Best order for refurbishing house

I will most likely be moving and will be redoing the house to make it
ready for sale. What's the best order for doing these things... I'm
thinking it's the order listed below.

- interior paint
-redo shower/tub
- flooring
- cabinets/counters

On Fri, 18 Mar 2016 17:18:28 -0700, "Ashton Crusher"
wrote:

Best order for refurbishing house

I will most likely be moving and will be redoing the house to make it
ready for sale. What's the best order for doing these things... I'm
thinking it's the order listed below.

- interior paint
-redo shower/tub
- flooring
- cabinets/counters

Check with a couple of real estate agents in your area. Paint and
flooring colors should be a neutral color. Don't spend money on things
that will not increase the sales price. When I detailed properties,
they were in move in condition and usually sold on the first day or
two. A few times for cash.
--
"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.-- James Madison

On Fri, 18 Mar 2016 17:18:28 -0700, "Ashton Crusher"
wrote:

Best order for refurbishing house

I will most likely be moving and will be redoing the house to make it
ready for sale. What's the best order for doing these things... I'm
thinking it's the order listed below.

- interior paint
-redo shower/tub
- flooring
- cabinets/counters

I would do the real renovations first. Painting last.

On Fri, 18 Mar 2016 22:52:42 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Fri, 18 Mar 2016 17:18:28 -0700, "Ashton Crusher"
wrote:

Best order for refurbishing house

I will most likely be moving and will be redoing the house to make it
ready for sale. What's the best order for doing these things... I'm
thinking it's the order listed below.

- interior paint
-redo shower/tub
- flooring
- cabinets/counters

I would do the real renovations first. Painting last.
Roof (and windows / caulking) first if required. Make sure it is 100%
weathertight before doing any interior work.
Then do all required wiring and plumbing modifications so if you need
to open walls, cielings, or floors you aren't doing anything twice.
Then fix all the walls, and do first coat of paint.
Then do floors, then cabinets, then trim and final coat of paint.

Doing it in this order means there is no chance of unpainted wall
showing behind cabinets and trim, and the cabinets etc are all
accurate hight from finished floor - so things like stoves,
dishwashers, etc fit properly - and any damage done to walls when
doing floors etc can be touched up with the final coat of paint -
while wall repairs and initial painting won't get paint/drywall
compound etc on the new flooring.

Best order for refurbishing house
- interior paint
-redo shower/tub
- flooring
- cabinets/counters

Of the items given...

1. Redo shower/tub. Any remodel work here will likely affect the
surrounding paint and flooring. Best to take care of this first.

2. Paint. It is easier to paint before the cabinets are in the way and so
you don't have to worry about drips on new floors.

3. Flooring. With the tub installed and the painting done, you can easily
lay the floor without worrying about drips or obstructions.

4. Cabinets/counters. With the paint and flooring done, it will be easy to
install the cabinets.

At least that's the order I would do them.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On 3/18/2016 9:30 PM, HerHusband wrote:
Best order for refurbishing house
- interior paint
-redo shower/tub
- flooring
- cabinets/counters

Of the items given...

1. Redo shower/tub. Any remodel work here will likely affect the
surrounding paint and flooring. Best to take care of this first.

2. Paint. It is easier to paint before the cabinets are in the way and so
you don't have to worry about drips on new floors.

3. Flooring. With the tub installed and the painting done, you can easily
lay the floor without worrying about drips or obstructions.

4. Cabinets/counters. With the paint and flooring done, it will be easy to
install the cabinets.

I might wonder what *sort* of flooring is going in. E.g., with ceramic
tile, often want the cabinets to sit on the "subfloor" and not the tile
so you'd install them and then tile *to* them (instead of tiling UNDER them).

At least that's the order I would do them.

Ashton Crusher wrote:

Best order for refurbishing house

I will most likely be moving and will be redoing the house to make it
ready for sale. What's the best order for doing these things... I'm
thinking it's the order listed below.

- interior paint
-redo shower/tub
- flooring
- cabinets/counters

depends a lot upon other factors, how much you
like doing that sort of thing, if you're skilled
enough to make it look good, how much time you have,
what the local market is like, ask the local realtors
(but most likely they will encourage you to do
improvements as it is money in their pocket if a
house sells for more).

IMO, none of that, if you count your labor and the
cost of materials you will rarely recover the expenses.
also figure the time to sale. right now is spring,
get it on the market and let it go. you want to be
moving in the fall or winter?

if i buy a place all of those are things that i
would redo for myself to suit my own tastes. why
would i want to pay more $ for things i'll replace
or redo eventually? if someone repaints with cheap
paint it sucks, same for the rest of it...

much better to make sure the roof is done well
and that the exterior is sound. take care of anything
that would be a problem for the new owner but otherwise
get out and move on.


songbird

On Saturday, March 19, 2016 at 3:38:15 AM UTC-4, songbird wrote:
Ashton Crusher wrote:

Best order for refurbishing house

I will most likely be moving and will be redoing the house to make it
ready for sale. What's the best order for doing these things... I'm
thinking it's the order listed below.

- interior paint
-redo shower/tub
- flooring
- cabinets/counters

depends a lot upon other factors, how much you
like doing that sort of thing, if you're skilled
enough to make it look good, how much time you have,
what the local market is like, ask the local realtors
(but most likely they will encourage you to do
improvements as it is money in their pocket if a
house sells for more).

