Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/

The city of Denver is bringing in thousands of dollars in fines every
year by ticketing people who stop at red lights. They’re ticketed
because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

The red light cameras at various intersections in the city will flash
and the driver will be sent a $75 citation if the vehicle goes over the
white line, even if the driver stops for the light.

CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged the
white line tickets in court lost.

http://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com.../red-light.jpg

==========

I don't know why the car on the right is circled in that picture. The
minivan on the left appears to have crossed the line.

The picture doesn't look clear or detailed enough to see the licence
plate (?).

On 2011-11-04, Home Guy wrote:
Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

It's legally defined as having entered the intersection and is almost
universally illegal. It's the same as stopping halfway through the
intersection, which no one would dare question as being a fineable
offense. But, the line must be drawn somewhere and it IS, in plain
sight, with bright white or yellow paint. If yer too stupid to stop
short of the line, then yer too stupid to be driving.

OTOH, that some alarmist jerk journalist decides to make an issue of
it only shows how far the news media will go to avoid having to report
real news content. If you can't find --or are too spineless to
report-- any real news, create some bogus news. I wish the newspaper
industry would hurry up and finally die off and let biased, lying,
agenda carrying, legal dept free, bloggers finally have free reign to
ferret out the dirty laundry. Even if they may be too stupid to know
when to shut up (which is probably the most honest news).

nb

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:56:31 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/

The city of Denver is bringing in thousands of dollars in fines every
year by ticketing people who stop at red lights. They’re ticketed
because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

The red light cameras at various intersections in the city will flash
and the driver will be sent a $75 citation if the vehicle goes over the
white line, even if the driver stops for the light.

CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged the
white line tickets in court lost.

http://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com.../red-light.jpg

==========

I don't know why the car on the right is circled in that picture. The
minivan on the left appears to have crossed the line.

The picture doesn't look clear or detailed enough to see the licence
plate (?).

The drivers cited have nothing to complain about. They broke the law
-- period. The lines on the road are there for a purpose.

Too bad that doesn't catch on throughout the rest of the country.

On Nov 4, 10:36*am, notbob wrote:
On 2011-11-04, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights
because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

It's legally defined as having entered the intersection and is almost
universally illegal. *It's the same as stopping halfway through the
intersection, which no one would dare question as being a fineable
offense. *But, the line must be drawn somewhere and it IS, in plain
sight, with bright white or yellow paint. *If yer too stupid to stop
short of the line, then yer too stupid to be driving.

OTOH, that some alarmist jerk journalist decides to make an issue of
it only shows how far the news media will go to avoid having to report
real news content. *If you can't find --or are too spineless to
report-- any real news, create some bogus news. *I wish the newspaper
industry would hurry up and finally die off and let biased, lying,
agenda carrying, legal dept free, bloggers finally have free reign to
ferret out the dirty laundry. *Even if they may be too stupid to know
when to shut up (which is probably the most honest news). *

nb

IAWTP. This bothers me far less than RLC's at intersections with
improperly set yellow lights. In fact, it really bothers me not at
all. If there's a white line or a crosswalk at an intersection nearly
(always?) universally across the country that defines the extents of
the intersection, and if you stop over it, you have entered the
intersection. It's not like this is some obscure section of the
vehicle code, either, you have to demonstrate that you know this to
get your license.

If they want to get their nosehairs in an uproar about something,
investigate short yellow intervals or people getting ticketed for
performing legal RTORs.

nate

On 11/4/2011 9:56 AM, Home Guy wrote:
Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/

The city of Denver is bringing in thousands of dollars in fines every
year by ticketing people who stop at red lights. They’re ticketed
because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

Good!!


The red light cameras at various intersections in the city will flash
and the driver will be sent a $75 citation if the vehicle goes over the
white line, even if the driver stops for the light.

CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged the
white line tickets in court lost.

Great!!!!

On Nov 4, 9:36*am, notbob wrote:
On 2011-11-04, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights
because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

It's legally defined as having entered the intersection and is almost
universally illegal. *It's the same as stopping halfway through the
intersection, which no one would dare question as being a fineable
offense. *But, the line must be drawn somewhere and it IS, in plain
sight, with bright white or yellow paint. *If yer too stupid to stop
short of the line, then yer too stupid to be driving.

