That should be interesting, if it comes down from Rx to OTC.
TYVM, I'll DAGS if it comes to that. I've been thinking the
chair in front of my PC is giving me lower back problems,
the three rods that hold the "back" are right behind my
lower back. I'm going to try and find a different chair,
some day soon. ISTR seeing chairs at SA or Goodwill (GW).
TYVM, HAGD, SO.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
news On Thu, 3 Nov 2011 21:39:33 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I'll admit, I've never heard of that. Is it Rx?


Voltaren (diclofenac) works for me (arthritis)
A generic is also pretty cheap.


It is Rx now but it is supposed to be coming off. I have
some nasty
inflammatory arthritis similar but not RA and this was the
magic
potion, after lots of misses and thousands of dollars of
doctor visits
(X rays, MRIs etc). This and a good physical therapist was
worth more
than everything else I endured.

I really only take them when I am having a problem.

I've met people who really enjoy hydrocodone. Me, it doesn't
seem to do a thing. Just like not taking any meds at all.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...


It's good that not all people are the same, but it does
make it difficult
to decide on medications at times. I'm sorry for you that
you had to go
to those big time opioids.

I've only been on Hydrocodone once and that was for at most
two days. I don't
like any of that stuff and I would usually rather deal with
pain.

...

On 11/3/2011 11:41 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 3 Nov 2011 21:39:33 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I'll admit, I've never heard of that. Is it Rx?


Voltaren (diclofenac) works for me (arthritis)
A generic is also pretty cheap.


It is Rx now but it is supposed to be coming off. I have some nasty
inflammatory arthritis similar but not RA and this was the magic
potion, after lots of misses and thousands of dollars of doctor visits
(X rays, MRIs etc). This and a good physical therapist was worth more
than everything else I endured.

I really only take them when I am having a problem.


A good physical therapist for back problems is probably the best choice
one can make to start with...should be the first choice once the problem
is deemed stable and not at risk to worsen. Folks who want someone else
to fix their ailment, without doing their part, suffer for that
choice...obesity kills, for a lot of reasons. Abdominal muscles are a
very important part of back function and support...when abd. muscles are
weak and pushed way out, it's kind of like building a house with broken
studs in the front wall and adjoining wall...something has to give, and
it will.

I had a client in case management once who ruptured a disc at work...no
doubt about what had happened and she had acute neuro problems due to
pressure on nerve. Got her to ER and then neurosurgeon. After surgery,
when she was ready for rehab, the doc called me to ask whether we would
authorize a YMCA membership for her so she could swim every day.
Patient was compliant and responsible, and he wanted to save us a few
bucks. I didn't say "yes", I said, "Hell, yes". She recovered
completely with no problems. OTOH, I would spend a lot more sometimes
to get people to the best and most appropriate treatment. Cut $100k out
of the worker comp budget first year (1/5) getting people to good docs
and away from the local ortho mill ) Good deal of personal risk in
that and a couple of other jobs; no regrets.

Han wrote:
"dadiOH" wrote in
:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Seems to be mostly lower back pain. I wonder, now. My
computer chair has several wooden rods that go up the back,
and I wonder if I need to add some padding, the rods push me
in the back.

Maybe but I kinda doubt it. Much depends on your age and how other
joints feel. As we get older, most people seem to develop some
arthritis. If it is in your spine, you can get a variety of kinds of
pain, not necessarily in your back. When mine first started acting
up I thought I had a mild kidney infection as that was where it hurt.
Not so, as tests showed. If it persists, you really need to talk to
your doc and figure out what is causing it. If it is spinal
stenosis, an MRI - AKA "Adventures in Claustrophobia" - will show it.

BTW, I used Aleve for my back for about a year. When my back started
constantly feeling as if the Jolly Green Giant had whacked me across
the back with a baseball bat I gave up and went for the epidural
steroid shots.

Aleve (naproxen) is a fairly strong NSAID that falls in the category
that inhibits COX-2 somewhat too muc (IMNSHO). It's a balance
between backpain and heart/stroke risk ...

I've had and still have back pains or sciatica occasionally. The
very best remedy is exercising the muscles that hold your spine
together. That includes belly of course. I should do my exercising
much more conscientiously. Physical therapy and chiropractic, or a
supervised exercise regimen in a gym are highly recommended!

All good but they aren't going to get the spinal canal back to its former
size, are they?

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

On 11/4/2011 7:33 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I've met people who really enjoy hydrocodone. Me, it doesn't
seem to do a thing. Just like not taking any meds at all.

