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| Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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Credit Due Harbor Freight
After hearing about Harbor Freight in this newsgroup, I authorized them
to email me their catalog and sales literature. As it turned out I wasn't really interested in the quality of mechandize that they were selling, but their email advertisements continued to arrive at the rate of 2 or 3 each week. This went on for about 3 months. Last week I sent them an email reply with the words REMOVE as the subject. Believe it or not, they immediately took me off their mailing list. A firm with ethics like this deserves special reconition! While I can't get into the products that they sell, I really have to respect their business ethics, and now feel almost obligated to buy something from them, not because I want the product, buy just to show them my respect. Harry C. |
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wrote in message
ups.com... A firm with ethics like this deserves special reconition! While I can't get into the products that they sell, I really have to respect their business ethics, and now feel almost obligated to buy something from them, not because I want the product, buy just to show them my respect. You don't have to feel guilty about buying from Harbor Freight. While some of their stuff is definitely crap (particularly cutting tools like saw blades and drill bits), they also sell some things that are just fine and at a great price. It's up to you to be a discriminating buyer. For example, you could get a brass or copper head hammer from them and it will be as good as most other similar hammers at more expensive outlets (probably even made by the same manufacturer). Or you could buy some welding supplies. Or a shop crane. Or even a decent Chinese mill-drill (not as good as the true Taiwanese Rong-Fu, but probably as good as any other Chinese mill-drill of that design). And Harbor Freight does stand behind many of their products. I bought a pair of bearing press plates from HF a number of years ago (in Southern California). Recently, a piece broke off the thin edge. I took them up to the local HF (in Northern California), and without a receipt, they exchanged the broken set for a new pair. And lest you think HF only sells cheap Chinese tooling, you should know that they also sell name-brand tools at good prices. I bought a high-end Ingersoll Rand air impact wrench from them a while back at a very low sale price. Give HF a try, not just because they practice good business ethics, but because they offer a good value for your tooling dollar. (Standard Disclaimer: I have no interest in HF other than being a satisfied customer.) Regards, Michael |
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#3
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wrote in message ups.com... After hearing about Harbor Freight in this newsgroup, I authorized them to email me their catalog and sales literature. As it turned out I wasn't really interested in the quality of mechandize that they were selling, but their email advertisements continued to arrive at the rate of 2 or 3 each week. This went on for about 3 months. Last week I sent them an email reply with the words REMOVE as the subject. Believe it or not, they immediately took me off their mailing list. A firm with ethics like this deserves special reconition! While I can't get into the products that they sell, I really have to respect their business ethics, and now feel almost obligated to buy something from them, not because I want the product, buy just to show them my respect. Harry C. Harry, don't discount all their products. They sell American built things along with the Asian stuff. You likely noticed name brands along with the other stuff, although there's not exactly a lot of it. Still, there's some outstanding buys. Like you, they have my respect. They have always been very honest people with which to conduct business. Smart leadership in management. Sears, Penney's, and many others could learn something from that operation. Harold |
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I have to agree with the previous comments. Buying from HF can be a
crap shoot, but I have some excellent Chinese machine tools, quick change toolpost, adjustable reamers, boring bars, etc. I avoid the very cheap cutting tools. Picked up a nice set of magnetic welding jigs for $0.99 ea. at the grand opening of a local store. This company knows how to sell and stay in business. Bugs |
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#5
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I've brought a couple things from HF over the past 25 years or so that
have been junk and they took them back and paid for the return shipping. What more could you ask?? B.G. Bugs wrote: I have to agree with the previous comments. Buying from HF can be a crap shoot, but I have some excellent Chinese machine tools, quick change toolpost, adjustable reamers, boring bars, etc. I avoid the very cheap cutting tools. Picked up a nice set of magnetic welding jigs for $0.99 ea. at the grand opening of a local store. This company knows how to sell and stay in business. Bugs |
