I've never seen so many old cranks in any other NG. What is even more
interesting is that one can discern from the posting time of responses that
most of you old mos must spend a large part of your day posting to this NG.
I guess being on "disability" give you a lot of time and posting here gives
you something to do.

It's pitiful, but entertaining.

Is anybody here under 60 years old?

On 05/15/2014 02:25 AM, Zaky Waky wrote:
I've never seen so many old cranks in any other NG. What is even more
interesting is that one can discern from the posting time of responses that
most of you old mos must spend a large part of your day posting to this NG.
I guess being on "disability" give you a lot of time and posting here gives
you something to do.

It's pitiful, but entertaining.

Is anybody here under 60 years old?


Yah, we got some nutcakes here for sure!

On 5/15/2014 1:25 AM, Waky Zaky, Expert Poop Muncher wrote:
I've never seen so many old cranks in any other NG. What is even more
interesting is that one can discern from the posting time of responses that
most of you old mos must spend a large part of your day posting to this NG.
I guess being on "disability" give you a lot of time and posting here gives
you something to do.

It's pitiful, but entertaining.

Is anybody here under 60 years old?

Whacky Zacky, what age group are you in and how many nyms do you use?
When I was a young man, I did get impatient sometimes with old folks
until I realized I would be in that situation someday. Because of that,
I was never mean to old folks and the disabled. As a matter of fact I
did what I could to help them when I saw they were having a problem
getting around and I continue to do it even though I'm disabled myself.
Up until a few years ago, I could carry their groceries for them but now
I can at least hold a door for someone who's in a wheelchair or using a
walker which is something I've had to use before. Whacky Zacky,
you're quite the pyrogenic posterior sphincter as proven by your
attitude and disrespectful behavior toward the aged and disabled. I
would tell you to consume excreta and expire but in your case, that
would be akin to cannibalism. I have my doubts that you'll survive to
reach the age of me and many of the people who post to this group due to
the unhealthy habits and addictions you share with those of your ilk who
are some of the nastiest cretins I've ever met. Whacky Zacky, I don't
think you'll make it to 60 and you'll be lucky if you reach 50. I
certainly won't be around to witness your decline into poor health and
what will probably be dementia because of the brain damaged caused by
your consumption of recreational chemicals and your inhalation of the
toxic byproducts of combustion from several plant species. It's very
satisfying to me to know that you won't reach the age of those you
disparage and treat with so much disrespect. Karma is a bitch ain't it? ^__^

TDD

On 15 May 2014 06:25:03 GMT, Zaky Waky wrote:

I've never seen so many old cranks in any other NG. What is even more
interesting is that one can discern from the posting time of responses that
most of you old mos must spend a large part of your day posting to this NG.
I guess being on "disability" give you a lot of time and posting here gives
you something to do.

It's pitiful, but entertaining.

Is anybody here under 60 years old?


You asked this a few weeks back. Are you that lame as to have to use
the same troll every month? Did you already forget this has been
asked? By the time you are 60, you will be so pathetically brain dead
you will post this every day.

"Zaky Waky" wrote in message

I've never seen so many old cranks in any other NG. What
is even more interesting is that one can discern from the
posting time of responses that most of you old mos must
spend a large part of your day posting to this NG. I
guess being on "disability" give you a lot of time and
posting here gives you something to do.

It's pitiful, but entertaining.

Is anybody here under 60 years old?

Possibly but doubtful because that is about the age when youthful idiocy
disappears.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

| I've never seen so many old cranks in any other NG.

I have. I find the crowd here to be mostly intelligent
and courteous. Many of the tech groups I've visited
have a high population of what I'd call unsocialized geeks,
who tend to be mean-spirited, close-minded, and barely
literate. I recently decided to check out philosophy groups,
but ended up dropping them because even when someone
posted a coherent, interesting post, most discussion tended
to degenerate into "atheist mania". (I never knew "atheists"
were such an irrational, steamed-up bunch. They hang around
in the philosophy groups, awaiting any opportunity for a
bilious outbourst about their inflamed belief that they don't
believe anything.

| Is anybody here under 60 years old?

I am, but just barely. I find that an interesting point.
I think the people in most newsgroups are mostly older.
The baby boomers know the Internet as a public information
and sharing medium. Younger people have grown up in
a commercial culture. They spend their youth in commercially
owned shopping malls and live their social lives hosted by
corporate service companies like Facebook. For the most
part, these are people who have no experience of citizenship
in any part of their lives. They know themselves and others
as "consumers". They go online to "consume" services from
Facebook, Foursquare, etc, in lieu of a social life.

I find the whole thing both fascinating and scary.
Newsgroups are a simple, text-based conversation medium
that can provide help in almost all areas of life, yet their
"unofficial", non-commercial nature -- the fact that the
participants pretty much make the groups what they are --
makes them virtually invisible to people who live as
consumers.

And what about you? Surely you must have something
*useful* to contribute? Are you handy? Do you have skills
that might be helpful to others? Do you need any help
with handyman issues?

