On 2/12/2016 9:31 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 02/12/2016 01:01 PM, Muggles wrote:
Any time wipers are on? hmmm About half the people on the road here
MIGHT turn on their lights if it's raining. I usually do it, though.

That's mostly an eastern thing, afaik. Those Democrats need to be spoon
fed.

People drive like nuts in bad weather, and I usually turn on my lights.
We get some whopper storms, so, I kind of like to see where I'm going,
too. In mid-day those storms can turn everything dark as night, sometimes.
--
Maggie

On 2/12/2016 9:33 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 02/12/2016 02:07 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
The front wipers could be set at the longest interval, just to deal with
some road spray or mist, and then as soon as I put the van in reverse
to back
into a spot, the rear wiper starts flapping away. I find it more of a
distraction than a convenience.


Neat feature. My rear wiper comes on when I turn it on. I like it that way.

I have separate switches for front and rear wipers.

--
Maggie

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 20:04:29 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 02/12/2016 04:30 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
Those stupid things should be banned, they're a distraction. Lights are
to inform you of.... someone making a turn, an ambulance, etc, etc. If
everybody has lights, you no longer notice things you should, you don't
see unlit things like pedestrians, etc. In countries like Austria where
they did proper surveys, they found that they INCREASE accidents by 12%.


Absolutely. Running daytime lights on a bike probably doesn't buy you
much in terms of people seeing you but it's at least a little edge. When
everyone's lights are on that little edge goes away.

The edge does NOT go away. Wheather a bike or a car, SOMETHING is
occupying the road ahead coming your direction. Hitting a car head on
isn't going to do any less damage to you than hitting a bike - - -

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 20:30:18 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 02/12/2016 12:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I think you are correct, but lights are not just to see. They are to be
seen. Most states require 30 minutes before sunset, 30 minutes after
sunrise, any time wipers are on.

I think you have it backwards:

http://www.dmv.org/mt-montana/safety-laws.php

Headlights must be used:

30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes before sunrise.
When visibility, due to foul weather, is reduced to 500 ft or less.


From the ontario highway safety act:

When driving your vehicle, headlights are required to be turned on
between one-half hour before sunset and one-half hour after sunrise,
and any other time of poor light conditions, such as fog, snow or
rain, which keeps you from clearly seeing people or vehicles less than
150 metres away.
150 meters, by the way, is well over 150 feet. ( like about 165)

wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 20:30:18 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 02/12/2016 12:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I think you are correct, but lights are not just to see. They are
to be seen. Most states require 30 minutes before sunset, 30
minutes after sunrise, any time wipers are on.

I think you have it backwards:

http://www.dmv.org/mt-montana/safety-laws.php

Headlights must be used:

30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes before sunrise.
When visibility, due to foul weather, is reduced to 500 ft or
less.


From the ontario highway safety act:

When driving your vehicle, headlights are required to be turned on
between one-half hour before sunset and one-half hour after sunrise,
and any other time of poor light conditions, such as fog, snow or
rain, which keeps you from clearly seeing people or vehicles less than
150 metres away.
150 meters, by the way, is well over 150 feet. ( like about 165)

More like 3 times that.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 21:14:08 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 2/12/2016 8:51 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 16:16:42 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 2/12/2016 10:06 AM, KenK wrote:
Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

What about defective head/tail/signal lamps? I consciously notice which
lamps are lit (headlamp/running lamp/turn signal) each time I pull up
behind a vehicle with some of mine lit. Likewise, notice in the
rear view mirror if one side of the car behind me is "less red"
(from my brake lights) while we're sitting at a stop light.

Periodically will "linger" behind the car as we are exiting the
house and ask SWMBO (driving) to tap brakes, turn signals, etc.
so I can verify their operation.

How could you *not* "notice" that the light in front of your vehicle
is uneven" Or, that there is no "yellow glow" apparent alongside your
vehicle from your turn signal?

[Ans: because you're simply not noticing MOST of the things that you
SHOULD be noticing while driving!]
Virtually all vehicles will let you know if a signal is out by
changing the flash rate - either faster or no flash, depending on the
flasher used.

Perhaps in the days of thermoelectric flashers. Nowadays, when the
flasher is a few lines of code, I don't think that is likely to be the case!

Actually it is MORE likely to be the case - as bulb failure detection
becomes also just an extra line of code.

Thermoelectrics stop flashing or slow down. Electronics speed up when
a bulb goes out. And a very large number of new vehicles still depend
on a "flasher unit"

On 2/12/2016 8:07 PM, wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:



On;y a compete idiot woult not notice the instrument panel is dark too.
DRL do not really give you much to see by. The purpose it to be seen
under certain circumstances. "


I guess people are just that distracted nowadays.
Life is that hectic - folks working harder and longer
for less money, relative to a decades costs of
living.


