On 02/12/2016 01:22 PM, wrote:
My 20 year old pickup had DRL

Yes, but you're in Canada. I don't know when DRL's became mandatory in
Canada but they are not in the US. Some manufacturers installed them,
some did not. My 2007 Toyota had them; my 2011 does not. Go figure.
Since they are not illegal in the US I'm surprised they are not
installed across the board.

On 02/12/2016 04:31 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
An even stupider thing about daytime running lights is they don't turn
the tail lights on, which means there are now loads of people driving
around at night with only the front lights on, not realising they are
unlit at the back. If you have no front lights on in the day, when it
gets dark you notice.

Been there, done that, and had a hard time explaining to the cop that
headlights with no tail lights did not mean the tail lights were
defective. That I had to explain how it worked speaks to the relatively
few vehicles with DRL's here.

On 02/12/2016 05:44 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On;y a compete idiot woult not notice the instrument panel is dark too.

Um, in my Toyota the instrument panel is ALWAYS illuminated. When you
turn the headlights on it goes through the dimmer so my instrument panel
is actually darker when the lights are on.

On 02/12/2016 04:33 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:48:05 -0000, Mr. Emann wrote:

On 2/12/2016 11:30 AM, philo wrote:

Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

The daylight running lights on my truck will turn off when the emergency
brake is set. If I want to turn them off I just push the emergency brake
pedal just far enough to turn off the lights but not enough to engage
the brakes.

So people who use the emergency/hand/parking brake at junctions will
make their lights go on and off, that's really stupid.


It does have its drawbacks. My Toyota with DRL's did that and it was a
manual transmission. When I come home at night I stop at the cluster
mailbox to get the mail. If it's dusk or full dark, I sort through my
keys in front of the headlight. With that feature, I'd shift into
neutral, put the handbrake on, and my light source would go off.

On 02/12/2016 10:44 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Since the average age of cars on the road these days is about 11.4 years (roughly where my Ody lands) is it safe to say that the "vast majority"
of cars on the road now have daytime running lights? I don't know...just
curious.

Not a lot in this state. My 2007 Toyota had DRLs, but the 2011 of the
same model doesn't. I imagine in 2007 they were covering their butt to
see how GM's petition to make them mandatory came out. When the NHTSA
denied the petition in 2009 they figured it was safe to drop them.

On 02/12/2016 02:56 PM, Mark Storkamp wrote:
There was a time if you wanted to get lynched, just drive into an
astronomy star party with your lights on. Or let your dome light come
on. Older cars were easier to make dark, but now you've got to learn all
the right fuses to pull.

I used to like to run dark on moonlit nights and turn the lights on when
someone was approaching. It was amusing in a car but it was a real blast
with an 18 wheeler that suddenly appeared lit up like a Christmas tree.
Not that I would do anything that foolish anymore...

On 02/12/2016 04:30 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
Those stupid things should be banned, they're a distraction. Lights are
to inform you of.... someone making a turn, an ambulance, etc, etc. If
everybody has lights, you no longer notice things you should, you don't
see unlit things like pedestrians, etc. In countries like Austria where
they did proper surveys, they found that they INCREASE accidents by 12%.


Absolutely. Running daytime lights on a bike probably doesn't buy you
much in terms of people seeing you but it's at least a little edge. When
everyone's lights are on that little edge goes away.

On 02/12/2016 11:38 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
My kneejerk reaction is "What do they think I'm going to do, shove them
up my ass?"

Grind it up and snort it. Works the charm for some prescription drugs...

On 02/12/2016 11:23 AM, Don Y wrote:
Many "blocks" are very long. E.g., the crosswalks at the street
onto which ours connects are probably 0.25 mi apart. So, folks
really tend to avoid "crossing at the nearest crosswalk".

We had the perfect setup. Fleabag motel on one side of a 4 lane major
street, bucket of blood gin mill on the other side, no handy crosswalk
for the convenience of the patrons. After a few bums got shuffled off
the mortal coil, they redid the street to two lanes and lowered the
speed limit to 35. The situation improved briefly when the gin mill went
out of business. But then they tore it down and built a homeless shelter
on the spot. Shortly after that a microbrewery opened across the street
from the homeless shelter so we're back where we started.

Another section of road had the limit reduced to 35 after a fatal
accident. It must have been the speed limit even though the motorist
drove up on the sidewalk to nail the pedestrian. The motorist wasn't
charged although there was a strong suspicion she was texting, doing her
nails, or something.

On 02/12/2016 01:08 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
Is it my imagination that the color of the car is always silver or some
shade that matches with conditions at the time (fog, etc)?

I always enjoyed being on a LA freeway at those rare times when it was
raining hard. All those little gray cars with no lights disappeared into
the road spray. I wasn't too concerned though. I was in an
eighteen-wheeler so I'd just put a Slayer tape in the deck and boogie on.

On 02/12/2016 11:20 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
First thing I think of is people with much better night vision than I
have don't notice the lack of lights for awhile.

I tend to push the envelope. If I can see a pine tree on a mountain 5
miles away I don't need no stinkin' lights regardless of where the sun
might be.

On 02/12/2016 12:46 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I think you are correct, but lights are not just to see. They are to be
seen. Most states require 30 minutes before sunset, 30 minutes after
sunrise, any time wipers are on.

I think you have it backwards:

http://www.dmv.org/mt-montana/safety-laws.php

Headlights must be used:

30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes before sunrise.
When visibility, due to foul weather, is reduced to 500 ft or less.

On 02/12/2016 01:01 PM, Muggles wrote:
Any time wipers are on? hmmm About half the people on the road here
MIGHT turn on their lights if it's raining. I usually do it, though.

That's mostly an eastern thing, afaik. Those Democrats need to be spoon fed.

On 02/12/2016 02:07 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
The front wipers could be set at the longest interval, just to deal with
some road spray or mist, and then as soon as I put the van in reverse to back
into a spot, the rear wiper starts flapping away. I find it more of a
distraction than a convenience.


Neat feature. My rear wiper comes on when I turn it on. I like it that way.

On 02/12/2016 12:41 PM, Oren wrote:
In south Florida, Alligator Alley (now I-75) signs tell you to turn on
lights during the day. ~80 miles straight line. Sometimes you might
see a mirage

We've got a few roads like that. They're two lane and passing is legal.
When everyone is moving a 70+, you can close the distance with an
oncoming car pretty fast if you didn't see it before you started your pass.

On 02/12/2016 01:28 PM, burfordTjustice wrote:
You should have stopped, open the drivers door
dragged out the driver and beat the snot out of
him/her for that offence.


That would work really well in this state...

On 02/12/2016 05:20 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/12/2016 6:28 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:


If you can't see an unlit car, you need to either see an optician or
stop driving immediately. When I see someone like that I just flash to
remind them to put them on.


How would you know you have not seen an unlit car?

When it eliminates you from the gene pool?

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:52:32 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 02/12/2016 04:27 PM, wrote:

Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

What about tail lights? There are still many older cars/trucks on the
road yet.


My car is more than ten years old, but yes, there are cars out there
much older. At one time cars did not last very long
My 20 year old pickup had DRL

I see you have .ca email address. AFAIK, DRLs were required in Canada
long ago, but on our Canadian-built '02 Chrysler 300M DRLs weren't even
a factory-fitted option; I bought the module and plugged it in, and they
work.

They were not an option in "export" vehicles in 02 because some idiot
states still had laws on the books making them illegal, apparently.

At least on an Canadian built US market vehicle all you need to do is
plug in a module to make them work and make them legal for importation
into canada.
Many US built "domestic market" vehicles require a real bodge job to
get DRLs working to make them legal to import into Canada (along with
things like having to replace the inferior-spec bumpers etc).It used
to be quite a few US vehicles could not be imported into canada at all
because they could not be brought up to Canadian spec, but most of
them are now over 15 years old and allowed in. There are still some
that cannot be brought in - like 2005 2wd Jimmy/Blazer, any Lotus
other than 01-04 esprit,, Mercedes CLK63 Black Series or S500 Guard
Package, Tesla Model S, some Masaratti and McLaren, and quite a few
Saleen, Shelby and Roush Mustangs (if converted after sale - not
purchased from Ford as finished vehicles) and van conversions not done
by a recognized list of converters.

We just bought a 2008 Pontiac Vibe (re-badged Toyota Matrix) from a
Canadian friend who was returning to Canada and didn't want to have to
mess with beefing it up to Canadian standards on top of having to pay
import duty.

Perce
No import duty on american built vehicles into Canada (or Canadian
into USA) - just HST and perhaps AC excise tax

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:04:38 -0600, Sam E
wrote:

On 02/12/2016 11:44 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[snip]
v
Since the average age of cars on the road these days is about 11.4 years (roughly where my Ody lands) is it safe to say that the "vast majority"
of cars on the road now have daytime running lights? I don't know...just
curious.

"Average age of automobiles: The R.L. Polk Co., Average Age of Vehicles on the Road Remains Steady at 11.4 years, According to IHS Automotive, available at http://press.ihs.com/news_releases/automotive as of May 26, 2015."


I'm above average. My vehicle is 17.1 years old. :-)

BTW, it does have DRL.
Mine is 20, wife's ia 14.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 16:16:42 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 2/12/2016 10:06 AM, KenK wrote:
Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

What about defective head/tail/signal lamps? I consciously notice which
lamps are lit (headlamp/running lamp/turn signal) each time I pull up
behind a vehicle with some of mine lit. Likewise, notice in the
rear view mirror if one side of the car behind me is "less red"
(from my brake lights) while we're sitting at a stop light.

Periodically will "linger" behind the car as we are exiting the
house and ask SWMBO (driving) to tap brakes, turn signals, etc.
so I can verify their operation.

How could you *not* "notice" that the light in front of your vehicle
is uneven" Or, that there is no "yellow glow" apparent alongside your
vehicle from your turn signal?

[Ans: because you're simply not noticing MOST of the things that you
SHOULD be noticing while driving!]
Virtually all vehicles will let you know if a signal is out by
changing the flash rate - either faster or no flash, depending on the
flasher used.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:28:20 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:06:25 -0000, KenK wrote:


Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

Breeding more of them in your area too?

Sorry to bother you all. Had to vent somewhere.

If you can't see an unlit car, you need to either see an optician or stop driving immediately. When I see someone like that I just flash to remind them to put them on.
Driving down an unlit road in fog or rain or blowing snow you don't
see them untill you are virtually on top of them. (it can be bad
enough when they are lit - particularly if the lights are covered in
dirt or snow)

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:28:37 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:14:13 -0000, philo wrote:

On 02/12/2016 11:06 AM, KenK wrote:
Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

Breeding more of them in your area too?

Sorry to bother you all. Had to vent somewhere.





My car is set to automatic and the lights go on and off as needed.

That said, if it's very dark, it's odd they don't notice that they can't
see anything

Not everybody has brand new fancy cars.
As I just said in another message - mine is 20 years old (and
believe it or not MOST of the lamps are still original - along with
the rear brakes, exhaust, alternator, starter, ball joints and
steering parts, etc at 340,000+ Km)

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:30:08 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:25:09 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 12:14:18 PM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 02/12/2016 11:06 AM, KenK wrote:
Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

Breeding more of them in your area too?

Sorry to bother you all. Had to vent somewhere.

My car is set to automatic and the lights go on and off as needed.

That said, if it's very dark, it's odd they don't notice that they can't
see anything

This can't be much of a problem anymore, can it? The vast majority of
cars on the road now have daytime lights on, ie if the car is running
the lights are on. Not sure if it's a law though.
Probably should be though.

Those stupid things should be banned, they're a distraction. Lights are to inform you of.... someone making a turn, an ambulance, etc, etc. If everybody has lights, you no longer notice things you should, you don't see unlit things like pedestrians, etc. In countries like Austria where they did proper surveys, they found that they INCREASE accidents by 12%.
Mr Parrott. you are crazy.
Daylighting makes ALL vehicles more visible.. If other cars on the
road are a distraction to you, you should quit driving and stay aff
the road.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:30:39 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:30:29 -0000, philo wrote:

On 02/12/2016 11:25 AM, trader_4 wrote:



My car is set to automatic and the lights go on and off as needed.

That said, if it's very dark, it's odd they don't notice that they can't
see anything

This can't be much of a problem anymore, can it? The vast majority of
cars on the road now have daytime lights on, ie if the car is running
the lights are on. Not sure if it's a law though.
Probably should be though.

Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

Disconnect the stupid things. If the car moans about it, connect a dummy load under the hood where it can't distract other road users.
Id10t

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:31:49 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:38:53 -0000, Tony Hwang wrote:

philo wrote:
On 02/12/2016 11:25 AM, trader_4 wrote:



My car is set to automatic and the lights go on and off as needed.

That said, if it's very dark, it's odd they don't notice that they can't
see anything

This can't be much of a problem anymore, can it? The vast majority of
cars on the road now have daytime lights on, ie if the car is running
the lights are on. Not sure if it's a law though.
Probably should be though.




Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

What about tail lights? There are still many older cars/trucks on the
road yet.

An even stupider thing about daytime running lights is they don't turn the tail lights on, which means there are now loads of people driving around at night with only the front lights on, not realising they are unlit at the back. If you have no front lights on in the day, when it gets dark you notice.
You don't have lights on your speedo and other guages either, dummy.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:32:46 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 22:52:32 -0000, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

On 02/12/2016 04:27 PM, wrote:

Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

What about tail lights? There are still many older cars/trucks on the
road yet.


My car is more than ten years old, but yes, there are cars out there
much older. At one time cars did not last very long
My 20 year old pickup had DRL

I see you have .ca email address. AFAIK, DRLs were required in Canada
long ago, but on our Canadian-built '02 Chrysler 300M DRLs weren't even
a factory-fitted option; I bought the module and plugged it in, and they
work.

They were not an option in "export" vehicles in 02 because some idiot
states still had laws on the books making them illegal, apparently.

At least on an Canadian built US market vehicle all you need to do is
plug in a module to make them work and make them legal for importation
into canada.
Many US built "domestic market" vehicles require a real bodge job to
get DRLs working to make them legal to import into Canada (along with
things like having to replace the inferior-spec bumpers etc).It used
to be quite a few US vehicles could not be imported into canada at all
because they could not be brought up to Canadian spec, but most of
them are now over 15 years old and allowed in. There are still some
that cannot be brought in - like 2005 2wd Jimmy/Blazer, any Lotus
other than 01-04 esprit,, Mercedes CLK63 Black Series or S500 Guard
Package, Tesla Model S, some Masaratti and McLaren, and quite a few
Saleen, Shelby and Roush Mustangs (if converted after sale - not
purchased from Ford as finished vehicles) and van conversions not done
by a recognized list of converters.

We just bought a 2008 Pontiac Vibe (re-badged Toyota Matrix) from a
Canadian friend who was returning to Canada and didn't want to have to
mess with beefing it up to Canadian standards on top of having to pay
import duty.

Can't he just drive it registered to the US? Like if you were on holiday?
Easy way to be charged with tax evasion - plus most likely driving
with no insurance since you cannot insure an american licenced vehicle
in Canada.

You have 6 months if visiting, and a couple weeks after importing to
change the registration.
Bringing a car across the border to stay without geclaring it is also
smuggling..

Bad Jiu Jiu if you get caught.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:33:49 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:48:05 -0000, Mr. Emann wrote:

On 2/12/2016 11:30 AM, philo wrote:

Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

The daylight running lights on my truck will turn off when the emergency
brake is set. If I want to turn them off I just push the emergency brake
pedal just far enough to turn off the lights but not enough to engage
the brakes.

So people who use the emergency/hand/parking brake at junctions will make their lights go on and off, that's really stupid.
Apparently not as stupid as you.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 16:30:12 -0800 (PST), Andy
wrote:

On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 11:25:21 AM UTC-6, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 12:14:18 PM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 02/12/2016 11:06 AM, KenK wrote:
Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

Breeding more of them in your area too?

Sorry to bother you all. Had to vent somewhere.





My car is set to automatic and the lights go on and off as needed.

That said, if it's very dark, it's odd they don't notice that they can't
see anything

This can't be much of a problem anymore, can it? The vast majority of
cars on the road now have daytime lights on, ie if the car is running
the lights are on. Not sure if it's a law though.
Probably should be though.

I do not like cars with forced lights.

Shortens lifespan of expensive bulbs.

Andy
I'd have to dissagree with you, as my 1996 Ford ranger with DLRs has
340,000+km on it and still has the origional headlight bulbs.

IF the average speed of the vehicle was 100kph (very very unlikely -
more likely closer to half that) the headlights have been on for 3400
hours. (a large percentage of that at reduced output - which os hard
on halide lamps)

On 2/12/2016 8:08 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 02/12/2016 11:38 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
My kneejerk reaction is "What do they think I'm going to do, shove them
up my ass?"

Grind it up and snort it. Works the charm for some prescription drugs...