OTOH, that some alarmist jerk journalist decides to make an issue of
it only shows how far the news media will go to avoid having to report
real news content. *If you can't find --or are too spineless to
report-- any real news, create some bogus news. *I wish the newspaper
industry would hurry up and finally die off and let biased, lying,
agenda carrying, legal dept free, bloggers finally have free reign to
ferret out the dirty laundry. *Even if they may be too stupid to know
when to shut up (which is probably the most honest news). *

nb

Chicago has just started to ticked you 100$ if you leave old city
stickers on your windshield, everybody wants revenue

On 2011-11-04, ransley wrote:

Chicago has just started to ticked you 100$ if you leave old city
stickers on your windshield, everybody wants revenue

What took 'em so long? It's illegal in CA to have ANY sticker
anywhere on the front windshield and has been for half a century, or
more.

nb

On 11/04/11 11:51 am, Gordon Shumway wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/

The city of Denver is bringing in thousands of dollars in fines every
year by ticketing people who stop at red lights. They’re ticketed
because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

The red light cameras at various intersections in the city will flash
and the driver will be sent a $75 citation if the vehicle goes over the
white line, even if the driver stops for the light.

CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged the
white line tickets in court lost.

http://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com.../red-light.jpg

==========

I don't know why the car on the right is circled in that picture. The
minivan on the left appears to have crossed the line.

The picture doesn't look clear or detailed enough to see the licence
plate (?).

The drivers cited have nothing to complain about. They broke the law
-- period. The lines on the road are there for a purpose.

Too bad that doesn't catch on throughout the rest of the country.

If the white lines still exist where you live, you're lucky. Where I
live they last about six months.

Perce

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2011-11-04, Home Guy wrote:
Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

It's legally defined as having entered the intersection and is almost
universally illegal. It's the same as stopping halfway through the
intersection, which no one would dare question as being a fineable
offense. But, the line must be drawn somewhere and it IS, in plain
sight, with bright white or yellow paint. If yer too stupid to stop
short of the line, then yer too stupid to be driving.
nb

It is universal across the states. D.O.T. came about because States had
different ideas on how high to have stop signs, speed, and everything else.

BTW, stop _lines_ are 24" wide. They may not look that wide, but they are.

Years ago, stop lights used to be b/4 entering the intersection. You will
now find in the intersection, and across the intersection. If stop lines
were avoided, one would be able to cross through the intersection, without
technically running a light.

On 11/4/2011 10:22 AM, Curt wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 2011-11-04, Home wrote:
Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

It's legally defined as having entered the intersection and is almost
universally illegal. It's the same as stopping halfway through the
intersection, which no one would dare question as being a fineable
offense. But, the line must be drawn somewhere and it IS, in plain
sight, with bright white or yellow paint. If yer too stupid to stop
short of the line, then yer too stupid to be driving.
nb

It is universal across the states. D.O.T. came about because States had
different ideas on how high to have stop signs, speed, and everything else.

BTW, stop _lines_ are 24" wide. They may not look that wide, but they are.

Years ago, stop lights used to be b/4 entering the intersection. You will
now find in the intersection, and across the intersection. If stop lines
were avoided, one would be able to cross through the intersection, without
technically running a light.

different in different locations. in AZ, they are red and only about 3"
wide. they are at the curb line, not the crosswalk line.

On Nov 4, 1:52*pm, chaniarts wrote:
On 11/4/2011 10:22 AM, Curt wrote:





*wrote in message
...
On 2011-11-04, Home *wrote:
Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

It's legally defined as having entered the intersection and is almost
universally illegal. *It's the same as stopping halfway through the
intersection, which no one would dare question as being a fineable
offense. *But, the line must be drawn somewhere and it IS, in plain
sight, with bright white or yellow paint. *If yer too stupid to stop
short of the line, then yer too stupid to be driving.
* *nb

It is universal across the states. D.O.T. came about because States had
different ideas on how high to have stop signs, speed, and everything else.

BTW, stop _lines_ are 24" wide. They may not look that wide, but they are.

