On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 03:50:34 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 18:52:02 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 19:05:54 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 12:58:58 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 04:06:10 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 21:40:29 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 17:01:44 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 13:14:58 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 08:11:27 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 23:00:44 +1100, "Grumpy"
wrote:

Did it ever occur to anyone on this newsgroup that there are a LOT of places
outside of the US that aregood places to live?
Places where you don't have crackheads and gangs hanging on every corner.
The place is stuffed. get out of it and join the real world. Half your
population dont vote and you get the politicians you deserve as a result. Go
to the polls and turf them out if you don't like them. Don't waste bandwidth
whining about it on a newsgroup dedicated to metalworking,


You will never learn of nice places around the world. The USA is all
about hate and lies that will always make it seem like the world
revolves around America and every place else is meaningless. Americans
are the greatest race of people on the planet. The right is in the
process of saving the universe from the left wing socialist commie pot
smoking baby killing Godless outcasts and Bush was the greatest leader
the world has ever known. I wonder who can ever fill his shoes. Maybe
Cain or Perry or Romney or Palin or any of the rest of those clueless
wing nuts can manage to funnel the rest of the money to the top 2%.

So you you are in a park someplace protesting and ****ting in a plastic
bag?

Sucks to be you. Gonna be hanging around when the snow falls?

Laugh laugh laugh!!

This is gonna be fun to watch when winter sets in....VBG

Gunner

There you go again with more lies. This is all you tards know how to
do. Posting with your head up your ass again hey Gummer?

What lies? Hummmm? Gonna freeze your ass off squatting on a porta
pottie in DC or some other place?

Laugh laugh laugh..you will be back in your mommas basement the first
time the frost sets in.

****ing wienie Leftwingers....dumb as dirt and have zero staying power
if they are uncomfortable.

Gunner

As usual you have no idea what you are talking about but keep trying.
Running and trying to divert from the truth that you wingers ran this
county into the ditch is all you have.

Must suck to be as clueless as you.

Must suck to be a lying Leftwinger as you have shown yourself to be.

Biased, bigoted, racist, bull****er and buffoon..you cover them all.

VBG

Gunner


All you have are lies. I do love it when you melt down Gumby. I have
posted nothing that show I am any of the above. What did I post that
says I am racist? You have nothing little man. Must suck to be mad at
the world Gumby.

EVERY post you make is filled with lies. Including this one. Making an
observation of your mental illness and hate, buffoonery and bias and
bigoty is hardly a "meltdown" you poor sorry bit of dreck.

When the Cull arrives..the world will be a far better, cleaner place
with you dead.


You are the only one melting down loon. You get more sickly with
every post.

Shrug..and you get closer to the bottom of a mass grave with each
passing day.

VBG
Works for me.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 15:48:26 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:


laugh laugh laugh..and with each post you make..you get closer to a mass
grave filled with your fellow mental cases.

Ill kinda miss you. Having you around is like having a retarded chimp on
an organ grinders chain where everyone can laugh at it.

What in the world are you babbling about now? Because I and most of
the rest of the country knows the republicans left this county in the
state it is in

And again he shows his mental illness and "megalomania".

VBG

Typical Leftwinger...full of **** and sick in the head.

Say...hows those approval polls for the Obamassiah doing these days?

Laugh laugh laugh!!!

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 16:26:23 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Allen Drake wrote:

Because I and most of the rest of the country knows the republicans
left this county in the state it is in


Which county?

The same country that Bush and the republicans lead into a ditch. The
entire world knows what happened and who was to blame.

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 15:06:52 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 15:48:26 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:


laugh laugh laugh..and with each post you make..you get closer to a mass
grave filled with your fellow mental cases.

Ill kinda miss you. Having you around is like having a retarded chimp on
an organ grinders chain where everyone can laugh at it.

What in the world are you babbling about now? Because I and most of
the rest of the country knows the republicans left this county in the
state it is in

And again he shows his mental illness and "megalomania".

VBG

Typical Leftwinger...full of **** and sick in the head.

Say...hows those approval polls for the Obamassiah doing these days?

Laugh laugh laugh!!!

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch


Yes Gumby, we all know how loony you are. Not many think the
republicans were not to blame. How does it feel to be such a nut case?

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 13:55:54 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 03:50:34 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 18:52:02 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 19:05:54 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 12:58:58 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 04:06:10 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 21:40:29 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 17:01:44 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 13:14:58 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 08:11:27 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 23:00:44 +1100, "Grumpy"
wrote:

Did it ever occur to anyone on this newsgroup that there are a LOT of places
outside of the US that aregood places to live?
Places where you don't have crackheads and gangs hanging on every corner.
The place is stuffed. get out of it and join the real world. Half your
population dont vote and you get the politicians you deserve as a result. Go
to the polls and turf them out if you don't like them. Don't waste bandwidth
whining about it on a newsgroup dedicated to metalworking,


You will never learn of nice places around the world. The USA is all
about hate and lies that will always make it seem like the world
revolves around America and every place else is meaningless. Americans
are the greatest race of people on the planet. The right is in the
process of saving the universe from the left wing socialist commie pot
smoking baby killing Godless outcasts and Bush was the greatest leader
the world has ever known. I wonder who can ever fill his shoes. Maybe
Cain or Perry or Romney or Palin or any of the rest of those clueless
wing nuts can manage to funnel the rest of the money to the top 2%.

So you you are in a park someplace protesting and ****ting in a plastic
bag?

Sucks to be you. Gonna be hanging around when the snow falls?

Laugh laugh laugh!!

This is gonna be fun to watch when winter sets in....VBG

Gunner

There you go again with more lies. This is all you tards know how to
do. Posting with your head up your ass again hey Gummer?

What lies? Hummmm? Gonna freeze your ass off squatting on a porta
pottie in DC or some other place?

Laugh laugh laugh..you will be back in your mommas basement the first
time the frost sets in.

****ing wienie Leftwingers....dumb as dirt and have zero staying power
if they are uncomfortable.

Gunner

As usual you have no idea what you are talking about but keep trying.
Running and trying to divert from the truth that you wingers ran this
county into the ditch is all you have.

Must suck to be as clueless as you.

Must suck to be a lying Leftwinger as you have shown yourself to be.

Biased, bigoted, racist, bull****er and buffoon..you cover them all.

VBG

Gunner


All you have are lies. I do love it when you melt down Gumby. I have
posted nothing that show I am any of the above. What did I post that
says I am racist? You have nothing little man. Must suck to be mad at
the world Gumby.

EVERY post you make is filled with lies. Including this one. Making an
observation of your mental illness and hate, buffoonery and bias and
bigoty is hardly a "meltdown" you poor sorry bit of dreck.

When the Cull arrives..the world will be a far better, cleaner place
with you dead.


You are the only one melting down loon. You get more sickly with
every post.

Shrug..and you get closer to the bottom of a mass grave with each
passing day.