Yeah, earning less is a reason not to put headlights on.

wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 21:14:08 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 2/12/2016 8:51 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 16:16:42 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 2/12/2016 10:06 AM, KenK wrote:
Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

What about defective head/tail/signal lamps? I consciously notice which
lamps are lit (headlamp/running lamp/turn signal) each time I pull up
behind a vehicle with some of mine lit. Likewise, notice in the
rear view mirror if one side of the car behind me is "less red"
(from my brake lights) while we're sitting at a stop light.

Periodically will "linger" behind the car as we are exiting the
house and ask SWMBO (driving) to tap brakes, turn signals, etc.
so I can verify their operation.

How could you *not* "notice" that the light in front of your vehicle
is uneven" Or, that there is no "yellow glow" apparent alongside your
vehicle from your turn signal?

[Ans: because you're simply not noticing MOST of the things that you
SHOULD be noticing while driving!]
Virtually all vehicles will let you know if a signal is out by
changing the flash rate - either faster or no flash, depending on the
flasher used.

Perhaps in the days of thermoelectric flashers. Nowadays, when the
flasher is a few lines of code, I don't think that is likely to be the case!

Actually it is MORE likely to be the case - as bulb failure detection
becomes also just an extra line of code.

Thermoelectrics stop flashing or slow down. Electronics speed up when
a bulb goes out. And a very large number of new vehicles still depend
on a "flasher unit"

That clicking sound when flasher is on.

Bob F wrote:
wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 20:30:18 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 02/12/2016 12:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I think you are correct, but lights are not just to see. They are
to be seen. Most states require 30 minutes before sunset, 30
minutes after sunrise, any time wipers are on.

I think you have it backwards:

http://www.dmv.org/mt-montana/safety-laws.php

Headlights must be used:

30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes before sunrise.
When visibility, due to foul weather, is reduced to 500 ft or
less.


From the ontario highway safety act:

When driving your vehicle, headlights are required to be turned on
between one-half hour before sunset and one-half hour after sunrise,
and any other time of poor light conditions, such as fog, snow or
rain, which keeps you from clearly seeing people or vehicles less than
150 metres away.
150 meters, by the way, is well over 150 feet. ( like about 165)

More like 3 times that.


Almost 500 feet.

On 02/12/2016 10:00 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
That clicking sound when flasher is on.

I'll have to pay attention but I don't believe my car makes any sound.
There is one turn I make frequently that is less than 90 degrees.
Sometimes the signal cancels, sometimes it doesn't but I'm thinking I
just see the icon flashing but don't hear a click.

On 02/12/2016 09:15 PM, wrote:
The reason DRLs are not mandatory in the USA is most Americans take
extreme offense at their government telling them what to do.

While that's true in general I don't think it applies to DRL's. Seat
belts require you to buckle them and the car makes obnoxious noises if
you exceed 10 mph with them unbuckled. DRL's just happen, so to speak.

Tell me I have to wear a motorcycle helmet when I choose not to and I
will be ****ed. When I start the bike and the headlight comes on I don't
even think about it other than to check it is on and the high beam works.

I've had two cars with DRL's and the only thing I found annoying was the
tail lights not coming on with them. That didn't make sense to me.

On 02/12/2016 09:20 PM, Don Y wrote:
Most of the roads *in* town have 45-55MPH speed limits. It's only
residential areas where it is reduced (to 25). Plus, we have these
silly "suicide lanes" (center lane shared by both directions of
traffic for left turns at places other than intersections) that add
to the entertainment ("Gee, I wonder where the NEXT vehicle will
come from?")

That was part of the safety enhancements. Turn a four lane street into
two lanes with a suicide lane a two very generous bike lanes. There are
quite a few places that require careful choreography to avoid a head on
as each driver tries to make a left.

At least we don't have the Tucson system where the direction of the lane
changes depending on the time of day.

On 02/12/2016 09:22 PM, wrote:
No it would not. The headlights stay on. Only the DRL goes out with
the parking brake on.

Sure, if the headlights are turned on. At dusk mine aren't.

On 02/12/2016 09:24 PM, wrote:
The edge does NOT go away. Wheather a bike or a car, SOMETHING is
occupying the road ahead coming your direction. Hitting a car head on
isn't going to do any less damage to you than hitting a bike - - -

Considering I'm the guy on the bike, I'd prefer some moron didn't hit me
head on, or what is much more common, blissfully make a left hand turn
in front of me because they 'didn't see' me. Car drivers only see other
cars. Anything smaller than a minivan is off their radar completely.
They *might* notice a headlight, but if it's just one little headlight
in a stream of DRL's, they're going to ignore it.

On 02/12/2016 09:28 PM, wrote:
When driving your vehicle, headlights are required to be turned on
between one-half hour before sunset and one-half hour after sunrise,
and any other time of poor light conditions, such as fog, snow or
rain, which keeps you from clearly seeing people or vehicles less than
150 metres away.
150 meters, by the way, is well over 150 feet. ( like about 165)

What can I say? We're cowboys in Montana and figure most drivers aren't
blind. Why the hell would you turn your headlights on before the sun
sets? Why not at high noon?

On 02/12/2016 09:28 PM, wrote:
150 meters, by the way, is well over 150 feet. ( like about 165)

More like 500... or 492 to be exact. I'm glad to see us Yanks are better
at converting metric to English than Canadians. I can even figure out
100 kph is 62 mph without a calculator. I will admit I throw my hands up
in despair at going from loonies per liter to dollars per gallon. I did
have the sneaky suspicion I was getting raped at the pump in Alberta and
it was better I didn't know exactly how badly.

On 2/12/2016 9:41 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 21:14:08 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 2/12/2016 8:51 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 16:16:42 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 2/12/2016 10:06 AM, KenK wrote:
Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

What about defective head/tail/signal lamps? I consciously notice which
lamps are lit (headlamp/running lamp/turn signal) each time I pull up
behind a vehicle with some of mine lit. Likewise, notice in the
rear view mirror if one side of the car behind me is "less red"
(from my brake lights) while we're sitting at a stop light.

Periodically will "linger" behind the car as we are exiting the
house and ask SWMBO (driving) to tap brakes, turn signals, etc.
so I can verify their operation.

How could you *not* "notice" that the light in front of your vehicle
is uneven" Or, that there is no "yellow glow" apparent alongside your
vehicle from your turn signal?

[Ans: because you're simply not noticing MOST of the things that you
SHOULD be noticing while driving!]
Virtually all vehicles will let you know if a signal is out by
changing the flash rate - either faster or no flash, depending on the
flasher used.

Perhaps in the days of thermoelectric flashers. Nowadays, when the
flasher is a few lines of code, I don't think that is likely to be the case!

Actually it is MORE likely to be the case - as bulb failure detection
becomes also just an extra line of code.

No. The bimetal strip form of flasher provides the indication as
a "pleasant side-effect" of its NORMAL operation.

- The bimetal strip must be sized to carry the load of the lamps.
- The current through the strip causes it to heat and, thus deflect
(opening the circuit, allowing it to cool and the cycle to repeat).
Less current (failed light) causes it to heat more slowly and
"blink longer".
- The dashboard indicator is "just another turn signal" as far as the
wiring is concerned -- nothing "special" to convey the normal
operation of the turn signals to the user *or* the "altered"
indication.

With an electronic drive, the normal "user" indication can be anything
you can create with your available "user interface". Many cars now
synthesize a "click-clack" sound to *simulate* the sound of the old
flasher unit (opening and closing that bimetal strip). This in
addition to any visual displays, tie-in's to other warning systems
(e.g., blind spot detector, lane deviation warning, etc.)

I.e., the "normal" indication isn't a natural consequence of the
wiring -- as it was with "dash indicator lamps" wired in parallel
with the actual front/rear turn signal indicators.

While the bimetal strip inherently sensed the amount of current
flowing through it as part of its design and reacted differently
based on that current (thus changing when the load changed), an
electronic drive has to explicitly sense *sense* that current is
being drawn (to know that ANY lamps are illuminated) and sense how
*much* if you want to be able to differentiate between "one lamp
load" and "two lamp loads".

Then, you have to convey this information to your "user interface"
where it must be presented to the user in a manner that makes it
apparent that you are indicating a "load change" (bulb failure).
Whether that is done by altering the numeric value used to specify
the "on time" and "off time" for the indicators (visual and audible)
or an "error message" displayed in the "information console"
(which has to be prioritized with any other competing messages)
is up to the designer. Do you adopt a common means of communicating
this information regardless of make/model vehicle? Do you *augment*
that "display" for vehicles that have more "verbose" display
media? etc.

It's not "free". Someone has to decide it is important to convey this
information and then figure out how to *get* it (sensing current,
sensing an open load, etc.).

E.g., you can sense the actual current flowing through a particular
load (LED/lamp). You can quantify this to any level of precision
that you deem is important (i.e., you can conceivably tell if a
5W lamp is installed instead of a 10W -- or 6W). Or, you can just
say: "A load of at least X is present, or not"

In a degenerate case, you can simply notice the OFF voltage at
the load while introducing a high impedance bias. I.e., shunt a
tiny amount of current AROUND your "switch" into the load at
all times. When "off", an intact load will look like a low impedance
overwhelming that high impedance shunt (voltage divider where
the load is so much lower impedance than the bias that *it*
governs the "measured voltage" at the divider). OTOH, an OPEN
load looks like an infinite impedance! So, the high impedance *shunt*
governs (voltage divider where the load is now infinite impedance
and the bias governs the measured voltage).