On 2014-05-15, Mayayana wrote:

The baby boomers know the Internet as a public information
and sharing medium. Younger people have grown up in
a commercial culture. They spend their youth in commercially
owned shopping malls and live their social lives hosted by
corporate service companies like Facebook. For the most
part, these are people who have no experience of citizenship
in any part of their lives. They know themselves and others
as "consumers". They go online to "consume" services from
Facebook, Foursquare, etc, in lieu of a social life.

I find the whole thing both fascinating and scary.
Newsgroups are a simple, text-based conversation medium
that can provide help in almost all areas of life, yet their
"unofficial", non-commercial nature -- the fact that the
participants pretty much make the groups what they are --
makes them virtually invisible to people who live as
consumers.

Nice insightful post and well said.

nb

On 5/15/2014 9:41 AM, Mayayana wrote:

I find the whole thing both fascinating and scary.
Newsgroups are a simple, text-based conversation medium
that can provide help in almost all areas of life, yet their
"unofficial", non-commercial nature -- the fact that the
participants pretty much make the groups what they are --
makes them virtually invisible to people who live as
consumers.

It's an interesting mix of people. Add to the
mix, the web portal folks who have no clue what
Usenet is. Spammers who want to sell vinyl windows
in Detroit, and the occasional flamer.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Mayayana" wrote in message

I've never seen so many old cranks in any other NG.

I have. I find the crowd here to be mostly intelligent
and courteous. Many of the tech groups I've visited
have a high population of what I'd call unsocialized
geeks, who tend to be mean-spirited, close-minded, and
barely literate.

snipped rest

Good post and reasonably accurate, I would judge.

One point, not all atheists - or believers/acceptors - are irrational. I've
been an atheist for 65 years and I, for one, consider myself to be rational
and I don't care what others believe. If that is a bilious outburst, so be
it

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 15 May 2014 06:25:03 GMT, Zaky Waky wrote:

I've never seen so many old cranks in any other NG. What is even more
interesting is that one can discern from the posting time of responses that
most of you old mos must spend a large part of your day posting to this NG.
I guess being on "disability" give you a lot of time and posting here gives
you something to do.

It's pitiful, but entertaining.

Is anybody here under 60 years old?


You asked this a few weeks back. Are you that lame as to have to use
the same troll every month? Did you already forget this has been
asked? By the time you are 60, you will be so pathetically brain dead
you will post this every day.

Hi.
No, he won't even remember his own name or any thing.

On 5/15/2014 10:10 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Mayayana" wrote in message

I've never seen so many old cranks in any other NG.

I have. I find the crowd here to be mostly intelligent
and courteous. Many of the tech groups I've visited
have a high population of what I'd call unsocialized
geeks, who tend to be mean-spirited, close-minded, and
barely literate.

snipped rest

Good post and reasonably accurate, I would judge.

One point, not all atheists - or believers/acceptors - are irrational. I've
been an atheist for 65 years and I, for one, consider myself to be rational
and I don't care what others believe. If that is a bilious outburst, so be
it

My policy has been to treat everyone's beliefs with respect until they
give me a reason not to. Such as threatening to behead me if I don't
convert to their religion. O_o

TDD

On Thu, 15 May 2014 04:06:00 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Whacky Zacky, what age group are you in and how many nyms do you use?

A couple in the past week. I think this is the guy NE of Wichita, KS,
that used sand paper to clean paint off his window with sand paper. He
posted under Google and today under his ISP.

On 5/15/2014 10:43 AM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2014 04:06:00 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Whacky Zacky, what age group are you in and how many nyms do you use?

A couple in the past week. I think this is the guy NE of Wichita, KS,
that used sand paper to clean paint off his window with sand paper. He
posted under Google and today under his ISP.

He/she/it is a poopy head. ^_^

TDD

On 5/15/2014 11:42 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
My policy has been to treat everyone's beliefs with respect until they
give me a reason not to. Such as threatening to behead me if I don't
convert to their religion. O_o

TDD

If you don't convert to Mormon, I may
send people out to ring your door bell.
Then, you'll be sorry.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Thu, 15 May 2014 09:41:34 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote in

| I've never seen so many old cranks in any other NG.

I have. I find the crowd here to be mostly intelligent
and courteous. Many of the tech groups I've visited
have a high population of what I'd call unsocialized geeks,
who tend to be mean-spirited, close-minded, and barely
literate. I recently decided to check out philosophy groups,
but ended up dropping them because even when someone
posted a coherent, interesting post, most discussion tended
to degenerate into "atheist mania". (I never knew "atheists"
were such an irrational, steamed-up bunch. They hang around
in the philosophy groups, awaiting any opportunity for a
bilious outbourst about their inflamed belief that they don't
believe anything.

| Is anybody here under 60 years old?

