stem". It is the up and down metal rod in
this
pictu

http://www.husaberg.se/EN/images/6426.jpg

OK, that's the steering head tube, or steering stem. You need to
be able to load up the tapered roller bearings in the headset so
there is typically a race and locknut involved somewhere there,
either above or below the upper triple clamp. You need to be sure
that your design does not allow the preload to come off those
bearings if it fails somehow, and that your modification does not
introduce any additional free play between the triple clamp and the
stem, which could cause steering instability or headshake.

Jim

Hi. The head tube is the part of the frame that the stem passes through.
The top tapered roller bearing goes on the stem first (sitting in a race
in
the top of the head tube), then a nut, then the triple clamp, then a nut
to
hold the clamp down (40 - 50 ft-lbs). It won't go anywhere. No need to
worry about that. I definitely want to make it so there is no free play.

There will be free play, or rather, a reduction in preload... just a
matter of time. It's called normal wear and tear on a highly stressed
joint. It doesn't take much of a measurable loss to cause serious
problems. Once there's any preload loss, those shims are gonna be th'
first to go south.

And again, geometry changes, if any, will play into effect. Just a
data point, but th' stock timken neck bearings on a (newer) stock H-D
springer front end need to be *replaced* every 10k miles. Don't
recall which marque you have, but believe you me, there's some serious
stresses happenin' on those bearings.

Snarl


If there was going to be a major amount of "reduction in preload" from wear
between the stem and what it touches, then the aluminum clamps on a jillion
bikes would be "wallered out" greatly by now. :-)

Koyo bearings here. They are doing fine.

Thanks.

wrote in message
...
On 10 Nov 2005 10:47:20 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article wFIcf.558482$xm3.71727@attbi_s21, JWho says...

Stem hole for *what*, the fork tube or for the steering head
tube?

It is commonly called the "stem". It is the up and down metal rod in
this
pictu

http://www.husaberg.se/EN/images/6426.jpg

OK, that's the steering head tube, or steering stem. You need to
be able to load up the tapered roller bearings in the headset so
there is typically a race and locknut involved somewhere there,
either above or below the upper triple clamp. You need to be sure
that your design does not allow the preload to come off those
bearings if it fails somehow, and that your modification does not
introduce any additional free play between the triple clamp and the
stem, which could cause steering instability or headshake.

I think th' guy's flirting with disaster m'self. Is this modification
going to change rake and/or trail, at all? Just a degree or two can
make a major difference in handling.

And it doesn't take much loss of preload to cause some nasty **** to
happen. Hopefully there's some manner of locking mechanism
incorporated to restrict th' lock nut from backing off. Even with a
fine threaded steering stem thread pitch, it doesn't need to back off
much to loosen preload to a hazzardous level. And of course, that
locking nut will need to be checked and readjusted as wear occurs.

Tons of stress happening there as well, yikes! I can't imagine using
shim stock for that application.

Snarl

flirtin' with disaster everyday... :-) I don't think it is going to change
the rake or trail.

There is nothing to keep the nut from coming off, but I haven't seen the
total deaths list in the last 25 years of them making it that way. :-)

Thanks for your comments.