Or, you can sense the current flowing to/from the battery (to some
degree of precision) and try to correlate that with actions that
*you* are taking ("OK, I'm turning the light on... NOW! So, that
increase in current draw is PROBABLY a reflection of the current
being consumed in the lamp. If I'm right, it should decrease
when I turn the lamp off... NOW!"). But, this can be confused
if other "uncontrolled loads" are present (e.g., someone plugs
something into a "cigarette lighter" and you don't have an
explicit way of knowing this to compensate your other observations)

[I use this approach in my home automation system to infer what
users (occupants) are doing -- just by looking at the instantaneous
demands placed on the "utilities". E.g., water flowing at a certain
rate for a certain time while a user is located in a bathroom
suggests a toilet flush, not a shower! OTOH, I have no PROOF that
the water really was flushed and not just a "hand washing" that
happened to use the same amount of water flowing at the same
rate for the same length of time as a toilet flush!]

Thermoelectrics stop flashing or slow down. Electronics speed up when
a bulb goes out. And a very large number of new vehicles still depend
on a "flasher unit"

I suspect that is an obsolescent implementation. Our current vehicle
uses LED front and incandescent rear indicators. I've seen other
vehicles with far more elaborate (Tbird style) indicators and imagine
even higher levels of integration in the future.

I've not yet purchased a workshop manual for current vehicle so I haven't
had a chance to examine wiring diagrams, etc.

So, at the very least, it requires extra code, a flasher unit designed to
explicitly note the load change (as it is no longer relying on a
bimetal strip) *and* a path BACK to the electronic instrument cluster
that lets the vehicle KNOW that this has happened (to alter the
"A/V user display").

Much more "involved" and requiring explicit addition of that "feature"
than the "free side-effect" of a bimetallic flasher!

On 2/12/2016 11:40 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 02/12/2016 10:00 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
That clicking sound when flasher is on.

I'll have to pay attention but I don't believe my car makes any sound. There is
one turn I make frequently that is less than 90 degrees. Sometimes the signal
cancels, sometimes it doesn't but I'm thinking I just see the icon flashing but
don't hear a click.

Newer vehicles add a "sound effect". Probably to "be familiar" to drivers
accustomed to hearing the bimetal flasher. But, it also has value as
a non-visual indication: "Hey, idiot... your flasher is still on!"

[I've not invested any time to identify where the sound is sourced -- i.e.,
through a dedicated click-maker vs. through the entertainment system.]

On 2/13/2016 12:01 AM, rbowman wrote:
On 02/12/2016 09:24 PM, wrote:
The edge does NOT go away. Wheather a bike or a car, SOMETHING is
occupying the road ahead coming your direction. Hitting a car head on
isn't going to do any less damage to you than hitting a bike - - -

Considering I'm the guy on the bike, I'd prefer some moron didn't hit me head
on, or what is much more common, blissfully make a left hand turn in front of
me because they 'didn't see' me. Car drivers only see other cars. Anything
smaller than a minivan is off their radar completely. They *might* notice a
headlight, but if it's just one little headlight in a stream of DRL's, they're
going to ignore it.

People zone out when driving. They get "acclimated" to a particular
set of stimuli -- then tend to ignore it.

If you want to be noticed, you have to stand out by "being different".
E.g., a headlight that flashes, etc.

This is the rationale for every tweek to the safety equipment (e.g., now
center mounted brake lights *flash* when first applied; it's not enough
that they are UP HIGH, in your LINE OF SIGHT -- cuz you've gotten used
to seeing them there and now "tune them out".

On 2/12/2016 11:55 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 02/12/2016 09:20 PM, Don Y wrote:
Most of the roads *in* town have 45-55MPH speed limits. It's only
residential areas where it is reduced (to 25). Plus, we have these
silly "suicide lanes" (center lane shared by both directions of
traffic for left turns at places other than intersections) that add
to the entertainment ("Gee, I wonder where the NEXT vehicle will
come from?")

That was part of the safety enhancements. Turn a four lane street into two
lanes with a suicide lane a two very generous bike lanes. There are quite a few
places that require careful choreography to avoid a head on as each driver
tries to make a left.

The issue is that there are no "obvious" rules governing when/where you
should ENTER that lane! So, I could opt to start *driving* in it
(not just waiting to turn) long before I plan on actually turning.
This, of course, means anyone wanting to make a turn at any of the
places I "drive by" gets screwed into waiting (in their LEFTMOST
lane of traffic) until I've driven past.

