On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 12:26:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/12/2016 12:06 PM, KenK wrote:
Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

Breeding more of them in your area too?

Sorry to bother you all. Had to vent somewhere.



It is a peeve of mine too. I figure it is just stupidity. Fortunately,
many cars now have automatic lights that overcome dumb drivers.

Last week I was on the highway on a dark, rainy, early morning. The
blind spot detection lit up. Since I was alone on the road I figured
the rain was giving a false reading. Nope, some idiot with no lights on
passed me.
At least here in Canada with DRL laws, unless its
1) an OLD car
2) a car with electrical problems
3) someone driving with thepark light on
or
4) a "Yankee"

You will see him from the front - but not from behind.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 11:30:29 -0600, philo wrote:

On 02/12/2016 11:25 AM, trader_4 wrote:



My car is set to automatic and the lights go on and off as needed.

That said, if it's very dark, it's odd they don't notice that they can't
see anything

This can't be much of a problem anymore, can it? The vast majority of
cars on the road now have daytime lights on, ie if the car is running
the lights are on. Not sure if it's a law though.
Probably should be though.




Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely
Pull the parking brake on - - - - - - -

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 11:41:57 -0600, philo wrote:

On 02/12/2016 11:38 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:




Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

What about tail lights? There are still many older cars/trucks on the
road yet.


My car is more than ten years old, but yes, there are cars out there
much older. At one time cars did not last very long
My 20 year old pickup had DRL

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 11:55:39 -0600, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 09:25:09 -0800 (PST), trader_4 wrote:

On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 12:14:18 PM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 02/12/2016 11:06 AM, KenK wrote:
Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

Breeding more of them in your area too?

Sorry to bother you all. Had to vent somewhere.





My car is set to automatic and the lights go on and off as needed.

That said, if it's very dark, it's odd they don't notice that they can't
see anything

This can't be much of a problem anymore, can it? The vast majority of
cars on the road now have daytime lights on, ie if the car is running
the lights are on. Not sure if it's a law though.
Probably should be though.

Daytime running lights ore on by default. They can be turned off by request at the dealer. I imagine if the dealer can do it
the owner could as well if they investigated.
Requires specialized body computer programming device to reprogam the
BCM - and in Canada it's illegat to defeat them.

On 12 Feb 2016 17:06:25 GMT
KenK wrote:


Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this
morning. Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs
easier without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen
many more of them in the past year for some reason.

Breeding more of them in your area too?

Sorry to bother you all. Had to vent somewhere.




You should have stopped, open the drivers door
dragged out the driver and beat the snot out of
him/her for that offence.

On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 1:58:03 PM UTC-5, wrote:
KenK:

Their heads are obviously not
about driving. No lights, and
no blinkers are my biggest
peeves.

When I taught my kids to drive I told them that they should be courteous to
the drivers behind them by signalling their intention to turn *before*
stepping on the brake.

My biggest peeve is having someone apply their brakes and slow down as they
approach an intersection or driveway and then put their blinker on just
before they turn. I should be able to sit in my car and say:

"Oh, look...his blinker is on. He is probably going to slow down and then
turn. Yep...there are the brakes lights."

Instead of:

"Brake lights? Why is he slowing down? There is no one in front of him.
Oh...there's his blinker. Idiot."

On 02/12/2016 03:22 PM, wrote:

Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

What about tail lights? There are still many older cars/trucks on the
road yet.


My car is more than ten years old, but yes, there are cars out there
much older. At one time cars did not last very long
My 20 year old pickup had DRL

I see you have .ca email address. AFAIK, DRLs were required in Canada
long ago, but on our Canadian-built '02 Chrysler 300M DRLs weren't even
a factory-fitted option; I bought the module and plugged it in, and they
work.

Perce

On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 12:56:44 PM UTC-5, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 09:25:09 -0800 (PST), trader_4 wrote:

On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 12:14:18 PM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 02/12/2016 11:06 AM, KenK wrote:
Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

Breeding more of them in your area too?

Sorry to bother you all. Had to vent somewhere.





My car is set to automatic and the lights go on and off as needed.

That said, if it's very dark, it's odd they don't notice that they can't
see anything

This can't be much of a problem anymore, can it? The vast majority of
cars on the road now have daytime lights on, ie if the car is running
the lights are on. Not sure if it's a law though.
Probably should be though.

Daytime running lights ore on by default. They can be turned off by request at the dealer. I imagine if the dealer can do it
the owner could as well if they investigated.

Perhaps if the owner had the computer that the dealer had.

Even some of the newer remote start units have to be programmed by the
installer using a computer. No more using key-fob sequences to set the
horn or run time options like in the "old days".

Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 10:29:27 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

philo wrote:
On 02/12/2016 11:06 AM, KenK wrote:
Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this
morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs
easier without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen
many more of them in the past year for some reason.

Breeding more of them in your area too?

Sorry to bother you all. Had to vent somewhere.





My car is set to automatic and the lights go on and off as needed.

That said, if it's very dark, it's odd they don't notice that they
can't see anything

There are so many absent minded jerks.

That's what happens when idiots try to make the world so safe that
nobody is at risk with anything.

I'm not saying let's kill all the stupid people. I'm just saying
let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself
out.

Yeah! Who cares about the innocent others that get killed.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
any time wipers are on.

That's one I never heard of.

On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 3:58:19 PM UTC-5, Bob F wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
any time wipers are on.

That's one I never heard of.

NYS law states that headlights must be used when the wipers are used. It only
makes sense to make it "automatic". I wouldn't mind that feature, but I don't
even have DRL on my Ody. I drive with the lights on 100% of the time anyway.

No DRL, but I do have a rear wiper that comes on whenever the front wipers
are on and the van is put in reverse. Totally annoying!

The front wipers could be set at the longest interval, just to deal with
some road spray or mist, and then as soon as I put the van in reverse to back
into a spot, the rear wiper starts flapping away. I find it more of a
distraction than a convenience.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 15:40:39 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:

On 02/12/2016 03:22 PM, wrote:

Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

What about tail lights? There are still many older cars/trucks on the
road yet.


My car is more than ten years old, but yes, there are cars out there
much older. At one time cars did not last very long
My 20 year old pickup had DRL

I see you have .ca email address. AFAIK, DRLs were required in Canada
long ago, but on our Canadian-built '02 Chrysler 300M DRLs weren't even
a factory-fitted option; I bought the module and plugged it in, and they
work.

Perce
They were not an option in "export" vehicles in 02 because some idiot
states still had laws on the books making them illegal, apparently.

At least on an Canadian built US market vehicle all you need to do is
plug in a module to make them work and make them legal for importation
into canada.
Many US built "domestic market" vehicles require a real bodge job to
get DRLs working to make them legal to import into Canada (along with
things like having to replace the inferior-spec bumpers etc).It used
to be quite a few US vehicles could not be imported into canada at all
because they could not be brought up to Canadian spec, but most of
them are now over 15 years old and allowed in. There are still some
that cannot be brought in - like 2005 2wd Jimmy/Blazer, any Lotus
other than 01-04 esprit,, Mercedes CLK63 Black Series or S500 Guard
Package, Tesla Model S, some Masaratti and McLaren, and quite a few
Saleen, Shelby and Roush Mustangs (if converted after sale - not
purchased from Ford as finished vehicles) and van conversions not done
by a recognized list of converters.

In article ,
John Albert wrote:

On 2/12/16 12:55 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
Daytime running lights ore on by default. They can be turned off by request
at the dealer. I imagine if the dealer can do it
the owner could as well if they investigated.

On my Toyota RAV4 (2013), there is a position on the light switch
"below" the "DRL" position (daytime running lights) that turns ALL the
lights off.

