A couple months ago.. during debate on portable power generators, one
poster stated if I remeber correctly that majority of portable
generators produced modified sine wave power, compairable to quality
of power from cheap inverter ( bad for sensitive electronics)

1. Is this true? IIRC it was one poster who was stating this..

2. If this is true.. what do you look for when buying a generator
that delivers "quality" power that won't fry electronics? I have not
seen any stickers on units for sale that say they're modified sine
wave..
Thanks
(tropical storm/ hurricane season is here!)

Chuck
Mu2

You have it all wrong. Generators produce a real sine wave. However...
Inexpensive generators are usually not voltage regulated. There are two
consequences of this; they can wildly fluctuate voltage as the load changes,
and they are usually very noisy (both is waveform and sound.) Either one
can damage sensitive devices.
Six years ago we had a major wind storm that left a few hundred thousand
people without power for up to a week. I know of 5 furnaces that were burnt
out by unregulated generators, but there were thousands of unregulated
generators powering furnaces. So your odds are good, but the price for
being one of the losers is pretty high. Do you feel lucky? Personally I
prefer a good generator; they are safer, quieter, and generally use less
gas. Those are all good things that justify their price.

Opps I think I may have done a reply by email..

Ok,, do any openly state if they have closely regulated voltage?

Thanks..
Chuck

, 11 Aug 2004 21:04:10 GMT, "toller" wrote:

You have it all wrong. Generators produce a real sine wave. However...
Inexpensive generators are usually not voltage regulated. There are two
consequences of this; they can wildly fluctuate voltage as the load changes,
and they are usually very noisy (both is waveform and sound.) Either one
can damage sensitive devices.
Six years ago we had a major wind storm that left a few hundred thousand
people without power for up to a week. I know of 5 furnaces that were burnt
out by unregulated generators, but there were thousands of unregulated
generators powering furnaces. So your odds are good, but the price for
being one of the losers is pretty high. Do you feel lucky? Personally I
prefer a good generator; they are safer, quieter, and generally use less
gas. Those are all good things that justify their price.

Unregulated voltage gens start at a high voltage and usualy reach 120
60 hz at load. Start voltage is usualy around 135, but cheap low powered
units easily swing 35 v ++. Even Coleman in their manual says if
electronics are to be used buy a separate regulator and they even give
you a telephone #.
Those regulators can double cheap generators cost. Regulated units
usualy swing only 10- 15v.
Honda has a line of " clean power" stable signwave generators that are
as clean or cleaner than your utility co. And they have a line that is
voltage regulated. And are very quiet in sound noise.
Whatever you get test it before you need it to full load with a meter
to be sure it will do what you need. You should look for voltage
regulation and find out the % volt swing the unit is desiged for and see
if your equipment can handle it. HZ varies with voltage , many motors
wont start if Hz is off. Look for a good motor with steel sleeve and
pressure oiled. The cheapest unit that does this is a Generac 4000exl
for 700 at HD it also has electric start and an oil filter, but it stil
swings apx 10v. For better go Honda , their inverter line is the best
but at 2.5 x the price of Generac. Some Colemans use techumpsee motors
some models which only last 350 hrs Pressure oiled steel sleeve can go
3500 hrs.
With generators you really get what you pay for

Most anything under 700 is unregulated, you have to research and ask
about allot of things , what brand are you looking at.

Inverters produce non sinewave output with many harmonics that are bad. The
good onces will filter much of that out, better ones can eliminate most of
it.

Generators produce sinewave output but as metioned are poorly regulated at
the low end.

Another problem is surge current. Depending on what you are powering you
will awnt to size the generator for any start current requirements for
inductive loads, otherwise the startup voltage drop you will encounter if
such a condition happens can shorten and/or burn up a motor.

Probably more exsessive than most will need, but I have a good 12000 output
Gen to handle all the fridge/freezers and small motor loads and if careful I
can even run the AC. I also feed into a good size UPS to regulate and
further protect all my elcetronics and computers in the home office. Most
electronics like a clean power on and power off, when using a generator one
can have a condition sometimes when power will come up slower and if the
generator is shutoff will cause the voltage to slowly drop, this can be bad.
Best to have a auto disconnect that will only allow output when the
generator is ready to produce full output and disconnect cleanly if the
voltage drops to a preset minimum for a specifc amount of time.