At least we don't have the Tucson system where the direction of the lane
changes depending on the time of day.

No, that's primarily in D.C.

On Sat, 13 Feb 2016 00:39:08 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Sat, 13 Feb 2016 00:36:28 -0000, Micky wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:33:20 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:39:08 -0000, Micky wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 11:48:05 -0600, "Mr. Emann"
wrote:

On 2/12/2016 11:30 AM, philo wrote:

Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

The daylight running lights on my truck will turn off when the emergency
brake is set. If I want to turn them off I just push the emergency brake
pedal just far enough to turn off the lights but not enough to engage
the brakes.

Yeah, I finally found out how to run the engine with the lights off,
as you say, in case I want to surveil

My newsreader says that isn't a word, sounds cool though.

I'm not surprised. It's new-speak, from cop shows. I woudln't
normally use it but I was playing a role.

my girlfriend on a cold night,

Won't she hear the engine?

She's inside and I'm across the street and two houses down. It's a
quiet engine also.

But I've actually never done this.

I offered to go over to my ex-girlfriend's new boyfriend's house and
see if his car was there or not, after she had asked if I would. But
then she changed her mind.

And I did go to my dentist's home one night, after no one called me
back after I called his emergency number and the 3 office numbers, one
of which, based on the answering machine, seemed like it was his home
number instead. Unfortunately, he had a long not-straight driveway
and trees and I couldn't see if his car was there or not.

He called me the next morning, Saturday, at 11, but he called on my
cell, after I gave him that number only for Friday morning, and he
left a message that he was out of town and would call me when he got
back in a few hours. (Maybe he was in DC which is only an hour away).
But then he never called and never answered my email. He made two
other big mistakes in treatment that month too, the exact same mistake
twice. What a jerk.

Eventually I'm going to go to his office to get him to talk to me. If
he's embarrassed in front of his other patients, that would be fine.

But what if I want to turn the lights on when the car is not running?
A 2000 Toyota. I still don't know how to do that?

Use normal headlights like people did before all this bull****.

I already own the car and I own the headlights that are in it. There
is no room for a second set of headlights. So that won't work.

Huh? All cars have headlights. Operate the headlight switch. The headlights come on.

I don't think they do.

Nothing to do with the car being running or not.

The switch is on all the time, and the lights go on when the engine
goes on. The photocell on the dash determines which lights go on. But
maybe if I turn the switch off and back on again, the lights really
will go on even if the engine's not running. I'll try it. I had
this all settled two or three years ago, but then I forgot how it
works. This plan doens't ring a bell, but maybe.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/12/2016 1:20 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
Per KenK:
Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

Breeding more of them in your area too?

First thing I think of is people with much better night vision than I
have don't notice the lack of lights for awhile.


I think you are correct, but lights are not just to see. They are to be
seen. Most states require 30 minutes before sunset, 30 minutes after
sunrise, any time wipers are on.

Pa just put on the wiper ruling for a few years now. That overlaps the main
rule, put lights on in poor weather. It's a pain though to clean the window
LOL

Greg

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:01:43 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:32:46 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 22:52:32 -0000, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

On 02/12/2016 04:27 PM, wrote:

Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

What about tail lights? There are still many older cars/trucks on the
road yet.


My car is more than ten years old, but yes, there are cars out there
much older. At one time cars did not last very long
My 20 year old pickup had DRL

I see you have .ca email address. AFAIK, DRLs were required in Canada
long ago, but on our Canadian-built '02 Chrysler 300M DRLs weren't even
a factory-fitted option; I bought the module and plugged it in, and they
work.

They were not an option in "export" vehicles in 02 because some idiot
states still had laws on the books making them illegal, apparently.

At least on an Canadian built US market vehicle all you need to do is
plug in a module to make them work and make them legal for importation
into canada.
Many US built "domestic market" vehicles require a real bodge job to
get DRLs working to make them legal to import into Canada (along with
things like having to replace the inferior-spec bumpers etc).It used
to be quite a few US vehicles could not be imported into canada at all
because they could not be brought up to Canadian spec, but most of
them are now over 15 years old and allowed in. There are still some
that cannot be brought in - like 2005 2wd Jimmy/Blazer, any Lotus
other than 01-04 esprit,, Mercedes CLK63 Black Series or S500 Guard
Package, Tesla Model S, some Masaratti and McLaren, and quite a few
Saleen, Shelby and Roush Mustangs (if converted after sale - not
purchased from Ford as finished vehicles) and van conversions not done
by a recognized list of converters.

We just bought a 2008 Pontiac Vibe (re-badged Toyota Matrix) from a
Canadian friend who was returning to Canada and didn't want to have to
mess with beefing it up to Canadian standards on top of having to pay
import duty.