No lights at all (just like the old days) ...

There was a time if you wanted to get lynched, just drive into an
astronomy star party with your lights on. Or let your dome light come
on. Older cars were easier to make dark, but now you've got to learn all
the right fuses to pull.

On 02/12/2016 04:27 PM, wrote:

Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

What about tail lights? There are still many older cars/trucks on the
road yet.


My car is more than ten years old, but yes, there are cars out there
much older. At one time cars did not last very long
My 20 year old pickup had DRL

I see you have .ca email address. AFAIK, DRLs were required in Canada
long ago, but on our Canadian-built '02 Chrysler 300M DRLs weren't even
a factory-fitted option; I bought the module and plugged it in, and they
work.

They were not an option in "export" vehicles in 02 because some idiot
states still had laws on the books making them illegal, apparently.

At least on an Canadian built US market vehicle all you need to do is
plug in a module to make them work and make them legal for importation
into canada.
Many US built "domestic market" vehicles require a real bodge job to
get DRLs working to make them legal to import into Canada (along with
things like having to replace the inferior-spec bumpers etc).It used
to be quite a few US vehicles could not be imported into canada at all
because they could not be brought up to Canadian spec, but most of
them are now over 15 years old and allowed in. There are still some
that cannot be brought in - like 2005 2wd Jimmy/Blazer, any Lotus
other than 01-04 esprit,, Mercedes CLK63 Black Series or S500 Guard
Package, Tesla Model S, some Masaratti and McLaren, and quite a few
Saleen, Shelby and Roush Mustangs (if converted after sale - not
purchased from Ford as finished vehicles) and van conversions not done
by a recognized list of converters.

We just bought a 2008 Pontiac Vibe (re-badged Toyota Matrix) from a
Canadian friend who was returning to Canada and didn't want to have to
mess with beefing it up to Canadian standards on top of having to pay
import duty.

Perce

On 02/12/2016 11:44 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[snip]
v
Since the average age of cars on the road these days is about 11.4 years (roughly where my Ody lands) is it safe to say that the "vast majority"
of cars on the road now have daytime running lights? I don't know...just
curious.

"Average age of automobiles: The R.L. Polk Co., Average Age of Vehicles on the Road Remains Steady at 11.4 years, According to IHS Automotive, available at http://press.ihs.com/news_releases/automotive as of May 26, 2015."


I'm above average. My vehicle is 17.1 years old. :-)

BTW, it does have DRL.

--
"I'm trying to free your mind, but I can only show you the door. You're
the one who has to walk through." -- Morpheus - ("The Matrix")

On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 4:56:34 PM UTC-5, Mark Storkamp wrote:
In article ,
John Albert wrote:

On 2/12/16 12:55 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
Daytime running lights ore on by default. They can be turned off by request
at the dealer. I imagine if the dealer can do it
the owner could as well if they investigated.

On my Toyota RAV4 (2013), there is a position on the light switch
"below" the "DRL" position (daytime running lights) that turns ALL the
lights off.

No lights at all (just like the old days) ...

There was a time if you wanted to get lynched, just drive into an
astronomy star party with your lights on. Or let your dome light come
on. Older cars were easier to make dark, but now you've got to learn all
the right fuses to pull.

The light pollution problem is not a thing of the past.

The oil boom in Texas is a bust for some astronomers.

http://www.texastribune.org/2015/06/...rs-cut-lights/

On 2/12/2016 10:06 AM, KenK wrote:
Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

What about defective head/tail/signal lamps? I consciously notice which
lamps are lit (headlamp/running lamp/turn signal) each time I pull up
behind a vehicle with some of mine lit. Likewise, notice in the
rear view mirror if one side of the car behind me is "less red"
(from my brake lights) while we're sitting at a stop light.

Periodically will "linger" behind the car as we are exiting the
house and ask SWMBO (driving) to tap brakes, turn signals, etc.
so I can verify their operation.

How could you *not* "notice" that the light in front of your vehicle
is uneven" Or, that there is no "yellow glow" apparent alongside your
vehicle from your turn signal?

[Ans: because you're simply not noticing MOST of the things that you
SHOULD be noticing while driving!]

On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 6:04:43 PM UTC-5, Sam E wrote:
On 02/12/2016 11:44 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

[snip]
v
Since the average age of cars on the road these days is about 11.4 years (roughly where my Ody lands) is it safe to say that the "vast majority"
of cars on the road now have daytime running lights? I don't know...just
curious.

"Average age of automobiles: The R.L. Polk Co., Average Age of Vehicles on the Road Remains Steady at 11.4 years, According to IHS Automotive, available at http://press.ihs.com/news_releases/automotive as of May 26, 2015."


I'm above average. My vehicle is 17.1 years old. :-)

BTW, it does have DRL.


I'm just on this side of the average - 4 vehicles averaging 10.75 years old,
but one of them is on the far side.

SWMBO picked up this beauty last July.

2003 AWD Honda Element EX
69K miles (no, I didn't drop the 1)
Single owner (retired engineer)
Florida car
$6800

Sweet! (No DRL)

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/q...psqkz60szv.jpg

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:06:25 -0000, KenK wrote:


Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

Breeding more of them in your area too?

Sorry to bother you all. Had to vent somewhere.

If you can't see an unlit car, you need to either see an optician or stop driving immediately. When I see someone like that I just flash to remind them to put them on.

--
"Take off lid and push up bottom." (From a stick deodorant label)

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:14:13 -0000, philo wrote:

On 02/12/2016 11:06 AM, KenK wrote:
Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

Breeding more of them in your area too?

Sorry to bother you all. Had to vent somewhere.





My car is set to automatic and the lights go on and off as needed.

That said, if it's very dark, it's odd they don't notice that they can't
see anything

Not everybody has brand new fancy cars.

--
If you believe in telepathy, raise my hand.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:25:09 -0000, trader_4 wrote:

On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 12:14:18 PM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 02/12/2016 11:06 AM, KenK wrote:
Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

Breeding more of them in your area too?

Sorry to bother you all. Had to vent somewhere.

My car is set to automatic and the lights go on and off as needed.

That said, if it's very dark, it's odd they don't notice that they can't
see anything

This can't be much of a problem anymore, can it? The vast majority of
cars on the road now have daytime lights on, ie if the car is running
the lights are on. Not sure if it's a law though.
Probably should be though.

Those stupid things should be banned, they're a distraction. Lights are to inform you of.... someone making a turn, an ambulance, etc, etc. If everybody has lights, you no longer notice things you should, you don't see unlit things like pedestrians, etc. In countries like Austria where they did proper surveys, they found that they INCREASE accidents by 12%.

--
If you believe in telepathy, raise my hand.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:30:29 -0000, philo wrote:

On 02/12/2016 11:25 AM, trader_4 wrote:



My car is set to automatic and the lights go on and off as needed.

That said, if it's very dark, it's odd they don't notice that they can't
see anything

This can't be much of a problem anymore, can it? The vast majority of
cars on the road now have daytime lights on, ie if the car is running
the lights are on. Not sure if it's a law though.
Probably should be though.

Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

Disconnect the stupid things. If the car moans about it, connect a dummy load under the hood where it can't distract other road users.

--
A man walks into a bar with a slab of asphalt under his arm and says, "A beer please, and one for the road."

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:38:53 -0000, Tony Hwang wrote:

philo wrote:
On 02/12/2016 11:25 AM, trader_4 wrote:



My car is set to automatic and the lights go on and off as needed.

That said, if it's very dark, it's odd they don't notice that they can't
see anything

This can't be much of a problem anymore, can it? The vast majority of
cars on the road now have daytime lights on, ie if the car is running
the lights are on. Not sure if it's a law though.
Probably should be though.




Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

What about tail lights? There are still many older cars/trucks on the
road yet.

An even stupider thing about daytime running lights is they don't turn the tail lights on, which means there are now loads of people driving around at night with only the front lights on, not realising they are unlit at the back. If you have no front lights on in the day, when it gets dark you notice.

--
A sheet of sandpaper makes a cheap and effective substitute for costly maps when visiting the Sahara desert.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 22:52:32 -0000, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

On 02/12/2016 04:27 PM, wrote:

Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

What about tail lights? There are still many older cars/trucks on the
road yet.


My car is more than ten years old, but yes, there are cars out there
much older. At one time cars did not last very long
My 20 year old pickup had DRL

I see you have .ca email address. AFAIK, DRLs were required in Canada
long ago, but on our Canadian-built '02 Chrysler 300M DRLs weren't even
a factory-fitted option; I bought the module and plugged it in, and they
work.

They were not an option in "export" vehicles in 02 because some idiot
states still had laws on the books making them illegal, apparently.

At least on an Canadian built US market vehicle all you need to do is
plug in a module to make them work and make them legal for importation
into canada.
Many US built "domestic market" vehicles require a real bodge job to
get DRLs working to make them legal to import into Canada (along with
things like having to replace the inferior-spec bumpers etc).It used
to be quite a few US vehicles could not be imported into canada at all
because they could not be brought up to Canadian spec, but most of
them are now over 15 years old and allowed in. There are still some
that cannot be brought in - like 2005 2wd Jimmy/Blazer, any Lotus
other than 01-04 esprit,, Mercedes CLK63 Black Series or S500 Guard
Package, Tesla Model S, some Masaratti and McLaren, and quite a few
Saleen, Shelby and Roush Mustangs (if converted after sale - not
purchased from Ford as finished vehicles) and van conversions not done
by a recognized list of converters.

We just bought a 2008 Pontiac Vibe (re-badged Toyota Matrix) from a
Canadian friend who was returning to Canada and didn't want to have to
mess with beefing it up to Canadian standards on top of having to pay
import duty.

Can't he just drive it registered to the US? Like if you were on holiday?

--
Everyone has a photographic memory, some just don't have film.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:39:08 -0000, Micky wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 11:48:05 -0600, "Mr. Emann"
wrote:

On 2/12/2016 11:30 AM, philo wrote:

Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

The daylight running lights on my truck will turn off when the emergency
brake is set. If I want to turn them off I just push the emergency brake
pedal just far enough to turn off the lights but not enough to engage
the brakes.

Yeah, I finally found out how to run the engine with the lights off,
as you say, in case I want to surveil my girlfriend on a cold night,

But what if I want to turn the lights on when the car is not running?
A 2000 Toyota. I still don't know how to do that?

Use normal headlights like people did before all this bull****.

--
The best way to insulate your home is with a big pile of fridge-foam aerosol cans:
Just fill the entire house with foam and tunnel to the bits you need to get to, pack rat style.

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 17:48:05 -0000, Mr. Emann wrote:

On 2/12/2016 11:30 AM, philo wrote:

Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

The daylight running lights on my truck will turn off when the emergency
brake is set. If I want to turn them off I just push the emergency brake
pedal just far enough to turn off the lights but not enough to engage
the brakes.

So people who use the emergency/hand/parking brake at junctions will make their lights go on and off, that's really stupid.

--
Peter is listening to "Aerosmith - Living on the edge"

On 2/12/2016 3:40 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:


I see you have .ca email address. AFAIK, DRLs were required in Canada
long ago, but on our Canadian-built '02 Chrysler 300M DRLs weren't even
a factory-fitted option; I bought the module and plugged it in, and they
work.

Perce

Saving a buck not putting the module in is more important than extra
visibility.

On 2/12/2016 6:28 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:


If you can't see an unlit car, you need to either see an optician or
stop driving immediately. When I see someone like that I just flash to
remind them to put them on.


How would you know you have not seen an unlit car?

On Sat, 13 Feb 2016 00:20:44 -0000, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/12/2016 6:28 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:

If you can't see an unlit car, you need to either see an optician or
stop driving immediately. When I see someone like that I just flash to
remind them to put them on.

How would you know you have not seen an unlit car?

Because I would have hit it.

Or a serious answer, they're as easy to see as pedestrians, which are almost always unlit.

Or stating the obvious, cars reflect light, like any object does, so the streetlamps or your own lights make it visible.

--
In the 1400's a law was set forth that a man was not allowed to beat his wife with a stick thicker than his thumb. Hence we have the "rule of thumb".

On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 11:25:21 AM UTC-6, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 12:14:18 PM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 02/12/2016 11:06 AM, KenK wrote:
Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

Breeding more of them in your area too?

Sorry to bother you all. Had to vent somewhere.





My car is set to automatic and the lights go on and off as needed.

That said, if it's very dark, it's odd they don't notice that they can't
see anything

This can't be much of a problem anymore, can it? The vast majority of
cars on the road now have daytime lights on, ie if the car is running
the lights are on. Not sure if it's a law though.
Probably should be though.

I do not like cars with forced lights.

Shortens lifespan of expensive bulbs.

Andy

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:33:20 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:39:08 -0000, Micky wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 11:48:05 -0600, "Mr. Emann"
wrote:

On 2/12/2016 11:30 AM, philo wrote:

Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

The daylight running lights on my truck will turn off when the emergency
brake is set. If I want to turn them off I just push the emergency brake
pedal just far enough to turn off the lights but not enough to engage
the brakes.

Yeah, I finally found out how to run the engine with the lights off,
as you say, in case I want to surveil my girlfriend on a cold night,

But what if I want to turn the lights on when the car is not running?
A 2000 Toyota. I still don't know how to do that?

Use normal headlights like people did before all this bull****.

I already own the car and I own the headlights that are in it. There
is no room for a second set of headlights. So that won't work.

On Sat, 13 Feb 2016 00:36:28 -0000, Micky wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 23:33:20 -0000, "Mr Macaw" wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 19:39:08 -0000, Micky wrote:

On Fri, 12 Feb 2016 11:48:05 -0600, "Mr. Emann"
wrote:

On 2/12/2016 11:30 AM, philo wrote:

Yes, even with my lights in the "off" position there are still "running
lights". I don't know if there is anyway to turn them off completely

The daylight running lights on my truck will turn off when the emergency
brake is set. If I want to turn them off I just push the emergency brake
pedal just far enough to turn off the lights but not enough to engage
the brakes.

Yeah, I finally found out how to run the engine with the lights off,
as you say, in case I want to surveil

My newsreader says that isn't a word, sounds cool though.

my girlfriend on a cold night,

Won't she hear the engine?

But what if I want to turn the lights on when the car is not running?
A 2000 Toyota. I still don't know how to do that?

Use normal headlights like people did before all this bull****.

I already own the car and I own the headlights that are in it. There
is no room for a second set of headlights. So that won't work.

Huh? All cars have headlights. Operate the headlight switch. The headlights come on. Nothing to do with the car being running or not.

--
A hard-on doesn't count as personal growth.

On 2/12/2016 6:30 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:


Those stupid things should be banned, they're a distraction. Lights are
to inform you of.... someone making a turn, an ambulance, etc, etc. If
everybody has lights, you no longer notice things you should, you don't
see unlit things like pedestrians, etc. In countries like Austria where
they did proper surveys, they found that they INCREASE accidents by 12%.

Austria is not mentioned, but overall, accidents are reduced.

http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/811029.pdf

A majority of the European studies consistently found that a DRL law was
associated with a
reduction in crashes. The effects varied from 4 percent to 27 percent
depending on crash type,
crash severity, season, roadway conditions, and light conditions. The
DRL effects found in the
U.S. studies were less consistent and more uncertain
European Studies
A 1976 study in Finland found that DRLs would reduce daytime
multi-vehicle crashes and
pedestrian/pedalcyclist crashes on rural roads by 21 percent.12 A 1981
study in Sweden based on
two years pre-law and two years post-law data concluded that the DRL law
would reduce
daytime crashes by 11 percent, pedestrian/cyclist crashes by 17 percent,
and bicycle/moped
crashes by 21 percent.13 In Norway, a 1993 study by Elvik14
found that DRLs would reduce
daytime multi-vehicle crashes by 15 percent in the summer. However, the
same study found that
DRLs had no effects on multi-vehicle crashes in the winter. Also, there
was no effect on crashes
involving pedestrians or motorcyclists. None of the results were
statistically significant.
Two studies in 1993 and 1995 evaluating Denmark's 1990 DRL law showed
consistent results.
These studies concluded that two years after enactment of the law, DRLs
reduced daytime
multiple-vehicle crashes by 6 to 7 percent, and reduced
motor-vehicle-to-pedalcyclist crashes by
4 percent. However, the second study also showed that DRLs significantly
increased motor
vehicle-to-pedestrian crashes by 16 percent.15 16

Canadian Studies
Sparks 1993 study20
which examined Canadian government fleet data found that DRLs reduced
twilight, two-vehicle crashes by 15 percent. The effect was
statistically significant. Two reports
produced by Transport Canada also showed positive DRL effects. Of these,
Arora et al.21
concluded in 1994 that DRLs significantly reduced daytime two-vehicle
opposite direction

U.S. Studies
In contrast, DRL effects from U.S. studies were less consistent. DRLs
are not required in the
United States, thus all studies in the United States were
vehicle-fleet-based analyses. In 2000,
NHTSA conducted a preliminary study23
to evaluate the effects of DRLs. The estimated effects
ranged from -8 to 2 percent for fatal two-vehicle opposite-direction
crashes, 5 to 7 percent for
non-fatal crashes, and 28-29 percent for single-vehicle-to-pedestrian
crashes. The range of
effects primarily resulted from two different statistics. In 2005, the
agency reexamined the
effectiveness of DRLs using the same statistical techniques as in the
2000 report but used a
different set of crash data.24
Conclusions from this updated study were similar to those in the
earlier study: -7.9 to 5 percent for daytime two-vehicle opposite and
angle crashes, 3.8 to 12
percent for single-vehicle-to-pedestrian/cyclist crashes, and 23 to 26
percent for single-vehicleto-motorcycle
crashes.

On 02/12/2016 06:28 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:

Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this
morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

Breeding more of them in your area too?

Sorry to bother you all. Had to vent somewhere.

If you can't see an unlit car, you need to either see an optician or
stop driving immediately. When I see someone like that I just flash to
remind them to put them on.

I am reminded of some drivers in the UK 60 years ago (when I don't think
the law yet prescribed *what* lights were to be used after "lighting up
time") who insisted on driving on unlit roads with only parking lights
on and said, "If you can't see with parking lights on, you shouldn't be
driving."

Perce

On 2/12/2016 6:31 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:


An even stupider thing about daytime running lights is they don't turn
the tail lights on, which means there are now loads of people driving
around at night with only the front lights on, not realising they are
unlit at the back. If you have no front lights on in the day, when it
gets dark you notice.


On;y a compete idiot woult not notice the instrument panel is dark too.
DRL do not really give you much to see by. The purpose it to be seen
under certain circumstances.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

"On 2/12/2016 6:31 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:


An even stupider thing about daytime running lights is they don't turn
the tail lights on, which means there are now loads of people driving
around at night with only the front lights on, not realising they are
unlit at the back. If you have no front lights on in the day, when it
gets dark you notice.


On;y a compete idiot woult not notice the instrument panel is dark too.
DRL do not really give you much to see by. The purpose it to be seen
under certain circumstances. "


I guess people are just that distracted nowadays.
Life is that hectic - folks working harder and longer
for less money, relative to a decades costs of
living.

On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 7:44:36 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 2/12/2016 6:31 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:


An even stupider thing about daytime running lights is they don't turn
the tail lights on, which means there are now loads of people driving
around at night with only the front lights on, not realising they are
unlit at the back. If you have no front lights on in the day, when it
gets dark you notice.


On;y a compete idiot woult not notice the instrument panel is dark too.

That depends on the vehicle. I just checked the 2 cars that are home.

The 03 Element's dash is dark until the lights are turned on.

The 06 Ody's dash is lit whenever the car is running and actually gets dimmer
when the headlights are turned on.

I'm not sure about the 07 Civic or the 05 Taurus. They're both away from home
getting their Master's degrees at this time. :-)


DRL do not really give you much to see by. The purpose it to be seen
under certain circumstances.

On 2/12/2016 7:25 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:
On Sat, 13 Feb 2016 00:20:44 -0000, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 2/12/2016 6:28 PM, Mr Macaw wrote:

If you can't see an unlit car, you need to either see an optician or
stop driving immediately. When I see someone like that I just flash to
remind them to put them on.

How would you know you have not seen an unlit car?

Because I would have hit it.

Or a serious answer, they're as easy to see as pedestrians, which are
almost always unlit.

Or stating the obvious, cars reflect light, like any object does, so the
streetlamps or your own lights make it visible.


But will you see it in time?

On 02/12/2016 10:25 AM, trader_4 wrote:
This can't be much of a problem anymore, can it? The vast majority of
cars on the road now have daytime lights on, ie if the car is running
the lights are on. Not sure if it's a law though.
Probably should be though.

It may be a law in some states although I think in most of those the law
is the lights must be on if the wipers are active. The NHTSA is neutral
but shot down a GM proposal to make them mandatory in 2009.

My 2007 Toyota had them, the 2011 does not. I had a cop stop me one
evening at dusk. I came out of work and the DRL were bright enough in
the dusk that I didn't think to turn the headlights on. He saw the
headlights and no tail lights and concluded my tail lights were out. I'd
had a couple of people tell me the tail lights were out in similar
circumstances. Same deal, light enough that lights weren't required but
they'd see the head lights on and assume the tail lights were broken.

NHTSA's reluctance to take a stand stems from the lack of conclusive
studies that show DRL's to decrease accidents. Most bikes for the last
20 or more years have always on headlights, the theory being the light
would make the bike stand out in traffic. If it's just another headlight
in a sea of headlights any advantage goes away. Idiot cagers don't see
bikes anyway so I ride like I'm invisible.

On 2/12/2016 7:30 PM, Andy wrote:
On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 11:25:21 AM UTC-6, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, February 12, 2016 at 12:14:18 PM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 02/12/2016 11:06 AM, KenK wrote:
Just about pulled out in front of a car with lights out early this morning.
Not even parking lights. A few seconds earlier...

Why do these people drive with lights out? Save gas - engine runs easier
without generating electricity for lights? Seems I've seen many more of
them in the past year for some reason.

Breeding more of them in your area too?

Sorry to bother you all. Had to vent somewhere.





My car is set to automatic and the lights go on and off as needed.

That said, if it's very dark, it's odd they don't notice that they can't
see anything

This can't be much of a problem anymore, can it? The vast majority of
cars on the road now have daytime lights on, ie if the car is running
the lights are on. Not sure if it's a law though.
Probably should be though.

I do not like cars with forced lights.

Shortens lifespan of expensive bulbs.

Andy

How much have you spent on bulbs in recent years? Last one I bought was
for my '91 Regal and it was not a "forced" light. I don't see it as a
burden, but your experience may be different.