On Monday, March 31, 2014 7:40:14 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 14:32:59 -0700 (PDT), Bob_Villa

wrote:



Trader4ickt responded thusly:



Window Explorer is the file/folder manager, Internet Explorer is a browser! *L*



BTW, Bob, Trader is exactly correct.



Laugh about that.

Right now I can help but laugh at your logic...or I should say, your lack of ANY!

On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 19:17:14 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 19:18:27 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

trader_4 wrote:

If the MB can handle the extra memory, there isn't an OS in the last
couple decades that won't make use of it.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778%28v=vs.85%29.aspx


Link broke.

Unless it is a 32bit x86 version.

Are you saying a RAM drive will not work - loaded on boot?
You can use it as a ram drive on some computers - but not as system
ram. Using the ram drive for VRam has advantages. It is no longer a
documented/supported feature in XP, but it can be done - see:
http://www.picobay.com/projects/2006...-for-free.html

trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, March 30, 2014 6:41:05 PM UTC-4, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
On 03/30/14 05:41 pm, Jerry wrote:

My machine is old, 12 yrs to be exact. I do believe my hard drive is

dying. Wouldn't mind keeping my monitor, but would like to increase memory,

speed, etc. And, specifically would like all my information put on the new

system. I really like Outlook Express, but have heard it is not available

anymore.



In other words, I need some words of wisdom regarding what information I

should be looking for. And what should I steer clear of?



As you can tell I really lack computer knowledge.



Trying to upgrade a 12-yr-old computer is not going to be practical. The

easiest thing you might be able to upgrade at all is the amount of

memory, but memory that fits a computer that old is likely to be very

expensive compared to newer-style memory. You might be able to install a

larger hard disk and transfer everything from the old one, but I

probably wouldn't bother if it were my computer.



And what operating system is installed. If it's Windows XP, that will be

officially "orphaned" next month: no more updates or bug fixes.



I just had a friend complaining to me that he was trying to restore
an XP system he has and he said he tried to download service pack 3
for XP and it's no longer available. Not sure that's true, but that's
what he said. If so, that's a real bitch. I can understand not
supporting it anymore, but you would think MSFT would still make
available the existing last updates for it.

I just did it and put it on cd the other day.

Greg

trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, March 30, 2014 6:19:57 PM UTC-4, Bob_Villa wrote:
On Sunday, March 30, 2014 4:41:56 PM UTC-5, Jerry wrote:

My machine is old, 12 yrs to be exact. I do believe my hard drive is



dying. Wouldn't mind keeping my monitor, but would like to increase memory,



speed, etc. And, specifically would like all my information put on the new



system. I really like Outlook Express, but have heard it is not available



anymore.







In other words, I need some words of wisdom regarding what information I



should be looking for. And what should I steer clear of?







As you can tell I really lack computer knowledge.







thanks



If you're forced into Windows 8 install "Classic Shell", stay away from
HP/Compaq because of all the crapware. I have a free PC that I installed
Windows 7 (Dell 8400 3Ghz,3Gb,320GbHDD, basically ancient) and it runs
very well! And there's always Craigslist!

I have two HP systems, two to three years old and have no "crapware"
problems, issues, etc with either of them. They do come with some utilities,
and Norton, but nothing that's intrusive, full of ads, or anything like that.
I'm very happy with them, liked the HP website for configuration and would
buy from them again.

I bought a HP laptop with W7 about three years ago. I'm mostly afraid to
use it. HP has had so many bios updates and other updates. Just last week
it updated, and came up with a new desktop scheme, it was ok after I
rebooted. Last year I figured out a comcast virus software was screwing up
every shutdown, requiring windows fix each time. When I turn this machine
on, might as well get a cup of coffee before tryin to use it. I have not
updated windows since last year. At least I can use it some.

Greg

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 13:38:36 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 3/31/2014 8:46 AM, trader_4 wrote:
I just had a friend complaining to me that he was trying to restore
an XP system he has and he said he tried to download service pack 3
for XP and it's no longer available. Not sure that's true, but that's
what he said. If so, that's a real bitch. I can understand not
supporting it anymore, but you would think MSFT would still make
available the existing last updates for it.

I had a rough time trying to find SP3, it's
"for network professionals". From experience,
don't go to the web for sp3, you'll get some
thing that kills your computer. DAMHIKT.
It is still available - I downloaded and installed it last week to
resurrect a little Toshibba Portege R200.

You DO need to make sure you are only downloading SP3 and not 1001
other programs the download sites try to stuff in on you.

You also have to make sure SP2 is installed.

Greg

writes:
On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 19:57:54 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

writes:
On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 09:45:51 -0400, "Mayayana"

Both the Win7 dual CPU box and my new XP box, with
"mediocre" AMD A6 2-core, respond instantly. I keep them
clean. If you find you need a high-power machine for
speed to do things less intensive than video editing then
you probably have a lot of crap weighing down the system...
And you've probably been reading too many mainstream
media articles written by tech journalists who depend on
hardware and software companies for ad dollars. The world
of tech survives on a dizzying pace of forced obsolescence,
so if you go by what the media tells you you'll end up
replacing gadgets as fast as you buy them.

Computers of that age have another common failure mode that slows them
to a crawl - leaky caps.

Can you clarify how a leaky cap will "slow them to a crawl"?

If the PLL controlling the clock signal doesn't lock at the
target frequency, the processor will never leave reset. I suppose
that qualifies as "slow", for some value of "slow".
I'm not a computer engineer, but I have experienced computers slowing

In 40 years of computer engineering, I've not experienced this. I've
seen caps blow up (and blow right out the side of the mainframe). I've
seen bad caps let the magic smoke out. I've seen dead caps prevent a
system from booting.

I've never seen, nor heard of a cap causing a PC to slow down. Not
that I'm discounting your experience, I'm just not sure that you've
correctly attributed the problem to the capacitors.

to a crawl with bad caps, that came right back to life when I replaced
the caps. It's not just the processor clock - it's the IO from the
hard drive, the refresh rate on the RAM, and the output to the video
that can all slow down. The processor misses clock cycles if the
voltage goes off spec too, from what I've been told.

You've been told incorrectly. Once you've exceeded the tested
margins for the voltage or frequency, system operation is
unpredictable. That said, most modern processors use DVFS (Dynamic
Voltage and Frequency scaling) to dyamically reduce power
consumption by varying both within margins.


Some bad caps will also make the computer not boot. Or make the
computer crash when it gets warm.


The former, true, the latter, not so much (it's other components
that can't stand the heat).

writes:
On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 19:05:48 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 23:30:48 -0400, "Mayayana"
wrote:



-- | Sometimes the smart thing to do in the OP's case is to get a win7
| machine that supports virtualization and put on a virtual XP - so he
| can still use his favourite programs like outlook express.
|

He probably has OEM XP. Putting it on a Win7 box
would require buying a new OEM CD, for probably
about $100 if he could find it. There's no reason he
can't keep the old machine running. And it doesn't
sound like he's the sort of person to be setting up
VMs.

The new or off-lease computer would come with the OS installed, and
installing virtual XP is litterally a "piece of cake".

| Or buy an off-lease computer with WinXP Pro that is only less than 5
| years old with DDR3 ram and SATA hard drive instead of his ancient
| ide HD and DDR2 ram.

Even in 2002 the machine he has would have probably
had about a 1 Ghz CPU and maybe 500 MB RAM. That's
more than enough for most uses. Nothing is faster than
instant, no matter how new it is. *A lot* of money is
wasted on loads of RAM that never gets used. If he wants
to do a lot of editing of 30 MB images then he probably
needs a new box. For most other things, the cheapest PCs
have been more than adequate for many years now. (That's
a nice aspect of XP. Microsoft went to great lengths to
build bloat into Vista/7 so that their hardware partners
could sell more stock. Win8 needs 1 GB RAM just to sit there.
But XP is zippy on old hardware, and does just fine with 256
MB RAM for most uses.)

I've been in the PC business now for 25 years (well, will be 25
years in August). 256 is inadequate to run anything of consequence on
XP. 512 will work, but 1024 really wakes it up, particularly if
running 2 programs at a time. Takes all the load off the hard drive
(swap file/virtual ram issues). With 256 ram, you WILL wear out the
hard drive.

Huh?
Wonder what kinda stuffs you have been working for 25 years?
When I started out I was working on vacuum tube and transistor
driven systems. Today's apps size is often bigger than 256, LOL! One
example, look at the Photo shop Pro..... Wonder what people do with
computers these days. Just doing word processing? emailing? that's it?
Don't know what you are getting at or what your problem is.
I just said 256 is inadequate - 512 is bare minimum, and 1024 wakes it
up. Where's your beef??? I also said using too little ram and
multitasking is hard on the hard drive due to page filing (virtual
ram).. That is true. What's your beef?

I think he was twitting you about forgetting the unit multipler.

256? 256k? 256M? 256G? 256T? Can't do much in 256 bytes.

writes:
On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 19:18:27 -0600, rbowman
wrote:

trader_4 wrote:

If the MB can handle the extra memory, there isn't an OS in the last
couple decades that won't make use of it.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-
us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778%28v=vs.85%29.aspx

Unless it is a 32bit x86 version.
Yup - with 32 bit OS, anything over 4Gb is a total waste.

Windows server will support up to 36GB using PAE on x86_32. Any
one task/process is still limited to 4GB however.

On Monday, March 31, 2014 11:35:19 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 19:17:14 -0700, Oren wrote:



On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 19:18:27 -0600, rbowman

wrote:



trader_4 wrote:



If the MB can handle the extra memory, there isn't an OS in the last

couple decades that won't make use of it.



http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-

us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778%28v=vs.85%29.aspx





Link broke.



Unless it is a 32bit x86 version.



Are you saying a RAM drive will not work - loaded on boot?

You can use it as a ram drive on some computers - but not as system

ram. Using the ram drive for VRam has advantages. It is no longer a

documented/supported feature in XP, but it can be done - see:

http://www.picobay.com/projects/2006...-for-free.html


I agree with Clare and Rbowman. A 32 bit OS can only use 4GB. This
thread has wandered all over and there was at least one poster advocating
that 512MB was enough. The OP didn't state how much memory he had. So
I was thinking in the context if he only has say 1GB, then adding more
memory and it will be used. But if it's already at 4GB, I agree that
adding more isn't going to help. A 12 year old MB may not have the
ability to have more than 4GB anyway.

On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 1:38:22 AM UTC-4, Gz wrote:
trader_4 wrote:

On Sunday, March 30, 2014 6:41:05 PM UTC-4, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

On 03/30/14 05:41 pm, Jerry wrote:



My machine is old, 12 yrs to be exact. I do believe my hard drive is



dying. Wouldn't mind keeping my monitor, but would like to increase memory,



speed, etc. And, specifically would like all my information put on the new



system. I really like Outlook Express, but have heard it is not available



anymore.







In other words, I need some words of wisdom regarding what information I



should be looking for. And what should I steer clear of?







As you can tell I really lack computer knowledge.







Trying to upgrade a 12-yr-old computer is not going to be practical. The



easiest thing you might be able to upgrade at all is the amount of



memory, but memory that fits a computer that old is likely to be very



expensive compared to newer-style memory. You might be able to install a



larger hard disk and transfer everything from the old one, but I



probably wouldn't bother if it were my computer.







And what operating system is installed. If it's Windows XP, that will be



officially "orphaned" next month: no more updates or bug fixes.







I just had a friend complaining to me that he was trying to restore

an XP system he has and he said he tried to download service pack 3

for XP and it's no longer available. Not sure that's true, but that's

what he said. If so, that's a real bitch. I can understand not

supporting it anymore, but you would think MSFT would still make

available the existing last updates for it.



I just did it and put it on cd the other day.



Greg

Thanks for the info guys. I'll pass that along to my friend. IDK
what he was looking at that lead him to believe it was no longer
available from MSFT. It didn't sound quite right to me either, because
usually they just discontinue updates, fixes, support, etc but leave
whatever there is existing available for a long time.

On Sunday, March 30, 2014 4:41:56 PM UTC-5, Jerry wrote:
My machine is old, 12 yrs to be exact. I do believe my hard drive is

dying. Wouldn't mind keeping my monitor, but would like to increase memory,

speed, etc. And, specifically would like all my information put on the new

system. I really like Outlook Express, but have heard it is not available

anymore.



In other words, I need some words of wisdom regarding what information I

should be looking for. And what should I steer clear of?



As you can tell I really lack computer knowledge.



thanks

Max for your system RAM is probably 2GB total(considering availability). At $20 each ($40+shp) for tested/used sticks.
http://www.oempcworld.com/Merchant2/...&AttributeCode[1]=Computer&AttributeValue[1]=Dimension+4550+%28DDR-400MHz%29

writes:

On Tue, 01 Apr 2014 14:05:39 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

I think he was twitting you about forgetting the unit multipler.

256? 256k? 256M? 256G? 256T? Can't do much in 256 bytes.

Ah those days when 8 K of core (RAM for you kids) would run a big
company and the 7 bit CPU cycle was 11.5 uS (IBM 1401)
256 characters was plenty for a little program. (no "bytes" yet)
I do sort of miss it.

Hmm, 256? I'm guessing you're not counting card input, print output.
That's at least 120 for print, 80 for the card, leaving only 56 bytes
for code. The 1401 was great for compact code though.

--
Dan Espen

On Tue, 01 Apr 2014 10:18:14 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 01 Apr 2014 14:05:39 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

I think he was twitting you about forgetting the unit multipler.

256? 256k? 256M? 256G? 256T? Can't do much in 256 bytes.

Ah those days when 8 K of core (RAM for you kids) would run a big
company and the 7 bit CPU cycle was 11.5 uS (IBM 1401)
256 characters was plenty for a little program. (no "bytes" yet)
I do sort of miss it.

I know this is straying from the topic, but your core comments brought
back some memories. I have a core board here somewhere that I bring
out every now and then to show people. I think it holds a whopping
4096 bits. (64 x 64 It looks like a window screen with small magnetic
donuts at each intersection - you can determine the size by counting
the bits). And, your 11.5 us cycle time equates to a 85 kHz processor
- not megahertz - not gigahertz - but kilohertz. Those were fun
times. You had to write what any modern programmer would call
terrible unsupportable code to get it to fit in the available memory
and run fast enough. Things like changing the program on the fly so
the next time an instruction executed, it would do something else.

The Daring Dufas wrote in news:lhag8s
:

On 3/30/2014 5:54 PM, philo wrote:
On 03/30/2014 05:41 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
On 03/30/14 05:41 pm, Jerry wrote:
My machine is old, 12 yrs to be exact. I do believe my hard
drive is dying. Wouldn't mind keeping my monitor, but would like
to increase memory, speed, etc. And, specifically would like all
my information put on the new system. I really like Outlook
Express, but have heard it is not available anymore.

In other words, I need some words of wisdom regarding what
information I should be looking for. And what should I steer
clear of?

As you can tell I really lack computer knowledge.

Trying to upgrade a 12-yr-old computer is not going to be
practical. The easiest thing you might be able to upgrade at all is
the amount of memory, but memory that fits a computer that old is
likely to be very expensive compared to newer-style memory.

snip

I build and repair computers.
A friend of mine wanted me to install 8 gigs of RAM in his older
machine. The motherboard did support it but it was DDR2.
8 gigs of RAM (good new) is over $200
I ordered a whole new mobo. CPU and 8 gigs of DDR3 for just under $200
A much better machine for a little less money...a no brainer!

That's because you're smarter than the average bear. ^_^

TDD

Huh?

--
Jax

writes:

On Tue, 01 Apr 2014 10:41:15 -0400, (Dan.Espen)
wrote:

writes:

On Tue, 01 Apr 2014 14:05:39 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

I think he was twitting you about forgetting the unit multipler.

256? 256k? 256M? 256G? 256T? Can't do much in 256 bytes.

Ah those days when 8 K of core (RAM for you kids) would run a big
company and the 7 bit CPU cycle was 11.5 uS (IBM 1401)
256 characters was plenty for a little program. (no "bytes" yet)
I do sort of miss it.

Hmm, 256? I'm guessing you're not counting card input, print output.
That's at least 120 for print, 80 for the card, leaving only 56 bytes
for code. The 1401 was great for compact code though.

I was really just talking about the program code. If you fire off a
"2" command, whatever is in 201-332 is going to end up on the paper.
so you would need more than 256 total memory unless you can get it in
44 characters. You can use those dedicated spots as your operand areas
tho. Read a card, do some math on what is in the card read area and
output it to the print area. Easy in 44 bytes ;-)

Now if we could just get rid of that pesky 101-180 punch area.

I recall putting code there more than once.

I remember the unfriendly look on the IBM salesman's face when I
pointed out that our 8K 1440 would have to be replaced with a S/360
with at least 64K. 32K wasn't going to cut it.

--
Dan Espen

On Tue, 01 Apr 2014 11:26:42 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 01 Apr 2014 10:46:58 -0400, Pat wrote:

On Tue, 01 Apr 2014 10:18:14 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 01 Apr 2014 14:05:39 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

I think he was twitting you about forgetting the unit multipler.

256? 256k? 256M? 256G? 256T? Can't do much in 256 bytes.

Ah those days when 8 K of core (RAM for you kids) would run a big
company and the 7 bit CPU cycle was 11.5 uS (IBM 1401)
256 characters was plenty for a little program. (no "bytes" yet)
I do sort of miss it.

And, your 11.5 us cycle time equates to a 85 kHz processor
- not megahertz - not gigahertz - but kilohertz. Those were fun
times.

Do you remember those computer programs that would play a song on an
AM radio you put on top of the CPU frame.

They did not really have FCC certification in those days and it would
punch through the detector on an AM radio.
I never tried that, but I do remember playing the marine hymm on an
attached 1403 printer. Back to terrible programming techniques used
to save memory, we used ascii but needed to interface with EBCDIC IBM
mainframes. So, we had to use up a valuable 256 bytes for a
translation table. Of course, not all those characters were actually
used, so we put small subroutines in the unused parts of the table.
For years afterwards, we had to maintain that table with its goofy
values for backward compatibility.

On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 21:09:45 -0400, "Jerry"
wrote:

Snipped:

http://belarc.com/free_download.html

Hi Oren,

Here's some information. I did have 53 updates to download and install!
Still 3 to go. Thank you


Jerry,

A few thoughts.

Security Updates
3 missing

Update them before April 8th

29.97 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
5.88 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space

You likely have a drive full of trash. A link is below to CCleaner.
(Free) It will find all the trash and clean the drive. Clean the
Registry, on some other things.

IC35L030AVV207-0 [Hard drive] (30.00 GB) -- drive 0, s/n VNVA02G1G0SRSH,
rev V21OA63A, SMART Status: Healthy 768 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory

Slot 'A0' has 256 MB
Slot 'A1' has 512 MB

You have mixed RAM in the slots. I've done this before but I don't
recommend it. Best to have a matching set of the same size, speed,
etc. Having 1GB would help.

Local Drive Volumes

c: (NTFS on drive 0) 29.97 GB 5.88 GB free


You drives are IDE.

CCleaner:

"CCleaner is a freeware system optimization, privacy and cleaning
tool. It removes unused files from your system allowing Windows to run
faster and freeing up valuable hard disk space. It also cleans traces
of your online activities such as your Internet history. Additionally
it contains a fully featured registry cleaner."

http://download.cnet.com/CCleaner/#ixzz2xeWtscqb

wrote:
On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 19:57:54 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

writes:
On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 09:45:51 -0400, "Mayayana"

Both the Win7 dual CPU box and my new XP box, with
"mediocre" AMD A6 2-core, respond instantly. I keep them
clean. If you find you need a high-power machine for
speed to do things less intensive than video editing then
you probably have a lot of crap weighing down the system...
And you've probably been reading too many mainstream
media articles written by tech journalists who depend on
hardware and software companies for ad dollars. The world
of tech survives on a dizzying pace of forced obsolescence,
so if you go by what the media tells you you'll end up
replacing gadgets as fast as you buy them.

Computers of that age have another common failure mode that slows them
to a crawl - leaky caps.

Can you clarify how a leaky cap will "slow them to a crawl"?

If the PLL controlling the clock signal doesn't lock at the
target frequency, the processor will never leave reset. I suppose
that qualifies as "slow", for some value of "slow".
I'm not a computer engineer, but I have experienced computers slowing
to a crawl with bad caps, that came right back to life when I replaced
the caps. It's not just the processor clock - it's the IO from the
hard drive, the refresh rate on the RAM, and the output to the video
that can all slow down. The processor misses clock cycles if the
voltage goes off spec too, from what I've been told.

Some bad caps will also make the computer not boot. Or make the
computer crash when it gets warm.

Hi,
It all depends which part of the logic the cap is located. Until
you see some thing caused by any component going bad you wouldn't
believe things happening in the field(real world). Bad cap even scres up
critical rise and fall time of a clock pulse. My job as a Sr. systems
support specialist was looking at this sort of things with multi channel
logic analyzer set up to catch things when it happens. Some things
glitch once in a blue moon but we know it is happening and we have to
catch it to generate engineering mod. with design engineers.

Some problems originates from poor quality control. Bad batch of chips
or parts will incur wasted expenses. Purchasing agent at logistics has
big responsibility in this regard. Timing I was dealing with was nano
seconds or fraction of it. Ordinary O'scope is unable to display it.
Storage scope captured signals had to be displayed in sort of scaled
slow motion to analyze it. x86 PC was used as a diagnostic tool to
trouble-shoot large scale multi layer logic board down to component
level. Any one heard of checking logic circuits by serial bit shifting
method?

If you're really going to try to keep the old computer
you'd be better off if you do a couple of things. first,
you can get the manuals for it he

https://www.dell.com/support/home/us...0/manuals?c=us

Most older computers have a hidden partition from
which the original system can be re-installed. According
to your manual, your model doesn't have that, but came
with an XP CD instead.

If you still have the CD and still have your software CDs
you should copy all of the patches, SP3, etc. to CDs or
memory sticks, then re-install XP with the Dell CD. That
will give you a fresh setup that should run as well as the
day you got it.

After that, re-install your patches and software.

But a much better approach would be to first try to find
someone who can help you install a new hard disk, *then*
run the Dell XP CD on that. (It's not hard to install, but
there are some details to know about, and it might take
some work to find the right kind of disk. (Known as EIDE
or PATA.)

A fresh install will make everything run better. You
don't need more memory or anything else, unless you're
doing something like photo editing on very big digital
photos. If you want more RAM you can always add
it later, but the best thing is to re-install XP.

You're running on borrowed time with a 12-year-old
hard disk. It could go at any time. You *might* get
another 3-4 years out of the computer, with good
functionality, if you re-install *and* put in a new
hard disk. Otherwise you're probably better off not
wasting any more time or money on it.

On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 1:00:21 PM UTC-4, Tony Hwang wrote:
wrote:

On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 19:57:54 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)

wrote:



writes:

On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 09:45:51 -0400, "Mayayana"



Both the Win7 dual CPU box and my new XP box, with

"mediocre" AMD A6 2-core, respond instantly. I keep them

clean. If you find you need a high-power machine for

speed to do things less intensive than video editing then

you probably have a lot of crap weighing down the system...

And you've probably been reading too many mainstream

media articles written by tech journalists who depend on

hardware and software companies for ad dollars. The world

of tech survives on a dizzying pace of forced obsolescence,

so if you go by what the media tells you you'll end up

replacing gadgets as fast as you buy them.



Computers of that age have another common failure mode that slows them

to a crawl - leaky caps.



Can you clarify how a leaky cap will "slow them to a crawl"?



If the PLL controlling the clock signal doesn't lock at the

target frequency, the processor will never leave reset. I suppose

that qualifies as "slow", for some value of "slow".

I'm not a computer engineer, but I have experienced computers slowing

to a crawl with bad caps, that came right back to life when I replaced

the caps. It's not just the processor clock - it's the IO from the

hard drive, the refresh rate on the RAM, and the output to the video

that can all slow down. The processor misses clock cycles if the

voltage goes off spec too, from what I've been told.



Some bad caps will also make the computer not boot. Or make the

computer crash when it gets warm.



Hi,

It all depends which part of the logic the cap is located. Until

you see some thing caused by any component going bad you wouldn't

believe things happening in the field(real world). Bad cap even scres up

critical rise and fall time of a clock pulse. My job as a Sr. systems

support specialist was looking at this sort of things with multi channel

logic analyzer set up to catch things when it happens. Some things

glitch once in a blue moon but we know it is happening and we have to

catch it to generate engineering mod. with design engineers.



I agree with the above analysis. But we're talking about a failing leaky
electrolytic cap causing the system speed to slow down. AFAIK, the
uses for electrolytic caps in a PC are either in the power supply or on
the MB, I/O boards, etc where power enters the board to serve as a
source to smooth voltage variations, ie supply current to meet transient
switching needs. At least for anything to do with logic. They would
also be used on say an audio or video card for the analog section.
But in the case of the digital logic portion, I can see how a bad cap
could easily make the system lock up, give a blue screen of death, etc.
But like others here, I'm having a hard time understanding a mechanism
whereby it just slows it down. I suppose maybe a failing cap on
some I/O board or something could cause that to behave erratically,
causing the same interrupt signal being tripped constantly, which the
CPU then has to respond to. That might explain it I guess.

On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 12:23:57 PM UTC-5, trader_4 wrote:

I agree with the above analysis. But we're talking about a failing leaky

electrolytic cap causing the system speed to slow down. AFAIK, the

uses for electrolytic caps in a PC are either in the power supply or on

the MB, I/O boards, etc where power enters the board to serve as a

source to smooth voltage variations, ie supply current to meet transient

switching needs. At least for anything to do with logic. They would

also be used on say an audio or video card for the analog section.

But in the case of the digital logic portion, I can see how a bad cap

could easily make the system lock up, give a blue screen of death, etc.

But like others here, I'm having a hard time understanding a mechanism

whereby it just slows it down. I suppose maybe a failing cap on

some I/O board or something could cause that to behave erratically,

causing the same interrupt signal being tripped constantly, which the

CPU then has to respond to. That might explain it I guess.

It sounds like you are straining yourself...where your muscles are weak! *L*

"Jerry" wrote in message
...

My machine is old, 12 yrs to be exact. I do believe my hard drive is
dying. Wouldn't mind keeping my monitor, but would like to increase
memory, speed, etc. And, specifically would like all my information put
on the new system. I really like Outlook Express, but have heard it is not
available anymore.
(Belarc description of the system posted elsewhere.)

Your cheapest solution is a reconditioned obsolete office PC
(e.g. Lenovo/IBM M52) for $50 to $100 (without monitor.) These
usually come with Windows XP Professional preinstalled, 1 or 2
Mb RAM and a hard drive of 40 to 80 Gb. You can add another
500 Gb hard drive for another $50 which will copy over all your old drive
until you decide what to do with it, and increasing RAM to 4 Gb
will improve operating speed. (Newer drives connect SATA
rather than PATA. The DIM 2350 lacks SATA connections but
the M52 has both types.)

If WinXP suits your needs and hardware, there is no need to
buy a newer Operating System until future software or hardware
obliges you to. Standard antivirus protection (e.g. Malwarebytes)
will keep you safe even after MS support for WinXP ends.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Tony Hwang writes:

Some problems originates from poor quality control. Bad batch of chips
or parts will incur wasted expenses. Purchasing agent at logistics has
big responsibility in this regard. Timing I was dealing with was nano
seconds or fraction of it. Ordinary O'scope is unable to display it.
Storage scope captured signals had to be displayed in sort of scaled
slow motion to analyze it. x86 PC was used as a diagnostic tool to
trouble-shoot large scale multi layer logic board down to component
level. Any one heard of checking logic circuits by serial bit shifting
method?

scan-chains are built into most modern ASIC's (including processors).

Also known as boundary-scan shift-chains.

Typically used at the FAB when testing chips.

writes:

On Tue, 01 Apr 2014 11:53:46 -0400, (Dan.Espen)
wrote:

writes:


Hmm, 256? I'm guessing you're not counting card input, print output.
That's at least 120 for print, 80 for the card, leaving only 56 bytes
for code. The 1401 was great for compact code though.

I was really just talking about the program code. If you fire off a
"2" command, whatever is in 201-332 is going to end up on the paper.
so you would need more than 256 total memory unless you can get it in
44 characters. You can use those dedicated spots as your operand areas
tho. Read a card, do some math on what is in the card read area and
output it to the print area. Easy in 44 bytes ;-)

Now if we could just get rid of that pesky 101-180 punch area.

I recall putting code there more than once.

I remember the unfriendly look on the IBM salesman's face when I
pointed out that our 8K 1440 would have to be replaced with a S/360
with at least 64K. 32K wasn't going to cut it.

COBOL huh?
We had some assembler shops that were running OK in 32k.

Yep.

With Assembler, you're still looking at a huge increase over equivalent
Autocoder. You might get by with 32K vs. an original 8K but it's not
going to be easy.

Our 1401 Disk I/O routine was 500 bytes.

--
Dan Espen

trader_4 wrote:
On Tuesday, April 1, 2014 1:00:21 PM UTC-4, Tony Hwang wrote:
wrote:

On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 19:57:54 GMT, (Scott Lurndal)

wrote:



writes:

On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 09:45:51 -0400, "Mayayana"



Both the Win7 dual CPU box and my new XP box, with

"mediocre" AMD A6 2-core, respond instantly. I keep them

clean. If you find you need a high-power machine for

speed to do things less intensive than video editing then

you probably have a lot of crap weighing down the system...

And you've probably been reading too many mainstream

media articles written by tech journalists who depend on

hardware and software companies for ad dollars. The world

of tech survives on a dizzying pace of forced obsolescence,

so if you go by what the media tells you you'll end up

replacing gadgets as fast as you buy them.



Computers of that age have another common failure mode that slows them

to a crawl - leaky caps.



Can you clarify how a leaky cap will "slow them to a crawl"?



If the PLL controlling the clock signal doesn't lock at the

target frequency, the processor will never leave reset. I suppose

that qualifies as "slow", for some value of "slow".

I'm not a computer engineer, but I have experienced computers slowing

to a crawl with bad caps, that came right back to life when I replaced

the caps. It's not just the processor clock - it's the IO from the

hard drive, the refresh rate on the RAM, and the output to the video

that can all slow down. The processor misses clock cycles if the

voltage goes off spec too, from what I've been told.



Some bad caps will also make the computer not boot. Or make the

computer crash when it gets warm.



Hi,

It all depends which part of the logic the cap is located. Until

you see some thing caused by any component going bad you wouldn't

believe things happening in the field(real world). Bad cap even scres up

critical rise and fall time of a clock pulse. My job as a Sr. systems

support specialist was looking at this sort of things with multi channel

logic analyzer set up to catch things when it happens. Some things

glitch once in a blue moon but we know it is happening and we have to

catch it to generate engineering mod. with design engineers.



I agree with the above analysis. But we're talking about a failing leaky
electrolytic cap causing the system speed to slow down. AFAIK, the
uses for electrolytic caps in a PC are either in the power supply or on
the MB, I/O boards, etc where power enters the board to serve as a
source to smooth voltage variations, ie supply current to meet transient
switching needs. At least for anything to do with logic. They would
also be used on say an audio or video card for the analog section.
But in the case of the digital logic portion, I can see how a bad cap
could easily make the system lock up, give a blue screen of death, etc.
But like others here, I'm having a hard time understanding a mechanism
whereby it just slows it down. I suppose maybe a failing cap on
some I/O board or something could cause that to behave erratically,
causing the same interrupt signal being tripped constantly, which the
CPU then has to respond to. That might explain it I guess.




Hi,
Slowing things down can mean increased error rate which require retries.
If cap is leaky(not total failure yet), it can sag voltage rail
potential. You're talking in terms of PC in general? Like BSOD? There
was such a logic board with CML logic which used to draw couple hundred
Watts of power, in this case little leaky cap is not detrimental for
system failure but it can cause all kinda funnies. In a situation like
this years of actual field experience combined with superior basic
knowledge is the only way to tacckle it. Engineers
with green horns don't even have a faintest clue encountering this kinda
issues when customer(big corporations, government, military, etc.) is
breathing down on his back asking when system will be up.
Literally I saw a young kid breaking down in tears in total loss.
Remembering I was once like that I always tried to be nice to them
giving every thing to their credit. But there were types who tried to
live their lives only with BIG mouth. I hated those kind. Usually big
liars to cover their a**. This type is the worst one to bail out.
Because of those stupid lies. I am glad I am retired now. I have a 100%
track record. I never failed to solve a problem in the field(all over
the world) I encountered for almost 40 years.

"Bob_Villa" wrote in message
...

Max for your system RAM is probably 2GB total(considering availability).

No: max. RAM for the Dell Dimension 2350 is 1 Gb (insufficient for
Win8 as recommended by BV March 30.)

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 17:41:56 -0400, "Jerry" wrote:

My machine is old, 12 yrs to be exact. I do believe my hard drive is
dying. Wouldn't mind keeping my monitor, but would like to increase memory,
speed, etc. And, specifically would like all my information put on the new
system. I really like Outlook Express, but have heard it is not available
anymore.

In other words, I need some words of wisdom regarding what information I
should be looking for. And what should I steer clear of?

As you can tell I really lack computer knowledge.

thanks


Buy one of those plug in external USB hard drives, and back up all your
data . Then you can either buy a new hard drive for your existing
computer, or another computer. Once the operating system is installed
on the new HD or computer, you can copy your data back. However, your
programs will need to be re-installed. Do this soon, if your HD is
failing. Once it fails, you'll lose everything. You can buy those USB
drives online, at computer stores, or even Walmart. They are not that
costly.

How do you know your HD is failing anyhow?

Outlook Express has always sucked, but that's just my opinion.
Thunderbird is free and works well for email.

Yea, you can keep your monitor as well as printer, keyboard, mouse etc.
But if you buy a NEW computer, it will come with Windows 8. Your 12
year old computer is probably XP. Prepare to relearn how to use your
computer if you get Windows 8, and soem of your programs may not be
compatible. If you want to save money and time, just buy a new HD for
under $50. The computer I'm using right now, is 14 years old, runs
Windows 98 and still works fine. It all depends on what you want and
need. I also use XPon other computers, but I would not want Windows 8.
I have no need for all the bloat they keep adding to the newer Windows.

wrote in message
...
Buy one of those plug in external USB hard drives, and back up all your
data . Then you can either buy a new hard drive for your existing
computer, or another computer. Once the operating system is installed
on the new HD or computer, you can copy your data back. However, your
programs will need to be re-installed. Do this soon, if your HD is
failing. Once it fails, you'll lose everything. You can buy those USB
drives online, at computer stores, or even Walmart. They are not that
costly.

How do you know your HD is failing anyhow?

Outlook Express has always sucked, but that's just my opinion.
Thunderbird is free and works well for email.

Yea, you can keep your monitor as well as printer, keyboard, mouse etc.

Depending on how much data is on the computer, one of the Thumb USB drives
may also work for less money.

I would not bet that the old keyboard and mouse can be used with a much
newer computer. More of the newer ones come with USB ports and his is
probably old enough to use the round connectors.

I just got in a computer BOX from ebay from $ 90 shipped . It has Win XP
Pro installed plus the COA on the box,a DVD RW 160 GB hard drive, 3 GB speed
and 1 GB of memory. Put in an order for 2 more DDR2 memory for about $ 12.
Had to go to the store to get a keyboard and mouse as the only spare ones I
had at home were the round plugs and that one needed the USB. I think that
computer was made in 2006 from the Dell site info.

I still like Outlook Express for the email I do.



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

On 3/31/2014 10:40 PM, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 08:27:24 -0400, Frank
wrote:

Spend more time on my wife's computer problems than I do mine.

Why am I not surprised?

I tell my wife a computer will only do what you tell it too. G


I would not tell my wife this, but when we let them vote and wear shoes,
we opened Pandora's box.

On 3/30/2014 9:01 PM, Robert Green wrote:
"DerbyDad03" wrote in message

stuff snipped

Since I doubt you would, I have to wonder why you would ask a computer
related question here.

Smellest thou a rat? Three posts from Jerry, all of them in one week, two
of them way OT - recall the "are two 250mg pills = to a 500mg pill?" No
valid return address and no follow-up on the OT pill question. I'll make a
trollhunter of you yet, DerbyDad. (-:

If someone like you asked a PC question OT, it would be a different story
because you know the posters here and their expertise. A newbie posting
this would be akin to him posting a WD-40 thread or an "I hate HF" or one of
the dozen perpetual topics that are favored by the resident trolls. sigh

It's sad that some people get their kicks wasting the time, goodwill and
helpfulness of others but this has been going on for a long, long time. It
used to be Mac v. IBM in the old, churlish days of modems and bodkins.

--
Bobby G.



When ever they don't come back and enter into discussion, I suspect troll.

At least it churns the ng up as usenet is dying.

On Tue, 01 Apr 2014 17:00:24 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 30 Mar 2014 17:41:56 -0400, "Jerry" wrote:

My machine is old, 12 yrs to be exact. I do believe my hard drive is
dying. Wouldn't mind keeping my monitor, but would like to increase memory,
speed, etc. And, specifically would like all my information put on the new
system. I really like Outlook Express, but have heard it is not available
anymore.

In other words, I need some words of wisdom regarding what information I
should be looking for. And what should I steer clear of?

As you can tell I really lack computer knowledge.

thanks


Buy one of those plug in external USB hard drives, and back up all your
data . Then you can either buy a new hard drive for your existing
computer, or another computer. Once the operating system is installed
on the new HD or computer, you can copy your data back. However, your
programs will need to be re-installed. Do this soon, if your HD is
failing. Once it fails, you'll lose everything. You can buy those USB
drives online, at computer stores, or even Walmart. They are not that
costly.

How do you know your HD is failing anyhow?

Outlook Express has always sucked, but that's just my opinion.
Thunderbird is free and works well for email.

Yea, you can keep your monitor as well as printer, keyboard, mouse etc.
But if you buy a NEW computer, it will come with Windows 8. Your 12
year old computer is probably XP. Prepare to relearn how to use your
computer if you get Windows 8, and soem of your programs may not be
compatible. If you want to save money and time, just buy a new HD for
under $50. The computer I'm using right now, is 14 years old, runs
Windows 98 and still works fine. It all depends on what you want and
need. I also use XPon other computers, but I would not want Windows 8.
I have no need for all the bloat they keep adding to the newer Windows.

Better idea for changing out a suspect drive is to get a universal
USB Hard drive interface and a copy of HDClone or EASEuse backup.
Clone the old drive to the new drive, then pull the old drive and
install the new one. EASEuse allows you to easily change from, say, a
30MB to a terrabyte drive, or anything in between.
Then after the drive is installed, do a "repair istall" of XP if
required. VERY rare occaision that I actually have to re-install
Windows XP to get performance back. I have a few "tools of the trade"
that do a very good, if not excellent job of getting back lost
performance.
I know a lot of guys don't believe they work, but the "proof is in the
pudding".

The Daring Dufas posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

infested

TDD

You are bugging me!
--
Tekkie

The Daring Dufas posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


Don't sell yourself short there philo, you are one of the brightest
folks posting here. You gladly share your experience and knowledge which
makes you a great guy to know. ^_^

TDD


watch out Philo he is an ass kisser and wants something out of you...

--
Tekkie

philo* posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

I've said this befo

We learn from our mistakes, therefore I have learned a lot.


I made a mistake ONCE. I thought I was wrong; but I wasn't...

--
Tekkie

Mayayana posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

If you run anti-virus
you're adding a huge load with doubtful benefit.


You want to see some "doubtful benefit"? Open this message - oops too late.

--
Tekkie

posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

join a domain)


Are you the master of your domain?

--
Tekkie

On Tue, 1 Apr 2014 18:22:17 -0400, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
Buy one of those plug in external USB hard drives, and back up all your
data . Then you can either buy a new hard drive for your existing
computer, or another computer. Once the operating system is installed
on the new HD or computer, you can copy your data back. However, your
programs will need to be re-installed. Do this soon, if your HD is
failing. Once it fails, you'll lose everything. You can buy those USB
drives online, at computer stores, or even Walmart. They are not that
costly.

How do you know your HD is failing anyhow?

Outlook Express has always sucked, but that's just my opinion.
Thunderbird is free and works well for email.

Yea, you can keep your monitor as well as printer, keyboard, mouse etc.

Depending on how much data is on the computer, one of the Thumb USB drives
may also work for less money.

I would not bet that the old keyboard and mouse can be used with a much
newer computer. More of the newer ones come with USB ports and his is
probably old enough to use the round connectors.

I just got in a computer BOX from ebay from $ 90 shipped . It has Win XP
Pro installed plus the COA on the box,a DVD RW 160 GB hard drive, 3 GB speed
and 1 GB of memory. Put in an order for 2 more DDR2 memory for about $ 12.
Had to go to the store to get a keyboard and mouse as the only spare ones I
had at home were the round plugs and that one needed the USB. I think that
computer was made in 2006 from the Dell site info.

I still like Outlook Express for the email I do.


Im using a USB keyboard on an older computer, by using an adaptor. They
do sell them. It converts from USB to the old round plug (the small
round one, not those huge ones they used on the real old computers of
386 era.

I should have thought what I said about printers. I have an old laser
printer that works on Win98, but not on Win2K or XP. No drivers
available. But as little as I print, I'll just copy the stuff to my W98
machine to print it. No big deal.

Yea, I just saw some 128 Gig flash drives on Ebay. I never thought it
would be possible to get 128G on such a tiny stick.... Heck, when they
came out with 16G, I thought that was about the limit. But those 128g
are about $50. For that price, I'll just buy a 500G external hard
drive, or for a few more $$$, a 1TB.

On Tue, 1 Apr 2014 20:39:26 -0400, Tekkie® wrote:

We learn from our mistakes, therefore I have learned a lot.


I made a mistake ONCE. I thought I was wrong; but I wasn't...

The last time I was wrong, I was mistaken.

On Tue, 01 Apr 2014 18:30:41 -0400, Frank
wrote:

When ever they don't come back and enter into discussion, I suspect troll.


In this case the OP replied to me. He took advice and posted some
necessary information about his system.

At least it churns the ng up as usenet is dying.

Gosh. We can't be having that happening, huh?

--
Definition of a camel: A horse designed by a committee

On Tue, 1 Apr 2014 20:56:57 -0400, Tekkie® wrote:

posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP

join a domain)


Are you the master of your domain?
You bet I am - and I have my wife's permission to say so!!!