On Saturday, April 12, 2014 12:19:31 PM UTC-5, TomR wrote:
Bob_Villa wrote:

Tom...now you're starting to repeat yourself! Try not to ramble...*L*



True. I did decide to repeat myself here. Seemed like a good idea at the

time!



I noticed in one of your posts that you installed Windows 7 on a Dell

computer. I thought of doing that, and it is still a possibility, but my

two computers are Dell Dimension 3000 and are probably too old and too

limited in resources to be a good choice for installing Windows 7.

The max for the Dim 3000 is 2Gb (which wouldn't be cheap for DDR) and would fairly run Win7 32-bit. I have some salvaged from a 3000 if you want it!

TomR wrote:
Bob_Villa wrote:
Tom...now you're starting to repeat yourself! Try not to ramble...*L*

True. I did decide to repeat myself here. Seemed like a good idea at the
time!

I noticed in one of your posts that you installed Windows 7 on a Dell
computer. I thought of doing that, and it is still a possibility, but my
two computers are Dell Dimension 3000 and are probably too old and too
limited in resources to be a good choice for installing Windows 7.



Hi,
You can run compatibility test to see the result. I replaced mother
board and salvaged what I could, added SATA
drives, BD drive, then I could load W7 or W8 and Linux Ubuntu in multi
boot set up. It has 3 optical drives, about 15 TB disk storage(some are
old SCSI 750GB drives I picked up at recycle depot for 10.00 a piece)
Still older Intel LGA775 Quad cpu with 8 GB of memory. Even has FDD, LOL!

But mostly I use newer ASUS ROG laptop with 17" display. When I travel I
still carry an old Thinkpad TP61P which has upgraded dual band WiFi
card. It is all matter of spending least amount of $$....

Bob_Villa wrote:
On Saturday, April 12, 2014 12:19:31 PM UTC-5, TomR wrote:
Bob_Villa wrote:

Tom...now you're starting to repeat yourself! Try not to
ramble...*L*

True. I did decide to repeat myself here. Seemed like a good idea
at the

time!

I noticed in one of your posts that you installed Windows 7 on a Dell
computer. I thought of doing that, and it is still a possibility,
but my
two computers are Dell Dimension 3000 and are probably too old and
too
limited in resources to be a good choice for installing Windows 7.

The max for the Dim 3000 is 2Gb (which wouldn't be cheap for DDR) and
would fairly run Win7 32-bit. I have some salvaged from a 3000 if you
want it!

Thanks. The 2 Dell Dimension 3000 computers that we have already have 2 GB
of memory installed. But, I think they may have other limitations that would
make putting Win7 on them not a good idea, especially if I can get
refurbished Win7 PC's with more RAM and a high processor speed for not too
much money.

For example, I just did a Google search for "refurbished Windows 7
computers" and saw some through Best Buy (one of their resellers) for around
$230 with lots of memory, higher processor speed, 64-bit, with a monitor,
etc.

Tony Hwang wrote:
TomR wrote:
Bob_Villa wrote:
Tom...now you're starting to repeat yourself! Try not to
ramble...*L*

True. I did decide to repeat myself here. Seemed like a good idea
at the time!

I noticed in one of your posts that you installed Windows 7 on a Dell
computer. I thought of doing that, and it is still a possibility,
but my two computers are Dell Dimension 3000 and are probably too
old and too limited in resources to be a good choice for installing
Windows 7.
Hi,
You can run compatibility test to see the result. I replaced mother
board and salvaged what I could, added SATA
drives, BD drive, then I could load W7 or W8 and Linux Ubuntu in multi
boot set up. It has 3 optical drives, about 15 TB disk storage(some
are old SCSI 750GB drives I picked up at recycle depot for 10.00 a
piece) Still older Intel LGA775 Quad cpu with 8 GB of memory. Even
has FDD, LOL!
But mostly I use newer ASUS ROG laptop with 17" display. When I
travel I still carry an old Thinkpad TP61P which has upgraded dual
band WiFi card. It is all matter of spending least amount of $$....

Thanks Tony. I'll do the compatibility test and see what happens.

But, I wouldn't be up to the task of changing mother boards, adding parts,
etc., so that wouldn't be an option for me.

On 4/12/2014 5:01 PM, TomR wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote:
TomR wrote:
Bob_Villa wrote:
Tom...now you're starting to repeat yourself! Try not to
ramble...*L*

True. I did decide to repeat myself here. Seemed like a good idea
at the time!

I noticed in one of your posts that you installed Windows 7 on a Dell
computer. I thought of doing that, and it is still a possibility,
but my two computers are Dell Dimension 3000 and are probably too
old and too limited in resources to be a good choice for installing
Windows 7.
Hi,
You can run compatibility test to see the result. I replaced mother
board and salvaged what I could, added SATA
drives, BD drive, then I could load W7 or W8 and Linux Ubuntu in multi
boot set up. It has 3 optical drives, about 15 TB disk storage(some
are old SCSI 750GB drives I picked up at recycle depot for 10.00 a
piece) Still older Intel LGA775 Quad cpu with 8 GB of memory. Even
has FDD, LOL!
But mostly I use newer ASUS ROG laptop with 17" display. When I
travel I still carry an old Thinkpad TP61P which has upgraded dual
band WiFi card. It is all matter of spending least amount of $$....

Thanks Tony. I'll do the compatibility test and see what happens.

But, I wouldn't be up to the task of changing mother boards, adding parts,
etc., so that wouldn't be an option for me.



That test is a joke.

An old ('07) desktop of mine that is now sitting in a closet (the
motherboard died) exceeded the minimum requirements for Win7 but it ran
a lot faster with XP on it.

I had to make a lot of tweaks in order to get Win7 running somewhat
smoothly.

On Saturday, April 12, 2014 5:30:07 PM UTC-5, Ron wrote:

An old ('07) desktop of mine that is now sitting in a closet (the

motherboard died) exceeded the minimum requirements for Win7 but it ran

a lot faster with XP on it.



