Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/

The city of Denver is bringing in thousands of dollars in fines every
year by ticketing people who stop at red lights. They’re ticketed
because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

The red light cameras at various intersections in the city will flash
and the driver will be sent a $75 citation if the vehicle goes over the
white line, even if the driver stops for the light.

CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged the
white line tickets in court lost.

http://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com.../red-light.jpg

==========

I don't know why the car on the right is circled in that picture. The
minivan on the left appears to have crossed the line.

The picture doesn't look clear or detailed enough to see the licence
plate (?).

On 2011-11-04, Home Guy wrote:
Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

It's legally defined as having entered the intersection and is almost
universally illegal. It's the same as stopping halfway through the
intersection, which no one would dare question as being a fineable
offense. But, the line must be drawn somewhere and it IS, in plain
sight, with bright white or yellow paint. If yer too stupid to stop
short of the line, then yer too stupid to be driving.

OTOH, that some alarmist jerk journalist decides to make an issue of
it only shows how far the news media will go to avoid having to report
real news content. If you can't find --or are too spineless to
report-- any real news, create some bogus news. I wish the newspaper
industry would hurry up and finally die off and let biased, lying,
agenda carrying, legal dept free, bloggers finally have free reign to
ferret out the dirty laundry. Even if they may be too stupid to know
when to shut up (which is probably the most honest news).

nb

On Nov 4, 9:36*am, notbob wrote:
On 2011-11-04, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights
because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

It's legally defined as having entered the intersection and is almost
universally illegal. *It's the same as stopping halfway through the
intersection, which no one would dare question as being a fineable
offense. *But, the line must be drawn somewhere and it IS, in plain
sight, with bright white or yellow paint. *If yer too stupid to stop
short of the line, then yer too stupid to be driving.

OTOH, that some alarmist jerk journalist decides to make an issue of
it only shows how far the news media will go to avoid having to report
real news content. *If you can't find --or are too spineless to
report-- any real news, create some bogus news. *I wish the newspaper
industry would hurry up and finally die off and let biased, lying,
agenda carrying, legal dept free, bloggers finally have free reign to
ferret out the dirty laundry. *Even if they may be too stupid to know
when to shut up (which is probably the most honest news). *

nb

Chicago has just started to ticked you 100$ if you leave old city
stickers on your windshield, everybody wants revenue

On 2011-11-04, ransley wrote:

Chicago has just started to ticked you 100$ if you leave old city
stickers on your windshield, everybody wants revenue

What took 'em so long? It's illegal in CA to have ANY sticker
anywhere on the front windshield and has been for half a century, or
more.

nb

On 4 Nov 2011 16:58:07 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2011-11-04, ransley wrote:

Chicago has just started to ticked you 100$ if you leave old city
stickers on your windshield, everybody wants revenue

What took 'em so long? It's illegal in CA to have ANY sticker
anywhere on the front windshield and has been for half a century, or
more.

What do they do with out-of-staters who's state *requires* such stickers?

On 2011-11-04, zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

What do they do with out-of-staters who's state *requires* such stickers?

Shoot 'em.

nb

In article ,
notbob wrote:

What took 'em so long? It's illegal in CA to have ANY sticker
anywhere on the front windshield and has been for half a century, or
more.


Thanks for playing... In section 26708 the CVC specifically allows:

" (3) Signs, stickers, or other materials that are displayed in a
seven-inch square in the lower corner of the windshield farthest
removed from the driver, signs, stickers, or other materials that are
displayed in a seven-inch square in the lower corner of the rear
window farthest removed from the driver, or signs, stickers, or other
materials that are displayed in a five-inch square in the lower
corner of the windshield nearest the driver."

ransley wrote:

Chicago has just started to ticked you 100$ if you leave old city
stickers on your windshield, everybody wants revenue

I suspect what they are going after the people who drive with expired stickers
in the hopes that noone with notice they aren't current.

"Robert Neville" wrote in message
...
ransley wrote:

Chicago has just started to ticked you 100$ if you leave old city
stickers on your windshield, everybody wants revenue

I suspect what they are going after the people who drive with expired
stickers
in the hopes that noone with notice they aren't current.

