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#81
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
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#82
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
In article , George
wrote: n So what is the problem? Did you ever consider the powerful databases that exist today and how much information is in them? My little town can definitely fit in the miniscule category and it is divided up into three different districts. I can go to the government web site and pump in my address and it will instantly tell me what district I am in. If I pump in an address one block away it correctly tells me that location is in a different district. A database that is for one (you yourself say) small area and answering only one question. Not really the same as one state, many counties, untold cities, and bunches of smaller taxing districts.. and then do the same for 50 other states. I am not saying it can't be done, I am just saying that the burden to the company is a few orders of magnitude different, including upkeep on your DBs. I -- People thought cybersex was a safe alternative, until patients started presenting with sexually acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz |
#83
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On 11/24/11 09:14 am, George wrote:
I recall something like that too. There have been different VATs proposed too. Some of that type of tax sounds good to the uneducated because they think the consumer will no longer pay the tax, but businesses will instead. It all comes out in the cost of goods sold. We should be more concerned about government spending. The problem with a VAT is that is a great cover for weasel politicians who don't want anyone to realize how badly they are doing their job. As you noted many would simply think that the business is paying and not them. A tax that is totally obvious and applied in one place (example, no other taxes except a 38% sales tax) is a great thing because it would make people do a lot more thinking on election day. I don't think I've made any significant purchases of taxable goods in any country that has VAT, but AIUI the tax rate may vary from one kind of item to another and the tax rate is not necessarily published in the store or at the cash register -- the tax is already included in the displayed price. A student from Zambia told me that their sales taxes (varying rates) are included in the displayed price but the receipts show the tax paid on each item. Perce |
#84
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
Vic Smith wrote:
All of this is extremely simple on the software/comm side. Already being done. Ever think about the mechanics of walking a step? You can write a thousand pages to make that look complicated too. And it is. Sales tax is trivial in comparison. Of course taxes are man-made. The shopping cart software I use can be configured to add a pre-set percentage for each STATE, but that is not accurate enough. I drive 5 miles north to Montgomery Co. and there is no METRO tax of 1% like Harris County. Sales tax by State is easy, by all the little municipalities, it's not. Now that I've collected taxes from the: "45 states and the District of Columbia [that] impose sales and use taxes on the retail sale"* . What the hell am I supposed to do, file 46 extra returns every quarter? I don't think so. Would I have to get a sales tax certificate in each State I sell stuff to? I'm not doing it. Texas residents are charged 8.25% because that is the rate at my physical location. If the other states want me to collect taxes for them, there will have to be an incentive. It would take considerable time, money, and effort to do that. * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_t..._United_States -- "I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality. If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us, We're going to kill you first, period." October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report) |
#85
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
Nancy Young email@replyto wrote in news:4ece5b8b$0$28478$a8266bb1
@newsreader.readnews.com: There is a line on my state's income tax form where you're supposed to be reporting all of these out-of-state purchases and cough up the sales tax you owe. I'm pretty sure most people ignore it, besides, that would be a lot of purchases to keep track of. I believe most states will adjust that line if there is no evidence to back up a zero amount. I know NY and NJ would. -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
#86
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article , Ed Pawlowski wrote: Aside from the fact that donuts will probably not be sold mailorder often, how do the big stores do it now? They have stores in every state, yet manage to do all of this already. Sure, it will be some expense, but it is merely adapting existing software. Some Internet sellers collect tax in multiple states already. Because of the physical presence thing. They charge sales taxes because of where they are. It is one place that doesn't have to ask if the person they are selling to is in one of the weird districts. The sales taxes for the Internet, at least as currently being discussed, are not based on where one building is, but rather where the building they are sending it to is. Whole other ball of wax. Exactly. -- "I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality. If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us, We're going to kill you first, period." October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report) |
#87
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in
: On 11/24/11 09:14 am, George wrote: I recall something like that too. There have been different VATs proposed too. Some of that type of tax sounds good to the uneducated because they think the consumer will no longer pay the tax, but businesses will instead. It all comes out in the cost of goods sold. We should be more concerned about government spending. The problem with a VAT is that is a great cover for weasel politicians who don't want anyone to realize how badly they are doing their job. As you noted many would simply think that the business is paying and not them. A tax that is totally obvious and applied in one place (example, no other taxes except a 38% sales tax) is a great thing because it would make people do a lot more thinking on election day. I don't think I've made any significant purchases of taxable goods in any country that has VAT, but AIUI the tax rate may vary from one kind of item to another and the tax rate is not necessarily published in the store or at the cash register -- the tax is already included in the displayed price. A student from Zambia told me that their sales taxes (varying rates) are included in the displayed price but the receipts show the tax paid on each item. Perce That's the way it is in Europe as well. I still find it disconcerting here that the price you get quoted for an item is NOT the final price, since it doesn't include taxes and fees. That is especially cumbersome for hotels etc, where there may be lodging taxes on top of everything else. Talkinf about taxation without representation!!! -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
#88
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
If you can make a simple spreadsheet, you can do the sales tax thing. You've obviously not seen the "back-end" of shopping cart software. There is no provision on any I seen/worked with of that lets you base tax on the buyers exact location (only State). This is not a simple implementation from a tech. viewpoint at all. Tax has to calculated in real-time, not by some guy reading off a spreadsheet. Plus, how is a one-man operation going to keep up with filing tax returns in 45+ States? I'm not selling IN their state, just shipping TO the state. I'm not going out of my way to collect taxes for other states, not my responsibility. -- "I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality. If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us, We're going to kill you first, period." October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report) |
#89
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
Peter wrote:
I'm amazed that so many technically sophisticated posters consider the issue of automated software managing the sales tax calculation for on-line business to be unworkable. Not entirely unworkable, but not as easy as typing a few lines of code either. We probably all have been exposed to essentially real time updating of huge relational databases. We're not computing in the 1980s folks. Look how long it takes google to accomplish a search with their custom algorithms, even for arcane keywords. I think you over-estimate the difficulty. I suspect some company, maybe even a start-up, could make a bundle by developing the software accompanied by a user subscription charge for ongoing auto-updates of the database (analogous to the auto-updates of the signature files for our anti-virus programs). Still is the matter of getting the tax to the States, unless they make a clearinghouse of some sort. How is the one-man shop (or any non-giant like Amazon) going to file quarterly returns to states he/she does not have a sales/use tax permit in? -- "I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality. If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us, We're going to kill you first, period." October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report) |
#90
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
In article , Peter
wrote: Usually when you live in one town but have an address for the city next to it, the town has a different zip code than the city. (That's my circumstance as well.) It is very rare for cities large enough to impose a sales tax to have the same zip codes as communities outside that city's legal boundary. Just along the border between Indy and Carmel/Fishers there are three zips that cross the border (46240, 46256, 46055). Heck there is one zip code that crosses Hancock, Hamilton, and Madison Counties. It isn't the communities that count, it is the house that stuff is being delivered to. -- People thought cybersex was a safe alternative, until patients started presenting with sexually acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz |
#91
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:28:46 -0600, G. Morgan
wrote: The shopping cart software I use can be configured to add a pre-set percentage for each STATE, but that is not accurate enough. I drive 5 miles north to Montgomery Co. and there is no METRO tax of 1% like Harris County. Sales tax by State is easy, by all the little municipalities, it's not. I know. The people saying it can be done will come up with all kinds of computer necessary scenarios, like putting a man on the moon or walking in outer space. They obviously are nuts. 50 sales tax rates? No way. |
#92
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:45:35 -0600, G. Morgan
wrote: Ed Pawlowski wrote: If you can make a simple spreadsheet, you can do the sales tax thing. You've obviously not seen the "back-end" of shopping cart software. There is no provision on any I seen/worked with of that lets you base tax on the buyers exact location (only State). This is not a simple implementation from a tech. viewpoint at all. Tax has to calculated in real-time, not by some guy reading off a spreadsheet. Plus, how is a one-man operation going to keep up with filing tax returns in 45+ States? I'm not selling IN their state, just shipping TO the state. I'm not going out of my way to collect taxes for other states, not my responsibility. The states (at least for now) are not going after the one man operation. They are going after the ones selling hundreds of millions of dollars in product. How does Sears do it with their catalog sales? It is not that hard. It is done now by many stores that have large operations and a presence in many states. |
#93
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:33:00 -0600, G. Morgan
wrote: Kurt Ullman wrote: In article , Ed Pawlowski wrote: Aside from the fact that donuts will probably not be sold mailorder often, how do the big stores do it now? They have stores in every state, yet manage to do all of this already. Sure, it will be some expense, but it is merely adapting existing software. Some Internet sellers collect tax in multiple states already. Because of the physical presence thing. They charge sales taxes because of where they are. It is one place that doesn't have to ask if the person they are selling to is in one of the weird districts. The sales taxes for the Internet, at least as currently being discussed, are not based on where one building is, but rather where the building they are sending it to is. Whole other ball of wax. Exactly. BS. It is done already by many retailers that have catalog operations. Sears, Monkey Ward, etc. . |
#94
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
It is done already by many retailers that have catalog operations. Sears, Monkey Ward, etc. Careful - you're showing your age there. Wards has been out of business for close to 20 years now. |
#95
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On 24 Nov 2011 14:29:21 GMT, Han wrote:
George wrote in : On 11/24/2011 7:52 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: I recall something like that too. There have been different VATs proposed too. Some of that type of tax sounds good to the uneducated because they think the consumer will no longer pay the tax, but businesses will instead. It all comes out in the cost of goods sold. We should be more concerned about government spending. The problem with a VAT is that is a great cover for weasel politicians who don't want anyone to realize how badly they are doing their job. As you noted many would simply think that the business is paying and not them. One of the real problems with instituting a VAT is that merchants, anxious thata they may not recoup the taxes they'd have to pay, increase their prices to cover any possible shortfall. That means there will be instant 10% or higher inflation. At least that is what was experienced in Holland upon instituting the VAT. (European VAT can go higher than 20% depending on the "luxury" status of the merchandise). The difference is that the European countries didn't eliminate all other taxes at the same time. The idea behind the "Fair Tax" is that all of the hidden taxes get eliminated so the end cost to the consumer doesn't change (much). It'll never happen because it will make government waste evident - every day. A tax that is totally obvious and applied in one place (example, no other taxes except a 38% sales tax) is a great thing because it would make people do a lot more thinking on election day. Whom do you think will get hit by a 38% more than others? WHo will be able to afford it best? No one. That's the point. |
#96
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:30:33 -0500, George wrote:
On 11/23/2011 5:27 PM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:06:34 -0500, wrote: I (and several others) have already explained why the postal address is useless for accurately determining sales tax jurisdiction. If you don't care to read (or can't) that's not my problem. Really, please identify where I claimed a ZIP code is sufficient. Are you actually capable of a dialogue or just juvenile insults? When you show that you're capable of reading, I'll stop calling you an imbecile. Truth hurts, too bad. |
#97
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On 24 Nov 2011 15:31:54 GMT, Han wrote:
Nancy Young email@replyto wrote in news:4ece5b8b$0$28478$a8266bb1 : There is a line on my state's income tax form where you're supposed to be reporting all of these out-of-state purchases and cough up the sales tax you owe. I'm pretty sure most people ignore it, besides, that would be a lot of purchases to keep track of. I believe most states will adjust that line if there is no evidence to back up a zero amount. I know NY and NJ would. How could they possibly adjust the amount on a form and still have a form that can hold up in a fraud case? You would be requiring people to sign a fraudulent document. How do you supply "evidence of a zero amount"? "OK, I have zero evidence of the actual amount!" ....not that I would put either past those two cesspools. |
#98
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 07:54:37 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 00:21:13 -0600, " wrote: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 23:11:06 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 10:12:13 -0600, " wrote: A friend lived in one town but had an address for the city next to it. I lived a couple of blocks closer to the city (same subdivision) but had a town address. The tax rates were substantially different. How does your simple model handle this? Simple. They don't care what the town address is. They are collecting STATE sales tax, not city or down or other districts. The city is SOL That's not reality. The state collects the tax and remits it to the other taxing authorities. If it is not collected for them, there is nothing to remit. Let each town bring its own law suite against Amazon. The *STATES* will sue Amazon. The STATES collect taxes for the lower-level taxing authorities. They don't have to figure it out, businesses do. It's unworkable (and constantly getting worse). |
#99
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 10:09:39 -0500, Peter wrote:
On 11/23/2011 11:12 AM, zzzzzzzzzz wrote: A friend lived in one town but had an address for the city next to it. I lived a couple of blocks closer to the city (same subdivision) but had a town address. The tax rates were substantially different. How does your simple model handle this? Are you talking about sales tax rate or school/real estate tax rate? Sales tax. I don't think Amazon is being asked to collect real estate tax. ;-) I'm very familiar with the latter, the former is less common. Usually when you live in one town but have an address for the city next to it, the town has a different zip code than the city. (That's my circumstance as well.) It is very rare for cities large enough to impose a sales tax to have the same zip codes as communities outside that city's legal boundary. He lived in a town outside the city but had a city address (and, of course, zip code). His sales tax *should* have been charged at the town rate, regardless of his city street address. It was very difficult to get that through to anyone, though. I actually lived between him and the city, in the same subdivision, yet had a town address (and zip code, obviously). There is no rationalizing the way the USPS works. My mother's house, in a different state, also has a different postal address city/town/village than what is recorded on the property deed, and a different zip code. Neither jurisdiction is large enough to have imposed their own sales tax. They do have different school taxes. Different issues. BTW, it doesn't take a "large city" to have a different sales tax rate. It can even vary within a municipal entity. |
#101
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:51:49 -0600, G. Morgan
wrote: Peter wrote: I'm amazed that so many technically sophisticated posters consider the issue of automated software managing the sales tax calculation for on-line business to be unworkable. Not entirely unworkable, but not as easy as typing a few lines of code either. We probably all have been exposed to essentially real time updating of huge relational databases. We're not computing in the 1980s folks. Look how long it takes google to accomplish a search with their custom algorithms, even for arcane keywords. I think you over-estimate the difficulty. I suspect some company, maybe even a start-up, could make a bundle by developing the software accompanied by a user subscription charge for ongoing auto-updates of the database (analogous to the auto-updates of the signature files for our anti-virus programs). Still is the matter of getting the tax to the States, unless they make a clearinghouse of some sort. How is the one-man shop (or any non-giant like Amazon) going to file quarterly returns to states he/she does not have a sales/use tax permit in? I know! Use BMI or ASCAP! That'll solve the states' collection problems. ....for a small fee. |
#102
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:27:41 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:33:00 -0600, G. Morgan wrote: Kurt Ullman wrote: In article , Ed Pawlowski wrote: Aside from the fact that donuts will probably not be sold mailorder often, how do the big stores do it now? They have stores in every state, yet manage to do all of this already. Sure, it will be some expense, but it is merely adapting existing software. Some Internet sellers collect tax in multiple states already. Because of the physical presence thing. They charge sales taxes because of where they are. It is one place that doesn't have to ask if the person they are selling to is in one of the weird districts. The sales taxes for the Internet, at least as currently being discussed, are not based on where one building is, but rather where the building they are sending it to is. Whole other ball of wax. Exactly. BS. It is done already by many retailers that have catalog operations. Sears, Monkey Ward, etc. . They ship to stores. Those purchases shipped to homes have the same intractable problem and people are constantly being over/under charged. Half object but no one cares. |
#103
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:10:57 -0800 (PST), BobR
wrote: On Nov 24, 11:26*am, " wrote: On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:30:33 -0500, George wrote: On 11/23/2011 5:27 PM, wrote: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:06:34 -0500, *wrote: I (and several others) have already explained why the postal address is useless for accurately determining sales tax jurisdiction. *If you don't care to read (or can't) that's not my problem. Really, please identify where I claimed a ZIP code is sufficient. Are you actually capable of a dialogue or just juvenile insults? When you show that you're capable of reading, I'll stop calling you an imbecile. *Truth hurts, too bad. I guess you pretty much answered his question. Nothing but juvenile insults. Ah, I hurt your feelings too. Don't worry, Barak will take care of you, too. |
#104
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:12:30 -0800 (PST), BobR
wrote: On Nov 23, 4:30*pm, " wrote: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 13:48:41 -0800 (PST), BobR wrote: On Nov 23, 7:57*am, "HeyBub" wrote: Peter wrote: On 11/23/2011 6:52 AM, G. Morgan wrote: **** 'em. *I'm in Texas and will only collect tax for Texas. *What a bunch of convoluted nonsense. *How are online stores supposed to keep up with all that? It's called software. *It will be automatic, similar to the way the on-line web sites calculate shipping costs based on destination zip code, package weight, and choice of shipping method. It's considerably more complicated than dropping in a sales tax calculator. First, there are about 11,000 sales tax jurisdictions in the U.S. Second, the boundaries of these jurisdictions change on an almost daily basis, for example, when a city with a sales tax enlarges its corporate limits or changes its tax rate. The "drop-in" software will require periodic updates. It's not for nothing that tax lawyers are often called "loose-leaf lawyers." Several hours a week their associates are tasked with updating the tax law reference books with tax law changes that took place in just the past few days. But these confusions pale into insignificance when compared to two other considerations: 1. What is taxed is highly variable. In New York, magazines are tax exempt while newspapers are subject to the sales tax. It's the exact reverse in California (that's why the NY Post has a staple - it's thereby permantly bound, exempt from the tax, and has a 9% competitive advantage over its competitors). Just in my state, a single donut is taxable, but six or more are not! This oddity, alone, could require 11,000 possible taxing flags (plus quantity modifiers) for each item the company sells. In some places, prescription drugs are exempt while OTC drugs are taxed. What about an OTC drug on a prescription? (See the recent changes to Medical Savings Accounts regarding drug purchases.) 2. The reporting requirements are staggering. Imagine sending several hundred or thousand reports - and checks - monthly, quarterly, semiannually, or yearly depending on the reporting requirements of each taxing authority. It's more than a body can bear! Brick & Mortar stores have one competitive advantage: the convenience of immediacy. Just like your neighborhood Stop & Rob, you can get your merchandise right now. If the B&M stores can't make it with this advantage, they should hire an 11-year old male as a web master and start selling online. Aside: There IS an alternative: Amazon, or whoever, could simply provide a list of each purchaser's name, address, and amount to each state comptroller and let the STATE struggle with trying to collect the taxes. If it's too big a job, or financially imprudent, to do so, what makes anyone think that putting that burden on hundreds of thousands of merchants is better? A lot of very weak excuses but no real reason that internet and catalogue retailers should be exempt from collecting sales tax. Being unconstitutional is "no real reason"? *...or can't you read? The states already maintain the database and I am sure they would be happy to keep the retailers updated via the internet. OK, you've proven that you're illiterate.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - OK, you have proven that you're a ****ing asshole. Congratulations! Ah, I made the little kid swear. Mommy is going to be mad at me! Oh, and you are totally and consistantly wrong. You're too stupid to know which way is up. Democrats/progressives are like that. |
#105
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:15:15 -0800 (PST), BobR
wrote: On Nov 24, 11:31*am, " wrote: On 24 Nov 2011 15:31:54 GMT, Han wrote: Nancy Young email@replyto wrote in news:4ece5b8b$0$28478$a8266bb1 : There is a line on my state's income tax form where you're supposed to be reporting all of these out-of-state purchases and cough up the sales tax you owe. *I'm pretty sure most people ignore it, besides, that would be a lot of purchases to keep track of. I believe most states will adjust that line if there is no evidence to back up a zero amount. *I know NY and NJ would. How could they possibly adjust the amount on a form and still have a form that can hold up in a fraud case? *You would be requiring people to sign a fraudulent document. How do you supply "evidence of a zero amount"? *"OK, I have zero evidence of the actual amount!" ...not that I would put either past those two cesspools. Gee, how do you even get out of bed in the morning...it's impossible. I suppose you would need help. Hint: a foot at a time, then sit up. Now, I've doubled your IQ. That's pretty good for one day. |
#106
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:05:55 -0800 (PST), BobR
wrote: On Nov 23, 4:33*pm, " wrote: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 13:57:20 -0800 (PST), BobR wrote: On Nov 23, 10:13*am, " wrote: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 08:16:33 -0500, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: I think the legislators aren't allowed to consider the cost of implementing. Just to consider the revenue benfits from the taxes. So, the people who write the law don't have any concern for how much it costs private industry to comply with their new law. No, it's really simpler than that. *If they don't see it, it doesn't exist. IOW, legislators are stupid, but you knew that. Yes, most legislators are rather stupid but then you are showing a few signs of the same problem. You've proven that you're illiterate. *Seems you should start, here, by loaloking in the mirror. Sorry but you are clearly clueless about the available software and what it can do. You're 100% wrong, but that is no surprise to anyone either. It's not what *SOFTWARE* can do. It's what the garbage-in can do. Morons like you are easily convinced of SMOP. Oh, and the problem has already been solved many times over. Oh, no, it most certainly has not. *States can't even keep it straight.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Bull****. Wrong, as always. There are already companies that collect sales tax over the internet and have been for years. They are required to because they have both B&M as well as internet sales so they don't have an excuse. ....and they *all* have problems with the corner cases. |
#107
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On Nov 24, 3:55*pm, "
wrote: On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:10:57 -0800 (PST), BobR wrote: On Nov 24, 11:26*am, " wrote: On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:30:33 -0500, George wrote: On 11/23/2011 5:27 PM, wrote: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:06:34 -0500, *wrote: I (and several others) have already explained why the postal address is useless for accurately determining sales tax jurisdiction. *If you don't care to read (or can't) that's not my problem. Really, please identify where I claimed a ZIP code is sufficient. Are you actually capable of a dialogue or just juvenile insults? When you show that you're capable of reading, I'll stop calling you an imbecile. *Truth hurts, too bad. I guess you pretty much answered his question. *Nothing but juvenile insults. Ah, I hurt your feelings too. *Don't worry, Barak will take care of you, too.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You aren't capable of hurting my feelings, you have no significance. |
#108
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On Nov 24, 3:56*pm, "
wrote: On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:12:30 -0800 (PST), BobR wrote: On Nov 23, 4:30*pm, " wrote: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 13:48:41 -0800 (PST), BobR wrote: On Nov 23, 7:57*am, "HeyBub" wrote: Peter wrote: On 11/23/2011 6:52 AM, G. Morgan wrote: **** 'em. *I'm in Texas and will only collect tax for Texas. *What a bunch of convoluted nonsense. *How are online stores supposed to keep up with all that? It's called software. *It will be automatic, similar to the way the on-line web sites calculate shipping costs based on destination zip code, package weight, and choice of shipping method. It's considerably more complicated than dropping in a sales tax calculator. First, there are about 11,000 sales tax jurisdictions in the U.S. Second, the boundaries of these jurisdictions change on an almost daily basis, for example, when a city with a sales tax enlarges its corporate limits or changes its tax rate. The "drop-in" software will require periodic updates. It's not for nothing that tax lawyers are often called "loose-leaf lawyers." Several hours a week their associates are tasked with updating the tax law reference books with tax law changes that took place in just the past few days. But these confusions pale into insignificance when compared to two other considerations: 1. What is taxed is highly variable. In New York, magazines are tax exempt while newspapers are subject to the sales tax. It's the exact reverse in California (that's why the NY Post has a staple - it's thereby permantly bound, exempt from the tax, and has a 9% competitive advantage over its competitors). Just in my state, a single donut is taxable, but six or more are not! This oddity, alone, could require 11,000 possible taxing flags (plus quantity modifiers) for each item the company sells. In some places, prescription drugs are exempt while OTC drugs are taxed. What about an OTC drug on a prescription? (See the recent changes to Medical Savings Accounts regarding drug purchases.) 2. The reporting requirements are staggering. Imagine sending several hundred or thousand reports - and checks - monthly, quarterly, semiannually, or yearly depending on the reporting requirements of each taxing authority. It's more than a body can bear! Brick & Mortar stores have one competitive advantage: the convenience of immediacy. Just like your neighborhood Stop & Rob, you can get your merchandise right now. If the B&M stores can't make it with this advantage, they should hire an 11-year old male as a web master and start selling online. Aside: There IS an alternative: Amazon, or whoever, could simply provide a list of each purchaser's name, address, and amount to each state comptroller and let the STATE struggle with trying to collect the taxes. If it's too big a job, or financially imprudent, to do so, what makes anyone think that putting that burden on hundreds of thousands of merchants is better? A lot of very weak excuses but no real reason that internet and catalogue retailers should be exempt from collecting sales tax. Being unconstitutional is "no real reason"? *...or can't you read? The states already maintain the database and I am sure they would be happy to keep the retailers updated via the internet. OK, you've proven that you're illiterate.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - OK, you have proven that you're a ****ing asshole. *Congratulations! Ah, I made the little kid swear. *Mommy is going to be mad at me! Just calls them as they are and you are clearly a ****ing asshole. Oh, and you are totally and consistantly wrong. You're too stupid to know which way is up. *Democrats/progressives are like that Like I said, consistantly wrong about everything. |
#109
Posted to alt.home.repair
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On Nov 24, 4:00*pm, "
wrote: On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:05:55 -0800 (PST), BobR wrote: On Nov 23, 4:33*pm, " wrote: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 13:57:20 -0800 (PST), BobR wrote: On Nov 23, 10:13*am, " wrote: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 08:16:33 -0500, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: I think the legislators aren't allowed to consider the cost of implementing. Just to consider the revenue benfits from the taxes. So, the people who write the law don't have any concern for how much it costs private industry to comply with their new law. No, it's really simpler than that. *If they don't see it, it doesn't exist. IOW, legislators are stupid, but you knew that. Yes, most legislators are rather stupid but then you are showing a few signs of the same problem. You've proven that you're illiterate. *Seems you should start, here, by loaloking in the mirror. Sorry but you are clearly clueless about the available software and what it can do. You're 100% wrong, but that is no surprise to anyone either. *It's not what *SOFTWARE* can do. *It's what the garbage-in can do. *Morons like you are easily convinced of SMOP. Are you really so damn stupid that you actually believe that? I guess you are but damn, I didn't think anyone could be that damn stupid. I am convinced that YOU are incapable of solving this very simple problem that just because you are stupid doesn't mean that everyone else is. Hell, this isn't even a very difficult problem with the information that is easily available to anyone with an honest desire to find it and use it. Most internet companies just simply don't want to bother, they have an advantage and they want to keep it. Well **** THEM and you to Oh, and the problem has already been solved many times over. Oh, no, it most certainly has not. *States can't even keep it straight.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Bull****. Wrong, as always. There are already companies that collect sales tax over the internet and have been for years. *They are required to because they have both B&M as well as internet sales so they don't have an excuse. ...and they *all* have problems with the corner cases Then maybe they are too damn ignorant to be in business in the first place. |
#110
Posted to alt.home.repair
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:31:53 -0800 (PST), BobR
wrote: On Nov 24, 3:55*pm, " wrote: On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:10:57 -0800 (PST), BobR wrote: On Nov 24, 11:26*am, " wrote: On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 09:30:33 -0500, George wrote: On 11/23/2011 5:27 PM, wrote: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:06:34 -0500, *wrote: I (and several others) have already explained why the postal address is useless for accurately determining sales tax jurisdiction. *If you don't care to read (or can't) that's not my problem. Really, please identify where I claimed a ZIP code is sufficient. Are you actually capable of a dialogue or just juvenile insults? When you show that you're capable of reading, I'll stop calling you an imbecile. *Truth hurts, too bad. I guess you pretty much answered his question. *Nothing but juvenile insults. Ah, I hurt your feelings too. *Don't worry, Barak will take care of you, too.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You aren't capable of hurting my feelings, you have no significance. Yet you can't resist answering. Got it. |
#111
Posted to alt.home.repair
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:33:57 -0800 (PST), BobR
wrote: On Nov 24, 3:56*pm, " wrote: On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:12:30 -0800 (PST), BobR wrote: On Nov 23, 4:30*pm, " wrote: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 13:48:41 -0800 (PST), BobR wrote: On Nov 23, 7:57*am, "HeyBub" wrote: Peter wrote: On 11/23/2011 6:52 AM, G. Morgan wrote: **** 'em. *I'm in Texas and will only collect tax for Texas. *What a bunch of convoluted nonsense. *How are online stores supposed to keep up with all that? It's called software. *It will be automatic, similar to the way the on-line web sites calculate shipping costs based on destination zip code, package weight, and choice of shipping method. It's considerably more complicated than dropping in a sales tax calculator. First, there are about 11,000 sales tax jurisdictions in the U.S. Second, the boundaries of these jurisdictions change on an almost daily basis, for example, when a city with a sales tax enlarges its corporate limits or changes its tax rate. The "drop-in" software will require periodic updates. It's not for nothing that tax lawyers are often called "loose-leaf lawyers." Several hours a week their associates are tasked with updating the tax law reference books with tax law changes that took place in just the past few days. But these confusions pale into insignificance when compared to two other considerations: 1. What is taxed is highly variable. In New York, magazines are tax exempt while newspapers are subject to the sales tax. It's the exact reverse in California (that's why the NY Post has a staple - it's thereby permantly bound, exempt from the tax, and has a 9% competitive advantage over its competitors). Just in my state, a single donut is taxable, but six or more are not! This oddity, alone, could require 11,000 possible taxing flags (plus quantity modifiers) for each item the company sells. In some places, prescription drugs are exempt while OTC drugs are taxed. What about an OTC drug on a prescription? (See the recent changes to Medical Savings Accounts regarding drug purchases.) 2. The reporting requirements are staggering. Imagine sending several hundred or thousand reports - and checks - monthly, quarterly, semiannually, or yearly depending on the reporting requirements of each taxing authority. It's more than a body can bear! Brick & Mortar stores have one competitive advantage: the convenience of immediacy. Just like your neighborhood Stop & Rob, you can get your merchandise right now. If the B&M stores can't make it with this advantage, they should hire an 11-year old male as a web master and start selling online. Aside: There IS an alternative: Amazon, or whoever, could simply provide a list of each purchaser's name, address, and amount to each state comptroller and let the STATE struggle with trying to collect the taxes. If it's too big a job, or financially imprudent, to do so, what makes anyone think that putting that burden on hundreds of thousands of merchants is better? A lot of very weak excuses but no real reason that internet and catalogue retailers should be exempt from collecting sales tax. Being unconstitutional is "no real reason"? *...or can't you read? The states already maintain the database and I am sure they would be happy to keep the retailers updated via the internet. OK, you've proven that you're illiterate.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - OK, you have proven that you're a ****ing asshole. *Congratulations! Ah, I made the little kid swear. *Mommy is going to be mad at me! Just calls them as they are and you are clearly a ****ing asshole. Yet you just can't resist answering my posts. Oh, and you are totally and consistantly wrong. You're too stupid to know which way is up. *Democrats/progressives are like that Like I said, consistantly wrong about everything. You really are that stupid. |
#112
Posted to alt.home.repair
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 19:40:45 -0800 (PST), BobR
wrote: On Nov 24, 4:00*pm, " wrote: On Thu, 24 Nov 2011 11:05:55 -0800 (PST), BobR wrote: On Nov 23, 4:33*pm, " wrote: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 13:57:20 -0800 (PST), BobR wrote: On Nov 23, 10:13*am, " wrote: On Wed, 23 Nov 2011 08:16:33 -0500, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: I think the legislators aren't allowed to consider the cost of implementing. Just to consider the revenue benfits from the taxes. So, the people who write the law don't have any concern for how much it costs private industry to comply with their new law. No, it's really simpler than that. *If they don't see it, it doesn't exist. IOW, legislators are stupid, but you knew that. Yes, most legislators are rather stupid but then you are showing a few signs of the same problem. You've proven that you're illiterate. *Seems you should start, here, by loaloking in the mirror. Sorry but you are clearly clueless about the available software and what it can do. You're 100% wrong, but that is no surprise to anyone either. *It's not what *SOFTWARE* can do. *It's what the garbage-in can do. *Morons like you are easily convinced of SMOP. Are you really so damn stupid that you actually believe that? I guess you are but damn, I didn't think anyone could be that damn stupid. You lead one to no other conclusion, dummy. I am convinced that YOU are incapable of solving this very simple problem that just because you are stupid doesn't mean that everyone else is. Hell, this isn't even a very difficult problem with the information that is easily available to anyone with an honest desire to find it and use it. Most internet companies just simply don't want to bother, they have an advantage and they want to keep it. Everyone is convinced that you're too dumb to breathe. Then again, maybe that's why you're so damned dumb. Well **** THEM and you to ....yet you just can't stop posting replies to my posts. That *is* stupid, but this is no surprise. Oh, and the problem has already been solved many times over. Oh, no, it most certainly has not. *States can't even keep it straight.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Bull****. Wrong, as always. There are already companies that collect sales tax over the internet and have been for years. *They are required to because they have both B&M as well as internet sales so they don't have an excuse. ...and they *all* have problems with the corner cases Then maybe they are too damn ignorant to be in business in the first place. Good God, you're stupid! |
#113
Posted to alt.home.repair
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
" krwatt.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote:
BobR reed1 r-a-reed-assoc.com wrote: " wrote: BobR wrote: I guess you pretty much answered his question. Nothing but juvenile insults. Ah, I hurt your feelings too. Don't worry, Barak will take care of you, too. You aren't capable of hurting my feelings, you have no significance. Yet you can't resist answering. Got it. I can resist answering. |
#114
Posted to alt.home.repair
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
On 25 Nov 2011 05:21:56 GMT, John Doe wrote:
" krwatt.bizzzzzzzzzzzz wrote: BobR reed1 r-a-reed-assoc.com wrote: " wrote: BobR wrote: I guess you pretty much answered his question. Nothing but juvenile insults. Ah, I hurt your feelings too. Don't worry, Barak will take care of you, too. You aren't capable of hurting my feelings, you have no significance. Yet you can't resist answering. Got it. I can resist answering. Then please do. |
#115
Posted to alt.home.repair
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
BobR wrote:
I am convinced that YOU are incapable of solving this very simple problem that just because you are stupid doesn't mean that everyone else is. Hell, this isn't even a very difficult problem with the information that is easily available to anyone with an honest desire to find it and use it. Most internet companies just simply don't want to bother, they have an advantage and they want to keep it. Well **** THEM and you to This is not a "very simple" problem. Getting the exact sales tax percent for the delivery address is not in any database I know of. Even if the data was readily available, there is no current way of implementing it with off-the-shelf 'shopping cart' software. If the software could do it by a database lookup (would have to be zip+4), that's only one hurdle overcome. How does the small-time merchant get the tax monies to the state it was collected for? Are we expected to get sales/use certificates in every damn state? Do they expect that 'we' small merchants file a quarterly return in every state? I have a hard enough time doing it for the feds and Texas every 3 months, there is no way in hell I could do that x50. It may be just the "big" guys now like Amazon, but they will eventually try to get all the tax revenue they can. I'm not going to do that unless they make it 2-click easy (and free). The way it stands now, it would actually be illegal for me to collect tax in any state besides my home state. I have one sales/use tax permit, and its only valid in Texas. If I collected sales tax without a permit I could go to prison for interstate fraud/theft. If I don't charge tax, they can do nothing to me or my business. (as it stands today) -- "I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality. If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us, We're going to kill you first, period." October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report) |
#116
Posted to alt.home.repair
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Because of the physical presence thing. They charge sales taxes because of where they are. It is one place that doesn't have to ask if the person they are selling to is in one of the weird districts. The sales taxes for the Internet, at least as currently being discussed, are not based on where one building is, but rather where the building they are sending it to is. Whole other ball of wax. Exactly. BS. It is done already by many retailers that have catalog operations. Sears, Monkey Ward, etc. Yep. And Wards is out of business. The software necessary to accomplish the result you favor costs upwards of several thousand dollars per year and must be updated at least monthly. Giant retailers - Sears, Target, etc. - can absorb this cost, but the part-timer who sells homemade candles or cookies cannot. |
#117
Posted to alt.home.repair
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
George wrote:
I would have no problem if all we are talking is the state sales taxes. But all of the other jurisdictions are demanding their cut, too and therein lies the rub. So whats the difference? The unfairness is that brick and mortar businesses are mandated to be tax collectors. If you buy something from them they are mandated to collect whatever taxes are applicable. So if the state is say 5%, and the county is 2% the merchant must collect 7%. Why should another merchant no need to do that? Ah, you've never owned a retail business. When I make my report to the state comptroller, *I* have to specify which sub-authority gets what. There are over 2,000 separate taxing authorities in my state (city, county, metro, hospital districts, mosquito control districts, enterprise zones, etc.). *I* have to compute the amount of tax due EACH one. For example, I may sell a $100 item to some rancher in a sparsely-populated county. The only tax is $6.00 to the state. If I sell that same item to a customer in a metropolitan area, I may have to collect, and report individually, $6.00 to the state, $1.50 to the customer's city, $0.50 to his local transit authority, and $0.25 to the community hospital district (total 8.25%) and report each separately. Now multiply the above by, say, 1,000 customers scattered across the state, complicated by quarterly reporting, and you begin to see the difficulty for just one retailer dealing with his home state. (Imagine a spread-sheet with 2,000 columns - the taxing authorities and 1,000 rows - the customers. Further imagine different percentages for each of the columns. Has your brain exploded yet?) Now pretend this same retailer is faced with, potentially, 11,000 sales tax jurisdictions across the land. It's mind boggling. |
#118
Posted to alt.home.repair
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
Peter wrote:
I suspect some company, maybe even a start-up, could make a bundle by developing the software accompanied by a user subscription charge for ongoing auto-updates of the database (analogous to the auto-updates of the signature files for our anti-virus programs). No need. The software already exists. You can do a simple internet search to find several companies offering such a product. For a reasonably-sized internet company, the company can expect to pay upwards of $5,000.00 per year for such a service. If you owned a used book store and sold 5,000 books per year nationwide, you'd have to add $1.00 to the price of each book just to cover the calculation of the appropriate tax. The result? No more used books sold online, or at least not very many. |
#119
Posted to sci.electronics.design,alt.home.repair,rec.crafts.metalworking
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
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#120
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OT Amazon to begin charging state sales tax
" wrote in
: On 24 Nov 2011 15:31:54 GMT, Han wrote: Nancy Young email@replyto wrote in news:4ece5b8b$0$28478$a8266bb1 : There is a line on my state's income tax form where you're supposed to be reporting all of these out-of-state purchases and cough up the sales tax you owe. I'm pretty sure most people ignore it, besides, that would be a lot of purchases to keep track of. I believe most states will adjust that line if there is no evidence to back up a zero amount. I know NY and NJ would. How could they possibly adjust the amount on a form and still have a form that can hold up in a fraud case? You would be requiring people to sign a fraudulent document. They'll send you a bill, or reduce your refund, because they've added an amount to that atx line assuming hehehe that is the amount you have spent out of state on use tax-subject stuff. How do you supply "evidence of a zero amount"? "OK, I have zero evidence of the actual amount!" You'll have to prove the amount NY has estimated is incorrect. ...not that I would put either past those two cesspools. NY indeed stinks, and NJ isn't that much better. We do agree on the politicians ... -- Best regards Han email address is invalid |
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