I had to make a lot of tweaks in order to get Win7 running somewhat

smoothly.
The '04 Dell I have (a freebie) runs Win7 extremely well. I was the 1st production PC with ePCI, DDR2, SATA, and a P4/3.2Ghz. I never ran the compatibility test. (and yes, I am repeating myself...a little)

posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


On Thu, 10 Apr 2014 10:04:02 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| PC for 3+ years now. It came free with the HP system and I extended
| the license for 2 more years for $30. That was a good deal

It's a good deal compared to what it used to cost. Not
so long ago it was $70 just for the System Works software.
But now there are several well-regarded AV programs that
cost nothing. (I don't know how or why that makes sense
for those companies, but they are free.) Given the history of
Symantec I think there's no question that they would charge
you a lot more if they could get away with it.

If you don't know anything about Symantec's history
then you have no reason to avoid supporting their business.
But you still paid $30 for two years worth of a product
that's easily available for free. I think that fits with my
characterization of "unwitting". I don't mean to be insulting. I
just hate to see people taken in by sleazy companies.

There are a number of products that one just has no reason
to pay for, yet companies get away with selling those products
at a high price simply because the general public doesn't know
the facts. One can often find such products on the shelves
of software stores. Among them are AV, ZIP programs, CD/DVD
writer software, FTP programs, audio editing programs, music
player software, image viewers and hex editors. In all cases those
programs are available free, and the free versions are among the
best.

A truly bogus category is "cleaners" that claim to power up
your PC by removing bad Registry entries and unused junk files.
But lots of people buy that stuff. Those programs are 99%
useless. (They're 100% useless if you check and clean your
TEMP folder occasionally.) The typical Registry "cleaning"
procedure, removing hundreds of "faulty" entries, is roughly
equivalent to removing an old ballpoint pen from your packed
garage. The pen might truly be rubbish, but disposing
of it doesn't make your garage any more useful or any easier
to navigate.

If you don't think that's true then I invite you to look into
what Registry entries are removed and what their function is.
You'll find that the entries generally fall into 2 categories:

* Settings for software that's been removed. Those settings
are harmless and might be useful if the software is ever
re-installed. They take up less room than the ballpoint pen.

* HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT\CLSID\* These would be settings
for components that have been removed, probably when
software was uninstalled. Again, those settings are harmless.
If some software wants to use the specified component you'll
get an error whether the setting is left there or not, because
the component is gone.

But isn't it inefficient for this extra stuff to be left in the
Registry? No. There are several MB of data in the Registry.
Those unused settings might take up 1-10 KB. If you run a
Registry monitor while starting up Internet Explorer you'll
see that IE accesses the Registry *thousands* of times in
about 1 second when it loads. That's stunningly efficient.
To improve that speed by some fraction of a microsecond
would be trying to improve on the speed of instant.
You wouldn't buy a tool that promises to make your garage
door open faster by removing a ballpoint pen from a shelf in
the back of the garage. That's basically what Registry cleaners
claim to do.

All of that kind of thing could be broadly regarded as crapware.
It's not necessarily all bad software, but it's all stuff you don't
need and definitely shouldn't pay for.


What do you use? Just for my info. I won't criticize, just learn.

--
Tekkie

| All of that kind of thing could be broadly regarded as crapware.
| It's not necessarily all bad software, but it's all stuff you don't
| need and definitely shouldn't pay for.
|
|
| What do you use? Just for my info. I won't criticize, just learn.
|
What do I use for....cleaning? I don't. I don't
use any cleaners, AV, or "malware hunters". As I was
explaining above, I view Registry cleaners and general
system cleaners as more or less scam software. There
are things that can improve speed, which I listed in an
earlier post, but "cleaning" the Registry isn't one of them.

In terms of security, I'm careful of what I do online
and rarely enable script. I also don't install anything
from Adobe (Reader or Flash) and don't have Java
installed. So I guess you could say I use caution.

On XP I use the last free version of Onlne Armor
as a firewall. On Win7 I think I'm using Private Firewall.
I'm very concerned with both privacy and security.
I don't allow anything to go out that I'm not instigating,
which includes updaters. I don't allow any software to
self-update. That seems like a reckless and unstable
approach to me, and it's allowed software companies
to have their products in a constant state of semi-beta.

I don't think that no one should use AV. I think I already
explained my view on that kind of thing. For people who
are not going to deal with security issues, AV is probably
the next best thing, even though it drags on the system.

In terms of cleaning, I empty all TEMP folders
occasionally; I reinstall a clean disk image once
every year or two. (I keep an image with all the basic
software installed and configuration done.) I don't
install much that I don't really need and avoid bloatware
of any kind. I also avoid any additive programs, like
browser toolbars added by free software, useless crap
that's set to run by printer installers, ISPs, etc. I have
two programs set to run at startup: the firewall and a
mouse program. Most people have a dozen or more startup
programs running. I also keep the running services down to
a bare minimum.

On Sat, 12 Apr 2014 23:09:02 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| All of that kind of thing could be broadly regarded as crapware.
| It's not necessarily all bad software, but it's all stuff you don't
| need and definitely shouldn't pay for.
|
|
| What do you use? Just for my info. I won't criticize, just learn.
|
What do I use for....cleaning? I don't. I don't
use any cleaners, AV, or "malware hunters". As I was
explaining above, I view Registry cleaners and general
system cleaners as more or less scam software. There
are things that can improve speed, which I listed in an
earlier post, but "cleaning" the Registry isn't one of them.

In terms of security, I'm careful of what I do online
and rarely enable script. I also don't install anything
from Adobe (Reader or Flash) and don't have Java
installed. So I guess you could say I use caution.

On XP I use the last free version of Onlne Armor
as a firewall. On Win7 I think I'm using Private Firewall.
I'm very concerned with both privacy and security.
I don't allow anything to go out that I'm not instigating,
which includes updaters. I don't allow any software to
self-update. That seems like a reckless and unstable
approach to me, and it's allowed software companies
to have their products in a constant state of semi-beta.

I don't think that no one should use AV. I think I already
explained my view on that kind of thing. For people who
are not going to deal with security issues, AV is probably
the next best thing, even though it drags on the system.

In terms of cleaning, I empty all TEMP folders
occasionally; I reinstall a clean disk image once
every year or two. (I keep an image with all the basic
software installed and configuration done.) I don't
install much that I don't really need and avoid bloatware
of any kind. I also avoid any additive programs, like
browser toolbars added by free software, useless crap
that's set to run by printer installers, ISPs, etc. I have
two programs set to run at startup: the firewall and a
mouse program. Most people have a dozen or more startup
programs running. I also keep the running services down to
a bare minimum.


You are not a "typical" user.
And not as safe as you think. For Microsoft downloads, I always have
the computer set to download and notify - so I can determine what is
updated and when - but I ALWAYS apply the critical updates. I always
advisw my customers to do the same. To not install the security
patches supplied by microsoft is foolhardy.

To not use an antivirus of some sort is also foolhardy. Industrial
strength security is not required - and as far as firewalls, If you
are using a NAT router the average user does not need a firewall - and
software firewalls can severely affect performance (as well as
functionality if not setup just right).
Re-imaging a computer every year is a pain in the derrierre, and most
"customers" will not have a clean image available - which
neccessitates cleaning the system. Using the "disk cleanup" utility in
windows cleans up everything you mention - but does NOT restore system
speed on a computer that is used heavilly and has programs added,
deleted, upgraded or otherwise addressed. Microsoft's defrag program
is also pretty sketchy, but at least they provide it again (was not
there on NT)

There are two tools I use quite extensively. One only on my own
machines because I won't licence it on customer's machines - and one I
have a technician copy of - a product from Registry-Cleaner.net.

It alone solves MOST slow computer complaints that I run across. I
use the iobit product on my own machines - both the host and
virtuals. Their defrag tool is far superior to windows Defrag. Their
registry cleaner is about on a par with the R-C product but mabee a
bit faster. You need to know what you are doing with their product or
you can get yourself into trouble in a hurry.

Either one restores my system to full performance when it slows down -
and I have NEVER had to restore or re-install the OS on any of my
computers since before the days of Windows 98 SE. I can count on one
hand how many customer's machines have required a re-install to
address performance issues, and between only 2 customers I have over
80 systems I maintain on a regular basis. Just under half have been
converted to Win7 from XP.

Both customers have Guardware firewall devices with AV and spam
protection built in, and one also uses App-River mail filtering.

On Sunday, April 13, 2014 2:33:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:

It alone solves MOST slow computer complaints that I run across. I

use the iobit product on my own machines - both the host and

virtuals. Their defrag tool is far superior to windows Defrag. Their

registry cleaner is about on a par with the R-C product but mabee a

bit faster.

Here is something you should know about iobit: https://forums.malwarebytes.org/inde...howtopic=29681

"Bob_Villa" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, April 13, 2014 2:33:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:

It alone solves MOST slow computer complaints that I run across. I

use the iobit product on my own machines - both the host and

virtuals. Their defrag tool is far superior to windows Defrag. Their

registry cleaner is about on a par with the R-C product but mabee a

bit faster.

Here is something you should know about iobit:
https://forums.malwarebytes.org/inde...howtopic=29681

Interesting. I have Iobit installed and I was just getting ready to
uninstall it. I was first going to check to see what it is since I didn't
remember before now.

On Sun, 13 Apr 2014 17:44:27 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

"Bob_Villa" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, April 13, 2014 2:33:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:

It alone solves MOST slow computer complaints that I run across. I

use the iobit product on my own machines - both the host and

virtuals. Their defrag tool is far superior to windows Defrag. Their

registry cleaner is about on a par with the R-C product but mabee a

bit faster.

Here is something you should know about iobit:
https://forums.malwarebytes.org/inde...howtopic=29681

Interesting. I have Iobit installed and I was just getting ready to
uninstall it. I was first going to check to see what it is since I didn't
remember before now.

This is a 4 1/2 year old post. What has happened in the intervening
4.5 years??? I've only been using their product for the last 16
months or so.

On Sunday, April 13, 2014 6:34:14 PM UTC-5, wrote:

This is a 4 1/2 year old post. What has happened in the intervening

4.5 years?

Just an FYI...I was considering them, but not now! Trust them with my security and they steal intellectual material...no thanks!

On Sunday, March 30, 2014 2:41:56 PM UTC-7, Jerry wrote:
My machine is old, 12 yrs to be exact. I do believe my hard drive is

dying. Wouldn't mind keeping my monitor, but would like to increase memory,

speed, etc. And, specifically would like all my information put on the new

system. I really like Outlook Express, but have heard it is not available

anymore.



In other words, I need some words of wisdom regarding what information I

should be looking for. And what should I steer clear of?



As you can tell I really lack computer knowledge.



thanks

I work adjacent to the Helpdesk in a corporation of 1500+ people, all with at least one computer. I am also a developer, so see some of the performance differences.
My personal preference would be a laptop with Windows 7. Relatively straightforward OS with lots of support. Google is your friend for any OS questions.
For the hardware, I am on my second Lenovo (previously IBM). For build quality and components, they currently exceed anything close to their price range. I bought my first personal one when my work laptop (Lenovo) went over the bars in my backback during a cycling crash. My backpack was torn up, the laptop fired up without issues. My current superpowered work Dell would not have survived.
I am typing this on a Lenovo T420, bought used, for $400, with OS. Not a complaint anywhere.
Cheers

On Sun, 13 Apr 2014 19:26:49 -0700 (PDT), gwandsh
wrote:

On Sunday, March 30, 2014 2:41:56 PM UTC-7, Jerry wrote:
My machine is old, 12 yrs to be exact. I do believe my hard drive is

dying. Wouldn't mind keeping my monitor, but would like to increase memory,

speed, etc. And, specifically would like all my information put on the new

system. I really like Outlook Express, but have heard it is not available

anymore.



In other words, I need some words of wisdom regarding what information I

should be looking for. And what should I steer clear of?