I am, but just barely. I find that an interesting point.
I think the people in most newsgroups are mostly older.
The baby boomers know the Internet as a public information
and sharing medium. Younger people have grown up in
a commercial culture. They spend their youth in commercially
owned shopping malls and live their social lives hosted by
corporate service companies like Facebook. For the most
part, these are people who have no experience of citizenship
in any part of their lives. They know themselves and others
as "consumers". They go online to "consume" services from
Facebook, Foursquare, etc, in lieu of a social life.

I find the whole thing both fascinating and scary.
Newsgroups are a simple, text-based conversation medium
that can provide help in almost all areas of life, yet their
"unofficial", non-commercial nature -- the fact that the
participants pretty much make the groups what they are --
makes them virtually invisible to people who live as
consumers.

Good points. Well said.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

| One point, not all atheists - or believers/acceptors - are irrational.
I've
| been an atheist for 65 years and I, for one, consider myself to be
rational
| and I don't care what others believe. If that is a bilious outburst, so
be
| it
|

There seems to be somewhat of a movement happening:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Atheism
http://archive.wired.com/wired/archi...1/atheism.html

I hadn't really noticed until I saw the posts of the people
in the philosophy group. I think most of the people I know
are either atheists or can't even be bothered to think about
it. We've become a country of "scientific materialists" or
"concretists". (It's hard to even come up with a name because
the view that religion is mostly irrelevant has become an
unconscious assumption in the mainstream.) But the atheist
"movement" seems to be essentially a new religion that sees
itself as standing against the oppression of organized religions.
They feel a need to actually assert what they view as rational
thought, forcefully rejecting all possible realities or aspects
of reality save for the basic knowledge that can be confirmed
by scientific observation. Ironically, they seem to be vehement
and thoroughly irrational in their attitudes, very much like a
fundamentalist religious cult. The cult of scientism.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message

On 5/15/2014 11:42 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
My policy has been to treat everyone's beliefs with
respect until they give me a reason not to. Such as
threatening to behead me if I don't convert to their
religion. O_o TDD

If you don't convert to Mormon, I may
send people out to ring your door bell.
Then, you'll be sorry.

They'll have to squeeze by the Jehovah's Witnesses


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

"Mayayana" wrote in message

One point, not all atheists - or believers/acceptors -
are irrational. I've been an atheist for 65 years and
I, for one, consider myself to be rational and I don't
care what others believe. If that is a bilious
outburst, so be it


There seems to be somewhat of a movement happening:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Atheism
http://archive.wired.com/wired/archi...1/atheism.html

I hadn't really noticed until I saw the posts of the
people
in the philosophy group. I think most of the people I know
are either atheists or can't even be bothered to think
about
it. We've become a country of "scientific materialists" or
"concretists". (It's hard to even come up with a name
because the view that religion is mostly irrelevant has
become an unconscious assumption in the mainstream.) But
the atheist "movement" seems to be essentially a new
religion that sees itself as standing against the
oppression of organized religions. They feel a need to
actually assert what they view as rational thought,
forcefully rejecting all possible realities or aspects of
reality save for the basic knowledge that can be
confirmed
by scientific observation. Ironically, they seem to be
vehement and thoroughly irrational in their attitudes,
very much like a fundamentalist religious cult. The cult
of scientism.

Seems silly to me, a fruitless endeavour that has virtually zero chance of
success (success being changing someone's mind) because those of opposite
view are operating on faith.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Thu, 15 May 2014 05:41:48 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 15 May 2014 06:25:03 GMT, Zaky Waky wrote:

I've never seen so many old cranks in any other NG. What is even more
interesting is that one can discern from the posting time of responses that
most of you old mos must spend a large part of your day posting to this NG.
I guess being on "disability" give you a lot of time and posting here gives
you something to do.

It's pitiful, but entertaining.

Is anybody here under 60 years old?


You asked this a few weeks back. Are you that lame as to have to use
the same troll every month? Did you already forget this has been
asked? By the time you are 60, you will be so pathetically brain dead
you will post this every day.

Forgetting what one posts is the second sign of senility...

On 05/15/2014 12:17 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2014 05:41:48 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 15 May 2014 06:25:03 GMT, Zaky Waky wrote:

I've never seen so many old cranks in any other NG. What is even more
interesting is that one can discern from the posting time of responses that
most of you old mos must spend a large part of your day posting to this NG.
I guess being on "disability" give you a lot of time and posting here gives
you something to do.

It's pitiful, but entertaining.

Is anybody here under 60 years old?


You asked this a few weeks back. Are you that lame as to have to use
the same troll every month? Did you already forget this has been
asked? By the time you are 60, you will be so pathetically brain dead
you will post this every day.

Forgetting what one posts is the second sign of senility...


Why now! Why! Well, oh crap, I forgot.

Zaky Waky:

I'll agree with Mayayana on that. Don't tell him I said this, but one of the exceptions that Mayayana may be referring to is a fella that posts under different aliases, but mostly goes by the name "HomeGuy". You may find him hard to get along with because he seems to enjoy denegrating America and all things American. From what I've been able to gather, he feels his justification for doing so is that in 2008 the US Housing Mortgage crisis almost destabilized the world's banking system and sent a lot of national economies into a defensive mode whereby they stopped trading in US mortgage-backed securities with other national economies for fear their economy would be damaged too.

Personally, I think this is very unreasonable of him because no one in this forum had anything to do with that mortgage fiasco, and if anything, the Americans in here suffered as much if not more than he did because of their property values plummeting as a result of the glut of empty houses that flooded the real estate market at the time as a result of people not being able to meet their mortgage payments. It would be like the Americans in here blaming me (another Canadian) for the fact that Justin Bieber was speeding through the streets and avenues of Hollywood in a rented Lamborghini. If it was up to me, I'd take that toy away from him, but it isn't up to me. Similarily, it wasn't up to any of the Americans in here to sell teaser mortgages to people that couldn't remember if they had a job, and if so, where they worked. And, that was pretty well what caused that mortgage fiasco; the US selling US mortgage backed securities world wide when they knew that the mortgages weren't worth the paper they were printed on. Still, the Americans in here were as much victims as anyone else in that regard.

You can usually tell HomeGuy's posts because they start off citing something some American did somewhere which is deplorable in one respect or another, and he then claims that such behaviour is typical of what to expect from Americans in general. For example, if some Yank chops the head off a rooster and leaves it's carcass in the street to rot, then it's the Americans IN HERE that he holds accountable.

But, don't tell HomeGuy I said that. We'll just keep it between ourselves, OK?

On 5/14/2014 11:25 PM, Zaky Waky wrote:
I've never seen so many old cranks in any other NG. What is even more
interesting is that one can discern from the posting time of responses that
most of you old mos must spend a large part of your day posting to this NG.
I guess being on "disability" give you a lot of time and posting here gives
you something to do.

It's pitiful, but entertaining.

Is anybody here under 60 years old?

You want answers? That's who to ask. Not the little twenty-something
geeks who live in Mom's basement, have their nose plastered to a game
box, and whose hearing is gone from wearing ear buds at max volume.

They can fix nothing. They just buy another, or better yet, let Mommy
buy it for them. They are sitting home after a six year bender called
college, where they came away with a degree in ancient Greek pottery,
and are waiting for an answer to the two resumes they sent out asking
for $80,000 starting pay with benefits and retirement.

They can't weld, they can't tell you the wrench size between 1/2 and 5/8
inches, and don't know a #2 from a #3 Phillips screwdriver. Lucky for
AAA or we'd have many thousands of deaths each winter from their ilk
freezing to death after sitting in an idling car until the gas ran out
wondering what to do about a flat tire.

Talk about pitiful? And you are definitely are entertaining, too.
Getting several twenties out of your pocket for a repair job that took
me less than fifteen minutes actual work time. Or thousands for a
simple sheetrock or tile job.

Now, go check, and make sure you closed the basement door, and be sure
to remember where Mom hid the secret key for you in case you get locked out.

Steve

On Thu, 15 May 2014 10:57:22 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 5/15/2014 10:43 AM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2014 04:06:00 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Whacky Zacky, what age group are you in and how many nyms do you use?

A couple in the past week. I think this is the guy NE of Wichita, KS,
that used sand paper to clean paint off his window with sand paper. He
posted under Google and today under his ISP.

He/she/it is a poopy head. ^_^

TDD

The OP can confirm that. If he lives off of Highway 77, north of El
Dorado sp. East of Wichita.

On Thu, 15 May 2014 12:18:56 -0700, Todd wrote:

If you don't convert to Mormon, I may
send people out to ring your door bell.
Then, you'll be sorry.

They'll have to squeeze by the Jehovah's Witnesses



No doubt past the yellow crime scene tape and the
chalk outlines!

....or it I opened the front door, buck nekkid in my birthday suit;
exposing dangling participles

On Thu, 15 May 2014 16:07:39 -0700, SteveB wrote:

Steve,

Do you know a guy at metro named "Sutton"? The younger one, not
retired.

SteveB posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


On 5/14/2014 11:25 PM, Zaky Waky wrote:
I've never seen so many old cranks in any other NG. What is even more
interesting is that one can discern from the posting time of responses that
most of you old mos must spend a large part of your day posting to this NG.
I guess being on "disability" give you a lot of time and posting here gives
you something to do.

It's pitiful, but entertaining.

Is anybody here under 60 years old?

You want answers? That's who to ask. Not the little twenty-something
geeks who live in Mom's basement, have their nose plastered to a game
box, and whose hearing is gone from wearing ear buds at max volume.

They can fix nothing. They just buy another, or better yet, let Mommy
buy it for them. They are sitting home after a six year bender called
college, where they came away with a degree in ancient Greek pottery,
and are waiting for an answer to the two resumes they sent out asking
for $80,000 starting pay with benefits and retirement.

They can't weld, they can't tell you the wrench size between 1/2 and 5/8
inches, and don't know a #2 from a #3 Phillips screwdriver. Lucky for
AAA or we'd have many thousands of deaths each winter from their ilk
freezing to death after sitting in an idling car until the gas ran out
wondering what to do about a flat tire.

Talk about pitiful? And you are definitely are entertaining, too.
Getting several twenties out of your pocket for a repair job that took
me less than fifteen minutes actual work time. Or thousands for a
simple sheetrock or tile job.

Now, go check, and make sure you closed the basement door, and be sure
to remember where Mom hid the secret key for you in case you get locked out.

Steve

Good one! I wonder if the key is chipped? Ya think the GPS is on in the
phone so mommy can bail them out?

--
Tekkie

On 5/15/2014 2:50 PM, dadiOH wrote:
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
If you don't convert to Mormon, I may
send people out to ring your door bell.
Then, you'll be sorry.

They'll have to squeeze by the Jehovah's Witnesses


And they will have to pay 25 cents for the
Paradise Earth pamphlet.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 5/15/2014 2:55 PM, dadiOH wrote:

Seems silly to me, a fruitless endeavour that has virtually zero chance of
success (success being changing someone's mind) because those of opposite
view are operating on faith.


If the investigator prays to know if the
message is true, and the investigator gets
the yes answer, then it's possible. I like
to think that all churches have some
portion of truth. When Jews accept Christ
as saviour, that's adopting more truth.
When Bible readers accept the Book of Mormon
and join LDS, that's even more truth. A lot
of people leave other churches and join LDS.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 5/15/2014 3:17 PM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Thu, 15 May 2014 05:41:48 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
You asked this a few weeks back. Are you that lame as to have to use
the same troll every month? Did you already forget this has been
asked? By the time you are 60, you will be so pathetically brain dead
you will post this every day.

Forgetting what one posts is the second sign of senility...


One of these days, I've got to write about how
all churches have part of the truth, and how
a lot of people leave other churches and join
LDS church. Right after I find what I did with
my breakfast. It was right here, under these
empty dishes.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 5/15/2014 11:42 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
My policy has been to treat everyone's beliefs with respect until they
give me a reason not to. Such as threatening to behead me if I don't
convert to their religion. O_o

TDD
Looks like you got your wish, or nightmare.

http://allenbwest.com/2014/05/coexis...ion-jerusalem/

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message

On 5/15/2014 2:55 PM, dadiOH wrote:

Seems silly to me, a fruitless endeavour that has
virtually zero chance of success (success being
changing someone's mind) because those of opposite view
are operating on faith.

If the investigator prays to know if the
message is true, and the investigator gets
the yes answer, then it's possible. I like
to think that all churches have some
portion of truth. When Jews accept Christ
as saviour, that's adopting more truth.
When Bible readers accept the Book of Mormon
and join LDS, that's even more truth. A lot
of people leave other churches and join LDS.

Substitute "faith" for "truth" and I could agree, more or less.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Friday, May 16, 2014 8:46:51 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?

Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?

Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

"$356,457" does the number have significance?

| Seems silly to me, a fruitless endeavour that has
| virtually zero chance of success (success being
| changing someone's mind) because those of opposite view
| are operating on faith.
|
| If the investigator prays to know if the
| message is true, and the investigator gets
| the yes answer, then it's possible. I like
| to think that all churches have some
| portion of truth. When Jews accept Christ
| as saviour, that's adopting more truth.
| When Bible readers accept the Book of Mormon
| and join LDS, that's even more truth. A lot
| of people leave other churches and join LDS.
|
| Substitute "faith" for "truth" and I could agree, more or less.
|

Those seem like pretty rubbery terms to me. Stormin
Mormon has not defined truth. You've not defined faith.
I know the Mormons are very big on evangelism and on
absolute belief in relative "facts", which have always
seemed to me like the most dependable indicators
of a lack of faith. In other words, if one needs to have
cornered the market on some kind of absolute truth, or needs
to sell their system to others, that's indicative of lack of
confidence. It also indicates people who *need* for their
religion to be a solution to their hopes and/or fears, rather
than a practice.

Stormin Mormon seems to be implying that there's an
absolute truth, and an absolute, single creator entity,
and that the Mormon's hold some sort of exclusive license
to those. (Though he's generously granting a partial sub-
license to Jews and Christians.

You seem to be defining faith as simple blind belief. I
think that's the way most non-religious people view faith.
Maybe it's also Stormin Mormon's definition. But that's a
definition tainted by scientific thinking. The scientist wants
to reduce the discussion to something objectively measurable:
God must be a distinct, living entity like ourselves, because
that's the only version science can cope with. That entity,
then, must either exist concretely or not, because that's
the only way that science can understand it and test for it.
If we can't find any scientific evidence of the existence (like
seeing a 3 mile long beard through our telescopes) then the
God entity must be an expression of blind belief. What can't be
contained within the narrow purview of science is by definition
irrelevant nonsense.