Years ago, stop lights used to be b/4 entering the intersection. You will
now find in the intersection, and across the intersection. If stop lines
were avoided, one would be able to cross through the intersection, without
technically running a light.

different in different locations. in AZ, they are red and only about 3"
wide. they are at the curb line, not the crosswalk line.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

the feds want mandatory GPS imbeded on all new vehicles.

the vehicle would monitor the driver and report in by cell phone all
infractions. things like wreckless driving speeding etc. vehicle would
look for signs of being driven by a DUI and call for police assistance

tampering with the system would shut down the vehicle completely.

police could send out a slow down signal to all vehicles in area of a
police chase.

On 4 Nov 2011 16:58:07 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2011-11-04, ransley wrote:

Chicago has just started to ticked you 100$ if you leave old city
stickers on your windshield, everybody wants revenue

What took 'em so long? It's illegal in CA to have ANY sticker
anywhere on the front windshield and has been for half a century, or
more.

What do they do with out-of-staters who's state *requires* such stickers?

Gordon Shumway wrote:
Home Guy wrote:

The city of Denver is bringing in thousands of dollars in fines every
year by ticketing people who stop at red lights. They're ticketed
because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the
vehicle should stop.

The drivers cited have nothing to complain about. They broke the law
-- period. The lines on the road are there for a purpose.

Too bad that doesn't catch on throughout the rest of the country.

They also need to ticket people who do that at stop signs, too.

Driving isn't a joke, and it isn't a game. Follow the rules or get off the
road.

Jon

On 2011-11-04, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

What do they do with out-of-staters who's state *requires* such stickers?

Shoot 'em.

nb

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:56:31 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/



CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged the
white line tickets in court lost.


It is about money, not justice.

On 4 Nov 2011 14:36:16 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2011-11-04, Home Guy wrote:
Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

It's legally defined as having entered the intersection and is almost
universally illegal. It's the same as stopping halfway through the
intersection, which no one would dare question as being a fineable
offense. But, the line must be drawn somewhere and it IS, in plain
sight, with bright white or yellow paint. If yer too stupid to stop
short of the line, then yer too stupid to be driving.


You've never crossed the line? If the yellow was a bit short, the guy
had a tailgater he was trying to avoid, a distraction by another car,
are all reasons you may slip a bit over the line. I guess it is
better to just keep going as long as you'll be paying anyway. screw
safety, get your money's worth.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:56:31 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/



CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged
the white line tickets in court lost.


It is about money, not justice.

It's about dangerous and assh#$% drivers.

On 2011-11-04, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

You've never crossed the line?

(sigh) Yeah Ed, I have.

I also occasionally exceed the speed limit, even with the cruise
control engaged, and I sometimes park further than 18" from the curb
and have even been known to let my parking meter expire (gasp!). But,
it's damn rare cuz I treat driving as a full-time job requiring my
full focus, not a sideline activity requiring only occasional
attention, like so many other drivers. And, if it should occur, I got
no bitch if I get nailed, do I?

A tailgater or short yellow lights are bogus excuses. If yer paying
attention and know yer business, you slow down even further back from
the stop line or pull over to let the jerk pass you. You should also
know where the short yellows are or at least assume that one might
occur. Anticipating poor drivers and bad conditions is part of being
a good driver.

nb

Hey, quit that! I was just about to write that.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2011-11-04, zzzzzzzzzz
wrote:

What do they do with out-of-staters who's state *requires*
such stickers?

Shoot 'em.

nb

notbob wrote:
On 2011-11-04, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

You've never crossed the line?

(sigh) Yeah Ed, I have.

I also occasionally exceed the speed limit, even with the cruise
control engaged, and I sometimes park further than 18" from the curb
and have even been known to let my parking meter expire (gasp!). But,
it's damn rare cuz I treat driving as a full-time job requiring my
full focus, not a sideline activity requiring only occasional
attention, like so many other drivers. And, if it should occur, I got
no bitch if I get nailed, do I?

A tailgater or short yellow lights are bogus excuses. If yer paying
attention and know yer business, you slow down even further back from
the stop line or pull over to let the jerk pass you. You should also
know where the short yellows are or at least assume that one might
occur. Anticipating poor drivers and bad conditions is part of being
a good driver.