IMO, none of that, if you count your labor and the
cost of materials you will rarely recover the expenses.
also figure the time to sale. right now is spring,
get it on the market and let it go. you want to be
moving in the fall or winter?

if i buy a place all of those are things that i
would redo for myself to suit my own tastes. why
would i want to pay more $ for things i'll replace
or redo eventually? if someone repaints with cheap
paint it sucks, same for the rest of it...

much better to make sure the roof is done well
and that the exterior is sound. take care of anything
that would be a problem for the new owner but otherwise
get out and move on.


songbird

obviously all those house flippers arent making money, and buyers dont ever buy flipped homes

On 3/19/2016 12:40 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 3/18/2016 9:30 PM, HerHusband wrote:
Best order for refurbishing house
- interior paint
-redo shower/tub
- flooring
- cabinets/counters

Of the items given...

1. Redo shower/tub. Any remodel work here will likely affect the
surrounding paint and flooring. Best to take care of this first.

2. Paint. It is easier to paint before the cabinets are in the way and so
you don't have to worry about drips on new floors.

3. Flooring. With the tub installed and the painting done, you can easily
lay the floor without worrying about drips or obstructions.

4. Cabinets/counters. With the paint and flooring done, it will be
easy to
install the cabinets.

I might wonder what *sort* of flooring is going in. E.g., with ceramic
tile, often want the cabinets to sit on the "subfloor" and not the tile
so you'd install them and then tile *to* them (instead of tiling UNDER
them).

At least that's the order I would do them.



No the cabinet should sit on the tile not the subfloor. What if the
cabinet would need changed out? Then you would need to redo the floor as
well.

John

On 3/18/2016 9:00 PM, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2016 17:18:28 -0700, "Ashton Crusher"
wrote:

Best order for refurbishing house

I will most likely be moving and will be redoing the house to make it
ready for sale. What's the best order for doing these things... I'm
thinking it's the order listed below.

- interior paint
-redo shower/tub
- flooring
- cabinets/counters

Check with a couple of real estate agents in your area. Paint and
flooring colors should be a neutral color. Don't spend money on things
that will not increase the sales price. When I detailed properties,
they were in move in condition and usually sold on the first day or
two. A few times for cash.


My neighbor did extensive renovations not needed before moving. He made
the mistake of putting the house for sale in the late fall where
pictures outside were not real attractive. Also listed too high and
ended up getting maybe $125,000 below initial asking price.

Guy that bought it renovated it. He tore out one new bathroom to put in
a complete another to satisfy his elderly grandfather.

I agree, Oren, don't put money in house and expect to get it back.

Best order for refurbishing house

I will most likely be moving and will be redoing the house to make it
ready for sale. What's the best order for doing these things... I'm
thinking it's the order listed below.

- interior paint
-redo shower/tub
- flooring
- cabinets/counters

redo shower/tub (if there will be paint above shower tiles, paint there
first)
interior paint
cabinets/counters
flooring (unless you want it UNDER the cabinets)

John wrote:

No the cabinet should sit on the tile not the subfloor. What if the
cabinet would need changed out? Then you would need to redo the floor
as well.

If I ever wanted to change mine I would remove them from the plinth upon
which they sit - the face of which is tiled - and put in new ones, sans toe
kicks.

Plinths are handy.

On 3/18/2016 7:18 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
Best order for refurbishing house

I will most likely be moving and will be redoing the house to make it
ready for sale. What's the best order for doing these things... I'm
thinking it's the order listed below.

- interior paint
-redo shower/tub
- flooring
- cabinets/counters


Are all those things necessary? Sounds like a lot of work to make a
house ready for sale. I'd talk to a couple of realtors first. Often
times, that stuff doesn't pay off.

Do the things that need doing, but be careful of the money and time you
invest. Sounds like you might not get a lot of that back.

A few years ago, we sold a house and all we did was update the flooring
and paint. Sold almost immediately.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 07:58:09 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

John wrote:

No the cabinet should sit on the tile not the subfloor. What if the
cabinet would need changed out? Then you would need to redo the floor
as well.

If I ever wanted to change mine I would remove them from the plinth upon
which they sit - the face of which is tiled - and put in new ones, sans toe
kicks.

Plinths are handy.



Unless they were built in such a way as to make that practical, the
plinth would likely break taking out the cabinets, and the plinth
comes as part of the new cabinets - again unless you have them custom
made to fit your existing plinth. And what if you want to re-arrange
and move the fridge or stove or dishwasher???

Not practical in most situations.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 09:25:20 -0500, SeaNymph
wrote:

On 3/18/2016 7:18 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
Best order for refurbishing house

I will most likely be moving and will be redoing the house to make it
ready for sale. What's the best order for doing these things... I'm
thinking it's the order listed below.

- interior paint
-redo shower/tub
- flooring
- cabinets/counters


Are all those things necessary? Sounds like a lot of work to make a
house ready for sale. I'd talk to a couple of realtors first. Often
times, that stuff doesn't pay off.

Do the things that need doing, but be careful of the money and time you
invest. Sounds like you might not get a lot of that back.

