Per :
What's your issue? What he said is perfectly correct. Crimping is
better but only if it's done *right*. We often do both (crimp, then
solder) because we don't have the proper tools for all of the
connectors we use.

The comment Clare@Snyder.... made about solder wicking back up the
wire and stiffening it rings true to me - because that's where the two
failures I've experienced happened: about a quarter inch up the wire
from the actual joint.
--
Pete Cresswell

In article ,
Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 05:06:53 +0000 (UTC),
(Larry W) wrote:

In article ,
Stormin Mormon wrote:
This article says soldering is less desirable
than crimps for Anderson Power Pole terminals.


http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/12/...ectronics.html

I was taught that soldering is far better than crimp.
What's your thoughts?

--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

While personal preference plays a large part in this choice, it is perhaps
worth noting that autombile and truck manufacturers, aircraft manufacturers,
and even aerospace industry, including the space shuttle builders among
others, all crimp rather than solder their wire connectors and terminals.

Your inclusion of truck manufacturers is definitely wrong. I
guarantee that Caterpillar crimps and solders all of the connectors
and terminals except where solder will prevent the terminal from
seating properly in its' housing. Caterpillar builds trucks.

I suspect your list may have included other manufacturers in error.

If we're going to quibble about the practices of a single manufacturer, then
perhaps it's also worth noting that Cat has only been producing on-highway
trucks since 2011. And while I have not professionally worked on their
construction equipkment in over 30 years, and only rarely see a Caterpillar
engine in my current job (Mostly Mack, Navistar, Cummins, DDA/Sterling
& Freightliner BTW) I can guarantee you that the Cat connectors I have
personally seen and worked on have all been crimped, not soldered.


--
Often wrong, never in doubt.

Larry W. - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

On 12/29/2013 11:14 AM, notbob wrote:
On 2013-12-29, Larry W wrote:

and even aerospace industry, including the space shuttle builders among
others, all crimp rather than solder their wire connectors and terminals.

Again, depends on the application. I jes replaced all the battery
cables on my 6V golf cart. Severe corrosion where the stranded heavy
gage cables crimp into the battery lugs necessitated it. The new
one's are the same thing, so will probably encounter the same problem
eventually. I suspect this construction is more about economy than
effectiveness. Why waste money on solder when crimp will do, in the
short term. I helped one lady with a bad golf cart cable. She was
trying to crimp on a new lug, but had no proper crimper. I soldered
it.

nb




Back in the old days it was common to grease such connections...
no harm in carrying on that old tradition or spraying with
anti-corrosion compound.

On 12/29/2013 6:24 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 12/28/2013 10:06 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
I have a ratcheting type crimp tool and have used low temperature silver
on crimped connectors if I'm worried about moisture wicking into the
stranded wire plus heat shrink that has the hot melt sticky stuff on the
inside. Regular heat shrink tubing makes a good strain relief on the
wire crimped into a connector because it prevents a sharp 90° bend in
the wire crimped into the connector when it's put under stress. The most
important thing, don't nick the wire when you strip the insulation off
of it. ^_^

TDD
Now, I'm not disappointed. i figured TDD would
mention the one thing, most important, which
everyone else missed. Good job, mate.


I missed writing "solder" after the word "silver". Silver solder has a
higher conductivity than regular solder but you need to use some heat
shrink for a strain relief for when the wire is bent at a sharp angle at
the connector. ^_^

TDD

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 21:16:00 +0000 (UTC),
(Larry W) wrote:

In article ,
Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 05:06:53 +0000 (UTC),
(Larry W) wrote:

In article ,
Stormin Mormon wrote:
This article says soldering is less desirable
than crimps for Anderson Power Pole terminals.


http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/12/...ectronics.html

I was taught that soldering is far better than crimp.
What's your thoughts?

--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

While personal preference plays a large part in this choice, it is perhaps
worth noting that autombile and truck manufacturers, aircraft manufacturers,
and even aerospace industry, including the space shuttle builders among
others, all crimp rather than solder their wire connectors and terminals.

Your inclusion of truck manufacturers is definitely wrong. I
guarantee that Caterpillar crimps and solders all of the connectors
and terminals except where solder will prevent the terminal from
seating properly in its' housing. Caterpillar builds trucks.