These days, most pedestrian lights here have a countdown, and yellow happens
immediately after the count on most of them. You have plenty of warning of
exactly when you will have to stop, and therefore, any excuse is only an excuse.
I really like this change. It allows me to plan my motion, and probably save
gas.

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 15:00:05 -0700, "Bob F" wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:56:31 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/



CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged
the white line tickets in court lost.


It is about money, not justice.

It's about dangerous and assh#$% drivers.

You're both close. It's about dangerous and assh#$% politicians.

On 11/4/2011 6:41 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2011-11-04, Ed wrote:

You've never crossed the line?

(sigh) Yeah Ed, I have.

I also occasionally exceed the speed limit, even with the cruise
control engaged, and I sometimes park further than 18" from the curb

Holy crap. When I took my drivers test in PA we had to parallel park
within 6" of the curb. It was later changed to 12". Over 18" from the
curb? I just checked PA and it's still 12" but sure enough it is up to
18" here in TN. I'd be embarrassed to leave a vehicle sticking out more
than about 10".

On 2011-11-04, Tony Miklos wrote:

18" here in TN. I'd be embarrassed to leave a vehicle sticking out more
than about 10".

A car is a piece of cake. Try parallel parking a Toyota
mini-motorhome, sometime.

nb

bob haller wrote:


the feds want mandatory GPS imbeded on all new vehicles.

the vehicle would monitor the driver and report in by cell phone all
infractions. things like wreckless driving speeding etc. vehicle would
look for signs of being driven by a DUI and call for police assistance

tampering with the system would shut down the vehicle completely.

police could send out a slow down signal to all vehicles in area of a
police chase.

Do you have a citation for this? There are some court cases kicking around
saying that police may put GPS on a car without a warrant, but that doesn't
sound like what you are talking about.
-- Doug

ransley wrote:

Chicago has just started to ticked you 100$ if you leave old city
stickers on your windshield, everybody wants revenue

I suspect what they are going after the people who drive with expired stickers
in the hopes that noone with notice they aren't current.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 15:00:05 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:56:31 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/



CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged
the white line tickets in court lost.


It is about money, not justice.

It's about dangerous and assh#$% drivers.

You're both close. It's about dangerous and assh#$% politicians.

Ahhh. Another America hater.

You elected them.

If someone can't park a car within the white lines they obviously must be dumber than a box of rocks.

These idiots should have their license suspended until they take some drivers training classes and pass a drivers test.

I mean really, is parking a car that ****ing hard? Sheeesh!



"Bob F" wrote in message ...

It's about dangerous and assh#$% drivers.

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 19:32:18 -0400, Tony Miklos
wrote:



Holy crap. When I took my drivers test in PA we had to parallel park
within 6" of the curb. It was later changed to 12". Over 18" from the
curb? I just checked PA and it's still 12" but sure enough it is up to
18" here in TN. I'd be embarrassed to leave a vehicle sticking out more
than about 10".

It is a skill that takes practice. When I lived in Philly, I could
parallel park in a spot an inch longer than my car. Now, I can go
months and not have to park at a curb. I do OK, but not as good as I
used to. It was a matter of survival if you wanted to park on the
streets.

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 15:00:05 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:56:31 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/



CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged
the white line tickets in court lost.


It is about money, not justice.

It's about dangerous and assh#$% drivers.


I'll still put my money on money. Going 6" over the line is not very
dangerous, but not paying $75 hurts the system.

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 18:18:37 -0700, "Bob F" wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 15:00:05 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:56:31 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/



CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged
the white line tickets in court lost.


It is about money, not justice.

It's about dangerous and assh#$% drivers.

You're both close. It's about dangerous and assh#$% politicians.

Ahhh. Another America hater.

You elected them.

Would you like to take your third swing? The breeze is refreshing.

On 11/04/2011 10:04 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 15:00:05 -0700, "Bob
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:56:31 -0400, Home wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/



CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged
the white line tickets in court lost.


It is about money, not justice.

It's about dangerous and assh#$% drivers.


I'll still put my money on money. Going 6" over the line is not very
dangerous, but not paying $75 hurts the system.

It's not very dangerous, but there has to be a definition of where to
stop; to borrow a phrase, you have to draw a line somewhere.