A few years ago, we sold a house and all we did was update the flooring
and paint. Sold almost immediately.
If the place is a "dump" just getting someone to look at it, much
less buy it, may require all of the above.

An empty chicken coop is hard to sell in any market. So is a house
that has had the interior basically destroyed. A little lipstick on
the pig CAN go a long way. However, if it is basically in good shape,
you are unlikely to get your money back - much-less make a profit.

As for flippers - I wouldn't buy the average "flip" for any price.

In most cases it's a lot of lipstick on a dead pig.

I might wonder what *sort* of flooring is going in. E.g., with
ceramic tile, often want the cabinets to sit on the "subfloor" and not
the tile so you'd install them and then tile *to* them (instead of
tiling UNDER them).

I installed our cabinets on TOP of wood flooring, tile flooring, and vinyl
flooring. Makes for a neater job, and much easier than cutting around the
cabinets.

The only exception would be carpet, where you would install the cabinets
first and fit the carpet around them.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On 3/19/2016 12:40 AM, Don Y wrote:

I might wonder what *sort* of flooring is going in. E.g., with ceramic
tile, often want the cabinets to sit on the "subfloor" and not the tile
so you'd install them and then tile *to* them (instead of tiling UNDER
them).

Why would you want the cabinets on the subfloor? That is the way a hack
does a remodel.

On 3/19/2016 3:37 AM, songbird wrote:




IMO, none of that, if you count your labor and the
cost of materials you will rarely recover the expenses.
also figure the time to sale. right now is spring,
get it on the market and let it go. you want to be
moving in the fall or winter?

if i buy a place all of those are things that i
would redo for myself to suit my own tastes. why
would i want to pay more $ for things i'll replace
or redo eventually? if someone repaints with cheap
paint it sucks, same for the rest of it...

much better to make sure the roof is done well
and that the exterior is sound. take care of anything
that would be a problem for the new owner but otherwise
get out and move on.


songbird


Buying, I agree with you. Selling, I do not. Ever watch any f the TV
shows about real estate? Seems there are a lot of unimaginative buyers
that just want to move in and do nothing. They reject houses for silly
things too, that you or I can change in an hour.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...


Buying, I agree with you. Selling, I do not. Ever watch any f the TV
shows about real estate? Seems there are a lot of unimaginative buyers
that just want to move in and do nothing. They reject houses for silly
things too, that you or I can change in an hour.

The people that quibble over the appliances are the ones that I don't
understand. When dealing with a house that is over $ 200,000 they worry
about a thousand or two worth of the appliances.

I bought a house about 12 years ago and to make my wife happy, the master
bathroom was stripped to the studs and redone to make it look the way she
wanted before we moved in.

The house I sold was turned over to some people I know and I told them to
give it a 'fluff and buff'. Just paint, a few minor things,and I did
replace some vinal flooring as it was well worn. Hail storm happened about
that time , so the insurance paid for a new roof. Sold it myself in about
3 months.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 10:59:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 3/19/2016 12:40 AM, Don Y wrote:

I might wonder what *sort* of flooring is going in. E.g., with ceramic
tile, often want the cabinets to sit on the "subfloor" and not the tile
so you'd install them and then tile *to* them (instead of tiling UNDER
them).

Why would you want the cabinets on the subfloor? That is the way a hack
does a remodel.
Also the way a majority of "flips" are done. Do it right.

On 3/19/2016 4:33 AM, John wrote:
On 3/19/2016 12:40 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 3/18/2016 9:30 PM, HerHusband wrote:
Best order for refurbishing house
- interior paint
-redo shower/tub
- flooring
- cabinets/counters

Of the items given...

1. Redo shower/tub. Any remodel work here will likely affect the
surrounding paint and flooring. Best to take care of this first.

2. Paint. It is easier to paint before the cabinets are in the way and so
you don't have to worry about drips on new floors.

3. Flooring. With the tub installed and the painting done, you can easily
lay the floor without worrying about drips or obstructions.

4. Cabinets/counters. With the paint and flooring done, it will be
easy to
install the cabinets.

I might wonder what *sort* of flooring is going in. E.g., with ceramic
tile, often want the cabinets to sit on the "subfloor" and not the tile
so you'd install them and then tile *to* them (instead of tiling UNDER
them).

At least that's the order I would do them.

No the cabinet should sit on the tile not the subfloor. What if the cabinet
would need changed out? Then you would need to redo the floor as well.

Take your argument to its logical conclusion: if you've already got tiled
floor, do you rip out the tile when you install new cabinets?

The top surface of tile is uneven. Setting cabinets ON it leaves you with
a potentially unstable base and gaps under the cabinets (unless you want
to make your toe kicks out of RUBBER)

Cabinets are standard sizes. It's not like your next set are going to be
deeper, front to back, than your old ones. You aren't going to move the
walls to squeeze in a cabinet that is 2" wider, etc.

Here, homes where folks installed cabinets *on* tile are the "low rent"
variety; the installation looks very amateurish.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 07:33:36 -0400, John wrote:

On 3/19/2016 12:40 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 3/18/2016 9:30 PM, HerHusband wrote:
Best order for refurbishing house
- interior paint
-redo shower/tub
- flooring
- cabinets/counters

Of the items given...

1. Redo shower/tub. Any remodel work here will likely affect the
surrounding paint and flooring. Best to take care of this first.