Actually, works great for *most* formulations -- *if* your goal is
to get it into your bloodstream in the shortest amount of time!

On 2/12/2016 7:40 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 02/12/2016 01:22 PM, wrote:
My 20 year old pickup had DRL

Yes, but you're in Canada. I don't know when DRL's became mandatory in Canada
but they are not in the US. Some manufacturers installed them, some did not. My
2007 Toyota had them; my 2011 does not. Go figure. Since they are not illegal
in the US I'm surprised they are not installed across the board.

Different attitude towards "government".

I can recall demoing some kit for some "ministry" official
(details long lost) in the mid 70's. They sent a car to
fetch me.
"Please fasten your seat belt"
"Oh, no thanks. I find them too confining..."
"It's the law."
"WTF?? You can't make me... (hmm... best not forget who I'm talking
to!) I mean, Wow, that's interesting!"

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:44:37 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/12/2016 6:31 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:


An even stupider thing about daytime running lights is they don't turn
the tail lights on, which means there are now loads of people driving
around at night with only the front lights on, not realising they are
unlit at the back. If you have no front lights on in the day, when it
gets dark you notice.


On;y a compete idiot woult not notice the instrument panel is dark too.
DRL do not really give you much to see by. The purpose it to be seen
under certain circumstances.
What most detractors fail to realise is most DRLs run at half
intensity.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:38:29 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 7:44:36 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/12/2016 6:31 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:


An even stupider thing about daytime running lights is they don't turn
the tail lights on, which means there are now loads of people driving
around at night with only the front lights on, not realising they are
unlit at the back. If you have no front lights on in the day, when it
gets dark you notice.


On;y a compete idiot woult not notice the instrument panel is dark too.

That depends on the vehicle. I just checked the 2 cars that are home.

The 03 Element's dash is dark until the lights are turned on.

The 06 Ody's dash is lit whenever the car is running and actually gets dimmer
when the headlights are turned on.

The Oddity has an electronic display - right??

I'm not sure about the 07 Civic or the 05 Taurus. They're both away from home
getting their Master's degrees at this time. :-)


DRL do not really give you much to see by. The purpose it to be seen
under certain circumstances.

On 2/12/2016 8:51 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 16:16:42 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 2/12/2016 10:06 AM, KenK wrote:
Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

What about defective head/tail/signal lamps? I consciously notice which
lamps are lit (headlamp/running lamp/turn signal) each time I pull up
behind a vehicle with some of mine lit. Likewise, notice in the
rear view mirror if one side of the car behind me is "less red"
(from my brake lights) while we're sitting at a stop light.

Periodically will "linger" behind the car as we are exiting the
house and ask SWMBO (driving) to tap brakes, turn signals, etc.
so I can verify their operation.

How could you *not* "notice" that the light in front of your vehicle
is uneven" Or, that there is no "yellow glow" apparent alongside your
vehicle from your turn signal?

[Ans: because you're simply not noticing MOST of the things that you
SHOULD be noticing while driving!]
Virtually all vehicles will let you know if a signal is out by
changing the flash rate - either faster or no flash, depending on the
flasher used.

Perhaps in the days of thermoelectric flashers. Nowadays, when the
flasher is a few lines of code, I don't think that is likely to be the case!

On 02/12/2016 08:58 PM, wrote:
You don't have lights on your speedo and other guages either, dummy.

Wrong at least for my Toyota. The instrument display is always illuminated.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:37:12 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 02/12/2016 10:25 AM, trader_4 wrote:
This can't be much of a problem anymore, can it? The vast majority of
cars on the road now have daytime lights on, ie if the car is running
the lights are on. Not sure if it's a law though.
Probably should be though.

It may be a law in some states although I think in most of those the law
is the lights must be on if the wipers are active. The NHTSA is neutral
but shot down a GM proposal to make them mandatory in 2009.

My 2007 Toyota had them, the 2011 does not. I had a cop stop me one
evening at dusk. I came out of work and the DRL were bright enough in
the dusk that I didn't think to turn the headlights on. He saw the
headlights and no tail lights and concluded my tail lights were out. I'd
had a couple of people tell me the tail lights were out in similar
circumstances. Same deal, light enough that lights weren't required but
they'd see the head lights on and assume the tail lights were broken.

NHTSA's reluctance to take a stand stems from the lack of conclusive
studies that show DRL's to decrease accidents. Most bikes for the last
20 or more years have always on headlights, the theory being the light
would make the bike stand out in traffic. If it's just another headlight
in a sea of headlights any advantage goes away. Idiot cagers don't see
bikes anyway so I ride like I'm invisible.
The reason DRLs are not mandatory in the USA is most Americans take
extreme offense at their government telling them what to do.

rbowman wrote:
On 02/12/2016 08:58 PM, wrote:
You don't have lights on your speedo and other guages either, dummy.

Wrong at least for my Toyota. The instrument display is always illuminated.

Night time it just dims. Mirrors do the same. Gauge cluster illuminates
when ign. is on, goes dark when ign. is off.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:40:58 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 02/12/2016 01:22 PM, wrote:
My 20 year old pickup had DRL

Yes, but you're in Canada. I don't know when DRL's became mandatory in
Canada but they are not in the US. Some manufacturers installed them,
some did not. My 2007 Toyota had them; my 2011 does not. Go figure.
Since they are not illegal in the US I'm surprised they are not
installed across the board.
They were not installed on many vehicles for the US market because
many people were stupid enough to NOT BUY the vehicle with DRLs just
because it had DRLs. That was the result of marketting studies done by
Toyota and others. So Corollas built in Cambridge for the US market
don't get the module installed - or have the function dissabled in the
BCU

Not sure but I believe the same is true of the Civic built in
Alliston Ontario for the US market.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:44:50 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 02/12/2016 04:31 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
An even stupider thing about daytime running lights is they don't turn
the tail lights on, which means there are now loads of people driving
around at night with only the front lights on, not realising they are
unlit at the back. If you have no front lights on in the day, when it
gets dark you notice.

Been there, done that, and had a hard time explaining to the cop that
headlights with no tail lights did not mean the tail lights were
defective. That I had to explain how it worked speaks to the relatively
few vehicles with DRL's here.
And the "ignorance" of law enforcement officers

On 2/12/2016 8:19 PM, rbowman wrote:
On 02/12/2016 11:23 AM, Don Y wrote:
Many "blocks" are very long. E.g., the crosswalks at the street
onto which ours connects are probably 0.25 mi apart. So, folks
really tend to avoid "crossing at the nearest crosswalk".

We had the perfect setup. Fleabag motel on one side of a 4 lane major street,
bucket of blood gin mill on the other side, no handy crosswalk for the
convenience of the patrons. After a few bums got shuffled off the mortal coil,
they redid the street to two lanes and lowered the speed limit to 35. The
situation improved briefly when the gin mill went out of business. But then
they tore it down and built a homeless shelter on the spot. Shortly after that
a microbrewery opened across the street from the homeless shelter so we're back
where we started.

Another section of road had the limit reduced to 35 after a fatal accident. It
must have been the speed limit even though the motorist drove up on the
sidewalk to nail the pedestrian. The motorist wasn't charged although there was
a strong suspicion she was texting, doing her nails, or something.

Most of the roads *in* town have 45-55MPH speed limits. It's only
residential areas where it is reduced (to 25). Plus, we have these
silly "suicide lanes" (center lane shared by both directions of
traffic for left turns at places other than intersections) that add
to the entertainment ("Gee, I wonder where the NEXT vehicle will
come from?")

AFAICT, most pedestrian accidents aren't the fault of an "impaired"
pedestrian -- unless you consider lack of common sense to be an impairment!

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:53:41 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 02/12/2016 04:33 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:48:05 -0000, Mr. Emann wrote:

On 2/12/2016 11:30 AM, philo wrote:

Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

The daylight running lights on my truck will turn off when the emergency
brake is set. If I want to turn them off I just push the emergency brake
pedal just far enough to turn off the lights but not enough to engage
the brakes.

So people who use the emergency/hand/parking brake at junctions will
make their lights go on and off, that's really stupid.


It does have its drawbacks. My Toyota with DRL's did that and it was a
manual transmission. When I come home at night I stop at the cluster
mailbox to get the mail. If it's dusk or full dark, I sort through my
keys in front of the headlight. With that feature, I'd shift into
neutral, put the handbrake on, and my light source would go off.

No it would not. The headlights stay on. Only the DRL goes out with
the parking brake on.
DR:s are not headlights. In MOST cases they use the headlight bulb but
run at roughly half output. Some (like Chrysler Minivans) use the side
marker (AKA parking) lamps