The state of competence among American drivers, at least around here is
shockingly bad - most people seem to feel the way you do about slightly
crossing the white line about other "minor" infractions like not
signaling, not using mirrors, forcing their way into another lane when
it's occupied by other traffic, turning into the wrong lane, etc. etc.
etc... unfortunately the only law that seems to be enforced is speeding.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 11/4/2011 8:09 PM, Douglas Johnson wrote:
bob wrote:


the feds want mandatory GPS imbeded on all new vehicles.

the vehicle would monitor the driver and report in by cell phone all
infractions. things like wreckless driving speeding etc. vehicle would
look for signs of being driven by a DUI and call for police assistance

tampering with the system would shut down the vehicle completely.

police could send out a slow down signal to all vehicles in area of a
police chase.

Do you have a citation for this? There are some court cases kicking around
saying that police may put GPS on a car without a warrant, but that doesn't
sound like what you are talking about.
-- Doug

Old news combined with usual internet urban legend and fear mongering.
Likely based in the already well underway effort to add data recorders
to all new cars, and use the data from them for accident analysis. Some
people don't like that, so there were discussions about if a warrant
would be required to get the data. For cars with onstar or similar
systems, the car already phones for help when certain things happen. I
don't think there is enough headroom in cell system for all cars to
report position constantly, even on a burst message basis. And a lot of
country isn't covered by cell towers.

Sure, the technology to do all the various things already exists. LoJack
can track and remote kill a car, OnStar can report location, etc, etc.
It would not be a great leap to link all this stuff and tie it to the
onboard computer and data recorder. And once all the old cars were off
the road, it could eliminate most police chases- cop on scene could
remotely read car's ID, transmit it uphill, and Big Brother in the cloud
could just issue a command for the car to choke off fuel supply.
Science fiction described such systems 50 years ago (although those cars
could usually fly), but it hasn't happened yet. I hope it never does,
for cost, additional failure mode, and constitutional reasons.

--
aem sends...

In article ,
aemeijers wrote:



Old news combined with usual internet urban legend and fear mongering.
Likely based in the already well underway effort to add data recorders
to all new cars, and use the data from them for accident analysis. Some
people don't like that, so there were discussions about if a warrant
would be required to get the data. For cars with onstar or similar
systems, the car already phones for help when certain things happen. I
don't think there is enough headroom in cell system for all cars to
report position constantly, even on a burst message basis. And a lot of
country isn't covered by cell towers.
More likely would be the stuff that counts your mileage and then phones
home because gas taxes based on gallons isn't paying enough.



--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

On Nov 4, 10:36*am, notbob wrote:
On 2011-11-04, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights
because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

It's legally defined as having entered the intersection and is almost
universally illegal. *It's the same as stopping halfway through the
intersection, which no one would dare question as being a fineable
offense. *But, the line must be drawn somewhere and it IS, in plain
sight, with bright white or yellow paint. *If yer too stupid to stop
short of the line, then yer too stupid to be driving.

OTOH, that some alarmist jerk journalist decides to make an issue of
it only shows how far the news media will go to avoid having to report
real news content. *If you can't find --or are too spineless to
report-- any real news, create some bogus news. *I wish the newspaper
industry would hurry up and finally die off and let biased, lying,
agenda carrying, legal dept free, bloggers finally have free reign to
ferret out the dirty laundry. *Even if they may be too stupid to know
when to shut up (which is probably the most honest news). *

nb

I disagree. This is another case of big govt screwing the citizens.
Every prosecutor has discretion in determining charges to bring.
For the police to be ticketing drivers because their front wheel just
touches the white stop line is an abuse of power.

Also, I fail to see the slam against the media. It is a worthwhile
and
important story. Should not the people be aware of it, so that it
will
not happen to them? Isn't the purported claim of the police that this
is being done for safety? If that's true, then it's important to get
the
message out, is it not?

As to the safety issue, it's been shown in city after city that these
cameras have done nothing for safety. Many cities, like LA, are
taking them out. So, there the citizens got screwed twice. Once
by paying to put them in, then again by paying to take them out.
And then those unfortunate enough to get a ticket got screwed
a third time, because the cameras were ruled illegal and unenforceable
in court, though most who got the tickets paid them.