2. Paint. It is easier to paint before the cabinets are in the way and so
you don't have to worry about drips on new floors.

3. Flooring. With the tub installed and the painting done, you can easily
lay the floor without worrying about drips or obstructions.

4. Cabinets/counters. With the paint and flooring done, it will be
easy to
install the cabinets.

I might wonder what *sort* of flooring is going in. E.g., with ceramic
tile, often want the cabinets to sit on the "subfloor" and not the tile
so you'd install them and then tile *to* them (instead of tiling UNDER
them).

At least that's the order I would do them.



No the cabinet should sit on the tile not the subfloor. What if the
cabinet would need changed out? Then you would need to redo the floor as
well.

John

Absolutely 100% correct.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 09:31:23 -0700, Don Y wrote:

Snip

No the cabinet should sit on the tile not the subfloor. What if the cabinet
would need changed out? Then you would need to redo the floor as well.

Take your argument to its logical conclusion: if you've already got tiled
floor, do you rip out the tile when you install new cabinets?

The top surface of tile is uneven. Setting cabinets ON it leaves you with
a potentially unstable base and gaps under the cabinets (unless you want
to make your toe kicks out of RUBBER)

That's what shims are for. Shims are going to be required even if you place the cabinets directly on the subfloor.

Cabinets are standard sizes. It's not like your next set are going to be
deeper, front to back, than your old ones. You aren't going to move the
walls to squeeze in a cabinet that is 2" wider, etc.

You are the only one to mention different depth cabinets.

Here, homes where folks installed cabinets *on* tile are the "low rent"
variety; the installation looks very amateurish.

The appearance of the finished product is a reflection of the installers' workmanship -- not weather the cabinets were
installed on the subfloor or not.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 12:18:18 -0500, Gordon Shumway wrote:

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 09:31:23 -0700, Don Y wrote:

Snip

No the cabinet should sit on the tile not the subfloor. What if the cabinet
would need changed out? Then you would need to redo the floor as well.

Take your argument to its logical conclusion: if you've already got tiled
floor, do you rip out the tile when you install new cabinets?

The top surface of tile is uneven. Setting cabinets ON it leaves you with
a potentially unstable base and gaps under the cabinets (unless you want
to make your toe kicks out of RUBBER)

That's what shims are for. Shims are going to be required even if you place the cabinets directly on the subfloor.

Cabinets are standard sizes. It's not like your next set are going to be
deeper, front to back, than your old ones. You aren't going to move the
walls to squeeze in a cabinet that is 2" wider, etc.

You are the only one to mention different depth cabinets.

Here, homes where folks installed cabinets *on* tile are the "low rent"
variety; the installation looks very amateurish.

The appearance of the finished product is a reflection of the installers' workmanship -- not weather the cabinets were
installed on the subfloor or not.

Oops, wrong "whether."

in a kitchen putting the cabinets on the sub floor, can causea big hassle. the dishwasher will be sitting in a trough and be very hard to remove to service.

do the job right.

tile floor first, then install cabinents.

do everything in neutral type colors,

if you dont remodel first, you are costing yourself big bucks.

90% of buyers want a move in ready home, later when they have settled in they will then redo what they want.

my 90+ age neighbor died, her family refused to do anything. the home sat vacant for many months it finally sold for about 30% off of similiar homes did.

the new owner is glad he enjoys home repair, but 90% dont!

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 07:46:04 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

My neighbor did extensive renovations not needed before moving. He made
the mistake of putting the house for sale in the late fall where
pictures outside were not real attractive. Also listed too high and
ended up getting maybe $125,000 below initial asking price.

Guy that bought it renovated it. He tore out one new bathroom to put in
a complete another to satisfy his elderly grandfather.

I agree, Oren, don't put money in house and expect to get it back.

Unless you have some defect that has to be disclosed at sell, ~95% of
refurbishing is cosmetic. If a buyer likes the house they may put in
an offer or not.

Went once to meet a seller. Price was in the right range to make an
offer. His daughter let us in (agent present) and he was late. Asked
the daughter about schools and what else was around the neighborhood.

"There's a pig farm not far from here. You can smell it in the
summer!" Make tracks feet

On 3/19/2016 1:18 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:


Cabinets are standard sizes. It's not like your next set are going to be
deeper, front to back, than your old ones. You aren't going to move the
walls to squeeze in a cabinet that is 2" wider, etc.

You are the only one to mention different depth cabinets.


In the past 18 months I renovated two bathrooms. Both have different
size vanities than were there previously. I took out the original sheet
goods and both sit on the new ceramic tile on the floor.

On 3/19/2016 11:57 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/19/2016 1:18 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:

Cabinets are standard sizes. It's not like your next set are going to be
deeper, front to back, than your old ones. You aren't going to move the
walls to squeeze in a cabinet that is 2" wider, etc.

You are the only one to mention different depth cabinets.

If cabinets have the same footprint, then changing out the cabinets is
no big deal.

In the past 18 months I renovated two bathrooms. Both have different size
vanities than were there previously. I took out the original sheet goods and
both sit on the new ceramic tile on the floor.

Try that with saltillo tile and you will grimace each time you look at it!
You'll be *caulking* around the base to hide the imperfections in the
tile's thickness, depth of grout lines, etc. (toe kick reveal just
accentuates these imperfections)

We talked to several tile pros when we ordered our tile -- as we were swapping
out bathroom and kitchen cabinetry at the same time: "What order should we
install?"

The answer boiled down to "EASIER to tile first" (less cutting and fitting)
but "much better LOOKING to tile after the cabinetry" -- the floor and
cabinetry look to belong together (esp if you tile on the diagonal).

Floor plans tend not to change (stove can't arbitrarily be moved in
most kitchens; nor the refrigerator, sink, commode, etc.). We opted to
move the kitchen peninsula a foot further into the family room and erect
a pony wall behind it -- most folks don't have that luxury (i.e., the
room's dimensions remain the same before and after replacing a floor,
cabinetry, appliances, etc.)

Our tile pattern was planned so the tiles *fit* with the cabinets
instead of just letting the cabinetry and tile "fall where they may".
At $15K, I doubt folks will be eager to replace the cabinets
in *my* lifetime! And, pulling up the floor is even more unlikely
(removing all that tile).

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 09:31:23 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

Here, homes where folks installed cabinets *on* tile are the "low rent"
variety; the installation looks very amateurish.

Huh? I put tile under a bathroom vanity. If I want to put in a
pedestal sink later, remove the vanity, it wouldn't look "low rent".
The 16 X 24 inch porcelain tile flooring is already down.

Hi Anthony,

On 3/19/2016 7:55 AM, HerHusband wrote:
I might wonder what *sort* of flooring is going in. E.g., with
ceramic tile, often want the cabinets to sit on the "subfloor" and not
the tile so you'd install them and then tile *to* them (instead of
tiling UNDER them).

I installed our cabinets on TOP of wood flooring, tile flooring, and vinyl
flooring. Makes for a neater job, and much easier than cutting around the
cabinets.

Wood, vinyl/linoleum and BATHROOM (ceramic) tile are smooth, level surfaces.
There is good dimensional repeatability (unless you've a truly "rustic"
wood floor/trip hazzard)

Our ceramic tile have a very deliberate texture to their surface and
beveled/rounded edges. I.e., there's a noticeable distance between the
top of the highest point in the texture (which is the LOWEST point for the
cabinetry to rest on the tile surface) and the lowest point in a grout
line. Put a (VERY LONG!) straight edge across that surface and all you
see are these highs and lows accentuated against that straight line.

[Said another way, you couldn't roll a steel ball STRAIGHT across a tile,
let alone a SPAN of tiles!]

With saltillo tile, the differences are even more pronounced (the tiles
themselves aren't very well dimensionally controlled).

And, all that assumes the tile is laid with the same amount of adhesive
beneath on a perfectly flat floor. Any imperfections translate through
the (rigid) tile thickness to appear as high and low spots.

[Yeah, you can shim so the cabinets don't "rock", but the toe kick reveal
will still highlight the "non-flatness" of the floor -- just like
laying a square/straightedge across the surface! Note your toe kick
is much wider than any single cabinet so you are now dealing with highs
and lows over a 6, 8, 10, 12 ft span!]

The only exception would be carpet, where you would install the cabinets
first and fit the carpet around them.

Fitting the tile gives the same sort of finished appearance. The tile
looks like it was mated to the cabinetry instead of the cabinetry
appearing as an afterthought. E.g., we will lay diagonal with smaller
trim tiles "outlining" the border of the cabinetry (and walls) with
the "field" of tile. A lot more work (cutting) but in the homes we've
examined with this approach, it really looks a lot classier.

[So, the cabinetry just plays the role of other tile: a grout line
separates the cabinetry FROM the tile]

You also have to consider what the thickness of the tile does to the
height of your counter wrt "upper" cabinets (as uppers tend to have limits
on where their tops can be located). Ceiling heights don't magically
increase just because you've lost some height to "floor thickness".

Likewise, counter heights have to consider under-the-counter appliances
(e.g., dishwasher, compactor, slide-ins, etc.). We've had to carefully
plan to ensure we could get these things in and out after the counters are
in place (lifting countertops to do so is not an option!).

[This actually cased some unexpected problems with the WC's as they
were designed to fit *under* certain other things.]

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 07:53:51 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Best order for refurbishing house

I will most likely be moving and will be redoing the house to make it
ready for sale. What's the best order for doing these things... I'm
thinking it's the order listed below.

- interior paint
-redo shower/tub
- flooring
- cabinets/counters

redo shower/tub (if there will be paint above shower tiles, paint there
first)
interior paint
cabinets/counters
flooring (unless you want it UNDER the cabinets)



Having read thru all the replies that seems to be more or less the
consensus and seems like a reasonable way to go.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 09:25:20 -0500, SeaNymph
wrote:

On 3/18/2016 7:18 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
Best order for refurbishing house

I will most likely be moving and will be redoing the house to make it
ready for sale. What's the best order for doing these things... I'm
thinking it's the order listed below.

- interior paint
-redo shower/tub
- flooring
- cabinets/counters


Are all those things necessary? Sounds like a lot of work to make a
house ready for sale. I'd talk to a couple of realtors first. Often
times, that stuff doesn't pay off.

Do the things that need doing, but be careful of the money and time you
invest. Sounds like you might not get a lot of that back.

A few years ago, we sold a house and all we did was update the flooring
and paint. Sold almost immediately.

I our market it seems virtually everything that sells is "move in
ready". My house has to have the paint done and I feel redoing the
shower is a must, it' just not "nice enough" for the market plus the
whole bathroom is "brass" which apparently is way out of style now. In
fact, most of the light fixtures are brass and I figure they will need
to be replaced with some kind of bronze/brushed nickel or similar to
fit the market. And the flooring is all 25 years old and just plain
out of date and style. Then there are the counter tops... plain old
laminate. Way out of style now so if I do that the cabinets also need
to be replaced.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 14:21:37 -0700, "Ashton Crusher"
wrote:

A few years ago, we sold a house and all we did was update the flooring
and paint. Sold almost immediately.

I our market it seems virtually everything that sells is "move in
ready". My house has to have the paint done and I feel redoing the
shower is a must, it' just not "nice enough" for the market plus the
whole bathroom is "brass" which apparently is way out of style now. In
fact, most of the light fixtures are brass and I figure they will need
to be replaced with some kind of bronze/brushed nickel or similar to
fit the market. And the flooring is all 25 years old and just plain
out of date and style. Then there are the counter tops... plain old
laminate. Way out of style now so if I do that the cabinets also need
to be replaced.

I detailed property for homes I bought, for others and for an RE
agent. Came to my present house, walked in the front door, out the
back and told the bride I'm buying the house." Told the first owner
to do nothing, except fix the pool fill valve causing a flooded pool.
Told her we would help her pack her things up so she paid us for that.
Kept the home vacant for six months until we polished it up, changed
some things around. 11 years later I still love this house and have
great neighbors, to boot. Two ole farts in a single story -- no more
stairs. What price could an agent get you in the local market if sold
"as is"?

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 14:21:37 -0700, "Ashton Crusher"
wrote:

A few years ago, we sold a house and all we did was update the flooring
and paint. Sold almost immediately.

I our market it seems virtually everything that sells is "move in
ready". My house has to have the paint done and I feel redoing the
shower is a must, it' just not "nice enough" for the market plus the
whole bathroom is "brass" which apparently is way out of style now. In
fact, most of the light fixtures are brass and I figure they will need
to be replaced with some kind of bronze/brushed nickel or similar to
fit the market. And the flooring is all 25 years old and just plain
out of date and style. Then there are the counter tops... plain old
laminate. Way out of style now so if I do that the cabinets also need
to be replaced.

I detailed property for homes I bought, for others and for an RE
agent. Came to my present house, walked in the front door, out the
back and told the bride I'm buying the house." Told the first owner
to do nothing, except fix the pool fill valve causing a flooded pool.
Told her we would help her pack her things up so she paid us for that.
Kept the home vacant for six months until we polished it up, changed
some things around. 11 years later I still love this house and have
great neighbors, to boot. Two ole farts in a single story -- no more
stairs. What price could an agent get you in the local market if sold
"as is"?

I agree. The OP should do the math, know the market in his area, and the
actual cost of the planned improvements that he has in mind vs. the price he
would get if he just sold "as-is" now instead of doing all the upgrade stuff
just to sell.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 09:31:23 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 3/19/2016 4:33 AM, John wrote:
On 3/19/2016 12:40 AM, Don Y wrote:
On 3/18/2016 9:30 PM, HerHusband wrote:
Best order for refurbishing house
- interior paint
-redo shower/tub
- flooring
- cabinets/counters

Of the items given...

1. Redo shower/tub. Any remodel work here will likely affect the
surrounding paint and flooring. Best to take care of this first.

2. Paint. It is easier to paint before the cabinets are in the way and so
you don't have to worry about drips on new floors.

3. Flooring. With the tub installed and the painting done, you can easily
lay the floor without worrying about drips or obstructions.

4. Cabinets/counters. With the paint and flooring done, it will be
easy to
install the cabinets.

I might wonder what *sort* of flooring is going in. E.g., with ceramic
tile, often want the cabinets to sit on the "subfloor" and not the tile
so you'd install them and then tile *to* them (instead of tiling UNDER
them).

At least that's the order I would do them.

No the cabinet should sit on the tile not the subfloor. What if the cabinet
would need changed out? Then you would need to redo the floor as well.

Take your argument to its logical conclusion: if you've already got tiled
floor, do you rip out the tile when you install new cabinets?

The top surface of tile is uneven. Setting cabinets ON it leaves you with
a potentially unstable base and gaps under the cabinets (unless you want
to make your toe kicks out of RUBBER)

Cabinets are standard sizes. It's not like your next set are going to be
deeper, front to back, than your old ones. You aren't going to move the
walls to squeeze in a cabinet that is 2" wider, etc.

Here, homes where folks installed cabinets *on* tile are the "low rent"
variety; the installation looks very amateurish.
If you are not installing the cabinets on the tile I sure hope you
are shimming the floor to tile level (adding another 3/8" or 1/2"
plywood) under the cabinets, particularly if a range, dishwasher, or
refrigerator are being installed within that cabinet area. I know from
experience getting a dishwasher out of a cabinet that has had tile
installed after the fact is one royal pain!!!! You need to lift the
dishwasher to get it out and you can't because the cabinet doesn't
have enough clearance to lift it high enough to get over the tile
(this was a heavy guage floor tile on a mortar bed - over 1/2 inch
higher than the subfloor)

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 12:18:18 -0500, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 09:31:23 -0700, Don Y wrote:

Snip

No the cabinet should sit on the tile not the subfloor. What if the cabinet
would need changed out? Then you would need to redo the floor as well.

Take your argument to its logical conclusion: if you've already got tiled
floor, do you rip out the tile when you install new cabinets?

The top surface of tile is uneven. Setting cabinets ON it leaves you with
a potentially unstable base and gaps under the cabinets (unless you want
to make your toe kicks out of RUBBER)

That's what shims are for. Shims are going to be required even if you place the cabinets directly on the subfloor.

Cabinets are standard sizes. It's not like your next set are going to be
deeper, front to back, than your old ones. You aren't going to move the
walls to squeeze in a cabinet that is 2" wider, etc.

You are the only one to mention different depth cabinets.

Here, homes where folks installed cabinets *on* tile are the "low rent"
variety; the installation looks very amateurish.

The appearance of the finished product is a reflection of the installers' workmanship -- not weather the cabinets were
installed on the subfloor or not.
As much a reflection on the tile installer as the cabinet installer -
and MANY cabinets today have adjustable levelling "feet" to level the
cabinet - and the "kickboard" or "plinth" gets coped to fit the floor
if necessary - or simply ripped to fit, with the small gap at the
bottom caulked.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 13:17:28 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 3/19/2016 11:57 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 3/19/2016 1:18 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:

Cabinets are standard sizes. It's not like your next set are going to be
deeper, front to back, than your old ones. You aren't going to move the
walls to squeeze in a cabinet that is 2" wider, etc.

You are the only one to mention different depth cabinets.

If cabinets have the same footprint, then changing out the cabinets is
no big deal.

In the past 18 months I renovated two bathrooms. Both have different size
vanities than were there previously. I took out the original sheet goods and
both sit on the new ceramic tile on the floor.

Try that with saltillo tile and you will grimace each time you look at it!
You'll be *caulking* around the base to hide the imperfections in the
tile's thickness, depth of grout lines, etc. (toe kick reveal just
accentuates these imperfections)

We talked to several tile pros when we ordered our tile -- as we were swapping
out bathroom and kitchen cabinetry at the same time: "What order should we
install?"

The answer boiled down to "EASIER to tile first" (less cutting and fitting)
but "much better LOOKING to tile after the cabinetry" -- the floor and
cabinetry look to belong together (esp if you tile on the diagonal).

Floor plans tend not to change (stove can't arbitrarily be moved in
most kitchens; nor the refrigerator, sink, commode, etc.). We opted to
move the kitchen peninsula a foot further into the family room and erect
a pony wall behind it -- most folks don't have that luxury (i.e., the
room's dimensions remain the same before and after replacing a floor,
cabinetry, appliances, etc.)

Our tile pattern was planned so the tiles *fit* with the cabinets
instead of just letting the cabinetry and tile "fall where they may".
At $15K, I doubt folks will be eager to replace the cabinets
in *my* lifetime! And, pulling up the floor is even more unlikely
(removing all that tile).
It's been my experience tha MOST kitchen renovations involve at
least a minor change in cabinet "footprint". Most of those that do not
involve refacing cabinets, not replacing.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 14:04:22 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

Hi Anthony,

On 3/19/2016 7:55 AM, HerHusband wrote:
I might wonder what *sort* of flooring is going in. E.g., with
ceramic tile, often want the cabinets to sit on the "subfloor" and not
the tile so you'd install them and then tile *to* them (instead of
tiling UNDER them).

I installed our cabinets on TOP of wood flooring, tile flooring, and vinyl
flooring. Makes for a neater job, and much easier than cutting around the
cabinets.

Wood, vinyl/linoleum and BATHROOM (ceramic) tile are smooth, level surfaces.
There is good dimensional repeatability (unless you've a truly "rustic"
wood floor/trip hazzard)

Our ceramic tile have a very deliberate texture to their surface and
beveled/rounded edges. I.e., there's a noticeable distance between the
top of the highest point in the texture (which is the LOWEST point for the
cabinetry to rest on the tile surface) and the lowest point in a grout
line. Put a (VERY LONG!) straight edge across that surface and all you
see are these highs and lows accentuated against that straight line.

[Said another way, you couldn't roll a steel ball STRAIGHT across a tile,
let alone a SPAN of tiles!]

With saltillo tile, the differences are even more pronounced (the tiles
themselves aren't very well dimensionally controlled).

And, all that assumes the tile is laid with the same amount of adhesive
beneath on a perfectly flat floor. Any imperfections translate through
the (rigid) tile thickness to appear as high and low spots.

A GOOD tile installer will install the tile level and smooth on the
top surface. What the adhesive.thinset thickness below the tile is
isn't critical to the finish.

[Yeah, you can shim so the cabinets don't "rock", but the toe kick reveal
will still highlight the "non-flatness" of the floor -- just like
laying a square/straightedge across the surface! Note your toe kick
is much wider than any single cabinet so you are now dealing with highs
and lows over a 6, 8, 10, 12 ft span!]

The only exception would be carpet, where you would install the cabinets
first and fit the carpet around them.

Fitting the tile gives the same sort of finished appearance. The tile
looks like it was mated to the cabinetry instead of the cabinetry
appearing as an afterthought. E.g., we will lay diagonal with smaller
trim tiles "outlining" the border of the cabinetry (and walls) with
the "field" of tile. A lot more work (cutting) but in the homes we've
examined with this approach, it really looks a lot classier.

[So, the cabinetry just plays the role of other tile: a grout line
separates the cabinetry FROM the tile]

You also have to consider what the thickness of the tile does to the
height of your counter wrt "upper" cabinets (as uppers tend to have limits
on where their tops can be located). Ceiling heights don't magically
increase just because you've lost some height to "floor thickness".

Likewise, counter heights have to consider under-the-counter appliances
(e.g., dishwasher, compactor, slide-ins, etc.). We've had to carefully
plan to ensure we could get these things in and out after the counters are
in place (lifting countertops to do so is not an option!).

[This actually cased some unexpected problems with the WC's as they
were designed to fit *under* certain other things.]

In article ,
"Ashton Crusher" wrote:

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 07:53:51 -0400, "dadiOH"
wrote:

Best order for refurbishing house

I will most likely be moving and will be redoing the house to make it
ready for sale. What's the best order for doing these things... I'm
thinking it's the order listed below.

- interior paint
-redo shower/tub
- flooring
- cabinets/counters

redo shower/tub (if there will be paint above shower tiles, paint there
first)
interior paint
cabinets/counters
flooring (unless you want it UNDER the cabinets)



Having read thru all the replies that seems to be more or less the
consensus and seems like a reasonable way to go.

I'm not so sure. I came in late to the thread so I may have missed
something though.

Interior paint should be last in my experience to avoid dinging it up
when doing the other work. The prep work can be done while you're doing
the other work.

As others have said though, check with local realtors to see if you will
get your investment back. Of course, if the house sells quicker, and you
"lose" a couple of thousand, then you may be better off.

Charles

Wood, vinyl/linoleum and BATHROOM (ceramic) tile are smooth, level
surfaces. There is good dimensional repeatability (unless you've a
truly "rustic" wood floor/trip hazzard)

Floors are rarely level, even in brand new construction.

I was extremely careful about framing everything level and square when we
built our house. But by the time we got to the cabinets, the lumber had
shrunk, things settle, etc. so the kitchen floor was no longer level.
Older homes are usually much worse.

[Yeah, you can shim so the cabinets don't "rock", but the toe kick
reveal will still highlight the "non-flatness" of the floor -- just
like laying a square/straightedge across the surface! Note your toe
kick is much wider than any single cabinet so you are now dealing with
highs and lows over a 6, 8, 10, 12 ft span!]

As mentioned above, shimming is almost always necessary to get the
cabinets level, regardless of what surface you mount them on.

Our ceramic tile have a very deliberate texture to their surface and
beveled/rounded edges. I.e., there's a noticeable distance between
the top of the highest point in the texture (which is the LOWEST point
for the cabinetry to rest on the tile surface) and the lowest point in
a grout line. Put a (VERY LONG!) straight edge across that surface
and all you see are these highs and lows accentuated against that
straight line.

Floors and walls are rarely flat. There are usually bows, dips, ripples,
or textures you have to deal with.

You install the cabinets, shimming to get them all level and plumb. Then
you install the toekick board to cover the bottom of the cabinets. It's a
fairly simple matter to scribe the bottom of the board to match any
unevenness in the floor.

In my case, I beveled the backside of the toekick board at a 45 degree
angle. That left a nice sharp edge on the front of the toekick board that
easily conforms to minor imperfections with a bit of downward pressure.

If the flooring has larger bumps and gaps, you would just scribe the
board to match.

Unless your floor is REALLY out of level, you're not going to notice a
1/2 inch to 1 inch difference in the slopes, especially back under the
toe kick area.

Fitting the tile gives the same sort of finished appearance.

Most people are likely to replace cabinets and/or appliances before they
would replace a tile floor. If the cabinets are on top of the tile,
that's easy to do. If the tile was an afterthought, you'll have a lot of
gaps to deal with.

Also, unless you build custom cabinets, most stock cabinets are designed
to provide a 36" counter height from the top of the flooring. If you
install tile AFTER installing the cabinets, your counter top will end up
lower in relation to the floor. Especially if you add backer board and
thick tiles.

The tile looks like it was mated to the cabinetry instead of the
cabinetry appearing as an afterthought.

Most tile comes in 2", 6", or 12" squares/rectangles/etc.. Cabinets often
vary in dimension, but even modular cabinets will vary a bit depending on
the shimming needed along uneven walls.

There's no guarantee the tile and cabinets will line up visually
regardless of which comes first.

Yes, you could spend the time to line up the grout lines with existing
cabinets, but you could just as easily plan out the tile layout before
the cabinets go in. It's just a matter of planning.

If you're trying to plan ahead, it would be wiser to have the front edge
of the cabinet land in the middle of a tile instead of trying to line it
up on a grout line. Your eye won't notice a 1/2 to 1 inch difference in
the middle of the tile. But if your cabinets line up with a grout line,
even a 1/4 inch misalignment will stand out. The same reason you try to
plan for half tiles along walls, so you don't end up with little narrow
tiles that would highlight imperfections.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com