Can't he just drive it registered to the US? Like if you were on holiday?
Easy way to be charged with tax evasion - plus most likely driving
with no insurance since you cannot insure an american licenced vehicle
in Canada.

You have 6 months if visiting, and a couple weeks after importing to
change the registration.
Bringing a car across the border to stay without geclaring it is also
smuggling..

Anyone can pay taxes and fees.

It takes a real man to face smuggling charges.

Bad Jiu Jiu if you get caught.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:40:58 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 02/12/2016 01:22 PM, wrote:
My 20 year old pickup had DRL

Yes, but you're in Canada. I don't know when DRL's became mandatory in
Canada but they are not in the US. Some manufacturers installed them,
some did not. My 2007 Toyota had them; my 2011 does not. Go figure.

OT but my 2000 Solara has a driver's window that goes all the way down
with one push, but requires holding the button to go up.

My friend's '99 Rav4 had a button that went up or down with one push,
a year earlier, cheaper car, but better switch, IMO.


Since they are not illegal in the US I'm surprised they are not
installed across the board.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:31:49 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:38:53 -0000, Tony Hwang wrote:

philo wrote:
On 02/12/2016 11:25 AM, trader_4 wrote:



My car is set to automatic and the lights go on and off as needed.

That said, if it's very dark, it's odd they don't notice that they can't
see anything

This can't be much of a problem anymore, can it? The vast majority of
cars on the road now have daytime lights on, ie if the car is running
the lights are on. Not sure if it's a law though.
Probably should be though.




Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

What about tail lights? There are still many older cars/trucks on the
road yet.

An even stupider thing about daytime running lights is they don't turn the tail lights on, which means there are now loads of people driving around at night with only the front lights on, not realising they are unlit at the back. If you have no front lights on in the day, when it gets dark you notice.

I'll have to check on that too!

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:44:37 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/12/2016 6:31 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:


An even stupider thing about daytime running lights is they don't turn
the tail lights on, which means there are now loads of people driving
around at night with only the front lights on, not realising they are
unlit at the back. If you have no front lights on in the day, when it
gets dark you notice.


On;y a compete idiot woult not notice the instrument panel is dark too.

That's another strange thing about this 2000 Solara. When I let the
headlights turn on automatically, because I've started the engine, the
dash lights don't go on for another 10 seconds or so. I don't know
why it's not right away and I don't know what finally makes them go
on! It might be shifting into gear, but I have to check.


DRL do not really give you much to see by. The purpose it to be seen
under certain circumstances.

On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 11:12:50 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:38:29 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 7:44:36 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/12/2016 6:31 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:


An even stupider thing about daytime running lights is they don't turn
the tail lights on, which means there are now loads of people driving
around at night with only the front lights on, not realising they are
unlit at the back. If you have no front lights on in the day, when it
gets dark you notice.


On;y a compete idiot woult not notice the instrument panel is dark too.

That depends on the vehicle. I just checked the 2 cars that are home.

The 03 Element's dash is dark until the lights are turned on.

The 06 Ody's dash is lit whenever the car is running and actually gets dimmer
when the headlights are turned on.

The Oddity has an electronic display - right??

If you mean like a blank screen until the car is started, no. All gauges and indicators
are always visible. The gauges are backlit when the ignition is on and the indicators
light up.

http://media.caranddriver.com/images...s-1280x782.jpg


I'm not sure about the 07 Civic or the 05 Taurus. They're both away from home
getting their Master's degrees at this time. :-)


DRL do not really give you much to see by. The purpose it to be seen
under certain circumstances.

"rbowman" wrote in message
stuff snipped

Been there, done that, and had a hard time explaining to the cop that
headlights with no tail lights did not mean the tail lights were
defective.

I'm guessing that's at least part of why DRL's never gained wide
acceptance - they gave the cops probable cause to pull someone over and then
find a REAL reason to eff with them. Seems dippy to cut the rear lights
when the purpose of DRL's is to make a car more visible.

--
Bobby G.

On 02/13/2016 12:23 AM, Don Y wrote:
People zone out when driving. They get "acclimated" to a particular
set of stimuli -- then tend to ignore it.

If you want to be noticed, you have to stand out by "being different".
E.g., a headlight that flashes, etc.

This is the rationale for every tweek to the safety equipment (e.g., now
center mounted brake lights *flash* when first applied; it's not enough
that they are UP HIGH, in your LINE OF SIGHT -- cuz you've gotten used
to seeing them there and now "tune them out".

Brake lights should broadcast a wifi signal that flashes the
smartphone screens of the texting driver(s) behind you when
you apply the brakes. Or is there already an app for that?

Per Muggles:
Any time wipers are on? hmmm About half the people on the road here
MIGHT turn on their lights if it's raining. I usually do it, though.

On my first trip to Germany I was at the airport waiting for my ride and
noticed that the cars all had windshield wipers on their headlights.

WTF ? Thunk I.

A half hour later, I found myself in the passenger seat of a car doing
110 MPH in the rain at night....

Question answered....
--
Pete Cresswell

Brain fart - I was going by 50 ----On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 20:37:41 -0800,
"Bob F" wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 20:30:18 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 02/12/2016 12:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I think you are correct, but lights are not just to see. They are
to be seen. Most states require 30 minutes before sunset, 30
minutes after sunrise, any time wipers are on.

I think you have it backwards:

http://www.dmv.org/mt-montana/safety-laws.php

Headlights must be used:

30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes before sunrise.
When visibility, due to foul weather, is reduced to 500 ft or
less.


From the ontario highway safety act:

When driving your vehicle, headlights are required to be turned on
between one-half hour before sunset and one-half hour after sunrise,
and any other time of poor light conditions, such as fog, snow or
rain, which keeps you from clearly seeing people or vehicles less than
150 metres away.
150 meters, by the way, is well over 150 feet. ( like about 165)

More like 3 times that.

Brain fart - Almost 500nfeet ( I was going by 50 meters -)

On Sat, 13 Feb 2016 04:01:43 -0000, wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:32:46 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 22:52:32 -0000, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

On 02/12/2016 04:27 PM, wrote:

Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

What about tail lights? There are still many older cars/trucks on the
road yet.


My car is more than ten years old, but yes, there are cars out there
much older. At one time cars did not last very long
My 20 year old pickup had DRL

I see you have .ca email address. AFAIK, DRLs were required in Canada
long ago, but on our Canadian-built '02 Chrysler 300M DRLs weren't even
a factory-fitted option; I bought the module and plugged it in, and they
work.

They were not an option in "export" vehicles in 02 because some idiot
states still had laws on the books making them illegal, apparently.

At least on an Canadian built US market vehicle all you need to do is
plug in a module to make them work and make them legal for importation
into canada.
Many US built "domestic market" vehicles require a real bodge job to
get DRLs working to make them legal to import into Canada (along with
things like having to replace the inferior-spec bumpers etc).It used
to be quite a few US vehicles could not be imported into canada at all
because they could not be brought up to Canadian spec, but most of
them are now over 15 years old and allowed in. There are still some
that cannot be brought in - like 2005 2wd Jimmy/Blazer, any Lotus
other than 01-04 esprit,, Mercedes CLK63 Black Series or S500 Guard
Package, Tesla Model S, some Masaratti and McLaren, and quite a few
Saleen, Shelby and Roush Mustangs (if converted after sale - not
purchased from Ford as finished vehicles) and van conversions not done
by a recognized list of converters.

We just bought a 2008 Pontiac Vibe (re-badged Toyota Matrix) from a
Canadian friend who was returning to Canada and didn't want to have to
mess with beefing it up to Canadian standards on top of having to pay
import duty.

Can't he just drive it registered to the US? Like if you were on holiday?
Easy way to be charged with tax evasion - plus most likely driving
with no insurance since you cannot insure an american licenced vehicle
in Canada.

You have 6 months if visiting, and a couple weeks after importing to
change the registration.
Bringing a car across the border to stay without geclaring it is also
smuggling..

Bad Jiu Jiu if you get caught.

How absurd. Don't the Canadians trust the Americans? If it was ok in one country, it's ok in another one.

--
Mary had a little lamb
And nothing much besides.
She took it to the county fair
And got on all the rides.

For Mary was a clever girl
Both in and out of bed,
And the guys who didn't sample her
Took on the sheep instead.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:47:12 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 02/12/2016 09:15 PM, wrote:
The reason DRLs are not mandatory in the USA is most Americans take
extreme offense at their government telling them what to do.

While that's true in general I don't think it applies to DRL's. Seat
belts require you to buckle them and the car makes obnoxious noises if
you exceed 10 mph with them unbuckled. DRL's just happen, so to speak.

Tell me I have to wear a motorcycle helmet when I choose not to and I
will be ****ed. When I start the bike and the headlight comes on I don't
even think about it other than to check it is on and the high beam works.

I've had two cars with DRL's and the only thing I found annoying was the
tail lights not coming on with them. That didn't make sense to me.
You are one of the more rational. Back when DRLs were first proposed
you wouldn't believe how many people south of the border ranted and
raved about government intervention and forcing them to burn more
gas!!!!

On Sat, 13 Feb 2016 00:44:37 -0000, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/12/2016 6:31 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:


An even stupider thing about daytime running lights is they don't turn
the tail lights on, which means there are now loads of people driving
around at night with only the front lights on, not realising they are
unlit at the back. If you have no front lights on in the day, when it
gets dark you notice.