On Nov 4, 6:00*pm, "Bob F" wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:56:31 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...ines-on-driver....

CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged
the white line tickets in court lost.

It is about money, not justice.

It's about dangerous and assh#$% drivers.


There have been numerous studies done where they have installed
cameras at intersections and the conclusion in every one I've seen
is that they had no effect on safety at all. LA is a good example.
After spending taxpayer $$$ to install them, they are taking them out,
part of the reason being they say there was no impact on safety.


L.A. traffic cameras may get the red light
Citing costs and safety issues, the Police Commission votes to shut
the cameras down. Unless the City Council intervenes, their use at 32
intersections could end within weeks.
June 08, 2011|By Joel Rubin, Los Angeles TimesThe Los Angeles Police
Commission has voted to kill the city's controversial red-light camera
program, rejecting claims that the system makes streets safer while
costing the city nothing.

Tuesday's vote means that the red-light cameras installed at 32
intersections throughout the city could stop operating within a few
weeks unless the City Council takes the unusual step of stripping the
Police Commission of its authority over the issue.

On 4 Nov 2011 14:36:16 GMT, notbob wrote Re
Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights:

OTOH, that some alarmist jerk journalist decides to make an issue of
it only shows how far the news media will go to avoid having to report
real news content. If you can't find --or are too spineless to
report-- any real news, create some bogus news. I wish the newspaper
industry would hurry up and finally die off and let biased, lying,
agenda carrying, legal dept free, bloggers finally have free reign to
ferret out the dirty laundry. Even if they may be too stupid to know
when to shut up (which is probably the most honest news).

Well said.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

On Nov 5, 4:57*am, Nate Nagel wrote:

The state of competence among American drivers, at least around here is
shockingly bad - most people seem to feel the way you do about slightly
crossing the white line about other "minor" infractions like not
signaling, not using mirrors, forcing their way into another lane when
it's occupied by other traffic, turning into the wrong lane, etc. etc.
etc... *unfortunately the only law that seems to be enforced is speeding.

Don't you need a license to sling that much cognitive dissonance?

You have tickets for failure to obey a highway sign, and a cracked
windshield.

And, of course, you have cited these same motorists to be "perfectly
safe" at 80 mph, ad nauseum.

And, you're in a RLC thread.

You appear to be in the final stages of entirely disconnecting from
reality.
-----

- gpsman

On 11/5/2011 8:27 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
More likely would be the stuff that counts your mileage and then phones
home because gas taxes based on gallons isn't paying enough.

I was just thinking of this lately. Do electric cars get away without
paying highway taxes?

On Nov 5, 10:54*am, Tony Miklos wrote:
On 11/5/2011 8:27 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:

More likely would be the stuff that counts your mileage and then phones
home because gas taxes based on gallons isn't paying enough.

I was just thinking of this lately. *Do electric cars get away without
paying highway taxes?

They obviously don't pay taxes on the motor fuels. They
would be subject to state taxes/fees like registration fee,
that may go towards roads or tolls, etc. However those would be small
in most cases compared to the fuel tax.

On 11/05/2011 09:37 AM, gpsman wrote:
On Nov 5, 4:57 am, Nate wrote:

The state of competence among American drivers, at least around here is
shockingly bad - most people seem to feel the way you do about slightly
crossing the white line about other "minor" infractions like not
signaling, not using mirrors, forcing their way into another lane when
it's occupied by other traffic, turning into the wrong lane, etc. etc.
etc... unfortunately the only law that seems to be enforced is speeding.

Don't you need a license to sling that much cognitive dissonance?

You have tickets for failure to obey a highway sign,

that would be "speeding"

and a cracked
windshield.

In my current state of residence, that windshield would be perfectly
legal, and in any state it was safe. I was also cited literally days
after the crack occurred.

And, of course, you have cited these same motorists to be "perfectly
safe" at 80 mph, ad nauseum.

No, I stated that 80 MPH on an interstate highway was perfectly safe for
a competent driver, which it is.

And, you're in a RLC thread.

You appear to be in the final stages of entirely disconnecting from
reality.

You shouldn't talk about things that you know nothing about, like "reality."

I'll oppose a law when it is unfair. I will support a law when it makes
sense.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel