On Jun 17, 1:14*am, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry









wrote:
On Jun 15, 8:18*pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. *It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. *The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. *These have obviously been supplied by some type aid..

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.

* Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.

Educating them is definitely helping.

I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.

I have travelled extensively in Africa and other third world
countries.
Africa is a **** hole and getting worse, I have watched it deteriorate
over the years.
As someone else mentioned,the continent is overpopulated.
And your daughter is wasting her time.
The "work" of these do-gooders is entirely counter productive and
destructive to the local economy of these places.
Most of the problems in rural places are actually caused by these
foreign (often religious) nuts.

The aid organisations exist primarily to support themselves, many make
a good living out of money donated by well meaning idiots. Most of
the money is spent on administration, posh hotels for administrators
and bribes. Much is syphoned away through corruption.
So next time you are asked for money for one of these organisations,
DON'T give.
A well known example here.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ying-food.html

On Jun 17, 1:17*am, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:20:09 -0700 (PDT), harry









wrote:
On Jun 15, 10:41*pm, Dan Espen wrote:
Metspitzer writes:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. *It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. *The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. *These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Let's get this straight, you're in a home repair news group and
you want to broach an off topic subject and all you know about
it is "lots of pictures".

Ever "see any pictures" of pumps installed in Africa?
I have.

Here's a pictu

http://www.toonaripost.com/2011/11/w...release-new-re....

I've also seen pictures of modern African cities.
You know they actually have cities full of modern office buildings
in Africa too.

Another pictu

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=271198

They probably don't use hand operated pumps in most of those
buildings.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

You have no clue do you?

--
Dan Espen

You don't either.
Nairobi was built by the British when Kenya was a colony.
Nowadays rapidly going down the tube. A real **** hole.
http://www.kenya-advisor.com/poverty-in-kenya.html

Because the British (and the French and Portugese) just took over and
ran things, instead of teaching the locals how to do things for
themselves.

Yes, development in Africa is a vairy difficult subject - if it
wasn't, not everybody who has tried in the past would have failed as
dismally as they have - but progress is being made - one step at a
time.

Africa is going back to what it was before white men arrived.
Almost there now.
In America the natives were largely exterminated but in Africa they
were not.

On Jun 17, 1:21*am, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 07:59:42 -0700 (PDT), harry









wrote:
On Jun 16, 3:22*pm, "
wrote:
On Jun 16, 3:13*am, harry wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:18*pm, Metspitzer wrote:

I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. *It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. *The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. *These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

Speaking of ignorance, here we have the village idiot blaming
the USA for "intentionally disrupting" Africa. *What exactly have
we done to disrupt Africa? * Send them billions in aid? *Food
for the starving? *What exactly would the purpose be to
"disrupting Africa"? *If they had even half way successful
economies, we wouldn't have to send them aid and they
would be another large continent that could buy products from the
USA, benefitting both them and us. * And as far as actual
involvement in African countries, perhaps you should look
closer to home at the UK and France.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.

And then you top it off with the above. *Good grief, you're an
imbecile.

Well you have sent arms and bombed them.
You have destablised any regime that interfered with UScommercial
purposes.
http://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/u...tion-in-africa...

* And britain did what???????
And France, And Portugal?

Took what they wanted, and when the poing got tough they just buggered
off, leaving their mess behind them.

Britain built the city illustrated.
In America the Indians were murdered, put in concentration camps and
ethnically cleansed.

On Jun 17, 1:32*am, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:17:01 -0400, wrote:
Yes, development in Africa is a vairy difficult subject - if it
wasn't, not everybody who has tried in the past would have failed as
dismally as they have - but progress is being made - one step at a
time.

I think, along the Congo, natives regretted *not killing *Livingstone
& Stanley ?

Since Livingstone never traveled on the Congo they wouldn't have had
the chance.
But then you always come up with fiction.

Stanley was an American who spent time shooting negros, in Africa
sport he was no doubt accustomed to.

On Jun 17, 2:18*am, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 07:59:42 -0700 (PDT), harry

wrote:
Well you have sent arms and bombed them.

Hey Dummy. *The USA fought Erwin Johannes Eugen Rommel, popularly
known as The Desert Fox, was a German Field Marshal in North Africa.

Dad and his brother fought side by side and came home. Dad with a
Purple Heart.

Didn't Rommel whip the Brit's in North Africa?

You always make **** up harry.

Is that so? Full of your usual crap
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Desert_Campaign

On Jun 17, 3:22*am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 6/16/2013 5:41 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:









On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:00:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

I wonder how far $100 million would go helping rural African medical
clinics keeping "The Children" alive and preventing them from going
blind by providing proper nutrition for the little tykes? Gosh, I
imagine there are a lot of things $100 million could help fix like the
storm damage done to the various communities around the U.S. o_O

TDD

You could feed a million Africans for a few months, but that would
spoil the First Family Vacation.

OTOH, I've read that food aid is spoiling in warehouses in some
countries where the corrupt government is not allowing distribution or
is selling it on the black market.

It's a real shame when folks try to help the unfortunate but the despots
and warlords who have seized control of those impoverished countries
take all the relief supplies for themselves. It's one of those
situations where your political beliefs may tell you not to interfere
with the government of other countries but your conscience
tells you to kick somebody's ass for what they're doing to helpless
people, especially children. o_O

TDD

They are best just left to get on with it.

On 6/17/2013 1:21 AM, harry wrote:
On Jun 17, 3:22 am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 6/16/2013 5:41 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:









On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:00:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

I wonder how far $100 million would go helping rural African medical
clinics keeping "The Children" alive and preventing them from going
blind by providing proper nutrition for the little tykes? Gosh, I
imagine there are a lot of things $100 million could help fix like the
storm damage done to the various communities around the U.S. o_O

TDD

You could feed a million Africans for a few months, but that would
spoil the First Family Vacation.

OTOH, I've read that food aid is spoiling in warehouses in some
countries where the corrupt government is not allowing distribution or
is selling it on the black market.

It's a real shame when folks try to help the unfortunate but the despots
and warlords who have seized control of those impoverished countries
take all the relief supplies for themselves. It's one of those
situations where your political beliefs may tell you not to interfere
with the government of other countries but your conscience
tells you to kick somebody's ass for what they're doing to helpless
people, especially children. o_O

TDD

They are best just left to get on with it.


Well, there is the "Don't feed the bears rule." I suppose it applies to
people too. Look at what welfare does which is similar to what happens
in national parks when folks feed the wildlife. o_O

TDD

On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 23:20:53 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

Didn't Rommel whip the Brit's in North Africa?

You always make **** up harry.

Is that so? Full of your usual crap
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Desert_Campaign

That does not mention the Battle of the Kasserine Pass.

Rommel won a tactical victory over the British, US and French forces.

So you did get whipped.

On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 23:11:30 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 17, 1:32*am, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:17:01 -0400, wrote:
Yes, development in Africa is a vairy difficult subject - if it
wasn't, not everybody who has tried in the past would have failed as
dismally as they have - but progress is being made - one step at a
time.

I think, along the Congo, natives regretted *not killing *Livingstone
& Stanley ?

Since Livingstone never traveled on the Congo they wouldn't have had
the chance.

His was at the headwaters of the Congo.

But then you always come up with fiction.

Stanley was an American who spent time shooting negros, in Africa
sport he was no doubt accustomed to.

Stanley was not an American. He was born in Wales, died in London.

So. A British explorer "who spent time shooting negros, in Africa
sport he was no doubt accustomed to."

"But then you always come up with fiction."

On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:22:42 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 5:41 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:00:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:




I wonder how far $100 million would go helping rural African medical
clinics keeping "The Children" alive and preventing them from going
blind by providing proper nutrition for the little tykes? Gosh, I
imagine there are a lot of things $100 million could help fix like the
storm damage done to the various communities around the U.S. o_O

TDD

You could feed a million Africans for a few months, but that would
spoil the First Family Vacation.

OTOH, I've read that food aid is spoiling in warehouses in some
countries where the corrupt government is not allowing distribution or
is selling it on the black market.


It's a real shame when folks try to help the unfortunate but the despots
and warlords who have seized control of those impoverished countries
take all the relief supplies for themselves. It's one of those
situations where your political beliefs may tell you not to interfere
with the government of other countries but your conscience
tells you to kick somebody's ass for what they're doing to helpless
people, especially children. o_O

TDD
Another problem with food aid is when cheap or free food is brought in
from outside it kills the market for locally grown food when there IS
a good crop - so the small farmer gets nothing for his cash crops and
cannot afford to buy anything from anyone else.

When the small farmer can't get anything for his rice because the
market has been flooded with free USAID rice shipped in from
where-ever, he soon cannot afford to grow rice any more, so now the
food shortage is even worse.

Food aid only when necessary, and help and education to allow the
locals to grow and produce their own food, or to earn the money to buy
food, is MUCH more effective.

Transportation is also a problem. Both for locally produced food and
for foof aid. The food grows after the rainy season - and the roads
are washed out by the rains to the point you cannot get trucks through
to pick up the crops to move them to market. Then the food aid comes
in, and the locals are out of food - the neew crop has not grown yet -
and the roads are impassible to deliver the food aid to where it is
needed..

It's a WHOLE LOT more complex than most who only see it from this side
of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
deeper than that.

African development is a very DIFFICULT subject. Much moreso than even
south American, central American, or Asian development - all of which
have their own issues.

You need to see the situation from within to even BEGIN to understand
it.

On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 22:55:20 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 17, 1:14*am, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry









wrote:
On Jun 15, 8:18*pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. *It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. *The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. *These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.

* Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.

Educating them is definitely helping.

I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.

I have travelled extensively in Africa and other third world
countries.
Africa is a **** hole and getting worse, I have watched it deteriorate
over the years.
As someone else mentioned,the continent is overpopulated.
And your daughter is wasting her time.
The "work" of these do-gooders is entirely counter productive and
destructive to the local economy of these places.

I'll agree that much of what has passed for "aid" and "development"
has been counterproductive.
Most of the problems in rural places are actually caused by these
foreign (often religious) nuts.

The aid organisations exist primarily to support themselves, many make
a good living out of money donated by well meaning idiots. Most of
the money is spent on administration, posh hotels for administrators
and bribes. Much is syphoned away through corruption.
So next time you are asked for money for one of these organisations,
DON'T give.
A well known example here.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ying-food.html
Just be sure that where you put your money is an effective place to
put it. Agencies like Mennonite Central Committee run on a shoestring
- and no money or aid goes anywhere unless they have "boots on the
ground" to monitor what goes where and to be sure it is not
misappropriated.

World vision does a good job too - albeit with higher overhead, since
much is done by "employees" rather than "volunteers". The aim is to
have locals doing the work on the ground in the countries involved.
Teach them to be able to do what needs to be done, and to do it
effectively (proper use of funds, effective use of resources, ethical
dealings, etc)

My daughter will never get rich - if she's lucky she will make a
reasonable income - and yes, many times she wonders if she IS wasting
her time.

I had the same missgivings when I was in Africa (Zambia) 40 years ago.
Was it effective for me to be there teaching when they had their own
people who were capable of teaching - but could make more money
working in private business because I was willing to be there
basically teaching for nothing??? Might it not have been better to
work towards getting their own people involved rather than having Cuso
volunteers do the job? The CIDA funded directors of the program had a
pretty nice gig going that they were not too interested in working
their way out of. Can't complain about sun 9 months of the year,
cheap beer, and a relatively easy expatriate lifestyle, along with a
good salary and "hardship bonus".

For my part, I tried to instill in my students a sense of
responsibility, and a sense of PRIDE - so that they might consider
teaching others - passing on the knowlege they were SO FORTUNATE to
have the opportunity to have provided for them. I have to believe
that at least a few of my 35 students went on to be a positive
influence in their world. After 2 years I came home with empty
pockets, but a lifetime of experiences to look back on.


My later time in Burkina Faso I sometimes also had to wonder if there
was any point to being there. The people group I was involved in had
real trust issues - they didn't trust each other farther than they
could throw each other - and with good reason - as honesty was not a
commodity in great supply. My friends had, by that time, been working
with this group for about 17 years, and had been really questioning if
anything was getting through. While I was there they found out about
some serious duplicity and deciet that was causing serious problems in
the community. They had to leave the community a year or so later, if
for no other reason than to preserve their sanity - although health
was the more significant force. They still had contact and were still
working with the community, although not living in the community.
Going back 10 or more years later, the whole fabric of the village has
changed - they are more trusting and trustworthy - and along with that
they are becoming more self sufficient and prosperous, and more
healthy. They had an influence - and they had to step back and let it
perculate for a while.

On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 22:59:29 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 17, 1:21*am, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 07:59:42 -0700 (PDT), harry









wrote:
On Jun 16, 3:22*pm, "
wrote:
On Jun 16, 3:13*am, harry wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:18*pm, Metspitzer wrote:

I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. *It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. *The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. *These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

Speaking of ignorance, here we have the village idiot blaming
the USA for "intentionally disrupting" Africa. *What exactly have
we done to disrupt Africa? * Send them billions in aid? *Food
for the starving? *What exactly would the purpose be to
"disrupting Africa"? *If they had even half way successful
economies, we wouldn't have to send them aid and they
would be another large continent that could buy products from the
USA, benefitting both them and us. * And as far as actual
involvement in African countries, perhaps you should look
closer to home at the UK and France.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.

And then you top it off with the above. *Good grief, you're an
imbecile.

Well you have sent arms and bombed them.
You have destablised any regime that interfered with UScommercial
purposes.
http://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/u...tion-in-africa...

* And britain did what???????
And France, And Portugal?

Took what they wanted, and when the poing got tough they just buggered
off, leaving their mess behind them.

Britain built the city illustrated.
In America the Indians were murdered, put in concentration camps and
ethnically cleansed.
By the British - who then became Americans.

On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 17:10:53 -0400, wrote:

In America the Indians were murdered, put in concentration camps and
ethnically cleansed.

Murder was not against the law. Killing a hostile injuns was
justified. There were no "concentrations camps". Once an Indian,
always an Indian.

So harry you continue to tell lies, constantly repeating the lies, but
you never give a reference. Show this GROUP where you found this
information.

By the British - who then became Americans.

harry will defend his lies; repeating it in frequent postings...

On 6/17/2013 3:34 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:22:42 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 5:41 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:00:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:




I wonder how far $100 million would go helping rural African medical
clinics keeping "The Children" alive and preventing them from going
blind by providing proper nutrition for the little tykes? Gosh, I
imagine there are a lot of things $100 million could help fix like the
storm damage done to the various communities around the U.S. o_O

TDD

You could feed a million Africans for a few months, but that would
spoil the First Family Vacation.

OTOH, I've read that food aid is spoiling in warehouses in some
countries where the corrupt government is not allowing distribution or
is selling it on the black market.


It's a real shame when folks try to help the unfortunate but the despots
and warlords who have seized control of those impoverished countries
take all the relief supplies for themselves. It's one of those
situations where your political beliefs may tell you not to interfere
with the government of other countries but your conscience
tells you to kick somebody's ass for what they're doing to helpless
people, especially children. o_O

TDD
Another problem with food aid is when cheap or free food is brought in
from outside it kills the market for locally grown food when there IS
a good crop - so the small farmer gets nothing for his cash crops and
cannot afford to buy anything from anyone else.

When the small farmer can't get anything for his rice because the
market has been flooded with free USAID rice shipped in from
where-ever, he soon cannot afford to grow rice any more, so now the
food shortage is even worse.

Food aid only when necessary, and help and education to allow the
locals to grow and produce their own food, or to earn the money to buy
food, is MUCH more effective.

Transportation is also a problem. Both for locally produced food and
for foof aid. The food grows after the rainy season - and the roads
are washed out by the rains to the point you cannot get trucks through
to pick up the crops to move them to market. Then the food aid comes
in, and the locals are out of food - the neew crop has not grown yet -
and the roads are impassible to deliver the food aid to where it is
needed..

It's a WHOLE LOT more complex than most who only see it from this side
of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
deeper than that.

African development is a very DIFFICULT subject. Much moreso than even
south American, central American, or Asian development - all of which
have their own issues.

You need to see the situation from within to even BEGIN to understand
it.


So it is the White Mans fault after all. It's a conspiracy to keep The
Africans enslaved. I suppose Whitey is afraid of a strong Sub-Saharan
Africa so all the charity and religious relief agencies are being used
to keep The Black Man down. They're not there to help even though they
truly believe they're doing God's work. They're a tool of the evil
multinational corporations which wish to steal Sub-Saharan Africa from
the people who own it. Darn, we must let all the church groups know the
truth so they can stop what they're doing. o_O

TDD

On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:18 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.

Educating them is definitely helping.

I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.


I salute you and your family for trying to help those poor folks in such
a bad situation. The people who really help are few and far between and
that's a real shame. If I ever start to feel sorry for myself, all I
have to do is remember the folks around the world who's
lives are so much harder than my own. I know that if I resided in one
of those Third World countries, I would have been dead long ago. The
nurse called today with news of a new pain medication they want me to
try. I wouldn't have access to such medical care in a third world
country and I would suffer a lot worse fate. o_O

TDD

On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 19:15:47 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/17/2013 3:34 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:22:42 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 5:41 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:00:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:




I wonder how far $100 million would go helping rural African medical
clinics keeping "The Children" alive and preventing them from going
blind by providing proper nutrition for the little tykes? Gosh, I
imagine there are a lot of things $100 million could help fix like the
storm damage done to the various communities around the U.S. o_O

TDD

You could feed a million Africans for a few months, but that would
spoil the First Family Vacation.

OTOH, I've read that food aid is spoiling in warehouses in some
countries where the corrupt government is not allowing distribution or
is selling it on the black market.


It's a real shame when folks try to help the unfortunate but the despots
and warlords who have seized control of those impoverished countries
take all the relief supplies for themselves. It's one of those
situations where your political beliefs may tell you not to interfere
with the government of other countries but your conscience
tells you to kick somebody's ass for what they're doing to helpless
people, especially children. o_O

TDD
Another problem with food aid is when cheap or free food is brought in
from outside it kills the market for locally grown food when there IS
a good crop - so the small farmer gets nothing for his cash crops and
cannot afford to buy anything from anyone else.

When the small farmer can't get anything for his rice because the
market has been flooded with free USAID rice shipped in from
where-ever, he soon cannot afford to grow rice any more, so now the
food shortage is even worse.

Food aid only when necessary, and help and education to allow the
locals to grow and produce their own food, or to earn the money to buy
food, is MUCH more effective.

Transportation is also a problem. Both for locally produced food and
for foof aid. The food grows after the rainy season - and the roads
are washed out by the rains to the point you cannot get trucks through
to pick up the crops to move them to market. Then the food aid comes
in, and the locals are out of food - the neew crop has not grown yet -
and the roads are impassible to deliver the food aid to where it is
needed..

It's a WHOLE LOT more complex than most who only see it from this side
of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
deeper than that.

African development is a very DIFFICULT subject. Much moreso than even
south American, central American, or Asian development - all of which
have their own issues.

You need to see the situation from within to even BEGIN to understand
it.


So it is the White Mans fault after all. It's a conspiracy to keep The
Africans enslaved. I suppose Whitey is afraid of a strong Sub-Saharan
Africa so all the charity and religious relief agencies are being used
to keep The Black Man down. They're not there to help even though they
truly believe they're doing God's work. They're a tool of the evil
multinational corporations which wish to steal Sub-Saharan Africa from
the people who own it. Darn, we must let all the church groups know the
truth so they can stop what they're doing. o_O

TDD
That is NOT what I said - and you know it.

On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 20:04:48 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:18 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.

Educating them is definitely helping.

I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.


I salute you and your family for trying to help those poor folks in such
a bad situation. The people who really help are few and far between and
that's a real shame. If I ever start to feel sorry for myself, all I
have to do is remember the folks around the world who's
lives are so much harder than my own. I know that if I resided in one
of those Third World countries, I would have been dead long ago. The
nurse called today with news of a new pain medication they want me to
try. I wouldn't have access to such medical care in a third world
country and I would suffer a lot worse fate. o_O

TDD
Even something as common ad diabetes is pretty much a death sentance
for most. It's not a good situation even for "whitey" with diabetes.

Chronic malaria, Bilharzia, and malnutrition means many have 3 strikes
against them before they reach age 5 (if they do). And that's not
including what is in the drinking water.

Sanitation is another serious issue - building proper privies AND
wells in Wast Africa would make a huge difference in human health.
In East Africa and Central Africa the general higene seamed a lot
better.

On my trip last spring to the Mediteranean, North Africa, and the
Canary Islands I think the worst conditions I ran across were in
Marseille France - worse than Cassablanca - and some parts of
Cassablanca were pretty rough. We saw the "underbelly" of Cassablanca
from a mini-taxi we hired to take us around the city most tourists
don't get to see - parts of the "old city" where even a minibus would
not get through. Very Arab - yet also very African

On 6/17/2013 9:08 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 19:15:47 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/17/2013 3:34 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:22:42 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 5:41 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:00:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:




I wonder how far $100 million would go helping rural African medical
clinics keeping "The Children" alive and preventing them from going
blind by providing proper nutrition for the little tykes? Gosh, I
imagine there are a lot of things $100 million could help fix like the
storm damage done to the various communities around the U.S. o_O

TDD

You could feed a million Africans for a few months, but that would
spoil the First Family Vacation.

OTOH, I've read that food aid is spoiling in warehouses in some
countries where the corrupt government is not allowing distribution or
is selling it on the black market.


It's a real shame when folks try to help the unfortunate but the despots
and warlords who have seized control of those impoverished countries
take all the relief supplies for themselves. It's one of those
situations where your political beliefs may tell you not to interfere
with the government of other countries but your conscience
tells you to kick somebody's ass for what they're doing to helpless
people, especially children. o_O

TDD
Another problem with food aid is when cheap or free food is brought in
from outside it kills the market for locally grown food when there IS
a good crop - so the small farmer gets nothing for his cash crops and
cannot afford to buy anything from anyone else.

When the small farmer can't get anything for his rice because the
market has been flooded with free USAID rice shipped in from
where-ever, he soon cannot afford to grow rice any more, so now the
food shortage is even worse.

Food aid only when necessary, and help and education to allow the
locals to grow and produce their own food, or to earn the money to buy
food, is MUCH more effective.

Transportation is also a problem. Both for locally produced food and
for foof aid. The food grows after the rainy season - and the roads
are washed out by the rains to the point you cannot get trucks through
to pick up the crops to move them to market. Then the food aid comes
in, and the locals are out of food - the neew crop has not grown yet -
and the roads are impassible to deliver the food aid to where it is
needed..

It's a WHOLE LOT more complex than most who only see it from this side
of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
deeper than that.

African development is a very DIFFICULT subject. Much moreso than even
south American, central American, or Asian development - all of which
have their own issues.

You need to see the situation from within to even BEGIN to understand
it.


So it is the White Mans fault after all. It's a conspiracy to keep The
Africans enslaved. I suppose Whitey is afraid of a strong Sub-Saharan
Africa so all the charity and religious relief agencies are being used
to keep The Black Man down. They're not there to help even though they
truly believe they're doing God's work. They're a tool of the evil
multinational corporations which wish to steal Sub-Saharan Africa from
the people who own it. Darn, we must let all the church groups know the
truth so they can stop what they're doing. o_O

TDD
That is NOT what I said - and you know it.


Sorry, I was being ironic, no insult meant but I am disgusted with the
rampant stupidity of those thinking they are really helping. There are
some wonderful caring folks who do their best to save people in a bad
situation but often cause trouble out of ignorance of the way things
work and the way people think. In some areas of the world, a person's
prized possession and something they may risk their life to protect is
something as insignificant as a blanket. Insignificant to people in the
wealthy developed countries but a priceless object to our Third World
friend. o_O

TDD

On 6/17/2013 9:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 20:04:48 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:18 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.

Educating them is definitely helping.

I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.


I salute you and your family for trying to help those poor folks in such
a bad situation. The people who really help are few and far between and
that's a real shame. If I ever start to feel sorry for myself, all I
have to do is remember the folks around the world who's
lives are so much harder than my own. I know that if I resided in one
of those Third World countries, I would have been dead long ago. The
nurse called today with news of a new pain medication they want me to
try. I wouldn't have access to such medical care in a third world
country and I would suffer a lot worse fate. o_O

TDD
Even something as common ad diabetes is pretty much a death sentance
for most. It's not a good situation even for "whitey" with diabetes.

Chronic malaria, Bilharzia, and malnutrition means many have 3 strikes
against them before they reach age 5 (if they do). And that's not
including what is in the drinking water.

Sanitation is another serious issue - building proper privies AND
wells in Wast Africa would make a huge difference in human health.
In East Africa and Central Africa the general higene seamed a lot
better.

On my trip last spring to the Mediteranean, North Africa, and the
Canary Islands I think the worst conditions I ran across were in
Marseille France - worse than Cassablanca - and some parts of
Cassablanca were pretty rough. We saw the "underbelly" of Cassablanca
from a mini-taxi we hired to take us around the city most tourists
don't get to see - parts of the "old city" where even a minibus would
not get through. Very Arab - yet also very African


I believe the thing that would save a lot of children is clean potable
water. I remember seeing a video of relief agencies setting up medical
clinics for children in order to give them a mega dose of vitamins to
keep the infants from going blind. I can't physically do anything like
travel to those areas of the world to help those folks and I have a
little bit of money coming in but am suspicious of what agency actually
uses donations for something other than TV advertizing to get more
donations. With your experience, who do you consider a charitable
organization that efficiently uses donations to help people? o_O

TDD

On Jun 17, 4:54*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 23:11:30 -0700 (PDT), harry

wrote:
On Jun 17, 1:32*am, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:17:01 -0400, wrote:
Yes, development in Africa is a vairy difficult subject - if it
wasn't, not everybody who has tried in the past would have failed as
dismally as they have - but progress is being made - one step at a
time.

I think, along the Congo, natives regretted *not killing *Livingstone
& Stanley ?

Since Livingstone never traveled on the Congo they wouldn't have had
the chance.

His was at the headwaters of the Congo.

But then you always come up with fiction.

Stanley was an American who spent time shooting negros, in Africa
sport he was no doubt accustomed to.

Stanley was not an American. He was born in Wales, died in London.


By that measure there are no Americans except the indians.
The ones left that is after the various massacres.

On Jun 17, 10:09*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 22:55:20 -0700 (PDT), harry









wrote:
On Jun 17, 1:14*am, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry

wrote:
On Jun 15, 8:18*pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. *It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. *The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. *These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.

* Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.

Educating them is definitely helping.

I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.

I have travelled extensively in Africa and other third world
countries.
Africa is a **** hole and getting worse, I have watched it deteriorate
over the years.
As someone else mentioned,the continent is overpopulated.
And your daughter is wasting her time.
The "work" of these do-gooders is entirely counter productive and
destructive to the local economy of these places.

I'll agree that much of what has passed for "aid" and "development"
has been counterproductive.Most of the problems in rural places are actually caused by these
foreign (often religious) nuts.

The aid organisations exist primarily to support themselves, many make
a good living out of money donated by well meaning idiots. *Most of
the money is spent on administration, posh hotels for administrators
and bribes. *Much is syphoned away through corruption.
So next time you are asked for money for one of these organisations,
DON'T give.
A well known example here.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...an-Band-Aid-mo...

* Just be sure that where you put your money is an effective place to
put it. *Agencies like Mennonite Central Committee run on a shoestring
- and no money or aid goes anywhere unless they have "boots on the
ground" to monitor what goes where and to be sure it is not
misappropriated.

World vision does a good job too - albeit with higher overhead, since
much is done by "employees" rather than "volunteers". The aim is to
have locals doing the work on the ground in the countries involved.
Teach them to be able to do what needs to be done, and to do it
effectively (proper use of funds, effective use of resources, ethical
dealings, etc)

My daughter will never get rich - if she's lucky she will make a
reasonable income - and yes, many times she wonders if she IS wasting
her time.

I had the same missgivings when I was in Africa (Zambia) 40 years ago.
Was it effective for me to be there teaching when they had their own
people who were capable of teaching - but could make more money
working in private business because I was willing to be there
basically teaching for nothing??? *Might it not have been better to
work towards getting their own people involved rather than having Cuso
volunteers do the job? *The CIDA funded directors of the program had a
pretty nice gig going that they were not too interested in working
their way out of. *Can't complain about sun 9 months of the year,
cheap beer, and a relatively easy expatriate lifestyle, along with a
good salary and "hardship bonus".

For my part, I tried to instill in my students a sense of
responsibility, and a sense of PRIDE - so that they might consider
teaching others - passing on the knowlege they were SO FORTUNATE to
have the opportunity to have provided for them. *I have to believe
that at least a few of my 35 students went on to be a positive
influence in their world. After 2 years I came home with empty
pockets, but a lifetime of experiences to look back on.

My later time in Burkina Faso I sometimes also had to wonder if there
was any point to being there. The people group I was involved in had
real trust issues - they didn't trust each other farther than they
could throw each other - and with good reason - as honesty was not a
commodity in great supply. My friends had, by that time, been working
with this group for about 17 years, and had been really questioning if
anything was getting through. While I was there they found out about
some serious duplicity and deciet that was causing serious problems in
the community. They had to leave the community a year or so later, if
for no other reason than to preserve their sanity - although health
was the more significant force. *They still had contact and were still
working with the community, although not living in the community.
Going back 10 or more years later, the whole fabric of the village has
changed - they are more trusting and trustworthy - and along with that
they are becoming more self sufficient and prosperous, and more
healthy. They had an influence - and they had to *step back and let it
perculate for a while.

Interesting monologue.
There are huge tracts of ex-farmland in Africa uncultivated because
the farmers can't sell anything they grow due to food aid. So they
give up and go and join the queue for the free hand-outs.
And there is ignorance and incompetence, they are unable to run any
business effectively.

A lot of land has intermitant droughts. The same places cannot support
the population in drought though it can in good rains. So,
overpopulated due to high birth AND survival rates.

There is no point in supporting this ever increasing population, we
are headed for mega-disaster.

The streets in the UK are filled with "Chuggers" (Charity muggers).

They are paid to try to get you to sign up to regular payments for one
charity or another.
At one time we had volunteers on the streets rattling tins for
donations.
Charity is big business over here.

On Jun 17, 11:21*pm, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 17:10:53 -0400, wrote:
In America the Indians were murdered, put in concentration camps and
ethnically cleansed.

Murder was not against the law. Killing a hostile injuns was
justified. There were no "concentrations camps". Once an Indian,
always an Indian.

So harry you continue to tell lies, constantly repeating the lies, but
you never give a reference. Show this GROUP where you found this
information.

*By the British - who then became Americans.

harry will defend his lies; repeating it in frequent postings...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...en ous_People

The USA has always had concentration camps and still has.
More then a hundred throughout the USA and of course one in Cuba.
http://www.greatdreams.com/concentration.htm

You don't even know current events never mind your own history.
I hear you still gas people in some states.
And "W" authorised torture.
Now we learn your gestapo is spying on all your/our emails and
telephone convesations.

The fascist state.

On Jun 18, 1:15*am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 6/17/2013 3:34 PM, wrote:









On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:22:42 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 5:41 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:00:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

I wonder how far $100 million would go helping rural African medical
clinics keeping "The Children" alive and preventing them from going
blind by providing proper nutrition for the little tykes? Gosh, I
imagine there are a lot of things $100 million could help fix like the
storm damage done to the various communities around the U.S. o_O

TDD

You could feed a million Africans for a few months, but that would
spoil the First Family Vacation.

OTOH, I've read that food aid is spoiling in warehouses in some
countries where the corrupt government is not allowing distribution or
is selling it on the black market.

It's a real shame when folks try to help the unfortunate but the despots
and warlords who have seized control of those impoverished countries
take all the relief supplies for themselves. It's one of those
situations where your political beliefs may tell you not to interfere
with the government of other countries but your conscience
tells you to kick somebody's ass for what they're doing to helpless
people, especially children. o_O

TDD
Another problem with food aid is when cheap or free food is brought in
from outside it kills the market for locally grown food when there IS
a good crop - so the small farmer gets nothing for his cash crops and
cannot afford to buy anything from anyone else.

When the small farmer can't get anything for his rice because the
market has been flooded with free USAID rice shipped in from
where-ever, he soon cannot afford to grow rice any more, so now the
food shortage is even worse.

Food aid only when necessary, and help and education to allow the
locals to grow and produce their own food, or to earn the money to buy
food, is MUCH more effective.

Transportation is also a problem. *Both for locally produced food and
for foof aid. The food grows after the rainy season - and the roads
are washed out by the rains to the point you cannot get trucks through
to pick up the crops to move them to market. *Then the food aid comes
in, and the locals are out of food - the neew crop has not grown yet -
and the roads are impassible to deliver the food aid to where it is
needed..

It's a WHOLE LOT more complex than most who only see it from this side
of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
deeper than that.

African development is a very DIFFICULT subject. Much moreso than even
south American, central American, or Asian development - all of which
have their own issues.

You need to see the situation from within to even BEGIN to understand
it.

So it is the White Mans fault after all. It's a conspiracy to keep The
Africans enslaved. I suppose Whitey is afraid of a strong Sub-Saharan
Africa so all the charity and religious relief agencies are being used
to keep The Black Man down. They're not there to help even though they
truly believe they're doing God's work. They're a tool of the evil
multinational corporations which wish to steal Sub-Saharan Africa from
the people who own it. Darn, we must let all the church groups know the
truth so they can stop what they're doing. o_O

TDD

There has always been slavery everywhere and there still is.
Both legal and illegal.
Black people never even discovered the wheel. They became an obvious
target for slave taking.
Most slaves were rounded up by their compatriots and sold on. Some
even sold their own unwanted children

On Jun 18, 2:04*am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, wrote:









On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:18 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. *It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. *The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. *These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
* *Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.

Educating them is definitely helping.

I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.

I salute you and your family for trying to help those poor folks in such
a bad situation. The people who really help are few and far between and
that's a real shame. If I ever start to feel sorry for myself, all I
have to do is remember the folks around the world who's
lives are so much harder than my own. I know that if I resided in one
of those Third World countries, I would have been dead long ago. The
nurse called today with news of a new pain medication they want me to
try. I wouldn't have access to such medical care in a third world
country and I would suffer a lot worse fate. o_O

TDD

There is nothing can be done Duf, it is an insoluble problem.
Interference only makes things worse.

On Jun 18, 3:20*am, wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 20:04:48 -0500, The Daring Dufas









wrote:
On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:18 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. *It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. *The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. *These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
* *Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.

Educating them is definitely helping.

I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.

I salute you and your family for trying to help those poor folks in such
a bad situation. The people who really help are few and far between and
that's a real shame. If I ever start to feel sorry for myself, all I
have to do is remember the folks around the world who's
lives are so much harder than my own. I know that if I resided in one
of those Third World countries, I would have been dead long ago. The
nurse called today with news of a new pain medication they want me to
try. I wouldn't have access to such medical care in a third world
country and I would suffer a lot worse fate. o_O

TDD

Even something as common ad diabetes is pretty much a death sentance
for most. It's not a good situation even for "whitey" with diabetes.

Chronic malaria, Bilharzia, and malnutrition means many have 3 strikes
against them before they reach age 5 (if they do). And that's not
including what is in the drinking water.

Sanitation is another serious issue - building proper privies AND
wells in Wast Africa would make a huge difference in human health.
*In East Africa and Central Africa the general higene seamed a lot
better.

On my trip last spring to the Mediteranean, North Africa, and the
Canary Islands I think the worst conditions I ran across were in
Marseille France - worse than Cassablanca - and some parts of
Cassablanca were pretty rough. We saw the "underbelly" of Cassablanca
from a mini-taxi we hired to take us around the city most tourists
don't get to see - parts of the "old city" where even a minibus would
not get through. Very Arab - yet also very African

Heh Heh.
I have travelled extensively in Morocco. It is now a major European
tourist destination. Think Mexico only less violent/more culture.
For the moment anyway
There are far worse places than Casablanca. And better.
Casablanca is pretty untypical.

On Jun 18, 5:06*am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 6/17/2013 9:20 PM, wrote:









On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 20:04:48 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:18 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. *It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. *The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. *These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
* * Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.

Educating them is definitely helping.

I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.

I salute you and your family for trying to help those poor folks in such
a bad situation. The people who really help are few and far between and
that's a real shame. If I ever start to feel sorry for myself, all I
have to do is remember the folks around the world who's
lives are so much harder than my own. I know that if I resided in one
of those Third World countries, I would have been dead long ago. The
nurse called today with news of a new pain medication they want me to
try. I wouldn't have access to such medical care in a third world
country and I would suffer a lot worse fate. o_O

TDD
Even something as common ad diabetes is pretty much a death sentance
for most. It's not a good situation even for "whitey" with diabetes.

Chronic malaria, Bilharzia, and malnutrition means many have 3 strikes
against them before they reach age 5 (if they do). And that's not
including what is in the drinking water.

Sanitation is another serious issue - building proper privies AND
wells in Wast Africa would make a huge difference in human health.
* In East Africa and Central Africa the general higene seamed a lot
better.

On my trip last spring to the Mediteranean, North Africa, and the
Canary Islands I think the worst conditions I ran across were in
Marseille France - worse than Cassablanca - and some parts of
Cassablanca were pretty rough. We saw the "underbelly" of Cassablanca
from a mini-taxi we hired to take us around the city most tourists
don't get to see - parts of the "old city" where even a minibus would
not get through. Very Arab - yet also very African

I believe the thing that would save a lot of children is clean potable
water. I remember seeing a video of relief agencies setting up medical
clinics for children in order to give them a mega dose of vitamins to
keep the infants from going blind. I can't physically do anything like
travel to those areas of the world to help those folks and I have a
little bit of money coming in but am suspicious of what agency actually
uses donations for something other than TV advertizing to get more
donations. With your experience, who do you consider a charitable
organization that efficiently uses donations to help people? o_O

TDD

You are right to be suspicious Duf. Many of these aid agencies are
just self serving wonks/crooks.
There are probably lots of people in the USA need assistance these
days. You can help them on a personal basis and see where your money
is going.

On 6/18/2013 2:10 AM, harry wrote:
On Jun 18, 1:15 am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 6/17/2013 3:34 PM, wrote:









On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:22:42 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 5:41 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:00:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

I wonder how far $100 million would go helping rural African medical
clinics keeping "The Children" alive and preventing them from going
blind by providing proper nutrition for the little tykes? Gosh, I
imagine there are a lot of things $100 million could help fix like the
storm damage done to the various communities around the U.S. o_O

TDD

You could feed a million Africans for a few months, but that would
spoil the First Family Vacation.

OTOH, I've read that food aid is spoiling in warehouses in some
countries where the corrupt government is not allowing distribution or
is selling it on the black market.

It's a real shame when folks try to help the unfortunate but the despots
and warlords who have seized control of those impoverished countries
take all the relief supplies for themselves. It's one of those
situations where your political beliefs may tell you not to interfere
with the government of other countries but your conscience
tells you to kick somebody's ass for what they're doing to helpless
people, especially children. o_O

TDD
Another problem with food aid is when cheap or free food is brought in
from outside it kills the market for locally grown food when there IS
a good crop - so the small farmer gets nothing for his cash crops and
cannot afford to buy anything from anyone else.

When the small farmer can't get anything for his rice because the
market has been flooded with free USAID rice shipped in from
where-ever, he soon cannot afford to grow rice any more, so now the
food shortage is even worse.

Food aid only when necessary, and help and education to allow the
locals to grow and produce their own food, or to earn the money to buy
food, is MUCH more effective.

Transportation is also a problem. Both for locally produced food and
for foof aid. The food grows after the rainy season - and the roads
are washed out by the rains to the point you cannot get trucks through
to pick up the crops to move them to market. Then the food aid comes
in, and the locals are out of food - the neew crop has not grown yet -
and the roads are impassible to deliver the food aid to where it is
needed..

It's a WHOLE LOT more complex than most who only see it from this side
of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
deeper than that.

African development is a very DIFFICULT subject. Much moreso than even
south American, central American, or Asian development - all of which
have their own issues.

You need to see the situation from within to even BEGIN to understand
it.

So it is the White Mans fault after all. It's a conspiracy to keep The
Africans enslaved. I suppose Whitey is afraid of a strong Sub-Saharan
Africa so all the charity and religious relief agencies are being used
to keep The Black Man down. They're not there to help even though they
truly believe they're doing God's work. They're a tool of the evil
multinational corporations which wish to steal Sub-Saharan Africa from
the people who own it. Darn, we must let all the church groups know the
truth so they can stop what they're doing. o_O

TDD

There has always been slavery everywhere and there still is.
Both legal and illegal.
Black people never even discovered the wheel. They became an obvious
target for slave taking.
Most slaves were rounded up by their compatriots and sold on. Some
even sold their own unwanted children


The ancestors of many of my darker skinned cousins were sold into
slavery by their own people on the coast of West Africa to slave traders
from Europe. The different tribes waring with each other didn't consider
what they were doing with the prisoners they took to be wrong but I
suppose they didn't care as long as their adversaries were out of their
sight for ever. I wonder if the warlords actually knew of the horror
their fellow Africans faced in the dark holds of those slaver's ships? o_O

TDD

On 6/18/2013 2:19 AM, harry wrote:
On Jun 18, 5:06 am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 6/17/2013 9:20 PM, wrote:









On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 20:04:48 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:18 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.

Educating them is definitely helping.

I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.

I salute you and your family for trying to help those poor folks in such
a bad situation. The people who really help are few and far between and
that's a real shame. If I ever start to feel sorry for myself, all I
have to do is remember the folks around the world who's
lives are so much harder than my own. I know that if I resided in one
of those Third World countries, I would have been dead long ago. The
nurse called today with news of a new pain medication they want me to
try. I wouldn't have access to such medical care in a third world
country and I would suffer a lot worse fate. o_O

TDD
Even something as common ad diabetes is pretty much a death sentance
for most. It's not a good situation even for "whitey" with diabetes.

Chronic malaria, Bilharzia, and malnutrition means many have 3 strikes
against them before they reach age 5 (if they do). And that's not
including what is in the drinking water.

Sanitation is another serious issue - building proper privies AND
wells in Wast Africa would make a huge difference in human health.
In East Africa and Central Africa the general higene seamed a lot
better.

On my trip last spring to the Mediteranean, North Africa, and the
Canary Islands I think the worst conditions I ran across were in
Marseille France - worse than Cassablanca - and some parts of
Cassablanca were pretty rough. We saw the "underbelly" of Cassablanca
from a mini-taxi we hired to take us around the city most tourists
don't get to see - parts of the "old city" where even a minibus would
not get through. Very Arab - yet also very African

I believe the thing that would save a lot of children is clean potable
water. I remember seeing a video of relief agencies setting up medical
clinics for children in order to give them a mega dose of vitamins to
keep the infants from going blind. I can't physically do anything like
travel to those areas of the world to help those folks and I have a
little bit of money coming in but am suspicious of what agency actually
uses donations for something other than TV advertizing to get more
donations. With your experience, who do you consider a charitable
organization that efficiently uses donations to help people? o_O

TDD

You are right to be suspicious Duf. Many of these aid agencies are
just self serving wonks/crooks.
There are probably lots of people in the USA need assistance these
days. You can help them on a personal basis and see where your money
is going.


I do help my neighbors and I've done a lot of work for churches. When I
was hospitalized last May, the minister from my friend's church was my
first visitor because I helped repair the AC unit outside their church
after copper thieves cut out the copper lines. I donated time and
materials even though I don't share their faith. They're just nice good
people who have little but help others as much as they can. I suppose
when I help a group of folks like that, I'm helping many others by
proxy. ^_^

TDD

On 6/18/2013 2:12 AM, harry wrote:
On Jun 18, 2:04 am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 6/16/2013 7:14 PM, wrote:









On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:13:55 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 15, 8:18 pm, Metspitzer wrote:
I have seen lots of pictures of Africa. It shows entire towns
carrying water on their heads. The thing that makes me suspicious
about these pictures is that all of the water containers are plastic,
modern plastic. These have obviously been supplied by some type aid.

Why not send some PVC and a pump?

So what are you "suspicious" about?
Have you never been to a third world country?

The containers are scavenged and second hand. The sort of stuff you
throw away every day. Old oil and fertilizer containers etc.

The problem in these countries is ignorance, corruption, political
unrest and violence. They have no proper governance or economies.

And they are intentionally disrupted by the likes of the USA.

There is no solution apart from occupying and running them.
Sounds like a British Colonialist.

Ever lived and worked in Africa, Harry??? Didn't think so. And if you
did you had your head so far up your backside you didn't see anything
going on around you.

Yes, corruption is a large problem Political unrest sprouts from that
- and with it, violence.
Poverty is a bigger problem - some caused by corruption - but much by
circumstances - unreliable rains, famine, etc.

Ignorance can be cured. It's called education. Education can help
alleviate poverty - and also cut down on corruption and unrest.

Occupying and running them has not worked.

Educating them is definitely helping.

I've worked in 2 african countries - my daughter has been actively
working in 3, and is leaving on Wednesday to check on projects in 2
more, where the agency she is working with is actively involved. She
will be in Mali and Mauritania for the next month.

I salute you and your family for trying to help those poor folks in such
a bad situation. The people who really help are few and far between and
that's a real shame. If I ever start to feel sorry for myself, all I
have to do is remember the folks around the world who's
lives are so much harder than my own. I know that if I resided in one
of those Third World countries, I would have been dead long ago. The
nurse called today with news of a new pain medication they want me to
try. I wouldn't have access to such medical care in a third world
country and I would suffer a lot worse fate. o_O

TDD

There is nothing can be done Duf, it is an insoluble problem.
Interference only makes things worse.


I would guess the biggest problem is not understanding the culture and
political situation in those countries with a large population of folks
in desperate situations. I would think the best help is expressed by the
old adage containing the words "Teach a man to fish". I can't feel anger
toward the wonderful caring people who are trying to help but what
happens is often out of their control and the results are not what they
expected. o_O

TDD

Sounds like the situation is a total pain in the ass.
I'm glad you're seeing it from within.

You obviously see things deeper than most.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
wrote in message ...

Another problem with food aid is when cheap or free food is brought in
from outside it kills the market for locally grown food when there IS
a good crop - so the small farmer gets nothing for his cash crops and
cannot afford to buy anything from anyone else.

When the small farmer can't get anything for his rice because the
market has been flooded with free USAID rice shipped in from
where-ever, he soon cannot afford to grow rice any more, so now the
food shortage is even worse.

Food aid only when necessary, and help and education to allow the
locals to grow and produce their own food, or to earn the money to buy
food, is MUCH more effective.

Transportation is also a problem. Both for locally produced food and
for foof aid. The food grows after the rainy season - and the roads
are washed out by the rains to the point you cannot get trucks through
to pick up the crops to move them to market. Then the food aid comes
in, and the locals are out of food - the neew crop has not grown yet -
and the roads are impassible to deliver the food aid to where it is
needed..

It's a WHOLE LOT more complex than most who only see it from this side
of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
deeper than that.

African development is a very DIFFICULT subject. Much moreso than even
south American, central American, or Asian development - all of which
have their own issues.

You need to see the situation from within to even BEGIN to understand
it.

Some years ago, I met a fellow who lived near me. City grown
person. He grew up in a welfare home. I grew up in the suburbs.
I decided to see if I could coach him in some better ways to
do things. What I found was that everything he did came with a
big list of reasons. Which reasons made no sense to me. And
everything I suggested was declined for a big list of reasons.
Which list of reasons made no sense to me. And so twenty years
later, the only thing I accomplished was to have wasted a lot of
time and money and effort. And some antacids based on
frustration. Twenty years later he had fewer teeth and a couple
heart attacks from smoking and fatty dieet of city foods. The tax
payer had paid for most of his cigs, and had paid for his couple
days in the hospital and is presently paying for all his medication.
When I met hin, his idea of how to spend time was to stand on
the front porch with a cigarette and cordless phone, and chat
with the people walking by. When I said good bye to him, he
was standing on the front porch with a cigarette, and cordless
phone, chatting with the people going by.

I don't plan to go to Africa any time in my life.

..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
wrote in message ...

I had the same missgivings when I was in Africa (Zambia) 40 years ago.
Was it effective for me to be there teaching when they had their own
people who were capable of teaching - but could make more money
working in private business because I was willing to be there
basically teaching for nothing??? Might it not have been better to
work towards getting their own people involved rather than having Cuso
volunteers do the job? The CIDA funded directors of the program had a
pretty nice gig going that they were not too interested in working
their way out of. Can't complain about sun 9 months of the year,
cheap beer, and a relatively easy expatriate lifestyle, along with a
good salary and "hardship bonus".

For my part, I tried to instill in my students a sense of
responsibility, and a sense of PRIDE - so that they might consider
teaching others - passing on the knowlege they were SO FORTUNATE to
have the opportunity to have provided for them. I have to believe
that at least a few of my 35 students went on to be a positive
influence in their world. After 2 years I came home with empty
pockets, but a lifetime of experiences to look back on.


My later time in Burkina Faso I sometimes also had to wonder if there
was any point to being there. The people group I was involved in had
real trust issues - they didn't trust each other farther than they
could throw each other - and with good reason - as honesty was not a
commodity in great supply. My friends had, by that time, been working
with this group for about 17 years, and had been really questioning if
anything was getting through. While I was there they found out about
some serious duplicity and deciet that was causing serious problems in
the community. They had to leave the community a year or so later, if
for no other reason than to preserve their sanity - although health
was the more significant force. They still had contact and were still
working with the community, although not living in the community.
Going back 10 or more years later, the whole fabric of the village has
changed - they are more trusting and trustworthy - and along with that
they are becoming more self sufficient and prosperous, and more
healthy. They had an influence - and they had to step back and let it
perculate for a while.

Don't most socialists complain bitterly about multi
national corporations with all the power? They would
much rather have government with all the power.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message ...

So it is the White Mans fault after all. It's a conspiracy to keep The
Africans enslaved. I suppose Whitey is afraid of a strong Sub-Saharan
Africa so all the charity and religious relief agencies are being used
to keep The Black Man down. They're not there to help even though they
truly believe they're doing God's work. They're a tool of the evil
multinational corporations which wish to steal Sub-Saharan Africa from
the people who own it. Darn, we must let all the church groups know the
truth so they can stop what they're doing. o_O

TDD

Sounds like Clare, like me in my Lenny days, was
trying to help them learn new skills and take care of
themselves. I respect that.

I wonder if powerful multi national corporations were
keeping Lenny on the porch with the cordless phone?
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message ...


I salute you and your family for trying to help those poor folks in such
a bad situation. The people who really help are few and far between and
that's a real shame. If I ever start to feel sorry for myself, all I
have to do is remember the folks around the world who's
lives are so much harder than my own. I know that if I resided in one
of those Third World countries, I would have been dead long ago. The
nurse called today with news of a new pain medication they want me to
try. I wouldn't have access to such medical care in a third world
country and I would suffer a lot worse fate. o_O

TDD

So, how many black African corporations are
responsible? Or are the multi national corps
run by rich white men wtih cigars and air
conditioned high offices in sky scraper buildings
with coffee machines and secretaries?
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
wrote in message ...
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 19:15:47 -0500, The Daring Dufas

It's a WHOLE LOT more complex than most who only see it from this side
of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
deeper than that.


So it is the White Mans fault after all. It's a conspiracy to keep The
Africans enslaved. I suppose Whitey is afraid of a strong Sub-Saharan
Africa so all the charity and religious relief agencies are being used
to keep The Black Man down. They're not there to help even though they
truly believe they're doing God's work. They're a tool of the evil
multinational corporations which wish to steal Sub-Saharan Africa from
the people who own it. Darn, we must let all the church groups know the
truth so they can stop what they're doing. o_O

TDD
That is NOT what I said - and you know it.

Ah, health problems. I dumped Lenny after he got
me sick three times in a couple months. Twice off
a sick kid, and once when he fed me a salmonella
burger that he knew good and well was tainted.

Part of the reason I don't go to Africa, I can't be
getting sick like that. I've heard that Africa is host
to a wide variety of diseases, in larg part because
they don't understand microbes.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
wrote in message ...

Even something as common ad diabetes is pretty much a death sentance
for most. It's not a good situation even for "whitey" with diabetes.

Chronic malaria, Bilharzia, and malnutrition means many have 3 strikes
against them before they reach age 5 (if they do). And that's not
including what is in the drinking water.

Sanitation is another serious issue - building proper privies AND
wells in Wast Africa would make a huge difference in human health.
In East Africa and Central Africa the general higene seamed a lot
better.

On my trip last spring to the Mediteranean, North Africa, and the
Canary Islands I think the worst conditions I ran across were in
Marseille France - worse than Cassablanca - and some parts of
Cassablanca were pretty rough. We saw the "underbelly" of Cassablanca
from a mini-taxi we hired to take us around the city most tourists
don't get to see - parts of the "old city" where even a minibus would
not get through. Very Arab - yet also very African

Now, that's a profound question. Which agencies
are actually doing good for the Africans? I don't
donate, because I'm suspicious.

The other question. Is foreign relief allowing the
Africans to have larger families, who will grow up
as dependants on foreign relief?
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message ...

I believe the thing that would save a lot of children is clean potable
water. I remember seeing a video of relief agencies setting up medical
clinics for children in order to give them a mega dose of vitamins to
keep the infants from going blind. I can't physically do anything like
travel to those areas of the world to help those folks and I have a
little bit of money coming in but am suspicious of what agency actually
uses donations for something other than TV advertizing to get more
donations. With your experience, who do you consider a charitable
organization that efficiently uses donations to help people? o_O

TDD

Needs silent alarm motion detectors around the AC.
So the pastor and the Elders can run out and beat the
copper thieves into the next world.

Big sign over the crucifix: Here is the king of the
copper thieves.
..
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..
..
"The Daring Dufas" wrote in message ...

I do help my neighbors and I've done a lot of work for churches. When I
was hospitalized last May, the minister from my friend's church was my
first visitor because I helped repair the AC unit outside their church
after copper thieves cut out the copper lines. I donated time and
materials even though I don't share their faith. They're just nice good
people who have little but help others as much as they can. I suppose
when I help a group of folks like that, I'm helping many others by
proxy. ^_^

TDD

On Jun 18, 5:17*am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 6/18/2013 2:10 AM, harry wrote:





On Jun 18, 1:15 am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 6/17/2013 3:34 PM, wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 21:22:42 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

On 6/16/2013 5:41 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 16:00:07 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

I wonder how far $100 million would go helping rural African medical
clinics keeping "The Children" alive and preventing them from going
blind by providing proper nutrition for the little tykes? Gosh, I
imagine there are a lot of things $100 million could help fix like the
storm damage done to the various communities around the U.S. o_O

TDD

You could feed a million Africans for a few months, but that would
spoil the First Family Vacation.

OTOH, I've read that food aid is spoiling in warehouses in some
countries where the corrupt government is not allowing distribution or
is selling it on the black market.

It's a real shame when folks try to help the unfortunate but the despots
and warlords who have seized control of those impoverished countries
take all the relief supplies for themselves. It's one of those
situations where your political beliefs may tell you not to interfere
with the government of other countries but your conscience
tells you to kick somebody's ass for what they're doing to helpless
people, especially children. o_O

TDD
Another problem with food aid is when cheap or free food is brought in
from outside it kills the market for locally grown food when there IS
a good crop - so the small farmer gets nothing for his cash crops and
cannot afford to buy anything from anyone else.

When the small farmer can't get anything for his rice because the
market has been flooded with free USAID rice shipped in from
where-ever, he soon cannot afford to grow rice any more, so now the
food shortage is even worse.

Food aid only when necessary, and help and education to allow the
locals to grow and produce their own food, or to earn the money to buy
food, is MUCH more effective.

Transportation is also a problem. *Both for locally produced food and
for foof aid. The food grows after the rainy season - and the roads
are washed out by the rains to the point you cannot get trucks through
to pick up the crops to move them to market. *Then the food aid comes
in, and the locals are out of food - the neew crop has not grown yet -
and the roads are impassible to deliver the food aid to where it is
needed..

It's a WHOLE LOT more complex than most who only see it from this side
of the pond (wherever that may be) can even begin to imagine.
Yes, there are societal and political reasons - but it goes a lot
deeper than that.

African development is a very DIFFICULT subject. Much moreso than even
south American, central American, or Asian development - all of which
have their own issues.

You need to see the situation from within to even BEGIN to understand
it.

So it is the White Mans fault after all. It's a conspiracy to keep The
Africans enslaved. I suppose Whitey is afraid of a strong Sub-Saharan
Africa so all the charity and religious relief agencies are being used
to keep The Black Man down. They're not there to help even though they
truly believe they're doing God's work. They're a tool of the evil
multinational corporations which wish to steal Sub-Saharan Africa from
the people who own it. Darn, we must let all the church groups know the
truth so they can stop what they're doing. o_O

TDD

There has always been slavery everywhere and there still is.
Both legal and illegal.
Black people never even discovered the wheel. *They became an obvious
target for slave taking.
Most slaves were rounded up by their compatriots and sold on. Some
even sold their own unwanted children

The ancestors of many of my darker skinned cousins were sold into
slavery by their own people on the coast of West Africa to slave traders
from Europe. The different tribes waring with each other didn't consider
what they were doing with the prisoners they took to be wrong but I
suppose they didn't care as long as their adversaries were out of their
sight for ever. I wonder if the warlords actually knew of the horror
their fellow Africans faced in the dark holds of those slaver's ships? o_O

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, I can't imagine they thought they were sending
them off to a vacation cruise.....

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 00:06:17 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 17, 11:21*pm, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 17:10:53 -0400, wrote:
In America the Indians were murdered, put in concentration camps and
ethnically cleansed.

Murder was not against the law. Killing a hostile injuns was
justified. There were no "concentrations camps". Once an Indian,
always an Indian.

So harry you continue to tell lies, constantly repeating the lies, but
you never give a reference. Show this GROUP where you found this
information.

*By the British - who then became Americans.

harry will defend his lies; repeating it in frequent postings...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...en ous_People

Wow 1838!

The USA has always had concentration camps and still has.
More then a hundred throughout the USA and of course one in Cuba.
http://www.greatdreams.com/concentration.htm


That shows a photo of what appears to the federal prison in El Reno.

You don't even know current events never mind your own history.

I constantly catch you in lies here, about American history. Shall I
start a chronological log for you?

I hear you still gas people in some states.

Name one.

And "W" authorised torture.

Good for him. But is not "torture". It is enhanced interrogations, but
being the git that you are, you'll never figure it out.

Now we learn your gestapo is spying on all your/our emails and
telephone convesations.


Monitoring communications goes back the WWI or WWII. But what would
know.

The fascist state.

Got a resource reference for that?

On Mon, 17 Jun 2013 23:35:57 -0700 (PDT), harry
wrote:

On Jun 17, 4:54*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 23:11:30 -0700 (PDT), harry

wrote:
On Jun 17, 1:32*am, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:17:01 -0400, wrote:
Yes, development in Africa is a vairy difficult subject - if it
wasn't, not everybody who has tried in the past would have failed as
dismally as they have - but progress is being made - one step at a
time.

I think, along the Congo, natives regretted *not killing *Livingstone
& Stanley ?

Since Livingstone never traveled on the Congo they wouldn't have had
the chance.

His was at the headwaters of the Congo.

But then you always come up with fiction.

Stanley was an American who spent time shooting negros, in Africa
sport he was no doubt accustomed to.

Stanley was not an American. He was born in Wales, died in London.


By that measure there are no Americans except the indians.
The ones left that is after the various massacres.

Address the lie you told about Stanley being an American. You try to
move the goal post all the time.

You should seek some mental heath counseling.