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#6
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Thanx, Harold for a "voice of reason" reply. I always respect your opinion
and often look to it as advice from an expert. All too often, many posters betray their naiveté by out-of- hand comments re. Harbor Freight and other discount suppliers. I wonder how many of those shop at Wal-Mart. I'm not a particular advocate of Harbor Freight, but like you, I refuse to bad-mouth them in the belief that others will look up to me as more sophisticated than I really am. Bob Swinney "Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message ... wrote in message ups.com... After hearing about Harbor Freight in this newsgroup, I authorized them to email me their catalog and sales literature. As it turned out I wasn't really interested in the quality of mechandize that they were selling, but their email advertisements continued to arrive at the rate of 2 or 3 each week. This went on for about 3 months. Last week I sent them an email reply with the words REMOVE as the subject. Believe it or not, they immediately took me off their mailing list. A firm with ethics like this deserves special reconition! While I can't get into the products that they sell, I really have to respect their business ethics, and now feel almost obligated to buy something from them, not because I want the product, buy just to show them my respect. Harry C. Harry, don't discount all their products. They sell American built things along with the Asian stuff. You likely noticed name brands along with the other stuff, although there's not exactly a lot of it. Still, there's some outstanding buys. Like you, they have my respect. They have always been very honest people with which to conduct business. Smart leadership in management. Sears, Penney's, and many others could learn something from that operation. Harold |
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#7
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I buy some stuff at Harbor Freight too. I have bought 4 of their 110# cast
steel Russian anvils (all for friends) which is a much better deal than you can get anywhere else on a small anvil. I am as much of a tool snob as anyone but I think their "Pittsburgh Professional" series wrenches are very well made. Hard to find, though. You pretty much have to go look in person. I had a buddy who bought a 4" angle grinder, got about an hour out of it. Gunner told me recently that you don't want the blue one, you got to get the orange one for about $5 more, that one lasts for 3-4 years. I bought a little propane tank cart for my weed burning setup - it's built OK and there's *no* way I could build it for that price. I also buy their yellow handled ball peen hammers. They seem fine to me, and at maybe $8 for the whole set I can't lose. I recently went out on the banana peel and picked up their 1" SDS hammer drill. I haven't had it out of the box yet. It was *so* cheap. GWE |
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#8
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I've bought stuff from them and been very happy with the results.
Usually I get simple tools, like hammers, clamps and such. The solar powered auto-dark welding hood was a good buy, as was the dual 151 mig welder (for $200). I've used both a lot, especially the welding hood. Everything has perfrmed great. |
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#9
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I needed an extra drill chuck and arbor. called HF with the model number
for one of their drill presses, got a 5/8" chuck, #2MT arbor to fit, and 2 chuck keys for $9 plus $3 S&H. OK with me. wrote: After hearing about Harbor Freight in this newsgroup, I authorized them to email me their catalog and sales literature. As it turned out I wasn't really interested in the quality of mechandize that they were selling, but their email advertisements continued to arrive at the rate of 2 or 3 each week. This went on for about 3 months. Last week I sent them an email reply with the words REMOVE as the subject. Believe it or not, they immediately took me off their mailing list. A firm with ethics like this deserves special reconition! While I can't get into the products that they sell, I really have to respect their business ethics, and now feel almost obligated to buy something from them, not because I want the product, buy just to show them my respect. Harry C. |
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#10
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"Robert Swinney" wrote in message ... Thanx, Harold for a "voice of reason" reply. I always respect your opinion and often look to it as advice from an expert. All too often, many posters betray their naiveté by out-of- hand comments re. Harbor Freight and other discount suppliers. I wonder how many of those shop at Wal-Mart. I'm not a particular advocate of Harbor Freight, but like you, I refuse to bad-mouth them in the belief that others will look up to me as more sophisticated than I really am. Bob Swinney Thanks for your kind words, Bob. The truth is there are some very good buys at HF---even the import items. I can't tell you the number of times I've been bailed out by buying one of their inexpensive offerings. Sure, often the tool in question is not nearly as nice as something that sells for several times their asking price, but for a one time use, it beats not having one, and it's often superior to something that you might rent. I've been the route of renting tools that are poorly maintained and are nothing but trouble. When the smoke clears, the rent center has your money, you have an empty pocket, but the task at hand still remains. A cheap tool often gets you through the crisis, and you have it for future use, should a need arise. Makes sense to me. A good example is the 1/2" hammer drill I purchased recently. It replaced a Hitachi that I bought yours ago, a Hitachi that was not worth the price I paid. The HF thus far has performed no worse than the Hitachi, and it cost 1/4 what I paid for the Hitachi with dollars that *were* still worth a little, not the worthless dollars of today. I can't imagine anyone that is more snobbish than I am when it comes to machines/tools, yet I still manage to frequent HF fairly often. Some times you simply have to let good sense rule. I just don't set my expectations high when I make a purchase at their stores. Harold |
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#11
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I bought stuff from HF and - when taking into account what I'm buying and
how much I'm paying for it - have generally been pleased. I have to comment that it is truly astounding how much mail I get from them. It seems that more days than not, I'll get a catalog or a flyer or something.... I can't believe that they don't mail away all their profits. I know there must be marketing numbers that justify this tactic, but I figure that a catalog's got to be good for a couple of weeks, at least. I get at least a couple a week. Amazing. Peter wrote in message ups.com... After hearing about Harbor Freight in this newsgroup, I authorized them to email me their catalog and sales literature. As it turned out I wasn't really interested in the quality of mechandize that they were selling, but their email advertisements continued to arrive at the rate of 2 or 3 each week. This went on for about 3 months. Last week I sent them an email reply with the words REMOVE as the subject. Believe it or not, they immediately took me off their mailing list. A firm with ethics like this deserves special reconition! While I can't get into the products that they sell, I really have to respect their business ethics, and now feel almost obligated to buy something from them, not because I want the product, buy just to show them my respect. Harry C. |
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#12
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Have bought a lot of stuff from HF over the years. Most of it is pretty
good. BUT, my rule is "Never buy anything with an edge on it; it won't have one for long..." I've had a couple things fail (small vise, 3/4" rachet) and they exchanged them with no hassle. A lot of things will need "some" work, but at the price, one can well afford it. I bought a wood lathe that vibrated like crazy. Turns out, the drive belt had a little "S" curve in it. A good one from the auto parts store ($2.75) and the machine works great. A small, metal cutting bandsaw went through its original blade in about two turns. I run Starrett blades on it and have had nothing but great service from it. A few things have been absolute junk, but, overall, my experience with them has been very positive. The price on a few things was so low that I figured they wouldn't last long, but worked well, so I went back and bought a spare. In every case, the spare is still in its box... Jerry "DeepDiver" wrote in message ... wrote in message ups.com... A firm with ethics like this deserves special reconition! While I can't get into the products that they sell, I really have to respect their business ethics, and now feel almost obligated to buy something from them, not because I want the product, buy just to show them my respect. You don't have to feel guilty about buying from Harbor Freight. While some of their stuff is definitely crap (particularly cutting tools like saw blades and drill bits), they also sell some things that are just fine and at a great price. It's up to you to be a discriminating buyer. For example, you could get a brass or copper head hammer from them and it will be as good as most other similar hammers at more expensive outlets (probably even made by the same manufacturer). Or you could buy some welding supplies. Or a shop crane. Or even a decent Chinese mill-drill (not as good as the true Taiwanese Rong-Fu, but probably as good as any other Chinese mill-drill of that design). And Harbor Freight does stand behind many of their products. I bought a pair of bearing press plates from HF a number of years ago (in Southern California). Recently, a piece broke off the thin edge. I took them up to the local HF (in Northern California), and without a receipt, they exchanged the broken set for a new pair. And lest you think HF only sells cheap Chinese tooling, you should know that they also sell name-brand tools at good prices. I bought a high-end Ingersoll Rand air impact wrench from them a while back at a very low sale price. Give HF a try, not just because they practice good business ethics, but because they offer a good value for your tooling dollar. (Standard Disclaimer: I have no interest in HF other than being a satisfied customer.) Regards, Michael |
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#13
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On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:33:40 -0700, Grant Erwin
wrote: I buy some stuff at Harbor Freight too. I have bought 4 of their 110# cast steel Russian anvils (all for friends) which is a much better deal than you can get anywhere else on a small anvil. I am as much of a tool snob as anyone but I think their "Pittsburgh Professional" series wrenches are very well made. Hard to find, though. You pretty much have to go look in person. I had a buddy who bought a 4" angle grinder, got about an hour out of it. Gunner told me recently that you don't want the blue one, you got to get the orange one for about $5 more, that one lasts for 3-4 years. I bought a little propane tank cart for my weed burning setup - it's built OK and there's *no* way I could build it for that price. I also buy their yellow handled ball peen hammers. They seem fine to me, and at maybe $8 for the whole set I can't lose. I said the orange ones last at least 3-4 yrs, cause thats how long Ive been using mine..and they are still running strong G I recently went out on the banana peel and picked up their 1" SDS hammer drill. I haven't had it out of the box yet. It was *so* cheap. I install a lot of machine tools, lots of redheads drilled into the floor, and a couple years ago, I bought http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=90340 It was on sale for $39 or so. Mine is white, rather than orange or black. The ad says no bits. Mine came with 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, a drill chuck, a star drill and a chisel, all in a rather nice case. Last week, I sank (24) 1/2" redheads into a concrete floor and bolted down 3 hydrostatic bar feeders. The same sds bits that came with the drill originally. Been working find and dandy for at least 2 years of commercial duty. The 3/8 bit is getting dull though. Its done at least 200 holes. Shrug Gunner GWE Rule #35 "That which does not kill you, has made a huge tactical error" |
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#14
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Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 09:33:40 -0700, Grant Erwin wrote: I buy some stuff at Harbor Freight too. I have bought 4 of their 110# cast steel Russian anvils (all for friends) which is a much better deal than you can get anywhere else on a small anvil. I am as much of a tool snob as anyone but I think their "Pittsburgh Professional" series wrenches are very well made. Hard to find, though. You pretty much have to go look in person. I had a buddy who bought a 4" angle grinder, got about an hour out of it. Gunner told me recently that you don't want the blue one, you got to get the orange one for about $5 more, that one lasts for 3-4 years. I bought a little propane tank cart for my weed burning setup - it's built OK and there's *no* way I could build it for that price. I also buy their yellow handled ball peen hammers. They seem fine to me, and at maybe $8 for the whole set I can't lose. I said the orange ones last at least 3-4 yrs, cause thats how long Ive been using mine..and they are still running strong G I recently went out on the banana peel and picked up their 1" SDS hammer drill. I haven't had it out of the box yet. It was *so* cheap. I install a lot of machine tools, lots of redheads drilled into the floor, and a couple years ago, I bought http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=90340 It was on sale for $39 or so. Mine is white, rather than orange or black. The ad says no bits. Mine came with 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, a drill chuck, a star drill and a chisel, all in a rather nice case. Last week, I sank (24) 1/2" redheads into a concrete floor and bolted down 3 hydrostatic bar feeders. The same sds bits that came with the drill originally. Been working find and dandy for at least 2 years of commercial duty. The 3/8 bit is getting dull though. Its done at least 200 holes. Shrug Gunner GWE Rule #35 "That which does not kill you, has made a huge tactical error" Now that I have a HF store within reach so I can see things in person I'm a lot more comfortable with buying from them. On a recent trip I picked up two of the 6" digital calipers at $16/ea. Those things are amazingly nice for the price. The quality is far better than you would expect. It's nicely finished, no rough edges and burrs. There is no little gold "Made in China" sticker, it's now laser etched in the SS on the back. The plastic housing for the display is well molded. Auto on when you move the slide and it even holds the zero. Even the case is well made. I don't have a gauge block set, but checking some drill bits and comparing reading on larger stuff to my dial calipers it seems plenty accurate. Perhaps not a Starrett or Mitatoyo, but not far behind and a minute fraction of the price. Back when I did CNC service I dealt with a lot of very good Japanese machines and we also had a line from Taiwan. Those Taiwan machines were *not* crap at all, they compared quite well to the Japanese ones. The quality of the Chinese / Taiwanese stuff is definitely improving. Pete C. |
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#15
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"Pete C." wrote in message
... The quality of the Chinese / Taiwanese stuff is definitely improving. Do realize that their is a big difference (in quality and price) between products made in Taiwan and products made in China. They are not directly comparable. |
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#16
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#17
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On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 03:50:19 GMT, "DeepDiver"
wrote: "Pete C." wrote in message ... The quality of the Chinese / Taiwanese stuff is definitely improving. Do realize that their is a big difference (in quality and price) between products made in Taiwan and products made in China. They are not directly comparable. In heavy machine tools..there is indeed. Gunner Rule #35 "That which does not kill you, has made a huge tactical error" |
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#18
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"DeepDiver" wrote in message
... "Pete C." wrote in message ... The quality of the Chinese / Taiwanese stuff is definitely improving. Do realize that their is a big difference (in quality and price) between products made in Taiwan and products made in China. They are not directly comparable. Oops... "their" should have been "there". I just hate that! |
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#19
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In article . net,
"Peter Grey" wrote: I bought stuff from HF and - when taking into account what I'm buying and how much I'm paying for it - have generally been pleased. I have to comment that it is truly astounding how much mail I get from them. It seems that more days than not, I'll get a catalog or a flyer or something.... I can't believe that they don't mail away all their profits. I know there must be marketing numbers that justify this tactic, but I figure that a catalog's got to be good for a couple of weeks, at least. I get at least a couple a week. Amazing. I gave them my Yahoo spam address, and get a couple of mailings a week from them... they come with a laundry list of sale stuff, and most have a $5 off $50 dollars or more, or $10 off $100 dollars or more coupons you can print and take to their brick and mortar stores. I've bought some odds and ends from them, and generally have been happy. Got one of their steel 110 lb Russian anvils... they were on sale, and I used a coupon on top of that. Don't remember what it came to, but it was a smoking deal. Wish I was able to get it back in the early 70's... would have been just the thing for ton's of stuff I've done. Another poster noted the Chinese stuff is getting better. Must admit I agree. They're still a rough around the edges, and have a way's to go still, but definitely better! Erik |
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#20
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I bought my 7x10 lathe at Harbor Freight two years ago. Last year, I
bought an eight inch drill press there. I'm going to use these tools to build the PM Research machine tool models. After that, I'm going to build the PM Research tools in their original sizes. That ought to keep me busy for awhile. |
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#21
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DeepDiver wrote:
"DeepDiver" wrote in message ... "Pete C." wrote in message ... The quality of the Chinese / Taiwanese stuff is definitely improving. Do realize that their is a big difference (in quality and price) between products made in Taiwan and products made in China. They are not directly comparable. Oops... "their" should have been "there". I just hate that! I didn't say there wasn't. The key point is that both have been steadily improving. 20 Years ago much of the stuff from Taiwan was crap, now much of it is quite good. 20 Years ago damn near all the stuff out of China was crap, now there is a growing amount that is pretty decent. Since progress seems more exponential than linear, in another 10 years I expect that Taiwan will be producing stuff on par with the best "big name" countries and China will be up to where Taiwan is today. Since the quality target is somewhat static eventually it won't matter which country an item was produced in, there will be comparable quality available from all. Pete C. |
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#22
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On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 11:29:32 GMT, the renowned "Pete C."
wrote: DeepDiver wrote: "DeepDiver" wrote in message ... "Pete C." wrote in message ... The quality of the Chinese / Taiwanese stuff is definitely improving. Do realize that their is a big difference (in quality and price) between products made in Taiwan and products made in China. They are not directly comparable. Oops... "their" should have been "there". I just hate that! I didn't say there wasn't. The key point is that both have been steadily improving. 20 Years ago much of the stuff from Taiwan was crap, now much of it is quite good. 20 Years ago damn near all the stuff out of China was crap, now there is a growing amount that is pretty decent. Since progress seems more exponential than linear, in another 10 years I expect that Taiwan will be producing stuff on par with the best "big name" countries and China will be up to where Taiwan is today. After the pending re-unification it may not matter much... Since the quality target is somewhat static eventually it won't matter which country an item was produced in, there will be comparable quality available from all. Pete C. As long as buyers chase the cheapest carp (sic) around the world, there will always be a place for stuff that's a bit cheaper and a bit lousier. Bangaladesh, Nigeria etc. However, rising commodity prices might work against that. The old communist economies were impressive in that they could take perfectly good raw materials and degrade them into shoddy manufactured goods that were unsalable anywhere an alternative existed. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
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#23
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Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 11:29:32 GMT, the renowned "Pete C." wrote: DeepDiver wrote: "DeepDiver" wrote in message ... "Pete C." wrote in message ... The quality of the Chinese / Taiwanese stuff is definitely improving. Do realize that their is a big difference (in quality and price) between products made in Taiwan and products made in China. They are not directly comparable. Oops... "their" should have been "there". I just hate that! I didn't say there wasn't. The key point is that both have been steadily improving. 20 Years ago much of the stuff from Taiwan was crap, now much of it is quite good. 20 Years ago damn near all the stuff out of China was crap, now there is a growing amount that is pretty decent. Since progress seems more exponential than linear, in another 10 years I expect that Taiwan will be producing stuff on par with the best "big name" countries and China will be up to where Taiwan is today. After the pending re-unification it may not matter much... I think it's pretty unlikely that we will see any change in the status quo anytime soon. I expect there will be plenty of posturing, but neither side has the will to make a move given the inevitable consequences. Folks in Taiwan are fairly happy with the current situation so they aren't likely to change much. China will posture up a storm, but they know it would be disastrous to invade Taiwan. Even if the US did not assist Taiwan militarily, a US embargo on China trade would pretty well implode their economy. Since the quality target is somewhat static eventually it won't matter which country an item was produced in, there will be comparable quality available from all. Pete C. As long as buyers chase the cheapest carp (sic) around the world, there will always be a place for stuff that's a bit cheaper and a bit lousier. Bangaladesh, Nigeria etc. However, rising commodity prices might work against that. The old communist economies were impressive in that they could take perfectly good raw materials and degrade them into shoddy manufactured goods that were unsalable anywhere an alternative existed. True, but the point is that the differences in quality are steadily shrinking. In the not too distant future you may well be able to buy an item made in China or Taiwan or wherever that is cheaper than one made in the US or Germany or wherever, but the quality will be comparable. Pete C. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
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#24
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On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 14:18:32 GMT, the renowned "Pete C."
wrote: Spehro Pefhany wrote: After the pending re-unification it may not matter much... I think it's pretty unlikely that we will see any change in the status quo anytime soon. I expect there will be plenty of posturing, but neither side has the will to make a move given the inevitable consequences. Yes, the status quo is benefitting everyone at the moment. Including a lot of influential Americans as well as Chinese on and off Taiwan. Folks in Taiwan are fairly happy with the current situation so they aren't likely to change much. Some more than others. Most business people that I know in Taiwan would like to see closer ties and fewer restrictions, while there are others who are pushing for independence. There are so many Taiwanese living on the mainland now, and so much of their investment money flowing there.... and the interdependence (more like dependence) is on a sharp uptrend. Mainland China is their largest export market, by a substantial margin, as well as the location of a lot of their factories. China will posture up a storm, but they know it would be disastrous to invade Taiwan. I really doubt they will ever have to. The way it's going, it will fall into their hands anyway, in time. Perhaps in a similar way as Hong Kong and Macau have, with two (human) generations of disparate economic systems promised. Even if the US did not assist Taiwan militarily, a US embargo on China trade would pretty well implode their economy. Assuming the US could afford to sustain an effective embargo on China. There may come a time when it won't be worth it. They are a lot more motivated on this matter, and they have a certain amount of support inside Taiwan (including inside the military and police as well as the business community), and a lot outside due in part to their growing economic clout. And it's very early days yet, they are still rather weak in almost every way. True, but the point is that the differences in quality are steadily shrinking. In the not too distant future you may well be able to buy an item made in China or Taiwan or wherever that is cheaper than one made in the US or Germany or wherever, but the quality will be comparable. Pete C. I suppose that's inevitable provided trade barriers are not a strong factor. The good should push out the bad. Best regards, Spehro Pefhany -- "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward" Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com |
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#25
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Jerry Foster wrote:
Have bought a lot of stuff from HF over the years. Most of it is pretty good. BUT, my rule is "Never buy anything with an edge on it; it won't have one for long..." snipped Well, my experience today contradicts that. I couldn't resist buying an assortment of 10 metalworking chisels and punches from them when they were on sale for less than $5.00. The chisels are the standard "cold chisel" style, with blade widths from 1/2" to 7/8" and there were a few flat ended round punches and a couple of cone pointed round ones in the mix. The longest chisel was the 7/8" wide one, at 9-1/2". All stamped "China". Today I had to replace a brick in the bottom riser of our front steps. Water must have gotten into it and frozen last winter, 'cause a big chunk about half the length of the brick was missing, leaving an ugly hole that kept catching my eye every time I walked toward it. I didn't want to use one of my "good" chrome plated chisels so I grabbed one of the HF ones and a hand sledge to knock out the rest of that brick and its mortar. It was a PIA to reach, being only one course up from the front walk. I was stuck with lying on my side most of the time so I could see what I was doing. When I was putting the tools away I looked at the business end of that HF chisel and it was barely dulled. The striking end was a little mushroomed but 30 seconds at the bench grinder had both ends looking fine again. I think I got my money's worth that time. Jeff -- Jeffry Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE) "As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public schools" |
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#26
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The quality of the Chinese / Taiwanese stuff is definitely improving. Indeed the quality of a lot of the Chinese stuff is clearly working it's way up. Probably part of this is because first tier manufacturers have been putting huge investments into factories in China and are driving the quality levels up. Yesterday I was looking at a very nice Dewalt 14" chop saw ... sure enough, Made in China. Funny, the price is still $200  .I still have some cheap Fuller brand Made in Japan combination wrenches I bought for next to nothing back in the early 1970s. At the time I thought I would need to soon replace them with some good 'merican ones ... and they are still working perfectly well after 30 years of use and abuse. The Taiwan stuff is now mostly of very good to excellent quality and China is moving on up. John |
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#27
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"MikeMandaville" wrote in message oups.com... I bought my 7x10 lathe at Harbor Freight two years ago. Last year, I bought an eight inch drill press there. I'm going to use these tools to build the PM Research machine tool models. After that, I'm going to build the PM Research tools in their original sizes. That ought to keep me busy for awhile. Way cool. Are there any published how-to plans or articles for building such machines full sized? John |
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#28
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John Horner wrote: "MikeMandaville" wrote in message oups.com... I bought my 7x10 lathe at Harbor Freight two years ago. Last year, I bought an eight inch drill press there. I'm going to use these tools to build the PM Research machine tool models. After that, I'm going to build the PM Research tools in their original sizes. That ought to keep me busy for awhile. Way cool. Are there any published how-to plans or articles for building such machines full sized? John Hello, John. I am assuming that you probably already know about the Gingery shop-from-scrap series, though, just in case you don't, here is the link: http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/series/index.html Just to save some time, I've been thinking about doing the casting by using the thermit process: http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks4/thermit/ I can buy all of the chemicals to make thermit from Skyliter, though that would be an expensive way to go, so instead, I plan on purchasing all of my materials locally. I will be able to get the iron oxide at my local ceramics supplier, and then process it with a homemade ball mill. Now all I will need to do is to determine the most efficient means of pulverizing the aluminum. Any suggestions? :-) Mike Mandaville Austin, Texas |
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#29
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John Horner wrote:
The quality of the Chinese / Taiwanese stuff is definitely improving. Indeed the quality of a lot of the Chinese stuff is clearly working it's way up. Probably part of this is because first tier manufacturers have been putting huge investments into factories in China and are driving the quality levels up. Yesterday I was looking at a very nice Dewalt 14" chop saw ... sure enough, Made in China. Funny, the price is still $200 .It could be "Still $200, instead of $240". |
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#30
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John Horner wrote:
The quality of the Chinese / Taiwanese stuff is definitely improving. Indeed the quality of a lot of the Chinese stuff is clearly working it's way up. Probably part of this is because first tier manufacturers have been putting huge investments into factories in China and are driving the quality levels up. Yesterday I was looking at a very nice Dewalt 14" chop saw ... sure enough, Made in China. Funny, the price is still $200 .I still have some cheap Fuller brand Made in Japan combination wrenches I bought for next to nothing back in the early 1970s. At the time I thought I would need to soon replace them with some good 'merican ones ... and they are still working perfectly well after 30 years of use and abuse. The Taiwan stuff is now mostly of very good to excellent quality and China is moving on up. John Japanese stuff (well, some of it anyway) has been top quality for a lot of years now. John |
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#31
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John Horner wrote: The quality of the Chinese / Taiwanese stuff is definitely improving. Indeed the quality of a lot of the Chinese stuff is clearly working it's way up. Probably part of this is because first tier manufacturers have been putting huge investments into factories in China and are driving the quality levels up. Yesterday I was looking at a very nice Dewalt 14" chop saw ... sure enough, Made in China. Funny, the price is still $200 .I still have some cheap Fuller brand Made in Japan combination wrenches I bought for next to nothing back in the early 1970s. At the time I thought I would need to soon replace them with some good 'merican ones ... and they are still working perfectly well after 30 years of use and abuse. The Taiwan stuff is now mostly of very good to excellent quality and China is moving on up. John The problem that I see is inconsistency of product. Although you can get Chinese chain and sprockets (example we use a lot of) that are as good or better than some of the stuff made elsewhere (including the USA), you never know if you are actually getting the good stuff or not. SOME manufacturers in that neck of the world are variable in quality but the problem I see most often is the distribution end. Like Americans, the location you purchase from is chasing maximum profitability so often substitute cheap rather than quality. If you can get the product directly from the manufacturer, quality is fairly consistent. However, there are LOTS of resellers posing as the manufacturer of the goods. Big money as the middleman. After shipping goods this way, not many of them either have leverage to correct problems or willingness to give a rats ass. Actually, it's getting to be a similar problem in the US. One competitor of ours has a fixed policy of NOT taking care of problems. They figure that most purchasing agents change jobs about every 2 years and it's cheaper to start all over with the new guy who doesn't know about the problems than take care of the current problem. Koz |
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#32
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"MikeMandaville" wrote in message I am assuming that you probably already know about the Gingery shop-from-scrap series, though, just in case you don't, here is the link: http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/series/index.html I am new to the metalworking thing, though I am a long time woodworker and DIY auto mechanic. Thanks for the reference, I have ordered the books! Just to save some time, I've been thinking about doing the casting by using the thermit process: http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks4/thermit/ I've long thought how great it would be to be able to do some small part casting. Hmmm! John |
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#33
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John Horner wrote: "MikeMandaville" wrote in message I am assuming that you probably already know about the Gingery shop-from-scrap series, though, just in case you don't, here is the link: http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/djgbk/series/index.html I am new to the metalworking thing, though I am a long time woodworker and DIY auto mechanic. Thanks for the reference, I have ordered the books! Just to save some time, I've been thinking about doing the casting by using the thermit process: http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks4/thermit/ I've long thought how great it would be to be able to do some small part casting. Hmmm! John Hello again, John. Welcome to what has been dubbed "the Gingery journey"! Here is our mailing list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gingery_machines/ We are more than two thousand strong now, and growing. Your woodworking experience will put you in good stead, because, of course, it is necessary to build a wooden pattern for each cast part, and I think that it would probably be fair to say that the patternmaking is the main part of the work. I was only joking about the thermit. On the other hand, I have seen precision steel casting done with thermit, so it is definitely possible. For example, one fellow I know cast a steel link for a chain. The amazing thing, however, is that he started out with a link which was already cast, and then he cast the second link so that it interlocked with the first link! Mike Mandaville building a test stand for my first (storebought)radio-controlled model airplane engine (I'll build the next one myself!) |
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