As you can tell I really lack computer knowledge.



thanks

I work adjacent to the Helpdesk in a corporation of 1500+ people, all with at least one computer. I am also a developer, so see some of the performance differences.
My personal preference would be a laptop with Windows 7. Relatively straightforward OS with lots of support. Google is your friend for any OS questions.
For the hardware, I am on my second Lenovo (previously IBM). For build quality and components, they currently exceed anything close to their price range. I bought my first personal one when my work laptop (Lenovo) went over the bars in my backback during a cycling crash. My backpack was torn up, the laptop fired up without issues. My current superpowered work Dell would not have survived.
I am typing this on a Lenovo T420, bought used, for $400, with OS. Not a complaint anywhere.
Cheers
+1 on the Lenovo ThinkPad

On 4/13/2014 5:12 PM, Bob_Villa wrote:
On Sunday, April 13, 2014 2:33:34 PM UTC-5, wrote:

It alone solves MOST slow computer complaints that I run across. I

use the iobit product on my own machines - both the host and

virtuals. Their defrag tool is far superior to windows Defrag. Their

registry cleaner is about on a par with the R-C product but mabee a

bit faster.

Here is something you should know about iobit: https://forums.malwarebytes.org/inde...howtopic=29681


I've used some of there products before, but what is written on their
homage now is hilarious.

"New Year Special Edition - Boost Your PC 300% Faster"

300% faster? Yeah, OK.

| There are two tools I use quite extensively. One only on my own
| machines because I won't licence it on customer's machines - and one I
| have a technician copy of - a product from Registry-Cleaner.net.

Didn't we already go over this? I explained how you
can logically assess the value of Registry cleaners for
yourself. You avoided understanding what I said. As for
AV, MS updates, etc, I was asked what I do myself.
I explained what I do and why. It's worked well for me
for many years. But it's not an approach for everyone.

I don't find it a pain to re-install disk images.
I always make disk images for any machine *after* it's
all set up, with the main software installed and personal
configuration set up. That allows it to be put back to
fresh in less than an hour, with no loss of anything if
one just makes regular backups of important things like
work docs and email. Again, that's not an approach for
everyone. But for anyone who's willing to learn how to
do it, I would think it's crazy not to make disk images.
They take very little effort and can save *a lot* of work
if something unexpectedly goes wrong. (It doesn't have to
be malware. Lots of things could bring down the system
unexpectedly, including one of those MS security updates
you think are so "critical".

| I have over
| 80 systems I maintain on a regular basis. Just under half have been
| converted to Win7 from XP.
|

If you're going to manage peoples' computers then you really
should understand what your tools are doing. You said earlier
that you had no idea what settings are being removed by your
Registry cleaner. You don't care? You don't understand the
Registry? Why do you assume that the people selling the software
know what they're doing if you don't even know what the software
does? I explained how to research it for yourself, but you're not
interested. Yet you're running these tools for 80-odd people? How
would you feel if you paid an auto shop to keep your car in top
shape and they were adding "Super Duper Power Charger" to the
gas tank -- for a small fee -- but couldn't tell you exactly why?

I find this kind of thing typical among support people. It's
understandable, in a way, because it's expensive to spend
time on machines and most people don't want to pay very
much. So tech support people hit their machines with a
handful of alleged cleaners, AV and malware hunters. It's the
same kind of thing that the people at Staples or Best Buy will
do for about $70. They can make good money at it because
the clerks don't have to understand how anything works. They
just have to be trained how to run the programs.

Tech support people I know run all that stuff, then sign people
up for Carbonite or something similar, charging them $200 for
a yearly visit. If their PC dies, the tech wizards can stop by,
do a restore, and sync their files from Carbonite. That takes them
almost no time and the customers find it very convenient. It's not
really a bad approach for people who don't want to deal with their
own computer, but it means that those people are paying $200/year+
for tech support, their files are mirrored on a commercial website,
which could have legal/privacy/security ramifications at some point,
and their system is weighed down by all the security software.
Anyone who wants to take the time to manage their own
computer can do better than that.

"Mayayana" wrote in message
...
Registry? Why do you assume that the people selling the software
know what they're doing if you don't even know what the software
does? I explained how to research it for yourself, but you're not

That is way I feel about taxes. I run Turbo Tax or anoter, sometimes two
tax programs. I don't understand them, just hope for the best. Even if you
call the IRS help desk you may get several answers. Saw on the news where a
good percentage of the calls never made it through.
Sometimes I feel like just sending in a blank form signed and letting them
worry about what to do.
I sure don't have time to read the tax laws. Forgot how many books it is,
but probably could not even read it in a month or two.



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

Ralph Mowery wrote:

"Mayayana" wrote in message
...
Registry? Why do you assume that the people selling the software
know what they're doing if you don't even know what the software
does? I explained how to research it for yourself, but you're not

That is way I feel about taxes. I run Turbo Tax or anoter, sometimes two
tax programs. I don't understand them, just hope for the best. Even if you
call the IRS help desk you may get several answers. Saw on the news where a
good percentage of the calls never made it through.
Sometimes I feel like just sending in a blank form signed and letting them
worry about what to do.
I sure don't have time to read the tax laws. Forgot how many books it is,
but probably could not even read it in a month or two.



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

Hi,
That is why I delegate all matters to accountant and lawyer whom I
trust. If they screw up, I am off the hook.

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
m...
|
| "Mayayana" wrote in message
| ...
| Registry? Why do you assume that the people selling the software
| know what they're doing if you don't even know what the software
| does? I explained how to research it for yourself, but you're not
|
| That is way I feel about taxes. I run Turbo Tax or anoter, sometimes two
| tax programs. I don't understand them, just hope for the best. Even if
you
| call the IRS help desk you may get several answers.

I do my own taxes, but mine are fairly simple. I guess
it depends a lot on what you have for property, investments,
writeoffs, etc. But I do let the IRS decide if I owe a
penalty for late estimated tax payments. In the past,
when my payments have been late, the IRS seems to be
less harsh about it than my own calculations indicate
they might be.

I've never tried tax software. I assume it's just a
convenient way to figure out which deductions and
requirements apply to you.

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 14:10:13 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| There are two tools I use quite extensively. One only on my own
| machines because I won't licence it on customer's machines - and one I
| have a technician copy of - a product from Registry-Cleaner.net.

Didn't we already go over this? I explained how you
can logically assess the value of Registry cleaners for
yourself. You avoided understanding what I said. As for
AV, MS updates, etc, I was asked what I do myself.
I explained what I do and why. It's worked well for me
for many years. But it's not an approach for everyone.

I don't find it a pain to re-install disk images.
I always make disk images for any machine *after* it's
all set up, with the main software installed and personal
configuration set up. That allows it to be put back to
fresh in less than an hour, with no loss of anything if
one just makes regular backups of important things like
work docs and email. Again, that's not an approach for
everyone. But for anyone who's willing to learn how to
do it, I would think it's crazy not to make disk images.
They take very little effort and can save *a lot* of work
if something unexpectedly goes wrong. (It doesn't have to
be malware. Lots of things could bring down the system
unexpectedly, including one of those MS security updates
you think are so "critical".

For your own personal systems that is fine. Good idea, too. I have one
client that does this. HOWEVER, when I get called out to "Joe Blow"'s
to fix his slow computer it is not an option. The computer is dragging
it's ass. The customer wants it fixed.
What I do speeds the computer up. The customer is happy. I get paid,
so everbody is happy (except you, because you say it doesn't work)

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 14:56:30 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| I have over
| 80 systems I maintain on a regular basis. Just under half have been
| converted to Win7 from XP.
|

If you're going to manage peoples' computers then you really
should understand what your tools are doing. You said earlier
that you had no idea what settings are being removed by your
Registry cleaner. You don't care? You don't understand the
Registry? Why do you assume that the people selling the software
know what they're doing if you don't even know what the software
does? I explained how to research it for yourself, but you're not
interested. Yet you're running these tools for 80-odd people? How
would you feel if you paid an auto shop to keep your car in top
shape and they were adding "Super Duper Power Charger" to the
gas tank -- for a small fee -- but couldn't tell you exactly why?

Whatever it is removing is obviously not needed and is affecting the
performance in a big way. The proof is in the pudding.

I DO know not to allow it to do anything with the "file/path
reference" area if they are running Autocad (particularly with a
survey sadd-in) or any other specialized software. Sometimes on a
"plain vanilla" machine running that option DOES make a sizeable
difference.
Com and DocX issues, Shared DLLs, Uninstall entries, are some of the
items that are checked and removed. Not an issue if you set up a
machine and never change it - but who does that today?? And if you
install any apple or adobe or symantec products there WILL be crap to
get rid of.

As for the "super duper power charger" and auto mechanics, if you
believe all additives are snake oil and nothing but a rip-off, you are
talking to the wrong guy.

As an auto mechanic in a former life, there are DEFINITELY additives
out tthere, that when used properly for the right reasons, can be VERY
effective, and a mechanic who will not use them before tearing into
the vehicle for expensive repairs is not doing anyone any favors.
There are many situations where a 8-20 dollar can of chemicals can
eliminate the need for 800 to 2000 dollars worth of repairs - or even
more.
Selling the product to the customer can be the best thing the mechanic
can do for the customer in MANY cases.
In the aviation world, a can of AvBlend properly applied can save a
plane owner $8000 for a top-end overhaul, and used regularly can
extend the life of a $30,000 engine rebuild by a factor of 2 or 3.



I find this kind of thing typical among support people. It's
understandable, in a way, because it's expensive to spend
time on machines and most people don't want to pay very
much. So tech support people hit their machines with a
handful of alleged cleaners, AV and malware hunters. It's the
same kind of thing that the people at Staples or Best Buy will
do for about $70. They can make good money at it because
the clerks don't have to understand how anything works. They
just have to be trained how to run the programs.

Tech support people I know run all that stuff, then sign people
up for Carbonite or something similar, charging them $200 for
a yearly visit. If their PC dies, the tech wizards can stop by,
do a restore, and sync their files from Carbonite. That takes them
almost no time and the customers find it very convenient. It's not
really a bad approach for people who don't want to deal with their
own computer, but it means that those people are paying $200/year+
for tech support, their files are mirrored on a commercial website,
which could have legal/privacy/security ramifications at some point,
and their system is weighed down by all the security software.
Anyone who wants to take the time to manage their own
computer can do better than that.


And I, as a technician, would feel like a crook selling a home user on
something like carbonite and a $200 maintenance contract - and would
be even less inclined to recommend a commercial client allow his data
to be kept outside his premises on an open server like carbonite.

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 16:33:17 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


"Mayayana" wrote in message
...
Registry? Why do you assume that the people selling the software
know what they're doing if you don't even know what the software
does? I explained how to research it for yourself, but you're not

That is way I feel about taxes. I run Turbo Tax or anoter, sometimes two
tax programs. I don't understand them, just hope for the best. Even if you
call the IRS help desk you may get several answers. Saw on the news where a
good percentage of the calls never made it through.
Sometimes I feel like just sending in a blank form signed and letting them
worry about what to do.
I sure don't have time to read the tax laws. Forgot how many books it is,
but probably could not even read it in a month or two.



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
and 99% or more of "geeks" cannot understand a registry - muchless
normal users or technicians.

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 16:49:11 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
om...
|
| "Mayayana" wrote in message
| ...
| Registry? Why do you assume that the people selling the software
| know what they're doing if you don't even know what the software
| does? I explained how to research it for yourself, but you're not
|
| That is way I feel about taxes. I run Turbo Tax or anoter, sometimes two
| tax programs. I don't understand them, just hope for the best. Even if
you
| call the IRS help desk you may get several answers.

I do my own taxes, but mine are fairly simple. I guess
it depends a lot on what you have for property, investments,
writeoffs, etc. But I do let the IRS decide if I owe a
penalty for late estimated tax payments. In the past,
when my payments have been late, the IRS seems to be
less harsh about it than my own calculations indicate
they might be.

I've never tried tax software. I assume it's just a
convenient way to figure out which deductions and
requirements apply to you.

It is a simple way to enter all your data and do the calculations -
allowing "what-if" situations, and they print out the forms and e-file
for you.

I don't use all the wizards.

| Whatever it is removing is obviously not needed and is affecting the
| performance in a big way. The proof is in the pudding.
|
| Com and DocX issues, Shared DLLs, Uninstall entries, are some of the
| items that are checked and removed. Not an issue if you set up a
| machine and never change it - but who does that today?? And if you
| install any apple or adobe or symantec products there WILL be crap to
| get rid of.

You never did come up with actual samples of removed
settings. Were you, by any chance, reading those items from
the CleanMyPC homepage?
http://www.registry-cleaner.net/

They're all irrelevant. I explained that earlier.
Work it out for yourself. Learn what the settings
actually are and you'll see they have nothing to do
with speed or efficiency. (Also it's ActiveX, not DocX.
And COM is the same thing as ActiveX. The latter is
just a marketing term for the former.)

Here's a simplified explanation of COM entries, for
anyone who's interested:

http://www.ewall.org/tech/msi/com-registration

Basically, the idea is that installers "register" files
for use by software. Software can then use the file's
functionality by looking it up in the Registry. If the file
is not registered, the software using it will not work.
On the other hand, if the software that uses that
functionality, including the COM file itself, is removed
without unregistering the COM file -- for instance, if
you just delete a program without running its uninstaller --
*nothing will happen*. The registration will still be there,
but it does no harm.

In the unlikely event that some other software wants
to use that COM file, which is now registered but gone,
you'll get an error like, "Unable to load library". And
what will happen if you remove the outdated entry as
part of your Registry "cleaning"? Same thing. It won't
matter unless some software tries to use the COM file.
If that happens you'll get an error like, "Unable to load
library". In neither case is it possible for any of this to
affect the speed of your computer.

Likewise with the Uninstall settings. At worst, a mixup
there could do something like show a program in Add/Remove
that's already been uninstalled. That might be nice to fix,
but it doesn't happen very often, and it would have
no effect on speed.

I don't see any reason to argue about this, but I
don't want to see people get misled into wasting money
on pointless software, so I'm trying to post enough
information so that people who want to can do their own
research and reach their own conclusions.

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 20:37:46 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

| Whatever it is removing is obviously not needed and is affecting the
| performance in a big way. The proof is in the pudding.
|
| Com and DocX issues, Shared DLLs, Uninstall entries, are some of the
| items that are checked and removed. Not an issue if you set up a
| machine and never change it - but who does that today?? And if you
| install any apple or adobe or symantec products there WILL be crap to
| get rid of.

You never did come up with actual samples of removed
settings. Were you, by any chance, reading those items from
the CleanMyPC homepage?
http://www.registry-cleaner.net/

No I was not.
They're all irrelevant. I explained that earlier.
Work it out for yourself. Learn what the settings
actually are and you'll see they have nothing to do
with speed or efficiency. (Also it's ActiveX, not DocX.
And COM is the same thing as ActiveX. The latter is
just a marketing term for the former.)

Here's a simplified explanation of COM entries, for
anyone who's interested:

http://www.ewall.org/tech/msi/com-registration

Basically, the idea is that installers "register" files
for use by software. Software can then use the file's
functionality by looking it up in the Registry. If the file
is not registered, the software using it will not work.
On the other hand, if the software that uses that
functionality, including the COM file itself, is removed
without unregistering the COM file -- for instance, if
you just delete a program without running its uninstaller --
*nothing will happen*. The registration will still be there,
but it does no harm.

In the unlikely event that some other software wants
to use that COM file, which is now registered but gone,
you'll get an error like, "Unable to load library". And
what will happen if you remove the outdated entry as
part of your Registry "cleaning"? Same thing. It won't
matter unless some software tries to use the COM file.
If that happens you'll get an error like, "Unable to load
library". In neither case is it possible for any of this to
affect the speed of your computer.

Likewise with the Uninstall settings. At worst, a mixup
there could do something like show a program in Add/Remove
that's already been uninstalled. That might be nice to fix,
but it doesn't happen very often, and it would have
no effect on speed.

I don't see any reason to argue about this, but I
don't want to see people get misled into wasting money
on pointless software, so I'm trying to post enough
information so that people who want to can do their own
research and reach their own conclusions.


Look - I'm not going to argue any more. You believe what you believe.
I KNOW that when my machine slows down, I run the utility, and the
computer speeds right back up. That is ALL I NEED TO KNOW.

On Tuesday, April 15, 2014 7:37:46 PM UTC-5, Mayayana wrote:

I don't see any reason to argue about this, but I

don't want to see people get misled into wasting money

on pointless software, so I'm trying to post enough

information so that people who want to can do their own

research and reach their own conclusions.

You don't need me to agree with you...I'm just slightly smarter than the average PC user. But I have heard this for many years about "registry cleaners"...they are there for people who think they work.

On 4/15/2014 8:37 PM, Mayayana wrote:
| Whatever it is removing is obviously not needed and is affecting the
| performance in a big way. The proof is in the pudding.
|
| Com and DocX issues, Shared DLLs, Uninstall entries, are some of the
| items that are checked and removed. Not an issue if you set up a
| machine and never change it - but who does that today?? And if you
| install any apple or adobe or symantec products there WILL be crap to
| get rid of.

You never did come up with actual samples of removed
settings. Were you, by any chance, reading those items from
the CleanMyPC homepage?
http://www.registry-cleaner.net/

They're all irrelevant. I explained that earlier.
Work it out for yourself. Learn what the settings
actually are and you'll see they have nothing to do
with speed or efficiency. (Also it's ActiveX, not DocX.
And COM is the same thing as ActiveX. The latter is
just a marketing term for the former.)

Here's a simplified explanation of COM entries, for
anyone who's interested:

http://www.ewall.org/tech/msi/com-registration

Basically, the idea is that installers "register" files
for use by software. Software can then use the file's
functionality by looking it up in the Registry. If the file
is not registered, the software using it will not work.
On the other hand, if the software that uses that
functionality, including the COM file itself, is removed
without unregistering the COM file -- for instance, if
you just delete a program without running its uninstaller --
*nothing will happen*. The registration will still be there,
but it does no harm.

In the unlikely event that some other software wants
to use that COM file, which is now registered but gone,
you'll get an error like, "Unable to load library". And
what will happen if you remove the outdated entry as
part of your Registry "cleaning"? Same thing. It won't
matter unless some software tries to use the COM file.
If that happens you'll get an error like, "Unable to load
library". In neither case is it possible for any of this to
affect the speed of your computer.

Likewise with the Uninstall settings. At worst, a mixup
there could do something like show a program in Add/Remove
that's already been uninstalled. That might be nice to fix,
but it doesn't happen very often, and it would have
no effect on speed.

I don't see any reason to argue about this, but I
don't want to see people get misled into wasting money
on pointless software, so I'm trying to post enough
information so that people who want to can do their own
research and reach their own conclusions.




I'm not gonna snip your post. Will leave it for the archives.

I agree with you. Registry cleaners are of little use IMO. There is a
discussion about this right now in alt.comp.os.windows-8 and a very
advanced computer user/tester says they do more damage than good.

And there is this from "how to geek" about Ccleaner (scroll down to
Beware the Registry Cleaner).

http://www.howtogeek.com/113382/how-...9-tips-tricks/


I'm no pro, but I fix all of my family and friends computers when they
aren't running as smoothly as they should.

Usually crapware installed, BHOs, trojans, temp files, needs to be
defraged, etc (just fixed one a couple of weeks ago that had over 5GB of
temp files) and I have never run a registry cleaner.

On 4/15/2014 9:41 PM, wrote:
Look - I'm not going to argue any more. You believe what you believe.
I KNOW that when my machine slows down, I run the utility, and the
computer speeds right back up. That is ALL I NEED TO KNOW.

Maybe I missed it...what is the name of this utility?

Ron wrote:
On 4/15/2014 9:41 PM, wrote:
Look - I'm not going to argue any more. You believe what
you believe.
I KNOW that when my machine slows down, I run the
utility, and the
computer speeds right back up. That is ALL I NEED TO
KNOW.

Maybe I missed it...what is the name of this utility?

I'm not a tech and don't know what they use, but I know a
few and they all use Ccleaner and so do I

http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/deta...aner_slim.html

On 4/16/2014 1:15 AM, ChairMan wrote:
Ron wrote:
On 4/15/2014 9:41 PM, wrote:
Look - I'm not going to argue any more. You believe what
you believe.
I KNOW that when my machine slows down, I run the
utility, and the
computer speeds right back up. That is ALL I NEED TO
KNOW.

Maybe I missed it...what is the name of this utility?

I'm not a tech and don't know what they use, but I know a
few and they all use Ccleaner and so do I

http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/deta...aner_slim.html



Read my post from 4/15/2014 11:28 PM

Ron wrote:
On 4/16/2014 1:15 AM, ChairMan wrote:
Ron wrote:
On 4/15/2014 9:41 PM, wrote:
Look - I'm not going to argue any more. You believe
what
you believe.
I KNOW that when my machine slows down, I run the
utility, and the
computer speeds right back up. That is ALL I NEED TO
KNOW.

Maybe I missed it...what is the name of this utility?

I'm not a tech and don't know what they use, but I know a
few and they all use Ccleaner and so do I

http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/deta...aner_slim.html



Read my post from 4/15/2014 11:28 PM

I did.....right after I posted my reply. g
And i agree, and most of the tips I already do.
Any utility such as CCleaner should be used with caution

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 16:49:11 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
om...
|
| "Mayayana" wrote in message
| ...
| Registry? Why do you assume that the people selling the software
| know what they're doing if you don't even know what the software
| does? I explained how to research it for yourself, but you're not
|
| That is way I feel about taxes. I run Turbo Tax or anoter, sometimes two
| tax programs. I don't understand them, just hope for the best. Even if
you
| call the IRS help desk you may get several answers.

I do my own taxes, but mine are fairly simple. I guess
it depends a lot on what you have for property, investments,
writeoffs, etc. But I do let the IRS decide if I owe a
penalty for late estimated tax payments. In the past,
when my payments have been late, the IRS seems to be
less harsh about it than my own calculations indicate
they might be.

I've never tried tax software. I assume it's just a
convenient way to figure out which deductions and
requirements apply to you.


Tax software saves time.
It prompts you for possibly relevant info, so you don't forget
anything. Lends a sense of comfort.
Paperless.
You don't have a hassle getting the right forms.
No going to the post office for a stamp.
Many employers and banks now participate in providing W-2's
to an outfit that Turbotax (what I use) accesses, so you don't even
have to enter that.
It catches mistakes.
You can easily experiment with different strategies.
It saves the government money.
It costs me about 39-49 bucks.
Worth it to me.

On Tue, 15 Apr 2014 23:29:49 -0400, Ron wrote:

On 4/15/2014 9:41 PM, wrote:
Look - I'm not going to argue any more. You believe what you believe.
I KNOW that when my machine slows down, I run the utility, and the
computer speeds right back up. That is ALL I NEED TO KNOW.

Maybe I missed it...what is the name of this utility?

Clean My PC from Registry-cleaner.net (not to be confused with the
totally useless (or worse) my clean pc

Jerry wrote:
My machine is old, 12 yrs to be exact. I do believe my hard drive is
dying. Wouldn't mind keeping my monitor, but would like to increase memory,
speed, etc. And, specifically would like all my information put on the new
system. I really like Outlook Express, but have heard it is not available
anymore.

In other words, I need some words of wisdom regarding what information I
should be looking for. And what should I steer clear of?

As you can tell I really lack computer knowledge.

thanks


I've read all these postings; quite a chore. But I want to set out what
I think I have learned. For my laptops, I have external hard drives
that I use for, among other things, backups. On this particular Dell, I
have a Western Digital hard drive, and have their software set to back
up everything weekly. Alas, I think all they do is back up the data,
and because I use uncommon software (Wordperfect, Seamonkey [son of
Netscape], F-secure AV, etc.) they don't seem to know where to put the
data when I ask for a restoration. So this charming Dell, which I
actually like, with Vista, has eaten two hard drives, and when I send it
for repair, they put in a new hard drive, and reinstall Vista, and that
is it. I am supposed to reinstall my programs and data, which is a
hassle, since I don't remember all my programs, and the restoration
service doesn't seem to work well. In anticipation that my current hard
drive will die before I do, I want a way to put my current setup on a
new hard drive.

It seems to me that making a disk image (which disks, C only, or C and
D?) with disk wizard, would be a good solution. I haven't looked for
disk wizard yet, it might even be somewhere on my machine. So my
question is, is this a good solution, and if so what is the best cloning
program for the unsophisticated, and where can I get it.

" So my
question is, is this a good solution, and if so what is the best cloning
program for the unsophisticated, and where can I get it."

I use this free version: http://www.paragon-software.com/home/br-free/

| It seems to me that making a disk image (which disks, C only, or C and
| D?) with disk wizard, would be a good solution. I haven't looked for
| disk wizard yet, it might even be somewhere on my machine. So my
| question is, is this a good solution, and if so what is the best cloning
| program for the unsophisticated, and where can I get it.

There's a lot of information in the thread about that.
I use BootIt ($35). Bob_Villa posted a link to a free
program. You can research others, but you should
probably also do a bit of reading up if you're not
familiar with disk partitioning.

A disk can have primary partitions (normally up
to 4) and logical partitions. Any number of logical
partitions can be in an extended partition, which is
a kind of primary partition. Data and Linux can go on
any partition. Windows can only go on a primary
partition. (The terms really don't matter. They
could just as easily be choc, vanilla and strawberry.
You just need to know how they work.)

I usually put up to 3 primaries on a disk and then
fill the rest with logical data partitions. XP can get by
easily with 5 GB. Vista/7 will likely need at least 20 GB.
(The point being that if you do disk imaging you don't
store data on C drive where it can be lost. C drive is
the cab of your 18-wheeler. Data partitions are your
trailers. If you need to replace the engine you don't
want to lose your cargo.)

So, say for instance that you have Win7 on a 1 TB disk.
You could shrink C drive to, say, 60 GB, then install XP
on another primary partition behind C drive, then put
data partitions behind that. You can then dual boot Win7
and XP. All of that can be done with a typical disk
management program: deleting, resizing, creating partitions.
The part you need to understand is how to do that, in what
order, and why. Most programs will also let you hide one
partition from another, set the active boot partition, etc.

To keep it simple, let's just say you only want Win7
and you just want to image that.

Disk imaging is to make a compressed, single file copy
of a partition that can then be restored to any hard disk.
That's distinct from cloning, which is to copy one disk to
another. For reasons of practicality, it's best to disk image
when your OS is fresh and relatively small. If you can't
fit your image on one or two DVDs (or CDs for XP) then
it will be awkward to keep and restore your disk image.

You say you have C and D. Are they separate partitions
on one disk, or 2 separate disks? Either way, C drive is a
primary partition. Even if it fills the whole disk, it's formatted
as a partition. Disk imaging will make a copy of that *partition*.
If D drive is data you don't need to image it. Just back up
the data to CD/DVD/stick/etc.

In most cases, when you restore a disk image you'll need
at least as much empty space as the original partition took
up. That's another reason not to make your C drive
unnecessarily big.

What I do is to maintain disk images with software installed.
Then I periodically back up App Data settings like email,
address book, Firefox bookmarks, etc. (That's a whole other
topic. Programs can sometimes store data very obscurely
and you need to know where to find it.) I also keep many
data partitions, one of which is basic data that I want to
have backups of. I back that up regularly to CD. Other things,
like my graphics/photos partition, I back up less often.

As a further protection, I use two hard disks. Most of my
data exists in matching partitions on each disk. (Graphics1
and Graphics2, for instance.) I'm not using a RAID array.
Just redundant disks in case one goes suddenly.

"G. Morgan" wrote in message
...
| Jerry wrote:
|
| In other words, I need some words of wisdom regarding what information I
| should be looking for. And what should I steer clear of?
|
| Has anyone noticed the OP has only replied once in over 250 replies to
| his queries?

He actually replied twice. The second time was to
say he was going to check out cheap used PCs at
Microcenter.

That kind of thing happens a lot. I chalk it up to
inattentiveness and lack of courtesy. Many people
just don't realize that they could help their own cause
by providing information, and many people don't think
to say thanks. For all we know Jerry might have bought
a new PC last week and just couldn't be bothered to
tell us. But that's OK. The OP provides a way for
useful information to make it to people who need it --
whether he's listening or not.

"Mayayana" writes:
| It seems to me that making a disk image (which disks, C only, or C and
| D?) with disk wizard, would be a good solution. I haven't looked for
| disk wizard yet, it might even be somewhere on my machine. So my
| question is, is this a good solution, and if so what is the best cloning
| program for the unsophisticated, and where can I get it.

There's a lot of information in the thread about that.
I use BootIt ($35). Bob_Villa posted a link to a free
program. You can research others, but you should
probably also do a bit of reading up if you're not
familiar with disk partitioning.

A disk can have primary partitions (normally up
to 4) and logical partitions. Any number of logical
partitions can be in an extended partition, which is
a kind of primary partition. Data and Linux can go on
any partition. Windows can only go on a primary
partition. (The terms really don't matter. They
could just as easily be choc, vanilla and strawberry.
You just need to know how they work.)

Although with UEFI replacing BIOS booting, the legacy
partition table is pretty much history, having been
replaced by GPT (GUID partition table).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table