On;y a compete idiot woult not notice the instrument panel is dark too..

You should be looking at the road. I virtually never check my instrument panel. It's a car not a bloody aircraft.

DRL do not really give you much to see by. The purpose it to be seen
under certain circumstances.

You'd think so, but about 50% of cars with DRL have them as bright or brighter than dipped beam, hence it IS enough to see by.

--
The skeleton found in the car park has been confirmed to be that of Richard III, but one question remains unanswered:
Who did I pay £20,000 on Ebay for?

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:56:56 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 02/12/2016 09:22 PM, wrote:
No it would not. The headlights stay on. Only the DRL goes out with
the parking brake on.

Sure, if the headlights are turned on. At dusk mine aren't.
If anything the headlights on our Taurus come on earlier than
required, rather than later.

On Sat, 13 Feb 2016 04:10:59 -0000, wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:44:37 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/12/2016 6:31 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:


An even stupider thing about daytime running lights is they don't turn
the tail lights on, which means there are now loads of people driving
around at night with only the front lights on, not realising they are
unlit at the back. If you have no front lights on in the day, when it
gets dark you notice.


On;y a compete idiot woult not notice the instrument panel is dark too.
DRL do not really give you much to see by. The purpose it to be seen
under certain circumstances.
What most detractors fail to realise is most DRLs run at half
intensity.

They should be the same brightness as sidelights if you have to have the pointless things.

--
Men have two emotions: Hungry and Horny. If you see him without a boner, make him a sandwich.

On Sat, 13 Feb 2016 01:07:55 -0000, wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"On 2/12/2016 6:31 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:


An even stupider thing about daytime running lights is they don't turn
the tail lights on, which means there are now loads of people driving
around at night with only the front lights on, not realising they are
unlit at the back. If you have no front lights on in the day, when it
gets dark you notice.


On;y a compete idiot woult not notice the instrument panel is dark too.
DRL do not really give you much to see by. The purpose it to be seen
under certain circumstances. "


I guess people are just that distracted nowadays.
Life is that hectic - folks working harder and longer
for less money, relative to a decades costs of
living.

Mass production, robotics, etc, etc we should be working less!

--
Connecticut police are investigating a string of shootings where clues are reportedly contained in a rap CD.
They are also questioning Bob Marley about the shooting of a sheriff.

On Sat, 13 Feb 2016 00:01:58 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 02/12/2016 09:24 PM, wrote:
The edge does NOT go away. Wheather a bike or a car, SOMETHING is
occupying the road ahead coming your direction. Hitting a car head on
isn't going to do any less damage to you than hitting a bike - - -

Considering I'm the guy on the bike, I'd prefer some moron didn't hit me
head on, or what is much more common, blissfully make a left hand turn
in front of me because they 'didn't see' me. Car drivers only see other
cars. Anything smaller than a minivan is off their radar completely.
They *might* notice a headlight, but if it's just one little headlight
in a stream of DRL's, they're going to ignore it.

Ignore it and it ends up being a 50,000 lb peterbuilt with a blown
headlight???

On Sat, 13 Feb 2016 11:01:21 -0000, Micky wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:44:37 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/12/2016 6:31 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:


An even stupider thing about daytime running lights is they don't turn
the tail lights on, which means there are now loads of people driving
around at night with only the front lights on, not realising they are
unlit at the back. If you have no front lights on in the day, when it
gets dark you notice.


On;y a compete idiot woult not notice the instrument panel is dark too.

That's another strange thing about this 2000 Solara. When I let the
headlights turn on automatically, because I've started the engine, the
dash lights don't go on for another 10 seconds or so. I don't know
why it's not right away and I don't know what finally makes them go
on! It might be shifting into gear, but I have to check.

That's so it doesn't inform you you're low on gas until you've driven out of your drive, then you have to go back in to get your wallet. It's doing it to annoy you.

--
Why do people point to their wrist when asking for the time, but don't point to their crotch when asking where the bathroom is?

On Sat, 13 Feb 2016 00:04:09 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 02/12/2016 09:28 PM, wrote:
When driving your vehicle, headlights are required to be turned on
between one-half hour before sunset and one-half hour after sunrise,
and any other time of poor light conditions, such as fog, snow or
rain, which keeps you from clearly seeing people or vehicles less than
150 metres away.
150 meters, by the way, is well over 150 feet. ( like about 165)

What can I say? We're cowboys in Montana and figure most drivers aren't
blind. Why the hell would you turn your headlights on before the sun
sets? Why not at high noon?
Long before DRLs were required here in Canada many trucking companies
made it MANDATORY that their drivers drove with full headlights 24
hours of the day. Get caught with no headlights and you were
penalized. Three times and you were GONE.