The local slavery treatment is likely different than
what the whites on the Carnival Slave Tours did.
Both are nothing to be desired, I'm sure.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
wrote in message ....
On Jun 18, 5:17 am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-

sight for ever. I wonder if the warlords actually knew of the horror
their fellow Africans faced in the dark holds of those slaver's ships? o_O

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, I can't imagine they thought they were sending
them off to a vacation cruise.....

On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 22:54:23 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/17/2013 9:08 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 19:15:47 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/17/2013 3:34 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:22:42 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 5:41 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:00:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:




I wonder how far $100 million would go helping rural African medical
clinics keeping "The Children" alive and preventing them from going
blind by providing proper nutrition for the little tykes? Gosh, I
imagine there are a lot of things $100 million could help fix like the
storm damage done to the various communities around the U.S. o_O

TDD

You could feed a million Africans for a few months, but that would
spoil the First Family Vacation.

OTOH, I've read that food aid is spoiling in warehouses in some
countries where the corrupt government is not allowing distribution or
is selling it on the black market.


It's a real shame when folks try to help the unfortunate but the despots
and warlords who have seized control of those impoverished countries
take all the relief supplies for themselves. It's one of those
situations where your political beliefs may tell you not to interfere
with the government of other countries but your conscience
tells you to kick somebody's ass for what they're doing to helpless
people, especially children. o_O

TDD
Another problem with food aid is when cheap or free food is brought in
from outside it kills the market for locally grown food when there IS
a good crop - so the small farmer gets nothing for his cash crops and
cannot afford to buy anything from anyone else.

When the small farmer can't get anything for his rice because the
market has been flooded with free USAID rice shipped in from
where-ever, he soon cannot afford to grow rice any more, so now the
food shortage is even worse.

Food aid only when necessary, and help and education to allow the
locals to grow and produce their own food, or to earn the money to buy
food, is MUCH more effective.

Transportation is also a problem. Both for locally produced food and
for foof aid. The food grows after the rainy season - and the roads
are washed out by the rains to the point you cannot get trucks through
to pick up the crops to move them to market. Then the food aid comes
in, and the locals are out of food - the neew crop has not grown yet -
and the roads are impassible to deliver the food aid to where it is
needed..

It's a WHOLE LOT more complex than most who only see it from this side
of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
deeper than that.

African development is a very DIFFICULT subject. Much moreso than even
south American, central American, or Asian development - all of which
have their own issues.

You need to see the situation from within to even BEGIN to understand
it.


So it is the White Mans fault after all. It's a conspiracy to keep The
Africans enslaved. I suppose Whitey is afraid of a strong Sub-Saharan
Africa so all the charity and religious relief agencies are being used
to keep The Black Man down. They're not there to help even though they
truly believe they're doing God's work. They're a tool of the evil
multinational corporations which wish to steal Sub-Saharan Africa from
the people who own it. Darn, we must let all the church groups know the
truth so they can stop what they're doing. o_O

TDD
That is NOT what I said - and you know it.


Sorry, I was being ironic, no insult meant but I am disgusted with the
rampant stupidity of those thinking they are really helping. There are
some wonderful caring folks who do their best to save people in a bad
situation but often cause trouble out of ignorance of the way things
work and the way people think. In some areas of the world, a person's
prized possession and something they may risk their life to protect is
something as insignificant as a blanket. Insignificant to people in the
wealthy developed countries but a priceless object to our Third World
friend. o_O

TDD
That's the kind of thing my daughter is trying to address and remedy
in the projects she is involved with and the work she is doing in her
Master's degree in International Development.

On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 23:06:50 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/17/2013 9:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 20:04:48 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:18 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.

Educating them is definitely helping.

I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.


I salute you and your family for trying to help those poor folks in such
a bad situation. The people who really help are few and far between and
that's a real shame. If I ever start to feel sorry for myself, all I
have to do is remember the folks around the world who's
lives are so much harder than my own. I know that if I resided in one
of those Third World countries, I would have been dead long ago. The
nurse called today with news of a new pain medication they want me to
try. I wouldn't have access to such medical care in a third world
country and I would suffer a lot worse fate. o_O

TDD
Even something as common ad diabetes is pretty much a death sentance
for most. It's not a good situation even for "whitey" with diabetes.

Chronic malaria, Bilharzia, and malnutrition means many have 3 strikes
against them before they reach age 5 (if they do). And that's not
including what is in the drinking water.

Sanitation is another serious issue - building proper privies AND
wells in Wast Africa would make a huge difference in human health.
In East Africa and Central Africa the general higene seamed a lot
better.

On my trip last spring to the Mediteranean, North Africa, and the
Canary Islands I think the worst conditions I ran across were in
Marseille France - worse than Cassablanca - and some parts of
Cassablanca were pretty rough. We saw the "underbelly" of Cassablanca
from a mini-taxi we hired to take us around the city most tourists
don't get to see - parts of the "old city" where even a minibus would
not get through. Very Arab - yet also very African


I believe the thing that would save a lot of children is clean potable
water. I remember seeing a video of relief agencies setting up medical
clinics for children in order to give them a mega dose of vitamins to
keep the infants from going blind. I can't physically do anything like
travel to those areas of the world to help those folks and I have a
little bit of money coming in but am suspicious of what agency actually
uses donations for something other than TV advertizing to get more
donations. With your experience, who do you consider a charitable
organization that efficiently uses donations to help people? o_O

TDD
Without a doubt one of the top agencies as far as effectiveness and
proper ethical use of funds is the Mennonite Central Committee.

In the USA they are located at:

Mennonite Central Committee
21 S 12th St, Akron, PA, United States
+1 717-859-1151

More information at mcc.org. Although they are a Christian
organization, directly connected to the Mennonite and Brethren in
Christ denominations, the MCC is a relief and development agency - not
a mission agency - although, being a christian organization,
everything is done in the name of Christ and to his glory.
If that bothers anyone, I'm sorry. Sorry it bothers you - not sorry
to be a part of the organization and it's supporting churches.

On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 23:35:57 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 17, 4:54*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 23:11:30 -0700 (PDT), harry

wrote:
On Jun 17, 1:32*am, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:17:01 -0400, wrote:
Yes, development in Africa is a vairy difficult subject - if it
wasn't, not everybody who has tried in the past would have failed as
dismally as they have - but progress is being made - one step at a
time.

I think, along the Congo, natives regretted *not killing *Livingstone
& Stanley ?

Since Livingstone never traveled on the Congo they wouldn't have had
the chance.

His was at the headwaters of the Congo.

But then you always come up with fiction.

Stanley was an American who spent time shooting negros, in Africa
sport he was no doubt accustomed to.

Stanley was not an American. He was born in Wales, died in London.


By that measure there are no Americans except the indians.
The ones left that is after the various massacres.
Still the VAST majority of Americans were born on American soil - of
parents born on American soil, who died on American soil - and they
themselves will die on American soil. A very large percentage having
never set foot OFF of American soil - so yes, the RE American.

On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 23:53:50 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 17, 10:09*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 22:55:20 -0700 (PDT), harry









wrote:
On Jun 17, 1:14*am, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry

wrote:
On Jun 15, 8:18*pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. *It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. *The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. *These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.

* Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.

Educating them is definitely helping.

I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.

I have travelled extensively in Africa and other third world
countries.
Africa is a **** hole and getting worse, I have watched it deteriorate
over the years.
As someone else mentioned,the continent is overpopulated.
And your daughter is wasting her time.
The "work" of these do-gooders is entirely counter productive and
destructive to the local economy of these places.

I'll agree that much of what has passed for "aid" and "development"
has been counterproductive.Most of the problems in rural places are actually caused by these
foreign (often religious) nuts.

The aid organisations exist primarily to support themselves, many make
a good living out of money donated by well meaning idiots. *Most of
the money is spent on administration, posh hotels for administrators
and bribes. *Much is syphoned away through corruption.
So next time you are asked for money for one of these organisations,
DON'T give.
A well known example here.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...an-Band-Aid-mo...

* Just be sure that where you put your money is an effective place to
put it. *Agencies like Mennonite Central Committee run on a shoestring
- and no money or aid goes anywhere unless they have "boots on the
ground" to monitor what goes where and to be sure it is not
misappropriated.

World vision does a good job too - albeit with higher overhead, since
much is done by "employees" rather than "volunteers". The aim is to
have locals doing the work on the ground in the countries involved.
Teach them to be able to do what needs to be done, and to do it
effectively (proper use of funds, effective use of resources, ethical
dealings, etc)

My daughter will never get rich - if she's lucky she will make a
reasonable income - and yes, many times she wonders if she IS wasting
her time.

I had the same missgivings when I was in Africa (Zambia) 40 years ago.
Was it effective for me to be there teaching when they had their own
people who were capable of teaching - but could make more money
working in private business because I was willing to be there
basically teaching for nothing??? *Might it not have been better to
work towards getting their own people involved rather than having Cuso
volunteers do the job? *The CIDA funded directors of the program had a
pretty nice gig going that they were not too interested in working
their way out of. *Can't complain about sun 9 months of the year,
cheap beer, and a relatively easy expatriate lifestyle, along with a
good salary and "hardship bonus".

For my part, I tried to instill in my students a sense of
responsibility, and a sense of PRIDE - so that they might consider
teaching others - passing on the knowlege they were SO FORTUNATE to
have the opportunity to have provided for them. *I have to believe
that at least a few of my 35 students went on to be a positive
influence in their world. After 2 years I came home with empty
pockets, but a lifetime of experiences to look back on.

My later time in Burkina Faso I sometimes also had to wonder if there
was any point to being there. The people group I was involved in had
real trust issues - they didn't trust each other farther than they
could throw each other - and with good reason - as honesty was not a
commodity in great supply. My friends had, by that time, been working
with this group for about 17 years, and had been really questioning if
anything was getting through. While I was there they found out about
some serious duplicity and deciet that was causing serious problems in
the community. They had to leave the community a year or so later, if
for no other reason than to preserve their sanity - although health
was the more significant force. *They still had contact and were still
working with the community, although not living in the community.
Going back 10 or more years later, the whole fabric of the village has
changed - they are more trusting and trustworthy - and along with that
they are becoming more self sufficient and prosperous, and more
healthy. They had an influence - and they had to *step back and let it
perculate for a while.

Interesting monologue.
There are huge tracts of ex-farmland in Africa uncultivated because
the farmers can't sell anything they grow due to food aid. So they
give up and go and join the queue for the free hand-outs.
And there is ignorance and incompetence, they are unable to run any
business effectively.

That's your opinion

A lot of land has intermitant droughts. The same places cannot support
the population in drought though it can in good rains. So,
overpopulated due to high birth AND survival rates.

The survival rates are TERRIBLY low in many of these countries and
areas. Higher than you would like to see as you obviously believe the
world would be better off without Africans (as you apparently believe
it is without native americans)

There is no point in supporting this ever increasing population, we
are headed for mega-disaster.

Unless they can be taught how to support themselves. Africa is the
next China or Japan or Korea or India as far as being a large supply
of low cost labour to manufacture all the things Britts and Yanks and
Canuks, (and increasingly, Chinese and Indians) want to buy for low
prices.
The streets in the UK are filled with "Chuggers" (Charity muggers).

They are paid to try to get you to sign up to regular payments for one
charity or another.
At one time we had volunteers on the streets rattling tins for
donations.
Charity is big business over here.

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 00:06:17 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 17, 11:21*pm, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 17:10:53 -0400, wrote:
In America the Indians were murdered, put in concentration camps and
ethnically cleansed.

Murder was not against the law. Killing a hostile injuns was
justified. There were no "concentrations camps". Once an Indian,
always an Indian.

So harry you continue to tell lies, constantly repeating the lies, but
you never give a reference. Show this GROUP where you found this
information.

*By the British - who then became Americans.

harry will defend his lies; repeating it in frequent postings...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...en ous_People

The USA has always had concentration camps and still has.
More then a hundred throughout the USA and of course one in Cuba.
http://www.greatdreams.com/concentration.htm

You don't even know current events never mind your own history.
I hear you still gas people in some states.
And "W" authorised torture.
Now we learn your gestapo is spying on all your/our emails and
telephone convesations.

The fascist state.
You believe everything you see on the internet???

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 00:16:57 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 18, 3:20*am, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 20:04:48 -0500, The Daring Dufas









wrote:
On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:18 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. *It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. *The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. *These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
* *Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.

Educating them is definitely helping.

I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.

I salute you and your family for trying to help those poor folks in such
a bad situation. The people who really help are few and far between and
that's a real shame. If I ever start to feel sorry for myself, all I
have to do is remember the folks around the world who's
lives are so much harder than my own. I know that if I resided in one
of those Third World countries, I would have been dead long ago. The
nurse called today with news of a new pain medication they want me to
try. I wouldn't have access to such medical care in a third world
country and I would suffer a lot worse fate. o_O

TDD

Even something as common ad diabetes is pretty much a death sentance
for most. It's not a good situation even for "whitey" with diabetes.

Chronic malaria, Bilharzia, and malnutrition means many have 3 strikes
against them before they reach age 5 (if they do). And that's not
including what is in the drinking water.

Sanitation is another serious issue - building proper privies AND
wells in Wast Africa would make a huge difference in human health.
*In East Africa and Central Africa the general higene seamed a lot
better.

On my trip last spring to the Mediteranean, North Africa, and the
Canary Islands I think the worst conditions I ran across were in
Marseille France - worse than Cassablanca - and some parts of
Cassablanca were pretty rough. We saw the "underbelly" of Cassablanca
from a mini-taxi we hired to take us around the city most tourists
don't get to see - parts of the "old city" where even a minibus would
not get through. Very Arab - yet also very African

Heh Heh.
I have travelled extensively in Morocco. It is now a major European
tourist destination. Think Mexico only less violent/more culture.
For the moment anyway
There are far worse places than Casablanca. And better.
Casablanca is pretty untypical.
Just saying, Marseilles is a lot worse.

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 00:19:54 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 18, 5:06*am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 6/17/2013 9:20 PM, wrote:









On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 20:04:48 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:18 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. *It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. *The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. *These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
* * Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.

Educating them is definitely helping.

I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.

I salute you and your family for trying to help those poor folks in such
a bad situation. The people who really help are few and far between and
that's a real shame. If I ever start to feel sorry for myself, all I
have to do is remember the folks around the world who's
lives are so much harder than my own. I know that if I resided in one
of those Third World countries, I would have been dead long ago. The
nurse called today with news of a new pain medication they want me to
try. I wouldn't have access to such medical care in a third world
country and I would suffer a lot worse fate. o_O

TDD
Even something as common ad diabetes is pretty much a death sentance
for most. It's not a good situation even for "whitey" with diabetes.

Chronic malaria, Bilharzia, and malnutrition means many have 3 strikes
against them before they reach age 5 (if they do). And that's not
including what is in the drinking water.

Sanitation is another serious issue - building proper privies AND
wells in Wast Africa would make a huge difference in human health.
* In East Africa and Central Africa the general higene seamed a lot
better.

On my trip last spring to the Mediteranean, North Africa, and the
Canary Islands I think the worst conditions I ran across were in
Marseille France - worse than Cassablanca - and some parts of
Cassablanca were pretty rough. We saw the "underbelly" of Cassablanca
from a mini-taxi we hired to take us around the city most tourists
don't get to see - parts of the "old city" where even a minibus would
not get through. Very Arab - yet also very African

I believe the thing that would save a lot of children is clean potable
water. I remember seeing a video of relief agencies setting up medical
clinics for children in order to give them a mega dose of vitamins to
keep the infants from going blind. I can't physically do anything like
travel to those areas of the world to help those folks and I have a
little bit of money coming in but am suspicious of what agency actually
uses donations for something other than TV advertizing to get more
donations. With your experience, who do you consider a charitable
organization that efficiently uses donations to help people? o_O

TDD

You are right to be suspicious Duf. Many of these aid agencies are
just self serving wonks/crooks.
There are probably lots of people in the USA need assistance these
days. You can help them on a personal basis and see where your money
is going.
One does not rule out the other Harry. Yes, Charity begins at home -
but it doesn't have to stop there.

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 04:17:23 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/18/2013 2:10 AM, harry wrote:
On Jun 18, 1:15 am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 6/17/2013 3:34 PM, wrote:









On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:22:42 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 5:41 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:00:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

I wonder how far $100 million would go helping rural African medical
clinics keeping "The Children" alive and preventing them from going
blind by providing proper nutrition for the little tykes? Gosh, I
imagine there are a lot of things $100 million could help fix like the
storm damage done to the various communities around the U.S. o_O

TDD

You could feed a million Africans for a few months, but that would
spoil the First Family Vacation.

OTOH, I've read that food aid is spoiling in warehouses in some
countries where the corrupt government is not allowing distribution or
is selling it on the black market.

It's a real shame when folks try to help the unfortunate but the despots
and warlords who have seized control of those impoverished countries
take all the relief supplies for themselves. It's one of those
situations where your political beliefs may tell you not to interfere
with the government of other countries but your conscience
tells you to kick somebody's ass for what they're doing to helpless
people, especially children. o_O

TDD
Another problem with food aid is when cheap or free food is brought in
from outside it kills the market for locally grown food when there IS
a good crop - so the small farmer gets nothing for his cash crops and
cannot afford to buy anything from anyone else.

When the small farmer can't get anything for his rice because the
market has been flooded with free USAID rice shipped in from
where-ever, he soon cannot afford to grow rice any more, so now the
food shortage is even worse.

Food aid only when necessary, and help and education to allow the
locals to grow and produce their own food, or to earn the money to buy
food, is MUCH more effective.

Transportation is also a problem. Both for locally produced food and
for foof aid. The food grows after the rainy season - and the roads
are washed out by the rains to the point you cannot get trucks through
to pick up the crops to move them to market. Then the food aid comes
in, and the locals are out of food - the neew crop has not grown yet -
and the roads are impassible to deliver the food aid to where it is
needed..

It's a WHOLE LOT more complex than most who only see it from this side
of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
deeper than that.

African development is a very DIFFICULT subject. Much moreso than even
south American, central American, or Asian development - all of which
have their own issues.

You need to see the situation from within to even BEGIN to understand
it.

So it is the White Mans fault after all. It's a conspiracy to keep The
Africans enslaved. I suppose Whitey is afraid of a strong Sub-Saharan
Africa so all the charity and religious relief agencies are being used
to keep The Black Man down. They're not there to help even though they
truly believe they're doing God's work. They're a tool of the evil
multinational corporations which wish to steal Sub-Saharan Africa from
the people who own it. Darn, we must let all the church groups know the
truth so they can stop what they're doing. o_O

TDD

There has always been slavery everywhere and there still is.
Both legal and illegal.
Black people never even discovered the wheel. They became an obvious
target for slave taking.
Most slaves were rounded up by their compatriots and sold on. Some
even sold their own unwanted children


The ancestors of many of my darker skinned cousins were sold into
slavery by their own people on the coast of West Africa to slave traders
from Europe. The different tribes waring with each other didn't consider
what they were doing with the prisoners they took to be wrong but I
suppose they didn't care as long as their adversaries were out of their
sight for ever. I wonder if the warlords actually knew of the horror
their fellow Africans faced in the dark holds of those slaver's ships? o_O

TDD
Not until they ended up in the next ship - - - Which occaisionally
DID hapopen.

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 08:53:03 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Sounds like the situation is a total pain in the ass.
I'm glad you're seeing it from within.

You obviously see things deeper than most.
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
.
wrote in message ...

Another problem with food aid is when cheap or free food is brought in
from outside it kills the market for locally grown food when there IS
a good crop - so the small farmer gets nothing for his cash crops and
cannot afford to buy anything from anyone else.

When the small farmer can't get anything for his rice because the
market has been flooded with free USAID rice shipped in from
where-ever, he soon cannot afford to grow rice any more, so now the
food shortage is even worse.

Food aid only when necessary, and help and education to allow the
locals to grow and produce their own food, or to earn the money to buy
food, is MUCH more effective.

Transportation is also a problem. Both for locally produced food and
for foof aid. The food grows after the rainy season - and the roads
are washed out by the rains to the point you cannot get trucks through
to pick up the crops to move them to market. Then the food aid comes
in, and the locals are out of food - the neew crop has not grown yet -
and the roads are impassible to deliver the food aid to where it is
needed..

It's a WHOLE LOT more complex than most who only see it from this side
of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
deeper than that.

African development is a very DIFFICULT subject. Much moreso than even
south American, central American, or Asian development - all of which
have their own issues.

You need to see the situation from within to even BEGIN to understand
it.
It helps that I lived and worked in the area and my daughter is
currently heavilly involved and has made it her subject of study for
many years.

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 09:08:27 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Ah, health problems. I dumped Lenny after he got
me sick three times in a couple months. Twice off
a sick kid, and once when he fed me a salmonella
burger that he knew good and well was tainted.

Part of the reason I don't go to Africa, I can't be
getting sick like that. I've heard that Africa is host
to a wide variety of diseases, in larg part because
they don't understand microbes.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

You can get just as sick, just as fast, in Mexico
.
wrote in message ...

Even something as common ad diabetes is pretty much a death sentance
for most. It's not a good situation even for "whitey" with diabetes.

Chronic malaria, Bilharzia, and malnutrition means many have 3 strikes
against them before they reach age 5 (if they do). And that's not
including what is in the drinking water.

Sanitation is another serious issue - building proper privies AND
wells in Wast Africa would make a huge difference in human health.
In East Africa and Central Africa the general higene seamed a lot
better.

On my trip last spring to the Mediteranean, North Africa, and the
Canary Islands I think the worst conditions I ran across were in
Marseille France - worse than Cassablanca - and some parts of
Cassablanca were pretty rough. We saw the "underbelly" of Cassablanca
from a mini-taxi we hired to take us around the city most tourists
don't get to see - parts of the "old city" where even a minibus would
not get through. Very Arab - yet also very African

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 09:11:17 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Now, that's a profound question. Which agencies
are actually doing good for the Africans? I don't
donate, because I'm suspicious.

The other question. Is foreign relief allowing the
Africans to have larger families, who will grow up
as dependants on foreign relief?
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

An African woman in , say, Burkina Faso may have 8 children, of which
5 survive past Age 2, and 3 reach adulthood to be able to support her
in her old age. Large families in Africa are NOT that common - unless
you count the families of the MEN, who like in your religous
backround, have many wives - they may father 30 or 40, of which 25
survive past age 2, and 12 to 15 reach adulthood.
.
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message ...

I believe the thing that would save a lot of children is clean potable
water. I remember seeing a video of relief agencies setting up medical
clinics for children in order to give them a mega dose of vitamins to
keep the infants from going blind. I can't physically do anything like
travel to those areas of the world to help those folks and I have a
little bit of money coming in but am suspicious of what agency actually
uses donations for something other than TV advertizing to get more
donations. With your experience, who do you consider a charitable
organization that efficiently uses donations to help people? o_O

TDD

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 00:06:17 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 17, 11:21 pm, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 17:10:53 -0400, wrote:
In America the Indians were murdered, put in concentration camps and
ethnically cleansed.

Murder was not against the law. Killing a hostile injuns was
justified. There were no "concentrations camps". Once an Indian,
always an Indian.

So harry you continue to tell lies, constantly repeating the lies, but
you never give a reference. Show this GROUP where you found this
information.

By the British - who then became Americans.

harry will defend his lies; repeating it in frequent postings...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...en ous_People

The USA has always had concentration camps and still has.
More then a hundred throughout the USA and of course one in Cuba.
http://www.greatdreams.com/concentration.htm

You don't even know current events never mind your own history.
I hear you still gas people in some states.
And "W" authorised torture.
Now we learn your gestapo is spying on all your/our emails and
telephone convesations.

The fascist state.
You believe everything you see on the internet???

So which bit isn't true?

On 6/18/2013 12:12 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 22:54:23 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/17/2013 9:08 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 19:15:47 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/17/2013 3:34 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:22:42 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 5:41 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:00:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:




I wonder how far $100 million would go helping rural African medical
clinics keeping "The Children" alive and preventing them from going
blind by providing proper nutrition for the little tykes? Gosh, I
imagine there are a lot of things $100 million could help fix like the
storm damage done to the various communities around the U.S. o_O

TDD

You could feed a million Africans for a few months, but that would
spoil the First Family Vacation.

OTOH, I've read that food aid is spoiling in warehouses in some
countries where the corrupt government is not allowing distribution or
is selling it on the black market.


It's a real shame when folks try to help the unfortunate but the despots
and warlords who have seized control of those impoverished countries
take all the relief supplies for themselves. It's one of those
situations where your political beliefs may tell you not to interfere
with the government of other countries but your conscience
tells you to kick somebody's ass for what they're doing to helpless
people, especially children. o_O

TDD
Another problem with food aid is when cheap or free food is brought in
from outside it kills the market for locally grown food when there IS
a good crop - so the small farmer gets nothing for his cash crops and
cannot afford to buy anything from anyone else.

When the small farmer can't get anything for his rice because the
market has been flooded with free USAID rice shipped in from
where-ever, he soon cannot afford to grow rice any more, so now the
food shortage is even worse.

Food aid only when necessary, and help and education to allow the
locals to grow and produce their own food, or to earn the money to buy
food, is MUCH more effective.

Transportation is also a problem. Both for locally produced food and
for foof aid. The food grows after the rainy season - and the roads
are washed out by the rains to the point you cannot get trucks through
to pick up the crops to move them to market. Then the food aid comes
in, and the locals are out of food - the neew crop has not grown yet -
and the roads are impassible to deliver the food aid to where it is
needed..

It's a WHOLE LOT more complex than most who only see it from this side
of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
deeper than that.

African development is a very DIFFICULT subject. Much moreso than even
south American, central American, or Asian development - all of which
have their own issues.

You need to see the situation from within to even BEGIN to understand
it.


So it is the White Mans fault after all. It's a conspiracy to keep The
Africans enslaved. I suppose Whitey is afraid of a strong Sub-Saharan
Africa so all the charity and religious relief agencies are being used
to keep The Black Man down. They're not there to help even though they
truly believe they're doing God's work. They're a tool of the evil
multinational corporations which wish to steal Sub-Saharan Africa from
the people who own it. Darn, we must let all the church groups know the
truth so they can stop what they're doing. o_O

TDD
That is NOT what I said - and you know it.


Sorry, I was being ironic, no insult meant but I am disgusted with the
rampant stupidity of those thinking they are really helping. There are
some wonderful caring folks who do their best to save people in a bad
situation but often cause trouble out of ignorance of the way things
work and the way people think. In some areas of the world, a person's
prized possession and something they may risk their life to protect is
something as insignificant as a blanket. Insignificant to people in the
wealthy developed countries but a priceless object to our Third World
friend. o_O

TDD
That's the kind of thing my daughter is trying to address and remedy
in the projects she is involved with and the work she is doing in her
Master's degree in International Development.


Your daughter is one of those rare angels. I would guess you're proud of
her. ^_^

TDD

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 23:06:50 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/17/2013 9:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 20:04:48 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:18 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are
plastic,
modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type
aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.
Without a doubt one of the top agencies as far as effectiveness and
proper ethical use of funds is the Mennonite Central Committee.

In the USA they are located at:

Mennonite Central Committee
21 S 12th St, Akron, PA, United States
+1 717-859-1151

More information at mcc.org. Although they are a Christian
organization, directly connected to the Mennonite and Brethren in
Christ denominations, the MCC is a relief and development agency - not
a mission agency - although, being a christian organization,
everything is done in the name of Christ and to his glory.
If that bothers anyone, I'm sorry. Sorry it bothers you - not sorry
to be a part of the organization and it's supporting churches.

Ah. You get help ifyou gototheir church.
Immoral, it should be unconditional.

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 23:11:30 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 17, 1:32 am, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:17:01 -0400, wrote:
Yes, development in Africa is a vairy difficult subject - if it
wasn't, not everybody who has tried in the past would have failed as
dismally as they have - but progress is being made - one step at a
time.

I think, along the Congo, natives regretted not killing Livingstone
& Stanley ?

Since Livingstone never traveled on the Congo they wouldn't have had
the chance.

His was at the headwaters of the Congo.

But then you always come up with fiction.

Stanley was an American who spent time shooting negros, in Africa
sport he was no doubt accustomed to.

Stanley was not an American. He was born in Wales, died in London.

So. A British explorer "who spent time shooting negros, in Africa
sport he was no doubt accustomed to."

"But then you always come up with fiction."

American enough to fight in the civil war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_M...ry.2C_new_name

As American as Arnie.

On 6/18/2013 9:22 AM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 00:06:17 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 17, 11:21 pm, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 17:10:53 -0400, wrote:
In America the Indians were murdered, put in concentration camps and
ethnically cleansed.

Murder was not against the law. Killing a hostile injuns was
justified. There were no "concentrations camps". Once an Indian,
always an Indian.

So harry you continue to tell lies, constantly repeating the lies, but
you never give a reference. Show this GROUP where you found this
information.

By the British - who then became Americans.

harry will defend his lies; repeating it in frequent postings...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...en ous_People

Wow 1838!

The USA has always had concentration camps and still has.
More then a hundred throughout the USA and of course one in Cuba.
http://www.greatdreams.com/concentration.htm


That shows a photo of what appears to the federal prison in El Reno.

You don't even know current events never mind your own history.

I constantly catch you in lies here, about American history. Shall I
start a chronological log for you?

I hear you still gas people in some states.

Name one.

And "W" authorised torture.

Good for him. But is not "torture". It is enhanced interrogations, but
being the git that you are, you'll never figure it out.

Now we learn your gestapo is spying on all your/our emails and
telephone convesations.


Monitoring communications goes back the WWI or WWII. But what would
know.

The fascist state.

Got a resource reference for that?


I saw it on the Interweb so it must be true about the civilian
concentration camps in The United States. ^_^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...ution,_El_Reno

TDD

Do you think the stick figures in Africa can learn
factory skills? It's a bit different than hunter
gatherer skills of thier tradition.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
wrote in message ...


There is no point in supporting this ever increasing population, we
are headed for mega-disaster.

Unless they can be taught how to support themselves. Africa is the
next China or Japan or Korea or India as far as being a large supply
of low cost labour to manufacture all the things Britts and Yanks and
Canuks, (and increasingly, Chinese and Indians) want to buy for low
prices.

Can you see light at the end of the colon?
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
wrote in message ...


You need to see the situation from within to
even BEGIN to understand
it.
It helps that I lived and worked in the area and my
daughter is currently heavilly involved and has made
it her subject of study for many years.

I'd put Mexico also on my list of places not to visit.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
wrote in message ...
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 09:08:27 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Ah, health problems. I dumped Lenny after he got
me sick three times in a couple months. Twice off
a sick kid, and once when he fed me a salmonella
burger that he knew good and well was tainted.

Part of the reason I don't go to Africa, I can't be
getting sick like that. I've heard that Africa is host
to a wide variety of diseases, in larg part because
they don't understand microbes.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

You can get just as sick, just as fast, in Mexico

On 6/18/2013 12:19 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 23:06:50 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/17/2013 9:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 20:04:48 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:18 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.

Educating them is definitely helping.

I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.


I salute you and your family for trying to help those poor folks in such
a bad situation. The people who really help are few and far between and
that's a real shame. If I ever start to feel sorry for myself, all I
have to do is remember the folks around the world who's
lives are so much harder than my own. I know that if I resided in one
of those Third World countries, I would have been dead long ago. The
nurse called today with news of a new pain medication they want me to
try. I wouldn't have access to such medical care in a third world
country and I would suffer a lot worse fate. o_O

TDD
Even something as common ad diabetes is pretty much a death sentance
for most. It's not a good situation even for "whitey" with diabetes.

Chronic malaria, Bilharzia, and malnutrition means many have 3 strikes
against them before they reach age 5 (if they do). And that's not
including what is in the drinking water.

Sanitation is another serious issue - building proper privies AND
wells in Wast Africa would make a huge difference in human health.
In East Africa and Central Africa the general higene seamed a lot
better.

On my trip last spring to the Mediteranean, North Africa, and the
Canary Islands I think the worst conditions I ran across were in
Marseille France - worse than Cassablanca - and some parts of
Cassablanca were pretty rough. We saw the "underbelly" of Cassablanca
from a mini-taxi we hired to take us around the city most tourists
don't get to see - parts of the "old city" where even a minibus would
not get through. Very Arab - yet also very African


I believe the thing that would save a lot of children is clean potable
water. I remember seeing a video of relief agencies setting up medical
clinics for children in order to give them a mega dose of vitamins to
keep the infants from going blind. I can't physically do anything like
travel to those areas of the world to help those folks and I have a
little bit of money coming in but am suspicious of what agency actually
uses donations for something other than TV advertizing to get more
donations. With your experience, who do you consider a charitable
organization that efficiently uses donations to help people? o_O

TDD
Without a doubt one of the top agencies as far as effectiveness and
proper ethical use of funds is the Mennonite Central Committee.

In the USA they are located at:

Mennonite Central Committee
21 S 12th St, Akron, PA, United States
+1 717-859-1151

More information at mcc.org. Although they are a Christian
organization, directly connected to the Mennonite and Brethren in
Christ denominations, the MCC is a relief and development agency - not
a mission agency - although, being a christian organization,
everything is done in the name of Christ and to his glory.
If that bothers anyone, I'm sorry. Sorry it bothers you - not sorry
to be a part of the organization and it's supporting churches.


Heck, I don't care if I help a church group who's faith I don't share.
All I care about is whether or not they're good nice people and any of
the Mennonites I've ever met gave me the impression that they were good
folks. I've always told anyone who tells me they're a good Christian,
"Don't tell me how good you are, show me how good you are." ^_^

Interesting note, I've never seen a flashy TV or print ad for The
Mennonite Central Committee. Funny how that works. o_O

TDD

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:19:33 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

I saw it on the Interweb so it must be true about the civilian
concentration camps in The United States. ^_^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...ution,_El_Reno

TDD

The federal population:

Total Federal Inmates: 219,003 (Last updated on June 13, 2013 )
The weekly population report is generated every Thursday at 12:00 a.m.

Back is '79, the population was ~52,000.

The concentration camp victims has increased

http://www.bop.gov/locations/weekly_report.jsp

The agency now (budget request for next fiscal year) will be 25% of
the DOJ budget.

On 6/18/2013 1:41 PM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:19:33 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

I saw it on the Interweb so it must be true about the civilian
concentration camps in The United States. ^_^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...ution,_El_Reno

TDD

The federal population:

Total Federal Inmates: 219,003 (Last updated on June 13, 2013 )
The weekly population report is generated every Thursday at 12:00 a.m.

Back is '79, the population was ~52,000.

The concentration camp victims has increased

http://www.bop.gov/locations/weekly_report.jsp

The agency now (budget request for next fiscal year) will be 25% of
the DOJ budget.


That's more folks than live in some states or even some small countries. o_O

TDD

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 19:15:40 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:


"Oren" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 23:11:30 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 17, 1:32 am, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:17:01 -0400, wrote:
Yes, development in Africa is a vairy difficult subject - if it
wasn't, not everybody who has tried in the past would have failed as
dismally as they have - but progress is being made - one step at a
time.

I think, along the Congo, natives regretted not killing Livingstone
& Stanley ?

Since Livingstone never traveled on the Congo they wouldn't have had
the chance.

His was at the headwaters of the Congo.

But then you always come up with fiction.

Stanley was an American who spent time shooting negros, in Africa
sport he was no doubt accustomed to.

Stanley was not an American. He was born in Wales, died in London.

So. A British explorer "who spent time shooting negros, in Africa
sport he was no doubt accustomed to."

"But then you always come up with fiction."

American enough to fight in the civil war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_M...ry.2C_new_name

As American as Arnie.


Idiot! Many people fought in the Civil War, that were not Americans.
Not ONLY was he a redcoat devil, he became a "Galvanized Yankee"!

So it was Stanley (British) that you claimed was an American
"shooting" Negroes for "sport". A blatant lie that he was American.

You need a mental evaluation.

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 19:09:16 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:

You believe everything you see on the internet???

So which bit isn't true?


The postings from you harry. Once you tried to pawn off an article
from The Onion and claimed it was the truth. Did you forget?

Now, that gets me thinking....

http://www.sianews.com/modules.php?n...ticle&sid=1062
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message ...

I saw it on the Interweb so it must be true about the civilian
concentration camps in The United States. ^_^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...ution,_El_Reno

TDD

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:50:30 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/18/2013 1:41 PM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:19:33 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

I saw it on the Interweb so it must be true about the civilian
concentration camps in The United States. ^_^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...ution,_El_Reno

TDD

The federal population:

Total Federal Inmates: 219,003 (Last updated on June 13, 2013 )
The weekly population report is generated every Thursday at 12:00 a.m.

Back is '79, the population was ~52,000.

The concentration camp victims has increased

http://www.bop.gov/locations/weekly_report.jsp

The agency now (budget request for next fiscal year) will be 25% of
the DOJ budget.


That's more folks than live in some states or even some small countries. o_O

TDD

You are about to a get a new facility in 'Bama.

FCI Aliceville (medium security institution for female inmates).

This facility is located northwest of the town of Aliceville, Alabama,
approximately 55 miles southwest of Tuscaloosa and 35 miles southeast
of Columbus, MS.

Hiring: This institution is currently undergoing the activation
process.

http://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/ali/index.jsp

I bet good money some of those local boys "**** themselves out of a
good job". Wanna bet?

Oren wrote:

Now we learn your gestapo is spying on all your/our emails and
telephone convesations.


Monitoring communications goes back the WWI or WWII. But what would
know.


The Second War of Independence was the first in which electronic
communications were spied upon. Both the Union and Confederate forces
monitored telegraphic communications of their adversary during the Recent
Unpleasantness.

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:11:11 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/18/2013 12:12 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 22:54:23 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/17/2013 9:08 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 19:15:47 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/17/2013 3:34 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:22:42 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 5:41 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:00:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:




I wonder how far $100 million would go helping rural African medical
clinics keeping "The Children" alive and preventing them from going
blind by providing proper nutrition for the little tykes? Gosh, I
imagine there are a lot of things $100 million could help fix like the
storm damage done to the various communities around the U.S. o_O

TDD

You could feed a million Africans for a few months, but that would
spoil the First Family Vacation.

OTOH, I've read that food aid is spoiling in warehouses in some
countries where the corrupt government is not allowing distribution or
is selling it on the black market.


It's a real shame when folks try to help the unfortunate but the despots
and warlords who have seized control of those impoverished countries
take all the relief supplies for themselves. It's one of those
situations where your political beliefs may tell you not to interfere
with the government of other countries but your conscience
tells you to kick somebody's ass for what they're doing to helpless
people, especially children. o_O

TDD
Another problem with food aid is when cheap or free food is brought in
from outside it kills the market for locally grown food when there IS
a good crop - so the small farmer gets nothing for his cash crops and
cannot afford to buy anything from anyone else.

When the small farmer can't get anything for his rice because the
market has been flooded with free USAID rice shipped in from
where-ever, he soon cannot afford to grow rice any more, so now the
food shortage is even worse.

Food aid only when necessary, and help and education to allow the
locals to grow and produce their own food, or to earn the money to buy
food, is MUCH more effective.

Transportation is also a problem. Both for locally produced food and
for foof aid. The food grows after the rainy season - and the roads
are washed out by the rains to the point you cannot get trucks through
to pick up the crops to move them to market. Then the food aid comes
in, and the locals are out of food - the neew crop has not grown yet -
and the roads are impassible to deliver the food aid to where it is
needed..

It's a WHOLE LOT more complex than most who only see it from this side
of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
deeper than that.

African development is a very DIFFICULT subject. Much moreso than even
south American, central American, or Asian development - all of which
have their own issues.

You need to see the situation from within to even BEGIN to understand
it.


So it is the White Mans fault after all. It's a conspiracy to keep The
Africans enslaved. I suppose Whitey is afraid of a strong Sub-Saharan
Africa so all the charity and religious relief agencies are being used
to keep The Black Man down. They're not there to help even though they
truly believe they're doing God's work. They're a tool of the evil
multinational corporations which wish to steal Sub-Saharan Africa from
the people who own it. Darn, we must let all the church groups know the
truth so they can stop what they're doing. o_O

TDD
That is NOT what I said - and you know it.


Sorry, I was being ironic, no insult meant but I am disgusted with the
rampant stupidity of those thinking they are really helping. There are
some wonderful caring folks who do their best to save people in a bad
situation but often cause trouble out of ignorance of the way things
work and the way people think. In some areas of the world, a person's
prized possession and something they may risk their life to protect is
something as insignificant as a blanket. Insignificant to people in the
wealthy developed countries but a priceless object to our Third World
friend. o_O

TDD
That's the kind of thing my daughter is trying to address and remedy
in the projects she is involved with and the work she is doing in her
Master's degree in International Development.


Your daughter is one of those rare angels. I would guess you're proud of
her. ^_^

TDD
Proud of both of them, actually. My youngest had given up nn school -
didn't know what she wanted to do - or what she would want to study if
she went on to college. She got a summer job after grade 11 at the
neighbour's insurance brokerage, and kept working through grade 12 -
and on for12 years now - has all of her insurance credentials and is
assistant operations manager now - on a good path towards partnership
in the future if she wants to.
I see her just about every morning as I look after all the IT stuff
at the office where she works.

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 19:12:12 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 23:06:50 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/17/2013 9:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 20:04:48 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:18 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are
plastic,
modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type
aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.
Without a doubt one of the top agencies as far as effectiveness and
proper ethical use of funds is the Mennonite Central Committee.

In the USA they are located at:

Mennonite Central Committee
21 S 12th St, Akron, PA, United States
+1 717-859-1151

More information at mcc.org. Although they are a Christian
organization, directly connected to the Mennonite and Brethren in
Christ denominations, the MCC is a relief and development agency - not
a mission agency - although, being a christian organization,
everything is done in the name of Christ and to his glory.
If that bothers anyone, I'm sorry. Sorry it bothers you - not sorry
to be a part of the organization and it's supporting churches.

Ah. You get help ifyou gototheir church.
Immoral, it should be unconditional.

No, you get help period. In many cases there is no "church". It IS
unconditional. Doesn't matter if you are Hindu, Muslim, Amamist, or a
total heathen with no concept of a God or religion.. If the need is
there, they are there.

Mennonite Disater Service works the same way.
They are still hard at work in New Orleans and can be found helping
out after just about any major disaster in North America. A separate,
but related organization.

After the floods in the Appalachians back in the seventies or
thereabouts there were volunteers cleaning up in Elmira and Corning
New York areas and in Kentucky for over 2 years..

After tornados in southern Ontario, I was on a cleanup crew for
several days near Woodstock - the crew was busy there for several
weeks.

They are currently on the ground in Shawnee Oklahoma., Bastop Texas,
Birmingham Ala, Braithwaite La, Crisfield Md, Cordova Al, Far Rockaway
NY, Joplin Mo, Minot ND, Staten Island NY, and West Liberty Ky. as
well.

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 18:59:20 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Oren wrote:

Now we learn your gestapo is spying on all your/our emails and
telephone convesations.


Monitoring communications goes back the WWI or WWII. But what would
know.


The Second War of Independence was the first in which electronic
communications were spied upon. Both the Union and Confederate forces
monitored telegraphic communications of their adversary during the Recent
Unpleasantness.


Yes. I was trying not to confuse harry. Forgive me.

The last official telegram will be sent on July 14th.

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 14:26:42 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Do you think the stick figures in Africa can learn
factory skills? It's a bit different than hunter
gatherer skills of thier tradition.
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org

Not only do I THINK they can = I KNOW they can.

They can learn to be excellent mechanics and machinists as well. I
tault 35 mechanics - and of those 35, I am sure at least 20 turned ito
quite adequate mechanics. Compare that to my 4 classes of Canadian
kids taking Auto Mechanics - 10 to 20 in each class - total of 55
kids - only about 4 of whom I give any chance of ever making it as a
mechanic.

You chould see some of the contraptions the kids come up with - toy
trucks made out of fense wire and scrap iron that would make your head
spin - and model motorcycles and airplanes made out of discarded drink
cans and wire clothes hangars. Stuff your American kids wouldn't have
a CLUE how to make - and this is kids with NO technical education.

If we can produce a generation of African youth who do not suffer from
childhood malnutrition, chronic Malaria and Bilharzia, and get them a
decent education, they could turn their world on end.

But to do that, we need to get a generation of those same kids into
positions of responsibility and power, to root out the curruption of
their forfathers, and provide a stable environment for growth and
development. We need to also educate them on conservation principals
to make the best use of the limitted water supplies they have for
agriculture.

Look up "east africa sand dams" for one very successful project.
.
wrote in message ...


There is no point in supporting this ever increasing population, we
are headed for mega-disaster.

Unless they can be taught how to support themselves. Africa is the
next China or Japan or Korea or India as far as being a large supply
of low cost labour to manufacture all the things Britts and Yanks and
Canuks, (and increasingly, Chinese and Indians) want to buy for low
prices.

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 14:29:27 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I'd put Mexico also on my list of places not to visit.
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
.
wrote in message ...
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 09:08:27 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Ah, health problems. I dumped Lenny after he got
me sick three times in a couple months. Twice off
a sick kid, and once when he fed me a salmonella
burger that he knew good and well was tainted.

Part of the reason I don't go to Africa, I can't be
getting sick like that. I've heard that Africa is host
to a wide variety of diseases, in larg part because
they don't understand microbes.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

You can get just as sick, just as fast, in Mexico

If you stay away from anywhere you might possibly get sick you are
going to have a hard time finding a place with enough square footage
to even stand up, Stormy. And you better not EVER go to bed. Don't
you know more Americans die in BED than anywhere else?????

I've travelled in Mexico. Almost 40 years ago. No great desire to go
back - but more because of the political situation and general
lawlessness in most of the country. And you think Africa is
corrupt?????

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:36:26 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/18/2013 12:19 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 23:06:50 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/17/2013 9:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 20:04:48 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:18 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.

Educating them is definitely helping.

I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.


I salute you and your family for trying to help those poor folks in such
a bad situation. The people who really help are few and far between and
that's a real shame. If I ever start to feel sorry for myself, all I
have to do is remember the folks around the world who's
lives are so much harder than my own. I know that if I resided in one
of those Third World countries, I would have been dead long ago. The
nurse called today with news of a new pain medication they want me to
try. I wouldn't have access to such medical care in a third world
country and I would suffer a lot worse fate. o_O

TDD
Even something as common ad diabetes is pretty much a death sentance
for most. It's not a good situation even for "whitey" with diabetes.

Chronic malaria, Bilharzia, and malnutrition means many have 3 strikes
against them before they reach age 5 (if they do). And that's not
including what is in the drinking water.

Sanitation is another serious issue - building proper privies AND
wells in Wast Africa would make a huge difference in human health.
In East Africa and Central Africa the general higene seamed a lot
better.

On my trip last spring to the Mediteranean, North Africa, and the
Canary Islands I think the worst conditions I ran across were in
Marseille France - worse than Cassablanca - and some parts of
Cassablanca were pretty rough. We saw the "underbelly" of Cassablanca
from a mini-taxi we hired to take us around the city most tourists
don't get to see - parts of the "old city" where even a minibus would
not get through. Very Arab - yet also very African


I believe the thing that would save a lot of children is clean potable
water. I remember seeing a video of relief agencies setting up medical
clinics for children in order to give them a mega dose of vitamins to
keep the infants from going blind. I can't physically do anything like
travel to those areas of the world to help those folks and I have a
little bit of money coming in but am suspicious of what agency actually
uses donations for something other than TV advertizing to get more
donations. With your experience, who do you consider a charitable
organization that efficiently uses donations to help people? o_O

TDD
Without a doubt one of the top agencies as far as effectiveness and
proper ethical use of funds is the Mennonite Central Committee.

In the USA they are located at:

Mennonite Central Committee
21 S 12th St, Akron, PA, United States
+1 717-859-1151

More information at mcc.org. Although they are a Christian
organization, directly connected to the Mennonite and Brethren in
Christ denominations, the MCC is a relief and development agency - not
a mission agency - although, being a christian organization,
everything is done in the name of Christ and to his glory.
If that bothers anyone, I'm sorry. Sorry it bothers you - not sorry
to be a part of the organization and it's supporting churches.


Heck, I don't care if I help a church group who's faith I don't share.
All I care about is whether or not they're good nice people and any of
the Mennonites I've ever met gave me the impression that they were good
folks. I've always told anyone who tells me they're a good Christian,
"Don't tell me how good you are, show me how good you are." ^_^

Interesting note, I've never seen a flashy TV or print ad for The
Mennonite Central Committee. Funny how that works. o_O

TDD
They don't need to advertise.
I generally don't talk about religion or my beliefs on the forums. In
general it is counterproductive - but I was born and raised in a
Christian home, of swiss german mennonite ancestry (8th generation
North American), and raised in the mennonite church. That doesn't make
me any better than anyone else, but it is a large part of who I am.
ANd I'm not ashamed of it.

I just don't feel I have to advertise it. It is not so much what or
who I am, as it is what has made me what and who I am.

Not perfect ( as anyone who knows me at all can attest) but a work in
progress - "but for the grace of God. . . . . . "

On 6/18/2013 7:11 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:11:11 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/18/2013 12:12 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 22:54:23 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/17/2013 9:08 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 19:15:47 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/17/2013 3:34 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:22:42 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 5:41 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:00:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:




I wonder how far $100 million would go helping rural African medical
clinics keeping "The Children" alive and preventing them from going
blind by providing proper nutrition for the little tykes? Gosh, I
imagine there are a lot of things $100 million could help fix like the
storm damage done to the various communities around the U.S. o_O

TDD

You could feed a million Africans for a few months, but that would
spoil the First Family Vacation.

OTOH, I've read that food aid is spoiling in warehouses in some
countries where the corrupt government is not allowing distribution or
is selling it on the black market.


It's a real shame when folks try to help the unfortunate but the despots
and warlords who have seized control of those impoverished countries
take all the relief supplies for themselves. It's one of those
situations where your political beliefs may tell you not to interfere
with the government of other countries but your conscience
tells you to kick somebody's ass for what they're doing to helpless
people, especially children. o_O

TDD
Another problem with food aid is when cheap or free food is brought in
from outside it kills the market for locally grown food when there IS
a good crop - so the small farmer gets nothing for his cash crops and
cannot afford to buy anything from anyone else.

When the small farmer can't get anything for his rice because the
market has been flooded with free USAID rice shipped in from
where-ever, he soon cannot afford to grow rice any more, so now the
food shortage is even worse.

Food aid only when necessary, and help and education to allow the
locals to grow and produce their own food, or to earn the money to buy
food, is MUCH more effective.

Transportation is also a problem. Both for locally produced food and
for foof aid. The food grows after the rainy season - and the roads
are washed out by the rains to the point you cannot get trucks through
to pick up the crops to move them to market. Then the food aid comes
in, and the locals are out of food - the neew crop has not grown yet -
and the roads are impassible to deliver the food aid to where it is
needed..

It's a WHOLE LOT more complex than most who only see it from this side
of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
deeper than that.

African development is a very DIFFICULT subject. Much moreso than even
south American, central American, or Asian development - all of which
have their own issues.

You need to see the situation from within to even BEGIN to understand
it.


So it is the White Mans fault after all. It's a conspiracy to keep The
Africans enslaved. I suppose Whitey is afraid of a strong Sub-Saharan
Africa so all the charity and religious relief agencies are being used
to keep The Black Man down. They're not there to help even though they
truly believe they're doing God's work. They're a tool of the evil
multinational corporations which wish to steal Sub-Saharan Africa from
the people who own it. Darn, we must let all the church groups know the
truth so they can stop what they're doing. o_O

TDD
That is NOT what I said - and you know it.


Sorry, I was being ironic, no insult meant but I am disgusted with the
rampant stupidity of those thinking they are really helping. There are
some wonderful caring folks who do their best to save people in a bad
situation but often cause trouble out of ignorance of the way things
work and the way people think. In some areas of the world, a person's
prized possession and something they may risk their life to protect is
something as insignificant as a blanket. Insignificant to people in the
wealthy developed countries but a priceless object to our Third World
friend. o_O

TDD
That's the kind of thing my daughter is trying to address and remedy
in the projects she is involved with and the work she is doing in her
Master's degree in International Development.


Your daughter is one of those rare angels. I would guess you're proud of
her. ^_^

TDD
Proud of both of them, actually. My youngest had given up nn school -
didn't know what she wanted to do - or what she would want to study if
she went on to college. She got a summer job after grade 11 at the
neighbour's insurance brokerage, and kept working through grade 12 -
and on for12 years now - has all of her insurance credentials and is
assistant operations manager now - on a good path towards partnership
in the future if she wants to.
I see her just about every morning as I look after all the IT stuff
at the office where she works.


I have no children that I know of but I've been adopted by a passel of
them. I have an almost daughter aged 40, she adopted me when she was 6
months old. I was dating her mother when I met the rug rat and the
munchkin crawled over to me, climbed up in my lap and claimed me. I
almost married her mother and would have except for one thing, I
couldn't stand her or more correctly, I couldn't stand her bad habits.
She smoked, drank alcohol and smoked dope. I've never touched any of
that stuff and my gal called me a health nut before it became
fashionable. She finally married a fellow with the same bad habits and I
was at the wedding with folks thinking I was the little girl's uncle
because of the way she was hanging off of me, she was about 5 at the
time. Anyway, the guy my gal pal married is a nice guy. I'm going to
have to look them up to see how they're doing since I moved away to
another city 35 years ago. ^_^

TDD

On 6/18/2013 6:16 PM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:50:30 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/18/2013 1:41 PM, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:19:33 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

I saw it on the Interweb so it must be true about the civilian
concentration camps in The United States. ^_^

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa...ution,_El_Reno

TDD

The federal population:

Total Federal Inmates: 219,003 (Last updated on June 13, 2013 )
The weekly population report is generated every Thursday at 12:00 a.m.

Back is '79, the population was ~52,000.

The concentration camp victims has increased

http://www.bop.gov/locations/weekly_report.jsp

The agency now (budget request for next fiscal year) will be 25% of
the DOJ budget.


That's more folks than live in some states or even some small countries. o_O

TDD

You are about to a get a new facility in 'Bama.

FCI Aliceville (medium security institution for female inmates).

This facility is located northwest of the town of Aliceville, Alabama,
approximately 55 miles southwest of Tuscaloosa and 35 miles southeast
of Columbus, MS.

Hiring: This institution is currently undergoing the activation
process.

http://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/ali/index.jsp

I bet good money some of those local boys "**** themselves out of a
good job". Wanna bet?


Well, what happens if the guys hired are lesbians? ^_^

TDD

On 6/18/2013 7:44 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:36:26 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/18/2013 12:19 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 23:06:50 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/17/2013 9:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 20:04:48 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:18 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.

Educating them is definitely helping.

I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.


I salute you and your family for trying to help those poor folks in such
a bad situation. The people who really help are few and far between and
that's a real shame. If I ever start to feel sorry for myself, all I
have to do is remember the folks around the world who's
lives are so much harder than my own. I know that if I resided in one
of those Third World countries, I would have been dead long ago. The
nurse called today with news of a new pain medication they want me to
try. I wouldn't have access to such medical care in a third world
country and I would suffer a lot worse fate. o_O

TDD
Even something as common ad diabetes is pretty much a death sentance
for most. It's not a good situation even for "whitey" with diabetes.

Chronic malaria, Bilharzia, and malnutrition means many have 3 strikes
against them before they reach age 5 (if they do). And that's not
including what is in the drinking water.

Sanitation is another serious issue - building proper privies AND
wells in Wast Africa would make a huge difference in human health.
In East Africa and Central Africa the general higene seamed a lot
better.

On my trip last spring to the Mediteranean, North Africa, and the
Canary Islands I think the worst conditions I ran across were in
Marseille France - worse than Cassablanca - and some parts of
Cassablanca were pretty rough. We saw the "underbelly" of Cassablanca
from a mini-taxi we hired to take us around the city most tourists
don't get to see - parts of the "old city" where even a minibus would
not get through. Very Arab - yet also very African


I believe the thing that would save a lot of children is clean potable
water. I remember seeing a video of relief agencies setting up medical
clinics for children in order to give them a mega dose of vitamins to
keep the infants from going blind. I can't physically do anything like
travel to those areas of the world to help those folks and I have a
little bit of money coming in but am suspicious of what agency actually
uses donations for something other than TV advertizing to get more
donations. With your experience, who do you consider a charitable
organization that efficiently uses donations to help people? o_O

TDD
Without a doubt one of the top agencies as far as effectiveness and
proper ethical use of funds is the Mennonite Central Committee.

In the USA they are located at:

Mennonite Central Committee
21 S 12th St, Akron, PA, United States
+1 717-859-1151

More information at mcc.org. Although they are a Christian
organization, directly connected to the Mennonite and Brethren in
Christ denominations, the MCC is a relief and development agency - not
a mission agency - although, being a christian organization,
everything is done in the name of Christ and to his glory.
If that bothers anyone, I'm sorry. Sorry it bothers you - not sorry
to be a part of the organization and it's supporting churches.


Heck, I don't care if I help a church group who's faith I don't share.
All I care about is whether or not they're good nice people and any of
the Mennonites I've ever met gave me the impression that they were good
folks. I've always told anyone who tells me they're a good Christian,
"Don't tell me how good you are, show me how good you are." ^_^

Interesting note, I've never seen a flashy TV or print ad for The
Mennonite Central Committee. Funny how that works. o_O

TDD
They don't need to advertise.
I generally don't talk about religion or my beliefs on the forums. In
general it is counterproductive - but I was born and raised in a
Christian home, of swiss german mennonite ancestry (8th generation
North American), and raised in the mennonite church. That doesn't make
me any better than anyone else, but it is a large part of who I am.
ANd I'm not ashamed of it.

I just don't feel I have to advertise it. It is not so much what or
who I am, as it is what has made me what and who I am.

Not perfect ( as anyone who knows me at all can attest) but a work in
progress - "but for the grace of God. . . . . . "


As far as I know there are no Mennonites in my immediate family but
there are Roman Catholics, Jews and outer space aliens on one side
and Southern Baptists, Methodist, Druids and a bunch who live in caves
worshiping some sort of fungus that glows in the dark on the other side.
The last bunch are Cavebillies who never evolved into Hillbillies moving
out of the caves and into manufactured housing and living ON the hills
instead of IN them. I'm everyone's cousin because Italians and
Hillbillies will mate with anything so my kin have probably nailed a
Mennonite sometime so we are probably cousins too. ^_^

TDD

Based on what you describe, there would be a population explosion if the relief agencies were effective. For example, 8 kids grow to adulthood instead of 3?
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
wrote in message ...


An African woman in , say, Burkina Faso may have 8 children, of which
5 survive past Age 2, and 3 reach adulthood to be able to support her
in her old age. Large families in Africa are NOT that common - unless
you count the families of the MEN, who like in your religous
backround, have many wives - they may father 30 or 40, of which 25
survive past age 2, and 12 to 15 reach adulthood.

Sounds like the neighbors recognized her potential, and gave her a chance at success. They are to be congratulated, also. Of course, your daughter has the talent and the potential.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
wrote in message ...
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 13:11:11 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/18/2013 12:12 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 22:54:23 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/17/2013 9:08 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 19:15:47 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/17/2013 3:34 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:22:42 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 5:41 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:00:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:




I wonder how far $100 million would go helping rural African medical
clinics keeping "The Children" alive and preventing them from going
blind by providing proper nutrition for the little tykes? Gosh, I
imagine there are a lot of things $100 million could help fix like the
storm damage done to the various communities around the U.S. o_O

TDD

You could feed a million Africans for a few months, but that would
spoil the First Family Vacation.

OTOH, I've read that food aid is spoiling in warehouses in some
countries where the corrupt government is not allowing distribution or
is selling it on the black market.


It's a real shame when folks try to help the unfortunate but the despots
and warlords who have seized control of those impoverished countries
take all the relief supplies for themselves. It's one of those
situations where your political beliefs may tell you not to interfere
with the government of other countries but your conscience
tells you to kick somebody's ass for what they're doing to helpless
people, especially children. o_O

TDD
Another problem with food aid is when cheap or free food is brought in
from outside it kills the market for locally grown food when there IS
a good crop - so the small farmer gets nothing for his cash crops and
cannot afford to buy anything from anyone else.

When the small farmer can't get anything for his rice because the
market has been flooded with free USAID rice shipped in from
where-ever, he soon cannot afford to grow rice any more, so now the
food shortage is even worse.

Food aid only when necessary, and help and education to allow the
locals to grow and produce their own food, or to earn the money to buy
food, is MUCH more effective.

Transportation is also a problem. Both for locally produced food and
for foof aid. The food grows after the rainy season - and the roads
are washed out by the rains to the point you cannot get trucks through
to pick up the crops to move them to market. Then the food aid comes
in, and the locals are out of food - the neew crop has not grown yet -
and the roads are impassible to deliver the food aid to where it is
needed..

It's a WHOLE LOT more complex than most who only see it from this side
of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
deeper than that.

African development is a very DIFFICULT subject. Much moreso than even
south American, central American, or Asian development - all of which
have their own issues.

You need to see the situation from within to even BEGIN to understand
it.



THE BELGIAN CORPORAL
By Neal Knox

In the summer of 1955, I was a young Texas
National Guard sergeant on active duty at Fort Sill,
Oklahoma. A corporal in my squad was aBelgian-
American named Charles DeNaer. An old man as
far as most of us were concerned, being well over
thirty, Charley commanded a certain amount of our
respect, for not only was he older than the rest of
us, he had lived in Belgium when the Germans rolled
across the low countries by-passing the Maginot Line
on their way into France. He had seen war.

One soft Oklahoma afternoon, sitting on a bunk in
the half-light of an old wooden barracks, he told
me his story.

In Charley's little town in Belgium, there lived an
old man, a gunsmith. The old man was friendly
with the kids and welcomed them to his shop. He
had once been an armorer to the king of Belgium,
according to Charley. He told us of the wonderful
guns the old man had crafted, using only hand
tools.

There were double shotguns and fine rifles with
beautiful hardwood stocks and gorgeous engraving
and inlay work. Charley liked the old man and
enjoyed looking at the guns. He often did chores
around the shop.

One day the gunsmith sent for Charley. Arriving
at the shop, Charley found the old man carefully
oiling and wrapping guns in oilcloth and paper.
Charley asked what he was doing. The old smith
gestured to a piece of paper on the workbench
and said that an order had come to him to register
all of his guns.

He was to list every gun with a description on a
piece of paper and then to send the paper to the
government. The old man had no intention of
complying with the registration law and had
summoned Charley to help him bury the guns
at a railroad crossing. Charley asked why he
didn't simply comply with the order and keep
the guns. The old man, with tears in his eyes,
replied to the boy, "If I register them, they will
be taken away. "

A year or two later, the blitzkrieg rolled across
the Low Countries. One day not long after, the
war arrived in Charley's town. A squad of German
SS troops banged on the door of a house that
Charley knew well. The family had twin sons
about Charley's age. The twins were his best
friends. The officer displayed a paper describing
a Luger pistol, a relic of the Great War, and
ordered the father to produce it. That old gun
had been lost, stolen, or misplaced sometime
after it had been registered, the father explained.
He did not know where it was.

The officer told the father that he had exactly
fifteen minutes to produce the weapon. The
family turned their home upside down. No
pistol. They returned to the SS officer empty-
handed.

The officer gave an order and soldiers herded
the family outside while other troops called the
entire town out into the square. There on the
town square the SS machine-gunned the entire
family -- father, mother, Charley's two friends,
their older brother and a baby sister.

I will never forget the moment. We were sitting
on the bunk on a Saturday afternoon and Charley
was crying, huge tears rolling down his cheeks,
making silver dollar size splotches on the dusty
barracks floor. That was my conversion from a
casual gun owner to one who was determined to
prevent such a thing from ever happening in
America.

Later that summer, when I had returned home I
went to the president of the West Texas Sportsman's
Club in Abilene and told him I wanted to be on the
legislative committee. He replied that we didn't have
a legislative committee, but that I was now the
chairman.

I, who had never given a thought to gun laws,
have been eyeball deep in the "gun control"
fight ever since.

As the newly-minted Legislative Committee
Chairman of the West Texas Sportsman's club,
I set myself to some research. I had never before
read the Second Amendment, but now noticed
that The American Rifleman published it in its
masthead. I was delighted to learn that the
Constitution prohibited laws like Belgium's.
There was no battle to fight, I thought. We
were covered. I have since learned that the
words about a militia and the right of the people
to keep and bear, while important, mean as much
to a determined enemy as the Maginot line did to
Hitler.

Rather than depend on the Second Amendment
to protect our gun rights, I've learned that we must
protect the Second Amendment and the precious
rights it recognizes.

- ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------
Permission to reprint or post this article in its
entirety is hereby granted provided this credit is
included. Text is available at
www.FirearmsCoalition.org. To receive The
Firearms Coalition's bi-monthly newsletter, The
Knox Hard Corps Report, write to PO Box
3313, Manassas, VA 20108.


So it is the White Mans fault after all. It's a conspiracy to keep The
Africans enslaved. I suppose Whitey is afraid of a strong Sub-Saharan
Africa so all the charity and religious relief agencies are being used
to keep The Black Man down. They're not there to help even though they
truly believe they're doing God's work. They're a tool of the evil
multinational corporations which wish to steal Sub-Saharan Africa from
the people who own it. Darn, we must let all the church groups know the
truth so they can stop what they're doing. o_O

TDD
That is NOT what I said - and you know it.


Sorry, I was being ironic, no insult meant but I am disgusted with the
rampant stupidity of those thinking they are really helping. There are
some wonderful caring folks who do their best to save people in a bad
situation but often cause trouble out of ignorance of the way things
work and the way people think. In some areas of the world, a person's
prized possession and something they may risk their life to protect is
something as insignificant as a blanket. Insignificant to people in the
wealthy developed countries but a priceless object to our Third World
friend. o_O

TDD
That's the kind of thing my daughter is trying to address and remedy
in the projects she is involved with and the work she is doing in her
Master's degree in International Development.


Your daughter is one of those rare angels. I would guess you're proud of
her. ^_^

TDD
Proud of both of them, actually. My youngest had given up nn school -
didn't know what she wanted to do - or what she would want to study if
she went on to college. She got a summer job after grade 11 at the
neighbour's insurance brokerage, and kept working through grade 12 -
and on for12 years now - has all of her insurance credentials and is
assistant operations manager now - on a good path towards partnership
in the future if she wants to.
I see her just about every morning as I look after all the IT stuff
at the office where she works.

Mormons have also been known to go pitch in and help out, without bothering to ask which (if any) church a person attends.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
wrote in message ...
On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 19:12:12 +0100, "harryagain"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 23:06:50 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/17/2013 9:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 20:04:48 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:18 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are
plastic,
modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type
aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

If memory serves, Gretchen posted this challenge on Survival_2004, and
I forwarded it back and forth to the other lists. My sincere thanks to
her for a good idea. And please consider joining her list.
==========================

The great Dollar Store survival challenge!

You are at your day job, which is 18-20 miles away from your home. The
PA system comes on, and announces that there is a terrorist threat,
and that the building and all the vehicles in the parking lot are
under bomb threat. All employees are instructed to leave immediately,
but not to go to their vehicles.

You try to leave and go home, but traffic is completey gridlocked with
wrecked and disabled vehicles, (other companies have been threatened
too). The car, not an option. Unfortunately, that means you can't get
to your bug out bag.

So you are on foot, 18-20 miles from your home and family, and you
need to get back ASAP.

You set out on foot. You have nothing but the clothes on your back,
and the normal random pocket contents.

OK...so now we have the basic scenario in mind. As you're beginning
the long trek home, you pass by a dollar store. You decide to try and
buy what supplies you still can for your long walk home.

It's wintertime, and it's starting to get dark. You shiver as you dig
through your pockets and come up with $15. You enter the dollar store,
to see what you can find. We'll assume the tax rate is zero, you can
buy 15 items.

So get to it, and see what you can get for $15 at the dollar store to
help you get home some dark, cold night.

What did you buy? And why?





Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.
Without a doubt one of the top agencies as far as effectiveness and
proper ethical use of funds is the Mennonite Central Committee.

In the USA they are located at:

Mennonite Central Committee
21 S 12th St, Akron, PA, United States
+1 717-859-1151

More information at mcc.org. Although they are a Christian
organization, directly connected to the Mennonite and Brethren in
Christ denominations, the MCC is a relief and development agency - not
a mission agency - although, being a christian organization,
everything is done in the name of Christ and to his glory.
If that bothers anyone, I'm sorry. Sorry it bothers you - not sorry
to be a part of the organization and it's supporting churches.

Ah. You get help ifyou gototheir church.
Immoral, it should be unconditional.

No, you get help period. In many cases there is no "church". It IS
unconditional. Doesn't matter if you are Hindu, Muslim, Amamist, or a
total heathen with no concept of a God or religion.. If the need is
there, they are there.

Mennonite Disater Service works the same way.
They are still hard at work in New Orleans and can be found helping
out after just about any major disaster in North America. A separate,
but related organization.

After the floods in the Appalachians back in the seventies or
thereabouts there were volunteers cleaning up in Elmira and Corning
New York areas and in Kentucky for over 2 years..

After tornados in southern Ontario, I was on a cleanup crew for
several days near Woodstock - the crew was busy there for several
weeks.

They are currently on the ground in Shawnee Oklahoma., Bastop Texas,
Birmingham Ala, Braithwaite La, Crisfield Md, Cordova Al, Far Rockaway
NY, Joplin Mo, Minot ND, Staten Island NY, and West Liberty Ky. as
well.