Science can't know what it can't know. It makes a
host of assumptions about the nature of reality that
it can't see by definition. Science can never find God
because it's looking for science's version of God. Science
can never know faith aside from simple belief because it
can't come up with "objective" tests for it. The same problem
holds with the field of psychology, which tries to shoehorn
mind into scientific method. But how do we objectively
observe mind? How do we know it's merely a physical process?
Psychologists catalog symptoms and brain scans, and they
hand out happy pills. What else can they do within the confines
of science? Should people be happy? What is mind? What's
the meaning of life? Ask those questions to a psychologist or
scientist and you get the kind of absurd nonsense that the
sociobiologists use as a fig leaf over their ignorance and
limited tools: They say life is DNA's way to reproduce itself.

In my experience, whether people follow a theistic religion
or not, faith (as opposed to blind faith) is about the confidence
of experience, not belief. It's not about blind belief in God
as a giant man in the sky. It's about experience of
God. A simple example: I used to live next door to an elderly
Catholic couple. They had little shrines in every corner of
their house. Objectively I'd have to say they were pantheists
and followers of the fading embers of the Roman Empire. But
they also seemed to have true faith that they had got from
the Catholic teachings. They had an intuitive, experiential
confidence that the tenets of their religion represent basic
truths. That confidence inspired them to try to act according
to Christian ideals, with kindness toward others and moral
discipline toward themselves. Whether or not they believed in
Heaven as some sort of eternal Club Med, they had confidence
that their efforts were worthwhile. And I think they'd probably
say that was a self-evident truth. A scientist can only hand
those people a survey: Do you believe in God? Do you consider
yourself to be a Catholic? None of what the scientist can discover
even touches on what their faith means to that elderly couple.

I remember as a nominally Christian child I was told that God
was in the sugar bowl, and everywhere else. I wrestled with
that. How can he be everywhere? I think of that now as a
kind of koan. It's not a definition of God. It's a reflection practice;
a contemplation meant to get beyond limiting ways of looking
at reality. Someone who says God is in the sugarbowl surely
sees God as something a bit more interesting than a giant
man living in the sky who has the power to help you win the
lottery.

Todd wrote:
Speaking of pushing 60, I am debating whether or not to
become a "toothless old fart" or a "Curmudgeon".
Still working on that cane shaking thing: "Ki-ki-ki-kids
these days!" Now was that two shakes or three?
Got the toothless part down pretty good so far. But,
Curmudgeon sounds more fun.

Still having too much fun (trout fear me!).

At about your age, I became a snowboarder. I am having way more fun, at that,
playing volleyball and bicycleing. I don't think I'll ever choose your
alternatives.

On 5/16/2014 6:23 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 5/15/2014 11:42 AM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
My policy has been to treat everyone's beliefs with respect until
they give me a reason not to. Such as threatening to behead me if
I don't convert to their religion. O_o

TDD
Looks like you got your wish, or nightmare.

http://allenbwest.com/2014/05/coexis...ion-jerusalem/

All that discrimination by Muslims against other religions is OK
according to P.L.L.C.F. because they believe everyone must kiss Islamic
ass. I think they're worried they'll get beheaded if they insult Islam.
Of course they can disparage Christians all day long because they know
that Christians won't kill them for insulting Christianity. o_O

TDD

On Fri, 16 May 2014 12:01:42 -0700, Todd wrote:

...or it I opened the front door, buck nekkid in my birthday suit;
exposing dangling participles


Hi Oren,

I have heard of that before.

My brother use to offer them Rum Balls. (Where
I grew up, they drank like fish, but one must
keep up appearances when evangelizing.)

As my father was Mormon, we were a kind of special
project to them. To this day, I will not wear
a skinny black tie.

:-)

-T

They meant well. They were trying to share something
important in their lives, so you have to honor them
for that. Now eat your rum balls!


What Mormons believe really doesn't bother me. Or any other group.
I've known and worked building a home for a couple, most recently.

They've never tried to convert me or anything like that. A nice and
decent family. Strong family ties that people could emulate in this
day and time.

Have our Jewish friends coming to Vegas at the end of the month. They
are a trip, for sure. We don't talk about religious things. They are
friends for 35 years, former co-workers and a hoot.

"Bob_Villa" wrote in message

On Friday, May 16, 2014 8:46:51 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?

Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?

Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

"$356,457" does the number have significance?

Yes. I hate things like $9.95 or $359,500. It also makes people wonder...


I had a friend who also set odd appointment times - 9:13, 2:52 etc. -
because people remembered them and showed up on time. Generally.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Friday, May 16, 2014 2:27:31 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:

"$356,457" does the number have significance?



Yes. I hate things like $9.95 or $359,500. It also makes people wonder...


Okay...why not $350,000 then? (that's not an offer BTW!)

On 5/16/2014 2:57 PM, Todd wrote:
Maybe we are seeing a crack in Stormin' belief system, as
this is not Mormon teaching. We "Gentiles", as they call
us, is all going to hell.

SM: I'd like you to find that on www.lds.org or
other authorized LDS teachings. I've never heard
that.

And especially those like
myself that loudly proclaim the Jesus of the Christians.
I do believe his revealing angle referred to us and me
specifically as "abominations".

Sm: I vaguely remember Moroni said that the
non-LDS churches of that day were abomination. I'd
have to go back and look.


One of the not so admirable things I remember as a child
was my grandfather bouncing my sister up and down on his
knee (they liked that kind of stuff) and telling her she
was going to hell because she was not a Mormon. Grandmother
has the grace to be embarrassed. My sister was traumatized
for years, not to mention pretty ****ed.

SM: I'd like some evidence of this teaching.



(like seeing a 3 mile long beard through our telescopes)

I love it!

Science and religion don't mix. As an Orthodox
Christian, I am required to believe that God created
the Heavens and the Earth and all things seen and unseen.
And I so very much do.

Now, "how" God created the universe, is up to him. And
"how" is not a tenant of faith. I can study, speculate
as to "how" as much as I want, but still not a tenant
of faith.

And the "truth" in science is a moving target. As
an Orthodox saint once said: seek not the truth in
science, as today's truths are always tomorrows
falsehoods. (Don't believe me, look up "Caloric".)

And science has its place. As stated in the Bible:

And he hath given men skill, that he might be
honoured in his marvellous works.
--Wisdom of Sirach (Apocrypha), chapter 38, v6:

They had an intuitive, experiential
confidence that the tenets of their religion represent basic
truths. That confidence inspired them to try to act according
to Christian ideals, with kindness toward others and moral
discipline toward themselves.

Wonderful explanation. Thank you!

In the end, I do believe that religions completing with
each other in this way will be the ultimate salvation
of humanity. As the Jesus of the Christians teaches,
What so ever you do unto the least of you, you do
unto me. By being decent to others (ALL OTHERS, not just
your own kind!), you are touching the face of God.
And, no cutting other's heads off! (That is a good
way to really, really good was to **** off the Lord.)

I think one of the things you missed in your wonderful
exposition (are you a professional writer?) was that
to me, and I presume other Christians, our faith is
not a blind theoretical abstract. It is a living and
defining part of me/us. I have a personal relationship
with Jesus. A Saint actually sought me out (made me really
work at it to figure out was was going on too).

As far as Stormin' goes. He is obviously a nice guy
and routinely touches the face of the single and only
God, even if the God he is touching is not the one
Stormin' thinks it is. (Mormon's believe in multiple Gods
and that you can become one yourself. Christians are
strict monotheists.)

SM: Well, at least I get called a nice guy once
in a while.


This is why when I tease him about smacking him over the
head with a newspaper in heaven, I am careful to include
him in heaven with me. (I think he is a little to big
to bounce up and down on me knee and tell him he is going
to heaven.) He is not an "Abomination" the the eyes
of the Christian God.

SM: Who can tell? I might lose a few pounds in the
resurrection.


And yes, I have voices in my head (usually to scold me),
which is why Left Wing Atheists think I should not be
allow to vote. (Mainly because I don't vote for their
guys.)

"Mayayana" wrote in message

Seems silly to me, a fruitless endeavour that has
virtually zero chance of success (success being
changing someone's mind) because those of opposite view
are operating on faith.

If the investigator prays to know if the
message is true, and the investigator gets
the yes answer, then it's possible. I like
to think that all churches have some
portion of truth. When Jews accept Christ
as saviour, that's adopting more truth.
When Bible readers accept the Book of Mormon
and join LDS, that's even more truth. A lot
of people leave other churches and join LDS.

Substitute "faith" for "truth" and I could agree, more or less.


Those seem like pretty rubbery terms to me. Stormin
Mormon has not defined truth. You've not defined faith.

For me, "faith" is a belief in something one has not observed or
experienced. Now, all of us - most of us - have faith in something. Not
surprising since no one is likely to have observed or experienced
EVERYthing; for example, I have faith in the existence of sub-atomic
particles in their various persuasions even though I have no first hand
experience with most of them. However, when faith deals with religion, my
faith leaves...my experiences and observations do not support second or
greater hand stories - many/most of them years/decades/centuries after the
fact - nor the highly likely misinterpretations or mistranslations.

It was not always so. I grew up going to Sunday school, even church on
occasion. I swallowed the little wafer and drank the grape juice (I liked
the grape juice, the wafers need some salt!). At the time (early 40s) there
was also an option available to parents for their offspring to attend church
school once a week for a half day - or maybe a couple of hours, don't
recall - instead of public school. My parents exercised that option so I
was well indoctrinated. I believed.

More properly, I accepted...I accepted what I was taught. I did so because
those doing the teaching were older, wiser and more experienced than I was;
I respected them. Of course, they were the same folks that were swearing
that Santa Claus was real.

During this period we lived next to a parsonage, I forget the denomination,
and like most little kids chatted with neighbors from time to time. The
parson created the first chink in my belief armor when he advised me that
animals could not go to heaven because they lacked a soul. I thought that
was unfair then and were I a believer now I still would.

In my mid-teens I developed an interest in religion and read everything I
could find about the various and their origins. Each professed to be the
true religion, each was very much like the others. I also thought about
what I had been taught compared to what I had read and (minimally, at that
time) observed. Common sense kicked in and I embraced atheism. Actually, I
embraced agnosticism for a couple of years, mainly to avoid death by stoning


I have no quarrel with believers. Life is not always easy and anything that
helps people over the rough spots is fine with me; however, I do think that
the vast majority have never THOUGHT about what they have been taught...they
have never asked themselves whether this or that aspect actually makes sense
to them.
__________________________

I know the Mormons are very big on evangelism and on
absolute belief in relative "facts", which have always
seemed to me like the most dependable indicators
of a lack of faith. In other words, if one needs to have
cornered the market on some kind of absolute truth, or needs
to sell their system to others, that's indicative of lack of
confidence. It also indicates people who *need* for their
religion to be a solution to their hopes and/or fears, rather
than a practice.

Agreed. For many, it is a bail out clause...betting on the come

My elder brother - he'll be 89 in a couple of weeks - converted to
catholicism a couple of years ago. I never knew him to be religious and
that's what I think he is doing...betting on the come...hedging his bets for
when he is no more. Fine with me.
___________________________

Stormin Mormon seems to be implying that there's an
absolute truth, and an absolute, single creator entity,
and that the Mormon's hold some sort of exclusive license
to those. (Though he's generously granting a partial sub-
license to Jews and Christians.

Need the license be renewed frm time to time?
________________________

You seem to be defining faith as simple blind belief. I
think that's the way most non-religious people view faith.
Maybe it's also Stormin Mormon's definition. But that's a
definition tainted by scientific thinking. The scientist wants
to reduce the discussion to something objectively measurable:
God must be a distinct, living entity like ourselves, because
that's the only version science can cope with. That entity,
then, must either exist concretely or not, because that's
the only way that science can understand it and test for it.
If we can't find any scientific evidence of the existence (like
seeing a 3 mile long beard through our telescopes) then the
God entity must be an expression of blind belief. What can't be
contained within the narrow purview of science is by definition
irrelevant nonsense.

Science can't know what it can't know. It makes a
host of assumptions about the nature of reality that
it can't see by definition.

Indeed.

I used to enjoy reading/thinking about cosmology. I no longer do, it fries
my brain...I cannot conceive of an infinite universe nor can I conceive of a
finite one; I have trouble getting my head around a big bang too...my head
won't handle everything condensed into something itsy-bitsy of infinite mass
then going BOOM and expanding to god - you should excuse the phrase - knows
where. I'm assuming that space was also condensed so into what was
everything expanding?
______________________________

Science can never find God
because it's looking for science's version of God. Science
can never know faith aside from simple belief because it
can't come up with "objective" tests for it. The same problem
holds with the field of psychology, which tries to shoehorn
mind into scientific method. But how do we objectively
observe mind? How do we know it's merely a physical process?
Psychologists catalog symptoms and brain scans, and they
hand out happy pills. What else can they do within the confines
of science? Should people be happy? What is mind?

What's the meaning of life?

I'm glad you asked that because I have the answer: there is none.
__________________________

In my experience, whether people follow a theistic religion
or not, faith (as opposed to blind faith) is about the confidence
of experience, not belief. It's not about blind belief in God
as a giant man in the sky. It's about experience of
God. A simple example: I used to live next door to an elderly
Catholic couple. They had little shrines in every corner of
their house. Objectively I'd have to say they were pantheists
and followers of the fading embers of the Roman Empire. But
they also seemed to have true faith that they had got from
the Catholic teachings. They had an intuitive, experiential
confidence that the tenets of their religion represent basic
truths. That confidence inspired them to try to act according
to Christian ideals, with kindness toward others and moral
discipline toward themselves. Whether or not they believed in
Heaven as some sort of eternal Club Med, they had confidence
that their efforts were worthwhile. And I think they'd probably
say that was a self-evident truth. A scientist can only hand
those people a survey: Do you believe in God? Do you consider
yourself to be a Catholic? None of what the scientist can discover
even touches on what their faith means to that elderly couple.

I remember as a nominally Christian child I was told that God
was in the sugar bowl, and everywhere else. I wrestled with
that. How can he be everywhere? I think of that now as a
kind of koan. It's not a definition of God. It's a reflection
practice; a contemplation meant to get beyond limiting ways of
looking
at reality. Someone who says God is in the sugarbowl surely
sees God as something a bit more interesting than a giant
man living in the sky who has the power to help you win the
lottery.

I once lived somewhere, don't recall where, where the personals in the daily
newspaper frequently contained ads thanking Saint So-and-so for "favors
granted". Really? Something the person wanted and prayed for actually came
true? Because of the blessed saint's intervention? And the saint is a
newpaper subscriber and sees the ad thanking him/her? OK...

PS - I enjoyed your thesis, you obviously use your head for more than
growing hair.


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net