Don't believe that for a second. I lived in Texas and Louisiana, and I've
seen many a trooper do a U turn from 70 mph on the Interstate to come back
and get an expired sticker. They are color coded, and easily spotted.
DAMHIKT

Steve

On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 09:51:07 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:




Don't believe that for a second. I lived in Texas and Louisiana, and I've
seen many a trooper do a U turn from 70 mph on the Interstate to come back
and get an expired sticker. They are color coded, and easily spotted.
DAMHIKT

Steve


I've seen it to when I lived in PA. I've also seen the sticker
replaced with poster board, trading stamps, and most anything that was
the right color for the period.

Here in CT, we no longer have stickers or tags on the license plate.
Too many plates (including one of mine) were being stolen for the
little tags.

Steve B wrote:
"Robert Neville" wrote in message
...
ransley wrote:

Chicago has just started to ticked you 100$ if you leave old city
stickers on your windshield, everybody wants revenue

I suspect what they are going after the people who drive with expired
stickers
in the hopes that noone with notice they aren't current.

Don't believe that for a second. I lived in Texas and Louisiana, and
I've seen many a trooper do a U turn from 70 mph on the Interstate to
come back and get an expired sticker. They are color coded, and
easily spotted. DAMHIKT


A friend got stopped for an expired out-of-state tab. The cop spotted it at
highway speed. They are up on the colors locally and at least nearby states, it
seems.

On Nov 4, 10:36*am, notbob wrote:
On 2011-11-04, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights
because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

It's legally defined as having entered the intersection and is almost
universally illegal. *It's the same as stopping halfway through the
intersection, which no one would dare question as being a fineable
offense. *But, the line must be drawn somewhere and it IS, in plain
sight, with bright white or yellow paint. *If yer too stupid to stop
short of the line, then yer too stupid to be driving.

OTOH, that some alarmist jerk journalist decides to make an issue of
it only shows how far the news media will go to avoid having to report
real news content. *If you can't find --or are too spineless to
report-- any real news, create some bogus news. *I wish the newspaper
industry would hurry up and finally die off and let biased, lying,
agenda carrying, legal dept free, bloggers finally have free reign to
ferret out the dirty laundry. *Even if they may be too stupid to know
when to shut up (which is probably the most honest news). *

nb

IAWTP. This bothers me far less than RLC's at intersections with
improperly set yellow lights. In fact, it really bothers me not at
all. If there's a white line or a crosswalk at an intersection nearly
(always?) universally across the country that defines the extents of
the intersection, and if you stop over it, you have entered the
intersection. It's not like this is some obscure section of the
vehicle code, either, you have to demonstrate that you know this to
get your license.

If they want to get their nosehairs in an uproar about something,
investigate short yellow intervals or people getting ticketed for
performing legal RTORs.

nate

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2011-11-04, Home Guy wrote:
Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

It's legally defined as having entered the intersection and is almost
universally illegal. It's the same as stopping halfway through the
intersection, which no one would dare question as being a fineable
offense. But, the line must be drawn somewhere and it IS, in plain
sight, with bright white or yellow paint. If yer too stupid to stop
short of the line, then yer too stupid to be driving.
nb

It is universal across the states. D.O.T. came about because States had
different ideas on how high to have stop signs, speed, and everything else.

BTW, stop _lines_ are 24" wide. They may not look that wide, but they are.

Years ago, stop lights used to be b/4 entering the intersection. You will
now find in the intersection, and across the intersection. If stop lines
were avoided, one would be able to cross through the intersection, without
technically running a light.

On 11/4/2011 10:22 AM, Curt wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 2011-11-04, Home wrote:
Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

It's legally defined as having entered the intersection and is almost
universally illegal. It's the same as stopping halfway through the
intersection, which no one would dare question as being a fineable
offense. But, the line must be drawn somewhere and it IS, in plain
sight, with bright white or yellow paint. If yer too stupid to stop
short of the line, then yer too stupid to be driving.
nb

It is universal across the states. D.O.T. came about because States had
different ideas on how high to have stop signs, speed, and everything else.

BTW, stop _lines_ are 24" wide. They may not look that wide, but they are.