I suspect your list may have included other manufacturers in error.

If we're going to quibble about the practices of a single manufacturer, then
perhaps it's also worth noting that Cat has only been producing on-highway
trucks since 2011. And while I have not professionally worked on their
construction equipkment in over 30 years, and only rarely see a Caterpillar
engine in my current job (Mostly Mack, Navistar, Cummins, DDA/Sterling
& Freightliner BTW) I can guarantee you that the Cat connectors I have
personally seen and worked on have all been crimped, not soldered.

Well, if we're going to quibble, one would think it prudent to notice
the phrase "except where solder will prevent the terminal from
seating properly in its' housing" I had in my reply.

So, your point is?

On 2013-12-29, philo* wrote:

no harm in carrying on that old tradition or spraying with
anti-corrosion compound.

Yeah. I always carry a can in my back pocket. 8|

nb

On 12/29/2013 10:09 AM, wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 21:06:35 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 12/28/2013 6:08 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
This article says soldering is less desirable than crimps for
Anderson Power Pole terminals.

http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/12/...ectronics.html


I was taught that soldering is far better than crimp. What's your
thoughts?

I have a ratcheting type crimp tool and have used low temperature
silver on crimped connectors if I'm worried about moisture wicking
into the stranded wire plus heat shrink that has the hot melt
sticky stuff on the inside. Regular heat shrink tubing makes a good
strain relief on the wire crimped into a connector because it
prevents a sharp 90° bend in the wire crimped into the connector
when it's put under stress. The most important thing, don't nick
the wire when you strip the insulation off of it. ^_^

The crimp forms an air (moisture) tight seal. Solder doesn't add
anything and will cause wires to break.


I always solder them if expect them to be around moisture and always use
heat-shrink tubing for a strain relief then I use dielectric silicone
grease in the connector to prevent corrosion. I've never had a problem
with wires breaking in those circumstances. I have had soldered wires
break off circuit boards when they're bent at a sharp angle a few times.
^_^

TDD

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 09:32:37 -0500, woodchucker
wrote:

On 12/29/2013 12:59 AM, Todd wrote:
On 12/28/2013 08:33 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
"Gordon Shumway" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 19:20:38 -0500, "Ralph Mowery"
wrote:


With the proper tools the crimp seems to be the best. After a while
the
atoms in the wire and the connector will fuse together somewhat.

You gotta be smokin' some good ****!


Just know what I am talking about.
Here for a beter explination if you care.

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-vid...-and-soldering

Think of it as arc welding, only a heck of a lot slower.

Oh yea, really why? Arc welding is the melting of metal and making it
flow to join two or more metals.

Where is crimping anywhere like that. Crimping does not change the wire
or crimp.
A "good" crimp CAN be a virtual weld.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:41:18 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per :
What's your issue? What he said is perfectly correct. Crimping is
better but only if it's done *right*. We often do both (crimp, then
solder) because we don't have the proper tools for all of the
connectors we use.

The comment Clare@Snyder.... made about solder wicking back up the
wire and stiffening it rings true to me - because that's where the two
failures I've experienced happened: about a quarter inch up the wire
from the actual joint.
It's all part of AC43.13-1b

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 08:35:37 -0600, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 05:06:53 +0000 (UTC),
(Larry W) wrote:

In article ,
Stormin Mormon wrote:
This article says soldering is less desirable
than crimps for Anderson Power Pole terminals.


http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/12/...ectronics.html

I was taught that soldering is far better than crimp.
What's your thoughts?

--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

While personal preference plays a large part in this choice, it is perhaps
worth noting that autombile and truck manufacturers, aircraft manufacturers,
and even aerospace industry, including the space shuttle builders among
others, all crimp rather than solder their wire connectors and terminals.

Your inclusion of truck manufacturers is definitely wrong. I
guarantee that Caterpillar crimps and solders all of the connectors
and terminals except where solder will prevent the terminal from
seating properly in its' housing. Caterpillar builds trucks.

