On 05/14/2013 07:28 PM, Danny D. wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013 17:48:30 -0500, HeyBub wrote:

Really, really liked the hint of obtaining gas can vent caps via Ebay !

I wonder how 'much' gas (percentage wise) actually escapes as vapor
from a modified gas can with a vent?

That is, how much of a problem is the EPA trying to solve?

I'll call CARB tomorrow to see if I can nail down what we're
saving in gas venting versus the huge frustration and cost of
those useless spouts.

not to mention the increased spillage trying to get them to work...



BTW: Sorry for the duplicate posts (AIOE does that every once in a while).
(Using a different newsserver for this post).



--
fact check required

On Tue, 14 May 2013 19:33:30 -0700, jim beam wrote:

not to mention the increased spillage trying to get them to work...

Seems to me they mandated the gas stays *in* rather well; but
not that the gas comes *out* gracefully.

The cost of the complexity is (it seems):
a) The increased spillage of gasoline
b) The increased vapors from gas left in the can (see note 1)
c) The increased cost & complexity of the spout
d) The increased time it takes to pour the gas out

Note 1:
I can't get all the gas out of the can with the spout on.
I presume all that gas will vaporize and fill the can with
gasoline vapors, which, will stay inside due to the lack of
venting and permeability - but - they will immediately escape
the moment the spout is removed for the refilling tasks.

Given that we spill more, and we vent more when we open the
gasoline can to refill - yet - we certainly vent *less* during
storage and during the pouring tasks ... I wonder where the
balance of the equation lies?

Does anyone know of any data on what we're actually saving
in vented gasoline vapors?

On 05/14/2013 08:10 PM, Danny D. wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013 19:33:30 -0700, jim beam wrote:

not to mention the increased spillage trying to get them to work...

Seems to me they mandated the gas stays *in* rather well; but
not that the gas comes *out* gracefully.

The cost of the complexity is (it seems):
a) The increased spillage of gasoline
b) The increased vapors from gas left in the can (see note 1)
c) The increased cost & complexity of the spout
d) The increased time it takes to pour the gas out

Note 1:
I can't get all the gas out of the can with the spout on.
I presume all that gas will vaporize and fill the can with
gasoline vapors, which, will stay inside due to the lack of
venting and permeability - but - they will immediately escape
the moment the spout is removed for the refilling tasks.

Given that we spill more, and we vent more when we open the
gasoline can to refill - yet - we certainly vent *less* during
storage and during the pouring tasks ... I wonder where the
balance of the equation lies?

Does anyone know of any data on what we're actually saving
in vented gasoline vapors?


for anything more than a few hours storage, there's no question that
fully sealed will lose less. this is because the sealed can vapors will
reach equilibrium and after initial vaporization inside the can, it will
then stop once its magic vapor pressure is reached. with a vented can,
that never happens, and it continues to leak out forever until all gone.

so, re storage, these cans are a win. but on pouring, which is the
whole point of the can in the first place - most people use cans to
transport gas, not store it - these "no leak" cans are a joke. maybe if
you're filling a lawn mower they work, but for a car with the fuel cap
only accessible from a vertical plane, it's pretty much impossible to
pour more than about 30% of contents without spillage. and that's
assuming you've /not/ given up on the spout and are not using a
newspaper or other improvised funnel.

bottom line, these things need to be re-thought. preferably by someone
with a car.


--
fact check required

On Tue, 14 May 2013 20:46:29 -0700, jim beam wrote:

for anything more than a few hours storage, there's no question that
fully sealed will lose less. this is because the sealed can vapors will
reach equilibrium and after initial vaporization inside the can, it will
then stop once its magic vapor pressure is reached. with a vented can,
that never happens, and it continues to leak out forever until all gone.

Hmmm... in the olden days, with the vented cans, I don't remember ever
having the gasoline all vaporize. Although, I must admit I never thought
about the level in the can day to day.

Would the old-style cans lose *all* the gas over time?

How long (for 5 gallons)?

On May 14, 9:03*pm, "Danny D." wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013 20:46:29 -0700, jim beam wrote:
for anything more than a few hours storage, there's no question that
fully sealed will lose less. *this is because the sealed can vapors will
reach equilibrium and after initial vaporization inside the can, it will
then stop once its magic vapor pressure is reached. *with a vented can,
that never happens, and it continues to leak out forever until all gone..

Hmmm... in the olden days, with the vented cans, I don't remember ever
having the gasoline all vaporize. Although, I must admit I never thought
about the level in the can day to day.

Would the old-style cans lose *all* the gas over time?

How long (for 5 gallons)?

I used to store a 1 gal can in one of my sheds for the mowers. Never
found the can empty even after sitting for a year.

Harry K

On Tue, 14 May 2013 20:46:29 -0700, jim beam wrote:

bottom line, these things need to be re-thought.
preferably by someone with a car.

When I told Angus at CARB (916-445-4686) earlier today
that the air resource board specifications were only
for keeping the gas *in* the can, nobody allowed for the
gas to come *out*, he just laughed good naturedly. He's
heard it all. There was nothing I was going to tell him
about the spout or the spills or the slowness of the gas
coming out that he hadn't heard before.

He *was* unaware of the flaw where a concentric ring cracks
on the Blitz spouts (it happened to three of my cans); but
he said CARB doesn't get warranty information from the
manufacturer.

So, I have to agree with you that they need to rethink
these cans.
a) They've gotten the gas to stay *in* rather well;
b) Now it's time for them to mandate the gas come *out*!

On Tue, 14 May 2013 20:46:29 -0700, jim beam wrote:

bottom line, these things need to be re-thought. preferably by someone
with a car.

Funny thing. The 5-gallon can instructions say "not for refueling
automotive vehicles".

On Tue, 14 May 2013 18:07:43 -0400, krw wrote:

When they make it illegal to own gas caps and toilets,
only criminals will have gas caps and toilets.

I have a secret plan to own what may be illegal!

I was told by the Plastics Group of Willowbrook, Illinois today, that
*nobody* bought the gasoline can molds from the now defunct Blitz USA of
Miami Oklahoma; but, at the same time, we are aware that Hopkins
Manufacturing Corp. of Emporia, Kansas paid $14.6 million for everything
*but* the gas can molds.

That means, if we're lucky, that the Hopkins Manufacturing *water* jugs
might use the *same cap* as the Blitz USA gasoline cans!

To find out if that's true, I ordered a set of water jug caps from
Hopkins Manufacturing today.

Cross your fingers and maybe they'll fit!

On 5/14/2013 10:46 PM, jim beam wrote:
bottom line, these things need to be re-thought. preferably by someone
with a car.

Or a freakin' brain!

Neither my wife nor I are klutzes but I'll guarantee you that we've both
spilled more gasoline than would have escaped as vapor using the old
style cans. We kept the vents closed and the cans capped unless we were
actually pouring gasoline.

On 05/14/2013 09:46 PM, Caryn wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013 20:46:29 -0700, jim beam wrote:

bottom line, these things need to be re-thought. preferably by someone
with a car.

Funny thing. The 5-gallon can instructions say "not for refueling
automotive vehicles".


wow, that's astounding.


--
fact check required

On 05/14/2013 09:03 PM, Danny D. wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013 20:46:29 -0700, jim beam wrote:

for anything more than a few hours storage, there's no question that
fully sealed will lose less. this is because the sealed can vapors will
reach equilibrium and after initial vaporization inside the can, it will
then stop once its magic vapor pressure is reached. with a vented can,
that never happens, and it continues to leak out forever until all gone.

Hmmm... in the olden days, with the vented cans, I don't remember ever
having the gasoline all vaporize. Although, I must admit I never thought
about the level in the can day to day.

Would the old-style cans lose *all* the gas over time?

if vented, absolutely. it'll take a while, but it will.



How long (for 5 gallons)?

don't know, but i do know that a dented-up 11 gallon gas tank from a car
with about a gallon of unpourable gas left in the back yard is bone dry
a couple of months later.


--
fact check required

On 05/14/2013 02:06 PM, Brent wrote:
snip
And the FDM gun is just nonsense. People with skills and specialized
equipment could always make their own firearms.

indeed. you have afghans in caves making the real deal with little more
than primitive tools and crappy materials - it's simply absurd to try
and demonize a set of technical skills. unless you're a political
sociopath, but that's another debate.


--
fact check required

On Tue, 14 May 2013 21:06:06 +0000 (UTC), Brent
wrote:

And the FDM gun is just nonsense. People with skills and specialized
equipment could always make their own firearms.

The 3D printed gun has no provision in the law to require a serial
number, registration or background check. The gun grabbers have gone
nuts about it. The Feds have taken control of 3D plans from the
student in Austin. Scrubbed the Internet of the plans. Spit!

A firearm milled in your basement will require the serial number,
registration, etc... By law.

On 2013-05-15, Danny D. wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013 18:07:43 -0400, krw wrote:

When they make it illegal to own gas caps and toilets,
only criminals will have gas caps and toilets.

I have a secret plan to own what may be illegal!

I was told by the Plastics Group of Willowbrook, Illinois today, that
*nobody* bought the gasoline can molds from the now defunct Blitz USA of
Miami Oklahoma; but, at the same time, we are aware that Hopkins
Manufacturing Corp. of Emporia, Kansas paid $14.6 million for everything
*but* the gas can molds.

That means, if we're lucky, that the Hopkins Manufacturing *water* jugs
might use the *same cap* as the Blitz USA gasoline cans!

To find out if that's true, I ordered a set of water jug caps from
Hopkins Manufacturing today.

Cross your fingers and maybe they'll fit!

Highly unlikely.
They would not adapt their own products to what they purchased.

Oren wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013 21:06:06 +0000 (UTC), Brent
wrote:

And the FDM gun is just nonsense. People with skills and specialized
equipment could always make their own firearms.

The 3D printed gun has no provision in the law to require a serial
number, registration or background check. The gun grabbers have gone
nuts about it. The Feds have taken control of 3D plans from the
student in Austin. Scrubbed the Internet of the plans. Spit!

A firearm milled in your basement will require the serial number,
registration, etc... By law.

Nope. No nothing required on a home made gun. It's a good idea to put
something on it but not required.

--
Steve W.

On 2013-05-15, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013 21:06:06 +0000 (UTC), Brent
wrote:

And the FDM gun is just nonsense. People with skills and specialized
equipment could always make their own firearms.

The 3D printed gun has no provision in the law to require a serial
number, registration or background check. The gun grabbers have gone
nuts about it. The Feds have taken control of 3D plans from the
student in Austin. Scrubbed the Internet of the plans. Spit!

A firearm milled in your basement will require the serial number,
registration, etc... By law.

Because criminals always care about paperwork laws. LOL.

The homemade gun has been around since there have been guns. It has
never been a problem of any significance. Why? Because someone with the
marketable skills required to make a firearm does not need to be a
criminal, is unlikely to be one, and criminals can get manufactured
firearms with less effort and cost.

On Wed, 15 May 2013 11:51:24 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Oren wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013 21:06:06 +0000 (UTC), Brent
wrote:

And the FDM gun is just nonsense. People with skills and specialized
equipment could always make their own firearms.

The 3D printed gun has no provision in the law to require a serial
number, registration or background check. The gun grabbers have gone
nuts about it. The Feds have taken control of 3D plans from the
student in Austin. Scrubbed the Internet of the plans. Spit!

A firearm milled in your basement will require the serial number,
registration, etc... By law.

Nope. No nothing required on a home made gun. It's a good idea to put
something on it but not required.

....as long as it isn't sold or transferred, no serial is needed (I'm
not an expert though)

On Wed, 15 May 2013 16:23:23 +0000 (UTC), Brent
wrote:

A firearm milled in your basement will require the serial number,
registration, etc... By law.

Because criminals always care about paperwork laws. LOL.

The homemade gun has been around since there have been guns. It has
never been a problem of any significance. Why? Because someone with the
marketable skills required to make a firearm does not need to be a
criminal, is unlikely to be one, and criminals can get manufactured
firearms with less effort and cost.

I agree with that. Today, a homemade firearm has to have a serial if
it's sold or transferred. How many guns can one put in one lunch box.

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 15 May 2013 16:23:23 +0000 (UTC), Brent
wrote:

A firearm milled in your basement will require the serial number,
registration, etc... By law.
Because criminals always care about paperwork laws. LOL.

The homemade gun has been around since there have been guns. It has
never been a problem of any significance. Why? Because someone with the
marketable skills required to make a firearm does not need to be a
criminal, is unlikely to be one, and criminals can get manufactured
firearms with less effort and cost.

I agree with that. Today, a homemade firearm has to have a serial if
it's sold or transferred. How many guns can one put in one lunch box.

Actually you cannot "sell" a firearm you made yourself.


With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided
it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing
firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting
semi-automatic rifle or non-sporting shotgun from imported parts. In
addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and
approval by ATF. An application to make a machine gun will not be
approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is
being made for a Federal or State agency.

18 U.S.C. 922(o) and (r)
26 U.S.C. 5822
27 CFR 478.39, 479.62 and 479.105


--
Steve W.

Harry K writes:

On May 14, 9:03Â*pm, "Danny D." wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013 20:46:29 -0700, jim beam wrote:
for anything more than a few hours storage, there's no question that
fully sealed will lose less. Â*this is because the sealed can vapors will
reach equilibrium and after initial vaporization inside the can, it will
then stop once its magic vapor pressure is reached. Â*with a vented can,
that never happens, and it continues to leak out forever until all gone.

Hmmm... in the olden days, with the vented cans, I don't remember ever
having the gasoline all vaporize. Although, I must admit I never thought
about the level in the can day to day.

Would the old-style cans lose *all* the gas over time?

How long (for 5 gallons)?

I used to store a 1 gal can in one of my sheds for the mowers. Never
found the can empty even after sitting for a year.

Of course you didn't.
If there is evaporation, the most volatile components go first.
What remains evaporates more and more slowly.

--
Dan Espen

Danny D wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013 11:44:52 -1000, Geoff Welsh wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lcnwdIYEfI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpaP-nT3Zog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3o5tHLWZKc

I am going to see if YouTube can teach me
to tie my shoes again.....damn velcro....

Everything in those videos was intuitive to me except
what to use for a vent. I thought it was ingenious that
they drilled a half-inch hole (paddle wood bit would be
better than the spiral flute bit they used though) and
inserted an automotive tire valve sans the stem.



The valve stem with the Schrader valve removed is an excellent
modification...if they came like that they'd probably cost ten dollars more.

GW

jim beam wrote:

it's pretty much impossible to pour
more than about 30% of contents without spillage.

this is an excellent point. The amount of gas spilled using any type of
can far exceeds the amount of vapor saved by any new design.

GW

Steve W. wrote:
Oren wrote:
On Wed, 15 May 2013 16:23:23 +0000 (UTC), Brent
wrote:

A firearm milled in your basement will require the serial number,
registration, etc... By law.
Because criminals always care about paperwork laws. LOL.
The homemade gun has been around since there have been guns. It has
never been a problem of any significance. Why? Because someone with the
marketable skills required to make a firearm does not need to be a
criminal, is unlikely to be one, and criminals can get manufactured
firearms with less effort and cost.

I agree with that. Today, a homemade firearm has to have a serial if
it's sold or transferred. How many guns can one put in one lunch box.

Actually you cannot "sell" a firearm you made yourself.


I think you meant "cannot, legally, in some places, sell"...

GW

Geoff Welsh wrote:
Steve W. wrote:
Oren wrote:
On Wed, 15 May 2013 16:23:23 +0000 (UTC), Brent
wrote:

A firearm milled in your basement will require the serial number,
registration, etc... By law.
Because criminals always care about paperwork laws. LOL.
The homemade gun has been around since there have been guns. It has
never been a problem of any significance. Why? Because someone with the
marketable skills required to make a firearm does not need to be a
criminal, is unlikely to be one, and criminals can get manufactured
firearms with less effort and cost.
I agree with that. Today, a homemade firearm has to have a serial if
it's sold or transferred. How many guns can one put in one lunch box.
Actually you cannot "sell" a firearm you made yourself.


I think you meant "cannot, legally, in some places, sell"...

GW

Anywhere in the US and it's territories at least. The rest of the world ??

--
Steve W.

Per Oren:
The Feds have taken control of 3D plans from the
student in Austin. Scrubbed the Internet of the plans. Spit!

I took the whole thing as more of a proof-of-concept demonstration than
anything of actual utility.
--
Pete Cresswell

On Wed, 15 May 2013 14:03:37 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Actually you cannot "sell" a firearm you made yourself

oh, stop. Next you will me that a homemade firearm cannot be an
inheritance.

On Wed, 15 May 2013 16:23:23 +0000 (UTC), Brent
wrote:

On 2013-05-15, Oren wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013 21:06:06 +0000 (UTC), Brent
wrote:

And the FDM gun is just nonsense. People with skills and specialized
equipment could always make their own firearms.

The 3D printed gun has no provision in the law to require a serial
number, registration or background check. The gun grabbers have gone
nuts about it. The Feds have taken control of 3D plans from the
student in Austin. Scrubbed the Internet of the plans. Spit!

A firearm milled in your basement will require the serial number,
registration, etc... By law.

Because criminals always care about paperwork laws. LOL.

The homemade gun has been around since there have been guns. It has
never been a problem of any significance. Why? Because someone with the
marketable skills required to make a firearm does not need to be a
criminal, is unlikely to be one, and criminals can get manufactured
firearms with less effort and cost.


Yup. Most people won't spend a year or more writing a novel when you
just buy one for a few bucks.
In most places in the U.S. I can legally traffic in guns, buying and
selling with criminals, crazy folks, and terrorists.
It's all legal. No need to make a gun.

On Wed, 15 May 2013 05:02:37 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

On Tue, 14 May 2013 18:07:43 -0400, krw wrote:

When they make it illegal to own gas caps and toilets,
only criminals will have gas caps and toilets.

I have a secret plan to own what may be illegal!

I was told by the Plastics Group of Willowbrook, Illinois today, that
*nobody* bought the gasoline can molds from the now defunct Blitz USA of
Miami Oklahoma; but, at the same time, we are aware that Hopkins
Manufacturing Corp. of Emporia, Kansas paid $14.6 million for everything
*but* the gas can molds.

That means, if we're lucky, that the Hopkins Manufacturing *water* jugs
might use the *same cap* as the Blitz USA gasoline cans!

Not bloody likely.

To find out if that's true, I ordered a set of water jug caps from
Hopkins Manufacturing today.

Cross your fingers and maybe they'll fit!

Oren wrote:
On Wed, 15 May 2013 14:03:37 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Actually you cannot "sell" a firearm you made yourself

oh, stop. Next you will me that a homemade firearm cannot be an
inheritance.

Under US Federal law you can make a firearm for your own use. It does
not have to have any markings.


If you decide to transfer that gun to anyone then it has to be marked
ATF Wants
Maker's name
City (or county) and state where it was built
Model designation (if you wish, no real complaint if you don't)
Unique TO YOU serial number.
All required markings must be "permanent" to a specific depth and height.

BUT the catch then becomes numbers. If the ATF even suspects you are
making the firearms with the intent to sell them they will visit you.

--
Steve W.

On 05/14/2013 08:26 PM, jim beam wrote:
On 05/14/2013 07:39 AM, Danny D wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013 06:45:18 -0400, George wrote:

"EZ-POUR REPLACEMENT SPOUT KIT IS DESIGNED AND SOLD AS REPLACEMENT PARTS
SPECIFICALLY FOR PORTABLE FUEL CONTAINERS MANUFACTURED BEFORE JANUARY
2009"

This could be due to one of two possible reasons:
1. It could be legalese (as previously stated), or,
2. It might actually be the wrong threads.

I'll try calling Blitz again to see if they changed their threads:
Blitz U.S.A., Inc., 404 26th Ave. NW, Miami, OK 74354

Unfortunately, the Blitz USA hotline is out of commission:
24-hour Consumer Service Hotline at 877-922-5489
So is the Blitz local telephone number:
918-540-1515

I'm going to have to order a few caps just to see if they fit.
I may also buy the water jug caps, to see if they fit.

If anyone has *already* tested the cap, it would be nice to
see if they fit.

Maybe someone can test them side-by-side in the store?
(I'll check out my local stores to see if they have both
the water jugs and the gasoline jugs to test.)


ebay for "nato jerry can" and you'll have your solution.



For once, the Beam is 100% correct.

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On 05/15/2013 08:26 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 05/14/2013 08:26 PM, jim beam wrote:
On 05/14/2013 07:39 AM, Danny D wrote:
On Tue, 14 May 2013 06:45:18 -0400, George wrote:

"EZ-POUR REPLACEMENT SPOUT KIT IS DESIGNED AND SOLD AS REPLACEMENT
PARTS
SPECIFICALLY FOR PORTABLE FUEL CONTAINERS MANUFACTURED BEFORE JANUARY
2009"

This could be due to one of two possible reasons:
1. It could be legalese (as previously stated), or,
2. It might actually be the wrong threads.

I'll try calling Blitz again to see if they changed their threads:
Blitz U.S.A., Inc., 404 26th Ave. NW, Miami, OK 74354

Unfortunately, the Blitz USA hotline is out of commission:
24-hour Consumer Service Hotline at 877-922-5489
So is the Blitz local telephone number:
918-540-1515

I'm going to have to order a few caps just to see if they fit.
I may also buy the water jug caps, to see if they fit.

If anyone has *already* tested the cap, it would be nice to
see if they fit.

Maybe someone can test them side-by-side in the store?
(I'll check out my local stores to see if they have both
the water jugs and the gasoline jugs to test.)


ebay for "nato jerry can" and you'll have your solution.



For once, the Beam is 100% correct.


how does my ass smell, brown nose?


--
fact check required

I have one of these idiotic gas cans. I hate the damn thing with a
passion, but until I find a replacement older style can at a garage sale
or auction, I'm stuck with it. The other night I went to town after
dark. I needed some gas for my tractor, and I put about 4 gallons in
the 5 gal can, and placed it in the bed of my pickup truck, being sure
to tie it to the truck rail so it dont tip over and possibly spill. Gas
it too damn expensive to spill these days.

I got home late and was damn tired, so I went to sleep without putting
the gas can in the shed. The next day was hot and sunny with temps well
over 90 deg. Around noon I walked past my truck and noticed the gas can
had ballooned out. The can was so bloated it was actually round, and
was rocking back and forth from myself leaning against the truck. Only
the twine I used to tie it kept it from falling over. I released the
lever and a huge amount of gas smelling air came out. Even after
allowing all the air to escape, the can was still rounded. I then put
the can in the shed. Today the weather was cooler and when I went to
get the gas can, it had gone the other way, now it was all sucked
inward.

Those valves apparently do seal well, maybe too well. I wonder how much
longer that can would have held the huge amount of pressure inside of
it, sitting in the hot sun, before rupturing. And if I had not tied it,
it would have tipped over, because it was only the twine that held it
upright.

Somehow this does not seem safe. If the temperature had been higher,
I'm afraid it would have blown up. There needs to be some sort of
pressure relief on them, or KABOOM!

So much for government safety!

On Thu, 16 May 2013 01:08:11 -0500, repairs wrote:

Somehow this does not seem safe. If the temperature had been higher,
I'm afraid it would have blown up. There needs to be some sort of
pressure relief on them, or KABOOM!

While I agree with you that they blow up like a balloon, which
makes them tip over easily, I don't think they'll ever actually
explode from the 13 psi above atmospheric vapor pressure inside.

If you didn't see it, here's a picture I had posted of my 5-gallon
Blitz gasoline can where I took two cans from the shaded shed, and
put one in the sun, and the other next to it, in the shade, for
ten minutes ... look what happened:

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13045875.jpg

On 5/16/2013 2:08 AM, wrote:

Somehow this does not seem safe. If the temperature had been higher,
I'm afraid it would have blown up. There needs to be some sort of
pressure relief on them, or KABOOM!

So much for government safety!



Yah, this is serious ****. There should be a law that requires all new
gas cans have a charcoal canister/vapor recovery unit on them.

Remember, it's for the children!

On Thu, 16 May 2013 01:08:11 -0500, wrote in
Re Blitz gasoline cans
may be dangerous and explode:

I have one of these idiotic gas cans. I hate the damn thing with a
passion, but until I find a replacement older style can at a garage sale
or auction, I'm stuck with it. The other night I went to town after
dark. I needed some gas for my tractor, and I put about 4 gallons in
the 5 gal can, and placed it in the bed of my pickup truck, being sure
to tie it to the truck rail so it dont tip over and possibly spill. Gas
it too damn expensive to spill these days.

I got home late and was damn tired, so I went to sleep without putting
the gas can in the shed. The next day was hot and sunny with temps well
over 90 deg. Around noon I walked past my truck and noticed the gas can
had ballooned out. The can was so bloated it was actually round, and
was rocking back and forth from myself leaning against the truck. Only
the twine I used to tie it kept it from falling over. I released the
lever and a huge amount of gas smelling air came out. Even after
allowing all the air to escape, the can was still rounded. I then put
the can in the shed. Today the weather was cooler and when I went to
get the gas can, it had gone the other way, now it was all sucked
inward.

Those valves apparently do seal well, maybe too well. I wonder how much
longer that can would have held the huge amount of pressure inside of
it, sitting in the hot sun, before rupturing. And if I had not tied it,
it would have tipped over, because it was only the twine that held it
upright.

Somehow this does not seem safe. If the temperature had been higher,
I'm afraid it would have blown up. There needs to be some sort of
pressure relief on them, or KABOOM!

So much for government safety!

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's publication "AP-42:
Compilation of Air Pollution Emission Factors", Chapter 7, Table
7.1-2, publishes the True vapor pressures (in psia) for gasolines
having Reid Vapor Pressures of 7.

That Table 7.1-2 is at:
http://www.epa.gov/ttnchie1/ap42/ch07/final/c07s01.pdf

Extracted from the table

deg F: 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90 and 100
psi: 7.8, 8.3, 10, 11.5, 13, 13.5 and 15.

In your case the temp of the can was probably well over 100F so the
internal pressure was well over 15psi.

On Thu, 16 May 2013 05:48:11 -0500, CRNG wrote:

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's publication "AP-42:
Compilation of Air Pollution Emission Factors", Chapter 7, Table 7.1-2,
publishes the True vapor pressures (in psia) for gasolines having Reid
Vapor Pressures of 7.

Angus, at CARB, told me that the California Winter forumulation had a RVP
of 13.

Does that mean that California gasoline is more volatile than those
having an RVP of 7?

On 05/16/2013 01:08 AM, wrote:
I have one of these idiotic gas cans. I hate the damn thing with a
passion,

The lack of a vent makes flow erratic. I'll be filling my mower, and it
has slowed to a trickle. Then along comes a burst, causing gas to spill
on the mower.

[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"And then, one Thursday nearly two thousand years after one man had been
nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people
for a change..."

On May 16, 10:07*am, "Danny D." wrote:
On Thu, 16 May 2013 05:48:11 -0500, CRNG wrote:
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's publication "AP-42:
Compilation of Air Pollution Emission Factors", Chapter 7, Table 7.1-2,
publishes the True vapor pressures (in psia) *for gasolines having Reid
Vapor Pressures of 7.

Angus, at CARB, told me that the California Winter forumulation had a RVP
of 13.

Does that mean that California gasoline is more volatile than those
having an RVP of 7?

I use gasoline to clean bearings before repacking. Just a little in a
small pan.

Much of the gasoline NEVER evaporates. just a one inch deep sluge
remains 3 weeks later.

i have tried using bearing cleaner without much success.......

its a big job getting to them, and i dont want to have to do the job
again because all the crud wasnt removed....

jim beam wrote in :

bottom line, these things need to be re-thought. preferably by someone
with a car.

and a brain.

"Steve W." wrote in :

Actually you cannot "sell" a firearm you made yourself.

Of course you can. It appears you need to look up the difference between "can" and "may".

Perhaps you meant "cannot *legally* sell" -- which of course is very different from "cannot
sell".

With certain exceptions a firearm may be made by a non-licensee provided
it is not for sale and the maker is not prohibited from possessing
firearms. However, a person is prohibited from assembling a non-sporting
semi-automatic rifle or non-sporting shotgun from imported parts.

Prohibited. Not prevented.

In
addition, the making of an NFA firearm requires a tax payment and
approval by ATF. An application to make a machine gun will not be
approved unless documentation is submitted showing that the firearm is
being made for a Federal or State agency.

And of course all persons with criminal intent will comply with those requirements, right?