"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Unregulated voltage gens start at a high voltage and usualy reach 120
60 hz at load. Start voltage is usualy around 135, but cheap low powered
units easily swing 35 v ++. Even Coleman in their manual says if
electronics are to be used buy a separate regulator and they even give
you a telephone #.
Those regulators can double cheap generators cost. Regulated units
usualy swing only 10- 15v.
Honda has a line of " clean power" stable signwave generators that are
as clean or cleaner than your utility co. And they have a line that is
voltage regulated. And are very quiet in sound noise.
Whatever you get test it before you need it to full load with a meter
to be sure it will do what you need. You should look for voltage
regulation and find out the % volt swing the unit is desiged for and see
if your equipment can handle it. HZ varies with voltage , many motors
wont start if Hz is off. Look for a good motor with steel sleeve and
pressure oiled. The cheapest unit that does this is a Generac 4000exl
for 700 at HD it also has electric start and an oil filter, but it stil
swings apx 10v. For better go Honda , their inverter line is the best
but at 2.5 x the price of Generac. Some Colemans use techumpsee motors
some models which only last 350 hrs Pressure oiled steel sleeve can go
3500 hrs.
With generators you really get what you pay for

Ok,, do any openly state if they have closely regulated voltage?

If they have voltage regulation (or possibly automatic voltage regulation)
they will feature it in their advertising copy, as it is an important and
expensive feature. If they don't mention it, they don't have it.
Sadly, it will probably cost twice as much as an unregulated genny, but you
get other good features as well; such as low noise, etc.
If price is a problem, you might get lucky with a used one. Last year I
bought a small used regulated Kawasaki with only 20 hours on it for $350; it
was about $1,000 new, but apparently the market for used Kawasakis is not
good. (Or you might get one with 1000 hours without an oil change; you have
to be careful.)

One thing not to do is let the gen run out of gas connected to anything
with Capacitors, they easilt fry. Motors, electronics etc.

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 03:22:11 GMT, toller wrote:

Ok,, do any openly state if they have closely regulated voltage?

If they have voltage regulation (or possibly automatic voltage regulation)
they will feature it in their advertising copy, as it is an important and
expensive feature. If they don't mention it, they don't have it.
Sadly, it will probably cost twice as much as an unregulated genny, but you
get other good features as well; such as low noise, etc.
If price is a problem, you might get lucky with a used one. Last year I
bought a small used regulated Kawasaki with only 20 hours on it for $350; it
was about $1,000 new, but apparently the market for used Kawasakis is not
good. (Or you might get one with 1000 hours without an oil change; you have
to be careful.)

You might be able to get a deal on new ones, too. Around
here in Upstate NY, Home Depot has been selling the Generac
7550EXL for about $1K. Seems to be a decent generator - voltage
regulated, has an idle setting that substantially reduces
noise, electric start, pressured oiling, etc. Only other
thing I'd wish for is an oil filter.

- Rich

The Generac EXL line all have oil filters. EXL is Electric start
Extended Life. The 4000EXL the 7500 EXL and the one you mentioned 7550
EXL, They also come with an extra oil filter , Battery and float charger
and cover. I have a 7500 EXL from Lowes which often has a Transfer
Panel kit giveaway. The models on EXL are similar but Generac badges
each stores unit as unique so they dont have to expose the store to
price wars. So ineffect HD and Lowes carry the same unit plus or minus
a few features but HD will not match a price at Lowes saying it is a
different model when in actuality it is but say a 50 watt higher rating
and different color and extra extension cord, or other giveaway. The
700$ 4000 EXL is nice as is the 7500 EXL which I paid 1250 but got allot
of freebees, Air - Oil filters, plugs, Oil, Charger, and a completly
wired transfer panel , Wire- cable, Plugs , and ccver. Generac makes
their own steel sleeve, pressurised , oil filtered , electric start
motor and is owned by Briggs & Stratton.
Remember to run it with a mild load of 220 in no longer than 6 mo
intervals or the Gen Head can loose residual field magnitism and need
complicated " Flashing " to Re -magnitise the Gen Head magnetic field.

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:31:37 -0500, m Ransley wrote:
The Generac EXL line all have oil filters. EXL is Electric start
Extended Life. The 4000EXL the 7500 EXL and the one you mentioned 7550
EXL, They also come with an extra oil filter , Battery and float charger
and cover.

Bzzzt. Sorry, but your advice is as inaccurate as usual. I have
a 7550EXL currently sitting in my garage, and I can tell you
with 100% certainty that the engine does not have an oil
filter, and neither does it come with a cover.

Got any more uninformed statements to make?

- Rich

USER . You either dont have an EXL , got screwed, or dont know how to
look at a motor , or dont know what an oil filter is.

EXL models have oil filters, you stupid Bozo.

As I said " Extras " define store model differences, a cover is an "
extra "

USER you the looser

Generac model 1470 at HD the 7550 comes with an oil filter, go check
the Generac site Bozo, Are you so stupid you cant see it in plain view,
or to fat to bend over and look. You better learn to use your equipment
USER-Looser. Mr A

My info wrong ? Go check it out USER Looser

"USER" The BozoLooser doesnt even know his own unit has an Oli Filter
On the MOTOR
BWAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAA

It also runs on Gasoline " USER "

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 02:05:04 -0500, m Ransley wrote:
USER . You either dont have an EXL , got screwed, or dont know how to
look at a motor , or dont know what an oil filter is.


Really? I wonder why the model plate has "7550EXL" on it then.

EXL models have oil filters, you stupid Bozo.

Really? I wonder why the engine manual mentions specifically that it doesn't have an oil filter.


As I said " Extras " define store model differences, a cover is an "
extra "

No, you said it came with a cover. And yet it doesn't.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 02:13:38 -0500, m Ransley wrote:
USER you the looser

Generac model 1470 at HD the 7550 comes with an oil filter, go check
the Generac site Bozo, Are you so stupid you cant see it in plain view,
or to fat to bend over and look. You better learn to use your equipment
USER-Looser. Mr A

Check out the manual, which is also online. Notice anything about the oil filter?

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 02:21:19 -0500, m Ransley wrote:
"USER" The BozoLooser doesnt even know his own unit has an Oli Filter
On the MOTOR
BWAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAA

It also runs on Gasoline " USER "

You mean like when you wrote:

USER . You either dont have an EXL , got screwed, or dont know how to
look at a motor

Got anything else you'd like to refute? ;-)

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 02:18:53 -0500, m Ransley wrote:
My info wrong ? Go check it out USER Looser

You mean the one that I have in my garage, as opposed to the
one you don't have?

I'm rather curious about what you'd have to say if I posted
photos of each side of the engine, and have you try to point
out where you think the oil filter is. And then see if
you even bother to respond, when you can't find it. :-)

- Rich

Yea call generac, EXL models have oil filters , you got screwed, The
7550 is also listed as having an oil filter on Generacs site and it
states it is available at HD.

So you got screwed.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:07:51 -0500, m Ransley wrote:
Yea call generac, EXL models have oil filters , you got screwed, The
7550 is also listed as having an oil filter on Generacs site and it
states it is available at HD.


Pssst. I'll give you a hint; When the GN-410 engine
manual that is used for the 7550EXL states that it
doesn't come with an oil filter, that means it's been
designed that way. By Generac. Personally, I think that
the manual, and the actual device trump anything that the
website has to say.

So you got screwed.


Why? Because you can't admit you were wrong? :-)

- Rich

Listen good, Rich User,

I just got back from HD, all 4 of their 7550EXL have an oil filter. GET
IT.

My 7500 EXL has one.

Post your photos, Call Generac, Ck their Web Site. then shut up,

You don't see it, or you should return it for what you paid for.

YOU GOT SCREWED or are a freaking blind moron, Either way you lack
intelligence.

Post your photos

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:06:44 -0500, m Ransley wrote:
Listen good, Rich User,

I just got back from HD, all 4 of their 7550EXL have an oil filter. GET
IT.


You opened every box and checked? Really? Why don't I believe you?
Seems like that might tick off the employees just a little bit,
considering the way that the generator is packed you can't see
the engine from the top of the open box, and have to rip the box apart to
access it at all. Unless, of course, you have the capability of
using your X-ray vision to see through the opaque black plastic
fuel tank that extends over the entire top of the genset, AND
the opaque plastic bag it's wrapped in. Boy, I wish I could
see like that. :-)


My 7500 EXL has one.


Yes? So? Did I say I have a 7500EXL?

Post your photos, Call Generac, Ck their Web Site. then shut up,

You don't see it, or you should return it for what you paid for.

YOU GOT SCREWED or are a freaking blind moron, Either way you lack
intelligence.


How do you explain the manual? Do you think someone has been
going around secretly replacing the engines in a 250 pound
generator, printing new manuals, and making new boxes? I'll give
ya another hint; When the manual says that the capacity of
an engine withut the filter is 46 ozs of oil, and it takes about
1-3/4 26 oz bottles of oil to fill it, it's a pretty darned
good indication right there. ;-)

Boy, those must be some awfully busy little gnomes. ;-)

- Rich

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:25:53 -0500, m Ransley wrote:
Post your photos

I'll be happy to. Do you need some time to work up some
sort of explanation, like maybe the muffler is a combination
muffler-oil filter, or some such? ;-)

- Rich

Dam Rich your are not to bright a bulb, Im trying to help you , If you
dont have a filter you paid for something you did not get and will get a
Free Replacement.

HD has display model everything , open for all to see, touch, look at,
and compare.

Call the Generac lazy ass, and post your photos, you really dont get
it, you paid for a E- XL,Electric start , Extended Life unit , With
a pressurised oil system Including a filter. Wake up.

Yes where are your Photos you promised, or are you a blind phony

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:25:46 -0500, m Ransley wrote:
Dam Rich your are not to bright a bulb, Im trying to help you , If you
dont have a filter you paid for something you did not get and will get a
Free Replacement.


OK, perhaps I'm easily amused, but for some reason, having someone with your writing skills and intellectual capacity tell me I'm a dim bulb just tickles me. ;-)

I paid for a model that doesn't include an oil filter, and that's what I got. Which part of that don't you understand, exactly?


HD has display model everything , open for all to see, touch, look at,
and compare.


And what about the other three gensets that you claim to have verified? Are you trying to tell me they have four display models of the 7550EXL? Now admit it - you really didn't go there, did you?


Call the Generac lazy ass, and post your photos, you really dont get
it, you paid for a E- XL,Electric start , Extended Life unit , With
a pressurised oil system Including a filter. Wake up.


What part of the manual that explicitly specifies that the GN-410 engine that it uses, doesn't include an oil filter, don't you understand? Do you really, honestly believe that Generac would say, "Oh, sure, we designed this one to run without an oil filter, and we even document it that way, but since you asked, we'll be happy to redesign it just for you!"


Yes where are your Photos you promised, or are you a blind phony

As soon as I get home tonight. Get your bib ready for your crow dinner. ;-)

- Rich

Curiosity is killing me-- Is this your Generator?
http://www.generac-portables.com/gen...ttage=&order=6

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 17:50:00 GMT, user wrote:

-snip-
I paid for a model that doesn't include an oil filter, and that's what I got. Which part of that don't you understand, exactly?

-snip-
What part of the manual that explicitly specifies that the GN-410 engine that it uses, doesn't include an oil filter, don't you understand? Do you really, honestly believe that Generac would say, "Oh, sure, we designed this one to run without an oil filter, and we even document it that way, but since you asked, we'll be happy to redesign it just for you!"

This one has the 15HP, OHV GN410 engine-- and has this note
"Automotive Style Oil Filter Keeps oil clean - prolonging engine
life. "

Is the page wrong? The model number you're talking about? Something
else?

Jim

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 18:09:53 GMT, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
Curiosity is killing me-- Is this your Generator?
http://www.generac-portables.com/gen...ttage=&order=6

Yep. The web page is wrong, though.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 18:09:53 GMT, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
Curiosity is killing me-- Is this your Generator?
http://www.generac-portables.com/gen...ttage=&order=6

This one has the 15HP, OHV GN410 engine-- and has this note
"Automotive Style Oil Filter Keeps oil clean - prolonging engine
life. "

Is the page wrong? The model number you're talking about? Something
else?

Whoops. Sent that one off too quickly.

The actual issue is there are really two versions of the GN-410 - one
of which is a 13HP one with no filter, and a 15HP one with a filter. Both
are used on that model of genset. It's the same engine, basically,
except the lower rated one doesn't include the filter, while the
15HP one does. The other notable difference is that the 13HP version
costs about $300 less.

But Mr. Spastic-Fingers hasn't quite figured that out yet. ;-)

- Rich

m Ransley wrote:

USER . You either dont have an EXL , got screwed, or dont know how to
look at a motor , or dont know what an oil filter is.

EXL models have oil filters, you stupid Bozo.

As I said " Extras " define store model differences, a cover is an "
extra "



This exchange reminded me of yet another thing Uncle Schlomo told me...

"If someone comes up to you with a deck of playing cards and offers to
bet you $20 that he can make the Jack of Spades rise up out of the deck
and spit prune juice in your eye" - - - - "Don't bet him, you'll be $20
poorer with an eye full of prune juice."

I'm definitely not taking sides, but I can't wait to see the outcome...

Jeff

--
Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"As long as there are final exams, there will be prayer in public
schools"

Rich, Rudeness, insults stop . Im trying to help you. The 7550 is 15
HP with filter. Yes I went to HD, Boxes were open, floor display models
were there. Email Me I will give you the address and tel # of my HD .
and my engine and serial # if you wish.

Ive researched generators extensively, the EXL model as I bought 2.

Yes it seems Generac pulled a fast one on Consumers and you. A 7550
EXL is 15 hp with filter as the website says. NOT 13 hp without filter.
If you bring it to their HDs and Generacs Attention you will get a free
unit.

This may be a Fraud or big mistake of Generac which affects hundreds .
If you are truely Badged a 7550 EXL as I saw=A0at HD with 15 HP Oil
filtered engines for I beleive 1099$ US the Consumer Protection Agency
and Federal Trade Commission must be notified.

Lets stop the ****ing match, you may have been screwed and are
intitiled to what you paid for . And frankly why would I lie or waste
my time , I post accurate info here, and have no interest or desire to
misslead. Let me know , I will Complain to the proper authorities also,
if it all matches up.
Have a nice day

300 less ? I dont think so, Model numbers are set to what it is , not
changing motors, or excessories. My 7500 EXL came with a transfer panel
, Cover,Electrical Plugs in the Genset Box, Tue up kit Oil and Air
filter Extra oil for 1250, HDs 1099$ 7550 unit I saw today had a15 hp
oil filtered unit as mine and came with that multiple extension cord
plus other odd and ends.
Point is Two units of same model # Can Not have different motors at
TWO different HDs and only One one the Website or Brochure I have.
A generac mistake ? YES.

Photos of your model # and of the side of the motor with exaust and
below the Valve cover would prove your statement.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:49:22 -0500, m Ransley wrote:
Rich, Rudeness, insults stop .

Odd, coming from someone who has been using insults in nearly every post. ;-)


Im trying to help you. The 7550 is 15
HP with filter. Yes I went to HD, Boxes were open, floor display models
were there. Email Me I will give you the address and tel # of my HD .
and my engine and serial # if you wish.


What exactly does your engine and serial number - which are for an
entirely different model of genset - have to do with the price of beans?

Ive researched generators extensively, the EXL model as I bought 2.


They are pretty decent for the price, aren't they? Especially
when you don't have to shell out $6.00 for an oil filter. ;-)

Yes it seems Generac pulled a fast one on Consumers and you. A 7550
EXL is 15 hp with filter as the website says. NOT 13 hp without filter.
If you bring it to their HDs and Generacs Attention you will get a free
unit.

Why would I complain to anyone about a product that was sold exactly
as it was presented, on the box?


This may be a Fraud or big mistake of Generac which affects hundreds .
If you are truely Badged a 7550 EXL as I saw*at HD with 15 HP Oil
filtered engines for I beleive 1099$ US the Consumer Protection Agency
and Federal Trade Commission must be notified.

Indeed. I think you may want to contact the TSA, ACLU, and maybe
even AA, as well.

Lets stop the ****ing match, you may have been screwed and are
intitiled to what you paid for . And frankly why would I lie or waste
my time , I post accurate info here, and have no interest or desire to
misslead. Let me know , I will Complain to the proper authorities also,
if it all matches up.

So you're going to do what, exactly? "Hey, I heard from some
random person on the internet that he bought something that was
advertised as being constructed with some parts... and it was. But
the company website says something else, so I want a Federal
Investigation. Because, you know, whatever I see on a website
MUST be true."

Uh huh.

- Rich

Rich "USER " You are either a Troll, or a moron . The HD Boxes dont
say anything about OIL FILTER that is why I SAW UNITS AT HD, TODAY
.....

You probably dont own a 7550, ,never saw a 7550, and are a ****tard
Ass.

You wont post Photos as you most likely dont own the 7550.

Bottom line from all your posts you are Full Of diarea and disease from
Brain to Butt.

**** or shut up " User "

" USER " Time to change that handle to ' Looser " or
some other anonymous hidden crap, as you hide for your stupidity and
ignorance.

On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:41:25 -0500, m Ransley wrote:
Rich "USER " You are either a Troll, or a moron . The HD Boxes dont
say anything about OIL FILTER that is why I SAW UNITS AT HD, TODAY
....

You probably dont own a 7550, ,never saw a 7550, and are a ****tard
Ass.

You wont post Photos as you most likely dont own the 7550.

Bottom line from all your posts you are Full Of diarea and disease from
Brain to Butt.

**** or shut up " User "


My goodness. It's almost enough to give me the vapors. ;-)

- Rich

Yea "vapors Rich User " post your unit photos as you said you would.
But I suspect you dont even own a 7550 Generac.

You are just full of Bull ****, as is your name. Time for a Change ,
YES ****tard

" USER " Rich ???? Troll
Post photos ass hole, or go get a new name