I continued to ache, so I don't bother with hydrocodone any
more.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...
On Fri, 4 Nov 2011 07:33:26 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

I've met people who really enjoy hydrocodone. Me, it
doesn't
seem to do a thing. Just like not taking any meds at all.

That's what I liked about it. I felt nothing at all. No
pain and no weird
feeling. Perfect.

On 11/4/2011 12:19 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 04 Nov 2011 10:32:15 -0400, Art
wrote:

On 11/3/2011 9:59 PM, Han wrote:
wrote in :

On Wed, 2 Nov 2011 21:40:54 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Motrin IB isn't doing much good for me, tonight. The little
brown generic ibuprophen also don't do much good.

Aleve seems to help, generic naproxyn is useless.

Generic acetaminophen seems to help. Arthritis strength
generic acetaminophen seems to help.

Wish I could find a pill that's cheap, and relieves pain.

Voltaren (diclofenac) works for me (arthritis)
A generic is also pretty cheap.

Diclofenac is another good NSAID, but as with all NSAIDS, certain caveats
exist. I believe it is Rx, but should not be expensive. DAGS!!

I am using Voltaren (Diclofenac Gel) for a shoulder problem. Seems to
work, but it is pretty pricey. I paid around $50 co-pay for a tube,
Ouch! BTW, the prescription strength for Ibuprofen is 800mg, which
means you can take 4 "little brown pills" 4 times a day. This was per
my doc, BUT, WARNING, WARNING, WARNING, don't do it for too long. I
think the doctors say for no more than a week or 2, but I always
stay lower than that. I've never done it for more than a few days at a
time. Another Prescription NSAID is Mobic (Meloxicam) which works for
me. Only 1 per day ... I never use it for more than a few days at a
time. And of course, never mix NSAIDS. I'm not a doc, just my own
experiences. Yours may be different ... ask you doc.

I have some of that gel but I am not sure it is really that great.
I have 2 kinds of the pills, white ones and brown ones but I seldom
take them. A bottle of 30 will last me a year or more.
I try to avoid drugs of all kinds.
Ditto for me, on avoiding drugs. But as we age, the number per day
seems to always be going up. You really should know what "brown ones"
and "white ones" are. My wife is was a pharm tech and she used to get
calls from seniors saying that they need to refill their pink pills. We
really need to know what we are taking. BTW, on Meloxican, I had a
Gastroenterologist senior partner that said he took Meloxicam everyday
for aches and pains, etc., not related to his specialization. He said
it is a gentle NSAID and as to effects on your body, it's like "peeing
in the ocean." I don't know if I would agree to take it everyday,
however, I don't have a problem with short term use.

On 11/4/2011 1:45 PM, Steve B wrote:

I must admit that I would like to find a good vitamin program that may
assist me with various ailments and conditions I have. The problem I have
is that the salesman are trained in selling, and cannot intelligently answer
questions regarding the medical or chemical aspects of their product. Since
it's all results oriented, they are not going to say any of this is bad for
you. And that is the problem that I have with 99% of the people selling
this stuff. Not enough research, and the attitude that if it was bad for
people, of course, they would not be selling it.


No enough research is done on these items because they are classified as
supplements, not drugs, and by law, the FDA's regulatory requirements
for allowing them on the market is quite different. Drugs have to be
shown by scientific testing to be both safe and effective. Supplements
only have to be shown to be safe. Lots of products are grandfathered
("generally regarded as safe") and don't officially have to meet any
criterion other than not to test adulterated.

Additionally, it is MUCH cheaper to market a supplement. Current PHARMA
estimates are that it costs about $1B to invent, fully test, license,
produce, and distribute a new drug. Nothing near that for a supplement.

I interpret your comment about salesmen as pertaining to salesmen of
supplements. However, much of your criticism applies as well to drug
"detail men" that make the rounds of doctors' offices and hospitals,
handing out samples and trying to convince their potential clients to
prescribe and/or purchase what they are selling. Although they can only
legally speak to the FDA licensed indications and contraindications of
their products, as well as the chemical aspects of those products, they
too are predominantly trained to sell, and you will never hear any of
them saying anything negative about their wares.

"Han" wrote in message
...
"Steve B" wrote in
:

I have been trying to find some Max Clot for my first aid kit, a
coagulant aid.


I was not aware of such a material, and google wasn't helpful. What is
this stuff? I'm vaguely aware of bandage-type things with calcium and
tissue factor or something like that?

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Z-Medica QuikClot Emergency Blood Loss System. Now a whole new thread.

I'm going to have to get at least one. It has two sponges, I wonder if the
application MIGHT be stretched to two separate wounds if they were small
enough. Some interesting reading about its development, methods of use,
ingredients, how it works, etc.

Steve

"Han" wrote

I know there are now INR tests you can do at home, and that doing so is
(about to?) being promoted by the insurance companies, or doctors. Habe
you inquired about that? Better to get a vit K injection as an antidote
to
warfarin before you need to use that Quickclot in your brain grin.

--
Best regards
Han

Am VERY interested in the home kit. I get mine done for free, but it is a
hassle. I have to drive 150 miles to Las Vegas to get it done, but do it
whenever I'm there on business, which is once a month or more. A home kit
sure would be nice, but the Dr.'s office said THEIR unit was $1800. Post
more info if you find it, or

Steve

"Norminn" wrote in message
...
On 11/4/2011 6:22 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I've heard anecotes, in various directions. People want to
get stoned. Dotors who under prescribe, for fear of the FDA.
I think it's a shame that people abuse meds. I'm sure
medicine abuse has gone on since there have been medicines.


I'd like to meet the doc who underprescribes...never set eyes on one)
I heard recent statistics about sales of oxycodone...80-90% is sold in
Florida? Couple of thousand o.d. deaths there in a year? Last year some
counties in Florida were clamping down on the "pain clinic" pill
mills...pix in the paper of people lined up outside the clinics to get
their prescriptions, many from out of town. The docs who operate that way
should be prosecuted for murder if their patients die of o.d.

Been reading that they are pulling in the reins. The 80 mg. pills would
sell for $80 per pill on the street, and the Dr. would prescribe up to 120
at a time. The "appointment, et al" was about $600, IIRC. There was a
"news" story on this. So, only a $9,000 profit for a day's work.

I am in pain management in Nevada. It is more complex there, and the
medical history has to be more than Florida requires, and most of the
patients in Florida wouldn't get past the system in Nevada to get the "good
stuff". Very young, very apparently healthy patients in Florida are getting
prescribed oxycontin, which is above oxycodone in lethality. And patients
with histories of very slight injuries.

But, as I say, they are supposed to be cracking down on them. I hear also
California is cracking down on the marijuana dispensaries, as I knew they
would. They started off with good intentions, then the druggies came, then
the cartels came as a way to launder money and dispose of product, hence
........... It should have never derived from the line of just plain
legalized marijuana for everyone who wanted it, just like alcohol. And
taxed similarly. But they had to get fancy, and political, and the results
were predictable.

Steve

"Steve B" wrote in
:


"Han" wrote

I know there are now INR tests you can do at home, and that doing so
is (about to?) being promoted by the insurance companies, or doctors.
Habe you inquired about that? Better to get a vit K injection as an
antidote to
warfarin before you need to use that Quickclot in your brain grin.

--
Best regards
Han

Am VERY interested in the home kit. I get mine done for free, but it
is a hassle. I have to drive 150 miles to Las Vegas to get it done,
but do it whenever I'm there on business, which is once a month or
more. A home kit sure would be nice, but the Dr.'s office said THEIR
unit was $1800. Post more info if you find it, or


Steve

I'm not really interested enough to go find the info, but I'll keep you
in mind if I run across it. Oh, just google inr home test and this is
the first link:
http://www.inrselftest.com/content/


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 06 Nov 2011 01:59:03 GMT, Han wrote:




Am VERY interested in the home kit. I get mine done for free, but it
is a hassle. I have to drive 150 miles to Las Vegas to get it done,
but do it whenever I'm there on business, which is once a month or
more. A home kit sure would be nice, but the Dr.'s office said THEIR
unit was $1800. Post more info if you find it, or


Steve

I'm not really interested enough to go find the info, but I'll keep you
in mind if I run across it. Oh, just google inr home test and this is
the first link:
http://www.inrselftest.com/content/


Thanks, Han. Last time I mentioned home testing to my wife's doctor,
I got a strange look and he said it did not exist. This will get
things started. She has to be tested every 1 to 2 weeks and will be
on warfarin for the rest of her life. This would be great.

Ed Pawlowski wrote in
:

On 06 Nov 2011 01:59:03 GMT, Han wrote:




Am VERY interested in the home kit. I get mine done for free, but it
is a hassle. I have to drive 150 miles to Las Vegas to get it done,
but do it whenever I'm there on business, which is once a month or
more. A home kit sure would be nice, but the Dr.'s office said THEIR
unit was $1800. Post more info if you find it, or


Steve

I'm not really interested enough to go find the info, but I'll keep you
in mind if I run across it. Oh, just google inr home test and this is
the first link:
http://www.inrselftest.com/content/


Thanks, Han. Last time I mentioned home testing to my wife's doctor,
I got a strange look and he said it did not exist. This will get
things started. She has to be tested every 1 to 2 weeks and will be
on warfarin for the rest of her life. This would be great.

Ed, I'd also check with the insurance company. If that fails as well,
check with a real hematologist. I have known Bob Handin since the early
70's (as a colleague of my bosses):
http://www.dfhcc.harvard.edu/membership/profile/member/21/0/

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 11/5/2011 2:59 AM, Han wrote:
"Stormin wrote in news:j927um
:

Quick clot. See other post, with that title. Z medica.

OK. Like a surgical dressing, but impregnated with kaolin. Kaolin, a
purified clay, very, very strongly promotes clotting by providing a surface
that the clotting factors can adhere to. I believe it was developed to
assist in stopping bleeding on the battlefield. Or at least that is a
practical application.


kaolin is a common clay, used in pottery production.most probably
probably used it for injuries hundreds of years ago. i also use it as a
glass separator (so glass doesn't stick to things at high temps).

On 11/3/2011 7:45 AM, Han wrote:
"Stormin wrote in
:

Motrin IB isn't doing much good for me, tonight. The little
brown generic ibuprophen also don't do much good.

Aleve seems to help, generic naproxyn is useless.

Generic acetaminophen seems to help. Arthritis strength
generic acetaminophen seems to help.

Wish I could find a pill that's cheap, and relieves pain.

This may be more than you want ... And you didn't say what kind of pain.

Acetaminophen is in a class by itself. It's not really known how it
works.

NSAIDS all work by inhibiting cyclooxygenase enzymes, of which there are
2 kinds - COX-1 and COX-2.

COX-1 is irreversibly killed by aspirin. Your cells need to make new
protein COX-1 to get its products again. That's why low-dose aspirin
prevents platelet aggregation and in doing so reduces the risk of heart
attacks and strokes, which are in part associated with thromboxane
formation, mainly from COX-1.
There has been a lot of talk in the literature of "aspirin resistance",
but now there are only 3 known kinds of aspirin-resistance: 1) Failure
to take the aspirin (i.e. patients forgot they didn't take the pills or
they lied about it). 2) There is an absorption problem in the upper
intestines (this is rare). 3) There is a systemic problem whereby
platelet turnover is greatly increased (normally platelets live ~6 days,
then die). Other cells can make the same things that platelets make in
great abundance, so sometimes they take over and cause problems.

Most other NSAIDS are reversible inhibitors of the COX's with different
affinities for either one. That means 2 things. A) COX-2 is associated
with making products that are good for you (e.g. prostacyclin inhibits
platelets). So inhibiting COX-2 more than COX-1 may not be so good. It
is thought that COX-2 inhibition was part of the problem with Vioxx, but
in my expert and not humble opinion this doesn't explain everything about
Vioxx. B) If you take ibuprofen (an example of a reversible COX
inhibitor) for pain, then take aspirin for your heart, you may be doing
things wrong. To help against heart disease, you should be taking
aspirin 1 hour before ibuprofen and let more than 6 hours pass after
taking ibuprofen before taking aspirin. That's because you need to let
the ibuprofen get flushed out of your system sothe COX molecule is free
of it, because if the ibuprofen is sitting on the protein when aspirin
needs to get there, the aspirin will just pass by without doing anything.

NOTE that the above is for getting effective against heart disease, not
effective against pain. Aspirin needs much bigger doses against pain as
against heart problems.

When I had a lot of pain (the chronic kind) I got a prescription for
Ultracethttp://www.drugs.com/ultracet.html. That helped me. It is a
step below the real opioids ...


I take generic Tramadol and Naproxen Sodium for my chronic pain. It
helps without giving me that yucky feeling in the middle of my chest.
That yucky feeling is about the only way I can describe the way some
medications make me feel. That's why I don't like taking any drugs.

TDD

Intersting. Both of those work for me, too. If you're ever
in the area, feel free to stop in and borrow a cup of sugar,
and a couple pain pills (not serious, of course.)

Incidentally, Tramadol *IS* the generic name, for Ultram.

Naproxyn sodium is generic for Aleve.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas"
wrote in message ...

I take generic Tramadol and Naproxen Sodium for my chronic
pain. It
helps without giving me that yucky feeling in the middle of
my chest.
That yucky feeling is about the only way I can describe the
way some
medications make me feel. That's why I don't like taking any
drugs.

TDD

On 11/13/2011 9:09 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Intersting. Both of those work for me, too. If you're ever
in the area, feel free to stop in and borrow a cup of sugar,
and a couple pain pills (not serious, of course.)

Incidentally, Tramadol *IS* the generic name, for Ultram.

Naproxyn sodium is generic for Aleve.


Perhaps I should have written "I take the generics...." ^_^

TDD

On 11/3/2011 8:56 AM, gpsman wrote:
On Nov 2, 9:40 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Wish I could find a pill that's cheap, and relieves pain.

All part of God's mysterious plan to punish snip-averse top posters
who use Usenet as their personal "social media".
-----


God will get you...... ^_^

TDD

On 11/3/2011 9:11 AM, Peter wrote:
On 11/2/2011 9:40 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Motrin IB isn't doing much good for me, tonight. The little
brown generic ibuprophen also don't do much good.

Aleve seems to help, generic naproxyn is useless.

Generic acetaminophen seems to help. Arthritis strength
generic acetaminophen seems to help.

Wish I could find a pill that's cheap, and relieves pain.

Aspirin, because it has been around for so long, and because it has
always been a non-prescription medication, doesn't get much respect in
the lay community. And, if doctors advise patients to use it, they are
likely to hear, "I waited 2 weeks to see you, I have to pay a co-pay,
and all you tell me is take aspirin?" However, it is an excellent pain
reliever and in most studies, no less strong a pain reliever than any of
the non-steroidal anti-inflammatory meds.

Chances are good (but not certain) that if you don't have medical
contra-indications for using ibuprophen and naproxyn, you don't have
medical contra-indications for using aspirin. If you don't, you may be
surprised how effective 650mg of aspirin 3-4x/day can be in relieving
pain. Don't give up if you are unimpressed after the first 1 or 2 doses.
It takes a few days for the blood level of aspirin to max out at a
therapeutically effective steady state level, which is higher than you
achieve during the first day or so of treatment.

Obviously, without knowing your full medical history and status, it may
be medically wrong for you. Consult your family MD first if you are not
sure. If you do try it, try to take the doses either with or soon after
a meal - or at least a snack - and avoid caffeine and alcohol - both of
which greatly increase the risk of serious stomach irritation, ulcers,
gastro-intestinal bleeding, etc. Consult the web or package insert and
be aware of the side effects that signal a need to immediately stop
taking aspirin - excessive blood levels can do more than just affect
your stomach.

Acetaminophen is only a mild analgesic (pain reliever) and has no
anti-inflammatory effect. It works for mild pain in some people, and is
entirely ineffective in some. It also has a very small margin of safety
between maximal safe dose and dangerously toxic dose. Probably should
really be by prescription only, or removed from the market entirely.
Hope you feel better. Distract yourself by reading some Paul Krugman.


When I took high doses of aspirin for pain, it turned the water in the
toilet red whenever I dropped a load of ready mix. I had to take multi
vitamins for women because the pills contained iron. ^_^

TDD

TMI, brother! TMI!!!!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"The Daring Dufas"
wrote in message ...

When I took high doses of aspirin for pain, it
turned the water in the toilet red whenever I
dropped a load of ready mix. I had to take
multi vitamins for women because the pills
contained iron. ^_^

TDD

On Nov 2, 9:40 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Wish I could find a pill that's cheap, and relieves pain.

In an insurance plan, meds are not very expensive. For me, they run from
free (some fed program) to 50 cents each max. Mostly around 4 to twenty
cents each. And that's for the good stuff. Check with your insurance.

Steve