Decades ago, when I had a "dry socket" after a wisdom tooth extraction
(and the worst pain I've ever experienced), the oral surgeon prescribed
some Percodan. After taking it, I wasn't bothered by the pain, even
though I still felt it; however, I was very bothered by the
light-headedness and general sense of weirdness. I stopped taking it
and went back to the most effective pain reliever in my experience, a
small snack followed by 2 aspirin and a stiff shot of bourbon.

Norminn wrote in news:E5ednS3b172
:

Pain meds can be a sort of a trap, by making people less active, gain
weight and actually make back problems worse. I don't argue that some
problems require strong meds for adequate relief. And a lot of "back
pain" is only an excuse to feed an addiction - have seen it working in
case management and in drug detox. In a detox center, it wasn't unusual
to hear folks discover they had back pain or arthritis once they quit
using drugs and alcohol )

Well, I have used pain meds to suppress the pain and relax the muscles so I
could use them. Especially with back and related pain, the meds SHOULD be
used so the person can exrcise and strengthen the muscles that weakened,
thereby causing the condition.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"dadiOH" wrote in :

All good but they aren't going to get the spinal canal back to its
former size, are they?

If you are talking about stenosis or osteoporosis, probably not. If you
are talking about weakened muscles, obesity and resulting compression,
possibly. Best if you can prevent those bad things ...

I'm going to the gym soon ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 11/3/2011 9:59 PM, Han wrote:
wrote in :

On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 21:40:54 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Motrin IB isn't doing much good for me, tonight. The little
brown generic ibuprophen also don't do much good.

Aleve seems to help, generic naproxyn is useless.

Generic acetaminophen seems to help. Arthritis strength
generic acetaminophen seems to help.

Wish I could find a pill that's cheap, and relieves pain.

Voltaren (diclofenac) works for me (arthritis)
A generic is also pretty cheap.

Diclofenac is another good NSAID, but as with all NSAIDS, certain caveats
exist. I believe it is Rx, but should not be expensive. DAGS!!

I am using Voltaren (Diclofenac Gel) for a shoulder problem. Seems to
work, but it is pretty pricey. I paid around $50 co-pay for a tube,
Ouch! BTW, the prescription strength for Ibuprofen is 800mg, which
means you can take 4 "little brown pills" 4 times a day. This was per
my doc, BUT, WARNING, WARNING, WARNING, don't do it for too long. I
think the doctors say for no more than a week or 2, but I always
stay lower than that. I've never done it for more than a few days at a
time. Another Prescription NSAID is Mobic (Meloxicam) which works for
me. Only 1 per day ... I never use it for more than a few days at a
time. And of course, never mix NSAIDS. I'm not a doc, just my own
experiences. Yours may be different ... ask you doc.

Best to deal with the pain if you can.

In the case of aspirin, it is definitely a case of too much is wrong, if
we're talking about effects on the whole body in situations of cardiac-
related problems. Sorry to disagree.


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Peter wrote in :

On 11/4/2011 7:33 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I've met people who really enjoy hydrocodone. Me, it doesn't
seem to do a thing. Just like not taking any meds at all.

Decades ago, when I had a "dry socket" after a wisdom tooth extraction
(and the worst pain I've ever experienced), the oral surgeon prescribed
some Percodan. After taking it, I wasn't bothered by the pain, even
though I still felt it; however, I was very bothered by the
light-headedness and general sense of weirdness. I stopped taking it
and went back to the most effective pain reliever in my experience, a
small snack followed by 2 aspirin and a stiff shot of bourbon.

I think I understand. But, generally, it is not advisable to add aspirin
and alcohol together on a regular basis, I believe.

YMMV ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Art Todesco wrote in
:

On 11/3/2011 9:59 PM, Han wrote:
wrote in
:

On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 21:40:54 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Motrin IB isn't doing much good for me, tonight. The little
brown generic ibuprophen also don't do much good.

Aleve seems to help, generic naproxyn is useless.

Generic acetaminophen seems to help. Arthritis strength
generic acetaminophen seems to help.

Wish I could find a pill that's cheap, and relieves pain.

Voltaren (diclofenac) works for me (arthritis)
A generic is also pretty cheap.

Diclofenac is another good NSAID, but as with all NSAIDS, certain
caveats exist. I believe it is Rx, but should not be expensive.
DAGS!!

I am using Voltaren (Diclofenac Gel) for a shoulder problem. Seems to
work, but it is pretty pricey. I paid around $50 co-pay for a tube,
Ouch! BTW, the prescription strength for Ibuprofen is 800mg, which
means you can take 4 "little brown pills" 4 times a day. This was per
my doc, BUT, WARNING, WARNING, WARNING, don't do it for too long. I
think the doctors say for no more than a week or 2, but I always
stay lower than that. I've never done it for more than a few days at
a time. Another Prescription NSAID is Mobic (Meloxicam) which works
for me. Only 1 per day ... I never use it for more than a few days at
a time. And of course, never mix NSAIDS. I'm not a doc, just my own
experiences. Yours may be different ... ask you doc.

good info, but why the gel, the pills are cheap?

And at times, it may be good to alternate say aspirin and ibuprofen every
3 hrs, or acetaminophen and ibuprofen. ASK YOUR DOCTOR.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

I've heard alcohol plus aspirin really is hard on the
stomach lining. But, it seemed to have worked for you.

different meds for different folks.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Peter" wrote in message
...
On 11/4/2011 7:33 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I've met people who really enjoy hydrocodone. Me, it
doesn't
seem to do a thing. Just like not taking any meds at all.

Decades ago, when I had a "dry socket" after a wisdom tooth
extraction
(and the worst pain I've ever experienced), the oral surgeon
prescribed
some Percodan. After taking it, I wasn't bothered by the
pain, even
though I still felt it; however, I was very bothered by the
light-headedness and general sense of weirdness. I stopped
taking it
and went back to the most effective pain reliever in my
experience, a
small snack followed by 2 aspirin and a stiff shot of
bourbon.

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 07:33:26 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I've met people who really enjoy hydrocodone. Me, it doesn't
seem to do a thing. Just like not taking any meds at all.

That's what I liked about it. I felt nothing at all. No pain and no weird
feeling. Perfect.

On 04 Nov 2011 14:32:31 GMT, Han wrote:

Best to deal with the pain if you can.

In the case of aspirin, it is definitely a case of too much is wrong, if
we're talking about effects on the whole body in situations of cardiac-
related problems. Sorry to disagree.

The difference isn't worth worrying about. We're not talking about
mega-doses.

On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 10:32:15 -0400, Art Todesco wrote:

On 11/3/2011 9:59 PM, Han wrote:
wrote in :

On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 21:40:54 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Motrin IB isn't doing much good for me, tonight. The little
brown generic ibuprophen also don't do much good.

Aleve seems to help, generic naproxyn is useless.

Generic acetaminophen seems to help. Arthritis strength
generic acetaminophen seems to help.

Wish I could find a pill that's cheap, and relieves pain.

Voltaren (diclofenac) works for me (arthritis)
A generic is also pretty cheap.

Diclofenac is another good NSAID, but as with all NSAIDS, certain caveats
exist. I believe it is Rx, but should not be expensive. DAGS!!

I am using Voltaren (Diclofenac Gel) for a shoulder problem. Seems to
work, but it is pretty pricey. I paid around $50 co-pay for a tube,
Ouch! BTW, the prescription strength for Ibuprofen is 800mg, which
means you can take 4 "little brown pills" 4 times a day. This was per
my doc, BUT, WARNING, WARNING, WARNING, don't do it for too long. I
think the doctors say for no more than a week or 2, but I always
stay lower than that. I've never done it for more than a few days at a
time. Another Prescription NSAID is Mobic (Meloxicam) which works for
me. Only 1 per day ... I never use it for more than a few days at a
time. And of course, never mix NSAIDS. I'm not a doc, just my own
experiences. Yours may be different ... ask you doc.

Meloxicam is what I'm on for my wrist. According to the doc, it's a low-dose
NSAID with few problems and works great. The prescription says two weeks and
there is a refill.

"Han" wrote in message
...
"Steve B" wrote in
:


"Han" wrote in message
...
" wrote in
:

On Thu, 3 Nov 2011 10:16:32 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

You're right, I hadn't really given a lot of thought to
aspirin. Have to try that, see if it helps.

I don't take it much (other than 325mg/day for the heart) but I like
aspirin for headaches and some pain. It's great for fever and such.

325 mg/day is NOT the recommended dose for the heart. The officially
recommended dose is 85 mg/day. I participated as a coauthor in a
Spanish study where the doctors in charge used European dosages. We
found that 100 mg twice a day was really best, especially in
combination with a single 500 mg dose every 2 weeks.
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.lab.2005.12.005
Translate for US: half a tablet of 325 mg twice a day and 2 full 325
mg tablets every other weekend.

There are tests to see whether the aspirin you're taking is
effective, but that takes 1 1/2 oz of blood and several hours of a
technician's time.

I've also heard of lots of problems with Tylenol (R).

Acetominifin. Avoid it like the plague. Doesn't do anything for me
anyway.

Acetaminophen is a very good medication, but high doses over a long
time kill the liver.

Ibuprofin works much better as an NSAID but it too is dangerous in
large doses. I take it very sparingly but when my feet or knees act
up, I'll grab it.

Ibuprofen (Motrin, Advil) is another good medication, with the
proviso of all non-aspirin NSAIDs - they may enhance the risk of
heart attacks or strokes.

I "twanged" a tendon in my wrist last week (clamping pocket hole
clamp in an awkward position). The doctor at the Doc-in-the-box put
me on Tramadol. Took three and decided I preferred the pain. He
wouldn't put me on an NSAID because my BP spiked. The regular doc
put me on a low-dose NSAID. Works *great*. The swelling went down
within a couple of hours and the constant pain is gone (still can't
move the wrist - the brace makes it harder, too).

Tramadol in combination with acetaminophen (called Ultracet) is very
good for long term treatment of muscle pain etc. But it is a kissing
cousin of opioids ... I had no problem getting off of it when my
pains subsided, and it made me functional and painfree when I needed
it. I never had side effects from it.

Might part of my problem is my computer chair digs me in the
back. I've put on some padding, see if that helps. Thanks
for the common sense wisdom.

Get a better chair. Cheaping out on a chair that's used for any
time is foolish.

A good chair and frequently getting up is VERY important if posture
is the cause. So is exercising your back as well as the rest of your
body.

I am NOT a physician, and these are my personal opinions. Don't rely
on them, but DO talk to your doctor!!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

And a one size fits all across the board doesn't work. There are lots
of people who have either blood or clotting disorders/conditions that
have to be very careful. For them to take unknown things on the
advice of "It works for me", or "It worked for a lot of my friends" is
dangerous.

YOUR LAST SENTENCE IS OUTSTANDING, SIR! KUDOS! And talk to your
doctor BEFORE YOU TAKE THE FIRST PILL/WHATEVER.

What works for someone else can very easily kill you. And watch out
for those snakeoil vitamin salesmen, too. Multi-level marketing is
the second largest industry in my state, Utah, only second to tourism.
Vitamin and juice and supplement salesmen are as plenty as stars in
the western sky.

Steve, 9+ years on coumadin now, and knows a little bit about the
subject. (For blood clotting after artificial valve heart surgery.)

Warfarin (tradename of coumadin) has a long and colorful history, and in
my opinion is a very tough medication to adjust the dosage of. My former
boss is a big time hematologist and got on warfarin/coumadin because of
his heart, and I had to listen to his INR going off too many times. I
retired and don't have to listen any more.

Warfarin is named after the Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation, because
U Wisconsin scientists finally listened to the complaints of farmers
whose cattle were bleeding to death after eating moldy sweet clover. See
the history section of the wikipedia entry for the story.

Warfarin is a vitamin K antagonist. Vit K is necessary for a protein
modification that puts extra carboxyl groups on a number of proteins that
are clotting factors. Those extra COOH groups function to "anchor" those
proteins to cell membranes, where their close proximity enhamces
enzymatic activity many thousands of times. Preventing the process makes
it more difficult for blood to clot, and thereby prevents heart attacks.
Obviously if you go too far in this process you will bleed more or less
spontaneously, which is very bad too, especially in the brain.

The problems with dosing are complicated by the variable amounts of vit K
in foods, especially cabbages (broccoli) and dark leafy veggies. It's a
very delicate balancing act, and when you get older it gets worse.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

As I know. Mine should be between 3.0 and 3.5 for my heart valve. Last
month, it was 3.2, having spiked for the previous three months to almost 5,
no reason ever established. That would be much too high for a "normal"
human. I had a class on it in the hospital, and after leaving, so know a
LOT about foods and "stuff" on the lists. I must say that there is really
nothing on the lists that I have any particular problem with, and I can and
do eat small portions here and there. I took the coumadin curse because the
mechanical valve outlasts animal valves, and I didn't want to be having this
again in ten years, and it is ALREADY ten years. I (knock on wood) have not
had a serious injury in that time to test the effects in real time.

One of the major problems I have had in the last ten years, and the reason I
posted what I did above, was finding out in the tiny tiny print on the
disclaimer or information packet that a lot of things are not to be taken by
anyone on intentional blood thinners (warfarin, heparin, et al), or meds
that have a thinning effect, but people normally don't associate that common
med with blood thinning of reducing clotting. Example, common aspirin and
vitamin E fish oil. There are hundreds more. And a LOT (REPEAT! ...
LOT!) of these things being sold as supplements with very little testing,
may have incredible effects on thinning blood, but the companies are not
required to do the extensive testing, so many times are just running blind.
That is one of my pet peeves.

I must admit that I would like to find a good vitamin program that may
assist me with various ailments and conditions I have. The problem I have
is that the salesman are trained in selling, and cannot intelligently answer
questions regarding the medical or chemical aspects of their product. Since
it's all results oriented, they are not going to say any of this is bad for
you. And that is the problem that I have with 99% of the people selling
this stuff. Not enough research, and the attitude that if it was bad for
people, of course, they would not be selling it.

Were you involved in that Spanish study on blood pressure dosage timing
time of dosage? I need to write a blog on that on my site.

Well, I really need to write blogs on lots of things on my site, and get
busy and sell some more books, and dispense more information.

Steve

www.heartsurgerysurvival.com If you're new to this site, just go browse.
If you have been there, pardon the lack of new stuff. That should change
soon, and some new site appearance changes.

"Han" wrote in message
...
Best to deal with the pain if you can.

In the case of aspirin, it is definitely a case of too much is wrong, if
we're talking about effects on the whole body in situations of cardiac-
related problems. Sorry to disagree.


--
Best regards
Han

Too much aspirin can put you in the hemophiliac range, with regard to
bleeding from injury, or just spontaneous internal hemorrhaging.

CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR!

Steve

On 11/4/2011 10:48 AM, Steve B wrote:
wrote in message
...
Best to deal with the pain if you can.

In the case of aspirin, it is definitely a case of too much is wrong, if
we're talking about effects on the whole body in situations of cardiac-
related problems. Sorry to disagree.


--
Best regards
Han

Too much aspirin can put you in the hemophiliac range, with regard to
bleeding from injury, or just spontaneous internal hemorrhaging.

CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR!

Steve

i was on maintenance aspirin, and had to stop because when i cut myself
(i'm in the glass art business), it took too long to stop bleeding, and
the customers objected too much.

Decades ago, when I had a "dry socket" after a wisdom tooth extraction
(and the worst pain I've ever experienced), the oral surgeon prescribed
some Percodan. After taking it, I wasn't bothered by the pain, even
though I still felt it; however, I was very bothered by the
light-headedness and general sense of weirdness. I stopped taking it
and went back to the most effective pain reliever in my experience, a
small snack followed by 2 aspirin and a stiff shot of bourbon.

Whatever works in that particular circumstances. I only had percodan once
when I stuck a tie chain hook through my hand. Good thing my hands were
very cold at the time, or that could have hurt. ;-) It darn sure hurt
later when it warmed up.

As mentioned in a previous thread, hydrocodone has ceased to work for me,
and they have me on an advancing regimen of new stuff until they can get me
stabilized. I'm now in the pain management area of doctorhood. It is a
surprising area of medicine, different from all the others in that it is low
key, and the screening process is extensive to get into that program. Guess
druggies use it in a lot of places to get drugs, and several states have
become epidemic in overdose deaths of obviously healthy people who have the
money to get huge amounts of pain meds, which they then sell. One pill goes
for up to $80 on the black market. The last rx I was prescribed, it took
the pharmacy a week to get it. Some new stuff. I go tomorrow to pick it
up. Extended release stuff.

The main thing I can say is that it has affected my sense of taste after all
these years.

But, I'm still my happy former gregarious old self ................

Steve

dadiOH wrote:
I've had and still have back pains or sciatica occasionally. The
very best remedy is exercising the muscles that hold your spine
together. That includes belly of course. I should do my exercising
much more conscientiously. Physical therapy and chiropractic, or a
supervised exercise regimen in a gym are highly recommended!

All good but they aren't going to get the spinal canal back to its
former size, are they?

Physical therapy was one of the first things my (sports medicine) doctor
mentioned yesterday when he diagnosed me with a mildly herniated disc causing my
recent pain.

"Steve B" wrote in
news

"Han" wrote in message
...
Best to deal with the pain if you can.

In the case of aspirin, it is definitely a case of too much is wrong,
if we're talking about effects on the whole body in situations of
cardiac- related problems. Sorry to disagree.


--
Best regards
Han

Too much aspirin can put you in the hemophiliac range, with regard to
bleeding from injury, or just spontaneous internal hemorrhaging.

CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR!

Steve

Check with your doctor is good advice. If you really get uncontrolled
bleeding after aspirin, then you have other condition(s) as well. Not
funny. One story to illustrate:

An acquaintance had a terrible time with his back and went to NY
Hospital to have back surgery. Why a hematologist got involved I don't
know, but Dr. WWW requested a very simple test, called a bleeding time
test*. My friend's bleeding time was infinite (i.e., greater than 15
min - he didn't stop bleeding until pressure was exerted on the cut).
Upon questioning he admitted that he had smuggled his bottle of aspirin
into the hospital room. Surgery was canceled, of course, despite the
fact that there is disagreement as to whether a prolonged bleeding time
indicates bad surgical bleeding.

This is NOT normal. Further studies and history brought out that my
friend had von Willebrand's disease, a fairly common bleeding disorder
of great variability, and even sometimes with increased clotting. The
von WIllebrand's molecule is extremely interesting, unless you are the
victim of an abnormality.

The moral of the story is that if you have a hidden abnormality
something as simple as taking too much aspirin can make it into an ER
visit. Hence the adage: CHECK WITH YOUR DOCTOR. Not just any doctor,
one who knows your problems.

--
*Using a spring-loaded gadget a very precise standard small incision is
made on the inside of a forearm. If and when it starts bleeding (it
should), the blood is wicked away every few seconds with a sterile piece
of filter paper. The time till the bleeding stops spontaneously is
measured. It is significantly prolonged after aspirin. Different
gadgets and techniques are available.


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

chaniarts wrote in news:j918mr$gp7$2@dont-
email.me:

i was on maintenance aspirin, and had to stop because when i cut myself
(i'm in the glass art business), it took too long to stop bleeding, and
the customers objected too much.

Have you been checked for vWD (von willebrand's disease)? Your local
hematologist should be interested.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 11/4/2011 12:38 PM, Han wrote:
wrote in news:j918mr$gp7$2@dont-
email.me:

i was on maintenance aspirin, and had to stop because when i cut myself
(i'm in the glass art business), it took too long to stop bleeding, and
the customers objected too much.

Have you been checked for vWD (von willebrand's disease)? Your local
hematologist should be interested.


no. i have never had any problems clotting when not using aspirin.

"Steve B" wrote in
:

As I know. Mine should be between 3.0 and 3.5 for my heart valve.
Last month, it was 3.2, having spiked for the previous three months to
almost 5, no reason ever established. That would be much too high for
a "normal" human. I had a class on it in the hospital, and after
leaving, so know a LOT about foods and "stuff" on the lists. I must
say that there is really nothing on the lists that I have any
particular problem with, and I can and do eat small portions here and
there. I took the coumadin curse because the mechanical valve
outlasts animal valves, and I didn't want to be having this again in
ten years, and it is ALREADY ten years. I (knock on wood) have not
had a serious injury in that time to test the effects in real time.

3 to 3.5 is a fairly high INR, I think. An elderly acqaintance once had
an INR of 8, no real reason, and was bleeding. Had to go to rehab, and
lived for a few more years thereafter. I don't think she had a real
stroke, but it was probably close.

One of the major problems I have had in the last ten years, and the
reason I posted what I did above, was finding out in the tiny tiny
print on the disclaimer or information packet that a lot of things are
not to be taken by anyone on intentional blood thinners (warfarin,
heparin, et al),

Warfarin and heparin work totally differently, but both inhibit clotting.

or meds that have a thinning effect, but people
normally don't associate that common med with blood thinning of
reducing clotting. Example, common aspirin and vitamin E fish oil.

Fish oil contains higher polyunsaturated fatty acids (EPA and DHA
mainly). These are essential for good health, but in large amounts as in
those supplements thay will compete with the normal substrate for COX
(which is arachidonic acid). That means less of the more normal products
(especially thromboxane, TX) are formed, and some of the more exotic
products get made. The latter have the opposite results on platelet
aggregation as the pro-aggregatory TX. Aspirin, by killing COX, blocks
most TX formation. This is the most important aspect of aspirin with
regards to the heart and bleeding. So, the effects of aspirin and very
high doses of fish oil are at least additive, and if you have another
"defect" like vWD, you can get into bleeding trouble easily.

There are hundreds more. And a LOT (REPEAT! ... LOT!) of these
things being sold as supplements with very little testing, may have
incredible effects on thinning blood, but the companies are not
required to do the extensive testing, so many times are just running
blind. That is one of my pet peeves.

That's the general objection against the use of supplements. It is scary
....

I must admit that I would like to find a good vitamin program that may
assist me with various ailments and conditions I have. The problem I
have is that the salesman are trained in selling, and cannot
intelligently answer questions regarding the medical or chemical
aspects of their product. Since it's all results oriented, they are
not going to say any of this is bad for you. And that is the problem
that I have with 99% of the people selling this stuff. Not enough
research, and the attitude that if it was bad for people, of course,
they would not be selling it.

Were you involved in that Spanish study on blood pressure dosage
timing time of dosage? I need to write a blog on that on my site.

I don't think so. Our Spanish colleagues were M. Teresa Santos and Juana
Vallès. If their names are not on your paper, I was definitely not
involved.

Well, I really need to write blogs on lots of things on my site, and
get busy and sell some more books, and dispense more information.

Good luck!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Thu, 03 Nov 2011 23:41:46 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 3 Nov 2011 21:39:33 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I'll admit, I've never heard of that. Is it Rx?


Voltaren (diclofenac) works for me (arthritis)
A generic is also pretty cheap.


It is Rx now but it is supposed to be coming off. I have some nasty
inflammatory arthritis similar but not RA and this was the magic
potion, after lots of misses and thousands of dollars of doctor visits
(X rays, MRIs etc). This and a good physical therapist was worth more
than everything else I endured.

I really only take them when I am having a problem.

Likewise. The Voltaren is all that kept me going for quite a few years
(shoulders)

chaniarts wrote in news:j91f6t$2p3$1@dont-
email.me:

On 11/4/2011 12:38 PM, Han wrote:
wrote in news:j918mr$gp7$2@dont-
email.me:

i was on maintenance aspirin, and had to stop because when i cut myself
(i'm in the glass art business), it took too long to stop bleeding, and
the customers objected too much.

Have you been checked for vWD (von willebrand's disease)? Your local
hematologist should be interested.


no. i have never had any problems clotting when not using aspirin.

That is one kind of "test" for vWD - no bleeding without aspirin, excessive
bleeding with ASA. Ever had any teeth extracted? If so, lots of bleeding
or not? But this is getting too personal, I'm afraid. I still think you
might want to check with your doctor, not with me ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 11/4/2011 2:46 PM, Bob F wrote:
dadiOH wrote:
I've had and still have back pains or sciatica occasionally. The
very best remedy is exercising the muscles that hold your spine
together. That includes belly of course. I should do my exercising
much more conscientiously. Physical therapy and chiropractic, or a
supervised exercise regimen in a gym are highly recommended!

All good but they aren't going to get the spinal canal back to its
former size, are they?

Physical therapy was one of the first things my (sports medicine) doctor
mentioned yesterday when he diagnosed me with a mildly herniated disc causing my
recent pain.



I'm not into diagnosing people or arguing with docs, but...if he meant
"bulging" disc (where the sac hasn't ruptured) it may be more age
related than anything. There is often some bulging or some
deteriorating of discs with aging, and getting back in shape and
strengthening muscles can provide relief. Good luck with your back )

If a worker were bleeding around me, I'd be concerned, not
complaining.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"chaniarts"
wrote in message ...

i was on maintenance aspirin, and had to stop because when i
cut myself
(i'm in the glass art business), it took too long to stop
bleeding, and
the customers objected too much.

I've heard anecotes, in various directions. People want to
get stoned. Dotors who under prescribe, for fear of the FDA.
I think it's a shame that people abuse meds. I'm sure
medicine abuse has gone on since there have been medicines.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Steve B" wrote in message
...

Whatever works in that particular circumstances. I only had
percodan once
when I stuck a tie chain hook through my hand. Good thing
my hands were
very cold at the time, or that could have hurt. ;-) It
darn sure hurt
later when it warmed up.

As mentioned in a previous thread, hydrocodone has ceased to
work for me,
and they have me on an advancing regimen of new stuff until
they can get me
stabilized. I'm now in the pain management area of
doctorhood. It is a
surprising area of medicine, different from all the others
in that it is low
key, and the screening process is extensive to get into that
program. Guess
druggies use it in a lot of places to get drugs, and several
states have
become epidemic in overdose deaths of obviously healthy
people who have the
money to get huge amounts of pain meds, which they then
sell. One pill goes
for up to $80 on the black market. The last rx I was
prescribed, it took
the pharmacy a week to get it. Some new stuff. I go
tomorrow to pick it
up. Extended release stuff.

The main thing I can say is that it has affected my sense of
taste after all
these years.

But, I'm still my happy former gregarious old self
.................

Steve

"Han" wrote

*Using a spring-loaded gadget a very precise standard small incision is
made on the inside of a forearm. If and when it starts bleeding (it
should), the blood is wicked away every few seconds with a sterile piece
of filter paper. The time till the bleeding stops spontaneously is
measured. It is significantly prolonged after aspirin. Different
gadgets and techniques are available.


--
Best regards
Han

I had one of those tests before heart surgery. It made a pop, and stung a
little. I was surprised that it made a cut that I could not see, yet it
bled. They had a piece of paper, and every few seconds, they would touch a
new side of the small four sided paper, and the blood would make a little
half circle, which got progressively smaller. I have never seen one nor had
that test since.

Steve

"Han" wrote

3 to 3.5 is a fairly high INR, I think. An elderly acqaintance once had
an INR of 8, no real reason, and was bleeding. Had to go to rehab, and
lived for a few more years thereafter. I don't think she had a real
stroke, but it was probably close.

It is very high for a "normal" person, but the range for someone with an
artificial heart valve. I have had a couple of nurses and tekkies who saw
it and exclaimed surprise, then had to explain it to them. Over the last 15
years, it is amazing the number of "professionals" I have had to explain
things to.

An INR of 8 in a person is reason for just "leaking" internally from any
damaged, stressed, diseased, or weak tissue. Spontaneous hemorrhaging.
An external wound would be almost nonstoppable.

I have been trying to find some Max Clot for my first aid kit, a coagulant
aid.

Steve

Well, now you know.... and so do a lot of other folks. Me, I
found it intersting and informative. Thank you, to Han, who
wrote of the test.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Steve B" wrote in message
...

I had one of those tests before heart surgery. It made a
pop, and stung a
little. I was surprised that it made a cut that I could not
see, yet it
bled. They had a piece of paper, and every few seconds,
they would touch a
new side of the small four sided paper, and the blood would
make a little
half circle, which got progressively smaller. I have never
seen one nor had
that test since.

Steve

On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 18:22:10 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I've heard anecotes, in various directions. People want to
get stoned. Dotors who under prescribe, for fear of the FDA.

Not so much the FDA, AIUI, rather the DEA. They have no sense of humor at
all.

I think it's a shame that people abuse meds. I'm sure
medicine abuse has gone on since there have been medicines.

Lots of things are "a shame". It's one of the costs of free will.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:j91qd3
:

Well, now you know.... and so do a lot of other folks. Me, I
found it intersting and informative. Thank you, to Han, who
wrote of the test.

The test is a very good one, but it requires a fair amount of time and
meticulous technique. Unfortunately some big important people have
discounted it as not reliable and not matching with other important
indicators. I really wish we had had an opportunity to use the test and
see for ourselves.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"Steve B" wrote in
:

I have been trying to find some Max Clot for my first aid kit, a
coagulant aid.


I was not aware of such a material, and google wasn't helpful. What is
this stuff? I'm vaguely aware of bandage-type things with calcium and
tissue factor or something like that?

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 11/4/2011 6:22 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I've heard anecotes, in various directions. People want to
get stoned. Dotors who under prescribe, for fear of the FDA.
I think it's a shame that people abuse meds. I'm sure
medicine abuse has gone on since there have been medicines.


I'd like to meet the doc who underprescribes...never set eyes on one)
I heard recent statistics about sales of oxycodone...80-90% is sold in
Florida? Couple of thousand o.d. deaths there in a year? Last year
some counties in Florida were clamping down on the "pain clinic" pill
mills...pix in the paper of people lined up outside the clinics to get
their prescriptions, many from out of town. The docs who operate that
way should be prosecuted for murder if their patients die of o.d.

Quick clot. See other post, with that title. Z medica.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Han" wrote in message
...
"Steve B" wrote in
:

I have been trying to find some Max Clot for my first aid
kit, a
coagulant aid.


I was not aware of such a material, and google wasn't
helpful. What is
this stuff? I'm vaguely aware of bandage-type things with
calcium and
tissue factor or something like that?

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Z-Medica QuikClot Emergency Blood Loss Stopper

as mentioned in a post with that name. I've been fortunate
not to have ever needed it. Supposed to get hot when
applied. Beats bleeding to death.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Steve B" wrote in message
.. .

"Han" wrote

3 to 3.5 is a fairly high INR, I think. An elderly
acqaintance once had
an INR of 8, no real reason, and was bleeding. Had to go
to rehab, and
lived for a few more years thereafter. I don't think she
had a real
stroke, but it was probably close.

It is very high for a "normal" person, but the range for
someone with an
artificial heart valve. I have had a couple of nurses and
tekkies who saw
it and exclaimed surprise, then had to explain it to them.
Over the last 15
years, it is amazing the number of "professionals" I have
had to explain
things to.

An INR of 8 in a person is reason for just "leaking"
internally from any
damaged, stressed, diseased, or weak tissue. Spontaneous
hemorrhaging.
An external wound would be almost nonstoppable.

I have been trying to find some Max Clot for my first aid
kit, a coagulant
aid.

Steve

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:j927um
:

Quick clot. See other post, with that title. Z medica.

OK. Like a surgical dressing, but impregnated with kaolin. Kaolin, a
purified clay, very, very strongly promotes clotting by providing a surface
that the clotting factors can adhere to. I believe it was developed to
assist in stopping bleeding on the battlefield. Or at least that is a
practical application.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in news:j9282j
:

Z-Medica QuikClot Emergency Blood Loss Stopper

as mentioned in a post with that name. I've been fortunate
not to have ever needed it. Supposed to get hot when
applied. Beats bleeding to death.

But it is for EXTERNAL bleeding only. If your INR gets too high, it's
internal bleeding that'll kill you, since generally you don't notice it,
especially in the brain.

I know there are now INR tests you can do at home, and that doing so is
(about to?) being promoted by the insurance companies, or doctors. Habe
you inquired about that? Better to get a vit K injection as an antidote to
warfarin before you need to use that Quickclot in your brain grin.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid