Ed Pawlowski wrote:

The situation in India show that what we did works. Florida has
opened up but they also took precautions and vaccinated a lot of
people to get a jump on it.

The situation in Florida is not exactly rosey though. Like the rest of
us, they are at a nominal 50%. What they do have is a climate that
allowed a lot of outdoor dining and other things so didn't get as bad
of a surge as NY city etc.

We get anti-vax idiots all the time in 'NextDoor' here in Virginia
Beach. Invariably young and full of themselves as if they know some
'secret' us older folks are too dumb to figure out. Virginia Beach hs
been lucky. Overall, we didn't take nearly the hits many other places
did.

Our Governor is pretty straight forward on it. He's an actual MD if
you didn't know.

He's not draconian. He kept bits open as much as possible. He opened
outside dining right away. Technically it never closed but in winter
it was too hard on people. Pickup and delivery was encouraged and most
businesses weathered it. Grocery stores setup free deliveries (or
reduced price to almost nothing). Everyone seemed to have free curb
pickup.

General prevailing opinion here is if you don't want to wear a mask,
don't go inside. They still have free curb pickup.

trader_4 wrote:

On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 1:55:37 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:55:49 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 12:04:00 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Sun, 9 May 2021 11:54:38 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:
On 5/9/2021 10:40 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 8 May 2021 23:16:32 -0400, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:


India is FUD and has nothing to do with our situation.
What is the vaccination rate in India?
What are the living conditions?
Poverty rate?
Quality of medical care?


The situation in India show that what we did works. Florida
has opened up but they also took precautions and vaccinated
a lot of people to get a jump on it. As a country, we are
far better off than India with availability.

If you want Darin to take over why not stop all childhood
vaccinations and see of Polio, smallpox and the like comes
back. Measles is increasing now that there are a lot of
anti-vaxxers.

How did you make the leap from me saying people who are not
willing to take the shot are on their own to making me an
anti vaxxer? It seems like reading is not your long suit.

I did not point you out as an anti-vaxxer so I guess reading
comprehension is not your long suit.
Then what the **** was this all about
"If you want Darin to take over why not stop all childhood
vaccinations and see of Polio, smallpox and the like comes back.
Measles is increasing now that there are a lot of anti-vaxxers".
There are many people refusing the
vaccine, not just covid but all. The decrease in cases is
showing it works.
The decrease may be due to the vaccine or it may just be due to
more people who have acquired immunity, we really don't know

Yes we do, it's both. And it's documented that far more people
have achieved immunity in the past 4 months from the vaccines.


but it is
clear this runs in cycles. We have had spikes and lulls in the
infections since this started.
Nobody has even come close to associating that with masks and
lockdowns.

Actually there is a good association, for those willing to look.
Show me. Real data, not just opinions.

The places with mandatory mask mandates and lockdowns did as badly
as those without and some were far worse..

What's the point? For example it's been explained to you many times
over many months why it's still important that masks be required in
Walmart. Yet you just asked why again.

Wishful thinking. He wants very badly to believe it's all a hoax.
Those states with no mask mandates, did *worse by far* overall than
those that did.

trader_4 wrote:

..

600K dead here, get real. So sad that crazy Republicans have chosen
to make masks and vaccines another nasty, divisive **** show.
Apparently they want to lose even more. It's like watching a house
burn down, with the people inside denying it's on fire, refusing to
put the fire out or leave the house, instead believing crazy
conspiracy theories.

Cut with the divisive talk. Thats part of the problem. Stop blaming
it on a party affilication as if that were the only factor and all
people of a group you don't affiliate with are stupid. It's the sort
of thing that has to be affected by individual people.

I don't call either party stupid and as far as divisive, they are
equally to blame.

wrote:

On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:26:16 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 4:13:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying
even if you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick,
but I don't know how much. I haven't seen details about that,
except I just read the paragraph above.
When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

When are you going to admit that we have 600K dead Americans from
Covid? That we have many times that hospitalized, many for weeks,
people with long Covid, people that are permanently damaged, people
who needed lung transplants? That Covid is not just the flu.
There is no hysteria, but there is a lot of Covid denial.

Covid was bad but our response may have been worse in the long run.
We are not even that sure most of the measures that crushed our
economy were even effective. After all 600,000 died anyway. The places
with the tightest restrictions did as poorly (or worse) than the ones
that ran loose.

That's because the restrictions went in as it got bad and it was too
late for NY city.

Roger Blake wrote:

On 2021-05-09, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
When you make stupid statements you lose. Taking precautions is
not medical advice it is common sense. Washing your hands is at the
same level as looking before crossing the street.

You did not answer the questions. Holding yourself out as a doctor and
recommending that I take specific medication or medications for which
the manufacturer has no financial liability is not the same thing
at all as advice to "wash your hands" or "look before crossing the
street" except perhaps to a closed-minded propagandist or the addled
mind of a blithering idiot.

So I repeat the questions. Please answer. Any more evasive bull****
marks you as an unthinking propagandist, to be kind.

Are you holding yourself out as a doctor and giving me medical advice
to take an experimental vaccine which does not have FDA approval, has
not had long-term testing, and for which the manufacturer cannot
be held liable if it damages me? Having given me this medical advice,
will YOU agree to be held financially liable if I do as you say and
it causes me harm?

Only simple "yes" or "no" answers are required.

Cut the crap dude.

On Mon, 10 May 2021 17:34:50 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2021 12:03:57 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2021 12:31:47 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2021 01:10:36 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sat, 08 May 2021 20:37:56 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 8 May 2021 18:50:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/8/2021 4:12 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying even if
you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick, but I don't
know how much. I haven't seen details about that, except I just read the
paragraph above.

When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

If you are just going to get a little cold that you get over why are
we still being silly about this? The vaccine is available for anyone
who wants it and if they are waiting for Jesus to tell them to get it
they will meet him soon enough .... or not. We still don't have any
good numbers about how many people have acquired immunity from having
a mild case and getting over it. It is very likely they never got
tested so they are not in the stats.
Fauci predicted that might be 80% of those infected.


So what is happening in India is just hysteria? Seems sensible to take
some precautions until we know what is happening. Seems to be on the
right path but could stall if people refuse vaccinations.

At a certain point we can let Darwin decide.

There it is, the "Fretwell Let'r Rip Doctrine" that you've been pushing
since the beginning of this pandemic, over a year ago now. Have you really
learned nothing over the past year? Nothing at all?
Some are incapable of learning anything. "don't confuse me with facts
- my mind (such as it is) is already made up"

I'm no expert in child development, but some people, such as Fretwell and
Muggles, seem to have taken the approach of "I learned everything I need to
know by the time I finished 3rd grade." In Fretwell's case, new or evolving
information seems to completely throw him for a loop.
Third grade???
More like kindergarten

Canadian kindergarten is probably similar to our 3rd grade. When do
Canadian students stop eating paste? Here it's partway through 4th grade,
roughly.

On Mon, 10 May 2021 21:10:26 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2021 17:34:50 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2021 12:03:57 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2021 12:31:47 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2021 01:10:36 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sat, 08 May 2021 20:37:56 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 8 May 2021 18:50:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/8/2021 4:12 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying even if
you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick, but I don't
know how much. I haven't seen details about that, except I just read the
paragraph above.

When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

If you are just going to get a little cold that you get over why are
we still being silly about this? The vaccine is available for anyone
who wants it and if they are waiting for Jesus to tell them to get it
they will meet him soon enough .... or not. We still don't have any
good numbers about how many people have acquired immunity from having
a mild case and getting over it. It is very likely they never got
tested so they are not in the stats.
Fauci predicted that might be 80% of those infected.


So what is happening in India is just hysteria? Seems sensible to take
some precautions until we know what is happening. Seems to be on the
right path but could stall if people refuse vaccinations.

At a certain point we can let Darwin decide.

There it is, the "Fretwell Let'r Rip Doctrine" that you've been pushing
since the beginning of this pandemic, over a year ago now. Have you really
learned nothing over the past year? Nothing at all?
Some are incapable of learning anything. "don't confuse me with facts
- my mind (such as it is) is already made up"

I'm no expert in child development, but some people, such as Fretwell and
Muggles, seem to have taken the approach of "I learned everything I need to
know by the time I finished 3rd grade." In Fretwell's case, new or evolving
information seems to completely throw him for a loop.
Third grade???
More like kindergarten

Canadian kindergarten is probably similar to our 3rd grade. When do
Canadian students stop eating paste? Here it's partway through 4th grade,
roughly.
Generally by about JK (age 3 or 4)

On 5/10/2021 7:42 AM, Larry wrote:
On 5/10/21 10:08 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/10/2021 6:36 AM, Larry wrote:
On 5/10/21 2:03 AM, Jim Joyce wrote:
Did you forget that when the Biden administration took office in
January
they inherited no national vaccine program, no plan, not even an
outline
for a plan. Zero, nada, zilch. Did you forget that?


President Trump's team did all the heavy lifting before Bribem's
thugs stole the election.
Obviously you get your newsaganda from CNN/ABC/CBS/NBC and the
once-great Google.

Still waiting for Rudy to bring the evidence to court for that
election thing.Â* Should be soon huh?Â* Think it will be this week?


Patience grasshopper!Â* The democrats and the RINOcrats are busy
obstructing justice.



While you and your Repub cohorts are doing everything they can to
destroy democracy in the USA.

On 5/9/2021 2:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/9/2021 5:29 PM, Hawk wrote:


That 3rd world cesspool only has half the deaths that covid has
caused in the USA.


That 3rd world country doesn't keep tabs on the covid deaths let alone
any deaths. It's 3rd world...that means they don't have a
sophisticated system to calculate nor do they even care.

They do track but probably under count quite a bit

https://www.dw.com/en/india-coronavi...oll/a-57338733

As do we. I recently heard estimates of 900,000 dead from covid here.

On Mon, 10 May 2021 01:03:26 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sun, 09 May 2021 13:52:46 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:51:35 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 10:41:03 AM UTC-4, wrote:

The US does not restrict movement between states and we have never
been able to. Even when we tried last spring, people said "**** you,
I'm going". There wasn't really anything the government could do about
it. The government was also not able to affect any real quarantines,
not even in those socialist states with oppressive governments.


That's largely because we had a feckless president

The feckless president now or then?

The clue is contained within the meaning of the word "had". With that in
mind, why don't you take another run at it?

Nothing of substance has changed except the vaccine and that was well
underway before Trump left ... or did you forget that.

Did you forget that when the Biden administration took office in January
they inherited no national vaccine program, no plan, not even an outline
for a plan. Zero, nada, zilch. Did you forget that?

I remember my governor announcing a plan, in mid January, using Publix
first, then 5 other chains, before the vaccine came out of the pipe.
He got **** for it.

In the end he was right. Publix is still the most used commercial site
and that stuff is everywhere now.

On Mon, 10 May 2021 01:10:36 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sat, 08 May 2021 20:37:56 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 8 May 2021 18:50:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/8/2021 4:12 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying even if
you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick, but I don't
know how much. I haven't seen details about that, except I just read the
paragraph above.

When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

If you are just going to get a little cold that you get over why are
we still being silly about this? The vaccine is available for anyone
who wants it and if they are waiting for Jesus to tell them to get it
they will meet him soon enough .... or not. We still don't have any
good numbers about how many people have acquired immunity from having
a mild case and getting over it. It is very likely they never got
tested so they are not in the stats.
Fauci predicted that might be 80% of those infected.


So what is happening in India is just hysteria? Seems sensible to take
some precautions until we know what is happening. Seems to be on the
right path but could stall if people refuse vaccinations.

At a certain point we can let Darwin decide.

There it is, the "Fretwell Let'r Rip Doctrine" that you've been pushing
since the beginning of this pandemic, over a year ago now. Have you really
learned nothing over the past year? Nothing at all?

How long do you think we should be under someone's thumb about this?
You ****ers had a year to flatten the curve. We still played the mask
game even when we saw open states doing better than closed states. Now
we have the vaccine and vaccinations are reaching the saturation
point. Anyone willing to get one has them.
What is the end game? At a certain point we have to stop thinking
there is one more thing we should do before our life can go back to
normal.
You can stay home wearing your mask and not answering the door but
most of us think, once you are vaccinated and you know anyone else who
wants to be is, it is time for Dr Darwin to take over.

On Mon, 10 May 2021 06:46:33 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 1:11:58 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 9 May 2021 09:42:43 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:



The only thing we know that worked was if you lived on an island with
a very compliant population and strict immigration policies you could
keep it out.
So you're going to ban tourism too. I don't think the money-grubbing
DeSantis will go along with that. Probably not you either.

The rate of Corona in the Seychelles, an island country with the highest
vaccination rate in the world is higher than India's. Put that in your
pipe and smoke it.


You mean Fretwell's island protection thing doesn't work?

"highest vaccination rate in the world"

No that either means the vaccine doesn't work.
Or the story is over hyped ... like India.
It was Bob who pointed out India, a country with 5 times our
population had total deaths and infections half of ours.
(percent who died 0.017%)

On Mon, 10 May 2021 06:55:59 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 1:40:01 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:26:16 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 4:13:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying even if
you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick, but I don't
know how much. I haven't seen details about that, except I just read the
paragraph above.
When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

When are you going to admit that we have 600K dead Americans from Covid?
That we have many times that hospitalized, many for weeks, people with long
Covid, people that are permanently damaged, people who needed lung transplants?
That Covid is not just the flu. There is no hysteria, but there is a lot of Covid
denial.
Covid was bad but our response may have been worse in the long run.
We are not even that sure most of the measures that crushed our
economy were even effective. After all 600,000 died anyway.

And how many would have died if we did nothing? Good grief.


The places
with the tightest restrictions did as poorly (or worse) than the ones
that ran loose.


That's mostly BS too. In NY, NJ, CT we were close to disaster. As soon as
restrictions were put in place last spring, the infection rate plummeted.
It remained low while restrictions were in place, as they started to come off,
it began increasing again. South Dakota was spared the initial infections
that hit us here, that came from Europe. The dopey governor there chose
total trumptard denial, refused to require masks and allowed Sturgis to be
held. It seemed inconceivable that anyone could be so stupid as to hold
a ten day drunken gathering of 200K people from all over the US, but that's
exactly what they did. It's obvious that spread disease. This isn't the
Middle Ages, we know what a virus is, we know the mechanisms by which it
spreads. And that reckless fool Noam provided the perfect environment.

Your states were locked down tight in February or March 2020.

On Mon, 10 May 2021 06:55:59 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 1:40:01 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:26:16 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 4:13:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying even if
you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick, but I don't
know how much. I haven't seen details about that, except I just read the
paragraph above.
When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

When are you going to admit that we have 600K dead Americans from Covid?
That we have many times that hospitalized, many for weeks, people with long
Covid, people that are permanently damaged, people who needed lung transplants?
That Covid is not just the flu. There is no hysteria, but there is a lot of Covid
denial.
Covid was bad but our response may have been worse in the long run.
We are not even that sure most of the measures that crushed our
economy were even effective. After all 600,000 died anyway.

And how many would have died if we did nothing? Good grief.


The places
with the tightest restrictions did as poorly (or worse) than the ones
that ran loose.


That's mostly BS too. In NY, NJ, CT we were close to disaster. As soon as
restrictions were put in place last spring, the infection rate plummeted.
It remained low while restrictions were in place, as they started to come off,
it began increasing again. South Dakota was spared the initial infections
that hit us here, that came from Europe. The dopey governor there chose
total trumptard denial, refused to require masks and allowed Sturgis to be
held. It seemed inconceivable that anyone could be so stupid as to hold
a ten day drunken gathering of 200K people from all over the US, but that's
exactly what they did. It's obvious that spread disease. This isn't the
Middle Ages, we know what a virus is, we know the mechanisms by which it
spreads. And that reckless fool Noam provided the perfect environment.

South Dakota got in trouble in packing plants (SE SD). What they did
in the other 90% of the state wasn't that significant.

On Mon, 10 May 2021 07:19:55 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 1:53:26 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:51:35 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 10:41:03 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 8 May 2021 23:16:32 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/8/2021 8:37 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 8 May 2021 18:50:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/8/2021 4:12 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying even if
you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick, but I don't
know how much. I haven't seen details about that, except I just read the
paragraph above.

When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

If you are just going to get a little cold that you get over why are
we still being silly about this? The vaccine is available for anyone
who wants it and if they are waiting for Jesus to tell them to get it
they will meet him soon enough .... or not. We still don't have any
good numbers about how many people have acquired immunity from having
a mild case and getting over it. It is very likely they never got
tested so they are not in the stats.
Fauci predicted that might be 80% of those infected.


So what is happening in India is just hysteria? Seems sensible to take
some precautions until we know what is happening. Seems to be on the
right path but could stall if people refuse vaccinations.

At a certain point we can let Darwin decide. The vaccine is out there,
they keep saying it works, at a certain point it is like wearing a
motorcycle helmet. If these people are willing to duck the protection
available, they deserve what they get.

The reality is the hysteria is not reflected in the results. Florida
is wide open with a very old population and a very high amount of
interstate visitors. We are not doing any worse than the states that
are younger, less tourism and strict lockdown policies.
It will be interesting to see what gets reported after all of this
shakes out and we can get an unbiased study about what worked and what
was just virtue signaling.
The only thing we know that worked was if you lived on an island with
a very compliant population and strict immigration policies you could
keep it out. This will be the real test of the vaccines since there
was virtually zero acquired immunity and the virus is still "novel" to
them.

India is FUD and has nothing to do with our situation.
What is the vaccination rate in India?
What are the living conditions?
Poverty rate?
Quality of medical care?


The situation in India show that what we did works. Florida has opened
up but they also took precautions and vaccinated a lot of people to get
a jump on it. As a country, we are far better off than India with
availability.

If you want Darin to take over why not stop all childhood vaccinations
and see of Polio, smallpox and the like comes back. Measles is
increasing now that there are a lot of anti-vaxxers.

How did you make the leap from me saying people who are not willing to
take the shot are on their own to making me an anti vaxxer?
It seems like reading is not your long suit.
Oh, you said it is a little cold. Shame about those 600,000 that did
not use tissues.
The world is a cold place and I am still not convinced a lot of what
we did had any major effect at all. The places with the strongest
mandates seemed to have the worst results.
Rod and Trader jumping in with anecdotes about islands and autocratic
countries that were capable of shutting down their borders and
restrict in country travel as an example is disingenuous too.


You're the one with some peculiar fetish about "islands". The rest of us
know that it's not 1850 anymore, we're not relying on ships for travel and
islands like Taiwan and Australia are no more or less accessible to the rest
of the world than the USA.

Airports are easier to lock down than ship docks but we never had the
ability to do either.

Funny thing then that Trump did institute some travel bans. Hell, that POS
even called for a ban on all Muslims entering the USA before Covid even
existed.

Trump's ban ideas were never going to happen and your people were
assuring that. DeSantis also was not able to quarantine the cruise
ship passengers because of complaints by the democrats is Broward
County.
You said it, "they just want to go home" even if it was in New York.

He tried roadblocks, the public said no.


That pesky constitution and you even admitted we
can't keep people from "going home".

What I spoke about was when Trump wanted to leave those cruise
ship passengers to die at sea, so that the Covid numbers didn't go up,
which he thought would look bad for him. And the "going home" was
after TESTING and QUARANTINING those infected for a couple weeks.
Only then did they go home.


Bull****. They got off the ship promising they would quarantine and
they immediately got in their cars or took a limo to the airport.
I told you that at the time and you said "they just want to go home".

I am not sure where you got the idea they quarantined but there are
not that many hotels in Ft Lauderdale and they are full at that time
of year.


Home was New York, How did that work out?

It's widely accepted that NY was infected by people traveling before any
Covid restrictions were put in place. Those people were not just some people
going home, they were all kinds of international travelers, eg tourists,
people on business, etc.

The first rabbi that infected Westchester county was freely moving
around as were some others but before the time you were in trouble we
had already had that cruise ship fiasco. My old work buddy that I play
golf with was on a ship at that time. I know how it went.

On Mon, 10 May 2021 07:28:12 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 2:05:49 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 09 May 2021 13:05:37 -0400, micky
wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 08 May 2021 20:37:56 -0400,
wrote:

On Sat, 8 May 2021 18:50:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/8/2021 4:12 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying even if
you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick, but I don't
know how much. I haven't seen details about that, except I just read the
paragraph above.

When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

If you are just going to get a little cold that you get over why are
we still being silly about this? The vaccine is available for anyone
who wants it and if they are waiting for Jesus to tell them to get it
they will meet him soon enough .... or not. We still don't have any
good numbers about how many people have acquired immunity from having
a mild case and getting over it. It is very likely they never got
tested so they are not in the stats.
Fauci predicted that might be 80% of those infected.


So what is happening in India is just hysteria? Seems sensible to take
some precautions until we know what is happening. Seems to be on the
right path but could stall if people refuse vaccinations.

At a certain point we can let Darwin decide. The vaccine is out there,
they keep saying it works, at a certain point it is like wearing a
motorcycle helmet. If these people are willing to duck the protection
available, they deserve what they get.

So everyone in your family has been fully vaccinated?

Yes

All your friends?

Yes
And if not, and someone dies it's his fault?
Yes, if they chose not to avail themselves of the vaccine. It is just
walk in and get your shot here. There is no excuse not to, assuming
it is as safe as you folks say.
That's how you regard your
family and friends?
Not relevant is it?

And you missed the entire point of my OP. Unvaccinated people endanger
the rest of us.
OK then you shouldn't care so much if they get sick and die then
should you. You think they are a menace.
The reality is the hysteria is not reflected in the results. Florida

Oh, yes, you scientific sage. There will be no more outbreaks because
50% of Florida is vaccinated!
I doubt we will ever get anywhere close to 100% or even 80% but you
think they are all going to get sick and die so it is a self limiting
problem.
OTOH we still do not have a clue how many people have acquired
immunity from a mild case that cured "spontaneously" as Fauci
describes it and he said that might be 80% of the people who got
infected.

Do you understand the meaning of 94% effective? How 94 differs from
100? What per CENT means?
I also know that is just a conservative guess and the real number is
now being hyped as higher (more effective). You folks really need to
make up your mind. Is the vaccine the silver bullet or is it just a
placebo?
You seem to change your opinion depending on the conversation.

No, Micky's right. You have a comprehension problem. You can't deal
with situations where something is 90%, 95% effective. You start making
posts here, claiming that if something isn't 100%, then it must be no good.

I am saying it is good enough, let's go.

I seem to trust it more than you.
You are the one saying it is not 100% so we can't restart our lives
yet.

On Tue, 11 May 2021 00:22:43 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2021 01:03:26 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sun, 09 May 2021 13:52:46 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:51:35 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 10:41:03 AM UTC-4, wrote:

The US does not restrict movement between states and we have never
been able to. Even when we tried last spring, people said "**** you,
I'm going". There wasn't really anything the government could do about
it. The government was also not able to affect any real quarantines,
not even in those socialist states with oppressive governments.


That's largely because we had a feckless president

The feckless president now or then?

The clue is contained within the meaning of the word "had". With that in
mind, why don't you take another run at it?

Nothing of substance has changed except the vaccine and that was well
underway before Trump left ... or did you forget that.

Did you forget that when the Biden administration took office in January
they inherited no national vaccine program, no plan, not even an outline
for a plan. Zero, nada, zilch. Did you forget that?

I remember my governor snip

Yet another unannounced move of the goalposts. We weren't talking about
your idiot Governor. You're obviously unable to back up your assertion
above. Thanks for playing.

On Tue, 11 May 2021 00:31:44 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2021 01:10:36 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sat, 08 May 2021 20:37:56 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 8 May 2021 18:50:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/8/2021 4:12 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying even if
you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick, but I don't
know how much. I haven't seen details about that, except I just read the
paragraph above.

When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

If you are just going to get a little cold that you get over why are
we still being silly about this? The vaccine is available for anyone
who wants it and if they are waiting for Jesus to tell them to get it
they will meet him soon enough .... or not. We still don't have any
good numbers about how many people have acquired immunity from having
a mild case and getting over it. It is very likely they never got
tested so they are not in the stats.
Fauci predicted that might be 80% of those infected.


So what is happening in India is just hysteria? Seems sensible to take
some precautions until we know what is happening. Seems to be on the
right path but could stall if people refuse vaccinations.

At a certain point we can let Darwin decide.

There it is, the "Fretwell Let'r Rip Doctrine" that you've been pushing
since the beginning of this pandemic, over a year ago now. Have you really
learned nothing over the past year? Nothing at all?

How long do you think we should be under someone's thumb about this?

That's a stupid question. Are you now, or have you been, under someone's
thumb? If so, in what way?

How did a novel coronavirus become a political thing? (That's a trick
question. We all know how that happened.) Do you think the virus can tell
the difference between people who take it seriously and want to limit the
suffering and death, versus Trump supporters like you who are happy to let
it run wild?

What is the end game?

I was talking to a couple of neighbor kids the other day. They're home
schooled and they know much more about the pandemic, including the
so-called end game, than you do. Good for them, I guess, but they sure make
you look bad in comparison.

On Mon, 10 May 2021 23:31:35 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2021 21:10:26 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2021 17:34:50 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2021 12:03:57 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2021 12:31:47 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2021 01:10:36 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:
I'm no expert in child development, but some people, such as Fretwell and
Muggles, seem to have taken the approach of "I learned everything I need to
know by the time I finished 3rd grade." In Fretwell's case, new or evolving
information seems to completely throw him for a loop.
Third grade???
More like kindergarten

Canadian kindergarten is probably similar to our 3rd grade. When do
Canadian students stop eating paste? Here it's partway through 4th grade,
roughly.
Generally by about JK (age 3 or 4)

You win. LOL

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 May 2021 01:10:36 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sat, 08 May 2021 20:37:56 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 8 May 2021 18:50:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/8/2021 4:12 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying even if
you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick, but I don't
know how much. I haven't seen details about that, except I just read
the
paragraph above.

When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

If you are just going to get a little cold that you get over why are
we still being silly about this? The vaccine is available for anyone
who wants it and if they are waiting for Jesus to tell them to get it
they will meet him soon enough .... or not. We still don't have any
good numbers about how many people have acquired immunity from having
a mild case and getting over it. It is very likely they never got
tested so they are not in the stats.
Fauci predicted that might be 80% of those infected.


So what is happening in India is just hysteria? Seems sensible to take
some precautions until we know what is happening. Seems to be on the
right path but could stall if people refuse vaccinations.

At a certain point we can let Darwin decide.

There it is, the "Fretwell Let'r Rip Doctrine" that you've been pushing
since the beginning of this pandemic, over a year ago now. Have you really
learned nothing over the past year? Nothing at all?

How long do you think we should be under someone's thumb about this?

No one is under anyone's thumb. Some jurisdictions have forced
****wits like you to do what makes sense during a pandemic
because lots of ****wits like you wont even take the most
sensible precautions unless they are forced to do that.

And that needs to continue until the virus is no longer a problem.

You ****ers had a year to flatten the curve.

It hasn't been about flattening the curve for most of a year now.

We still played the mask game

It is no game.

even when we saw open states doing better than closed states.

More utterly mindless bull**** and lies. The states that
closed did so because they had much more of a virus
problem than the states that didn't do that.

Now we have the vaccine and vaccinations
are reaching the saturation point.

Bull**** they are.

Anyone willing to get one has them.

More utterly mindless bull**** with only 50% vaccinated and
when some are waiting to see if there are significant numbers
of bad outcomes with the current very new vaccines which
use a novel technique to produce very viable vaccines.

What is the end game?

Enough get vaccinated or infected to
see the virus no longer a problem.

At a certain point we have to stop thinking there is one more
thing we should do before our life can go back to normal.

Yes, and that's enough vaccinated or infected
to see the virus no longer a problem.

You can stay home wearing your mask and not answering the door
but most of us think, once you are vaccinated and you know anyone
else who wants to be is, it is time for Dr Darwin to take over.

There is no Darwin involved because this virus mostly
kills those who are well past reproducing, ****wit.

And it isnt about stay home wearing your mask and not
answering the door its actually about getting vaccinated.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 May 2021 06:46:33 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 1:11:58 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 9 May 2021 09:42:43 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:



The only thing we know that worked was if you lived on an island with
a very compliant population and strict immigration policies you could
keep it out.
So you're going to ban tourism too. I don't think the money-grubbing
DeSantis will go along with that. Probably not you either.

The rate of Corona in the Seychelles, an island country with the highest
vaccination rate in the world is higher than India's. Put that in your
pipe and smoke it.


You mean Fretwell's island protection thing doesn't work?

"highest vaccination rate in the world"

Bull**** it is.

No that either means the vaccine doesn't work.

Bull**** it does with only 50% vaccinated.

Or the story is over hyped ... like India.

More utterly mindless bull****, your trademark.

It was Bob who pointed out India, a country with 5 times
our poplation had total deaths and infections half of ours.

Their stats are useless. They don't even bother to record most
deaths from any cause, or even test many for the virus either.

(percent who died 0.017%)

Just a number straight from someone's arse
and you are too stupid to even notice.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 10 May 2021 06:55:59 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 1:40:01 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:26:16 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 4:13:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying even
if
you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick, but I don't
know how much. I haven't seen details about that, except I just read
the
paragraph above.
When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

When are you going to admit that we have 600K dead Americans from
Covid?
That we have many times that hospitalized, many for weeks, people with
long
Covid, people that are permanently damaged, people who needed lung
transplants?
That Covid is not just the flu. There is no hysteria, but there is a
lot of Covid
denial.
Covid was bad but our response may have been worse in the long run.
We are not even that sure most of the measures that crushed our
economy were even effective. After all 600,000 died anyway.

And how many would have died if we did nothing? Good grief.


The places
with the tightest restrictions did as poorly (or worse) than the ones
that ran loose.


That's mostly BS too. In NY, NJ, CT we were close to disaster. As soon
as
restrictions were put in place last spring, the infection rate plummeted.
It remained low while restrictions were in place, as they started to come
off,
it began increasing again. South Dakota was spared the initial
infections
that hit us here, that came from Europe. The dopey governor there chose
total trumptard denial, refused to require masks and allowed Sturgis to be
held. It seemed inconceivable that anyone could be so stupid as to hold
a ten day drunken gathering of 200K people from all over the US, but
that's
exactly what they did. It's obvious that spread disease. This isn't the
Middle Ages, we know what a virus is, we know the mechanisms by which it
spreads. And that reckless fool Noam provided the perfect environment.

Your states were locked down tight

No US jurisdiction ever was.

in February or March 2020.

On Tue, 11 May 2021 17:10:43 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile cretin's latest troll**** unread

On Tue, 11 May 2021 17:07:16 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH troll**** unread

--
about senile Rot Speed:
"This is like having a conversation with someone with brain damage."
MID:

On Tue, 11 May 2021 17:12:01 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

FLUSH the trolling senile pest's latest troll**** unread

--
"Who or What is Rod Speed?

Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed
is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can
enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard
man" on the InterNet."
https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/r...d-faq.2973853/

On Tue, 11 May 2021 00:31:05 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Tue, 11 May 2021 00:31:44 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2021 01:10:36 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:

On Sat, 08 May 2021 20:37:56 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 8 May 2021 18:50:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/8/2021 4:12 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying even if
you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick, but I don't
know how much. I haven't seen details about that, except I just read the
paragraph above.

When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

If you are just going to get a little cold that you get over why are
we still being silly about this? The vaccine is available for anyone
who wants it and if they are waiting for Jesus to tell them to get it
they will meet him soon enough .... or not. We still don't have any
good numbers about how many people have acquired immunity from having
a mild case and getting over it. It is very likely they never got
tested so they are not in the stats.
Fauci predicted that might be 80% of those infected.


So what is happening in India is just hysteria? Seems sensible to take
some precautions until we know what is happening. Seems to be on the
right path but could stall if people refuse vaccinations.

At a certain point we can let Darwin decide.

There it is, the "Fretwell Let'r Rip Doctrine" that you've been pushing
since the beginning of this pandemic, over a year ago now. Have you really
learned nothing over the past year? Nothing at all?

How long do you think we should be under someone's thumb about this?

That's a stupid question. Are you now, or have you been, under someone's
thumb? If so, in what way?

How did a novel coronavirus become a political thing? (That's a trick
question. We all know how that happened.) Do you think the virus can tell
the difference between people who take it seriously and want to limit the
suffering and death, versus Trump supporters like you who are happy to let
it run wild?

What is the end game?

I was talking to a couple of neighbor kids the other day. They're home
schooled and they know much more about the pandemic, including the
so-called end game, than you do. Good for them, I guess, but they sure make
you look bad in comparison.
My cats make him look bad in comparrison - and they died 8 and 10
years ago - - -

On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 11:49:40 AM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
On 5/10/2021 9:55 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 1:40:01 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:26:16 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 4:13:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying even if
you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick, but I don't
know how much. I haven't seen details about that, except I just read the
paragraph above.
When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

When are you going to admit that we have 600K dead Americans from Covid?
That we have many times that hospitalized, many for weeks, people with long
Covid, people that are permanently damaged, people who needed lung transplants?
That Covid is not just the flu. There is no hysteria, but there is a lot of Covid
denial.
Covid was bad but our response may have been worse in the long run.
We are not even that sure most of the measures that crushed our
economy were even effective. After all 600,000 died anyway.

And how many would have died if we did nothing? Good grief.


The places
with the tightest restrictions did as poorly (or worse) than the ones
that ran loose.


That's mostly BS too. In NY, NJ, CT we were close to disaster. As soon as
restrictions were put in place last spring, the infection rate plummeted.
It remained low while restrictions were in place, as they started to come off,
it began increasing again. South Dakota was spared the initial infections
that hit us here, that came from Europe. The dopey governor there chose
total trumptard denial, refused to require masks and allowed Sturgis to be
held. It seemed inconceivable that anyone could be so stupid as to hold
a ten day drunken gathering of 200K people from all over the US, but that's
exactly what they did. It's obvious that spread disease. This isn't the
Middle Ages, we know what a virus is, we know the mechanisms by which it
spreads. And that reckless fool Noam provided the perfect environment.

Can't you ever STFU and quit politicizing everything?

ROFL. Your party lead by Trump politicized masks, social distancing and
even vaccines. Instead of cooperating to save lives, to save America,
they are still whining away, spreading lies. Just look at all the lunatics
posting here. But I should shut up?

On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 12:31:24 PM UTC-4, Jim Joyce wrote:
On Mon, 10 May 2021 08:45:19 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:
On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 10:08:15 AM UTC-4, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 5/10/2021 6:36 AM, Larry wrote:
On 5/10/21 2:03 AM, Jim Joyce wrote:
Did you forget that when the Biden administration took office in January
they inherited no national vaccine program, no plan, not even an outline
for a plan. Zero, nada, zilch. Did you forget that?


President Trump's team did all the heavy lifting before Bribem's thugs
stole the election.
Obviously you get your newsaganda from CNN/ABC/CBS/NBC and the
once-great Google.
Still waiting for Rudy to bring the evidence to court for that election
thing. Should be soon huh? Think it will be this week?

I saw a story recently that Rudy has cut back on his staff. It said that while
up until recently Rudy traveled with a staff of five or so, now it's like one
driver. Other stories say that while Trump has raised hundreds of millions
to pay for he stolen election BS or to be used by Trump's PAC, he has told
his minions not to give any to Rudy. I think Rudy, Powell and Mr. Pillowhead
are in deep doo doo.
Of the three, it seems like Rudy might be in worse shape than the others.
He has the Big Lie in common with the others, but he also seems to have
some shady things that apparently involved Ukraine.

Powell's "you're stupid if you believed me" defense might not work for
Rudy.

As for the Pillow guy, he's all in. He even countersued for $1.6B so we'll
see how that goes. I expect everyone to eventually settle for undisclosed
sums, but they'll have to publicly admit they were lying to support Trump.

I doubt that's going to happen. Would you settle if you're Dominion? I would
push for it to all be heard in court, for all to see what a sad sack of liars these
shysters are. The one case settled so far is by the Dominion exec, who sued
them personally. IDK why he settled, but his situation, his resources are likely
different than that of Dominion. The only way for the American people to see
that it was all lies is for it to go to trial and I hope it does.

I also disagree that Rudy is in the most peril. I would say Lindell is. Rudy has
probably squirreled away a lot of whatever money he has where it will be hard
to get to pay a judgment. Lindell has his pillow company that can't be
squirreled away somewhere. Even if it's possible to do through a trust or
similar, he's likely too stupid to do it, he believes he's going to win.



Remember when Fretwell claimed that 'Trump is gone, let's move on'? That
still cracks me up. Trump is the opposite of gone.

+1

Yes, we were correct, that Trump isn't going to sit by quietly like all the other former
presidents in our lifetimes and beyond. He's still leading the party that he lead
to destruction and Republicans are very eager for more. There are less of them
though. I just heard registered Republicans are down to 25%. I'm one that left.
I've said here before having been a registered Republican for decades, I was curious
to see if the RNC contacted me, asking why I withdrew my registration. If I was
running it, I would be monitoring who's leaving, how many and why. I haven't
heard a peep.

I just sent an email to my congressman, telling him that he should vote to support
Liz Cheney. He likely won't. He voted against impeaching Trump, twice and has
been totally MIA through all of Trump's lies and misdeeds. He;s still acceptable to
the Republicans, he's one of the silent ones. I wonder when they will start to purge
Republicans like him too, when being silent isn't enough, where you have to actively
show your obedience to Trump and lie for him.

On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 5:22:50 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 09 May 2021 13:05:37 -0400, micky posted for all of us to digest...


In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 08 May 2021 20:37:56 -0400,
wrote:

On Sat, 8 May 2021 18:50:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/8/2021 4:12 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying even if
you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick, but I don't
know how much. I haven't seen details about that, except I just read the
paragraph above.

When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

If you are just going to get a little cold that you get over why are
we still being silly about this? The vaccine is available for anyone
who wants it and if they are waiting for Jesus to tell them to get it
they will meet him soon enough .... or not. We still don't have any
good numbers about how many people have acquired immunity from having
a mild case and getting over it. It is very likely they never got
tested so they are not in the stats.
Fauci predicted that might be 80% of those infected.


So what is happening in India is just hysteria? Seems sensible to take
some precautions until we know what is happening. Seems to be on the
right path but could stall if people refuse vaccinations.

At a certain point we can let Darwin decide. The vaccine is out there,
they keep saying it works, at a certain point it is like wearing a
motorcycle helmet. If these people are willing to duck the protection
available, they deserve what they get.

So everyone in your family has been fully vaccinated?

All your friends?

And if not, and someone dies it's his fault? That's how you regard your
family and friends?

And you missed the entire point of my OP. Unvaccinated people endanger
the rest of us.


The reality is the hysteria is not reflected in the results. Florida

Oh, yes, you scientific sage. There will be no more outbreaks because
50% of Florida is vaccinated!

Do you understand the meaning of 94% effective? How 94 differs from
100? What per CENT means?

DeSantis said some stupid stuff that made clear that he doesn't and I
think you don't either. You should retake 4th grade arithmetic.
(There may be some special program that will let you attend with 10-year
olds.)

I'm too disgusted to read the rest of your stuff.


is wide open with a very old population and a very high amount of
interstate visitors. We are not doing any worse than the states that
are younger, less tourism and strict lockdown policies.
It will be interesting to see what gets reported after all of this
shakes out and we can get an unbiased study about what worked and what
was just virtue signaling.
The only thing we know that worked was if you lived on an island with
a very compliant population and strict immigration policies you could
keep it out. This will be the real test of the vaccines since there
was virtually zero acquired immunity and the virus is still "novel" to
them.

India is FUD and has nothing to do with our situation.
What is the vaccination rate in India?
What are the living conditions?
Poverty rate?
Quality of medical care?
Well, what do you say about the regular flu vax? How about the pneumonia vax?
That's some leading killers there! Why don't you have them?

The flu and pneumonia aren't killing 600K people a year here, that's one
big, obvious reason. Also when's the last time you heard about a 30 year
old getting a lung transplant because of the flu?





The PA gov wants a 70% vax rate before he lifts all bans. Where did that come
from? You can't get that rate on the vax's named above.

We obviously could if people cooperated and got vaccinated. The big problem
is half of Republicans are refusing. Who would have thought Republicans could
turn a vaccine into another divisive **** show?




The posters here are hilarious; whatever suits their mind at a particular time
is posted-even if the exact opposite was posted 20 minutes ago.

Site us some examples of that.



Round and round
you go, same old same old. Like monkeys throwing **** at each other than
licking their hands for the peanuts. You bozos better get a real-life away from
this. You probably have to have a night-light on so the bogeyman doesn't get
you! You haven't done **** for society with all your bellyaching here. I risked
my life for nimrods like you but that's okay because I was helping people on
their worst days. Do you think people get up in the morning saying: I'll infect
somebody today, I'll get infected today, I'll die today, I'll get in a crash
and permanently change the life of a young child, I'll forget to turn off an
appliance and burn the house down?

No, of course not. They just do those things through ignorance and denial
of sound science.



No wonder the climate is changing with all
this yapping and no doing; the hot air. Save the environment just air fry your
tacos in front of your mouth.

Used to be when someone like you said that kind of thing, I would know that
you're not serious. But with the rise of Qanon, stolen election lies and all the
rest, now you may very well be serious. I'm sure if Trump made that claim
a lot of trumpets would believe it.




There are a few that this post doesn't apply to, but, the rest of you take a
look in the mirror and say to yourself; how do I make this country better?
Ranting just doesn't cut it!

Over & out


When did speaking out on important issues of the day cease to be a way to make
a country better? When Trump turned the GOP into a cult?


Tekkie

On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 7:02:30 PM UTC-4, cshenk wrote:
trader_4 wrote:

.

600K dead here, get real. So sad that crazy Republicans have chosen
to make masks and vaccines another nasty, divisive **** show.
Apparently they want to lose even more. It's like watching a house
burn down, with the people inside denying it's on fire, refusing to
put the fire out or leave the house, instead believing crazy
conspiracy theories.

Cut with the divisive talk. Thats part of the problem. Stop blaming
it on a party affilication as if that were the only factor and all
people of a group you don't affiliate with are stupid. It's the sort
of thing that has to be affected by individual people.

I don't call either party stupid and as far as divisive, they are
equally to blame.

I attribute the positions and the problems where they reside. Poll after poll shows
that Republicans are the ones that won't wear masks, that won't get vaccinated.
I didn't politicize masks and vaccines, the Republicans did. I wasn't the party holding
Trump death rallies, no masks, no social distancing. Just look at all the Covid denial
right here, the opposition to masks, to vaccines. If there are any Democrats, it's very
few. It's overwhelmingly the bunch that believe the election was stolen and all the
other modern GOP BS, now that it's become the cult of the lying orange buffoon.

On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 12:32:30 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 10 May 2021 01:10:36 -0500, Jim Joyce
wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 20:37:56 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 8 May 2021 18:50:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/8/2021 4:12 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying even if
you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick, but I don't
know how much. I haven't seen details about that, except I just read the
paragraph above.

When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

If you are just going to get a little cold that you get over why are
we still being silly about this? The vaccine is available for anyone
who wants it and if they are waiting for Jesus to tell them to get it
they will meet him soon enough .... or not. We still don't have any
good numbers about how many people have acquired immunity from having
a mild case and getting over it. It is very likely they never got
tested so they are not in the stats.
Fauci predicted that might be 80% of those infected.


So what is happening in India is just hysteria? Seems sensible to take
some precautions until we know what is happening. Seems to be on the
right path but could stall if people refuse vaccinations.

At a certain point we can let Darwin decide.

There it is, the "Fretwell Let'r Rip Doctrine" that you've been pushing
since the beginning of this pandemic, over a year ago now. Have you really
learned nothing over the past year? Nothing at all?
How long do you think we should be under someone's thumb about this?
You ****ers had a year to flatten the curve.

You ****ers for a year? Trump was president and in charge of the Covid response
for eleven months.



We still played the mask
game even when we saw open states doing better than closed states.

Except that they were not. South Dakota is a good example, that moron
GOP governor decided to go ahead and hold Sturgis, bring 200K drunk
bikers together in a small town. And even worse, no mandate for masks
or social distancing. SD went from having low Covid rate to being a
disaster and those bikers rode back across America, spreading it in
every bar, restaurant along the way.


Now
we have the vaccine and vaccinations are reaching the saturation
point. Anyone willing to get one has them.

That's not true yet either.


What is the end game?

Getting the rate of infection down to a low level, obviously.


At a certain point we have to stop thinking
there is one more thing we should do before our life can go back to
normal.
You can stay home wearing your mask and not answering the door but
most of us think, once you are vaccinated and you know anyone else who
wants to be is, it is time for Dr Darwin to take over.


You wanted the Darwin approach a year ago. If you want a return to normalcy
as fast as possible, the obvious path is more compliance, more vaccinations,
not the opposite. A big help in doing that would be for Trump to make a commerical
urging it. But being the feckless lying shyster, he won't. He'd rather see people
sick and dying that risk losing the support of some of his nutty base.

On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 12:46:53 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 10 May 2021 06:55:59 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 1:40:01 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:26:16 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 4:13:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying even if
you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick, but I don't
know how much. I haven't seen details about that, except I just read the
paragraph above.
When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

When are you going to admit that we have 600K dead Americans from Covid?
That we have many times that hospitalized, many for weeks, people with long
Covid, people that are permanently damaged, people who needed lung transplants?
That Covid is not just the flu. There is no hysteria, but there is a lot of Covid
denial.
Covid was bad but our response may have been worse in the long run.
We are not even that sure most of the measures that crushed our
economy were even effective. After all 600,000 died anyway.

And how many would have died if we did nothing? Good grief.


The places
with the tightest restrictions did as poorly (or worse) than the ones
that ran loose.


That's mostly BS too. In NY, NJ, CT we were close to disaster. As soon as
restrictions were put in place last spring, the infection rate plummeted.
It remained low while restrictions were in place, as they started to come off,
it began increasing again. South Dakota was spared the initial infections
that hit us here, that came from Europe. The dopey governor there chose
total trumptard denial, refused to require masks and allowed Sturgis to be
held. It seemed inconceivable that anyone could be so stupid as to hold
a ten day drunken gathering of 200K people from all over the US, but that's
exactly what they did. It's obvious that spread disease. This isn't the
Middle Ages, we know what a virus is, we know the mechanisms by which it
spreads. And that reckless fool Noam provided the perfect environment.

Your states were locked down tight in February or March 2020.

Wrong. Business closures and the like went into effect in late March. A few
weeks later Covid infections peaked and then began a rapid decline. Fits perfectly
with the measures working.

On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 12:48:33 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 10 May 2021 06:55:59 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 1:40:01 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:26:16 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 4:13:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying even if
you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick, but I don't
know how much. I haven't seen details about that, except I just read the
paragraph above.
When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

When are you going to admit that we have 600K dead Americans from Covid?
That we have many times that hospitalized, many for weeks, people with long
Covid, people that are permanently damaged, people who needed lung transplants?
That Covid is not just the flu. There is no hysteria, but there is a lot of Covid
denial.
Covid was bad but our response may have been worse in the long run.
We are not even that sure most of the measures that crushed our
economy were even effective. After all 600,000 died anyway.

And how many would have died if we did nothing? Good grief.


The places
with the tightest restrictions did as poorly (or worse) than the ones
that ran loose.


That's mostly BS too. In NY, NJ, CT we were close to disaster. As soon as
restrictions were put in place last spring, the infection rate plummeted.
It remained low while restrictions were in place, as they started to come off,
it began increasing again. South Dakota was spared the initial infections
that hit us here, that came from Europe. The dopey governor there chose
total trumptard denial, refused to require masks and allowed Sturgis to be
held. It seemed inconceivable that anyone could be so stupid as to hold
a ten day drunken gathering of 200K people from all over the US, but that's
exactly what they did. It's obvious that spread disease. This isn't the
Middle Ages, we know what a virus is, we know the mechanisms by which it
spreads. And that reckless fool Noam provided the perfect environment.
South Dakota got in trouble in packing plants (SE SD). What they did
in the other 90% of the state wasn't that significant.

That's a new low in Covid denial, science denial, even for you. You recognize
that Covid spread inside meat packing plants, but then say that holding the Sturgis biker
rally, 200K drunk bikers, packing bars, restaurants, rallies, crowds for ten days
wasn't significant. How is it that it spreads in plants, but not bars packed with
bikers? If anything, it's easier to spread in the bars, because those morons were
not wearing masks.

On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 1:05:06 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 10 May 2021 07:19:55 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 1:53:26 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:51:35 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 10:41:03 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 8 May 2021 23:16:32 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/8/2021 8:37 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 8 May 2021 18:50:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/8/2021 4:12 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying even if
you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick, but I don't
know how much. I haven't seen details about that, except I just read the
paragraph above.

When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

If you are just going to get a little cold that you get over why are
we still being silly about this? The vaccine is available for anyone
who wants it and if they are waiting for Jesus to tell them to get it
they will meet him soon enough .... or not. We still don't have any
good numbers about how many people have acquired immunity from having
a mild case and getting over it. It is very likely they never got
tested so they are not in the stats.
Fauci predicted that might be 80% of those infected.


So what is happening in India is just hysteria? Seems sensible to take
some precautions until we know what is happening. Seems to be on the
right path but could stall if people refuse vaccinations.

At a certain point we can let Darwin decide. The vaccine is out there,
they keep saying it works, at a certain point it is like wearing a
motorcycle helmet. If these people are willing to duck the protection
available, they deserve what they get.

The reality is the hysteria is not reflected in the results. Florida
is wide open with a very old population and a very high amount of
interstate visitors. We are not doing any worse than the states that
are younger, less tourism and strict lockdown policies.
It will be interesting to see what gets reported after all of this
shakes out and we can get an unbiased study about what worked and what
was just virtue signaling.
The only thing we know that worked was if you lived on an island with
a very compliant population and strict immigration policies you could
keep it out. This will be the real test of the vaccines since there
was virtually zero acquired immunity and the virus is still "novel" to
them.

India is FUD and has nothing to do with our situation.
What is the vaccination rate in India?
What are the living conditions?
Poverty rate?
Quality of medical care?


The situation in India show that what we did works. Florida has opened
up but they also took precautions and vaccinated a lot of people to get
a jump on it. As a country, we are far better off than India with
availability.

If you want Darin to take over why not stop all childhood vaccinations
and see of Polio, smallpox and the like comes back. Measles is
increasing now that there are a lot of anti-vaxxers.

How did you make the leap from me saying people who are not willing to
take the shot are on their own to making me an anti vaxxer?
It seems like reading is not your long suit.
Oh, you said it is a little cold. Shame about those 600,000 that did
not use tissues.
The world is a cold place and I am still not convinced a lot of what
we did had any major effect at all. The places with the strongest
mandates seemed to have the worst results.
Rod and Trader jumping in with anecdotes about islands and autocratic
countries that were capable of shutting down their borders and
restrict in country travel as an example is disingenuous too.


You're the one with some peculiar fetish about "islands". The rest of us
know that it's not 1850 anymore, we're not relying on ships for travel and
islands like Taiwan and Australia are no more or less accessible to the rest
of the world than the USA.

Airports are easier to lock down than ship docks but we never had the
ability to do either.

Funny thing then that Trump did institute some travel bans. Hell, that POS
even called for a ban on all Muslims entering the USA before Covid even
existed.

Trump's ban ideas were never going to happen

So Trump is lying, he didn't ban travel from China? And then Europe?


and your people were
assuring that.

What people are those?

DeSantis also was not able to quarantine the cruise
ship passengers because of complaints by the democrats is Broward
County.

I don't see why DeSantis would be listening to Democrats, especially when
he's already a big Covid denier himself. IDK what exactly was done with the
cruise ship passengers that finally were allowed to disembark in Florida.


You said it, "they just want to go home" even if it was in New York.

Please cite for us where I ever said that.




He tried roadblocks, the public said no.


That pesky constitution and you even admitted we
can't keep people from "going home".

What I spoke about was when Trump wanted to leave those cruise
ship passengers to die at sea, so that the Covid numbers didn't go up,
which he thought would look bad for him. And the "going home" was
after TESTING and QUARANTINING those infected for a couple weeks.
Only then did they go home.


Bull****. They got off the ship promising they would quarantine and
they immediately got in their cars or took a limo to the airport.

That's a lie. I remember the cruise ship passengers had to remain offshore
CA because even after deciding to allow them in, facilities and procedures
had to be put in place. When they got off they were tested and those that
were positive were taken to federal quarantine facilities, where they stayed
for a couple of weeks. The media widely reported it, they covered them being
there and eventually leaving. You really need to change your sources of info.


I told you that at the time and you said "they just want to go home".

Show us where I said that. I did say that they are not only human beings
that are sick and getting sicker, but most were American citizens and that Trump
was wrong to want to let them die at sea. I said they should be allowed in,
allowed to get medical care. I never said they should just be allowed in and
allowed to go home, wherever that is. That would have been very stupid.
I know that was not done in CA. If it was done in Florida, well knowing
DeSantis that's not a total surprise.




I am not sure where you got the idea they quarantined but there are
not that many hotels in Ft Lauderdale and they are full at that time
of year.

Go back and look at what I posted. I was speaking about California, which
was the first cruise boat crisis here. It's the one that Trump infamously said
to leave at sea, because he didn't want the Covid numbers to go up.





Home was New York, How did that work out?

It's widely accepted that NY was infected by people traveling before any
Covid restrictions were put in place. Those people were not just some people
going home, they were all kinds of international travelers, eg tourists,
people on business, etc.

The first rabbi that infected Westchester county was freely moving
around as were some others but before the time you were in trouble we
had already had that cruise ship fiasco. My old work buddy that I play
golf with was on a ship at that time. I know how it went.

That rabbi was in Florida right before he got sick.

On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 1:09:12 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 10 May 2021 07:28:12 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 2:05:49 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 09 May 2021 13:05:37 -0400, micky
wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 08 May 2021 20:37:56 -0400,
wrote:

On Sat, 8 May 2021 18:50:21 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 5/8/2021 4:12 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying even if
you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick, but I don't
know how much. I haven't seen details about that, except I just read the
paragraph above.

When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

If you are just going to get a little cold that you get over why are
we still being silly about this? The vaccine is available for anyone
who wants it and if they are waiting for Jesus to tell them to get it
they will meet him soon enough .... or not. We still don't have any
good numbers about how many people have acquired immunity from having
a mild case and getting over it. It is very likely they never got
tested so they are not in the stats.
Fauci predicted that might be 80% of those infected.


So what is happening in India is just hysteria? Seems sensible to take
some precautions until we know what is happening. Seems to be on the
right path but could stall if people refuse vaccinations.

At a certain point we can let Darwin decide. The vaccine is out there,
they keep saying it works, at a certain point it is like wearing a
motorcycle helmet. If these people are willing to duck the protection
available, they deserve what they get.

So everyone in your family has been fully vaccinated?

Yes

All your friends?

Yes
And if not, and someone dies it's his fault?
Yes, if they chose not to avail themselves of the vaccine. It is just
walk in and get your shot here. There is no excuse not to, assuming
it is as safe as you folks say.
That's how you regard your
family and friends?
Not relevant is it?

And you missed the entire point of my OP. Unvaccinated people endanger
the rest of us.
OK then you shouldn't care so much if they get sick and die then
should you. You think they are a menace.
The reality is the hysteria is not reflected in the results. Florida

Oh, yes, you scientific sage. There will be no more outbreaks because
50% of Florida is vaccinated!
I doubt we will ever get anywhere close to 100% or even 80% but you
think they are all going to get sick and die so it is a self limiting
problem.
OTOH we still do not have a clue how many people have acquired
immunity from a mild case that cured "spontaneously" as Fauci
describes it and he said that might be 80% of the people who got
infected.

Do you understand the meaning of 94% effective? How 94 differs from
100? What per CENT means?
I also know that is just a conservative guess and the real number is
now being hyped as higher (more effective). You folks really need to
make up your mind. Is the vaccine the silver bullet or is it just a
placebo?
You seem to change your opinion depending on the conversation.

No, Micky's right. You have a comprehension problem. You can't deal
with situations where something is 90%, 95% effective. You start making
posts here, claiming that if something isn't 100%, then it must be no good.

I am saying it is good enough, let's go.

I seem to trust it more than you.
You are the one saying it is not 100% so we can't restart our lives
yet.

There you go again. I did not say we can't restart our lives. In response to your
repeatedly asking why we still need to wear masks, I have explained that many
times, to no avail. And I have said that we need to get as many people vaccinated
as quickly as possible. How you turned that into saying we can't restart our lives
I have no idea.

On 5/11/2021 11:11 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Monday, May 10, 2021 at 11:49:40 AM UTC-4, Frank wrote:
On 5/10/2021 9:55 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, May 9, 2021 at 1:40:01 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 9 May 2021 09:26:16 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, May 8, 2021 at 4:13:14 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sat, 08 May 2021 14:22:58 -0400, micky
wrote:

**Apparently if vaccinated, there's almost no chance of dying even if
you're in the 6%, and on average you will get less sick, but I don't
know how much. I haven't seen details about that, except I just read the
paragraph above.
When are you folks going to admit we have fallen for hysteria?

When are you going to admit that we have 600K dead Americans from Covid?
That we have many times that hospitalized, many for weeks, people with long
Covid, people that are permanently damaged, people who needed lung transplants?
That Covid is not just the flu. There is no hysteria, but there is a lot of Covid
denial.
Covid was bad but our response may have been worse in the long run.
We are not even that sure most of the measures that crushed our
economy were even effective. After all 600,000 died anyway.

And how many would have died if we did nothing? Good grief.


The places
with the tightest restrictions did as poorly (or worse) than the ones
that ran loose.


That's mostly BS too. In NY, NJ, CT we were close to disaster. As soon as
restrictions were put in place last spring, the infection rate plummeted.
It remained low while restrictions were in place, as they started to come off,
it began increasing again. South Dakota was spared the initial infections
that hit us here, that came from Europe. The dopey governor there chose
total trumptard denial, refused to require masks and allowed Sturgis to be
held. It seemed inconceivable that anyone could be so stupid as to hold
a ten day drunken gathering of 200K people from all over the US, but that's
exactly what they did. It's obvious that spread disease. This isn't the
Middle Ages, we know what a virus is, we know the mechanisms by which it
spreads. And that reckless fool Noam provided the perfect environment.

Can't you ever STFU and quit politicizing everything?

ROFL. Your party lead by Trump politicized masks, social distancing and
even vaccines. Instead of cooperating to save lives, to save America,
they are still whining away, spreading lies. Just look at all the lunatics
posting here. But I should shut up?


People think you are stupid and you open your mouth and prove them correct.

On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 1:05:06 AM UTC-4, wrote:

Bull****. They got off the ship promising they would quarantine and
they immediately got in their cars or took a limo to the airport.
I told you that at the time and you said "they just want to go home".

I am not sure where you got the idea they quarantined but there are
not that many hotels in Ft Lauderdale and they are full at that time
of year.


Sorry, I missed responding to that gem in my other post, so I'll do it here.
It must come as a shock to most Americans and surely to Florida's tourism
board that the state doesn't have enough hotels to be able to house the
small fraction of passengers from one cruise ship that were Covid positive.
And it was the worst pandemic in a hundred years. Apparently CA and
the feds didn't have that problem, they managed to test and quarantine the
passengers from the infected cruise ship that made port there. They had
to go against Trump to do it. He wanted to leave them at sea to die so that
his Covid number didn't go up.

trader_4 writes:
On Tuesday, May 11, 2021 at 1:09:12 AM UTC-4, wrote:


I seem to trust it more than you.
You are the one saying it is not 100% so we can't restart our lives
yet.

There you go again. I did not say we can't restart our lives. In response to your
repeatedly asking why we still need to wear masks, I have explained that many
times, to no avail. And I have said that we need to get as many people vaccinated
as quickly as possible. How you turned that into saying we can't restart our lives
I have no idea.

His whole thesis, that wearing a mask changes anything substantial about how one
lives, is frankly stupid. Wearing a mask is certainly not a hardship,
nor is it expensive, nor does it mean ones life "stops" in any way,
shape or form.

And the more rational portions of the country, which frankly tend to lean
more towards the left of center politically, have been doing rather well
recently, even with everyone wearing masks. The SF Bay area leads the
pack in this regard.

And, since the goal of masks was to flatten the curve, and indeed, the
curve was subtantially flattened due to the use of masks, social distancing
and judicious restrictions on large gatherings, one can only conclude
that masks were a successful technique used to address the worst pandemic
in over a century.

As more people realize that the anti-maskers were, as usual, wrong, we also
see the innoculation rates increasing leading towards a period of time when
the remaining restrictions on gatherings are starting to be relaxed, including
cruise ships and amusement parks - someone visiting disneyland today has a
far better experience than the same person would have when visiting in summer
2019, for example (since they can't overload the park with four-hour long
lines for the more popular rides).

It worked, despite the "Florida Man".

Frank "frank writes:


People think you are stupid and you open your mouth and prove them correct.

P. K. B. In spades.

On 5/11/2021 1:14 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
P. K. B.

Gibberish.