VBG
Works for me.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Gumby nothing seems to work for you. No matter how hard you try you
can't worm out and convince anyone the previous administration did
anything right so you don't even try. All you have left is your feeble
attempt to try to distract. Lost two wars started with lies. Admitted
he gave up looking for Bin Laden while Obama got him. Brought America
into the biggest recession sine the great depression and lost millions
of jobs. Obama has created millions. Bush got more Americans killed
over his lies than all terrorists combined.

Man you are one screwball Gumby. Poor little man.

Wahahahahaha...............

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 11:25:43 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Allen Drake wrote:

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 19:19:17 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
? wrote:

?
?Allen Drake wrote:
??
?? On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 16:06:04 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
?? ? wrote:
??
?? ?
?? ?Allen Drake wrote:
?? ??
?? ?? I have been a machinist for over 40 years and am still going strong.
?? ?? My post was all about the loss of many of those jobs due to the total
?? ?? failures of the previous administration. So far the only responses I
?? ?? have seen are diversions and denial but facts are facts no matter what
?? ?? happened in the past. The republican administration left this country
?? ?? in the biggest mess since the great depression. No matter how much
?? ?? Clinton lied or anything done by him or anyone the facts will never
?? ?? change.
?? ??
?? ?? It must suck to be a rightWingNut still defending Bush.
?? ?
?? ?
?? ? I'm an independent and I'm not defending anyone, moron.
??
?? You are the moron here and are defending the republicans unless you
?? can be specific about what I have posted it inaccurate.
?
?
? Show us where I supported anyone, loser.

Simply by posting to this thread you show where you stand. You are no
different then Gumby.


I accept your inability to prove your statements. By your own flawed
logic, you are no different than Gunner.

However..I do provide cites G

Gunner

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 19:33:14 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 15:06:52 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 15:48:26 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:


laugh laugh laugh..and with each post you make..you get closer to a mass
grave filled with your fellow mental cases.

Ill kinda miss you. Having you around is like having a retarded chimp on
an organ grinders chain where everyone can laugh at it.

What in the world are you babbling about now? Because I and most of
the rest of the country knows the republicans left this county in the
state it is in

And again he shows his mental illness and "megalomania".

VBG

Typical Leftwinger...full of **** and sick in the head.

Say...hows those approval polls for the Obamassiah doing these days?

Laugh laugh laugh!!!

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch


Yes Gumby, we all know how loony you are. Not many think the
republicans were not to blame. How does it feel to be such a nut case?

"I believe that being despised by the despicable
is as good as being admired by the admirable."

From long experience myself, I can only say, "You betcha."

Laugh laugh laugh!!

Gunner

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 19:39:02 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 13:55:54 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 03:50:34 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 18:52:02 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 19:05:54 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 12:58:58 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 04:06:10 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 21:40:29 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 17:01:44 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 13:14:58 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 08:11:27 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Oct 2011 23:00:44 +1100, "Grumpy"
wrote:

Did it ever occur to anyone on this newsgroup that there are a LOT of places
outside of the US that aregood places to live?
Places where you don't have crackheads and gangs hanging on every corner.
The place is stuffed. get out of it and join the real world. Half your
population dont vote and you get the politicians you deserve as a result. Go
to the polls and turf them out if you don't like them. Don't waste bandwidth
whining about it on a newsgroup dedicated to metalworking,


You will never learn of nice places around the world. The USA is all
about hate and lies that will always make it seem like the world
revolves around America and every place else is meaningless. Americans
are the greatest race of people on the planet. The right is in the
process of saving the universe from the left wing socialist commie pot
smoking baby killing Godless outcasts and Bush was the greatest leader
the world has ever known. I wonder who can ever fill his shoes. Maybe
Cain or Perry or Romney or Palin or any of the rest of those clueless
wing nuts can manage to funnel the rest of the money to the top 2%.

So you you are in a park someplace protesting and ****ting in a plastic
bag?

Sucks to be you. Gonna be hanging around when the snow falls?

Laugh laugh laugh!!

This is gonna be fun to watch when winter sets in....VBG

Gunner

There you go again with more lies. This is all you tards know how to
do. Posting with your head up your ass again hey Gummer?

What lies? Hummmm? Gonna freeze your ass off squatting on a porta
pottie in DC or some other place?

Laugh laugh laugh..you will be back in your mommas basement the first
time the frost sets in.

****ing wienie Leftwingers....dumb as dirt and have zero staying power
if they are uncomfortable.

Gunner

As usual you have no idea what you are talking about but keep trying.
Running and trying to divert from the truth that you wingers ran this
county into the ditch is all you have.

Must suck to be as clueless as you.

Must suck to be a lying Leftwinger as you have shown yourself to be.

Biased, bigoted, racist, bull****er and buffoon..you cover them all.

VBG

Gunner


All you have are lies. I do love it when you melt down Gumby. I have
posted nothing that show I am any of the above. What did I post that
says I am racist? You have nothing little man. Must suck to be mad at
the world Gumby.

EVERY post you make is filled with lies. Including this one. Making an
observation of your mental illness and hate, buffoonery and bias and
bigoty is hardly a "meltdown" you poor sorry bit of dreck.

When the Cull arrives..the world will be a far better, cleaner place
with you dead.


You are the only one melting down loon. You get more sickly with
every post.

Shrug..and you get closer to the bottom of a mass grave with each
passing day.

VBG
Works for me.

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch

Gumby nothing seems to work for you. No matter how hard you try you
can't worm out and convince anyone the previous administration did
anything right so you don't even try. All you have left is your feeble
attempt to try to distract. Lost two wars started with lies. Admitted
he gave up looking for Bin Laden while Obama got him. Brought America
into the biggest recession sine the great depression and lost millions
of jobs. Obama has created millions. Bush got more Americans killed
over his lies than all terrorists combined.

Man you are one screwball Gumby. Poor little man.

Wahahahahaha...............

"I believe that being despised by the despicable
is as good as being admired by the admirable."

From long experience myself, I can only say, "You betcha."


Laugh laugh laugh!!!

Gunner

On Oct 18, 7:39*pm, Allen Drake wrote:
lost millions
of jobs. Obama has created millions.


If Obama has created millions of jobs, explain how the unemployment is
close to 10%. As far as I know, Obama has at best kept a lot of
government jobs going for another year, but those jobs will be lost
eventually. You are welcome to cite studies that prove Obama has
created jobs.


Dan

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 11:25:43 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Allen Drake wrote:

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 19:19:17 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
? wrote:

?
?Allen Drake wrote:
??
?? On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 16:06:04 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
?? ? wrote:
??
?? ?
?? ?Allen Drake wrote:
?? ??
?? ?? I have been a machinist for over 40 years and am still going strong.
?? ?? My post was all about the loss of many of those jobs due to the total
?? ?? failures of the previous administration. So far the only responses I
?? ?? have seen are diversions and denial but facts are facts no matter what
?? ?? happened in the past. The republican administration left this country
?? ?? in the biggest mess since the great depression. No matter how much
?? ?? Clinton lied or anything done by him or anyone the facts will never
?? ?? change.
?? ??
?? ?? It must suck to be a rightWingNut still defending Bush.
?? ?
?? ?
?? ? I'm an independent and I'm not defending anyone, moron.
??
?? You are the moron here and are defending the republicans unless you
?? can be specific about what I have posted it inaccurate.
?
?
? Show us where I supported anyone, loser.

Simply by posting to this thread you show where you stand. You are no
different then Gumby.


I accept your inability to prove your statements. By your own flawed
logic, you are no different than Gunner.

However..I do provide cites G


All his cites come from the voices in his head. I wonder if his
mother had any kids that weren't born brain dead?


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Allen Drake wrote:

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 16:26:23 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Allen Drake wrote:

Because I and most of the rest of the country knows the republicans
left this county in the state it is in


Which county?

The same country that Bush and the republicans lead into a ditch. The
entire world knows what happened and who was to blame.


Sigh. You can't even read what you post.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:41:23 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 18, 7:39*pm, Allen Drake wrote:
lost millions
of jobs. Obama has created millions.


If Obama has created millions of jobs, explain how the unemployment is
close to 10%. As far as I know, Obama has at best kept a lot of
government jobs going for another year, but those jobs will be lost
eventually. You are welcome to cite studies that prove Obama has
created jobs.


Dan

If you really paid attention you would already know. There is loife
without FOX.


According to Florida congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, President
Obama is on pace to create more jobs in 2010 than President Bush did
in his eight years of office.


"A republican President has never , never left the office with a
blanced Budget or a surplus.... Never "

Allen Drake wrote:

What in the world are you babbling about now? Because I and most of
the rest of the country knows the republicans left this county in the
state it is in I am..........." with each post you make..you get
closer to a mass grave filled with your fellow mental cases."


I wouldn't say exactly that. The budget deficit in 2007 was $110 billion.
The budget deficit for the year ending Sept 30th was $1.4 trillion. For the
entire eight years of the Bush administration, the combined budget deficits
were about $800 billion. Obama has quadrupled that amount in only three
years.

Assuming Obama inherited a mess, he's made it worse. Far worse. Almost
impossibly worse.

HeyBub wrote:


I wouldn't say exactly that. The budget deficit in 2007 was $110 billion.
The budget deficit for the year ending Sept 30th was $1.4 trillion. For the
entire eight years of the Bush administration, the combined budget deficits
were about $800 billion. Obama has quadrupled that amount in only three
years.

Assuming Obama inherited a mess, he's made it worse. Far worse. Almost
impossibly worse.

You are assuming the federal budget deficit is a problem.

The federal budget is not causing the economic slow down.
The fedreal budget deficit is the only thing preventing
a full scale depression bigger than the depresion of the 30's.

It is private sector mismanagement of credit and debt
that has been pushing the US into a depression.
The federal deficit is the only thing preventing the depression
from happening.

This is not theory. This is what you will see as fact when
the effort is made to reduce the deficit. Economic collapse.

The fact that 15% of workers cannot find suitable employment tells
you the federal deficit is now way too small.

When Congress makes the deficit smaller then millions more in the US
will become out of work.
If Congress tries to balance the budget there may be
50% of the workforce unemployed.

On Oct 19, 3:55*am, Allen Drake wrote:

*If you really paid attention you would already know. There is loife
without FOX.

According to Florida congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, President
Obama is on pace to create more jobs in 2010 than President Bush did
in his eight years of office.

"A republican President has never , never left the office with a
blanced Budget or a surplus.... Never "

I do not watch Fox. And do not pay any attention to economic news on
TV. Some of the newpapers are much better for in depth stories on the
economy.

As far as Debbie Schultz..........I hardly consider the Chair of the
Democratic National Committee to be a balanced source of news. Do you
really think I am stupid enough to believe any congress person is an
unbiased source of economic news?


Dan

Allen Drake wrote:


"A republican President has never , never left the office with a
blanced Budget or a surplus.... Never "


In the red and black terms of fiscal policy, it was a
dramatic occasion. After a paring arid scraping, President
Eisenhower had almost in hand, to present to the 86th
Congress next month, a balanced budget with about $77
billion incoming against about $77 billion outgoing.

Read mo
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...#ixzz1bF6d7CID




--


Regards,
Steve Saling
aka The Garlic Dude ©
Gilroy, CA
The Garlic Capital of The World

http://tinyurl.com/2avg58

Garlicdude wrote:

Allen Drake wrote:


"A republican President has never , never left the office with a
blanced Budget or a surplus.... Never "


In the red and black terms of fiscal policy, it was a
dramatic occasion. After a paring arid scraping, President
Eisenhower had almost in hand, to present to the 86th
Congress next month, a balanced budget with about $77
billion incoming against about $77 billion outgoing.

That effort to balance the budget didn't last long.

It created a recession and in response to the recession the
last two years of the Eisenhower administration the federal
govt spent 20% more than it collected in revenues.

Federal debt from 1954-1961
http://tinyurl.com/3nfas8o

" wrote:

On Oct 19, 3:55 am, Allen Drake wrote:

If you really paid attention you would already know. There is loife
without FOX.

According to Florida congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, President
Obama is on pace to create more jobs in 2010 than President Bush did
in his eight years of office.

"A republican President has never , never left the office with a
blanced Budget or a surplus.... Never "

I do not watch Fox. And do not pay any attention to economic news on
TV. Some of the newpapers are much better for in depth stories on the
economy.

As far as Debbie Schultz..........I hardly consider the Chair of the
Democratic National Committee to be a balanced source of news. Do you
really think I am stupid enough to believe any congress person is an
unbiased source of economic news?


2010 is so last year...


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

jim wrote:

Garlicdude wrote:
Allen Drake wrote:

"A republican President has never , never left the office with a
blanced Budget or a surplus.... Never "

In the red and black terms of fiscal policy, it was a
dramatic occasion. After a paring arid scraping, President
Eisenhower had almost in hand, to present to the 86th
Congress next month, a balanced budget with about $77
billion incoming against about $77 billion outgoing.

That effort to balance the budget didn't last long.

It created a recession and in response to the recession the
last two years of the Eisenhower administration the federal
govt spent 20% more than it collected in revenues.

Federal debt from 1954-1961
http://tinyurl.com/3nfas8o


True enough, I was 10 or so when that recession started. It
was when Detroit started making smaller cars, Valiants,
Darts, Falcons, Corvair all started around that time.

--


Regards,
Steve Saling
aka The Garlic Dude ©
Gilroy, CA
The Garlic Capital of The World

http://tinyurl.com/2avg58

jim" "sjedgingN0Sp wrote:
HeyBub wrote:


I wouldn't say exactly that. The budget deficit in 2007 was $110
billion. The budget deficit for the year ending Sept 30th was $1.4
trillion. For the entire eight years of the Bush administration, the
combined budget deficits were about $800 billion. Obama has
quadrupled that amount in only three years.

Assuming Obama inherited a mess, he's made it worse. Far worse.
Almost impossibly worse.

You are assuming the federal budget deficit is a problem.

The federal budget is not causing the economic slow down.
The fedreal budget deficit is the only thing preventing
a full scale depression bigger than the depresion of the 30's.

It is private sector mismanagement of credit and debt
that has been pushing the US into a depression.
The federal deficit is the only thing preventing the depression
from happening.

This is not theory. This is what you will see as fact when
the effort is made to reduce the deficit. Economic collapse.

The fact that 15% of workers cannot find suitable employment tells
you the federal deficit is now way too small.

When Congress makes the deficit smaller then millions more in the US
will become out of work.

Well, that's the story and the administration is sticking to it.

If Congress tries to balance the budget there may be
50% of the workforce unemployed.

Inasmuch as the federal payroll has increased 40% since 2007, a rise in the
number of drones might not be so bad. It would leave some room for the
worker bees to thrive.

Garlicdude wrote:


True enough, I was 10 or so when that recession started. It
was when Detroit started making smaller cars, Valiants,
Darts, Falcons, Corvair all started around that time.

Yup. Don't forget the Olds F-85. That was a sweet little car.

"Allen Drake" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 06:16:03 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 19, 3:55 am, Allen Drake wrote:

If you really paid attention you would already know. There is loife
without FOX.

According to Florida congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, President
Obama is on pace to create more jobs in 2010 than President Bush did
in his eight years of office.

"A republican President has never , never left the office with a
blanced Budget or a surplus.... Never "

I do not watch Fox. And do not pay any attention to economic news on
TV. Some of the newpapers are much better for in depth stories on the
economy.

As far as Debbie Schultz..........I hardly consider the Chair of the
Democratic National Committee to be a balanced source of news. Do you
really think I am stupid enough to believe any congress person is an
unbiased source of economic news?


Dan
I expect you will believe whatever you want to believe plain and
simple. If you blame the current administration for where the US is
now and not the ones that really are to blame then that has because
you are simply a fool.

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/pdf/hist.pdf

"The traditional pattern of running large

deficits only in times of war or economic

downturns was broken during much of the

1980s. In 1982, large permanent tax cuts

were enacted. Moreover, these were accompanied

by substantial increases in defense

spending. Although reductions

were made

to nondefense spending, they were not of

sufficient size to offset the impact on the

deficit. As a result, deficits averaging $206

billion were incurred between 1983 and

1992. These unprecedented peacetime deficits

increased debt held by the public from

$789 billion in 1981 to $3.0 trillion (48.1

percent of GDP) in 1992.

After peaking at $290 billion in 1992,

deficits declined each year, dropping to a

level of $22 billion in 1997. In 1998, the

Nation recorded its first budget surplus

($69.3 billion) since 1969. As a percent of

GDP, the budget bottom line went from a

deficit of 4.7 percent in 1992 to a surplus

of 0.8 percent in 1998, increasing to a 2.4

percent surplus in 2000."

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...

Inasmuch as the federal payroll has increased 40% since 2007,

Total number of employees on the federal payroll is pretty much unchanged :

http://www.bls.gov/webapps/legacy/cesbtab1.htm

Jan 2007 =2729,000

Sep 2011=2820,000

So I assume you are claiming that average earnings by Federal employees has
increased by 40% when from what I gather, for the past several years wages
have increased by at most a few percent and more recently they have been
frozen altogether.

Put another way, where did you get your 40% figure ?

(Cites please)...

SEE:

http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/94-971_20100120.pdf

2007= 4.5%
2008= 2.3%
2009= 0.9%
2010= 3.4%
2011= not shown, pretty sure they were frozen.


a rise in the number of drones might not be so bad. It would leave some
room for the worker bees to thrive.

A decline in the amount of unsubstantiated information that's constantly
parroted about the economic situation would be better IMO

Existential Angst wrote:

http://money.msn.com/saving-money/10...5877&GT1=33026

The first listing, Sandusky, Ohio, gives the articles sources.

I'm surprised no Texas cities were listed. We have no State income tax,
and median home prices in HOU are about $120k.

--

"I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality.
If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us,
We're going to kill you first, period."

October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report)

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 08:11:20 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 03:48:18 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 18:51:59 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 19:03:24 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Oct 2011 16:06:04 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Allen Drake wrote:

I have been a machinist for over 40 years and am still going strong.
My post was all about the loss of many of those jobs due to the total
failures of the previous administration. So far the only responses I
have seen are diversions and denial but facts are facts no matter what
happened in the past. The republican administration left this country
in the biggest mess since the great depression. No matter how much
Clinton lied or anything done by him or anyone the facts will never
change.

It must suck to be a rightWingNut still defending Bush.


I'm an independent and I'm not defending anyone, moron.


You are the moron here and are defending the republicans unless you
can be specific about what I have posted it inaccurate.

Virtually everything you have posted has been lies. Not just
inaccuracies..but outright lies.

And I keep exposing them as you make them. No one here cares that you
are going to be killed in less than a year


Yes, this recession was all caused by Obama and the left. This is
what makes the right so crazed and hateful. This is what has hurt
America. You and your kind.

Actually..it was you and YOUR kind that quadrupled the national debt and
put our unemployment rate at 27% (U3 + U6)

Way to go dud!!

The Great Cull will sort you out nicely though.

VBG

Gunner

No fool. It was Obama that killed Bin Laden and now he got Qadaffi
along with many others that Bush let go free. Obama is saving the
world from your kind of war criminals that will destroy America from
within.

You right wing loons will do anything to gain power.

You and your kind are insane.

On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 19:25:09 -0700, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


"Allen Drake" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 06:16:03 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 19, 3:55 am, Allen Drake wrote:

If you really paid attention you would already know. There is loife
without FOX.

According to Florida congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, President
Obama is on pace to create more jobs in 2010 than President Bush did
in his eight years of office.

"A republican President has never , never left the office with a
blanced Budget or a surplus.... Never "

I do not watch Fox. And do not pay any attention to economic news on
TV. Some of the newpapers are much better for in depth stories on the
economy.

As far as Debbie Schultz..........I hardly consider the Chair of the
Democratic National Committee to be a balanced source of news. Do you
really think I am stupid enough to believe any congress person is an
unbiased source of economic news?


Dan
I expect you will believe whatever you want to believe plain and
simple. If you blame the current administration for where the US is
now and not the ones that really are to blame then that has because
you are simply a fool.

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/pdf/hist.pdf

"The traditional pattern of running large

deficits only in times of war or economic

downturns was broken during much of the

1980s. In 1982, large permanent tax cuts

were enacted. Moreover, these were accompanied

by substantial increases in defense

spending. Although reductions

were made

to nondefense spending, they were not of

sufficient size to offset the impact on the

deficit. As a result, deficits averaging $206

billion were incurred between 1983 and

1992. These unprecedented peacetime deficits

increased debt held by the public from

$789 billion in 1981 to $3.0 trillion (48.1

Reagan.


percent of GDP) in 1992.

After peaking at $290 billion in 1992,

deficits declined each year, dropping to a

level of $22 billion in 1997. In 1998, the

Nation recorded its first budget surplus

($69.3 billion) since 1969. As a percent of

GDP, the budget bottom line went from a

deficit of 4.7 percent in 1992 to a surplus


Clinton

of 0.8 percent in 1998, increasing to a 2.4

percent surplus in 2000."



Thank you.

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:41:23 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 18, 7:39*pm, Allen Drake wrote:
lost millions
of jobs. Obama has created millions.


If Obama has created millions of jobs, explain how the unemployment is
close to 10%. As far as I know, Obama has at best kept a lot of
government jobs going for another year, but those jobs will be lost
eventually. You are welcome to cite studies that prove Obama has
created jobs.


Dan

Actually...unemployment is actually up around 24-27%

The 9.x% number is simply those that are Currently on unemployment
insurance. This does NOT count those that have exhaused their 99 weeks,
or are working less than 20 hours a week

The U3 vrs U6 numbers.

So the Obamassiah has done exactly dick with the economy..and in
fact...has caused at least 10% higher unemployment..and more than
likely...17% or more unemployment.

So Mr Drake is lying through his teeth. But then...he IS a
leftwinger..so its to be expected.

Gunner

"Allen Drake" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 19:25:09 -0700, "PrecisionmachinisT"
wrote:


"Allen Drake" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 06:16:03 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 19, 3:55 am, Allen Drake wrote:

If you really paid attention you would already know. There is loife
without FOX.

According to Florida congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, President
Obama is on pace to create more jobs in 2010 than President Bush did
in his eight years of office.

"A republican President has never , never left the office with a
blanced Budget or a surplus.... Never "

I do not watch Fox. And do not pay any attention to economic news on
TV. Some of the newpapers are much better for in depth stories on the
economy.

As far as Debbie Schultz..........I hardly consider the Chair of the
Democratic National Committee to be a balanced source of news. Do you
really think I am stupid enough to believe any congress person is an
unbiased source of economic news?


Dan
I expect you will believe whatever you want to believe plain and
simple. If you blame the current administration for where the US is
now and not the ones that really are to blame then that has because
you are simply a fool.

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy11/pdf/hist.pdf

"The traditional pattern of running large

deficits only in times of war or economic

downturns was broken during much of the

1980s. In 1982, large permanent tax cuts

were enacted. Moreover, these were accompanied

by substantial increases in defense

spending. Although reductions

were made

to nondefense spending, they were not of

sufficient size to offset the impact on the

deficit. As a result, deficits averaging $206

billion were incurred between 1983 and

1992. These unprecedented peacetime deficits

increased debt held by the public from

$789 billion in 1981 to $3.0 trillion (48.1

Reagan.


percent of GDP) in 1992.

After peaking at $290 billion in 1992,

deficits declined each year, dropping to a

level of $22 billion in 1997. In 1998, the

Nation recorded its first budget surplus

($69.3 billion) since 1969. As a percent of

GDP, the budget bottom line went from a

deficit of 4.7 percent in 1992 to a surplus


Clinton

of 0.8 percent in 1998, increasing to a 2.4

percent surplus in 2000."



Thank you.

Your welcome

I am creating jobs today, thanks to President Obama.

I have two unemployed guys working for me today, cleaning stuff for
sale.

i

On 2011-10-22, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:41:23 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 18, 7:39?pm, Allen Drake wrote:
lost millions
of jobs. Obama has created millions.


If Obama has created millions of jobs, explain how the unemployment is
close to 10%. As far as I know, Obama has at best kept a lot of
government jobs going for another year, but those jobs will be lost
eventually. You are welcome to cite studies that prove Obama has
created jobs.


Dan

Actually...unemployment is actually up around 24-27%

The 9.x% number is simply those that are Currently on unemployment
insurance. This does NOT count those that have exhaused their 99 weeks,
or are working less than 20 hours a week

The U3 vrs U6 numbers.

So the Obamassiah has done exactly dick with the economy..and in
fact...has caused at least 10% higher unemployment..and more than
likely...17% or more unemployment.

So Mr Drake is lying through his teeth. But then...he IS a
leftwinger..so its to be expected.

Gunner

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:41:23 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 18, 7:39 pm, Allen Drake wrote:
lost millions
of jobs. Obama has created millions.


If Obama has created millions of jobs, explain how the unemployment is
close to 10%. As far as I know, Obama has at best kept a lot of
government jobs going for another year, but those jobs will be lost
eventually. You are welcome to cite studies that prove Obama has
created jobs.


Dan

================================================== ======================

Actually...unemployment is actually up around 24-27%

The 9.x% number is simply those that are Currently on unemployment
insurance.

================================================== ======================

[reply]

sigh This must be the fourth time I've had to correct you on this. U3
includes everyone who has been unemployed for 15 weeks or longer, INCLUDING
those who have run out their unemployment insurance but are still looking
for jobs.

================================================== ======================

This does NOT count those that have exhaused their 99 weeks,
or are working less than 20 hours a week

================================================== ======================
[reply]

Yes, it does include those who have exhausted their 99 weeks. Whether those
who are working less than 20 hours/week are included depends on whether
they're INTENTIONALLY doing so, or if they're looking for a full-time job
while working part-time.

================================================== ======================

The U3 vrs U6 numbers.

So the Obamassiah has done exactly dick with the economy..and in
fact...has caused at least 10% higher unemployment..and more than
likely...17% or more unemployment.

So Mr Drake is lying through his teeth. But then...he IS a
leftwinger..so its to be expected.

Gunner

================================================== ======================

[reply]

As usual, you don't know what you're talking about.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 07:52:46 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:41:23 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 18, 7:39*pm, Allen Drake wrote:
lost millions
of jobs. Obama has created millions.


If Obama has created millions of jobs, explain how the unemployment is
close to 10%. As far as I know, Obama has at best kept a lot of
government jobs going for another year, but those jobs will be lost
eventually. You are welcome to cite studies that prove Obama has
created jobs.


Dan

Actually...unemployment is actually up around 24-27%

The 9.x% number is simply those that are Currently on unemployment
insurance. This does NOT count those that have exhaused their 99 weeks,
or are working less than 20 hours a week

The U3 vrs U6 numbers.

So the Obamassiah has done exactly dick with the economy..and in
fact...has caused at least 10% higher unemployment..and more than
likely...17% or more unemployment.

So Mr Drake is lying through his teeth. But then...he IS a
leftwinger..so its to be expected.

Gunner
The continued dive in the economy is simply fallout from the failure
of the previous administration. This is why the right is not serious
about winning the WH in 2012 and why they offered up who they did to
run against Obama in the first place. Any Dem could have beaten any of
your heroes on the right. Just look at who you nut jobs are putting up
for sacrifice once again. You are nothing but a joke from start to
finish Gumby. You have nothing and never did loser.

Must suck to be such a moron like you Gumby.

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 08:51:38 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:


GDP, the budget bottom line went from a

deficit of 4.7 percent in 1992 to a surplus


Clinton

There was NO surplus under Clinton.

Sadly true.

There was a Projected surplus..but when the dot com implosion hit...it
vanished.

Now he did have a Smaller debt..but it was still a debt.

It should also be noted..he had a Republican Congress to help.

Gunner

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 08:21:10 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:


Actually..it was you and YOUR kind that quadrupled the national debt and
put our unemployment rate at 27% (U3 + U6)

Way to go dud!!

The Great Cull will sort you out nicely though.

VBG

Gunner

No fool. It was Obama that killed Bin Laden and now he got Qadaffi
along with many others that Bush let go free. Obama is saving the
world from your kind of war criminals that will destroy America from
within.

Really? So thats why we dont see photos of the shooters, because he was
getting trigger time?

And Qadaffi was executed by his captors after he was wounded by shrap
and laying there helpless.

Say..it wasnt Obama who pulled off Qads shoes and beat his corpse with
them..was it?

Given that the military is 80+ percent Conservative...are you claiming
that the Obamassiah is actually a Conservative the moment he dresses for
battle?

Wow dude...some heavy ****!

You right wing loons will do anything to gain power.

You and your kind are insane.

Your posts simply prove beyond any proof you are a fat Napolean
declaring the rest of the world...mad.

Laugh laugh laugh!!!

Gunner

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 10:21:51 -0500, Ignoramus10872
wrote:

I am creating jobs today, thanks to President Obama.

I have two unemployed guys working for me today, cleaning stuff for
sale.

So they are part of the U6 numbers. Less than 20 hrs a week.

And they were hired as a result of Obamas (and Democrats) destruction of
American Manufacturing.

Would that be a fair statement?

Gunner


i

On 2011-10-22, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:41:23 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 18, 7:39?pm, Allen Drake wrote:
lost millions
of jobs. Obama has created millions.


If Obama has created millions of jobs, explain how the unemployment is
close to 10%. As far as I know, Obama has at best kept a lot of
government jobs going for another year, but those jobs will be lost
eventually. You are welcome to cite studies that prove Obama has
created jobs.


Dan

Actually...unemployment is actually up around 24-27%

The 9.x% number is simply those that are Currently on unemployment
insurance. This does NOT count those that have exhaused their 99 weeks,
or are working less than 20 hours a week

The U3 vrs U6 numbers.

So the Obamassiah has done exactly dick with the economy..and in
fact...has caused at least 10% higher unemployment..and more than
likely...17% or more unemployment.

So Mr Drake is lying through his teeth. But then...he IS a
leftwinger..so its to be expected.

Gunner

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 11:50:58 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

The continued dive in the economy is simply fallout from the failure
of the previous administration. This is why the right is not serious
about winning the WH in 2012 and why they offered up who they did to
run against Obama in the first place. Any Dem could have beaten any of
your heroes on the right. Just look at who you nut jobs are putting up
for sacrifice once again. You are nothing but a joke from start to
finish Gumby. You have nothing and never did loser.

Must suck to be such a moron like you Gumby.

LAUGH LAUGH LAUGH!!! Oh...like the LAST Great Depression???

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla...sion-5409.aspx


FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists
calculate
By Meg Sullivan August 10, 2004
Two UCLA economists say they have figured out why the Great Depression
dragged on for almost 15 years, and they blame a suspect previously
thought to be beyond reproach: President Franklin D. Roosevelt.

After scrutinizing Roosevelt's record for four years, Harold L. Cole and
Lee E. Ohanian conclude in a new study that New Deal policies signed
into law 71 years ago thwarted economic recovery for seven long years.

"Why the Great Depression lasted so long has always been a great
mystery, and because we never really knew the reason, we have always
worried whether we would have another 10- to 15-year economic slump,"
said Ohanian, vice chair of UCLA's Department of Economics. "We found
that a relapse isn't likely unless lawmakers gum up a recovery with
ill-conceived stimulus policies."

In an article in the August issue of the Journal of Political Economy,
Ohanian and Cole blame specific anti-competition and pro-labor measures
that Roosevelt promoted and signed into law June 16, 1933.

"President Roosevelt believed that excessive competition was responsible
for the Depression by reducing prices and wages, and by extension
reducing employment and demand for goods and services," said Cole, also
a UCLA professor of economics. "So he came up with a recovery package
that would be unimaginable today, allowing businesses in every industry
to collude without the threat of antitrust prosecution and workers to
demand salaries about 25 percent above where they ought to have been,
given market forces. The economy was poised for a beautiful recovery,
but that recovery was stalled by these misguided policies."

Using data collected in 1929 by the Conference Board and the Bureau of
Labor Statistics, Cole and Ohanian were able to establish average wages
and prices across a range of industries just prior to the Depression. By
adjusting for annual increases in productivity, they were able to use
the 1929 benchmark to figure out what prices and wages would have been
during every year of the Depression had Roosevelt's policies not gone
into effect. They then compared those figures with actual prices and
wages as reflected in the Conference Board data.

In the three years following the implementation of Roosevelt's policies,
wages in 11 key industries averaged 25 percent higher than they
otherwise would have done, the economists calculate. But unemployment
was also 25 percent higher than it should have been, given gains in
productivity.

Meanwhile, prices across 19 industries averaged 23 percent above where
they should have been, given the state of the economy. With goods and
services that much harder for consumers to afford, demand stalled and
the gross national product floundered at 27 percent below where it
otherwise might have been.

"High wages and high prices in an economic slump run contrary to
everything we know about market forces in economic downturns," Ohanian
said. "As we've seen in the past several years, salaries and prices fall
when unemployment is high. By artificially inflating both, the New Deal
policies short-circuited the market's self-correcting forces."

The policies were contained in the National Industrial Recovery Act
(NIRA), which exempted industries from antitrust prosecution if they
agreed to enter into collective bargaining agreements that significantly
raised wages. Because protection from antitrust prosecution all but
ensured higher prices for goods and services, a wide range of industries
took the bait, Cole and Ohanian found. By 1934 more than 500 industries,
which accounted for nearly 80 percent of private, non-agricultural
employment, had entered into the collective bargaining agreements called
for under NIRA.

Cole and Ohanian calculate that NIRA and its aftermath account for 60
percent of the weak recovery. Without the policies, they contend that
the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they
believe the slump actually ended: 1943.

Roosevelt's role in lifting the nation out of the Great Depression has
been so revered that Time magazine readers cited it in 1999 when naming
him the 20th century's second-most influential figure.

"This is exciting and valuable research," said Robert E. Lucas Jr., the
1995 Nobel Laureate in economics, and the John Dewey Distinguished
Service Professor of Economics at the University of Chicago. "The
prevention and cure of depressions is a central mission of
macroeconomics, and if we can't understand what happened in the 1930s,
how can we be sure it won't happen again?"

NIRA's role in prolonging the Depression has not been more closely
scrutinized because the Supreme Court declared the act unconstitutional
within two years of its passage.

"Historians have assumed that the policies didn't have an impact because
they were too short-lived, but the proof is in the pudding," Ohanian
said. "We show that they really did artificially inflate wages and
prices."

Even after being deemed unconstitutional, Roosevelt's anti-competition
policies persisted — albeit under a different guise, the scholars found.
Ohanian and Cole painstakingly documented the extent to which the
Roosevelt administration looked the other way as industries once
protected by NIRA continued to engage in price-fixing practices for four
more years.

The number of antitrust cases brought by the Department of Justice fell
from an average of 12.5 cases per year during the 1920s to an average of
6.5 cases per year from 1935 to 1938, the scholars found. Collusion had
become so widespread that one Department of Interior official complained
of receiving identical bids from a protected industry (steel) on 257
different occasions between mid-1935 and mid-1936. The bids were not
only identical but also 50 percent higher than foreign steel prices.
Without competition, wholesale prices remained inflated, averaging 14
percent higher than they would have been without the troublesome
practices, the UCLA economists calculate.

NIRA's labor provisions, meanwhile, were strengthened in the National
Relations Act, signed into law in 1935. As union membership doubled, so
did labor's bargaining power, rising from 14 million strike days in 1936
to about 28 million in 1937. By 1939 wages in protected industries
remained 24 percent to 33 percent above where they should have been,
based on 1929 figures, Cole and Ohanian calculate. Unemployment
persisted. By 1939 the U.S. unemployment rate was 17.2 percent, down
somewhat from its 1933 peak of 24.9 percent but still remarkably high.
By comparison, in May 2003, the unemployment rate of 6.1 percent was the
highest in nine years.

Recovery came only after the Department of Justice dramatically stepped
up enforcement of antitrust cases nearly four-fold and organized labor
suffered a string of setbacks, the economists found.

"The fact that the Depression dragged on for years convinced generations
of economists and policy-makers that capitalism could not be trusted to
recover from depressions and that significant government intervention
was required to achieve good outcomes," Cole said. "Ironically, our work
shows that the recovery would have been very rapid had the government
not intervened."


It should be noted..that UCLA...University of California Los Angeles..is
hardly a Rightwing think thank...but a Leftwing one....


Gunner

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 08:51:38 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:


GDP, the budget bottom line went from a

deficit of 4.7 percent in 1992 to a surplus


Clinton

There was NO surplus under Clinton.

Sadly true.
There was, but it was largely accounting. The extra money brought in by
the Social Security "Surplus" was counted as revenue. This was despite
the fact that the only place, by law, it could go was into Treasury
Securities. So, the current accounts surplus was largely related to
taking a long-term liability (those SS-surplus Treasuries) and counting
it as a short-term asset. When you back those out, you are again in
deficit.
In fairness to Mr. C, this wasn't anything he cooked up, that
bookkeeping system had been the same since the 80s. Also, the surplus
topped out and was back into deficit even with the creative bookkeeping
by before GW's first budget.

--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
acquired carpal tunnel syndrome.-Howard Berkowitz

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 09:10:40 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 08:21:10 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:


Actually..it was you and YOUR kind that quadrupled the national debt and
put our unemployment rate at 27% (U3 + U6)

Way to go dud!!

The Great Cull will sort you out nicely though.

VBG

Gunner

No fool. It was Obama that killed Bin Laden and now he got Qadaffi
along with many others that Bush let go free. Obama is saving the
world from your kind of war criminals that will destroy America from
within.

Really? So thats why we dont see photos of the shooters, because he was
getting trigger time?

And Qadaffi was executed by his captors after he was wounded by shrap
and laying there helpless.

Say..it wasnt Obama who pulled off Qads shoes and beat his corpse with
them..was it?

Given that the military is 80+ percent Conservative...are you claiming
that the Obamassiah is actually a Conservative the moment he dresses for
battle?

Wow dude...some heavy ****!

You right wing loons will do anything to gain power.

You and your kind are insane.

Your posts simply prove beyond any proof you are a fat Napolean
declaring the rest of the world...mad.

Laugh laugh laugh!!!

Gunner

Compared to Bush the war lying war criminal Obama is a hero. You
tards had your chance to shine and you tuned it into a **** storm.
Bush is scared to show his chimpafide face. Most likely drunk on his
ass as usual or snorting coke. The world knows what a loser you
righttards are. You have nothing again as usual Gumby but we all know
that also.

Must really suck to be one of the last Bush worshipers.

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 09:10:39 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 08:51:38 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:


GDP, the budget bottom line went from a

deficit of 4.7 percent in 1992 to a surplus


Clinton

There was NO surplus under Clinton.

Sadly true.

There was a Projected surplus..but when the dot com implosion hit...it
vanished.

Now he did have a Smaller debt..but it was still a debt.

It should also be noted..he had a Republican Congress to help.

Gunner

Everyone knows Clinton did what no republican could ever do. Bush
squandered everything and turned the economy upside down. Clinton
created jobs and Bush lost everything. You can fool yourself but you
will never be able to change the facts. Clinton is still the
"President of the World" and Bush will always be a hated war criminal.

Must really suck to be you Gumby.

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 09:10:40 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 10:21:51 -0500, Ignoramus10872
wrote:

I am creating jobs today, thanks to President Obama.

I have two unemployed guys working for me today, cleaning stuff for
sale.

So they are part of the U6 numbers. Less than 20 hrs a week.

And they were hired as a result of Obamas (and Democrats) destruction of
American Manufacturing.

Would that be a fair statement?

Gunner


i

On 2011-10-22, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 18:41:23 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Oct 18, 7:39?pm, Allen Drake wrote:
lost millions
of jobs. Obama has created millions.


If Obama has created millions of jobs, explain how the unemployment is
close to 10%. As far as I know, Obama has at best kept a lot of
government jobs going for another year, but those jobs will be lost
eventually. You are welcome to cite studies that prove Obama has
created jobs.


Dan

Actually...unemployment is actually up around 24-27%

The 9.x% number is simply those that are Currently on unemployment
insurance. This does NOT count those that have exhaused their 99 weeks,
or are working less than 20 hours a week

The U3 vrs U6 numbers.

So the Obamassiah has done exactly dick with the economy..and in
fact...has caused at least 10% higher unemployment..and more than
likely...17% or more unemployment.

So Mr Drake is lying through his teeth. But then...he IS a
leftwinger..so its to be expected.

Gunner

Talk is cheap like you but you have nothing to backup your lies like
every other winger. No facts. NOTHING.

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 09:11:49 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 22 Oct 2011 11:50:58 -0400, Allen Drake
wrote:

The continued dive in the economy is simply fallout from the failure
of the previous administration. This is why the right is not serious
about winning the WH in 2012 and why they offered up who they did to
run against Obama in the first place. Any Dem could have beaten any of
your heroes on the right. Just look at who you nut jobs are putting up
for sacrifice once again. You are nothing but a joke from start to
finish Gumby. You have nothing and never did loser.

Must suck to be such a moron like you Gumby.

LAUGH LAUGH LAUGH!!! Oh...like the LAST Great Depression???

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla...sion-5409.aspx


FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists
calculate
By Meg Sullivan August 10, 2004
Two UCLA economists say they have figured out why the Great Depression
dragged on for almost 15 years, and they blame a suspect previously
thought to be beyond reproach: President Franklin D. Roosevelt.

After scrutinizing Roosevelt's record for four years, Harold L. Cole and
Lee E. Ohanian conclude in a new study that New Deal policies signed
into law 71 years ago thwarted economic recovery for seven long years.

"Why the Great Depression lasted so long has always been a great
mystery, and because we never really knew the reason, we have always
worried whether we would have another 10- to 15-year economic slump,"
said Ohanian, vice chair of UCLA's Department of Economics. "We found
that a relapse isn't likely unless lawmakers gum up a recovery with
ill-conceived stimulus policies."

In an article in the August issue of the Journal of Political Economy,
Ohanian and Cole blame specific anti-competition and pro-labor measures
that Roosevelt promoted and signed into law June 16, 1933.

"President Roosevelt believed that excessive competition was responsible
for the Depression by reducing prices and wages, and by extension
reducing employment and demand for goods and services," said Cole, also
a UCLA professor of economics. "So he came up with a recovery package
that would be unimaginable today, allowing businesses in every industry
to collude without the threat of antitrust prosecution and workers to
demand salaries about 25 percent above where they ought to have been,
given market forces. The economy was poised for a beautiful recovery,
but that recovery was stalled by these misguided policies."

Using data collected in 1929 by the Conference Board and the Bureau of
Labor Statistics, Cole and Ohanian were able to establish average wages
and prices across a range of industries just prior to the Depression. By
adjusting for annual increases in productivity, they were able to use
the 1929 benchmark to figure out what prices and wages would have been
during every year of the Depression had Roosevelt's policies not gone
into effect. They then compared those figures with actual prices and
wages as reflected in the Conference Board data.

In the three years following the implementation of Roosevelt's policies,
wages in 11 key industries averaged 25 percent higher than they
otherwise would have done, the economists calculate. But unemployment
was also 25 percent higher than it should have been, given gains in
productivity.

Meanwhile, prices across 19 industries averaged 23 percent above where
they should have been, given the state of the economy. With goods and
services that much harder for consumers to afford, demand stalled and
the gross national product floundered at 27 percent below where it
otherwise might have been.

"High wages and high prices in an economic slump run contrary to
everything we know about market forces in economic downturns," Ohanian
said. "As we've seen in the past several years, salaries and prices fall
when unemployment is high. By artificially inflating both, the New Deal
policies short-circuited the market's self-correcting forces."

The policies were contained in the National Industrial Recovery Act
(NIRA), which exempted industries from antitrust prosecution if they
agreed to enter into collective bargaining agreements that significantly
raised wages. Because protection from antitrust prosecution all but
ensured higher prices for goods and services, a wide range of industries
took the bait, Cole and Ohanian found. By 1934 more than 500 industries,
which accounted for nearly 80 percent of private, non-agricultural
employment, had entered into the collective bargaining agreements called
for under NIRA.

Cole and Ohanian calculate that NIRA and its aftermath account for 60
percent of the weak recovery. Without the policies, they contend that
the Depression would have ended in 1936 instead of the year when they
believe the slump actually ended: 1943.

Roosevelt's role in lifting the nation out of the Great Depression has
been so revered that Time magazine readers cited it in 1999 when naming
him the 20th century's second-most influential figure.

"This is exciting and valuable research," said Robert E. Lucas Jr., the
1995 Nobel Laureate in economics, and the John Dewey Distinguished
Service Professor of Economics at the University of Chicago. "The
prevention and cure of depressions is a central mission of
macroeconomics, and if we can't understand what happened in the 1930s,
how can we be sure it won't happen again?"

NIRA's role in prolonging the Depression has not been more closely
scrutinized because the Supreme Court declared the act unconstitutional
within two years of its passage.

"Historians have assumed that the policies didn't have an impact because
they were too short-lived, but the proof is in the pudding," Ohanian
said. "We show that they really did artificially inflate wages and
prices."

Even after being deemed unconstitutional, Roosevelt's anti-competition
policies persisted — albeit under a different guise, the scholars found.
Ohanian and Cole painstakingly documented the extent to which the
Roosevelt administration looked the other way as industries once
protected by NIRA continued to engage in price-fixing practices for four
more years.

The number of antitrust cases brought by the Department of Justice fell
from an average of 12.5 cases per year during the 1920s to an average of
6.5 cases per year from 1935 to 1938, the scholars found. Collusion had
become so widespread that one Department of Interior official complained
of receiving identical bids from a protected industry (steel) on 257
different occasions between mid-1935 and mid-1936. The bids were not
only identical but also 50 percent higher than foreign steel prices.
Without competition, wholesale prices remained inflated, averaging 14
percent higher than they would have been without the troublesome
practices, the UCLA economists calculate.

NIRA's labor provisions, meanwhile, were strengthened in the National
Relations Act, signed into law in 1935. As union membership doubled, so
did labor's bargaining power, rising from 14 million strike days in 1936
to about 28 million in 1937. By 1939 wages in protected industries
remained 24 percent to 33 percent above where they should have been,
based on 1929 figures, Cole and Ohanian calculate. Unemployment
persisted. By 1939 the U.S. unemployment rate was 17.2 percent, down
somewhat from its 1933 peak of 24.9 percent but still remarkably high.
By comparison, in May 2003, the unemployment rate of 6.1 percent was the
highest in nine years.

Recovery came only after the Department of Justice dramatically stepped
up enforcement of antitrust cases nearly four-fold and organized labor
suffered a string of setbacks, the economists found.

"The fact that the Depression dragged on for years convinced generations
of economists and policy-makers that capitalism could not be trusted to
recover from depressions and that significant government intervention
was required to achieve good outcomes," Cole said. "Ironically, our work
shows that the recovery would have been very rapid had the government
not intervened."


It should be noted..that UCLA...University of California Los Angeles..is
hardly a Rightwing think thank...but a Leftwing one....


Gunner

So all you can do it ramble on about what happened so far in the past
and say nothing about how the right can change anything. Your empty
noise is noted. Post here and now what Obama did to make anything
worse other then to fight giving more tax breaks to the millionaires.

Crickets.................