Years ago, stop lights used to be b/4 entering the intersection. You will
now find in the intersection, and across the intersection. If stop lines
were avoided, one would be able to cross through the intersection, without
technically running a light.

different in different locations. in AZ, they are red and only about 3"
wide. they are at the curb line, not the crosswalk line.

On Nov 4, 1:52*pm, chaniarts wrote:
On 11/4/2011 10:22 AM, Curt wrote:





*wrote in message
...
On 2011-11-04, Home *wrote:
Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

It's legally defined as having entered the intersection and is almost
universally illegal. *It's the same as stopping halfway through the
intersection, which no one would dare question as being a fineable
offense. *But, the line must be drawn somewhere and it IS, in plain
sight, with bright white or yellow paint. *If yer too stupid to stop
short of the line, then yer too stupid to be driving.
* *nb

It is universal across the states. D.O.T. came about because States had
different ideas on how high to have stop signs, speed, and everything else.

BTW, stop _lines_ are 24" wide. They may not look that wide, but they are.

Years ago, stop lights used to be b/4 entering the intersection. You will
now find in the intersection, and across the intersection. If stop lines
were avoided, one would be able to cross through the intersection, without
technically running a light.

different in different locations. in AZ, they are red and only about 3"
wide. they are at the curb line, not the crosswalk line.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

the feds want mandatory GPS imbeded on all new vehicles.

the vehicle would monitor the driver and report in by cell phone all
infractions. things like wreckless driving speeding etc. vehicle would
look for signs of being driven by a DUI and call for police assistance

tampering with the system would shut down the vehicle completely.

police could send out a slow down signal to all vehicles in area of a
police chase.

bob haller wrote:


the feds want mandatory GPS imbeded on all new vehicles.

the vehicle would monitor the driver and report in by cell phone all
infractions. things like wreckless driving speeding etc. vehicle would
look for signs of being driven by a DUI and call for police assistance

tampering with the system would shut down the vehicle completely.

police could send out a slow down signal to all vehicles in area of a
police chase.

Do you have a citation for this? There are some court cases kicking around
saying that police may put GPS on a car without a warrant, but that doesn't
sound like what you are talking about.
-- Doug

On 4 Nov 2011 14:36:16 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2011-11-04, Home Guy wrote:
Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

It's legally defined as having entered the intersection and is almost
universally illegal. It's the same as stopping halfway through the
intersection, which no one would dare question as being a fineable
offense. But, the line must be drawn somewhere and it IS, in plain
sight, with bright white or yellow paint. If yer too stupid to stop
short of the line, then yer too stupid to be driving.


You've never crossed the line? If the yellow was a bit short, the guy
had a tailgater he was trying to avoid, a distraction by another car,
are all reasons you may slip a bit over the line. I guess it is
better to just keep going as long as you'll be paying anyway. screw
safety, get your money's worth.

On 2011-11-04, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

You've never crossed the line?

(sigh) Yeah Ed, I have.

I also occasionally exceed the speed limit, even with the cruise
control engaged, and I sometimes park further than 18" from the curb
and have even been known to let my parking meter expire (gasp!). But,
it's damn rare cuz I treat driving as a full-time job requiring my
full focus, not a sideline activity requiring only occasional
attention, like so many other drivers. And, if it should occur, I got
no bitch if I get nailed, do I?

A tailgater or short yellow lights are bogus excuses. If yer paying
attention and know yer business, you slow down even further back from
the stop line or pull over to let the jerk pass you. You should also
know where the short yellows are or at least assume that one might
occur. Anticipating poor drivers and bad conditions is part of being
a good driver.

nb

notbob wrote:
On 2011-11-04, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

You've never crossed the line?

(sigh) Yeah Ed, I have.

I also occasionally exceed the speed limit, even with the cruise
control engaged, and I sometimes park further than 18" from the curb
and have even been known to let my parking meter expire (gasp!). But,
it's damn rare cuz I treat driving as a full-time job requiring my
full focus, not a sideline activity requiring only occasional
attention, like so many other drivers. And, if it should occur, I got
no bitch if I get nailed, do I?

A tailgater or short yellow lights are bogus excuses. If yer paying
attention and know yer business, you slow down even further back from
the stop line or pull over to let the jerk pass you. You should also
know where the short yellows are or at least assume that one might
occur. Anticipating poor drivers and bad conditions is part of being
a good driver.


These days, most pedestrian lights here have a countdown, and yellow happens
immediately after the count on most of them. You have plenty of warning of
exactly when you will have to stop, and therefore, any excuse is only an excuse.
I really like this change. It allows me to plan my motion, and probably save
gas.

On 11/4/2011 6:41 PM, notbob wrote:
On 2011-11-04, Ed wrote:

You've never crossed the line?

(sigh) Yeah Ed, I have.

I also occasionally exceed the speed limit, even with the cruise
control engaged, and I sometimes park further than 18" from the curb

Holy crap. When I took my drivers test in PA we had to parallel park
within 6" of the curb. It was later changed to 12". Over 18" from the
curb? I just checked PA and it's still 12" but sure enough it is up to
18" here in TN. I'd be embarrassed to leave a vehicle sticking out more
than about 10".

On 2011-11-04, Tony Miklos wrote:

18" here in TN. I'd be embarrassed to leave a vehicle sticking out more
than about 10".

A car is a piece of cake. Try parallel parking a Toyota
mini-motorhome, sometime.

nb

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 19:32:18 -0400, Tony Miklos
wrote:



Holy crap. When I took my drivers test in PA we had to parallel park
within 6" of the curb. It was later changed to 12". Over 18" from the
curb? I just checked PA and it's still 12" but sure enough it is up to
18" here in TN. I'd be embarrassed to leave a vehicle sticking out more
than about 10".

It is a skill that takes practice. When I lived in Philly, I could
parallel park in a spot an inch longer than my car. Now, I can go
months and not have to park at a curb. I do OK, but not as good as I
used to. It was a matter of survival if you wanted to park on the
streets.

On Nov 4, 10:36*am, notbob wrote:
On 2011-11-04, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights
because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

It's legally defined as having entered the intersection and is almost
universally illegal. *It's the same as stopping halfway through the
intersection, which no one would dare question as being a fineable
offense. *But, the line must be drawn somewhere and it IS, in plain
sight, with bright white or yellow paint. *If yer too stupid to stop
short of the line, then yer too stupid to be driving.

OTOH, that some alarmist jerk journalist decides to make an issue of
it only shows how far the news media will go to avoid having to report
real news content. *If you can't find --or are too spineless to
report-- any real news, create some bogus news. *I wish the newspaper
industry would hurry up and finally die off and let biased, lying,
agenda carrying, legal dept free, bloggers finally have free reign to
ferret out the dirty laundry. *Even if they may be too stupid to know
when to shut up (which is probably the most honest news). *

nb

I disagree. This is another case of big govt screwing the citizens.
Every prosecutor has discretion in determining charges to bring.
For the police to be ticketing drivers because their front wheel just
touches the white stop line is an abuse of power.

Also, I fail to see the slam against the media. It is a worthwhile
and
important story. Should not the people be aware of it, so that it
will
not happen to them? Isn't the purported claim of the police that this
is being done for safety? If that's true, then it's important to get
the
message out, is it not?

As to the safety issue, it's been shown in city after city that these
cameras have done nothing for safety. Many cities, like LA, are
taking them out. So, there the citizens got screwed twice. Once
by paying to put them in, then again by paying to take them out.
And then those unfortunate enough to get a ticket got screwed
a third time, because the cameras were ruled illegal and unenforceable
in court, though most who got the tickets paid them.

On 4 Nov 2011 14:36:16 GMT, notbob wrote Re
Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights:

OTOH, that some alarmist jerk journalist decides to make an issue of
it only shows how far the news media will go to avoid having to report
real news content. If you can't find --or are too spineless to
report-- any real news, create some bogus news. I wish the newspaper
industry would hurry up and finally die off and let biased, lying,
agenda carrying, legal dept free, bloggers finally have free reign to
ferret out the dirty laundry. Even if they may be too stupid to know
when to shut up (which is probably the most honest news).

Well said.
--
Work is the curse of the drinking class.

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:56:31 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/

The city of Denver is bringing in thousands of dollars in fines every
year by ticketing people who stop at red lights. They’re ticketed
because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

The red light cameras at various intersections in the city will flash
and the driver will be sent a $75 citation if the vehicle goes over the
white line, even if the driver stops for the light.

CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged the
white line tickets in court lost.

http://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com.../red-light.jpg

==========

I don't know why the car on the right is circled in that picture. The
minivan on the left appears to have crossed the line.

The picture doesn't look clear or detailed enough to see the licence
plate (?).

The drivers cited have nothing to complain about. They broke the law
-- period. The lines on the road are there for a purpose.

Too bad that doesn't catch on throughout the rest of the country.

On 11/04/11 11:51 am, Gordon Shumway wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/

The city of Denver is bringing in thousands of dollars in fines every
year by ticketing people who stop at red lights. They’re ticketed
because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

The red light cameras at various intersections in the city will flash
and the driver will be sent a $75 citation if the vehicle goes over the
white line, even if the driver stops for the light.

CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged the
white line tickets in court lost.

http://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com.../red-light.jpg

==========

I don't know why the car on the right is circled in that picture. The
minivan on the left appears to have crossed the line.

The picture doesn't look clear or detailed enough to see the licence
plate (?).

The drivers cited have nothing to complain about. They broke the law
-- period. The lines on the road are there for a purpose.

Too bad that doesn't catch on throughout the rest of the country.

If the white lines still exist where you live, you're lucky. Where I
live they last about six months.

Perce

Gordon Shumway wrote:
Home Guy wrote:

The city of Denver is bringing in thousands of dollars in fines every
year by ticketing people who stop at red lights. They're ticketed
because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the
vehicle should stop.

The drivers cited have nothing to complain about. They broke the law
-- period. The lines on the road are there for a purpose.

Too bad that doesn't catch on throughout the rest of the country.

They also need to ticket people who do that at stop signs, too.

Driving isn't a joke, and it isn't a game. Follow the rules or get off the
road.

Jon

On 11/4/2011 9:56 AM, Home Guy wrote:
Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/

The city of Denver is bringing in thousands of dollars in fines every
year by ticketing people who stop at red lights. They’re ticketed
because their tire goes over the white line that marks where the vehicle
should stop.

Good!!


The red light cameras at various intersections in the city will flash
and the driver will be sent a $75 citation if the vehicle goes over the
white line, even if the driver stops for the light.

CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged the
white line tickets in court lost.

Great!!!!

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:56:31 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/



CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged the
white line tickets in court lost.


It is about money, not justice.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:56:31 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/



CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged
the white line tickets in court lost.


It is about money, not justice.

It's about dangerous and assh#$% drivers.

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 15:00:05 -0700, "Bob F" wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:56:31 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/



CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged
the white line tickets in court lost.


It is about money, not justice.

It's about dangerous and assh#$% drivers.

You're both close. It's about dangerous and assh#$% politicians.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 15:00:05 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:56:31 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/



CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged
the white line tickets in court lost.


It is about money, not justice.

It's about dangerous and assh#$% drivers.

You're both close. It's about dangerous and assh#$% politicians.

Ahhh. Another America hater.

You elected them.

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 18:18:37 -0700, "Bob F" wrote:

wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 15:00:05 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:56:31 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/



CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged
the white line tickets in court lost.


It is about money, not justice.

It's about dangerous and assh#$% drivers.

You're both close. It's about dangerous and assh#$% politicians.

Ahhh. Another America hater.

You elected them.

Would you like to take your third swing? The breeze is refreshing.

If someone can't park a car within the white lines they obviously must be dumber than a box of rocks.

These idiots should have their license suspended until they take some drivers training classes and pass a drivers test.

I mean really, is parking a car that ****ing hard? Sheeesh!



"Bob F" wrote in message ...

It's about dangerous and assh#$% drivers.

I went to driver's school a few years ago after a fender bender to reduce
the points, and other benefits.

I always had a question about entering an intersection when turning left.
Do you enter, then wait out in the intersection, with your wheels turned
left, until it is clear? Or wheels straight? You're a sitting duck for a
speeding ambulance, police pursuit, rearender who will send you into
oncoming traffic, whatever. If you stop back of the line, every car behind
you honks.

I learned that YOU MUST NOT ENTER THE INTERSECTION UNTIL YOU CAN SAFELY MAKE
YOUR TURN COMPLETELY. That would mean stopping behind the line. I have
done that since, but before that, would sit out there, always having a
feeling that I was doing something wrong, and always waiting and watching
for something bad to happen. Another reason to get behind the line.

PLUS, I just love those people who cut the corner, coming through my left
hand turn lane when they are making their LEFT hand turn. They must start
their turn way before their own white line to get that far into my lane.
Another reason for staying back behind the line.

Steve

On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 09:40:45 -0700, "Steve B" wrote:

I went to driver's school a few years ago after a fender bender to reduce
the points, and other benefits.

I always had a question about entering an intersection when turning left.
Do you enter, then wait out in the intersection, with your wheels turned
left, until it is clear? Or wheels straight? You're a sitting duck for a
speeding ambulance, police pursuit, rearender who will send you into
oncoming traffic, whatever. If you stop back of the line, every car behind
you honks.

I was taught to pull out into the intersection and keep wheels straight (so
some numbskull hitting you in the rear doesn't push you into oncoming
traffic). Once in the intersection, you owned it. *ENTERING* on a red-light
was a no-no.

I learned that YOU MUST NOT ENTER THE INTERSECTION UNTIL YOU CAN SAFELY MAKE
YOUR TURN COMPLETELY. That would mean stopping behind the line. I have
done that since, but before that, would sit out there, always having a
feeling that I was doing something wrong, and always waiting and watching
for something bad to happen. Another reason to get behind the line.

The opposite of my DE.

PLUS, I just love those people who cut the corner, coming through my left
hand turn lane when they are making their LEFT hand turn. They must start
their turn way before their own white line to get that far into my lane.
Another reason for staying back behind the line.

Worse are the people who drive in (serial) right turn lanes - and pass on the
right. Many places around here share a left-turn (suicide) lane.

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 15:00:05 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:56:31 -0400, Home Guy wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/



CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged
the white line tickets in court lost.


It is about money, not justice.

It's about dangerous and assh#$% drivers.


I'll still put my money on money. Going 6" over the line is not very
dangerous, but not paying $75 hurts the system.

On 11/04/2011 10:04 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 15:00:05 -0700, "Bob
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 09:56:31 -0400, Home wrote:

Denver Collects Fines On Drivers Who Stop At Red Lights

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/11/0...at-red-lights/



CBS4 Investigator Rick Sallinger found most everyone who challenged
the white line tickets in court lost.


It is about money, not justice.

It's about dangerous and assh#$% drivers.


I'll still put my money on money. Going 6" over the line is not very
dangerous, but not paying $75 hurts the system.

It's not very dangerous, but there has to be a definition of where to
stop; to borrow a phrase, you have to draw a line somewhere.

The state of competence among American drivers, at least around here is
shockingly bad - most people seem to feel the way you do about slightly
crossing the white line about other "minor" infractions like not
signaling, not using mirrors, forcing their way into another lane when
it's occupied by other traffic, turning into the wrong lane, etc. etc.
etc... unfortunately the only law that seems to be enforced is speeding.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Nov 5, 4:57*am, Nate Nagel wrote:

The state of competence among American drivers, at least around here is
shockingly bad - most people seem to feel the way you do about slightly
crossing the white line about other "minor" infractions like not
signaling, not using mirrors, forcing their way into another lane when
it's occupied by other traffic, turning into the wrong lane, etc. etc.
etc... *unfortunately the only law that seems to be enforced is speeding.

Don't you need a license to sling that much cognitive dissonance?

You have tickets for failure to obey a highway sign, and a cracked
windshield.

And, of course, you have cited these same motorists to be "perfectly
safe" at 80 mph, ad nauseum.

And, you're in a RLC thread.

You appear to be in the final stages of entirely disconnecting from
reality.
-----

- gpsman

It's not very dangerous, but there has to be a definition of where to
stop; to borrow a phrase, you have to draw a line somewhere.

I'd say when the front bumper goes into the crosswalk would be a starter.
But different cars have different amounts of overhang, so some cars could
actually be on the line or over it, and NOT in the painted pedestrian
crossing lines. I hate those people who stop at the second line in the
crosswalk, and then give you a dirty look when you give them a dirty look
and a one finger salute because you have to walk around their car and into
the intersection.

Steve