On 11/25/2011 10:59 AM, G. Morgan wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I'm not sure how it works
in other states or even in PA today (it has been over 35 years since I
collected taxes) but for the 5% collected, I kept 1% for my fee and
remitted 4% to the state. On a few million $$$ in sales, that 1%
would cover some software costs.

Huh? You helped yourself to a percent for your "fee"? I don't think
that would fly here and now. That is stealing.


No, at least in PA the merchant gets 1% of the tax (not the sale) to
cover some of the cost of being a tax collector.



phone rings

me Hello, may I help you?

comptroller Yes, Mr. Morgan this is the state comptroller. Your tax
remittance was incorrect.

me Really? By how much?

comptroller Well, it looks like you only charged 4% but the rate is 5%

me Yeah, I kept 1% for my 'fee'

comptroller You did what?

me I kept 1% of the sales tax for myself, I needed some software.

comptroller Mr. Morgan, could you please come to our office to discuss
this?

me Sure, tomorrow @ 10a good?

comptroller That will be fine, thank you.

click

comptroller dials receptionist "HEY MARCY, CALL THE STATE POLICE FOR A
MEETING HERE TOMORROW AT 10AM, WE HAVE A THIEF TO DEAL WITH"

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:02:19 -0700, Robert Neville
wrote:



Noone has answered the question "Under what authority does one state impose a
tax collection requirement on a business solely in another state?"

That is why no one has been collecting the tax so far. That is why
most small outfits will never have to collect the tax either.

IIRC, this entire situation is, do it voluntarily or we will find a
way to change the laws to force you. The states need the money and it
is easier to pressure a few big sellers rather than try to collect use
tax from a half million buyers.

On 11/25/2011 9:31 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In ,
wrote:



So it is a case of quantifying where the boundaries are. As I noted in
this thread even my states web site can tell someone which district they
are in based on street address even though those districts have nothing
to do with ZIP codes.
Try to get the same database to give you Congressional district, House
and senate district in the state legislature, all county commissioners
and council members by district, city council members by district,
school board members, township board members by district, members of the
local transportation company (if any), and I am sure I have missed quite
a few and THEN see how it works.


Still missing what the problem might be. Aren't all of those
quantifiable? Most (maybe all) of what you noted is already in publicly
accessible databases. Others are certainly in other databases. If there
is some need for the others wouldn't it just be a matter of importing
that data? This isn't the last century. Databases are powerful and cheap.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 07:37:34 -0600, G. Morgan
wrote:

Han wrote:

Doesn't zip+4 get you down to the street, rather than an area somewhere
with 100's of streets? That should get you into a database with salestax
rates.

Yes.

Wrong.

Nope.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delivery_point

Not even the right town.

Huh? What town are you talking about?


This software is exactly what is needed:
http://www.avalara.com/prostores/doc..._ProStores.pdf


"AvaTax performs several steps that involve
both the software and service aspect of the
solution. After AvaTax is integrated into a
companys accounting or ERP systems, it
uses a Web service to automatically
validate a customers address against a
database of U.S. addresses that are certified
by the Coding Accuracy Support System
(CASS)."
http://www.avalara.com/getdoc/11e1f9...MSFT_CaseStudy



What is CASS, you ask?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coding_...Support_System

Coding Accuracy Support System (CASS) enables the United States Postal
Service (USPS) to evaluate the accuracy of software that corrects and
matches street addresses. CASS certification is offered to all mailers,
service bureaus, and software vendors that would like the USPS to
evaluate the quality of their address-matching software and improve the
accuracy of their ZIP+4, carrier route, and five-digit coding.
--

"I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality.
If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us,
We're going to kill you first, period."

October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report)

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:59:34 -0600, G. Morgan
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I'm not sure how it works
in other states or even in PA today (it has been over 35 years since I
collected taxes) but for the 5% collected, I kept 1% for my fee and
remitted 4% to the state. On a few million $$$ in sales, that 1%
would cover some software costs.

Huh? You helped yourself to a percent for your "fee"? I don't think
that would fly here and now. That is stealing.


phone rings

me Hello, may I help you?

comptroller Yes, Mr. Morgan this is the state comptroller. Your tax
remittance was incorrect.

me Really? By how much?

comptroller Well, it looks like you only charged 4% but the rate is 5%

me Yeah, I kept 1% for my 'fee'


I just followed the instructions. The "fee" was not my idea, it was
what the state gave you for the expense of collecting. How is that
stealing?

I've never heard of them letting you keep a 'fee' for your effort.
Either I'm getting screwed, or the law is different in your state.

--

"I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality.
If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us,
We're going to kill you first, period."

