Grandkids just found this baby outside by their skateboards:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13218290.gif

Can you tell if it's a rattler or a gopher snake?

I don't want to hurt a gopher snake - but I can't see the eyes.
Will try to get a better shot ...

On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 20:56:26 +0000, Danny D wrote:

Grandkids just found this baby outside by their skateboards:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13218290.gif

Here's a shot of the head after capturing in a bucket:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13218570.gif

And of the tail:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13218609.gif

It's in a bucket, slightly worse for the wear as I had to use
garden tools to capture it alive; but I don't want to hurt it;
I just want to identify it.

The babies are harder to identify than the adults:
- Triangular head vs slender head
- Slit eyes vs round eyes
- Rattle vs fake rattle
etc.

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 20:56:26 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

Grandkids just found this baby outside by their skateboards:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13218290.gif

Can you tell if it's a rattler or a gopher snake?

I don't want to hurt a gopher snake - but I can't see the eyes.
Will try to get a better shot ...

Danny,

Kill that snake RIGHT now. Shoot it. Rattlers can bite you because
they reach out and coil back, longer than the body length.

This is a venomous viper, rattler. Vipers have a head shaped like a
triangle

Nevada has one that looks the same, said as one of most deadly
rattlers in the country. (we have other rattlers)

Is THIS snake there to eat the rats you have in the pool heater?

Kill it or CALL an expert. Hide the children!!

Do not fu ck around with this snake.

It should have bit you when you took the photo.

On Jun 2, 1:56*pm, Danny D wrote:
Grandkids just found this baby outside by their skateboards:
*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13218290.gif

Can you tell if it's a rattler or a gopher snake?

I don't want to hurt a gopher snake - but I can't see the eyes.
Will try to get a better shot ...

DADD-

Short Answer-

That's a rattlesnake.
UFB.... you're dangerous to yourself and others.
Can you not recognize the classic viper shape in an instant?
Don't get out much?

I guess it's better to be lucky than good?
Now what?

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 21:03:51 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

It's in a bucket, slightly worse for the wear as I had to use
garden tools to capture it alive; but I don't want to hurt it;
I just want to identify it.

Danny,

Stop messing with this viper. It can kill you, I'm being serious about
this.

A bite from a pigmy rattler would not kill you as fast as this snake
you are playing with.

STOP feeding it rats from the pool heater an get a ... gun?

You can buy hand gun "snake shot" for this purpose.

On Jun 2, 3:56*pm, Danny D wrote:
Grandkids just found this baby outside by their skateboards:
*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13218290.gif

Can you tell if it's a rattler or a gopher snake?

I don't want to hurt a gopher snake - but I can't see the eyes.
Will try to get a better shot ...

Definite rattler, you can see the small pit in front of the eye on
your 1st picture.

If you want to see more closeup on them see:
http://www.alongtheway.org/rattlesnakes/faq.html

On Jun 2, 4:13*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 20:56:26 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

Grandkids just found this baby outside by their skateboards:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13218290.gif

Can you tell if it's a rattler or a gopher snake?

I don't want to hurt a gopher snake - but I can't see the eyes.
Will try to get a better shot ...

Danny,

Kill that snake RIGHT now. *Shoot it. *Rattlers can bite you because
they reach out and coil back, longer than the body length.

This is a venomous viper, rattler. Vipers have a head shaped like a
triangle

Nevada has one that looks the same, said as one of most deadly
rattlers in the country. (we have other rattlers)

Is THIS snake there to eat the rats you have in the pool heater?

Kill it or CALL an expert. Hide the children!!

Do not fu ck around with this snake.

It should have bit you when you took the photo.

CHOOT IT!! CHOOT THE CHIT OUT OF IT!!!

On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 14:13:02 -0700, Oren wrote:

Kill that snake RIGHT now. Shoot it. Rattlers can bite you

I try not to kill anything I don't have to; so I put it in a
spare blue bucket with a secure top, and will take it a
few acres away and let it go.
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13218972.jpg

Thanks for the identification help; when they're adults,
they're easier to tell (because of the rattle) but young
ones are harder (the rattle is smaller).

I've seen gopher snakes with similar markings (and a similar
fake rattle, but they have more slender heads and round eyes).

I still haven't gotten a good look at the eyes (slit vs
round) but I do agree the head shape could be pit viper.

Thanks.

On Jun 2, 1:56*pm, Danny D wrote:
Grandkids just found this baby outside by their skateboards:
*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13218290.gif

Can you tell if it's a rattler or a gopher snake?

I don't want to hurt a gopher snake - but I can't see the eyes.
Will try to get a better shot ...

How about this?

http://bit.ly/11bMMxc & this http://bit.ly/11bMSVw

If you cannot instantly & accurately see the difference.... stay away,
far away.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_a_baby_...han_an_ adult
http://lomalindahealth.org/medical-c...es-strike.page

This is nothing to fool around with..... unless you're interested in a
very painful and potentially permanently disabling injury with ongoing
effects. The good news... death is unlikely but still a rattlesnake
bite is not something you want to experience.

I met a guy who suffered a snake bit and permanently lost a
substantial amount of muscle in either the arm or leg that was bitten.
Google "lawyer bitten by snake put in mailbox"... there are YouTube
interviews with him, ~30 years later he's a physical wreck.

What's that saying about someone / something watches over fools & ???

On Jun 2, 2:51*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 14:13:02 -0700, Oren wrote:
Kill that snake RIGHT now. *Shoot it. *Rattlers can bite you

I try not to kill anything I don't have to; so I put it in a
spare blue bucket with a secure top, and will take it a
few acres away and let it go.
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13218972.jpg

Thanks for the identification help; when they're adults,
they're easier to tell (because of the rattle) but young
ones are harder (the rattle is smaller).

I've seen gopher snakes with similar markings (and a similar
fake rattle, but they have more slender heads and round eyes).

I still haven't gotten a good look at the eyes (slit vs
round) but I do agree the head shape could be pit viper.

Thanks.

DADD-

This is not a "could be a pit viper" situation.....
Are you going to play around until someone gets hurt?

btw.. it can still effectively strike even if the eyes are closed or
in darkness.... the special talent of pit vipers.

Ever heard of the "Sidewinder" (AIM-9) air to air missile?
There's a reason for that name.

On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 14:39:15 -0700, Red wrote:

you can see the small pit in front of the eye on
your 1st picture.

I zoomed into that first picture, and I definitely see
the slit eye now (so it's definitely a rattler):
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13219089.jpg

But, I'm having trouble identifying the pit; is this it?
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13219094.jpg

On 6/2/2013 5:51 PM, Danny D wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 14:13:02 -0700, Oren wrote:

Kill that snake RIGHT now. Shoot it. Rattlers can bite you

I try not to kill anything I don't have to; so I put it in a
spare blue bucket with a secure top, and will take it a
few acres away and let it go.
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13218972.jpg

Thanks for the identification help; when they're adults,
they're easier to tell (because of the rattle) but young
ones are harder (the rattle is smaller).

I've seen gopher snakes with similar markings (and a similar
fake rattle, but they have more slender heads and round eyes).

I still haven't gotten a good look at the eyes (slit vs
round) but I do agree the head shape could be pit viper.

Thanks.


I've personally never seen a rattler but from tail it is obvious to me.

On Jun 2, 2:51*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 14:13:02 -0700, Oren wrote:
Kill that snake RIGHT now. *Shoot it. *Rattlers can bite you

I try not to kill anything I don't have to; so I put it in a
spare blue bucket with a secure top, and will take it a
few acres away and let it go.
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13218972.jpg

Thanks for the identification help; when they're adults,
they're easier to tell (because of the rattle) but young
ones are harder (the rattle is smaller).

I've seen gopher snakes with similar markings (and a similar
fake rattle, but they have more slender heads and round eyes).

I still haven't gotten a good look at the eyes (slit vs
round) but I do agree the head shape could be pit viper.

Thanks.

If you're going relocate vs kill....

here's more info

http://www.livingalongsidewildlife.c...elocation.html

On Jun 2, 2:51*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 14:13:02 -0700, Oren wrote:
Kill that snake RIGHT now. *Shoot it. *Rattlers can bite you

I try not to kill anything I don't have to; so I put it in a
spare blue bucket with a secure top, and will take it a
few acres away and let it go.
*http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13218972.jpg

Thanks for the identification help; when they're adults,
they're easier to tell (because of the rattle) but young
ones are harder (the rattle is smaller).

I've seen gopher snakes with similar markings (and a similar
fake rattle, but they have more slender heads and round eyes).

I still haven't gotten a good look at the eyes (slit vs
round) but I do agree the head shape could be pit viper.

Thanks.

Our tax dollars at work

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74119.html

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 14:18:51 -0700 (PDT), DD_BobK
wrote:

Can you not recognize the classic viper shape in an instant?

You can smell a Cottonmouth Water Moccasin. They smell like rotten
meat, so do not move. A brother taught me that. Sure enough, onetime,
one had his head resting on my shoe and I could smell it, like what I
was told.

http://peterandsharda.com/wp-includes/js/cottonmouth-water-moccasin-venom-i3.jpg

I've been face to face with a Cottonmouth Water Moccasin (inches). He
ended up being separated by a 30.06 blast

Danny should kill and eat that rattler. Taste like fried chicken, when
fried. Bury the head, venom and fangs way over yonder.

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 14:41:16 -0700 (PDT), Red
wrote:

It should have bit you when you took the photo.

CHOOT IT!! CHOOT THE CHIT OUT OF IT!!!

CHOOT it again, hurry.

On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 14:39:15 -0700, Red wrote:

If you want to see more closeup on them see:
http://www.alongtheway.org/rattlesnakes/faq.html

Thanks.
That is a very nice site, with professional videos.
I'm going through every one as we type.

The pit in their pictures seemed a bit lower in front
than my snake's pit, so, I created this composite to
help the grandkids (and others) identify rattlers, in
the future.

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13219210.jpg

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 21:51:37 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

I try not to kill anything I don't have to; so I put it in a
spare blue bucket with a secure top, and will take it a
few acres away and let it go.
http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13218972.jpg

Cut the head off at the first white ring behind the head. Keep the
head away from yourself, potential poison possibilities.

Skin the snake, cure the hide and make a wallet, belt or hat band.

Deep fry the white meat after it is gutted and washed.

A few acres away is not good enough when they come to your house and
eat rats. You cut the forest land they live in.

The snake is there for the food supply.

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 15:00:25 -0700 (PDT), DD_BobK
wrote:

This is nothing to fool around with..... unless you're interested in a
very painful and potentially permanently disabling injury with ongoing
effects. The good news... death is unlikely but still a rattlesnake
bite is not something you want to experience.

This is an interesting man. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Haast

Anti-venoms were made from his blood, real science. He spent days with
severe hallucinations from Cobra bites. Said his eyes felt on fire
and bulging out of his head. He traveled to places to give his blood
for victims.

" Haast had been bitten 172 times as of mid-2008"

RIP Bill.

On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 15:16:07 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

If you're going relocate vs kill....
here's more info

Very nice article. Thanks.

That article recommends, if you're gonna relocate,
somewhere close by, so, luckily, the place I relocate
my rattlers to is only a few hundred yards away.

I let them loose on a steep slope deep in a ravine,
where no people travel (it's where I cut a 500 yard tunnel
through the poison oak a couple of years ago - so I can
easily walk it, but most people don't).

On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 15:18:00 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74119.html

Hmmm... based on that article, I think I misidentified the
"loreal pit".

I think I identified the nostril as the pit in this pic:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13219210.jpg

Do you see the pit in that picture?

On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 15:16:07 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:

here's more info

I contacted the author of DD_BobK's reference, Dr. David A. Steen,
who is a Post-doctoral Research Associate at the Department of
Fish and Wildlife Conservation at the Virginia Polytechnic Institute.

He confirmed it's a rattler and he provided some advice on
relocating it safely. He also asked for more pictures, so
I'll be sending them to him soon as he wants to publish them.

Thanks for the helpful advice!

On 6/2/2013 5:08 PM, Danny D wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 14:39:15 -0700, Red wrote:

you can see the small pit in front of the eye on
your 1st picture.

I zoomed into that first picture, and I definitely see
the slit eye now (so it's definitely a rattler):
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13219089.jpg

But, I'm having trouble identifying the pit; is this it?
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13219094.jpg

From Wikipedia

What makes this group unique is that they all share a common
characteristic: a deep pit, or fossa, in the loreal area between the eye
and the nostril on either side of the head. These loreal pits are the
external openings to a pair of extremely sensitive infrared-detecting
organs, which in effect give the snakes a sixth sense to help them find
and perhaps even judge the size of the small, warm-blooded prey on which
they feed.[6]

On 6/2/2013 5:25 PM, Oren wrote:

Danny should kill and eat that rattler. Taste like fried chicken, when
fried. Bury the head, venom and fangs way over yonder.

'scuse me, Oren... but if you put something on my plate that taste "just
like fried chicken," it damn well better BE fried chicken!g

On Jun 2, 5:08*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 14:39:15 -0700, Red wrote:
you can see the small pit in front of the eye on
your 1st picture.

I zoomed into that first picture, and I definitely see
the slit eye now (so it's definitely a rattler):
*http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13219089.jpg

But, I'm having trouble identifying the pit; is this it?
*http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13219094.jpg

Yes.

On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 16:05:16 -0700, Oren wrote:

Anti-venoms were made from his blood

Wow. And he lived over 100 years!

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 15:07:27 -0700 (PDT), DD_BobK
wrote:

Are you going to play around until someone gets hurt?


Kid runs to the doctor, saying his friend was snake bit on his penis.

Doc says lance the fang marks with an X cut and suck the poison out.

Runs back to his friend, anxiously waiting for help. "What did the
doctor say, the stricken one asked.

His friend kindly replied: "You're gonna die mother ****er!"

btw.. it can still effectively strike even if the eyes are closed or
in darkness.... the special talent of pit vipers.

They detect heat and can strike on that impulse.

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 23:31:47 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

I contacted the author of DD_BobK's reference, Dr. David A. Steen,
who is a Post-doctoral Research Associate at the Department of
Fish and Wildlife Conservation at the Virginia Polytechnic Institute.

He confirmed it's a rattler and he provided some advice on
relocating it safely. He also asked for more pictures, so
I'll be sending them to him soon as he wants to publish them.


Dang. I knew it was a rattler. I never spent any money on the
education level he must have.

One time a jury determined that a fish was a fowl. It had a gizzard
and while jumping from the water, it was trying to fly. Evolution.

The man was acquitted of illegal fishing.

Naples, Collier County, Florida.

On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 17:03:24 -0700, Oren wrote:

btw.. it can still effectively strike even if the eyes are closed or
in darkness.... the special talent of pit vipers.

They detect heat and can strike on that impulse.

I didn't think snakes can actually close their eyes though...

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 23:54:12 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 16:05:16 -0700, Oren wrote:

Anti-venoms were made from his blood

Wow. And he lived over 100 years!

Bill Hasst was a marvel to doctors and scientist in snake bite
research. Folks don't hold up to the amount of bites and venom his
body endured.

He often injected snake venoms in himself.

What broke his heart, causing the closing of the Miami Serpentarium,
was when a tourist dropped her infant child in a pit with crocodiles.

On Mon, 3 Jun 2013 00:19:11 +0000 (UTC), Danny D
wrote:

On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 17:03:24 -0700, Oren wrote:

btw.. it can still effectively strike even if the eyes are closed or
in darkness.... the special talent of pit vipers.

They detect heat and can strike on that impulse.

I didn't think snakes can actually close their eyes though...

They can still strike when shedding skin. Think of a "cataract" over
the eye. A slight degree of blindness.

On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 18:40:48 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
wrote:

On 6/2/2013 5:25 PM, Oren wrote:

Danny should kill and eat that rattler. Taste like fried chicken, when
fried. Bury the head, venom and fangs way over yonder.

'scuse me, Oren... but if you put something on my plate that taste "just
like fried chicken," it damn well better BE fried chicken!g


Oh don't be silly.

I can make gator tai or fresh cooter taste like chicken.

A neighbor from India (?) said the gator tail tasted like fried
shrimp. Then I explained all the details.

On Jun 2, 4:20*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 15:18:00 -0700, DD_BobK wrote:
http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn74119.html

Hmmm... based on that article, I think I misidentified the
"loreal pit".

I think I identified the nostril as the pit in this pic:
*http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13219210.jpg

Do you see the pit in that picture?

Yes... I met my first set of rattlesnakes in the eastern foothills of
OC in the 60's.
I know exactly what they look like and I have no desire to "visit"
them up close in the real world.

On Jun 2, 5:19*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 17:03:24 -0700, Oren wrote:
btw.. it can still effectively strike even if the eyes are closed or
in darkness.... the special talent of pit vipers.

They detect heat and can strike on that impulse.

I didn't think snakes can actually close their eyes though...

Wanna do the experiment & let us know your findings?

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 20:06:06 -0700 (PDT), DD_BobK
wrote:

On Jun 2, 5:19*pm, Danny D wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 17:03:24 -0700, Oren wrote:
btw.. it can still effectively strike even if the eyes are closed or
in darkness.... the special talent of pit vipers.

They detect heat and can strike on that impulse.

I didn't think snakes can actually close their eyes though...

Wanna do the experiment & let us know your findings?

People wrongfully think a snake cannot bite you underwater.

Yes they can. Dive into a nest of Cottonmouths.

Rattlers, like this case, swim with heads and tail rattlers above
water surface level

They keep their rattler buttons dry...the early warning device.

On Jun 2, 5:03*pm, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 15:07:27 -0700 (PDT), DD_BobK
wrote:

Are you going to play around until someone gets hurt?

Kid runs to the doctor, saying his friend was snake bit on his penis.

Doc says lance the fang marks with an X cut and suck the poison out.

Runs back to his friend, anxiously waiting for help. "What did the
doctor say, the stricken one asked.

His friend kindly replied: "You're gonna die mother ****er!"

btw.. it can still effectively strike even if the eyes are closed or
in darkness.... the special talent of pit vipers.

They detect heat and can strike on that impulse.

Yup! They have steroscopic heat sensing...

I sure there's a YouTube video of a pit viper strike on a rodent in
the dark.
I'll see if I can find one. No luck..

from the shallow end of the gene pool

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMENpr3vtlM

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 20:27:20 -0700 (PDT), DD_BobK
wrote:

They detect heat and can strike on that impulse.

Yup! They have steroscopic heat sensing...

I sure there's a YouTube video of a pit viper strike on a rodent in
the dark.
I'll see if I can find one. No luck..

from the shallow end of the gene pool

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMENpr3vtlM

Crazy. Striking without a head.

....
_Bill Haast and King Cobra, the Polio Project, circa 1951_

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWBtgxbtj1M

On 6/2/2013 5:25 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 14:18:51 -0700 (PDT), DD_BobK
wrote:

Can you not recognize the classic viper shape in an instant?

You can smell a Cottonmouth Water Moccasin. They smell like rotten
meat, so do not move. A brother taught me that. Sure enough, onetime,
one had his head resting on my shoe and I could smell it, like what I
was told.

http://peterandsharda.com/wp-includes/js/cottonmouth-water-moccasin-venom-i3.jpg

I've been face to face with a Cottonmouth Water Moccasin (inches). He
ended up being separated by a 30.06 blast

Danny should kill and eat that rattler. Taste like fried chicken, when
fried. Bury the head, venom and fangs way over yonder.



Our family farm on the side of a mountain has two natural springs and
one of them was dug out and a pump house built over it creating an
enclosed 2,000gal cistern. Back in the 1960's I went inside the pump
house and had a Cottonmouth drop from the rafters brushing me on its way
to the pool, it hit the water and took off. I suppose I was lucky
it didn't bite me on the way down. ^_^

TDD

On Mon, 03 Jun 2013 15:23:53 -0500, The Daring Dufas
wrote:

Our family farm on the side of a mountain has two natural springs and
one of them was dug out and a pump house built over it creating an
enclosed 2,000gal cistern. Back in the 1960's I went inside the pump
house and had a Cottonmouth drop from the rafters brushing me on its way
to the pool, it hit the water and took off. I suppose I was lucky
it didn't bite me on the way down. ^_^

TDD

Cottonmouths do climb trees near a shore. Fishing at night, they can
drop right into the boat.

"Do I stay or Do I Go"

Some say folks have shot the bottom of the boat full of holes.

hilarity ensues

On 2013-06-03, Oren wrote:

Some say folks have shot the bottom of the boat full of holes.

hilarity ensues

heh heh..... the double barrel polka!

nb