I suspect your list may have included other manufacturers in error.
Let's see your guarantee in print. Future son-in-law is Cat srvice
specialist. Original wiring harnesses are crimped.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 15:51:02 -0600, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 21:16:00 +0000 (UTC),
(Larry W) wrote:

In article ,
Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 05:06:53 +0000 (UTC),
(Larry W) wrote:

In article ,
Stormin Mormon wrote:
This article says soldering is less desirable
than crimps for Anderson Power Pole terminals.


http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/12/...ectronics.html

I was taught that soldering is far better than crimp.
What's your thoughts?

--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

While personal preference plays a large part in this choice, it is perhaps
worth noting that autombile and truck manufacturers, aircraft manufacturers,
and even aerospace industry, including the space shuttle builders among
others, all crimp rather than solder their wire connectors and terminals.

Your inclusion of truck manufacturers is definitely wrong. I
guarantee that Caterpillar crimps and solders all of the connectors
and terminals except where solder will prevent the terminal from
seating properly in its' housing. Caterpillar builds trucks.

I suspect your list may have included other manufacturers in error.

If we're going to quibble about the practices of a single manufacturer, then
perhaps it's also worth noting that Cat has only been producing on-highway
trucks since 2011. And while I have not professionally worked on their
construction equipkment in over 30 years, and only rarely see a Caterpillar
engine in my current job (Mostly Mack, Navistar, Cummins, DDA/Sterling
& Freightliner BTW) I can guarantee you that the Cat connectors I have
personally seen and worked on have all been crimped, not soldered.

Well, if we're going to quibble, one would think it prudent to notice
the phrase "except where solder will prevent the terminal from
seating properly in its' housing" I had in my reply.

So, your point is?
That must be virtually EVERY connection. They DO solder where wires
connect to printed circuit boards in housings - where the wire is
restrained by a strain relief. Even in-harness connections are
crimped and not soldered.

On 29 Dec 2013 21:55:51 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2013-12-29, philo* wrote:

no harm in carrying on that old tradition or spraying with
anti-corrosion compound.

Yeah. I always carry a can in my back pocket. 8|

nb
Easier to carry than a soldering iron big enough to solder a battery
terminal, and a roll of solder - - - - -

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 01:15:02 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 19:08:06 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

This article says soldering is less desirable
than crimps for Anderson Power Pole terminals.


http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/12/...ectronics.html

Despite the agreement from posters in general, line by line, the url
reads like a satire to me.

I was taught that soldering is far better than crimp.
What's your thoughts?

20 years ago I bought a selection of crimp connectors from J.C Whitney
on sale for about 8 dollars. Maybe 18 different kinds and sizes
totally 200 connectors For 8 dollars. 4 cents a piece.

Came with a crimping tool, which I use,

Am I to believe that the quality of the connectors is sufficient to
make a crimp? With cheap connectors, soldering sounds better to
me.
With a "proper" tool (which the cheap-asses crimper that comes in $7
kit) you will get an adequate connection with a little care. With a
cheap-assed tool it takes a bit more care, but it is still possible.

On 12/28/2013 11:06 PM, Larry W wrote:
In article , Stormin Mormon
wrote:
This article says soldering is less desirable than crimps for
Anderson Power Pole terminals.

http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/12/...ectronics.html


I was taught that soldering is far better than crimp.
What's your thoughts?


While personal preference plays a large part in this choice, it is
perhaps worth noting that autombile and truck manufacturers,
aircraft manufacturers, and even aerospace industry, including the
space shuttle builders among others, all crimp rather than solder
their wire connectors and terminals.

I've taken a lot of military surplus and aerospace electronic equipment
apart and the soldered connector pins always had heat-shrink tubing on
them as a strain relief but the wiring harnesses were always designed so
wires were not pulled at a 90° angle. ^_^

TDD

On 12/29/2013 7:42 AM, philo wrote:
On 12/28/2013 06:08 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
This article says soldering is less desirable than crimps for
Anderson Power Pole terminals.

http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/12/...ectronics.html


I was taught that soldering is far better than crimp. What's your
thoughts?


As I may have mentioned I just retired from Enersys-Delaware which is
a major manufacturer of industrial batteries and I was in close
contact with the engineers at Anderson as we used their connectors
exclusively.

Crimping is preferred to soldering. Just make sure you get a good
crimp. Most of their contacts require two crimps.

Soldering is acceptable but you must absolutely insure you do not
splash any solder on the mating portion of the contacts. Since the
contact are silver plated, solder will degrade the connection.

Link he

http://www.powerwerx.com/assembly.asp

That's why I use low temperature silver solder and clean any flux off
afterwards even if it's noncorrosive flux. ^_^

TDD

On 12/29/2013 4:42 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 12/29/2013 6:24 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 12/28/2013 10:06 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
I have a ratcheting type crimp tool and have used low temperature silver
on crimped connectors if I'm worried about moisture wicking into the
stranded wire plus heat shrink that has the hot melt sticky stuff on the
inside. Regular heat shrink tubing makes a good strain relief on the
wire crimped into a connector because it prevents a sharp 90° bend in
the wire crimped into the connector when it's put under stress. The most
important thing, don't nick the wire when you strip the insulation off
of it. ^_^

TDD
Now, I'm not disappointed. i figured TDD would
mention the one thing, most important, which
everyone else missed. Good job, mate.


I missed writing "solder" after the word "silver". Silver solder has a
higher conductivity than regular solder but you need to use some heat
shrink for a strain relief for when the wire is bent at a sharp angle at
the connector. ^_^

TDD

You can use low temp silver, if you don't nick
the wire while stripping it.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 2013-12-29, wrote:

Easier to carry than a soldering iron big enough to solder a battery
terminal, and a roll of solder - - - - -

I had a roll of solder and Bernz torch back at the house. Fresh outta
anti-corrosion spray. Besides, the real problem was lack of crimpers.
All she had was a pair of channel locks. I also didn't have a crimper
large enough. The solder worked fine.

nb

On 12/29/2013 10:33 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:

"philo " wrote in message
...

Oh, we just used those for auxiliary contacts, I usually worked
with the 350AMP connectors where heating could be significant.

When soldering was mentioned, I was thinking for around # 12 wire or
smaller. I worked around everything from very small wire around # 26
to some of the 000 sizes. Never soldered anything. Had to use some
hydraulic crimping tools on the larger stuff. Hand tools just would
not do a good job. I doubt anyone would think of soldering the wires
that are over 1/4 of an inch or larger. There were some ground wires
that were cadwelded, but I don't count that as solder.

The place I worked for had thousands (maybe millions) of crimped or
wire nut connections. Almost never saw a crimp fail except when some
dummy tried to crimp solid wire. A few wire nut connections failed,
but I suspect they were not put on correcctly.

At one time around the house I did solder some of the molex
connectors that used from # 24 to # 12 wire. Not that I wanted to,
but because I did not have the proper crimp tool. Now I have the
tools, I don't solder.

The larger crimp connectors I've used on power cables have grease in
them to fight corrosion. Of course they are cu/al rated and the grease
in the connectors is oxide inhibiting compound for the aluminum wire but
it also helps the copper wire connections. ^_^

TDD

TDD

On 12/29/2013 6:17 PM, notbob wrote:
I had a roll of solder and Bernz torch back at the house. Fresh outta
anti-corrosion spray. Besides, the real problem was lack of crimpers.
All she had was a pair of channel locks. I also didn't have a crimper
large enough. The solder worked fine.

nb

I've done crimps with hammer and anvil, on occasion.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

In article ,
Stormin Mormon wrote:

This article says soldering is less desirable
than crimps for Anderson Power Pole terminals.

I can't add much to what others have said comparing general crimp to
solder. But lets get back to the question about Anderson Power Pole
terminals. I use them extensively with my Ham equipment, operating from
13.8 volt DC power supplies and auto electrical systems.

I've found that Anderson Power Pole connections get hot from contact
resistance when they carry high current, say 20 Amps or so continuous.
If they are soldered, I do not believe the temperature would be so high
that the solder could melt. However the higher temperature might tend
to cause oxidation of the solder.

Fred

On 12/29/2013 05:38 PM, Fred McKenzie wrote:
In article ,
Stormin Mormon wrote:

This article says soldering is less desirable
than crimps for Anderson Power Pole terminals.

I can't add much to what others have said comparing general crimp to
solder. But lets get back to the question about Anderson Power Pole
terminals. I use them extensively with my Ham equipment, operating from
13.8 volt DC power supplies and auto electrical systems.

I've found that Anderson Power Pole connections get hot from contact
resistance when they carry high current, say 20 Amps or so continuous.
If they are soldered, I do not believe the temperature would be so high
that the solder could melt. However the higher temperature might tend
to cause oxidation of the solder.

Fred





The problem with lead/tin solder is that it is not a great conductor.
A good crimp puts the wire in direct contact with the silver plating of
the contact.

Silver solder might be a lot better, but for the 350amp contacts we
used, the cost would be prohibitive. (Even lead/tin solder in the
quantities we would have needed would have been expensive.)

On 12/29/13, 2:28 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 13:41:18 -0500, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per :
What's your issue? What he said is perfectly correct. Crimping is
better but only if it's done *right*. We often do both (crimp, then
solder) because we don't have the proper tools for all of the
connectors we use.

The comment Clare@Snyder.... made about solder wicking back up the
wire and stiffening it rings true to me - because that's where the two
failures I've experienced happened: about a quarter inch up the wire
from the actual joint.
It's all part of AC43.13-1b


Haven't scrutinized this whole thread... but do know in aerospace
crimping is preferred in most cases, but solder is both needed and used
in some situations.

As a side note...

The above poster mentions AC43.13-1b... this is a publication put out by
the FAA. The 'AC' stands for 'Advisory Circular'(even though in this
case the printed version is a book). PDF copies are freely available for
download from the FAA website, along with hundreds if not thousands of
other advisory circulars & handbooks. Even though their main focus is
aircraft, they contains loads excellent BS/advertizing free information.

For more wiring/soldering/crimping info, also go to NASA's site and find
a PDF of:

NASA-STD-8739.4

It's also free. (If you have trouble finding it there, just Google it...
it's all over the web) Like the FAA, NASA also has a ton of technical
PDF's up... look through them while your there.

Erik

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 17:34:15 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 15:51:02 -0600, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 21:16:00 +0000 (UTC),
(Larry W) wrote:

In article ,
Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 05:06:53 +0000 (UTC),
(Larry W) wrote:

In article ,
Stormin Mormon wrote:
This article says soldering is less desirable
than crimps for Anderson Power Pole terminals.


http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/12/...ectronics.html

I was taught that soldering is far better than crimp.
What's your thoughts?

--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

While personal preference plays a large part in this choice, it is perhaps
worth noting that autombile and truck manufacturers, aircraft manufacturers,
and even aerospace industry, including the space shuttle builders among
others, all crimp rather than solder their wire connectors and terminals.

Your inclusion of truck manufacturers is definitely wrong. I
guarantee that Caterpillar crimps and solders all of the connectors
and terminals except where solder will prevent the terminal from
seating properly in its' housing. Caterpillar builds trucks.

I suspect your list may have included other manufacturers in error.

If we're going to quibble about the practices of a single manufacturer, then
perhaps it's also worth noting that Cat has only been producing on-highway
trucks since 2011. And while I have not professionally worked on their
construction equipkment in over 30 years, and only rarely see a Caterpillar
engine in my current job (Mostly Mack, Navistar, Cummins, DDA/Sterling
& Freightliner BTW) I can guarantee you that the Cat connectors I have
personally seen and worked on have all been crimped, not soldered.

Well, if we're going to quibble, one would think it prudent to notice
the phrase "except where solder will prevent the terminal from
seating properly in its' housing" I had in my reply.

So, your point is?
That must be virtually EVERY connection. They DO solder where wires
connect to printed circuit boards in housings - where the wire is
restrained by a strain relief. Even in-harness connections are
crimped and not soldered.

Not hardly. Cat crimps and solders wire terminations, as you
mentioned, on circuit boards, as well in as but splices, ring
terminals and similar, military connectors, ITT Cannon (Sure Seal)
connectors and a few others.

They only crimp terminations in all Deutsch connectors and some other
lesser used connectors.

Due to the quantity of wires in the Deutsch connectors versus all the
other terminations approx. 60% are crimped only and 40% are crimped
and soldered.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 17:32:00 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 08:35:37 -0600, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 05:06:53 +0000 (UTC),
(Larry W) wrote:

In article ,
Stormin Mormon wrote:
This article says soldering is less desirable
than crimps for Anderson Power Pole terminals.


http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/12/...ectronics.html

I was taught that soldering is far better than crimp.
What's your thoughts?

--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

While personal preference plays a large part in this choice, it is perhaps
worth noting that autombile and truck manufacturers, aircraft manufacturers,
and even aerospace industry, including the space shuttle builders among
others, all crimp rather than solder their wire connectors and terminals.

Your inclusion of truck manufacturers is definitely wrong. I
guarantee that Caterpillar crimps and solders all of the connectors
and terminals except where solder will prevent the terminal from
seating properly in its' housing. Caterpillar builds trucks.

I suspect your list may have included other manufacturers in error.
Let's see your guarantee in print. Future son-in-law is Cat srvice
specialist. Original wiring harnesses are crimped.

Tell your future son-in-law to look at the engineering spec for
soldering that is listed on all harness drawings. If that contradicts
anything I've said I owe you a beer. If not, you owe me a beer. Deal?

"Ralph Mowery" wrote:
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message
...

OTOH, that's just failure. The efficiency of transmission has got to
be a whole other issue - which I have no clue about.
--

Again done correctly, the crimp will have almost no differance than a single
piece of wire. The solder will have a very small ammount of resistance.

Probably did not come out the way I want it to, but the crimp will have less
resistance than a soldered joint.


That's why a proper soldered joint is first crimped. Solder holds and
seals the connection. That's the way I was taught.

I can make some pretty poor soldering at times, but I can also use proper
technique. I passed a NASA soldering school class.

Who says a solder connection does not need proper strain relief to prevent
vibration failure.

I have soldered large battery cables using hundreds of watts, as well as
1.5 mm caps to boards.


Greg

wrote:
On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 18:27:56 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 19:08:06 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

This article says soldering is less desirable
than crimps for Anderson Power Pole terminals.


http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/12/...ectronics.html

I was taught that soldering is far better than crimp.
What's your thoughts?


The way I read the article he's talking about ONLY crimp versus ONLY
solder. Not crimp first then solder, which is what I do if I'm
looking for a belt and suspenders solution.

Solder will actually cause more problems than it solves (for properly
crimped connectors). Solder will wick up into multi-strand wire and
cause the wire to break at that point, under flex (work hardening).


That's what I learned in NASA soldering school, keeping wire from wicking.

Greg

That said, I've read in
the past that a PROPERLY crimped connection does not need to be
soldered, the kind of crimp powerful crimping machines can make in a
manufacturing facility.

They don't need to be machines. Hand crimpers work fine for smaller
connectors. The ratcheting type are best.

The crimps I do at home, even with a decent
hand crimper tool, I don't consider the same quality as a factory
crimp. But many of those home crimps have lasted years and years with
no trouble...

Sure but adding solder doesn't solve anything if the crimp is good.

philo wrote:
On 12/28/2013 06:08 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
This article says soldering is less desirable
than crimps for Anderson Power Pole terminals.


http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/12/...ectronics.html


I was taught that soldering is far better than crimp.
What's your thoughts?




As I may have mentioned I just retired from Enersys-Delaware which is a
major manufacturer of industrial batteries and I was in close contact
with the engineers at Anderson as we used their connectors exclusively.


Crimping is preferred to soldering.
Just make sure you get a good crimp. Most of their contacts require two crimps.


Soldering is acceptable but you must absolutely insure you do not splash
any solder on the mating portion of the contacts. Since the contact are
silver plated, solder will degrade the connection.


Link he


http://www.powerwerx.com/assembly.asp

When I had a chevy cavalier, I had to redo the multiple crimped connector
under the battery holder. Soldered or crimped, it's a manufacturer FAULT to
put connections under batteries. Do they HEAR me ????

Greg

On 12/29/2013 7:03 PM, philo wrote:
The problem with lead/tin solder is that it is not a great conductor.
A good crimp puts the wire in direct contact with the silver plating of
the contact.

Silver solder might be a lot better, but for the 350amp contacts we
used, the cost would be prohibitive. (Even lead/tin solder in the
quantities we would have needed would have been expensive.)

What job or project was that? How many quantities?

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 12/29/2013 6:21 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
The larger crimp connectors I've used on power cables have grease in
them to fight corrosion. Of course they are cu/al rated and the grease
in the connectors is oxide inhibiting compound for the aluminum wire but
it also helps the copper wire connections. ^_^

TDD

TDD


Years ago, I did use NoAlOx, on a thermostat. With
..250 push on terminals. I came back a couple months
later, the terminals had corroded and were useless.
Changed to dielectric grease. That seemed to work
better. Not sure what it is, with the grey stuff in
the squirt tube.
--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On 12/29/2013 10:25 PM, gregz wrote:

When I had a chevy cavalier, I had to redo the multiple crimped connector
under the battery holder. Soldered or crimped, it's a manufacturer FAULT to
put connections under batteries. Do they HEAR me ????

Greg


My parents had a Chrysler Imperial LeBaron.
We finally found the problem, it would go dead
at random moments. The problem was the bullet
connectors, to the fusible links, near the
battery. Dad would get out and wiggle them,
and the car would then start up and be fine
for a while

In the early 1970's, the made for TV show,
Emergency! had a similar problem with the squad
truck, I think the episode was called "Breakdown".
Wish I could go back and tell them, then, what
the problem likely was.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

my van had a problem with the resistor pack for the blower speed control. the connections would overheat and get flakey. after several failures i soldered the wires to the resistor bank connections.

no more troubles this repair outlasted the van

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 21:54:39 -0800 (PST), bob haller
wrote:

my van had a problem with the resistor pack for the blower speed control. the connections would overheat and get flakey. after several failures i soldered the wires to the resistor bank connections.

no more troubles this repair outlasted the van
I had to do the same to several connections on both the TranSport
and the Mystique. Due to crappy connectors, not due to crimped
connectors.

On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 00:33:25 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 12/29/2013 6:21 PM, The Daring Dufas wrote:
The larger crimp connectors I've used on power cables have grease in
them to fight corrosion. Of course they are cu/al rated and the grease
in the connectors is oxide inhibiting compound for the aluminum wire but
it also helps the copper wire connections. ^_^

TDD

TDD


Years ago, I did use NoAlOx, on a thermostat. With
.250 push on terminals. I came back a couple months
later, the terminals had corroded and were useless.
Changed to dielectric grease. That seemed to work
better. Not sure what it is, with the grey stuff in
the squirt tube.
NoAlOx is for ALUMINUM connections, not tinned prass (or bare brass
either)

On 12/29/2013 11:29 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 12/29/2013 7:03 PM, philo wrote:
The problem with lead/tin solder is that it is not a great conductor.
A good crimp puts the wire in direct contact with the silver plating of
the contact.

Silver solder might be a lot better, but for the 350amp contacts we
used, the cost would be prohibitive. (Even lead/tin solder in the
quantities we would have needed would have been expensive.)

What job or project was that? How many quantities?



Since I was in the industrial battery business I'd replace or install
close to 1000 connectors a year. Since Enersys itself is a world wide
company they used hundreds of thousands of connectors a year...more than
likely , over a million.

On 12/30/2013 8:30 AM, philo wrote:
Silver solder might be a lot better, but for the 350amp contacts we
used, the cost would be prohibitive. (Even lead/tin solder in the
quantities we would have needed would have been expensive.)

What job or project was that? How many quantities?



Since I was in the industrial battery business I'd replace or install
close to 1000 connectors a year. Since Enersys itself is a world wide
company they used hundreds of thousands of connectors a year...more than
likely , over a million.

Working on that scale, I can imagine the solder,
torch, power for the soldering iron and so on.
That would add up after a while. I do a couple
dozen crimps a year, and max of 15 amp rating
or so. For me to get out a torch and some silver
solder is no big expense.

Thanks for sharing a bit more about the, uh,
"big picture" of what you were doing.


--
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

On Mon, 30 Dec 2013 03:06:33 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

"Ralph Mowery" wrote:
"(PeteCresswell)" wrote in message
...

OTOH, that's just failure. The efficiency of transmission has got to
be a whole other issue - which I have no clue about.
--

Again done correctly, the crimp will have almost no differance than a single
piece of wire. The solder will have a very small ammount of resistance.

Probably did not come out the way I want it to, but the crimp will have less
resistance than a soldered joint.


That's why a proper soldered joint is first crimped. Solder holds and
seals the connection. That's the way I was taught.

I can make some pretty poor soldering at times, but I can also use proper
technique. I passed a NASA soldering school class.

Who says a solder connection does not need proper strain relief to prevent
vibration failure.

I have soldered large battery cables using hundreds of watts, as well as
1.5 mm caps to boards.


Greg

Our "radio guy" for all the state 2-way radios installs them with
crimped connections as far as hooking them into the car electrical
system, no soldering.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 11:08:04 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 18:27:56 -0700, Ashton Crusher
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 19:08:06 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

This article says soldering is less desirable
than crimps for Anderson Power Pole terminals.


http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/12/...ectronics.html

I was taught that soldering is far better than crimp.
What's your thoughts?


The way I read the article he's talking about ONLY crimp versus ONLY
solder. Not crimp first then solder, which is what I do if I'm
looking for a belt and suspenders solution.

Solder will actually cause more problems than it solves (for properly
crimped connectors). Solder will wick up into multi-strand wire and
cause the wire to break at that point, under flex (work hardening).

That said, I've read in
the past that a PROPERLY crimped connection does not need to be
soldered, the kind of crimp powerful crimping machines can make in a
manufacturing facility.

They don't need to be machines. Hand crimpers work fine for smaller
connectors. The ratcheting type are best.

The crimps I do at home, even with a decent
hand crimper tool, I don't consider the same quality as a factory
crimp. But many of those home crimps have lasted years and years with
no trouble...

Sure but adding solder doesn't solve anything if the crimp is good.

Putting aside vibration issues, I've always viewed the solder as
insurance against corrosion. I have found crimps that were bad due to
corrosion when used in exposed to weather areas. Never found a
problem when they were soldered in such use.

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 11:09:25 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 21:06:35 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 12/28/2013 6:08 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
This article says soldering is less desirable than crimps for
Anderson Power Pole terminals.

http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/12/...ectronics.html
I was taught that soldering is far better than crimp. What's your
thoughts?

I have a ratcheting type crimp tool and have used low temperature silver
on crimped connectors if I'm worried about moisture wicking into the
stranded wire plus heat shrink that has the hot melt sticky stuff on the
inside. Regular heat shrink tubing makes a good strain relief on the
wire crimped into a connector because it prevents a sharp 90° bend in
the wire crimped into the connector when it's put under stress. The most
important thing, don't nick the wire when you strip the insulation off
of it. ^_^

The crimp forms an air (moisture) tight seal. Solder doesn't add
anything and will cause wires to break.


Really, that must be why when they bury wires they just crimp them and
call it good......

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 05:06:53 +0000 (UTC),
(Larry W) wrote:

In article ,
Stormin Mormon wrote:
This article says soldering is less desirable
than crimps for Anderson Power Pole terminals.


http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/12/...ectronics.html

I was taught that soldering is far better than crimp.
What's your thoughts?

--
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

While personal preference plays a large part in this choice, it is perhaps
worth noting that autombile and truck manufacturers, aircraft manufacturers,
and even aerospace industry, including the space shuttle builders among
others, all crimp rather than solder their wire connectors and terminals.


Depending on what's needed, crimping is almost always going to be
faster and cheaper for a great many applications and will be "good
enough" for the life needed.

In article ,
Ashton Crusher wrote:

Depending on what's needed, crimping is almost always going to be
faster and cheaper for a great many applications and will be "good
enough" for the life needed.

You are suggesting that soldering, although more time consuming and
expensive, would be better for longer-life applications.

Back in the early 60s, I worked with an engineer that needed to
determine which type of connection would be best for use in a
high-reliability military system.

Half of several connector sets were soldered, half were crimped. This
included using smaller gauge wire in some pins, folding the wire for
crimping.

My job was to monitor the testing, which included vibration, shock,
temperature cycling, humidity cycling and salt spray.

As I recall, there were numerous failures of the soldered connections.
The only crimp failures were where smaller gauge wire was used.

Fred