October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report)

In article , George
wrote:

Still missing what the problem might be. Aren't all of those
quantifiable? Most (maybe all) of what you noted is already in publicly
accessible databases. Others are certainly in other databases. If there
is some need for the others wouldn't it just be a matter of importing
that data? This isn't the last century. Databases are powerful and cheap.

I am not convinced yet about the scalability. While they may be in other
databases, are they in *ONE* overarching database. Nobody here (other
than discussing their own addresses) has addressed the REAL issue. It
isn't are they available, but how reliable are they?

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

IIRC, this entire situation is, do it voluntarily or we will find a
way to change the laws to force you.

Voluntary sales tax collection? With states jacking sales tax up above 9% these
days? That's the whole reason B&M stores are screaming. This wouldn't be an
issue if sales taxes were set at a reasonable level.

And they are welcome to try to change the law. This isn't a new issue - Quill
vs. ND was decided back in the early 80s. Since this was decided at the SCOTUS
level already, there is really only one choice: Implement a national sales tax
that gets distributed back to the states (good luck with that) or suck it up.

The states need the money

Governments always need money, there's always people seeking more "free"
benefits from government and government spending will always expand to exceed
the amount of money collected.

and it is easier to pressure a few big sellers rather than try to collect use
tax from a half million buyers.

True as far as it goes, but lets be clear: retailers collect sales taxes which
are _imposed on the seller_ and passed through to the buyer, not use taxes. Use
taxes are imposed by states _on the buyer_, usually but not always in lieu of
sales tax.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:19:47 -0600, G. Morgan
wrote:




I just had an idea, I'll open a Delaware Corp. and run everything though
that. I won't charge any sales tax to anyone!


Works just fine, as long as you have no physical presence in another
state. Open a sales office, tech center, warehouse, etc, you then have
to collect for that state. It has worked like that for ages. That is
what makes internet sales lucrative. You don't collect the tax, people
don't pay the tax, even though they are obligated to do so as a use
tax.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:09:32 -0600, G. Morgan
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Do it the same way dozens of multi location nationwide stores do it
now and have been for the past dozens of years.

Those stores maintain a B&M presence in the states they sell to. If they
don't have a B&M location in that state; they don't have to charge sales
tax. Do try to keep up.

How is that 15 minute coding job coming along? It's so easy according
to you, let's see what you have so far.


That is what I'm saying, but if you look at the big guys like B&N,
they have stores in just about every state. Since they also have
on-line sales, they collect tax for just about every state. Nothing
new here.

Coding is done. Will be on the next stage coach to your location.

" wrote in
:

On 25 Nov 2011 12:48:56 GMT, Han wrote:

" wrote in
m:

On 24 Nov 2011 15:31:54 GMT, Han wrote:

Nancy Young email@replyto wrote in news:4ece5b8b$0$28478$a8266bb1
:

There is a line on my state's income tax form where you're
supposed to be reporting all of these out-of-state purchases and
cough up the sales tax you owe. I'm pretty sure most people
ignore it, besides, that would be a lot of purchases to keep track
of.


I believe most states will adjust that line if there is no evidence
to back up a zero amount. I know NY and NJ would.

How could they possibly adjust the amount on a form and still have a
form that can hold up in a fraud case? You would be requiring
people to sign a fraudulent document.

They'll send you a bill, or reduce your refund, because they've added
an amount to that atx line assuming hehehe that is the amount you
have spent out of state on use tax-subject stuff.

...and they know this how?

The State of New York knows everything, how else?

(pls insert graphic of choice).

How do you supply "evidence of a zero amount"? "OK, I have zero
evidence of the actual amount!"

You'll have to prove the amount NY has estimated is incorrect.

...not that I would put either past those two cesspools.

NY indeed stinks, and NJ isn't that much better. We do agree on the
politicians ...

NJ is only *slightly* better because your governor is *trying* to turn
it around. After Corizine, et. al., it's not going to happen, though.
NY and NJ will always be cesspools.

It may be that christie is doing something good, but the way he covers
that up makes it almost unrecognizable.


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

G. Morgan wrote in
:

I make larger personal purchases (computers, TVs) on Newegg.com
specifically for the sales-tax break AND free delivery. :-)

That's where the "use tax" comes in. You deprive your state and the local
merchants of income. Or you steal it from them, take your pick.

Because of people like you (and me), the use tax fig leaf was invented. I
think that a zip+4-based salestax that gets then transmitted (at zero cost
to the merchant) to the proper autorities would be fair.

YMMV, etc, etc.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

" wrote in
:

On 25 Nov 2011 13:43:28 GMT, Han wrote:

G. Morgan wrote in
:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

More energy has been expended by the naysayers here than it will
take to put the program in place. It is a bad as kids and homework.
They will complain for an hour about doing a 15 minute project.

Well, that settles it then. Do me a favor and whip up some code for
me if its only gonna take 15 minutes. I will pay you $100 USD for
the code. That's $400/hour; good money for you, and well spent for
me because I can't do it. You must know something I don't.

Still have not answered how to pay the states. I can't collect w/o
a permit. Do I have to visit every state and see the county clerk
for a DBA, then go to every state's comptroller too for the
sales/use permit?

I'm sure you have that worked out. Just tell me the procedure when
you deliver the code in an hour or so.

As I said elsewhere in this thread, I'd bet that zip+4 (which I
believe gets you down to the specific street) would be a good way to
base a database on.

Not good enough.

States would probably like to fund the database and solve
the remittance "problem".

Likely not, or it would have been done.

States don't move that fast ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 25 Nov., 10:02, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:

it seem ok enough that amazon have the unfair advantage, of paying no
saletax,
over local shops just because they sell stuff over the internet and
not over the counter

It seems unfair that a local store can supply the merchandise immediately
when one has to wait three days for that same merchandise to arrive from
Amazon. To be "fair," the local brick and mortar store should be required to
hold the merchandise, much like a lay-away, for at least a couple of days to
ensure "fairness."

well then in exchange for the waiting time you should have to pay sale
tax
then it would be fair


Of course if you needed another box of nails, a replacement for a broken
drill-bit, or a water pump for your car, you might be slightly
inconvenienced by waiting a few days, but at least the universe would take a
big step toward fairness.

It's for the children.

that is if you are lucky enough that there's still a shop to go to and
it hasn't
been closed because it didn't sell anything because every one bought
stuff online
to avoid the sales tax


-Lasse

On 11/25/11 12:04 pm, Robert Neville wrote:
Ed wrote:

IIRC, this entire situation is, do it voluntarily or we will find a
way to change the laws to force you.

Voluntary sales tax collection? With states jacking sales tax up above 9% these
days? That's the whole reason B&M stores are screaming. This wouldn't be an
issue if sales taxes were set at a reasonable level.

And they are welcome to try to change the law. This isn't a new issue - Quill
vs. ND was decided back in the early 80s. Since this was decided at the SCOTUS
level already, there is really only one choice: Implement a national sales tax
that gets distributed back to the states (good luck with that) or suck it up.

The states need the money

Governments always need money, there's always people seeking more "free"
benefits from government and government spending will always expand to exceed
the amount of money collected.

and it is easier to pressure a few big sellers rather than try to collect use
tax from a half million buyers.

True as far as it goes, but lets be clear: retailers collect sales taxes which
are _imposed on the seller_ and passed through to the buyer, not use taxes. Use
taxes are imposed by states _on the buyer_, usually but not always in lieu of
sales tax.

Dealing now with the VAT alternative.... I may be wrong, but I thought
that VAT as implemented (originated?) in France is not how it works in
many other countries that now have VAT: the VAT in France was not
supposed to be passed on. E.g., widget costs $10 to make, is sold to
distributor for $13 so manufacturer pays x% on $3, is sold to wholesaler
for $16 so wholesaler pays x% of $3, is sold to retailer for $20 so
wholesaler pays x% of $4, is sold to customer for $25 so customer pays
x% of $5. IOW, the VAT was on the markup at each stage.

BTW, the way things work now can get rather silly. A few years ago we
ordered replacement glass units for an entry door from the manufacturer
of the door in Ohio. We paid no sales tax because the manufacturer has
no presence in Michigan. The glass units were shipped by the Michigan
company that made them, but we paid no sales tax because we had no
business relationship with that company. We declared that purchase when
we filed our MI taxes, but that had nothing to do with the items being
shipped from a MI company.

Perce

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Other retailers do it now. Again, it will be a burden if the states
go after the little guy, but the big stores won't be hurt by it. The
software is available at reasonable cost. I'm not sure how it works
in other states or even in PA today (it has been over 35 years since I
collected taxes) but for the 5% collected, I kept 1% for my fee and
remitted 4% to the state. On a few million $$$ in sales, that 1%
would cover some software costs.

As for writing checks, it is usually done by bank transfer today.

Huh? "The software is available at reasonable cost" is a preposterous
statement. Look up the cost. The cheapest I've found is $1,400.00 per year.

Imagine a small, independent, bookseller who sells three books a day via his
modest online store (I know of several). He'd have to add a dollar per book
to his price just to be able to satisfy the tax reporting requirements.

That's NOT a trivial expense.

" wrote:

On 25 Nov., 10:02, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:

it seem ok enough that amazon have the unfair advantage, of paying no
saletax,
over local shops just because they sell stuff over the internet and
not over the counter

It seems unfair that a local store can supply the merchandise immediately
when one has to wait three days for that same merchandise to arrive from
Amazon. To be "fair," the local brick and mortar store should be required to
hold the merchandise, much like a lay-away, for at least a couple of days to
ensure "fairness."

well then in exchange for the waiting time you should have to pay sale
tax
then it would be fair


Of course if you needed another box of nails, a replacement for a broken
drill-bit, or a water pump for your car, you might be slightly
inconvenienced by waiting a few days, but at least the universe would take a
big step toward fairness.

It's for the children.

that is if you are lucky enough that there's still a shop to go to and
it hasn't
been closed because it didn't sell anything because every one bought
stuff online
to avoid the sales tax


I only shopped mail order or online for what I couldn't get locally,
or it was so damned overpriced that I wouldn't. I needed a 10' HDMI
cable recently. $3.49 delivered, or $49.99 local, and both were made in
China.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Vic Smith wrote:

About 6 years ago my son's car was stolen in Niles, Illinois..
Chicago police picked it up a day later and my son retrieved it from
the auto pound. No damage, plates still on.
So the kid is driving back to U of I and gets pulled over by the state
police, cuffed and spends a couple hours in the pokey before it was
cleared up.
It's pretty funny imagining him cuffed in the back seat of a police
car. Me, I can see. Not him.
Then I had to go to the Niles PD to get them to take it off the files.
All this should have happened when he ID'd himself to get the car at
the pound.

How did you segue from a sales tax comment to your kid getting
locked-up? Lol...

--

"I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality.
If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us,
We're going to kill you first, period."

October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report)

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:59:21 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


" wrote:

On 25 Nov., 10:02, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:

it seem ok enough that amazon have the unfair advantage, of paying no
saletax,
over local shops just because they sell stuff over the internet and
not over the counter

It seems unfair that a local store can supply the merchandise immediately
when one has to wait three days for that same merchandise to arrive from
Amazon. To be "fair," the local brick and mortar store should be required to
hold the merchandise, much like a lay-away, for at least a couple of days to
ensure "fairness."

well then in exchange for the waiting time you should have to pay sale
tax
then it would be fair


Of course if you needed another box of nails, a replacement for a broken
drill-bit, or a water pump for your car, you might be slightly
inconvenienced by waiting a few days, but at least the universe would take a
big step toward fairness.

It's for the children.

that is if you are lucky enough that there's still a shop to go to and
it hasn't
been closed because it didn't sell anything because every one bought
stuff online
to avoid the sales tax


I only shopped mail order or online for what I couldn't get locally,
or it was so damned overpriced that I wouldn't. I needed a 10' HDMI
cable recently. $3.49 delivered, or $49.99 local, and both were made in
China.

So you managed to avoid paying about $3.00 in sales tax..

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:04:42 -0600, G. Morgan
wrote:


How did you segue from a sales tax comment to your kid getting
locked-up? Lol...

Data base coordination was the link.
And I like telling true stories (-:

--Vic

wrote:


that is if you are lucky enough that there's still a shop to go to and
it hasn't
been closed because it didn't sell anything because every one bought
stuff online
to avoid the sales tax

And to save gas, time, and now that its holiday season..FRUSTRATION,
ANXIETY, and RAGE. I do not go anywhere near a mall or big-box
electronics joint this time of year. Hate it.

The 'Internets' and all the wonderful online stores have changed the way
I shop. Now when I need something I can research the hell out of
different TV's for example. Old way is going to a B&M store and
selecting from a very limited inventory. I can spec. a TV, find the
best price, and have it delivered to my door for free. Does Best Buy or
Wally-World deliver for free? Nope. I don't need to transport that huge
box and make sure the load is tied down. I don't have to handle the
cumbersome and heavy box until it arrives at my front doorstep.

At the end of the day, I got the *exact* TV I wanted because I didn't
have to pick from a limited inventory. I wasn't pressured by some
sleazy salesman that smells like garlic. I didn't 'settle' for what they
had, vs. what I really wanted. There were no crying babies and
cranked-up gangster rap playing on demo units. No fighting for a parking
space down the south 40, in the rain. No thank you, I do all my
shopping online now. Oh, did I mention its much cheaper this way too?
--

"I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality.
If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us,
We're going to kill you first, period."

October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report)

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 02:37:23 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:




The software necessary to accomplish the result you favor costs
upwards of several thousand dollars per year and must be updated at
least monthly. Giant retailers - Sears, Target, etc. - can absorb
this cost, but the part-timer who sells homemade candles or cookies
cannot.


No one is yet chasing the little guys. Maybe some day, but not now.
Sure, there is some cost to this, but companies have been doing this
already for years. If you have a physical presence in a state, you
must collect the sales tax. Many big chain stores already are
collecting it. The technology exists. Order a book from Barnes &
Noble. Order a TV from WalMart on line. Order a program from
Microsoft.

It is done very day by many companies. What is the big deal for
Amazon to do it?

More energy has been expended by the naysayers here than it will take
to put the program in place. It is a bad as kids and homework. They
will complain for an hour about doing a 15 minute project.

Even if a retailer COULD do it (which I doubt), there's still the question
of whether he SHOULD, or, more specifically, whether a law should force him
to do so.

The brick and mortar stores agitating for a nation-wide law overlook one
thing: Their state will get more money and the state will use that money to
increase their meddling with the populace in general and the small retailer
in particular.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 11:14:40 -0500, George wrote:

On 11/24/2011 10:31 PM, BobR wrote:


I guess you pretty much answered his question. Nothing but juvenile
insults.

Ah, I hurt your feelings too. Don't worry, Barak will take care of you, too.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You aren't capable of hurting my feelings, you have no significance.

Now that "krw" has clearly identified they have no useful or valuable
input and their only reason for being here is to childishly screw with
people for personal entertainment it makes sense to simply ignore her...

Then why do you answer? Got your goat?

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

Dealing now with the VAT alternative.... I may be wrong, but I thought
that VAT as implemented (originated?) in France is not how it works in
many other countries that now have VAT: the VAT in France was not
supposed to be passed on. E.g., widget costs $10 to make, is sold to
distributor for $13 so manufacturer pays x% on $3, is sold to wholesaler
for $16 so wholesaler pays x% of $3, is sold to retailer for $20 so
wholesaler pays x% of $4, is sold to customer for $25 so customer pays
x% of $5. IOW, the VAT was on the markup at each stage.

Close, but not exactly. VAT is charged against every transaction, but you get
credited for the VAT you paid. Let's say VAT is 10% and you buy $10 worth of
material. As a manufacturer you pay a total of $11. You sold it for $20, but
collected $22.00. You get to deduct the $1 VAT you paid from the $2.00 you
collected and remit $1.00 to the state.

$1 - Sounds like the state is getting less compared to straight sales tax? But
you forgot about the $1 paid as a part of the materials. The state collects $2
total, which is a complicated way of collecting the same amount of revenue.
Instead of just the retailer having to keep track of taxes, everyone along the
chain has to keep track.

States like VAT because they can collect the tax in increments instead of
waiting until the final sale. It also makes the "tax loss" from companies that
go out of business without paying their final tax bill smaller since they only
lose the tax on the last stage of the chain. And of course if the product is
sold at a loss, too bad, so sad, no VAT refund.

Another benefit from the state's perspective is that it creates a huge paper
trail that can be audited. Every intermediate buyer along the way is going to
want a legitimate receipt showing the VAT they paid so they can deduct it from
the amount they are collecting. No more cash discounts, no more tax free
transactions.

Like almost every tax, politicians get it passed by starting at a low rate and
promising it won't increase. Once it's there, look out. In Europe, it started at
around 8% in the 50s, but now is 25% in some countries. And of course that's on
top of income that's already been taxed.

BTW, the way things work now can get rather silly. A few years ago we
ordered replacement glass units for an entry door from the manufacturer
of the door in Ohio. We paid no sales tax because the manufacturer has
no presence in Michigan. The glass units were shipped by the Michigan
company that made them, but we paid no sales tax because we had no
business relationship with that company. We declared that purchase when
we filed our MI taxes, but that had nothing to do with the items being
shipped from a MI company.

Yep. That's the classic Use Tax scenario. Use tax makes some sense in a business
environment because the transactions amounts are typically much higher, there's
far less businesses than individuals and businesses get audited far more often
than individuals.

wrote:
On 25 Nov., 10:02, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:

it seem ok enough that amazon have the unfair advantage, of paying
no saletax,
over local shops just because they sell stuff over the internet and
not over the counter

It seems unfair that a local store can supply the merchandise
immediately when one has to wait three days for that same
merchandise to arrive from Amazon. To be "fair," the local brick and
mortar store should be required to hold the merchandise, much like a
lay-away, for at least a couple of days to ensure "fairness."

well then in exchange for the waiting time you should have to pay sale
tax
then it would be fair


Of course if you needed another box of nails, a replacement for a
broken drill-bit, or a water pump for your car, you might be slightly
inconvenienced by waiting a few days, but at least the universe
would take a big step toward fairness.

It's for the children.

that is if you are lucky enough that there's still a shop to go to and
it hasn't
been closed because it didn't sell anything because every one bought
stuff online
to avoid the sales tax


It's not luck - it's competition. There's a Stop 'N Rob on every street
corner. If you ABSOLUTELY MUST have a box of corn flakes in the next twenty
minutes, paying $6.00 for the box is of secondary importance.

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:59:21 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


" wrote:

On 25 Nov., 10:02, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:

it seem ok enough that amazon have the unfair advantage, of paying no
saletax,
over local shops just because they sell stuff over the internet and
not over the counter

It seems unfair that a local store can supply the merchandise immediately
when one has to wait three days for that same merchandise to arrive from
Amazon. To be "fair," the local brick and mortar store should be required to
hold the merchandise, much like a lay-away, for at least a couple of days to
ensure "fairness."

well then in exchange for the waiting time you should have to pay sale
tax
then it would be fair


Of course if you needed another box of nails, a replacement for a broken
drill-bit, or a water pump for your car, you might be slightly
inconvenienced by waiting a few days, but at least the universe would take a
big step toward fairness.

It's for the children.

that is if you are lucky enough that there's still a shop to go to and
it hasn't
been closed because it didn't sell anything because every one bought
stuff online
to avoid the sales tax


I only shopped mail order or online for what I couldn't get locally,
or it was so damned overpriced that I wouldn't. I needed a 10' HDMI
cable recently. $3.49 delivered, or $49.99 local, and both were made in
China.

So you managed to avoid paying about $3.00 in sales tax..

And the $46.50 difference in the price, knucklehead!

--

"I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality.
If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us,
We're going to kill you first, period."

October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report)

On 25 Nov 2011 17:19:01 GMT, Han wrote:

" wrote in
:

On 25 Nov 2011 12:48:56 GMT, Han wrote:

" wrote in
:

On 24 Nov 2011 15:31:54 GMT, Han wrote:

Nancy Young email@replyto wrote in news:4ece5b8b$0$28478$a8266bb1
:

There is a line on my state's income tax form where you're
supposed to be reporting all of these out-of-state purchases and
cough up the sales tax you owe. I'm pretty sure most people
ignore it, besides, that would be a lot of purchases to keep track
of.


I believe most states will adjust that line if there is no evidence
to back up a zero amount. I know NY and NJ would.

How could they possibly adjust the amount on a form and still have a
form that can hold up in a fraud case? You would be requiring
people to sign a fraudulent document.

They'll send you a bill, or reduce your refund, because they've added
an amount to that atx line assuming hehehe that is the amount you
have spent out of state on use tax-subject stuff.

...and they know this how?

The State of New York knows everything, how else?

....and they'll peek under your knickers, if need be. I know, I lived there
for almost 20 years.

(pls insert graphic of choice).

Done.

How do you supply "evidence of a zero amount"? "OK, I have zero
evidence of the actual amount!"

You'll have to prove the amount NY has estimated is incorrect.

...not that I would put either past those two cesspools.

NY indeed stinks, and NJ isn't that much better. We do agree on the
politicians ...

NJ is only *slightly* better because your governor is *trying* to turn
it around. After Corizine, et. al., it's not going to happen, though.
NY and NJ will always be cesspools.

It may be that christie is doing something good, but the way he covers
that up makes it almost unrecognizable.

You (NY media) get a very different story than the rest of the country.

On 25 Nov 2011 17:27:20 GMT, Han wrote:

" wrote in
:

On 25 Nov 2011 13:43:28 GMT, Han wrote:

G. Morgan wrote in
:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

More energy has been expended by the naysayers here than it will
take to put the program in place. It is a bad as kids and homework.
They will complain for an hour about doing a 15 minute project.

Well, that settles it then. Do me a favor and whip up some code for
me if its only gonna take 15 minutes. I will pay you $100 USD for
the code. That's $400/hour; good money for you, and well spent for
me because I can't do it. You must know something I don't.

Still have not answered how to pay the states. I can't collect w/o
a permit. Do I have to visit every state and see the county clerk
for a DBA, then go to every state's comptroller too for the
sales/use permit?

I'm sure you have that worked out. Just tell me the procedure when
you deliver the code in an hour or so.

As I said elsewhere in this thread, I'd bet that zip+4 (which I
believe gets you down to the specific street) would be a good way to
base a database on.

Not good enough.

States would probably like to fund the database and solve
the remittance "problem".

Likely not, or it would have been done.

States don't move that fast ...

It won't happen. No incentive.

On 25 Nov., 22:32, G. Morgan wrote:
wrote:

that is if you are lucky enough that there's still a shop to go to and
it hasn't
been closed because it didn't sell anything because every one bought
stuff online
to avoid the sales tax

And to save gas, time, and now that its holiday season..FRUSTRATION,
ANXIETY, and RAGE. *I do not go anywhere near a mall or big-box
electronics joint this time of year. *Hate it.

The 'Internets' and all the wonderful online stores have changed the way
I shop. Now when I need something I can research the hell out of
different TV's for example. Old way is going to a B&M store and
selecting from a very limited inventory. *I can spec. a TV, find the
best price, and have it delivered to my door for free. *Does Best Buy or
Wally-World deliver for free? Nope. I don't need to transport that huge
box and make sure the load is tied down. *I don't have to handle the
cumbersome and heavy box until it arrives at my front doorstep.

At the end of the day, I got the *exact* TV I wanted because I didn't
have to pick from a limited inventory. *I wasn't pressured by some
sleazy salesman that smells like garlic. I didn't 'settle' for what they
had, vs. what I really wanted. There were no crying babies and
cranked-up gangster rap playing on demo units. No fighting for a parking
space down the south 40, in the rain. *No thank you, I do all my
shopping online now. Oh, did I mention its much cheaper this way too?
--

nothing wrong with buying online, my point was that just because the
headquarters of the online shop is in a state with no sales tax they
shouldn't be exempt

several shops here have both a regular shop and an online shop, you
can shop
online and have it shipped or you can go pick it up at the store some
even
have drive-in

-Lasse

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 11:23:01 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 09:02:19 -0700, Robert Neville
wrote:



Noone has answered the question "Under what authority does one state impose a
tax collection requirement on a business solely in another state?"

That is why no one has been collecting the tax so far. That is why
most small outfits will never have to collect the tax either.

IIRC, this entire situation is, do it voluntarily or we will find a
way to change the laws to force you. The states need the money and it
is easier to pressure a few big sellers rather than try to collect use
tax from a half million buyers.

A "few big (out-of-state) sellers" also don't vote. Charging a few million of
those who you wish to vote for you, just doesn't look good.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:09:32 -0600, G. Morgan
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Do it the same way dozens of multi location nationwide stores do it
now and have been for the past dozens of years.

Those stores maintain a B&M presence in the states they sell to. If they
don't have a B&M location in that state; they don't have to charge sales
tax. Do try to keep up.

It's not just a B&M presence. It's *any* presence. If their research branch
is in the state, they must collect sales tax.

How is that 15 minute coding job coming along? It's so easy according
to you, let's see what you have so far.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 14:56:27 -0600, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Other retailers do it now. Again, it will be a burden if the states
go after the little guy, but the big stores won't be hurt by it. The
software is available at reasonable cost. I'm not sure how it works
in other states or even in PA today (it has been over 35 years since I
collected taxes) but for the 5% collected, I kept 1% for my fee and
remitted 4% to the state. On a few million $$$ in sales, that 1%
would cover some software costs.

As for writing checks, it is usually done by bank transfer today.

Huh? "The software is available at reasonable cost" is a preposterous
statement. Look up the cost. The cheapest I've found is $1,400.00 per year.

Imagine a small, independent, bookseller who sells three books a day via his
modest online store (I know of several). He'd have to add a dollar per book
to his price just to be able to satisfy the tax reporting requirements.

That's NOT a trivial expense.


But that guy is not going to collect the tax. In it not trivial, it
is non-existent. The states are not going after him. Notice how the
subject line says "Amazon", not tiny book seller.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:04:37 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote:




Does ZIP+4 differentiate between the sides of a street down the middle
of which the county line might run?

Perce

Yes

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:36:16 -0600, G. Morgan
wrote:

wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 07:37:34 -0600, G. Morgan
wrote:

Han wrote:

Doesn't zip+4 get you down to the street, rather than an area somewhere
with 100's of streets? That should get you into a database with salestax
rates.

Yes.

Wrong.

Nope.

Nope. You're wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delivery_point

Not even the right town.

Huh? What town are you talking about?

Given an address, they can't even get the town right.

This software is exactly what is needed:
http://www.avalara.com/prostores/doc..._ProStores.pdf


"AvaTax performs several steps that involve
both the software and service aspect of the
solution. After AvaTax is integrated into a
company’s accounting or ERP systems, it
uses a Web service to automatically
validate a customer’s address against a
database of U.S. addresses that are certified
by the Coding Accuracy Support System
(CASS)."
http://www.avalara.com/getdoc/11e1f9...MSFT_CaseStudy



What is CASS, you ask?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coding_...Support_System

Coding Accuracy Support System (CASS) enables the United States Postal
Service (USPS) to evaluate the accuracy of software that corrects and
matches street addresses. CASS certification is offered to all mailers,
service bureaus, and software vendors that would like the USPS to
evaluate the quality of their address-matching software and improve the
accuracy of their ZIP+4, carrier route, and five-digit coding.

Irrelevant. Doesn't help when the zip points to the wrong town. The USPS is
concerned with delivery, not political lines.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:59:21 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:




I only shopped mail order or online for what I couldn't get locally,
or it was so damned overpriced that I wouldn't. I needed a 10' HDMI
cable recently. $3.49 delivered, or $49.99 local, and both were made in
China.

HDMI cables are one of the biggest rip-offs of the consumer ever. I
bought a bunch on line for about $3.50. Every time a friend said he
was going to buy a new gadget, I gave him a cable so he would not get
ripped for big bucks.

Of course, if it is a Monster Cable with no oxygen in the copper . . .
.. . .

In article ,
" wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:09:32 -0600, G. Morgan


It's not just a B&M presence. It's *any* presence. If their research branch
is in the state, they must collect sales tax.

Unless their research branch is in a tent in a parking lot somewhere,
then it is brick and mortar. They don't require a commercial or store
B&M,/

How is that 15 minute coding job coming along? It's so easy according
to you, let's see what you have so far.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

In article ,
Ed Pawlowski wrote:


But that guy is not going to collect the tax. In it not trivial, it
is non-existent. The states are not going after him. Notice how the
subject line says "Amazon", not tiny book seller.

But it doesn't specifically exempt him either. You think in the state of
Indiana, for instance, that they only collect from the Big Box stores?

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 18:17:13 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:59:21 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:




I only shopped mail order or online for what I couldn't get locally,
or it was so damned overpriced that I wouldn't. I needed a 10' HDMI
cable recently. $3.49 delivered, or $49.99 local, and both were made in
China.

HDMI cables are one of the biggest rip-offs of the consumer ever. I
bought a bunch on line for about $3.50. Every time a friend said he
was going to buy a new gadget, I gave him a cable so he would not get
ripped for big bucks.

I noticed Home Depot had them today for $6, but only 12' lengths. Had they
been 3' or 6' I would have picked up a couple.

Of course, if it is a Monster Cable with no oxygen in the copper . . .
. . .

No oxygen in the brains of their customers, either.

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:39:09 -0600, the renowned G. Morgan
wrote:

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 15:59:21 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


" wrote:

On 25 Nov., 10:02, "HeyBub" wrote:
wrote:

it seem ok enough that amazon have the unfair advantage, of paying no
saletax,
over local shops just because they sell stuff over the internet and
not over the counter

It seems unfair that a local store can supply the merchandise immediately
when one has to wait three days for that same merchandise to arrive from
Amazon. To be "fair," the local brick and mortar store should be required to
hold the merchandise, much like a lay-away, for at least a couple of days to
ensure "fairness."

well then in exchange for the waiting time you should have to pay sale
tax
then it would be fair


Of course if you needed another box of nails, a replacement for a broken
drill-bit, or a water pump for your car, you might be slightly
inconvenienced by waiting a few days, but at least the universe would take a
big step toward fairness.

It's for the children.

that is if you are lucky enough that there's still a shop to go to and
it hasn't
been closed because it didn't sell anything because every one bought
stuff online
to avoid the sales tax


I only shopped mail order or online for what I couldn't get locally,
or it was so damned overpriced that I wouldn't. I needed a 10' HDMI
cable recently. $3.49 delivered, or $49.99 local, and both were made in
China.

So you managed to avoid paying about $3.00 in sales tax..

And the $46.50 difference in the price, knucklehead!

Excellent point, Captain Obvious.



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 10:42:13 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2011 08:38:08 -0500, George
wrote:



I do think that tax collectors shouldn't need need to incur any
additional expense. So the taxing body needs to cover the cost of the
database.


I don't know how it works today, but years ago, I kept a portion of
the tax collected as my fee. On big sellers, it would cover costs. I'm
sure it varies by state though.

I collected for NY from 76 to 84 or so. I never got squat for the
paperwork.

The way the tax tables were set up it might cost me a few cents to
have the pleasure of serving my state & counties.

Jim

" wrote in
:

You (NY media) get a very different story than the rest of the country.
Town had to let go police officers, cut library hours, and a whole lot
more because of Christie. Both daughter and son are high school teachers.
But we have already gone over the problem whether good teachers are under-
or overpaid.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid